Author Topic: Falsehearted "Former Christians"  (Read 13063 times)

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Offline steward

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Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« on: December 23, 2008, 10:18:57 PM »
              It is evident on this website that many claim to have been once "christians".

They are all liars,and will prove themselves to be so.


Jesus, the author and finisher of the faith said:


                 "If God were your Father , ye would love me...."

                                 (John 8:42)

Not one of these so called "former christians" have ever, or will ever,express why they once loved Jesus?

Because they never did.

Proving by their own manifest lack of love for Him that they never believed Him to begin with.





"I commend my soul into the hands of God my Creator,hoping and assuredly believing,through the merits of Jesus Christ my Savior,to be made partaker of life everlasting,and my body to the earth,whereof it is made."
                    (Last Will & Testament, William Shakespeare)

Offline JII

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2008, 10:24:09 PM »
Have we told you what we think about scripture regurgitation around here sewerhead?

The tyranny of scripture - Pat Condell

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Offline Vynn

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2008, 10:35:22 PM »
Boy, i sure wish i had never been a christian, but to my everlasting shame and embarrassment, i was for almost 30 years. ::sigh::

By the way, i hold that there's no such thing as a "christian" because there's no Holy Spirit to do any "indwelling". How's that?

Offline xTigerx

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2008, 10:37:48 PM »
Trying to play the guilt card, eh?

I don't care if you think I wasn't a True ChristianTM or not.  Doesn't change the fact that Christianity is bullshit.
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Offline steward

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2008, 10:39:49 PM »
Boy, i sure wish i had never been a christian, but to my everlasting shame and embarrassment, i was for almost 30 years. ::sigh::

By the way, i hold that there's no such thing as a "christian" because there's no Holy Spirit to do any "indwelling". How's that?



    Where's the love that used to be?

Told you there would be not one who could express it.
"I commend my soul into the hands of God my Creator,hoping and assuredly believing,through the merits of Jesus Christ my Savior,to be made partaker of life everlasting,and my body to the earth,whereof it is made."
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Offline Vynn

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2008, 10:41:22 PM »
    Where's the love that used to be?

Told you there would be not one who could express it.

What? My post didn't express love or hate or anything else. It was merely a statement.

Offline superfly

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2008, 10:42:09 PM »

Not one of these so called "former christians" have ever, or will ever,express why they once loved Jesus?

Because they never did.

Proving by their own manifest lack of love for Him that they never believed Him to begin with.

what difference would it make if someone expressed that they once "loved" jesus, and now do not?

i used to love my ex-wife. i don't now.
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
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Offline steward

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2008, 10:47:13 PM »

What? My post didn't express love or hate or anything else. It was merely a statement.


  "merely a statement"  that "didn't express love" for this Jesus who is the Christ, is all a former falsehearted christian can do.

You quite literally can never express your former love for Christ, because it never existed.
"I commend my soul into the hands of God my Creator,hoping and assuredly believing,through the merits of Jesus Christ my Savior,to be made partaker of life everlasting,and my body to the earth,whereof it is made."
                    (Last Will & Testament, William Shakespeare)

Offline xTigerx

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2008, 10:53:00 PM »

What? My post didn't express love or hate or anything else. It was merely a statement.


  "merely a statement"  that "didn't express love" for this Jesus who is the Christ, is all a former falsehearted christian can do.

You quite literally can never express your former love for Christ, because it never existed.

You can't express former love, period.

Hence FORMER.

No wonder Christians are 'not of this world'.  If y'all were, it would be sad.
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Offline Husky

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2008, 10:53:27 PM »
I am not a former christian, but a former taoist. I am guessing it goes something like this.

They (former Christians) used to love Jesus. Then one day (or over time) they realised hey, Jesus* is Imaginary! Which is why NOW they can't express their love for Jesus. You can't love something that doesn't exist. Much as you can't feel/see/touch/hear something that doesn't exist. Unless you are deluded of course.

*For the purpose of this discussion. Jesus is defined as the son of God with REAL powers and Godlike abilities. Some Jew (who was possibly schizophrenic) and claims to be the son of God but somehow died like a typical mortal is not Jesus, merely someone who thought he was Jesus.

