Author Topic: Challenging Angels & Demons  (Read 990 times)

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Offline Nick

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2013, 09:19:56 PM »
I have noticed that the two times I wrote about my and my wife's experiences with the "supernatural", not one person here has challenged me or remarked on them.

I wonder what that means?
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2013, 09:38:00 PM »
Nah, none of that stuff.  For me it manifests mainly as fear of the dark.  I get spooky feelings that *something* is behind me or waiting around a dark corner or creeping up just out of sight.


Ummm, that would be me. But I'm harmless...
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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2013, 11:03:09 PM »
Sometimes I have to remind myself there are no dark forces constantly screwing everything up for me.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2013, 02:34:23 AM »
I have noticed that the two times I wrote about my and my wife's experiences with the "supernatural", not one person here has challenged me or remarked on them.

I wonder what that means?

Might mean that there was no evidence presented.  Might mean the experiences were unrepeatable.  Might mean that the people best qualified to analyse them missed the threads. 

This might be an opportune thread to repeat one of your stories.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2013, 02:38:53 AM »
I love it--I would have thought all you (us) hardcore atheists would be strutting around all fearless in the face of a dark and spooky house.  I was nervous to say that, yeah, I would be spooked in that situation even though I know ghosts don't exist.

Glad to know that we (mostly) have some chinks in our armor.

It's a fine point though.  I would be creeped out, but I wouldn't be afraid of ghosts, if that makes sense?  The environment would make me feel uneasy because dark and creaky and lonely touch something in our caveman souls, but I wouldn't actually be thinking that Freddy Kruegar would be jumping out of mirrors at me.

So I WOULD stay the night in a haunted house.  I'd sit in a corner, with heavy duty torch and camcorder, and would walk out in the morning tired and stiff having spent a night on my nerves, but untroubled by any actual manifestations.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2013, 02:45:03 AM »
This might be an opportune thread to repeat one of your stories.

Found two!

Many years ago I was to take a plane to the UK but some feeling was strong in me not to take that plane. I did anyway and nothing happened.

Indeed.  Sometimes weird feelings mean nothing.

My ex-wife and I went out one evening and I set the alarm. When we returned we went up to bed but I checked the second bedroom and found the bed there (a large heavy bed) had been rotated 90 degrees. The alarm showed no entry into the house while we were away. Twice the bed we slept in vibrated vigorously and there was no attachment that could have caused that. My ex-wife and I both experiened these shaking episodes when we in the bed.

Off the top of my head.....vibration from lorries or trains, maybe the house is on a localised fault.  Without more detail, very hard to comment.  How long did the shaking last for? 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online Ron Jeremy

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2013, 03:41:49 AM »
I have noticed that the two times I wrote about my and my wife's experiences with the "supernatural", not one person here has challenged me or remarked on them.

I wonder what that means?

Three weeks ago I put my favourite jacket in the closet and soon went away to work. Came back last week - no jacket. My wife hadn't touched it, my kids can't reach the peg. I searched everywhere, no jacket in the house. Poltergeist? Yesterday I was round my friends house and he handed me my jacket. Instantly I remembered I'd actually left it there one evening. But up until then I KNEW I'd hung it on a peg in my closet. I think the supernatural is a mix of natural occurrences and the human mind.

Early on in my kid's childhood I explained to them about nightmares and being scared in the dark. We talked about how their nightmares involved monsters; when they woke up in the night it was a monster in the dark that had made the noise. So I explained (scientist's research, I'm not claiming credit for this explanation!) that although we live in modern houses and play on iPhones, parts of our brains are still living in the primeval jungle. At night when we hear a noise, our brain's survival can't afford to take the chance that the noise is harmless; every time there's a creak or thump; it's a threat. And not just a little threat, it's something that'll kill us, hence the conjured image of a monster. That's how we survived so long. My kids brain tells them to stay very quiet and hide. When I hear a noise at night; my brain immediately paints a picture of someone in the house out to harm my wife or kids, my brain tells me to arm myself and go investigate. Although if I know I'm alone in the house my brain says 'stay very still and wait til the threat reveals itself'.

So being afraid as adults when alone in a dark unfamiliar place, I think our brain's survival kicks in. When we hear a noise and can't see what it is, our brain paints a picture of something very strong and alert, something we can't beat, like a demon or ghost, our brain is preparing ourselves to fight for our lives against an unseen strong enemy. We know there's no sabre tooth tigers or wolves (not in my part of the world anyway), there are no predators that can kill me, so what made that noise?

I walked back from the pub last night, my walk takes me through a very dark wood where I need my phone torch to see. Even though I'm as sure as can be that there are no gods or demons, when I'm walking through that wood my primitive brain is shouting 'Beware Monsters!'

