Has the Internet Accelerated the Move to Atheism?

[anthony_retford]

Before the Internet (BI) we could only talk with a very small circle of friends, and one preferred not to declare athiesm in such a small circle. Now we have an anonymous method of declaring our realizations, and I can only conclude that now (AI) atheism will spread incredibly faster. Any comments?

[William]

Good point.  Everything that is going to happen anyway, happens faster with the internet involved.  I feel theists using the internet will get more exposure to ideas they'll never normally discuss in their cosy God-clubs - so there is a start.  And the progression of people from the point of acknowledging their doubts to themselves privately, through agnosticism to atheism will progress much faster because the information and arguments are accessible.  There is even free emotional support and a community spirit available from many forums, including this one, if they seek it.

[Timtheskeptic]

better to tell the world and stand for what we believe in than to remain in the closet like some homosexual friends.

[madame_zora]

Loath as I am to admit it, I do think the internet is having an affect. Now that everyone's their own little googlemeister, people are learning to back up their claims, and that opinions offered in the public fora are subject to public scrutiny. People are also learning that the information they cite will also be criticised, and this is re-introducing the basic idea of critical thinking into the discourse.

There's been plenty of information to make a rational decision for a long time, but until the internet, people had to put forth a great deal more effort to find it. Now it's all just a few clicks away, the god virus will have to survive by mutation. Hopefully it will get nicer, a hell of a lot of people around the world are sick of war. I think that's got a lot to do with why more people are willing to at least listen to the arguments against god.

[Husky]

I am lucky in the sense that I can safely declare that I am an atheist without fears of any repercussions. My country is a multi racial and multi religion nation where people just go about doing their own business.

I do however had problems finding fellow atheists to share/discuss religious issues. So yeah, in a way the internet is useful in helping me hook up with fellow like minded people.

I am glad to know I am not alone and that there are people who actually understand why I am so preoccupied with all these religious issues even though I am an atheist. I am not so much interested in God per se but just very curious as to why people actually believe in God(s). Good to know all of you here. Thank God for the internet  

Cheers

[CutePuppy]

Yes, less fear of coming out as an atheist certainly gets that snowball rolling in favor of atheism. But I think the most powerful advantage of the Internet is open discourse/education. Children indoctrinated by religious stuff from a young age and never having any kind of actual knowledge to make them consider otherwise will find a breadth of knowledge on the Internet. Educating them to be more critical, rational, practical, sensible.

Personally, I dropped religion for agnostic atheism before I had access to the Internet. However, my parents were not religious and my mother regularly discouraged me from being a "religious (jesus) freak, because those people are not very sane". Yet, I still managed to con myself into thinking religion made sense and that being a believer made me special. My youthful ignorance and insecurity got the better of me, but not for too long.

The Internet is great because there are still many things I do not know but would like to know. I appreciate people far more educated (and intelligent) than I am to explain these things to me (e.g. on evolution, genetics, astronomy etc.) and at the very least make me think more critical. I realized that there may still be plenty of religious people out there that could debate me under a table on religion versus atheism. But it's important to realize that that doesn't mean that they're right and I'm wrong on these issues. It simply means I (currently) lack the information/knowledge to confront their nonsense properly. When you put the finest religious people against the finest people making a case against religion, it becomes blatantly clear how outgunned the religious folks are on logic.

Religion has a solid history of picking on the uneducated and fearful, and I think the Internet is a very effective counter to that blatant abuse. As (higher) education is more available to all kinds of people, the nonsense that is religion will dwindle.

[InvisiblePinkUnicorn]

This is almost self-evident.    Almost.

[Crocoduck]

i think it helps tremendously on many fronts-

social networking is huge, this is the one area where the religious always had a big advantage- they tend to meet one or more times a week and can rally their "troops" pretty easily. as an atheist before the advent of the internet it was nearly 20 years before i spoke with another atheist.

research at your fingertips- this is big as well, when i was growing up and was told something from the pulpit... it assumed it was true. there was really no way to easily verify otherwise. now when people are told that there is mountains of evidence to prove the resurrection for example... a few mouse clicks can reveal the truth of the matter.

even people just lurking or passing by on this board can see in a moment's notice how weak the arguments for jesusism really are.

it didnt really help me as it came after my reversion, but im sure it wouldve done nothing but help if i had access to it.

[kin hell]

Absolutely no doubt.

This and the previous forum, are a remarkable success in our terms, and in every way suggested in the posts below.

So a completely respectful word to the site admin, ....as our gatekeepers.
 
