Author Topic: What do Atheists believe?  (Read 4050 times)

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Offline holybuckets

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What do Atheists believe?
« on: April 03, 2009, 12:02:09 AM »
Hey, I'm new to this forum...
I do have a question for you.
I see a lot of rebuttals of Christian posts...
As atheists, what do you believe?

Offline Irish

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2009, 12:09:39 AM »
What do I believe:

With religion, spiritual realm, science, culture, politics... what?
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline holybuckets

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2009, 12:16:57 AM »
Well,
What I'm asking is: You say there is no god....
What proof do you have there is no god?
That's a fair question isn't it? You say there is no god.
What evidence or proof do you have?

Offline Fridge

Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2009, 12:20:48 AM »
We don't need proof.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. " - Martin Luther King Jr.

"He wants us to stop sinning- to stop hurting each other.  And one of the ways we do that is by coming to Jesus and eating His flesh and drinking His blood"
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Offline Irish

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2009, 12:22:59 AM »
Well,
What I'm asking is: You say there is no god....

Which god?  I say there is no Zeus...  you say there is no Zeus.  I say there is no Odin... you say there is no Odin.

Quote
What proof do you have there is no god?

What proof do you have there is no Zeus or Odin or the thousands of other gods neither of us believe in?

These are not standoff-ish questions but genuine replies.  Take your question of why I don't believe in your god and apply it to any other god you don't believe in.  That is the same thing I go through when examining the validity of your deity.
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline holybuckets

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2009, 12:28:20 AM »
I'm not trying to prove god, you say there isn't one and I'm not seeing any proof or concrete evidence yet?
One guy says "we no need proof"...
What's up?
You say there is no god... what evidence do you have?
It's a simple question!

Offline xTigerx

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2009, 12:30:39 AM »
Depends on which god you're talking about.  If it's just some arbitrary god, then I don't claim it doesn't exist... I simply don't believe it.  But if you're talking a specific god, then you ought to say which god you're talking about.  Saying "the Christian God" won't be much help either.  There are quite a few variations of the Christian God out there.
God, if you're real, show yourself.  ...still waiting...
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Offline Fridge

Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2009, 12:31:04 AM »
One guy says "we no need proof"...
What's up?
You say there is no god... what evidence do you have?
It's a simple question!

Atheists don't say there is no god. We lack the belief that there is one, and that doesn't require evidence.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. " - Martin Luther King Jr.

"He wants us to stop sinning- to stop hurting each other.  And one of the ways we do that is by coming to Jesus and eating His flesh and drinking His blood"
-theist

Offline Irish

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2009, 12:32:33 AM »
holybuckets,

I'm assuming you're a Christian... is this correct?  (Just getting some background)

If you are Christian then try this:

Take that exact same question and apply it to yourself.  Why don't you, holybuckets, believe in Allah?  What proof do you have that Allah doesn't exist?
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline holybuckets

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2009, 12:33:49 AM »
Fridge,
Are you telling me you believe something you cant prove?

Offline Fridge

Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2009, 12:34:38 AM »
Fridge,
Are you telling me you believe something you cant prove?

Why do I need to prove it? Belief doesn't require proof.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. " - Martin Luther King Jr.

"He wants us to stop sinning- to stop hurting each other.  And one of the ways we do that is by coming to Jesus and eating His flesh and drinking His blood"
-theist

Offline Erasmus

Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2009, 12:38:07 AM »
There's probably already a topic on this somewhere, but I find it pretty odd (and since I've started watching a lot of Dawkins and Harris interviews, I'm not the only one who found it odd) to define yourself in terms of something you're not. I don't go around calling myself an adragonist. Why don't we call ourselves realists and call theists arealists? Or rationalists and arationalists? I have no problem defining myself as an atheist, but from the get-go it puts us on the defensive by virtue of the name atheist. It's as if the burden of proof is on us to prove that there is not a god, which is ridiculous. Everyone is born an atheist, it's the default position until brainwashing kicks in, so let's have words that reflect this, words that make religion the thing that needs to be justified and not areligion.
If there be gods we cannot help them, but we can assist our fellow-men. - Robert Ingersoll

People should reject God defiantly in order to pour out all their loving solicitude upon mankind - Albert Camus

Offline Astreja

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2009, 12:42:43 AM »
What do I believe?

I am an agnostic atheist who is also a humanist.  I believe that it is the responsibility of humans to make this world a sustainable, just and fulfilling place, by behaving in a thoughtful, rational, and responsible fashion.  I do not expect help from supernatural beings, nor do I seek it.

