Author Topic: Love is no sin  (Read 3501 times)

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Offline Sebster51

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2009, 11:47:17 PM »
Steward, please stop posting idiotic remarks on this forum. Perhaps you are trying to convert the atheists on this site or you just like argueing. Either way you make yourself seem unintelligent and you are making Christianity seem even worse than what these people already think of it. At the very least stop trying to pick fights with people, and stop critisizing them. Remmember as a Christian you may not agree with their beliefs but you absolutely MUST respect them.

Offline ksm

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2009, 02:34:41 AM »
   It is "tyrannical" gays that are seeking to overthrow the legally voted will of the people thru "tyrannical" judges as in California.


Segregation and racism were also the legally voted will of the people at one time.

Are you claiming "tyrannical" African Americans should have just shut up, and remained sub-citizens?

Are you a racist as well as ignorant?

Offline Sheep Extreme

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2009, 02:52:04 AM »
  I agree with many people on a vast array of things.Who you date has no bearing on how I am to live my life.If you accuse me of "flushing away happiness and humanity" (wrong on both counts) because I follow the advise of my Bible as pertains to my personal Christian walk, it seems to me that I just might not be the bigot here.It is addressed to Christians , for Christians.As A Christian I've found it to be good advise for my life.
  Precisely what you are looking for, compromise, is why the passage was written in the first place.The world loves a compromised Christian.



What a tyrannical thing to say.  Stop being so tyrannical!
Theists are like Helen Keller.  Deaf, blind, and dumb.

Deaf to reason.
Blind to the truth.
And, well... just dumb.

Offline onesteward

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2009, 08:49:43 AM »
The sad thing onesteward is that you don't know what you missed.  Humanity is what is glorious.

 I haven't missed humanity at all.I've lived my life in the company of many diverse portions of it.I've companied with many wonderful people at all levels.

    To glory in humanity, to me at least, is to place too much emphasis on the temporal and too little on the eternal.The humanity with which I am aquainted is  the "fallen " version of what it should be.

   To me, God is Glorious and we see His Glory in Jesus.That is my personal belief.




When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
when sorrows like sea billows roll;
what ever my lot, you have taught me to say
it is well, it is well with my soul.

Horatio Spafford

Offline onesteward

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2009, 08:53:21 AM »
I follow the advise of my Bible as pertains to my personal Christian walk

Does that imply that there are parts of the bible that don't pertain to your "personal christian walk"?  Which parts are those?  And how do you tell which ones pertain to you and which ones don't?


 While you were a Christian for 20+ years, how did you do that?
When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
when sorrows like sea billows roll;
what ever my lot, you have taught me to say
it is well, it is well with my soul.

Horatio Spafford

Offline Hermes

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2009, 08:57:59 AM »
    To glory in humanity, to me at least, is to place too much emphasis on the temporal and too little on the eternal.The humanity with which I am aquainted is  the "fallen " version of what it should be.

   To me, God is Glorious and we see His Glory in Jesus.That is my personal belief.

There is no eternal place for 'you'.  This is the only life you get.  You loose when you cheapen it as you do.  Hate and isolation are not virtues no matter how you dress them up.

See for yourself';

For what it's worth, there is no such thing as a soul or an after life.

So far, I've had very few people challenge me on this and most just make blanket statements without offering facts.

Think about what we know.  Think about what we do not need to speculate about -- on both life and death.

1. Death is not a clear line; on one side alive, on the other completely dead. 

Death happens in stages as individual cells no longer retain integrity for a variety of reasons, often because of oxygen starvation from organ failure or trauma that prevents the blood from circulating.  Parts of us are dying and new cells are being made all the time.

2. Organ transplants.  Even when 'we' cease to be, parts of us are still coherent, allowing organ transplants.  There is even a method of blood extraction from corpses that is used occasionally.

3. All of our thoughts while we are alive are contained in a structure of neurons.  This can be seen in a variety of well documented cases from Phineas Gage through to the impacts of severing the corpus colosum and the impacts of traumas such as strokes and alzheimers as well as the structures found that map nerves to a variety of tasks and thoughts.

