Poll

What is your religious position?

gnostic atheist - I know for certain that there are no gods.
157 (16.4%)
gnostic monotheist - I know for certain that only one specific god exists.
94 (9.8%)
gnostic polytheist - I know for certain that there is more than one god.
4 (0.4%)
gnostic pantheist - I know for certain that that everything is god.
12 (1.3%)
gnostic deist - I know for certain that there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.
6 (0.6%)
agnostic atheist - I do not know for certain, but I think there are no gods.
272 (28.4%)
agnostic monotheist - I do not know for certain, but I think only one specific god exists.
21 (2.2%)
agnostic polytheist - I do not know for certain, but I think there is more than one god.
4 (0.4%)
agnostic pantheist - I do not know for certain, but I think that everything is god.
24 (2.5%)
agnostic deist - I do not know for certain, but I think there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.
36 (3.8%)
ignostic atheist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that there are no gods.
87 (9.1%)
ignostic monotheist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that only one specific god exists.
2 (0.2%)
ignostic polytheist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that there is more than one god.
1 (0.1%)
ignostic pantheist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that that everything is god.
10 (1%)
ignostic deist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.
7 (0.7%)
apnostic atheist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess there are no gods.
37 (3.9%)
apnostic monotheist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess only one specific god exists.
1 (0.1%)
apnostic polytheist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess there is more than one god.
0 (0%)
apnostic pantheist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess that everything is god.
7 (0.7%)
apnostic deist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.
7 (0.7%)
Any type of henotheist - There (may be/is only) more than one god, but I think of only one specific god.
6 (0.6%)
I am a god!  [checks self in mirror and grins]
82 (8.6%)
Missionary.
30 (3.1%)
So! Many! Choices! (Karma Sutra)
50 (5.2%)

Total Members Voted: 619

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Offline realdemocracy

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #174 on: March 29, 2009, 03:07:51 AM »
If I understand their notion of it, the creator is Brahma, who created the universe, and exists ubiquitously throughout it.  It is simply the notion that god is omnipresent, kinda like the Christian concept of the holy spirit.

That's not quite correct, RD.  Brahma is the creator, yes, but it is also the fundamental "substance" of which existence itself is composed.  The universe is "made of" Brahma.  It really is pantheism in that sense, but becomes polytheism due to all the lesser gods and spirits they posit in addition.
Apparently, we have both made the common English-language mistake of equating Brahma, the creator god, with Brahman, the fundamental essence of reality.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman

Offline Azdgari

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #175 on: March 29, 2009, 03:12:52 AM »
Damn.  True that.  Really, though, Brahman was what Brahma came from, so Brahman can still be rightly said to be the "creator" in Hinduism. ;)
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Offline realdemocracy

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #176 on: March 29, 2009, 03:30:58 AM »
Damn.  True that.  Really, though, Brahman was what Brahma came from, so Brahman can still be rightly said to be the "creator" in Hinduism. ;)
Yes, and all gods are merely aspects of Brahman, and humanity too are all just aspects of Brahman, making it kinda like Wicca; and realizing that and then actualizing it are the purpose of life...which makes it kinda like Buddhism...and all religions are just different ways of understanding Hinduism, which makes it kinda like Universalism....

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #177 on: March 30, 2009, 02:48:17 AM »
 >:( My religious position is ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN= ORTHY -DOXA means right believe and christian means
Jesus Christ our lord and savior.If your are an Atheist believe in nothing and doing nothing is your choice.
But for thousands of years of man kind until now everything is been build and created on believe.
And of course I believe on the Antichrist we been waiting for his arrival all this time and it is time for him to recruit his army of followers in order to try and destroy God.But I say a handful will save the masses. ;D

All have a happy life

HELLIOS (means =the sun)

Offline Hermes

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #178 on: March 30, 2009, 03:32:54 PM »
>:( My religious position is ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN= ORTHY -DOXA means right believe and christian means
Jesus Christ our lord and savior.If your are an Atheist believe in nothing and doing nothing is your choice.
But for thousands of years of man kind until now everything is been build and created on believe.
And of course I believe on the Antichrist we been waiting for his arrival all this time and it is time for him to recruit his army of followers in order to try and destroy God.But I say a handful will save the masses. ;D

All have a happy life

HELLIOS (means =the sun)

Hellios, if you want to make a new thread on the subject of Orthodox Christianity [Greek or ?], or on end-times prophecy, feel free.