This fact, certainly will have been noticed by some of our more rabid funder-dunces, and just because they are idiots, doesn't mean they don't know tek-head idiot savants.

Awareness is not paranoia.

[Hermes]

I can vouch that these types of discussions were strong in the BBS and early newsgroup days as well as the old propitiatory commercial networks.  The web has kicked it out to a wider less-geeky audience.

[Nam]

I think the internet may have expanded such people to come out (yet hide behind their usernames while not using their real ones; I'm not one of those, Nam is my actual nickname, family and friends know me by it, I ain't hiding shit) but I also feel that the internet provides a better understanding of what Atheism is and who Atheists are, as a people, where as many Churches believe that Atheists are just evil people who will do anything to spread their evil. Of course some Churches and their members still believe this today no matter what you tell them but I think some people are learning that Atheists are just like everyone else except they do not believe in a god or gods and may or may not be theistic.

-Nam

[Nick]

What's an internet?  Isn't that something Al Gore invented?

[Nam]

What's an internet?  Isn't that something Al Gore invented?

You know, he never actually stated he invented the internet. What he actually stated was twisted around by some people, and now everyone thinks that's what he actually stated.

-Nam

[Timtheskeptic]

i don't know who exactly invented the internet, but i sure as doubt it was ever al gore.

[Nam]

i don't know who exactly invented the internet, but i sure as doubt it was ever al gore.

According to this website, no one person created the internet:

http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/history/inventednet.html

And the whole Al Gore saying he invented the internet (which is untrue):

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

-Nam

[screwtape]

Before the Internet (BI) we could only talk with a very small circle of friends, and one preferred not to declare athiesm in such a small circle. Now we have an anonymous method of declaring our realizations, and I can only conclude that now (AI) atheism will spread incredibly faster. Any comments?

It is not as if the idea that there is no god is spreading faster than any other idea on the internet.  They are all going the same speed.  So net/net I think it makes little difference, because all the other competing ideas are there too. And much as I am loath to disagree with the bright and charming Madam Zora, I think the fact that any crackpot can set up a web page means that religious kooks think they have proof because they found a website that shows that the amount of dust on the moon means the world must be no more than 5000-6000 years old.  That kind of shit just does not show up in books at your local library.  The internet lends credibility to the crackpots or robs it from legitimate sources.  Because NASA and AnswersInGenesis are both in the same place, they must be equally legitimate.

So, no.  I think the internet has done nothing.  It may have set us back.  The internet will help you find whatever weird thing you want, exactly.  You are into leather-slaves?  There is a site for it.  You are into watching unshaven overweight jewish women cook matzo balls in the nude?  There is a site for it.  You want friendly, casual chat with atheists?  Go to ATT. 

Similarly there is a niche for every flavor of atheist.  Whereas BI, we would have to go to local humanist clubs and talk amongst people who we may not have agreed with 100%, now we can find our exact niche.  It has splintered us and fractured us.  It keeps us in front of our computer talking to the exact audience we want instead of actually doing things.  We should be organizing and sponsoring red cross blood drives.  We should be setting up tents at local fairs, right next to the gun club, the methodists and the presbyterians.  We should be raising money to fund studying why we are different, whether it is futile to attempt deconversion and if not, what is the best way to do it en mass. 

No.  The internet could be a powerful tool.  Instead, it is a giant timesuck.

[bikerbabe]

My answer to this, YES!! w/luv, BB

[Azdgari]

Screwtape:  Agreed on all counts.  It's easy to think that the internet is helping one's own point of view thrive.  In a sense, it does.  But since it also helps all other points of view, even entirely stupid ones, it's not a net-positive.

And it does distract from real-life activity that might actually do something.

[Nam]

My answer to this, YES!! w/luv, BB

I've seen this comment on another topic; are you just going to be posting this same redundancy wherever you go now?

-Nam

[InvisiblePinkUnicorn]

My answer to this, YES!! w/luv, BB

I've seen this comment on another topic; are you just going to be posting this same redundancy wherever you go now?

-Nam

With "yes" and "no" being the typical answers to valid questions, it will be redundant after two responses max.  I applaud BB for being brief and direct in her answers!

[gonegolfing]

Screw:

You are into watching unshaven overweight jewish women cook matzo balls in the nude?  There is a site for it.  

There's a f**k of an image ! By the Jayzuz man ! Stop it !