4. When people start to die, the brain is frequently one of the last organs to be starved of oxygen.

5. The 'tunnel of light' is caused by the visual cortex loosing oxygen and the remaining parts of the brain attempting to deal with that.  The same 'tunnel' can be simulated.  Pilots experience this when they use a centrifuge under high G forces for training or to test new gear.  Both these are documented and can be duplicated with the proper equipment and/or circumstances.

6. People who live after being through this oxygen starvation tell stories based on their brain's attempt to deal with the stress.  They talk about 'flash backs', they talk about 'stepping outside' of themselves and seeing themselves.  The same thing the pilots in the centrifuges report.

7. The more time the brain or any organ is starved, the more damage.

8. People don't act any differently from more damage (that brings them closer to complete death and thus an 'afterlife') then other victims of brain damage.

9. When cell death is complete, there is nothing to store 'them'.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Airyaman

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2009, 09:04:03 AM »
Sodomy has always been considered reprobate behavior by the majority of society.

Just curious, but why do you think your god gave men a prostate which can be stimulated via anal penetration?
If you are following God why can I still see you?

Offline Hermes

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2009, 09:10:35 AM »
Sodomy has always been considered reprobate behavior by the majority of society.

Just curious, but why do you think your god gave men a prostate which can be stimulated via anal penetration?

A gift to lonely priests, perhaps?
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline dmnemaine

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2009, 09:44:41 AM »
While you were a Christian for 20+ years, how did you do that?

When I was a christian, I believed that the entire bible pertained to me.  I didn't choose which parts were for me and which parts weren't.  So I didn't "do that".  Your question is meaningless, except as a way to avoid answering mine.

Offline onesteward

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2009, 10:41:24 AM »
Posted on: Today at 09:10:35 AMPosted by: Hermes
Quote
There is no eternal place for 'you'.

 Of course, as a Christian, I know there is an eternal place for everyone.
Quote
   This is the only life you get.

  You must know that as a Christian I don't believe that."Born once...die twice, Born twice ...die once "

Quote
  You loose when you cheapen it as you do.

  I don't find it cheap at all.Humanity is so valuable that Christ died for it.

 
Quote
Hate and isolation are not virtues no matter how you dress them up.

   Of course not.That is why we (Christians) are commanded to "Love our enemies" and to "Do good to those that despitefully use you".

Quote
  See for yourself';..........

 Natural processes.I believe in the supernatural.I believe in the resurrection of the dead.Even the seas give up their dead and those dead are basically crab food.


When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
when sorrows like sea billows roll;
what ever my lot, you have taught me to say
it is well, it is well with my soul.

Horatio Spafford

Offline onesteward

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2009, 10:49:59 AM »
While you were a Christian for 20+ years, how did you do that?

When I was a christian, I believed that the entire bible pertained to me.  I didn't choose which parts were for me and which parts weren't.  So I didn't "do that".  Your question is meaningless, except as a way to avoid answering mine.

 I don't feel that my statement should have led you to the conclusion that I ' cherry-pick' the Scriptures.If it did it wasn't intended to.


 
When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
when sorrows like sea billows roll;
what ever my lot, you have taught me to say
it is well, it is well with my soul.

Horatio Spafford

Offline dmnemaine

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2009, 10:52:04 AM »

 I don't feel that my statement should have led you to the conclusion that I ' cherry-pick' the Scriptures.If it did it wasn't intended to.

Okay, then you believe all "scripture" to be pertinent to you?

« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 11:38:33 AM by dmnemaine »

Offline Buster Fixxitt

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2009, 10:52:11 AM »
  dmnemaine,

There is no way to to have sodomy other than "oral" or "anal" the only choices available for gays.

Your obvious desire to clean it up notwithstanding, the filthy sodomy lifestyle is the reason the centers for disease control state that gays lead the way in the spreading of the disease dept.

Two words, Steward.

1. Frottage

2. Meatatomy

Alright, I'll throw a third one in for free.

3. Bigot
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Offline Hermes

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2009, 11:02:47 AM »
Natural processes.I believe in the supernatural.I believe in the resurrection of the dead.Even the seas give up their dead and those dead are basically crab food.

I'll take it you see no flaws in what I wrote, but you consider some kind of extra layer on top of it where magic happens.

If so, explain how "you" get from your body to somewhere else?