Thanks for voting in this poll.

As for "If your are an Atheist believe in nothing and doing nothing is your choice." that's not what an atheist is.  An atheist lacks theistic belief; belief in one or more deities.  What we do believe, though, tends to vary greatly from person to person, so if you want to know what our beliefs are you need to ask individuals -- just as you would ask individual Christians if you wanted to know what they believe beyond basic ideas about Christ.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #179 on: March 30, 2009, 03:35:42 PM »
Hellios, if you want to make a new thread on the subject of Orthodox Christianity [Greek or ?], or on end-times prophecy, feel free.

Thanks for voting in this poll.

As for "If your are an Atheist believe in nothing and doing nothing is your choice." that's not what an atheist is.  An atheist lacks theistic belief; belief in one or more deities.  What we do believe, though, tends to vary greatly from person to person, so if you want to know what our beliefs are you need to ask individuals -- just as you would ask individual Christians if you wanted to know what they believe beyond basic ideas about Christ.

I think it would be more accurate to say that to call yourself a "theist" says as much about your overall beliefs as "atheist" does.  xian is much more specific than "atheist". 
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Offline Hermes

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #180 on: April 05, 2009, 04:31:01 PM »
Still confused about the difference between theism, atheism, gnosticism, and agnosticism -- and who's dogmatic?

Laci breaks it down ...

The Atheism/Agnosticism Relationship
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIKeC9k2-Jg[/youtube]

Her channel;

http://www.youtube.com/user/gogreen18
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Offline GamerGirl

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #181 on: April 07, 2009, 05:32:55 AM »
I think this poll is silly because it's too... specialized and the sample size is not large enough to cover an adequate survey.... Eh, I felt pretentious in asking for pantheism or manentheism, but even so... I'm religiously confused and think that at this moment, I should continue to call myself myself and forget all the silly census labels that society wants me to find.

Offline Hermes

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #182 on: April 07, 2009, 08:55:37 AM »
I think this poll is silly because it's too... specialized and the sample size is not large enough to cover an adequate survey....

...and it's self-selecting, lack of controls on tracking how many people chose multiple answers and what they were, as well as having some other serious faults even before we get into the error rate for the small sample size.  If you have the money and time for a full survey with professionals, have at it.

Eh, I felt pretentious in asking for pantheism or manentheism,

Monotheism?

but even so... I'm religiously confused and think that at this moment, I should continue to call myself myself and forget all the silly census labels that society wants me to find.

There are categories that are intentionality missing from the list just to keep the size down and allow multiple choice answers.  If you can think of one that isn't so unique that it describes one snowflake in a blizzard, offer your suggestions.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #183 on: April 07, 2009, 08:58:04 AM »
I think she meant "panentheism" but made a typo.
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Offline xphobe

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #184 on: April 07, 2009, 09:45:15 AM »
manentheism = man is part of god? 

Generically as in "mankind", or gender-specific, as in "men are from God, women are from Satan"?

(j/k)  :D
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Offline GamerGirl

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #185 on: April 13, 2009, 01:33:32 AM »
panentheism... yep...

But I'm keeping it as Manentheism, man.  They call me mansquid on the web sometimes and it all started from an inside joke.

But Panentheism, to me, means that I can believe in God and science and still be myself. 


Offline politechristian

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #186 on: May 04, 2009, 05:08:34 PM »
I dont really care what you think. What you think God is.


As a bible believing christian.

I am far more interested in what you do.

Do you care more about others than yourself. Then you are my brother.

Do you consider benefiting you or things you like more important than others.  Then you need help.

Offline Astreja

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #187 on: May 04, 2009, 09:22:09 PM »
Do you care more about others than yourself. Then you are my brother.

Do you consider benefiting you or things you like more important than others.  Then you need help.

I respectfully disagree.  It's important to strike an equitable balance between self and others.  Denying yourself while giving, giving, giving is not any more healthy than denying others and living only for yourself.

Been there, done that.
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Offline xphobe

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #188 on: May 04, 2009, 10:51:06 PM »
^ Yup.  Even Jesus said "love others as yourself" - not more than, or less than yourself.