Similarly there is a niche for every flavor of atheist.  Whereas BI, we would have to go to local humanist clubs and talk amongst people who we may not have agreed with 100%, now we can find our exact niche.  It has splintered us and fractured us.  It keeps us in front of our computer talking to the exact audience we want instead of actually doing things.  We should be organizing and sponsoring red cross blood drives.  We should be setting up tents at local fairs, right next to the gun club, the methodists and the presbyterians.  We should be raising money to fund studying why we are different, whether it is futile to attempt deconversion and if not, what is the best way to do it en mass.  

I like some of what you suggest here. I do have a question with regards to the statement in bold.

Do you mean to do this apart from the blood drives and to be promoting the atheistic position at fairs ?

If so, is doing that then considered moving from non-dogmatic atheism to dogmatic atheism ? I'm not opposed at all to this action, but I'm wondering what the chances are of it being done with very little confrontation and violence ? Again, I have no objections to this action and I'm very public with my position as it is, but I'm wondering about how we would present ourselves, and under what name do we do this if we hit the streets with the proclamation of our without belief positions ?

I'm not so sure I would want to set up a booth right beside a gun club though!!  

All joking aside, I am sure however, that I wouldn't want to die in a booth at a fair, by a bullet from a gun in the hands of a deluded f**ktard that hated me just because I didn't believe in their god.

It might be impossible to eliminate that possibility with presenting atheism as a cause, but I just don't know if I can take that risk. I love the good things in life too much  

It sure gets me thinking though, as I can't stomach the poison that religion is.  





 

[bikerbabe]

My answer to this, YES!! w/luv, BB

I've seen this comment on another topic; are you just going to be posting this same redundancy wherever you go now?

-Nam

With lots of luv, Nam... YES!!

[Timtheskeptic]

i'm lost with what's going on here honestly.

[screwtape]

Screw:

You are into watching unshaven overweight jewish women cook matzo balls in the nude?  There is a site for it.  

There's a f**k of an image ! By the Jayzuz man ! Stop it !

...wearing stilettos?  Covered in hummus?

Similarly there is a niche for every flavor of atheist.  Whereas BI, we would have to go to local humanist clubs and talk amongst people who we may not have agreed with 100%, now we can find our exact niche.  It has splintered us and fractured us.  It keeps us in front of our computer talking to the exact audience we want instead of actually doing things.  We should be organizing and sponsoring red cross blood drives.  We should be setting up tents at local fairs, right next to the gun club, the methodists and the presbyterians.  We should be raising money to fund studying why we are different, whether it is futile to attempt deconversion and if not, what is the best way to do it en mass.  

I like some of what you suggest here. I do have a question with regards to the statement in bold.

Do you mean to do this apart from the blood drives and to be promoting the atheistic position at fairs ?

Yes.  Where ever the theists are out marketing to people, we should be there too. We should be visible as part of our communities.  We should be communicating with the public at large that we are decent, moral people and not satanists bent on the destruction of civilization.  We should be collecting money for our cause(s) and for charity.

I think if people just understood what atheism means and if it were more regularly presented as an option, then we would have more favorable PR and more like minded people.  That has to start somewhere and some time. 

If so, is doing that then considered moving from non-dogmatic atheism to dogmatic atheism ?

I do not think so.  I do not think providing information and answer questions is dogmatic.  I do not even know what dogmatic atheism means, to be honest. 

I'm not opposed at all to this action, but I'm wondering what the chances are of it being done with very little confrontation and violence ?

Do the catholics have to worry the protestants are going to rumble with them?  Do the jews get worried about the local hindus?  All the events I have seen everyone gets along fine.  That violence even crosses your mind as a possible outcome shows that we have a huge problem.  And the only way to solve that problem is to confront it.  And if we are not the ones to confront it, then to whom do we leave it?  You and I have had this conversation before, GG.  Confrontations are inevitable.  So what?  You are an adult and you can handle it. 

Again, I have no objections to this action and I'm very public with my position as it is, but I'm wondering about how we would present ourselves, and under what name do we do this if we hit the streets with the proclamation of our without belief positions ?

I cannot answer that.  Nearest to me is a group of secular humanists.  They cringe at the idea of being called atheists.  But these are the people I have to work with.  I think presenting as a humanist is fine, though it may take more explanation before people understand you are not a new cult and you do not believe in god.  I suggest just having a presence, answering questions, providing information and collecting donations.  Get the least geeky, most attractive atheists you can find though.  I hesitate to go public with my humanists - they are are a train-wreck.

I'm not so sure I would want to set up a booth right beside a gun club though!!

It might be safer than the Rotarians.

All joking aside, I am sure however, that I wouldn't want to die in a booth at a fair, by a bullet from a gun in the hands of a deluded f**ktard that hated me just because I didn't believe in their god.

