Author Topic: Why won't God heal amputees? Because he can make you win at life without it.  (Read 12278 times)

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Offline screwtape

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joining this thread late (my first post) ...

Welcome to our forum.


However, consider for a moment that this life is just one of many. That is, reincarnation.

That's a pretty flipping big IF, don't you think?  I'd say you need to connect the dots, because you've not gotten from here to there yet.


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Welcome acturbo

Since the idea of reincarnation is just that, an idea, sans evidence, methinks I'll just assume that we don't get reincarnated. If I'm wrong, I can pretend otherwise in the afterlife. I know how to sound cool, even when dead.  ;D

In the meantime, I would rather assume life is a one time shot and have have empathy for others, rather than guess that we do this a lot and care far less about injustice and inequality.

I'd rather be right while being wrong than wrong while being right.
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Offline lotanddaughters

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joining this thread late (my first post) ...

If we think that the material world is all there is, and that there is nothing after death, then yes, it would appear that God not healing an amputee (or allowing it to happen in the first place) is terrible and makes no sense. This naturally leads to hating God and/or not believing etc. Completely understandable. And if people are convinced that there is only one life, and nothing happens after this life (or possibly, we have one life and then get judged on where we spend eternity), then i see virtually no argument that could answer the original questions adequately. It would lead to atheism being the only logical conclusion.

However, consider for a moment that this life is just one of many. That is, reincarnation. So, each life becomes a lesson designed to grow the real you, the soul. And, under this concept, if you consider having millions of lifetime experiences, then experiencing one or more lifetimes as an amputee (or rich person, poor person, woman, man etc.) may simply serve to provide a perspective as you gain wisdom and understanding. For me, reincarnation is the only thing that helps to make sense of all this.

Follow up question/answer may be, to what end are we trying to improve our souls? Consider that each soul comes from the exact same thing (God, Creation, source, whatever you want to call it), and that our goal in being temporarily separated from the source is to learn, experience and grow through countless life experiences and incarnations. With the ultimate goal to rejoin the original source, only to do it again and again. It's a giant wheel of life, only, what we experience with this body is a very small part if the big picture.

So talking about being an amputee, being healthy, being rich, or poor, or tall, short, white, black, man, or woman for a given lifetime is simply too narrow a discussion. It's like trying to understand a movie, by analyzing a single 5 second scene. It can't be done.

Welcome to the forum!


The "Why won't God heal amputees?" question is really aimed at people who think that God answers prayers. If you are proposing a reality where every eternal soul has to exist in this universe at some point during their eternal journey, and in this universe there is no healing from "God, Creation, source, whatever you want to call it", this question isn't aimed at you. You have maneuvered your way into a less-contradictory position. Congratulations. Another good thing is that a proposal like yours, on its own, doesn't promote ignorant, unwarranted hatred that needs to be fought against.

But, your pretty-much harmless proposal just doesn't seem likely to me, even if I have to grant you that there is an infinitely-miniscule possibility that you made a lucky guess and got it right. There is a world of endless possibility.

I exist for whatever reason. I don't have free will. Free will is an illusion. So I'm here for the ride. On this ride, I live my life as though I have free will. I don't remember being born, let alone remember any existence I might have had before I was born. It's possible that I may only exist once. Even if there is reincarnation, from where I stand, it's possible that in every new existence, I will only be aware of my current existence, that is if I am even at least as intelligent and aware as a human is.

If there is an intelligent being behind my existence, I am definitely left in the dark for no reason that I can understand.

Many people like to assume that there is a "greater good" that we will all someday understand. The fact that we seem to be living in a universe that is indifferent to the happiness and suffering of conscious creatures, I calculate just as much of a chance as there being a "greater bad" as there would be a "greater good", but I would bet on a "greater indifference" if any.

For me, "I don't know" is definitely a better answer than "Therefore, reincarnation".



Once again, welcome. It's fun to discuss and learn.  :)
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Offline shnozzola

So talking about being an amputee, being healthy, being rich, or poor, or tall, short, white, black, man, or woman for a given lifetime is simply too narrow a discussion. It's like trying to understand a movie, by analyzing a single 5 second scene. It can't be done.

I agree -  I believe the same applies in this one and only lifetime.
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Offline acturbo

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joining this thread late (my first post) ...

Welcome to our forum.


However, consider for a moment that this life is just one of many. That is, reincarnation.

That's a pretty flipping big IF, don't you think?  I'd say you need to connect the dots, because you've not gotten from here to there yet.

i don't think my IF is any bigger than ignoring the various evidence suggesting that reincarnation is real. Short of having a firsthand experience and being able to remember it, i suspect that my comments may always fall short for anyone not interested in exploring the concept. And this is fine. I can only provide my perspective on this topic.