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Offline Hermes

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #189 on: May 04, 2009, 11:28:20 PM »
Wisdom from Astreja, once again.
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Offline periboob

Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #190 on: June 16, 2009, 12:19:35 PM »
I am probably closest to apnostic deist, but that is not really it. Why would I choose to guess on a matter where I have absolutely zero indicators either way? And as far as I can see, there is no benefit to making a guess. If there is no god, does it matter what I believe? It is a waste of effort to guess. If there is a god which wishes to remain hidden, who am I to speculate on His nature? If the creator of this Universe desires to hide, you can bet your ass we will never see any evidence of it. Maybe I am part of the lab experiment, and at the apocalypse the logical ones will be selected for breeding a new race. What can you say about chocolate manhole covers?

On the other hand, if there is an entity who created the Universe, and wants all things to know, and worship s/he/it, and has achieved the current results--Most matter not living, majority of living things have no intelligence and cant worship the invisible, majority of humans worship, but cant agree on what it is they are devoted to, a fair minority are absolutely sure that there is no creator--well, with that track record, God would just as likely send the wrong bunch to hell anyway. So, I am going to withold my faith, belief, even my guess, until I see a few burning bushes or something.

I think that the words ending in "eist" dont fit me well. While looking for enlightenment, I prayed to Google, "sets" that is. Often, Sets provides useful suggestions (but this time it also made me laugh). I went to labs.google.com/sets and gave it a starting list: deist, atheist, pantheist, then clicked "large set". Got a nice list, and a good answer for me. There in the lower-middle, see it? I am a skeptic. I dont "believe" things, given some evidence, I assign probabilities, I avoid even guessing without basis.

Here is the list I got, (for the record here in case Google changes her opinion) mostly what one might expect--except third from the bottom.  :D

Predicted Items
deist
atheist
pantheist
muslim
buddhist
mormon
jewish
christian
agnostic
hindu
sikh
catholic
rastafarian
presbyterian
lutheran
quaker
pagan
humanist
atheism
unity
episcopal
taoist
baptist/ame
freethinker
religion
protestant
agnosticism
skeptic
deism
nonbelievers
humanism
freethought
methodist
islam
unitarian
wiccan
other
secular+humanism
youtube
baptist
bible

Oh, my. Scientology didnt make the list here either--probably those Wikipedians have infested Google.
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Offline xphobe

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #191 on: June 16, 2009, 02:02:19 PM »
I prayed to Google, "sets" that is. Often, Sets provides useful suggestions (but this time it also made me laugh). I went to labs.google.com/sets and gave it a starting list: deist, atheist, pantheist, then clicked "large set".

Hey thanks for that tip periboob!    Another new tool to play with.  I love this here inter webs.
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Offline Agga

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #192 on: June 16, 2009, 03:13:51 PM »
Quote
Agnostic Monotheist - I do not know for certain, but I think only one specific god exists.
Agnostic Pantheist - I do not know for certain, but I think that everything is god.
Agnostic Deist - I do not know for certain, but I think there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.

I don't usually go for labels, per se, I'd say that a sort of montage of those three would be where I currently sit.

I like to ponder that there is only one god which is the universe and also that god doesn't meddle in things because god isn't an external entity to the uiniverse. or anything at all like religion claims.


So what does that work out to be?

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Offline Wolverine

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #193 on: June 19, 2009, 06:07:48 AM »
I clicked "Gnostic atheist." I like to go around saying that it is logically/rhetorically/philosophically provable that god definitely does not exist, but when I say that I'm referring specifically and only to the biblical Yahweh.

When it comes to the existence of a god in general, I like to say that if god does exist, he wants me to think he doesn't, and I'll gladly oblige.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #194 on: June 19, 2009, 09:55:30 AM »
Quote
Agnostic Monotheist - I do not know for certain, but I think only one specific god exists.
Agnostic Pantheist - I do not know for certain, but I think that everything is god.
Agnostic Deist - I do not know for certain, but I think there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.

I don't usually go for labels, per se, I'd say that a sort of montage of those three would be where I currently sit.

I like to ponder that there is only one god which is the universe and also that god doesn't meddle in things because god isn't an external entity to the uiniverse. or anything at all like religion claims.


So what does that work out to be?