It might be impossible to eliminate that possibility with presenting atheism as a cause, but I just don't know if I can take that risk. I love the good things in life too much  

Come on, gg, you are near the end of the line anyway.  It would be better for you be a martyr than die quietly in your sleep.  You could be like our jesus h christ.

In all seriousness, a fucktard could kill you tomorrow for even stupider reasons.  This is important and we all need to find the energy, conviction and courage to do it. 

It sure gets me thinking though, as I can't stomach the poison that religion is. 

Well, here is your opportunity to do something about it.

[trustno1]

http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/

American Religious Identification Survey 2008

...Employing the same research methodology as the 1990 and 2001 surveys, ARIS 2008... provides the only complete portrait of how contemporary Americans identify themselves religiously, and how that self-identification has changed over the past generation...

...The percentage of Americans claiming no religion, which jumped from 8.2 in 1990 to 14.2 in 2001, has now increased to 15 percent. Given the estimated growth of the American adult population since the last census from 207 million to 228 million, that reflects an additional 4.7 million "Nones..."

...The percentage of Christians in America, which declined in the 1990s from 86.2 percent to 76.7 percent, has now edged down to 76 percent....

These are pretty dramatic numbers.  It's sort of unfortunate that this survey series began at almost the very moment the Internet became ubiquitous, thus affording no reliably comparable pre-Internet statistical baseline.

So, giving a nod to the usual caveat that association is not necessarily causation, what explanations are there other than the advent of the Internet for the dramatic jump in "Nones" coinciding with the dramatic drop in Christers?

The revolutionary impact of Gutenberg's movable type printing press and the impact of the Internet on the dissemination of information have been likened to one another.  Gutenberg started out printing church indulgences and bibles.  But just ninety years later the Copernican Revolution began with the printing of De Revolutionibus Orbium Coelestium (On the Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres).  I have this picture in my head right now of teenage Copernicus's mother crashing into his bedroom, locking hands on hips, and shouting, "Nikki!  Now what are you reading?  We are a family of merchants and Christian clergy!  But you always got your head buried in those foreign bits of printed paper!  What's this -- astrology stuff and infidel Moorish Arab stargazing charts?  This Gutenberg's press will be the end of me!  Oh kill me with a knife!  When my baby should be out learning an honest Christian trade, he's always and ever wrapped up with this giant timesuck -- reading!"         

[screwtape]

I think the survey has been discussed here already and it was pointed out that "none" is not the same as atheist.

[trustno1]

http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/

•   Only1.6 percent of Americans call themselves atheist or agnostic. But based on stated beliefs, 12 percent are atheist (no God) or agnostic (unsure), while 12 percent more are deistic (believe in a higher power but not a personal God). The number of outright atheists has nearly doubled since 2001, from 900 thousand to 1.6 million. Twenty-seven percent of Americans do not expect a religious funeral at their death.

One fourth of Americans have plainly, cleanly broken their association with the anthropocentric, genocidal god of Israel.  That's progress.

I know there've been endless nitpicky discussions over definitions at these atheist forums, but I'd point out again that if one is unsure of something, one does not attest to it.  If I'm agnostic about the green cheese moon, I don't attest to the green cheese moon.  If I'm unconvinced of god's existence, I am, duh, not a believer.  Agnosticism is logically and in practice a subset of atheism. 

[screwtape]

I'm still not buying.  Thank you for the links, though.  Your efforts are not unappreciated.

[screwtape]

In all seriousness, a fucktard could kill you tomorrow for even stupider reasons.  This is important and we all need to find the energy, conviction and courage to do it.  

It sure gets me thinking though, as I can't stomach the poison that religion is.  

Well, here is your opportunity to do something about it.

How about it, GG?


edit - clicked post instead of +

[Not on the fence]

Yes I do believe that the Internet has accelerated the move to Atheism.
Without the Internet we just rely on books, and not everyone goes out and looks for books on this subject.
I think its great that its easier to educate ourselves, there is so much info out there, some good, some bad, you just have to weed through it all and decide which is the right info.
For example I probably would not have gotten the plethora of information I have about Feline nutrition if it wasnt for the internet.  I probably would have listened to my Vet,(who some people think they are god when it comes to your pet) who knows very little about feline nutrition.  Note to add not really pertaining to this, but for all of those who believe in Evolution and Science??  Then why are you not feeding your felines (obligate carnivores) what they are supposed to eat (Meat) ,not dry crappy pet food.
Sorry had to add that in there. I'll shut up now. lol!