Note: No special religious dogma, just facts that Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, and non-religious people can agree on.  If you can't, I'll take your silence as an admission that you've got nothing and you concede I was entirely correct and that there is no afterlife or souls.



For reference;

See for yourself';

For what it's worth, there is no such thing as a soul or an after life.

So far, I've had very few people challenge me on this and most just make blanket statements without offering facts.

Think about what we know.  Think about what we do not need to speculate about -- on both life and death.

1. Death is not a clear line; on one side alive, on the other completely dead. 

Death happens in stages as individual cells no longer retain integrity for a variety of reasons, often because of oxygen starvation from organ failure or trauma that prevents the blood from circulating.  Parts of us are dying and new cells are being made all the time.

2. Organ transplants.  Even when 'we' cease to be, parts of us are still coherent, allowing organ transplants.  There is even a method of blood extraction from corpses that is used occasionally.

3. All of our thoughts while we are alive are contained in a structure of neurons.  This can be seen in a variety of well documented cases from Phineas Gage through to the impacts of severing the corpus colosum and the impacts of traumas such as strokes and alzheimers as well as the structures found that map nerves to a variety of tasks and thoughts.

4. When people start to die, the brain is frequently one of the last organs to be starved of oxygen.

5. The 'tunnel of light' is caused by the visual cortex loosing oxygen and the remaining parts of the brain attempting to deal with that.  The same 'tunnel' can be simulated.  Pilots experience this when they use a centrifuge under high G forces for training or to test new gear.  Both these are documented and can be duplicated with the proper equipment and/or circumstances.

6. People who live after being through this oxygen starvation tell stories based on their brain's attempt to deal with the stress.  They talk about 'flash backs', they talk about 'stepping outside' of themselves and seeing themselves.  The same thing the pilots in the centrifuges report.

7. The more time the brain or any organ is starved, the more damage.

8. People don't act any differently from more damage (that brings them closer to complete death and thus an 'afterlife') then other victims of brain damage.

9. When cell death is complete, there is nothing to store 'them'.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Buster Fixxitt

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2009, 11:04:45 AM »
To glory in humanity, to me at least, is to place too much emphasis on the temporal and too little on the eternal.The humanity with which I am aquainted is  the "fallen " version of what it should be.

This thinking always disturbs me.  It's the type of reasoning that leads to environmental destruction, etc.  Why bother to try and preserve the environment when the Rapture is so imminent?

We can only be certain of having one life, this one.  I'm bothered by those who would rather focus on an uncertain and unknowable 'eternal' life, rather than making the most of the life they certainly have here on earth.
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Offline Airyaman

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2009, 12:04:22 PM »

 Of course, as a Christian, I know believe there is an eternal place for everyone.

Fixed.

Quote
I don't find it cheap at all.Humanity is so valuable that Christ died for it.

The only thing that died was the flesh tent he inhabited. According to the myth, he was raised again a couple of days later. IOW, "Jesus had a really bad weekend for our sins".

Quote
Of course not.That is why we (Christians) are commanded to "Love our enemies" and to "Do good to those that despitefully use you".

Too bad we don't actually see these things being put into practice. Perhaps because they are impractical.
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Offline onesteward

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2009, 12:05:24 PM »

 I don't feel that my statement should have led you to the conclusion that I ' cherry-pick' the Scriptures.If it did it wasn't intended to.

Okay, then you believe all "scripture" to be pertinent to you?




 I believe all Scripture is pertinent.I don't think it all relates to me personally.
When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
when sorrows like sea billows roll;
what ever my lot, you have taught me to say
it is well, it is well with my soul.

Horatio Spafford

Offline onesteward

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2009, 12:10:19 PM »
Posted on: Today at 12:04:22 PMPosted by: Airyaman

Quote from: onesteward on Today at 10:41:24 AM
Quote
Of course, as a Christian, I know believe there is an eternal place for everyone.
Quote
Fixed.

Of course, as a Christian, I know there is an eternal place for everyone.

 Now it's fixed. Thanks for trying though.
When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
when sorrows like sea billows roll;
what ever my lot, you have taught me to say
it is well, it is well with my soul.

Horatio Spafford

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2009, 12:15:28 PM »
Christian humility on display for all to see.

