God exists [#1574]

[DL]

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects..
When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said:
"I don't believe that God exists."
"Why do you say that?" asked the customer. "Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist.
Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people?
Would there be abandoned children?
If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.
I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things."
The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.
The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.
Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard.
He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber:
"You know what? Barbers do not exist."
"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber.
"I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!"
"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because
if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside."
"Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me."
"Exactly!" affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist!
That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

I apologize for the length, but it explains your questions in your video "10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer" I appreciate your for being respectful and civil about your argument(unlike most athiest youtubers), but you are still incredibly ignorant. To argue God or no-God, you need to fully understand both sides; meaning go to a church, talk with a pastor, etc. Imagine a toddler arguing how to drive a car: they have never drove and don't yet have any logical reasoning. This is my point of view of you arguing that God does not exist.

P.S. ;God can heal amputees, thru something called prosthetic limbs. It doesn't have to be the same thing but it functions just fine

Thank you for your time.

[Nick]

Last time I checked God did not make prosthetic limbs.  Your barber story was also pretty weak.  The God of the shadows does not help those who seek Him any more than those who don't.  God is still imaginary.  The barber was correct.

[Emily]

P.S. ;God can heal amputees, thru something called prosthetic limbs. It doesn't have to be the same thing but it functions just fine

Once again, someone ignoring the advancements of medical science and giving god all the credit.

[Hermes]

I apologize for the length, but it explains your questions in your video "10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer" I appreciate your for being respectful and civil about your argument(unlike most athiest youtubers), but you are still incredibly ignorant. To argue God or no-God, you need to fully understand both sides; meaning go to a church, talk with a pastor, etc.

Go to church, and talk with a pastor?  Well, I do that often enough.  Most of the time, I listen to one.  Well, I listen to a former pastor.  It's not hard to do, there are plenty of former pastors/preachers, evangelicals, theologians, and other professional religious people in these forums now or that pass through and visit from time to time.

On top of that, I do indeed know a bit about the Christian deity named God.

So, your claim that I am (or the maker(s) of the video) are ignorant is your assertion, and one that is not based in reality.

Imagine a toddler arguing how to drive a car: they have never drove and don't yet have any logical reasoning. This is my point of view of you arguing that God does not exist.

Imagine an Indy crew team, and the engineering staff who designed the engines.

If you want to go a few laps on the track, I'd be glad to show you the facilities, though I make no claims at being the one person who knows it all.

P.S. ;God can heal amputees, thru something called prosthetic limbs. It doesn't have to be the same thing but it functions just fine

A few comments;

1. No gods were there replacing amputated arms, so why claim that the gods get credit for their absence?

Along those lines, consider this;

German Doing Well After Double Arm Transplant
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GATCiaeuK0E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GATCiaeuK0E</a>

World's first double arm transplant patient delighted
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/3158287/Worlds-first-double-arm-transplant-patient-delighted.html

2. Let's say that your deity did indeed influence the man-made sciences and technology involved in making a prothetic appendage.  Why did it wait till modern times to do it, when humans were about to figure that out anyway?

3. Why are non-Christians and Christians roughly 'healed' at the same rate?

Thank you for your time.

Thank you for your future thoughtful and humble reply to my comments.  It would be a refreshing change from the normal messages posted here.

[Barracuda]

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects..
When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said:
"I don't believe that God exists."
"Why do you say that?" asked the customer. "Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist.
Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people?
Would there be abandoned children?
If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.
I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things."
The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.
The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.
Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard.
He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber:
"You know what? Barbers do not exist."
"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber.
"I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!"
"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because
if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside."
"Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me."
"Exactly!" affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist!
That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

I'd love for you to go to some dirt-poor community of families, like some in sub-saharan africa, and tell them (with a straight face) that they are in those conditions because they just haven't tried to look to jesus enough (even though a lot of them are much more strict than most americans).

[SimpleMan]

So, bad things don't happen to good christians? Seriously? You're going to try to make that stick?

..No chance he posts. This one is too easy.