Agnostic deist or pandeist, maybe, but not agnostic monotheist or pantheist.  Theism, as opposed to deism, posits that the deity does meddle in things.  So you're definitely a deist of some sort.
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Offline Agga

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #195 on: June 21, 2009, 12:35:38 AM »
Yeah I suppose I do err towards the side of some kind of deist.  Hmm.  The search continues :)
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #196 on: June 23, 2009, 10:41:05 PM »
I just formed this position in another thread, and it makes sense to me that the terminology work this way, but I'm not sure if it's officially accepted anywhere.  I'll quote:

Mar, a deist can be either a theist or an atheist.  If the deist believes in any additional, theistic god(s) (ie. one who meddles in the world), then the deist is also a theist.  If the deist does not believe in such additional, theistic god(s), then the deist is an atheist.

Atheism is the lack of belief in theistic deities.  Belief (or lack thereof) in mere deistic deities is correctly termed deism or adeism.

I'm not sure if adeism is a word, but imo it should be.  A deistic god is not the same thing as a theistic god, after all.  A god cannot be both meddling and not-meddling.
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Offline Hermes

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #197 on: June 24, 2009, 12:50:59 AM »
I just formed this position in another thread, and it makes sense to me that the terminology work this way, but I'm not sure if it's officially accepted anywhere.  I'll quote:

Mar, a deist can be either a theist or an atheist. 

In a strict sense, no.  While deists (or capital d Deists) are close philosophically to non-theists, they do make a claim about the existence of a deity.  As such, deists/Deists are theists.  (I consider them a transitional form, though!  ;D )

That said, I won't bust the chops of a deist or Deist or (as I've been reminded) a pantheist as long as they don't have additional flaky (and unsupported) ideas about how the world is.  If they do, then I will focus on those ideas and not their theism.

Deism (cap D or lowercase d) or pantheism is a nod to the idea that there could be or is a powerful entity that kicked off the whole process or (in the case of pantheism) *is* the whole process.  This was a noble and reasonable position when we were more ignorant of the nature of reality.  Now, it is less so but not as absurd as full blown supernatural theisms.

The deists/Deists/pantheists are logically consistent.  The universe/reality are consistent with what they say.  Yet, it is another layer and currently does not have any specific support for it.  This, also, is consistent with both logic and reality so it can not be dismissed except for the situation that focuses on the obvious; if you don't have support, why consider it?  Silence follows.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #198 on: June 24, 2009, 01:18:15 AM »
Hermes, I understand what deism is.  You didn't quite address my point:  A Deist generally has no belief in theistic gods.  That's why they're called Deists instead of Theists.  That they believe in a non-theistic god does not make them Theists, any more than belief in ancient alien overlords makes Scientologists into Theists.
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Offline xphobe

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #199 on: June 24, 2009, 11:55:42 AM »
If all gods are considered theist gods, and if deist gods are considered a subset of theist gods, then calling onself a deist as opposed to a theist is merely narrowing down your stance.

If that doesn't work, what is the term for all gods, including those which meddle and those which don't?
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #200 on: June 24, 2009, 12:05:24 PM »
That's just the thing though, xphobe.  Theism specifically doesn't refer to belief in deistic gods.  Otherwise there would be no reason for the term "deist" to exist as an alternative to "theist".  Theism is specifically the belief in meddling god(s).  Deism is a belief in non-meddling god(s).  Leprachaunism is a belief in leprachauns.  Why conflate any of these into one term?

Quote
If that doesn't work, what is the term for all gods, including those which meddle and those which don't?

I'm not sure.  Theism is a bad word for it, since its root refers to meddling god(s).  Theism is the word that gets used for this purpose most often anyway, but I'd put it to you that this is mainly because there are so few identified deists.

Why is such a term necessary?  And is the lack of such a term a good argument against the nomenclature I have laid out?
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Offline xphobe

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #201 on: June 24, 2009, 12:24:16 PM »
Leprechauns and ancient alien overlords aren't gods.  Well maybe Leprechauns are, I don't know enough about them.

The problem is that we're using theos- in two different senses: as meddling gods in the root of Theism, and as any gods in the root of Atheism.  So atheism is not the direct opposite of theism.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: What is your religious position? (Now with *Henotheism!* ... hmmm.)
« Reply #202 on: June 24, 2009, 12:45:22 PM »
I guess the root of the problem, then, is that we're using the same root (theos) for two different things.  Sounds like a case for a new word, imo.
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