I see no evidence of gods being anything other than constructs of the human imagination.  That doesn't necessarily rob them of their power, as the human brain can do some wonderful tricks even with pretend gods.

There may, indeed, be gods out there.  Their existence or nonexistence is irrelevant to my life.  However, I still have to deal with the actions of people who believe in such beings, and some of those actions are actively harmful to the future of humanity.  In that sense, I am a determined anti-theist who seeks to undermine religious superstition wherever it can be found.
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Offline holybuckets

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2009, 12:43:00 AM »
Fridge,
You are correct, belief doesn't require proof.... a person can believe anything they want!
But you think there is no god... is that a belief? Or is it based on any truth? Which would require some evidence of course.

Offline holybuckets

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2009, 12:52:07 AM »
Fridge,
What's up?
You have over 400 posts of asking people to prove their case, yet you cannot prove yours.

Offline Fridge

Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2009, 01:00:12 AM »
Fridge,
What's up?
You have over 400 posts of asking people to prove their case, yet you cannot prove yours.

No, I don't think I've asked someone to prove their beliefs, but once they state it as fact it becomes a different story.

Show me that my belief is either true or false.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. " - Martin Luther King Jr.

"He wants us to stop sinning- to stop hurting each other.  And one of the ways we do that is by coming to Jesus and eating His flesh and drinking His blood"
-theist

Offline Erasmus

Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2009, 01:02:32 AM »
I'll happily respond. I'm an atheist for three main reasons. The first is that there are scientific models that can explain or are being researched that can remove god essentially by exhaustion. What I mean by this is that for nearly every action in which god interacts with reality (creator of life, creator of universe, giver of morality), science has or is working on a more satisfactory model than "God did it." This means that the evidence for a god that has interacted with reality at any point is strikingly small, and therefore, because I proportion my belief in accordance with evidence, I believe in the non-existence of God.

The second reason is a moral reason. I think that humanity is beautiful and needs to be cherished and protected, and that harmful and absurd beliefs predicate harmful and absurd actions. Belief in nearly any given theistic religion breeds intolerance, hatred, bigotry, ignorance, oppression and a host of other harms, therefore I classify it as a harmful belief. This is backed up both by reason and empirical reality. I respect and cherish people, but I do not respect or cherish beliefs.

The third reason is because it's just so ridiculous. I swear, it seems like the more implausible and loony the religion is, the more people will buy it. Transubstantiating cosmic Jewish zombies? Give me a break.
If there be gods we cannot help them, but we can assist our fellow-men. - Robert Ingersoll

People should reject God defiantly in order to pour out all their loving solicitude upon mankind - Albert Camus

Offline holybuckets

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2009, 01:09:41 AM »
Fridge,
I cant show you what's true or false about your belief is... because I don't know what you believe in.
You posted that belief doesn't require proof, so, I'm lost..
Once again let me pose the question at you...
You are an atheist, an atheist believes there is no god... what proof do you have?

Offline Fridge

Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2009, 01:15:15 AM »
I cant show you what's true or false about your belief is... because I don't know what you believe in.

I believe there is no god.

Quote
You are an atheist, an atheist believes there is no god... what proof do you have?

I don't need proof.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. " - Martin Luther King Jr.

"He wants us to stop sinning- to stop hurting each other.  And one of the ways we do that is by coming to Jesus and eating His flesh and drinking His blood"
-theist

Offline omniweasel

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2009, 01:17:35 AM »
you can't show evidence for a negative except for the lack of evidence for a positive. there is no evidence for a god or gods. therefore the default or that god doesn't exist must be assumed.

Offline xopowo

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2009, 01:20:21 AM »
Holybuckets,

Listen up, dude, and listen good:

I believe leprachauns do not exist. Do I need to prove that? If so, how would I go about proving it? I trust that you do not believe kripshnirks exist, but where is your proof?

From your unncessarily aggressive tone towards fridge, I am presuming you are a believer, probably Christian. As such, you believe in a creator god. Since it is YOU making the extraordinary claim of a magical, all-powerful sky fairy, it is YOU who must provide extraordinary evidence.

So put up, or back off.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.

Religion is answers that may never be questioned.

Offline Irish

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2009, 01:36:32 AM »
holybuckets,

Examine why you do not believe in Allah, Thor, Odin, Balor, or Ahura Mazda and you'll understand atheism.
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline CosmicScherzo

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2009, 01:47:44 AM »
Holybuckets, google "Russell's teapot".
"What claim has your piety on my deference?"

Offline sortasuperb

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2009, 01:51:42 AM »
Holybuckets, welcome.