Offline freakygin

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i don't think my IF is any bigger than ignoring the various evidence suggesting that reincarnation is real. Short of having a firsthand experience and being able to remember it, i suspect that my comments may always fall short for anyone not interested in exploring the concept. And this is fine. I can only provide my perspective on this topic.

IF reincarnation is real.
How do you explain the rapid increase on human population?

In early 1800, it's just about 1 billion people.
In just 200 years, now it's about 7 billions.

IF dead people are reborn, then the birth rate should be balanced right?
Or human are reincarnated from cockroaches?
If you argue correctly, you're never wrong..

Offline jynnan tonnix

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I'll admit that the concept of reincarnation has always sort of appealed to me, at least as an alternative to the Christian "believe or burn" dogma.

Even if we don't recall past lives, there could be lessons somewhere in our subconscious, and maybe it's only those who have been around enough times to gain a certain level of enlightenment who can tap into those memories.

Of course, the logistics of the whole thing, if you really start to question it, don't exactly add up. Especially if you start including concepts such as having been something other than human in a past life. Exactly how many surplus souls are drifting around out there?

The stories of young children coming up with names/locations/histories that they couldn't possibly have heard of, where certain details DO appear to check out do intrigue me greatly, though. Even if it's all anecdotal and subject to either fakery or outside influences, and even if there has never really been an absolutely verifiable instance where all the details match, at least there is a lot more to go on than in the anecdotal stories of "heaven". At least there IS something concrete and falsifiable in each case. And that makes me far more willing to at least listen to the theories.

Offline magicmiles

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Offline lotanddaughters

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joining this thread late (my first post) ...

Welcome to our forum.


However, consider for a moment that this life is just one of many. That is, reincarnation.

That's a pretty flipping big IF, don't you think?  I'd say you need to connect the dots, because you've not gotten from here to there yet.

i don't think my IF is any bigger than ignoring the various evidence suggesting that reincarnation is real. Short of having a firsthand experience and being able to remember it, i suspect that my comments may always fall short for anyone not interested in exploring the concept. And this is fine. I can only provide my perspective on this topic.
Bold is mine.

Keep this in mind:

Every single field of science is crowded with capable researchers. From this time forward, there will never be a collection of new solid evidence that gets ignored by all of the top scientists.

Never.

Actual evidence for reincarnation? Scientists jump for joy and do cartwheels after making a discovery of not even a sliver of the importance of such a discovery.

Please. Think. About. This. Before. Continuing.
Enough with your bullshit.
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Offline Hatter23

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IF dead people are reborn, then the birth rate should be balanced right?
Or human are reincarnated from cockroaches?

would explain the popularity of "Jersey Shore"
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline acturbo

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joining this thread late (my first post) ...

Welcome to our forum.


However, consider for a moment that this life is just one of many. That is, reincarnation.

That's a pretty flipping big IF, don't you think?  I'd say you need to connect the dots, because you've not gotten from here to there yet.

i don't think my IF is any bigger than ignoring the various evidence suggesting that reincarnation is real. Short of having a firsthand experience and being able to remember it, i suspect that my comments may always fall short for anyone not interested in exploring the concept. And this is fine. I can only provide my perspective on this topic.
Bold is mine.

Keep this in mind:

Every single field of science is crowded with capable researchers. From this time forward, there will never be a collection of new solid evidence that gets ignored by all of the top scientists.

Never.

Actual evidence for reincarnation? Scientists jump for joy and do cartwheels after making a discovery of not even a sliver of the importance of such a discovery.

Please. Think. About. This. Before. Continuing.

Scientists tend to be experts in the material world. If they can quantify it, they will be able to tell us lots about it. This particular topic involves the etheral (perhaps dark matter or plasma or something else still, for example), which is not well understood by scientists. So likewise, please think about that as you explore this topic from a material-centric point of view. Furthermore, people often forget that the vast majority of science consists of theories. Scientific "fact" that people take as outright fact, are often times just well-detailed theories.

Given that scientists are not able to provide definitive insights into this topic, i see a few options .. people can choose to 1) believe what they are told 2) believe it's all bunk, 3) sit the fence, as in "i don't know", 4) invent their own theories, 5) seek elsewhere for answers. 

I used to be in the #2/#3 camps for years, and then i stumbled my way into the #5 camp and have been here for the past 5-6 years. I like to base my opinions and decisions on more tangible facts as well, so i took the approach of researching reincarnation. I found various western doctors that have discovered and performed past-life regressions and that have documented thousands of cases. This is how i became interested in this topic.