"I am absolutely right and everyone else is wrong"

"the things I believe in my part of the planet are absolutely true and what everyone born elsewhere believes is abolutely wrong"

Most of the significantly disgusting acts in history have happened because of this pathetic inclination.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline dmnemaine

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2009, 12:15:42 PM »
I believe all Scripture is pertinent.I don't think it all relates to me personally.

Quote

pertinent

–adjective
pertaining or relating directly and significantly to the matter at hand

Your statement is a contradiction.  If you don't think that all scripture relates to you personally, then by definition you don't believe that all scripture is pertinent.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 12:17:21 PM by dmnemaine »

Offline onesteward

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2009, 12:19:29 PM »
I believe all Scripture is pertinent.I don't think it all relates to me personally.

Quote

pertinent

–adjective
pertaining or relating directly and significantly to the matter at hand

Your statement is a contradiction.  If you don't think that all scripture relates to you personally, then by definition you don't believe that all scripture is pertinent.


 Scriptures that give instruction to Pastors for example don't realate to me personally.I'm not a Pastor.
When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
when sorrows like sea billows roll;
what ever my lot, you have taught me to say
it is well, it is well with my soul.

Horatio Spafford

Offline Airyaman

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2009, 12:40:41 PM »
Of course, as a Christian, I know there is an eternal place for everyone.

 Now it's fixed. Thanks for trying though.

Sorry, without evidence, you can only believe.
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Offline onesteward

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2009, 12:46:40 PM »
Posted on: Today at 12:04:22 PMPosted by: Airyaman
Quote
Too bad we don't actually see these things being put into practice. Perhaps because they are impractical

  There are places where they are practiced. I read testimonies from areas of the world where Christians are persecuted for their belief and Christian character seems to be prevalent amongst the believers there.

 I don't know if it is impractical as much as that it requires dicipline.
Selflessness is much more difficult than selfishness.
When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
when sorrows like sea billows roll;
what ever my lot, you have taught me to say
it is well, it is well with my soul.

Horatio Spafford

Offline dmnemaine

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2009, 01:01:48 PM »
Scriptures that give instruction to Pastors for example don't realate to me personally.I'm not a Pastor.

Okay.  I see your distinction now.  

Otherwise, you believe that passages directly addressed to believers relate to you personally?

In Luke 14:26, Jesus commands believers to hate their families and themselves.  Do you hate your family?  Do you hate yourself?  It's very clear and to the point.  Jesus commands believers to hate.  Seeing as how that speaks to you personally as a believer, you should be hating your family and yourself.

In Mark 10:21 Jesus tells the man who asks how to inherit eternal life that he must sell all he has and give to the poor.  I suppose that is for you personally too because you want eternal life, right?  Looks like you should be selling everything you have and giving to the poor.  Have you done this yet?  Jesus made a clear, unambiguous statement here.  

You may come back with "those verses aren't to be taken literally" or "you're taking them out of context".

If they aren't to be taken literally, why should we assume that the II Corinthians passage about being unequally yoked should be taken literally, and how do you decide which ones to take literally and which ones not to?

As far as context goes, the context of the passages they come from support a literal reading of them.  There is no contextual reason to assume that they mean anything other than what they say.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 01:03:50 PM by dmnemaine »

Offline onesteward

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2009, 03:28:17 PM »
Natural processes.I believe in the supernatural.I believe in the resurrection of the dead.Even the seas give up their dead and those dead are basically crab food.
[/color]
Quote
I'll take it you see no flaws in what I wrote, but you consider some kind of extra layer on top of it where magic happens.

  I believe that we are resurrected from death.The Bible teaches it, Christ demonstrated it.
Quote
If so, explain how "you" get from your body to somewhere else?

Note: No special religious dogma, just facts that Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, and non-religious people can agree on.  If you can't, I'll take your silence as an admission that you've got nothing and you concede I was entirely correct and that there is no afterlife or souls.

 A supernatural event such as we are discussing is explained by religion.If you put a group of Hindus,Buddhists,Muslims, Christians and non- religious people together in a room we couldn't even agree on what toppings to order on our Pizza never mind the processes of the spirit after death.

If it somehow makes you feel better about yourself to declare some sort of victory here, by all means do so.


For reference;

See for yourself';

For what it's worth, there is no such thing as a soul or an after life.