I am hypothesising that Jesus doesn't exist. Cos from the bible, Jesus appeared to be a cruel and petty person. By that account, he would have made my computer explode as I am typing this... If you somehow managed to read this, dude... where's your Jesus as we speak?
I believe that you believe your God is real. It's called a DELUSION.

Offline steward

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2008, 10:54:48 PM »


what difference would it make if someone expressed that they once "loved" jesus, and now do not?

i used to love my ex-wife. i don't now.


  You don't know why you once loved her don't you?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 11:01:43 PM by steward »
"I commend my soul into the hands of God my Creator,hoping and assuredly believing,through the merits of Jesus Christ my Savior,to be made partaker of life everlasting,and my body to the earth,whereof it is made."
                    (Last Will & Testament, William Shakespeare)

Offline Vynn

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2008, 10:58:34 PM »
  "merely a statement"  that "didn't express love" for this Jesus who is the Christ, is all a former falsehearted christian can do.

Oh, so you've predetermined what i can and can't do?


You quite literally can never express your former love for Christ, because it never existed.

I'm fairly certain i could, but then again i'm fairly certain you'd find a way to discount that expression, too. Tell me, if i were to express my "former love for christ", would you be honest enough to admit that it "existed", or would you be so cowardly as to dodge it, and claim that it was "wrong" for one reason or another?

Offline steward

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2008, 11:00:45 PM »
I am not a former christian, but a former taoist. I am guessing it goes something like this.

They (former Christians) used to love Jesus. Then one day (or over time) they realised hey, Jesus* is Imaginary!


    Husky,
 If being "Imaginary" caused someone to no longer love Him, does it stand to reason that something else was responsible for the beginning of this love?
"I commend my soul into the hands of God my Creator,hoping and assuredly believing,through the merits of Jesus Christ my Savior,to be made partaker of life everlasting,and my body to the earth,whereof it is made."
                    (Last Will & Testament, William Shakespeare)

Offline gold_digging_ants

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2008, 11:03:37 PM »

                 "If God were your Father , ye would love me...."

                                 (John 8:42)

Not one of these so called "former christians" have ever, or will ever,express why they once loved Jesus?

Because they never did.

Proving by their own manifest lack of love for Him that they never believed Him to begin with.

If I believed god were my father, I would make an effort to love him.  Problem is, I've had my share of abusive relationships and I'm not that keen to return to that one.

God is not my father, so I don't have to love God or Jesus, according to your book.  (Incidentally, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone declares that Peeves the Poltergeist was scared of the Bloody Baron- a claim I view on the same terms as anything you quote to me from scripture).

And I could explain to you my "relationship" with your god, as I saw it, how I felt, and the ways in which I loved him/ them and expressed that love, but I don't see that it's worth reliving for your benefit.  

And has already been said, I loved previous boyfriends and girlfriends, but I no longer do.  I could express my love for them, and for Jesus.  It's just that, in the case of some of my relationships, my love was based on a lie.  As was also the case for my faith.
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Offline Apotheosis

Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2008, 11:04:26 PM »
*Clicks on "Show unread posts since last visit"*

...

Really? This thread's it?  :(

Offline superfly

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2008, 11:05:59 PM »
Dear Jesus,

i believed in you at one point in my life. i even loved you (not the eros kind or philos but AGAPE).
my family (Jewish) disowned me because of my love for you. i tried to convince others that you were real and that if they believed in you and believed that you shed your blood and died for our sins that we would have eternal salvation, and not burn for an eternity in heck.

after many years of reading and praying i came to the conclusion that you and your dad don't exist.

no regards whatsoever,

a former employee
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
Kurt Vonnegut

Offline superfly

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2008, 11:08:43 PM »


what difference would it make if someone expressed that they once "loved" jesus, and now do not?

i used to love my ex-wife. i don't now.


  You don't know why you once loved her don't you?

yes i do. so what.
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
Kurt Vonnegut

Offline Husky

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2008, 11:08:59 PM »

    Husky,
 If being "Imaginary" caused someone to no longer love Him, does it stand to reason that something else was responsible for the beginning of this love?

I think I know where this is heading...  ::) You want me to conclude because they used to love God, there must be a God. Ever heard of the term circular reasoning?

I used to love Santa. Later as I grew up, I learnt that Santa doesn't exist. What caused me to love him from the start? Ignorance?
I believe that you believe your God is real. It's called a DELUSION.