[republican1021]

I am the author of the first message.

So, bad things don't happen to good christians?

Bad things happen to everyone, and they are not necessarily punishments by God, but God puts people thru certain experiences so that we may learn from them and share what God has delivered us from or taught us. Nonetheless, God does punish bad deeds and rewards good ones; but that just goes back to the barber story. You will come across many 'imposers' if you will, in the church, who don't practice what they preach, and hence, are punished.

I'd love for you to go to some dirt-poor community of families, like some in sub-saharan africa, and tell them (with a straight face) that they are in those conditions because they just haven't tried to look to jesus enough (even though a lot of them are much more strict than most americans).

I'm not one of those people that will tell you the American people are the smartest, or the kindest in the world. As an American (and proud one at that,) I most certainly find 99% of Americans completely ignorant. Your'e not far off in saying they have more common sense than Americans. To get to the point, I believe the poor people of Africa, SE Asia, etc live in the conditions they do because they do not know God, not that they refuse God.

AND TO RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS ABOUT PROSTHETICS:

God created everything and everyone in this universe. God does not have to be physically on Earth and physically be in the doctor's office performing surgery; God created the doctors, He created the people who manufacture the limbs, I could go on forever. Yes, I'm giving God all the credit, he deserves it.

Again I thank everyone for their respect and civility.

[bgb]

Who created god?

[Barracuda]

Thank you for joining the forums. Most people just send ridiculous messages and then never come and discuss it.

I'd love for you to go to some dirt-poor community of families, like some in sub-saharan africa, and tell them (with a straight face) that they are in those conditions because they just haven't tried to look to jesus enough (even though a lot of them are much more strict than most americans).

I'm not one of those people that will tell you the American people are the smartest, or the kindest in the world. As an American (and proud one at that,) I most certainly find 99% of Americans completely ignorant. Your'e not far off in saying they have more common sense than Americans. To get to the point, I believe the poor people of Africa, SE Asia, etc live in the conditions they do because they do not know God, not that they refuse God.

2 questions:

1)So, how do you get to know god?

2)Additionally, I would like to ask, even if someone doesn't "know" (whatever that means) god, is it really fair to put them in conditions such as those in sub-saharan africa, as a result of them not knowing god (especially if your answer to "1)" doesn't involve a willful or intentional process)?

[SimpleMan]

Bad things happen to everyone, and they are not necessarily punishments by God, but God puts people thru certain experiences so that we may learn from them and share what God has delivered us from or taught us. Nonetheless, God does punish bad deeds and rewards good ones; but that just goes back to the barber story. You will come across many 'imposers' if you will, in the church, who don't practice what they preach, and hence, are punished.

Nope. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

In the study, the researchers monitored 1,802 patients at six hospitals who received coronary bypass surgery, in which doctors reroute circulation around a clogged vein or artery.

The patients were broken into three groups. Two were prayed for; the third was not. Half the patients who received the prayers were told that they were being prayed for; half were told that they might or might not receive prayers.

The researchers asked the members of three congregations — St. Paul's Monastery in St. Paul; the Community of Teresian Carmelites in Worcester, Mass.; and Silent Unity, a Missouri prayer ministry near Kansas City — to deliver the prayers, using the patients' first names and the first initials of their last names.

The congregations were told that they could pray in their own ways, but they were instructed to include the phrase, "for a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications."

Analyzing complications in the 30 days after the operations, the researchers found no differences between those patients who were prayed for and those who were not.

edit: Welcome to the forum  

[Hermes]

I am the author of the first message.

Up front, I want to thank you for having the strength of your convictions to show up in the forums here.

Before I read on, I hope that the discussions you and others in this hodge-podge group will be useful, if not ideal.

[from your username] Being a Republican (USA) myself, I hope that you are routing for the health of our party and a return to hard-edged realism as opposed to the lack of accountability and fuzzy thinking that has caused so many problems.  I would like to kick Rush to the curb and give Steel a spine.

God created everything and everyone in this universe.

It's not my deity, and I don't take that as a given.