So far, I've had very few people challenge me on this and most just make blanket statements without offering facts.

Think about what we know.  Think about what we do not need to speculate about -- on both life and death.

1. Death is not a clear line; on one side alive, on the other completely dead. 

Death happens in stages as individual cells no longer retain integrity for a variety of reasons, often because of oxygen starvation from organ failure or trauma that prevents the blood from circulating.  Parts of us are dying and new cells are being made all the time.

2. Organ transplants.  Even when 'we' cease to be, parts of us are still coherent, allowing organ transplants.  There is even a method of blood extraction from corpses that is used occasionally.

3. All of our thoughts while we are alive are contained in a structure of neurons.  This can be seen in a variety of well documented cases from Phineas Gage through to the impacts of severing the corpus colosum and the impacts of traumas such as strokes and alzheimers as well as the structures found that map nerves to a variety of tasks and thoughts.

4. When people start to die, the brain is frequently one of the last organs to be starved of oxygen.

5. The 'tunnel of light' is caused by the visual cortex loosing oxygen and the remaining parts of the brain attempting to deal with that.  The same 'tunnel' can be simulated.  Pilots experience this when they use a centrifuge under high G forces for training or to test new gear.  Both these are documented and can be duplicated with the proper equipment and/or circumstances.

6. People who live after being through this oxygen starvation tell stories based on their brain's attempt to deal with the stress.  They talk about 'flash backs', they talk about 'stepping outside' of themselves and seeing themselves.  The same thing the pilots in the centrifuges report.

7. The more time the brain or any organ is starved, the more damage.

8. People don't act any differently from more damage (that brings them closer to complete death and thus an 'afterlife') then other victims of brain damage.

9. When cell death is complete, there is nothing to store 'them'.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 07:57:24 AM by onesteward »
When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
when sorrows like sea billows roll;
what ever my lot, you have taught me to say
it is well, it is well with my soul.

Horatio Spafford

Offline kevyrat69

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2009, 05:17:41 PM »
Natural processes.I believe in the supernatural.I believe in the resurrection of the dead.Even the seas give up their dead and those dead are basically crab food.

I'll take it you see no flaws in what I wrote, but you consider some kind of extra layer on top of it where magic happens.

If so, explain how "you" get from your body to somewhere else?

Note: No special religious dogma, just facts that Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, and non-religious people can agree on.  If you can't, I'll take your silence as an admission that you've got nothing and you concede I was entirely correct and that there is no afterlife or souls.



For reference;

See for yourself';

For what it's worth, there is no such thing as a soul or an after life.

So far, I've had very few people challenge me on this and most just make blanket statements without offering facts.

Think about what we know.  Think about what we do not need to speculate about -- on both life and death.

1. Death is not a clear line; on one side alive, on the other completely dead. 

Death happens in stages as individual cells no longer retain integrity for a variety of reasons, often because of oxygen starvation from organ failure or trauma that prevents the blood from circulating.  Parts of us are dying and new cells are being made all the time.

2. Organ transplants.  Even when 'we' cease to be, parts of us are still coherent, allowing organ transplants.  There is even a method of blood extraction from corpses that is used occasionally.

3. All of our thoughts while we are alive are contained in a structure of neurons.  This can be seen in a variety of well documented cases from Phineas Gage through to the impacts of severing the corpus colosum and the impacts of traumas such as strokes and alzheimers as well as the structures found that map nerves to a variety of tasks and thoughts.

4. When people start to die, the brain is frequently one of the last organs to be starved of oxygen.

5. The 'tunnel of light' is caused by the visual cortex loosing oxygen and the remaining parts of the brain attempting to deal with that.  The same 'tunnel' can be simulated.  Pilots experience this when they use a centrifuge under high G forces for training or to test new gear.  Both these are documented and can be duplicated with the proper equipment and/or circumstances.

6. People who live after being through this oxygen starvation tell stories based on their brain's attempt to deal with the stress.  They talk about 'flash backs', they talk about 'stepping outside' of themselves and seeing themselves.  The same thing the pilots in the centrifuges report.

7. The more time the brain or any organ is starved, the more damage.

8. People don't act any differently from more damage (that brings them closer to complete death and thus an 'afterlife') then other victims of brain damage.