Lets try it this way. I am an atheist. This simply means that there is not a god in my life. I don't walk around all day not thinking about god, but rather doing stuff without a god belief or god thought or god-based reality. I have no reason to think that there is a god, nor do I feel a need to prove to myself that a god does not exist. My life lacks prayer, church, church potlucks, church committees, church sermons, etc. but otherwise its all there. I eat (again, no prayer), sleep (no prayer), work, play, have friends, etc. All without a god.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that both of agree there are no leprechauns. So, each of us gets up every morning, goes through our day, gets home at night and goes to bed without giving a thought to leprechauns. Do you feel you should have to justify, in any way, not believing in leprechauns? Do you have the needed proof to justify your position the next time someone asks you about it? Of course not.

Now obviously religion is an important part of many peoples lives, and hence those of us that reject it at times confound or anger those who so deeply believe. Regardless of the specifics of their beliefs, however, none of them can show me any of their gods. Each is invisible. Each is unknowable in any normal human way. Each requires some variation on the "faith and belief" theme.

We atheists simply look at the gyrations required to justify any given religious belief and conclude that there is nothing behind the curtain, so to speak. Since no religion can prove itself to be true and real, some percentage of the planet is going to shrug its shoulders and say "I doubt its really true that there is a god", and many of those people agree to be referred to as atheists.

If nobody believed in a god, nobody would have to be an atheist.

Those who do believe in a god are apparently perplexed at the idea of not believing, but it would help a lot of they could at least be accepting of the idea. Since no christian or member of any other religion can point up into the sky (or anywhere else) and say to me "Look, there he is. He's waving right now", no religion can meet my standards of proof. All religion can show me is a back-story, a conveniently supportive version of history and a book that contains the "truth".

None of this would matter much if each and every version of belief could keep its specific moralities and rules and expectations to itself and let society in general come up with something "average" the generally met the needs of everyone without stepping on the toes of anyone. However, many special interest groups, including the religious, undertake nefarious projects, like trying to get creationism taught in schools or wanting their god to be acknowledged at on a regular basis by everyone, regardless of religion or non-religion. I learned the Pledge of Allegiance in 1953 as a first grader, and had to learn a modified version in 1954 because suddenly America was "under god". Now thats not a big deal to me though I think its pretty cheeky of the religious to shove stuff like that down my throat. But then we have to ask where it will stop. At what point will I, an atheist, eating at home alone, be required to say a prayer before I eat dinner?  Obviously nothing has gone that far yet, but how do I know that if we don't complain about school prayers and such that it won't eventually get to that.

I am an atheist, and I feel that I should be able to freely express my interpretation of reality without fear of reprisal. I do not use atheism as an excuse to be a bad person. I don't go door to door promoting atheism. I don't undertake efforts to get all church doors boarded up or to enact laws that would keep children out of sunday school. I'm a pretty nice guy. But I do not see any evidence of a current or past god ever existing, and I want to live my life free to assume that I am right. If god doesn't like it, he should come to my house and have a little talk with me. He knows where I live. Right?

I was watching a video today on YouTube with Ann Druyan, wife of Carl Sagan when he died. She told the story of how her father went home from college to tell his father that he was an atheist. His father was an incredibly devout Jew. When er father told his Dad, his father responded "Well, the only sin would be to pretend".

If all believers could be as accepting of those who disbelieve, we here on this site would be so bored the site would shut down. That so many are vocally against believers means that we have to band together in various ways to save not only our freedoms but perhaps also our lives.

We don't need proof that there is no god. We're not the ones claiming there is. And our individual reasons for rejecting the notion are nobodies business but our own, unless we choose to reveal it. I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing it, but I've been an atheist now for 50 years. I'm happy, I'm healthy, I'm doing just fine. It all works for me.

Its fine that you're asking the question. If this doesn't satisfy you, then you probably didn't want an answer anyway.

(Note: If you're big into the hell thing and can't understand why I would dismiss the fear of fire and brimstone stuff, bear in mind that I don't have any good reason to think it exists. I've been given the Jesus talk numerous times in my life and if I'm wrong and there is a heaven and hell, I've nobody to blame but myself (and the incompetent god who couldn't get his message across to a relatively literate adult). Don't you worry yourself about any atheist who you think might end up in hell. Its not your problem.)

I was supposed to go to bed hours ago but I got into a long phone conversation then found your question here and just had to answer it. So now I'm off to bed. Without prayer. Don't worry. I'll be fine.

P.S. Thanks for inspiring me to learn how to spell "leprechaun". It might come in handy some day.
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Offline valbernados

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2009, 01:54:21 AM »
Nice question there,
----------

Some of them believes in the theory of evolution...
But I guess they are blinded by it...