God does not have to be physically on Earth and physically be in the doctor's office performing surgery; God created the doctors, He created the people who manufacture the limbs, I could go on forever. Yes, I'm giving God all the credit, he deserves it.

As I mentioned before;

1. No gods were there replacing amputated arms, so why claim that the gods get credit for their absence?

To emphasize what I wrote, though I thought it was somewhat implied, if I were to ask a Muslim or a Hindu or some other religious group with a creation myth (no disrespect; I like myths) -- groups that would attribute the actions of their deity/deities in the same way you do -- why should I take your word for it as opposed to theirs?

I invite you to comment on that question or the others.

Again I thank everyone for their respect and civility.

[ tips hat in anticipation of an honest and thoughtful exchange, not one based on strident dogmas ]

[Hermes]

Who created god?

Indeed.  My favorite answer;

"God created man in his own image. And man, being a gentleman, returned the favor."

-- Rousseau

[Hermes]

IRT the title of this thread;

For Christians: What does "exists" mean to you in the phrase "God exists"?
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=2400

If there is any interest, especially from Christians, I'd be glad to re-open that thread or start a new one.

[spacejunkie]

Perhaps - anything is possible, but religion, that is pure bull. It is a corrupt political machine that pretends they know what God's word is in order to serve their own interests of power over the gullible that believe in them.

[Emily]

God created everything and everyone in this universe. God does not have to be physically on Earth and physically be in the doctor's office performing surgery; God created the doctors, He created the people who manufacture the limbs, I could go on forever. Yes, I'm giving God all the credit, he deserves it.

Can you explain to me why you believe this is true?

I'm curious.

[Ananukia]

God created everything and everyone in this universe. God does not have to be physically on Earth and physically be in the doctor's office performing surgery; God created the doctors, He created the people who manufacture the limbs, I could go on forever. Yes, I'm giving God all the credit, he deserves it.

Say I kill 48 children with a knife, I wonder who would get the credit for that? You say god created everything and everyone so he gets the credit.

So I'll give all the credit to god, he deserves it.

[13UnderTheGun]

bm

Now, where is that bag of popcorn?

[nettie]

i dont get it...you atheists should try to realise a point when he makes one and not kill it just because you dont want to believe.
when did he say that only non-christians suffer???? he said it is because the world hasnt come to God and that is why suffering happens...for example it is because of the greedy colonial masters that looted the places in Africa, as well as corruption of the leaders, that has made people hungry.
come on people, you dont have to be christian to know what!!!!

[Ananukia]

i dont get it...you atheists should try to realise a point when he makes one and not kill it just because you dont want to believe.
when did he say that only non-christians suffer???? he said it is because the world hasnt come to God and that is why suffering happens...for example it is because of the greedy colonial masters that looted the places in Africa, as well as corruption of the leaders, that has made people hungry.
come on people, you dont have to be christian to know what!!!!

So god is powerless in the face of 17th century governments.

[Hermes]

when did he say that only non-christians suffer????

If prayer worked, that would be the case though, or at a minimum there would be a statistical variation between Christians and non-Christians.  In reality, we do not see that.

he said it is because the world hasnt come to God and that is why suffering happens...

Equally to everyone depending on other bits of circumstance, and regardless of what the Christian religious texts say.

for example it is because of the greedy colonial masters that looted the places in Africa, as well as corruption of the leaders, that has made people hungry.

OK.

come on people, you dont have to be christian to know what!!!!

On the contrary, sometimes you have to not be a Christian to know that.  (That's kinda the point; prayers to Christian deities do not work, even though the Christian religious texts unambiguously talk about them being effective.)

[republican1021]

Who created god?

I don't think God was created, but has always existed. On Earth time is finite, but in heaven time is infinite and God and his angels have always existed- there was no beginning of time in the realm of heaven.

2 questions:

1)So, how do you get to know god?

2)Additionally, I would like to ask, even if someone doesn't "know" (whatever that means) god, is it really fair to put them in conditions such as those in sub-saharan africa, as a result of them not knowing god (especially if your answer to "1)" doesn't involve a willful or intentional process)?