Online One Above All

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Did you just infer that plasma is not well understood? Please tell me I'm wrong so I don't have to forever mark you as an idiot.
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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This is a ball of plasma.
We know what plasma is.
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Offline jdawg70

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Scientific "fact" that people take as outright fact, are often times just well-detailed theories.
While keeping the following assumptions in mind:
1) You are currently communicating with others via a computer over a global always-on network.
2) You own or have in the past driven a car.
3) You own or have in the past used a GPS navigation system in a car or walking.
4) You have been given vaccines and/or are in the presence of those that have received vaccines.
5) You have been in have been in the presence of a person who has received X-rays as part of an physical examination.
6) You've eaten a potato chip from a bag purchased at a store.
7) You have worn or know someone who wears contact lenses.

Please provide an example of a scientific theory you have some familiarity with that you do not consider true or factual.

Quote
Given that scientists are not able to provide definitive insights into this topic, i see a few options .. people can choose to 1) believe what they are told 2) believe it's all bunk, 3) sit the fence, as in "i don't know", 4) invent their own theories, 5) seek elsewhere for answers. 

I used to be in the #2/#3 camps for years, and then i stumbled my way into the #5 camp and have been here for the past 5-6 years. I like to base my opinions and decisions on more tangible facts as well, so i took the approach of researching reincarnation. I found various western doctors that have discovered and performed past-life regressions and that have documented thousands of cases. This is how i became interested in this topic.
It's a little...strange...to have someone declare that they wish to look 'elsewhere', implying elsewhere from science, for answers, and extol how convincing they've found other scientific research data.

I'm just a bit confused by it, that's all.
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Offline Ataraxia

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It's a little...strange...to have someone declare that they wish to look 'elsewhere', implying elsewhere from science, for answers, and extol how convincing they've found other scientific research data.

I'm just a bit confused by it, that's all.

Science is great..... until it counters faith.
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Offline acturbo

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Before you guys start throwing rocks .... consider the sun.

Scientists have been telling us for years and years that the sun experiences nuclear reactions every second to produce the light and heat we see and feel.  I bet that most of you don't realize that other scientists have determined that this is not the case at all. These other scientists propose that the sun actually produces electrical heat. 

Invest time to research the Electric Universe.

I say this to make you realize that science is full of theories. Take your pick what to believe.



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Before you guys start throwing rocks .... consider the sun.

Scientists have been telling us for years and years that the sun experiences nuclear reactions every second to produce the light and heat we see and feel.  I bet that most of you don't realize that other scientists have determined that this is not the case at all. These other scientists propose that the sun actually produces electrical heat. 

Invest time to research the Electric Universe.

I say this to make you realize that science is full of theories. Take your pick what to believe.

I want links, names, and papers. And an answer to my question. Did you or did you not infer that we don't know what plasma is?
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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These other scientists propose that the sun actually produces electrical heat. 

Which is demonstrably wrong.

Electricity is electrons passing through conductive materials.

Space is a void, thus electricity cannot pass through it, which would result in zer0 energy intake from the sun to the earth, which would result in eventual death of everything on earth, and would leave it as a frozen ball.
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Space is a void, thus electricity cannot pass through it

Wrong. In one of the seminars I attended, they mentioned that electrons were observed leaving galaxies, due to their rotation, perpendicularly to said galaxies in both directions (what one might call "up" and "down", if such distinctions made sense in outer space).
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Wrong. In one of the seminars I attended, they mentioned that electrons were observed leaving galaxies, due to their rotation, perpendicularly to said galaxies in both directions (what one might call "up" and "down", if such distinctions made sense in outer space).

I never said electrons cannot pass through a void.

They indeed can, in the form of Beta Particles.

But "electricity" cannot pass through a void by definition.

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Offline Azdgari

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Electricity is the flow of electrons due to a charge imbalance.  So, yes, it absolutely can flow through a "void" if we aren't tautologically defining "void" as "devoid of electrons".
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Electricity is the flow of electrons due to a charge imbalance.  So, yes, it absolutely can flow through a "void" if we aren't tautologically defining "void" as "devoid of electrons".

Wouldn't they become radiation in this case?
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Offline Azdgari

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Note the "due to charge imbalance" part.  No, that's not the same as radiation.
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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I stand corrected then.

Hmmm, does that mean that electrons in space could be utilized for ion engines?
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Offline Azdgari

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The charge density wouldn't likely be nearly high enough to actually use for anything.  If you were in a place where it was, then that space would probably be somewhere to avoid.

None of this, of course, has anything to do with the absurd idea that the sun's heat is due to the flow of electrons.
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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The charge density wouldn't likely be nearly high enough to actually use for anything.  If you were in a place where it was, then that space would probably be somewhere to avoid.

Darn, if it were true, I would of added it to my possible Fan-Fic...
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Offline Azdgari

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^^ There's always the "RAMScoop" option.
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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^^ There's always the "RAMScoop" option.

O_o? Huh.
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Offline Azdgari

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bussard_ramjet

Basically, using an ion drive and collecting the material to propel with (but not the energetic fuel) from surrounding space.
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