9. When cell death is complete, there is nothing to store 'them'.

With this kind of death happening as you put it in 9 easy steps, How can this happen for Jesus to have come back?  I mean since death so sure after so many hours and yet we don't even know if any of this happened?  Oh wait, Steward and Onesteward have faith they don't need to use the thought process any more to figure it out because faith is the answer to something they know isn't really true.  Oh wait they have to turn off reason too.

Good job you guys.  Glad that is working for you.
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

whatever people are experiencing when they experience God, it's not something they're perceiving in the external world. It's something their brains are making up.
Greta Christina

Offline Hermes

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2009, 05:26:04 PM »
Please de-tangle your response.  I can't figure out if you said anything.

Natural processes.I believe in the supernatural.I believe in the resurrection of the dead.Even the seas give up their dead and those dead are basically crab food.
Quote
I'll take it you see no flaws in what I wrote, but you consider some kind of extra layer on top of it where magic happens.

  I believe that we are resurrected from death.The Bible teaches it, Christ demonstrated it.
Quote
If so, explain how "you" get from your body to somewhere else?

Note: No special religious dogma, just facts that Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, and non-religious people can agree on.  If you can't, I'll take your silence as an admission that you've got nothing and you concede I was entirely correct and that there is no afterlife or souls.

 A supernatural event such as we are discussing is explained by religion.If you put a group of Hindus,Buddhists,Muslims, Christians and non- religious people together in a room we couldn't even agree on what toppings to order on our Pizza never mind the processes of the spirit after death.

 If it somehow makes you feel better about yourself to declare some sort of victory here, by all means do so.



For reference;

See for yourself';

For what it's worth, there is no such thing as a soul or an after life.

So far, I've had very few people challenge me on this and most just make blanket statements without offering facts.

Think about what we know.  Think about what we do not need to speculate about -- on both life and death.

1. Death is not a clear line; on one side alive, on the other completely dead. 

Death happens in stages as individual cells no longer retain integrity for a variety of reasons, often because of oxygen starvation from organ failure or trauma that prevents the blood from circulating.  Parts of us are dying and new cells are being made all the time.

2. Organ transplants.  Even when 'we' cease to be, parts of us are still coherent, allowing organ transplants.  There is even a method of blood extraction from corpses that is used occasionally.

3. All of our thoughts while we are alive are contained in a structure of neurons.  This can be seen in a variety of well documented cases from Phineas Gage through to the impacts of severing the corpus colosum and the impacts of traumas such as strokes and alzheimers as well as the structures found that map nerves to a variety of tasks and thoughts.

4. When people start to die, the brain is frequently one of the last organs to be starved of oxygen.

5. The 'tunnel of light' is caused by the visual cortex loosing oxygen and the remaining parts of the brain attempting to deal with that.  The same 'tunnel' can be simulated.  Pilots experience this when they use a centrifuge under high G forces for training or to test new gear.  Both these are documented and can be duplicated with the proper equipment and/or circumstances.

6. People who live after being through this oxygen starvation tell stories based on their brain's attempt to deal with the stress.  They talk about 'flash backs', they talk about 'stepping outside' of themselves and seeing themselves.  The same thing the pilots in the centrifuges report.

7. The more time the brain or any organ is starved, the more damage.

8. People don't act any differently from more damage (that brings them closer to complete death and thus an 'afterlife') then other victims of brain damage.

9. When cell death is complete, there is nothing to store 'them'.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline ksm

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2009, 02:57:37 AM »
   It is "tyrannical" gays that are seeking to overthrow the legally voted will of the people thru "tyrannical" judges as in California.


Segregation and racism were also the legally voted will of the people at one time.

Are you claiming "tyrannical" African Americans should have just shut up, and remained sub-citizens?

Are you a racist as well as ignorant?

Steward, no comment about how your argument fails at the most basic level?

Offline onesteward

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Re: Love is no sin
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2009, 08:02:54 AM »
Posted on: Yesterday at 05:26:04 PMPosted by: Hermes
Quote
Please de-tangle your response.  I can't figure out if you said anything.

 I've edited response # 53. Hopefully it is less confusing now.
When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
when sorrows like sea billows roll;
what ever my lot, you have taught me to say
it is well, it is well with my soul.

Horatio Spafford