1) You get to know God by reading the scripture, going to church, and talking with God. As for indigenous people of third-world countries, they get to know God thru missionaries.
2) God is an all-knowing God, so I personally cannot tell you why they live in the conditions they do.

Bad things happen to everyone, and they are not necessarily punishments by God, but God puts people thru certain experiences so that we may learn from them and share what God has delivered us from or taught us. Nonetheless, God does punish bad deeds and rewards good ones; but that just goes back to the barber story. You will come across many 'imposers' if you will, in the church, who don't practice what they preach, and hence, are punished.

Nope. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

In the study, the researchers monitored 1,802 patients at six hospitals who received coronary bypass surgery, in which doctors reroute circulation around a clogged vein or artery.

The patients were broken into three groups. Two were prayed for; the third was not. Half the patients who received the prayers were told that they were being prayed for; half were told that they might or might not receive prayers.

The researchers asked the members of three congregations — St. Paul's Monastery in St. Paul; the Community of Teresian Carmelites in Worcester, Mass.; and Silent Unity, a Missouri prayer ministry near Kansas City — to deliver the prayers, using the patients' first names and the first initials of their last names.

The congregations were told that they could pray in their own ways, but they were instructed to include the phrase, "for a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications."

Analyzing complications in the 30 days after the operations, the researchers found no differences between those patients who were prayed for and those who were not.

edit: Welcome to the forum 

First of all, I won't read anything from the NY Times as they cannot be taken seriously. The Holy Bible is a million times more credible than   
a liberal, secular, BS newspaper.
There could be several reasons why the people were not healed:

1) They were not praying correctly.
2) God has a greater purpose for the people with the disease or disability.
3) The whole thing is made up (in true NY Times fashion)

God does not have to be physically on Earth and physically be in the doctor's office performing surgery; God created the doctors, He created the people who manufacture the limbs, I could go on forever. Yes, I'm giving God all the credit, he deserves it.

As I mentioned before;

1. No gods were there replacing amputated arms, so why claim that the gods get credit for their absence?

To emphasize what I wrote, though I thought it was somewhat implied, if I were to ask a Muslim or a Hindu or some other religious group with a creation myth (no disrespect; I like myths) -- groups that would attribute the actions of their deity/deities in the same way you do -- why should I take your word for it as opposed to theirs?

I invite you to comment on that question or the others.

You should take my word for it over another faith because Christianity is the one true faith, with historical facts to back it up. Islam, Hindu, Buddhism, etc. are man-made religions that do not have historical fact or valid scripture to back them up.

God created everything and everyone in this universe. God does not have to be physically on Earth and physically be in the doctor's office performing surgery; God created the doctors, He created the people who manufacture the limbs, I could go on forever. Yes, I'm giving God all the credit, he deserves it.

Can you explain to me why you believe this is true?

I'm curious.

I believe it is true because it says so in the Word of God, aka the Holy Bible

Say I kill 48 children with a knife, I wonder who would get the credit for that? You say god created everything and everyone so he gets the credit.

So I'll give all the credit to god, he deserves it.

No, YOU get full credit for your own evil actions; and you also get your punishment, ie prison or death or extreme misery, pain, suffering.

when did he say that only non-christians suffer????

If prayer worked, that would be the case though, or at a minimum there would be a statistical variation between Christians and non-Christians.  In reality, we do not see that.

It's not just Christians and non-Christians; its [people who do not know Christianity exists], non-Christians, pretend Christians, and true Christians, who are very blessed people.


 

[Omen]

To get to the point, I believe the poor people of Africa, SE Asia, etc live in the conditions they do because they do not know God, not that they refuse God.