It contradicts:
1.   Law of Biogenesis: states that life can only come from other life
2.   The Law of Kinds: states that life reproduces after its own kind
3.   The Second Law of Thermo¬dynamics shows that systems left to themselves go to a condition of greater disorder, probability and randomness.
4.    The Law of Cause and Effect: every material effect must
have an adequate cause.


Please follow the links below…about how Evolution has brainwashed many….

http://www.ninetyandnine.com/Archives/20000731/cover.htm

http://areadyanswer.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/EVOLUTION_vs_SCIENTIFIC_LAW.39175118.pdf

Offline Husky

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2009, 02:03:23 AM »
Hey, I'm new to this forum...

I will skip the welcome. Since you don't really look very friendly. Or intelligent for that matter.

I do have a question for you.
I see a lot of rebuttals of Christian posts...
As atheists, what do you believe?

I believe in the following...

1) blue cockroaches
2) Superman
3) Monkey God
4) that Jesus Christ was nothing more than a schizophrenic asshole

Is there anything in the list that you do not believe in?
I believe that you believe your God is real. It's called a DELUSION.

Offline essgeeskee

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2009, 02:19:23 AM »
Fridge,
I cant show you what's true or false about your belief is... because I don't know what you believe in.
You posted that belief doesn't require proof, so, I'm lost..
Once again let me pose the question at you...
You are an atheist, an atheist believes there is no god... what proof do you have?

Hi Holybuckets. I just had to jump in here because I see a circle of questions and answers going on here.

Maybe you can read what Irish posted again when you get time to get a better understanding of why we don't need proof.

Quote from: Irish
What proof do you have there is no Zeus or Odin or the thousands of other gods neither of us believe in?

These are not standoff-ish questions but genuine replies.  Take your question of why I don't believe in your god and apply it to any other god you don't believe in.  That is the same thing I go through when examining the validity of your deity.

If you ask me, God is nothing more than a man made term which describes a theist inability to understand why we are here and where we came from. There is no proof that any God exist. There is also no proof that Zeus exist and people have accepted the fact that he was a made up character. So no proof needed to not believe in Zeus and no proof needed to not believe in God either. The burden of proof is on the person who believes.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 02:26:35 AM by essgeeskee »
Quote
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Offline bertatberts

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Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2009, 02:36:40 AM »

What evidence or proof do you have?
Evidences is not needed, (#) Atheists make no claims, they simply lack the belief you have in god/gods. devils/demons, elves/orks, dragons/unicorns etc.. or any supernatural think your mind can muster. The title Atheist is one bestowed on nonbelievers by the religious, an us them mentality.
I label myself in the positive as a realist/humanist, I am pro-human, I don't put imaginary gods before man.


(#)Proving Existence or Non-Existence.

The existence of a thing can be conclusively proved by producing one single instance of the thing.

To put that another way: -
When the existence of a thing is denied, This can be proven wrong by producing one single instance of the thing said not to exist

The non-existence of a thing can never be conclusively proved because there is always the theoretical assumption that the thing exists but has not been seen yet or it exists in a place that can not be visited. Unless all places in the universe have been visited and are being constantly observed, we can not be absolutely certain. (so no atheist states "there is no god", it would be infantile)

From this we can say that there are only two possible statements we can make about the existence of a thing:


The thing exists.

It is unknown if the thing exists or not.

It is not possible to prove that a thing "does not exist" without further qualifying criteria.

If a thing does NOT exist it can not leave any evidence of it's non-existence. Only things that DO exist can leave evidence. From this we can derive that conclusive proof can only come from the person that claims that a thing exists. It is nonsensical to demand proof of non-existence.


As an Addendum to Irish's post do you realize there are over 34,000 different christian denominations all believing in a slightly different jesus, and/or a slightly different god. there are 2.850 other gods out there and that does not include the Hindus which number in the millions. So out of all those you believe in 1, why don't you believe in any of the others, when you understand this,  you will know why there are non-believers.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 02:38:41 AM by bertatberts »
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline Wade

Re: What do Atheists believe?
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2009, 09:31:51 AM »
There may, indeed, be gods out there.  Their existence or nonexistence is irrelevant to my life. 

I find this a very interesting statement.  If there are gods out there, what purpose would they serve?  And (if we assume that these gods have some type of supernatural power) would they NOT be able to have an impact or influence on ANYONE'S life if and when they so chose?

Yes, you have the right to ignore them, and they you.  BUT, if I were a supernatural god, I'd be "messin" with people's lives something fierce - even if they chose to ignore me.