Offline Apotheosis

Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2008, 11:12:24 PM »
              It is evident on this website that many claim to have been once "christians".

They are all liars,and will prove themselves to be so.

Nuh uh.

Jesus, the author and finisher of the faith said:

Uh, we're atheists, bub. Why would we give a toss about anything Jesus said?

Not one of these so called "former christians" have ever, or will ever,express why they once loved Jesus?

Because my pastor told me Jesus would send me to his torture chamber, after I died, if I didn't.

FACT: Threatening someone with eternal torment is a great way to win their affection. Their trembling, wide-eyed affection.

Offline Hermes

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2008, 11:13:13 PM »
Steward, my sweet innocent chew toy, how do you get over your countless humiliations here?  It is remarkable, unless you are not aware of your status, then it is just sad.  

To the topic you posted; if it makes you blush like a school girl, so be it; I figured out at a very early age that supernaturalism is bupkees ... and I've yet to hear of any natural god.  

So, was I ever a Christian?  If it makes you squeal and jump up and down in delight to claim I was not, I have no problem with that ... nor do I have any problem with being accused of being in your theological ranks either if a child can really be in a religion.  The good news is that I snapped out of it before becoming as you are now.  I have the same basic position on other religions and cults as well.

After all, I used to think that aliens were flying around in the sky and that dragons must be real - when I was around 5 years old.  Yet, between the two of us, you are the only one that today defends a book with dragons and unicorns in it; because you think it speaks of reality!

As for many of the others here, I have no doubt that they speak honestly for themselves.  Some were about as mistaken as you are now ... some a little less, some a bit more.  Yet, they were strong enough to break the spell and acknowledge what is real.  

If you choose to be a bigot and reject what they say without knowledge, then go right ahead.  Your interest in doing so only affirms how deeply you fear what Agnes Bojaxhiu knew in her heart and admitted to others but was too lacking in honest introspection to commit to; there are no incorporeal spirits guiding our lives or asking to be placated.  We are wonderful as humans, full stop.

So, think what you want.  Your insights on apostates are as good as those of any fervent Mormon, Muslim, or Scientologist. You could say they were gospel -- and I'd agree with you, though you may be puzzled at my deeply satisfying laugh.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline steward

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2008, 11:13:58 PM »
  "merely a statement"  that "didn't express love" for this Jesus who is the Christ, is all a former falsehearted christian can do.

Oh, so you've predetermined what i can and can't do?


You quite literally can never express your former love for Christ, because it never existed.

I'm fairly certain i could, but then again i'm fairly certain you'd find a way to discount that expression, too. Tell me, if i were to express my "former love for christ", would you be honest enough to admit that it "existed", or would you be so cowardly as to dodge it, and claim that it was "wrong" for one reason or another?

        Vynn,
 The same Jesus that says we "would love Him"  also states "why" we would love Him.

Its all in black ink on white paper.

Of course being a "former christian" I guess you must have forgotten that particular teaching of Jesus?

The measure of whether your,or anybody's professed love for Christ corresponds with what Christ says should form the basis for said love, is Christ words.

 Not mine.

"I commend my soul into the hands of God my Creator,hoping and assuredly believing,through the merits of Jesus Christ my Savior,to be made partaker of life everlasting,and my body to the earth,whereof it is made."
                    (Last Will & Testament, William Shakespeare)

Offline gold_digging_ants

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2008, 11:17:50 PM »
Steward, my sweet innocent chew toy, how do you get over your countless humiliations here?  It is remarkable, unless you are not aware of your status, then it is just sad.  
If you choose to be a bigot and reject what they say without knowledge, then go right ahead.  Your interest in doing so only affirms how deeply you fear what Agnes Bojaxhiu knew in her heart and admitted to others but was too lacking in honest introspection to commit to; there are no incorporeal spirits guiding our lives or asking to be placated.  We are wonderful as humans, full stop.

Quoted for truth value.  Well said.
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Offline steward

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2008, 11:21:14 PM »

    Husky,
 If being "Imaginary" caused someone to no longer love Him, does it stand to reason that something else was responsible for the beginning of this love?