That was so ridiculously stupid, I'm embarrassed for you.  The level of ignorance and bigotry that necessarily accompanies such a statement is just frankly outstanding.  I only wish that your kind of stupid wasn't so readily repeatable or couldn't so easily be identified as falling into a christian category.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Africa

At the beginning of the 21st century Christianity is probably the main religion in most of sub-Saharan Africa, while in the northern part of the continent it is a minority religion, where the majority of the population are Muslims. There has been tremendous growth of Christians in Africa. As evidence, only nine million Christians were in Africa in 1900, but by the year 2000, there were an estimated 380 million Christians. According to a 2006 Pew Forum on Religion and Public life study, 147 millions of African Christians were "renewalists" (a term that includes both Pentecostals and Charismatics).[2] Much of the Christian growth in Africa is now due to African evangelism rather than Western missionaries.

The greater irony here is that this could be parody, but it so easily matches what a christian might do or say.. that its impossible to tell the difference.

[MrFriday]

I am the author of the first message.

Welcome to the forum. In response to your OP, I was an ordained Christian minister.  I found that I could not continue to advocate belief in God. Your barber story doesn’t answer the really difficult questions that I have about God. The point made in the video is that prayer doesn’t work for anyone whether Christian or not. For instance, when people pray for a cancer patient, nothing happens. We know this because the remission rate is exactly the same whether a person is prayed for or not.  

I had an object lesson in this when my baby brother died at ten months old. I was eight at the time. Hundreds, if not thousands, of people where praying for him to get well but it didn’t happen. Unfortunately it took me nearly thirty years to come to the realization that it was a failure of prayer. That is partly because there are so many rationalizations that we Christians use to excuse God for not living up to the promises in the Bible. And that is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the failure of God and the Bible, IMHO.

When infants die it is one of the most perplexing problems for believers. We can rationalize that all are born with sin. That doesn’t really feel right though. And it just brings into question the ineptitude of God in creating a being that is imperfect from birth or heaping the sins of our ancestors on every child born. You can argue that Adam’s transgression brought death into the world as the Bible says, but an infant is completely innocent. He has done nothing that deserves punishment. If his parents have sinned, it seems extremely callous of God to kill the child to punish them. The much more obvious explanation is that things just happen. There is no grand plan. Some die early in life, others die later. It’s just the way things are.

Nonetheless, God does punish bad deeds and rewards good ones;

If this is true, God is extremely inconsistent about it. I think any of us can come up with a big list of people who committed some very evil deeds that God never punished them for and we could probably create an equally big list of very good people who never hurt anyone who suffered miserably. The common answer to that is that death is the punishment for sin but as we have seen, even infants die. Death comes to us all. So it could only be considered a general punishment for being imperfect creatures. It is a one-size-fits-all punishment that doesn’t address the magnitude of sin. So it seems to be nothing more than a rationalization. With your claim that “imposers” are punished for not practicing what they preach, it sounds as if you believe that God punishes sin in this life. Can you elaborate on that?

I'm not one of those people that will tell you the American people are the smartest, or the kindest in the world. As an American (and proud one at that,) I most certainly find 99% of Americans completely ignorant. Your'e not far off in saying they have more common sense than Americans. To get to the point, I believe the poor people of Africa, SE Asia, etc live in the conditions they do because they do not know God, not that they refuse God.

This doesn’t really work. Look at the squalor in some South American countries. Some of those countries have the most devout Christians per capita of any in the world. Yet they suffer in poverty and filth. Why is God punishing them? I think if you really look at the world and history you can’t maintain that argument. Starvation and poverty are not results of the lack of God.  

AND TO RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS ABOUT PROSTHETICS:

God created everything and everyone in this universe. God does not have to be physically on Earth and physically be in the doctor's office performing surgery; God created the doctors, He created the people who manufacture the limbs, I could go on forever. Yes, I'm giving God all the credit, he deserves it.

I think it has already been asked but why is it that God didn’t create doctors and prosthetics thousands of years ago? If this is all from God, why did he wait until humans figured it out on their own to create doctors and prosthetics and medicines? I don’t see how you can argue that God was responsible for this when we can see the natural progression of knowledge in human society. At some point we will probably eradicate cancer. Will that be attributed to God or the diligent work of doctors and scientists?

And this avoids the question of faith healing. The Bible teaches us that God will heal through prayer and faith alone. God promises that we will be able to perform miracles even greater than those of Jesus Christ with just the smallest seed of faith. Unless you contend that there is no faith at all in the world, some healings must happen through faith and prayer. And indeed many Christians say they are. But the only ones we see are the ambiguous ones like cancer where remission may be uncommon but it isn’t a miracle. Again, the rate at which people recover from diseases is identical whether one is prayed for or not. Some religions throughout history have put God’s promises to the test and the result is that their members die, their children die.

When it comes to amputees, there can be no ambiguous recovery. And if you think that an amputee praying for his limb to be restored is going to be really satisfied with prosthetics, think again. Prosthetics have no sensation so they are not able to do the same things. And amputees suffer pain in their amputation site as well as phantom pain. These are not alleviated by prosthetics. This is not a cure. It is a poor substitute. Is that what God calls healing? The Bible says Jesus brought Lazarus back to life. If he had just animated a doll with Lazarus’ spirit, would that have been the same? He could have made the same excuses people do about healing amputees because Lazarus had started to decompose, but he didn’t. Jesus performed miracles and said we could do it too. Technology is not a miracle. And it is not from God. We are still stuck with no healed amputees no matter how much it fails to fit your view of God.

[Barracuda]

2 questions:

1)So, how do you get to know god?

2)Additionally, I would like to ask, even if someone doesn't "know" (whatever that means) god, is it really fair to put them in conditions such as those in sub-saharan africa, as a result of them not knowing god (especially if your answer to "1)" doesn't involve a willful or intentional process)?

1) You get to know God by reading the scripture, going to church, and talking with God. As for indigenous people of third-world countries, they get to know God thru missionaries.
2) God is an all-knowing God, so I personally cannot tell you why they live in the conditions they do.

1) Wait, we already established that those people (many of them anyway) are christians, which means they do do those things. So again, can you how someone gets to know god that is consistent with the fact that sub-saharan africans are christians, and is also consistent with the fact that sub-saharan africans are in the condition they are in because they don't "know god?"

2) Wait, but you already gave me an excuse:

I believe the poor people of Africa, SE Asia, etc live in the conditions they do because they do not know God, not that they refuse God.

[Frank]

You should take my word for it over another faith because Christianity is the one true faith, with historical facts to back it up. Islam, Hindu, Buddhism, etc. are man-made religions that do not have historical fact or valid scripture to back them up.

My irony meter just went off the scale. 

[Emily]

You should take my word for it over another faith because Christianity is the one true faith, with historical facts to back it up. Islam, Hindu, Buddhism, etc. are man-made religions that do not have historical fact or valid scripture to back them up.

Oh, such a statement.

What historical facts do you have to back up Christianity.

[JesusHChrist]

You should take my word for it over another faith because Christianity is the one true faith, with historical facts to back it up. Islam, Hindu, Buddhism, etc. are man-made religions that do not have historical fact or valid scripture to back them up.

Yeah, that crazy Islam with all that a-historical stuff going on. Gotta love 'em for the level of BS skills involved.

Not like Christianity with its talking snake, two conflicting creation stories, a non-existent flood, an exodus that didn't happen, a talking donkey, magic tricks such as turning water into wine, reanimation of the dead, witches, demons, spirits and what not! Oh yes, so many historical "facts"! NOT!

And on the subject of magic tricks: When Jesus was on earth how come he didn't do much other than low-level conjuring instead of doing something truly god-like? Such as say, oh, telling humans about the germ theory of disease and how to make antibiotics out of mold? You know, something USEFUL.

But no, Jesus goes around walking on water, feeding the masses a bunch of fish and turning water into wine. Hmmmmm......

[MrFriday]

Yeah, you would think a God would be able to do more than parlor tricks.

[Omen]

Yeah, you would think a God would be able to do more than parlor tricks.

At least something that other greek gods havn't done.

[Cycle4Fun]

greedy colonial masters

So god is powerless in the face of 17th century governments.

Well, he struggles with iron chariots.  Imagine what Iron muskets could do!