I think I know where this is heading...  ::) You want me to conclude because they used to love God, there must be a God. Ever heard of the term circular reasoning?

I used to love Santa. Later as I grew up, I learnt that Santa doesn't exist. What caused me to love him from the start? Ignorance?


  I to was enthralled with Santa.

Although I can't say I "loved" him.

The point is that there was a concrete reason that I could state which formed the basis for my affections, gifts, and lots of them.

Why did you not mention what formed the basis for your love for santa?

Are you saying if you never received any gift from him you would still have loved him?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 11:25:05 PM by steward »
"I commend my soul into the hands of God my Creator,hoping and assuredly believing,through the merits of Jesus Christ my Savior,to be made partaker of life everlasting,and my body to the earth,whereof it is made."
                    (Last Will & Testament, William Shakespeare)

Offline Vynn

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2008, 11:23:16 PM »
       Vynn,
 The same Jesus that says we "would love Him"  also states "why" we would love Him.

No, it's just what somebody at some point wrote in a book. Because it's written in a book, and with words, it can't be "total truth". Any English teacher who understands the concept of deconstruction can help you with this concept.


Its all in black ink on white paper.

Yes. Something being written down doesn't make it true. Do you believe the Koran? It's written in black ink on white paper!!


Of course being a "former christian" I guess you must have forgotten that particular teaching of Jesus?

Are you trying to insinuate something here?


The measure of whether your,or anybody's professed love for Christ corresponds with what Christ says should form the basis for said love, is Christ words.

I have no idea. I'm not a christian. When i was, i would have professed "love" for him. Not that i don't believe, i don't. It's fairly easy to understand, i think. As i said before, if you like i can rummage through some of my old notes and pull out a quote from when i was a christian that will show you how much i "loved" your imaginary jesus, but before i do that i need you to answer my questions. Why didn't you answer the two questions i asked you? Are you planning to dodge the issue when somebody does manage to express to you how and why they loved jesus when they don't anymore?

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2008, 11:24:33 PM »
steward:  This is a very common comment from christians. What is really going on here with this sort of statement though is the refusal or denial that your supernatural beliefs about reality could even be false. Yes, there was something in my life that made me jettison christianity; it was the rarely employed combination of critical, skeptical, rational thinking, and honesty which made those ridiculous beliefs crumble.
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Offline gold_digging_ants

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2008, 11:25:41 PM »
I feel this will end up in the Bottomless Pit fairly quickly.
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Offline Vynn

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2008, 11:26:25 PM »
steward:  This is a very common comment from christians. What is really going on here with this sort of statement though is the refusal or denial that your supernatural beliefs about reality could even be false. Yes, there was something in my life that made me jettison christianity; it was the rarely employed combination of critical, skeptical, rational thinking, and honesty which made those ridiculous beliefs crumble.



The other problem steward has is that his own bible says that christians can fall away from the truth. So sad...

Offline Husky

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2008, 11:28:20 PM »
   
I to was enthralled with Santa.

Although I can't say I "loved" him.

The point is that there was a concrete reason that I could state which formed the basis for my affections, gifts, and lots of them.

Why did you not mention what formed the basis for your love for santa?

Are you saying if you never received any gift from him you would still have loved him?

Yes. It was those gifts... No I will not love him if not for those gifts. Honestly, NO. What is the point you are trying to make? That you love Jesus no matter what? And that is true love? I hope you have a happy one sided love affair with Jesus.  ;)

I love Santa cos I "felt" his love for me. Love comes in many forms. Presents is one of them. Superficial, yes. But it's a fact. I never felt any love from Jesus/God. Threatening to send me to hell doesn't feel like love to me. Sending deluded people like you to me is even worse.
I believe that you believe your God is real. It's called a DELUSION.

Offline steward

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Re: Falsehearted "Former Christians"
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2008, 11:29:38 PM »

 Are you planning to dodge the issue when somebody does manage to express to you how and why they loved jesus when they don't anymore?


   Vynn,

Why are you afraid to find out?

Why don't you man up and give it a try?

Or would you rather not discuss it?
"I commend my soul into the hands of God my Creator,hoping and assuredly believing,through the merits of Jesus Christ my Savior,to be made partaker of life everlasting,and my body to the earth,whereof it is made."
                    (Last Will & Testament, William Shakespeare)