Offline neopagan

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2013, 07:11:52 AM »
As a kid, I used to take our trash cans down our long driveway at night to the curb for pickup in the early morning We lived in a wooded area and for some reason I started conjuring this image of two wolves loping across the yard after me only to crash into the door snarling as I safely slipped into the house. My own invented idea would freak me out some, even though I would walk a steady pace and never turn around to look. It was my own "invented" scenario, but I would still go inside with my heart racing quite often.   I still think of it if I ever take the trash out in the dark.
And no, an old Cherokee did not tell me this story...
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Offline Boots

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2013, 07:25:03 AM »
And no, an old Cherokee did not tell me this story...

Good thing, because if he found you told it, he might Sioux you!!  HAW HAW HAW HAW
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Offline epidemic

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2013, 07:39:51 AM »
it is funny but I was resisting the urge to speak here.  I don't believe in ghosts, boogiemen, zombies, vampires, angels, deamons...  But on occasion I can get creeped out in an empty house or when walking in the dark through the woods. 

I am embarrased on occasion by this,  the idea of sleeping in a grave yard or a house with multiple murders and tales of ghosts would make me feel uncomfortable.  My rational brain says no problem, and I could probably overcome the fear, but it would still be there in the pit of my stomach.

my rational brain says I have never seen anything supernatural event, I know no one who has had an unquestionable supernatural experience.  Lots of claims that can be relegated to the realm of imagination and misinterpretation.  Yet still I get creeped out

« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 07:48:14 AM by epidemic »

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2013, 07:46:54 AM »
And no, an old Cherokee did not tell me this story...

Good thing, because if he found you told it, he might Sioux you!!  HAW HAW HAW HAW

It was a good story, but not Apache on Anthony's.....
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2013, 08:07:38 AM »
On the original post, I think you are making a minor error.

What you are is a skeptic. So am I.

Atheism, IMO, is just a subset of skepticism. Skeptical on the concept "A god or gods exist."
Angels and Demons, as a concept, seem to be, at least in Western culture, dependent on a god or gods existence...and therefore are covered under atheism.

Ghosts do not have the same level of cultural dependency.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 08:10:13 AM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2013, 09:09:25 AM »
This might be an opportune thread to repeat one of your stories.

anthony's stories:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,19411.msg429364.html#msg429364
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,7335.msg166933.html#msg166933
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,9252.msg228149.html#msg228149
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,14412.msg318778.html#msg318778

These appear to be retellings of the same event.  Was there a second one, anthony?  If so, my search did not find it.

What kind of response would you like?  I do not believe it was supernatural.  I believe there was a reasonable, natural explanation.  But I do not know what it is, nor do I think I will ever know.  It was an event that took place 30 years ago, and obviously not even you were able to record all the variables. 
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Online Ron Jeremy

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2013, 11:30:28 AM »
On the original post, I think you are making a minor error.

What you are is a skeptic. So am I.

Atheism, IMO, is just a subset of skepticism. Skeptical on the concept "A god or gods exist."
Angels and Demons, as a concept, seem to be, at least in Western culture, dependent on a god or gods existence...and therefore are covered under atheism.

Ghosts do not have the same level of cultural dependency.

Just to make my position clear; I have no belief in gods, demons, angels or ghosts. I'd be quite happy to spend a night in a 'haunted' house as long as I could bring a couple of bits like my laptop, webcam, torch, etc to combat my mind playing tricks on me.

I also have no problem challenging any supernatural being to knock my plane out the sky as I have no belief in them. In fact I'm flying next week, I'll happily post my flight details an hour before departure (even though any demon should be able to read my emails).

But that doesn't stop me thinking about the supernatural monster that's stalking me as I walk through the woods in the dead of night!

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2013, 11:49:28 AM »
I live in the woods. I go out in them in the dark quite a lot. Without a flashlight. I know that I could encounter the following inconvenient animals:

Skunks
Porcupines
Moose
Very rarely, bears
Far more rarely, cougars.
On warms nights, I guess I could encounter a rattlesnake. Not likely, however.
There are coyotes, wolves and foxes. None of them seem to bother people But I guess I should put down wolf attacks, though very rare as well, are possible.

I am much more likely to trip over a fallen branch or step in a hole and twist my ankle, though. Or poke my eye out on a twig in the dark.

If I lived in Florida, I would not be quite so cavalier. Pythons and such, you know. And gators. And many more snakes. Plus, you know, the native population. I challenge you to find a scarier group of retirees.

The stuff coming out of the mouth of Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck scares me much more than anything supernatural. So I guess it is the subnatural that worries me in at night.
Never trust an atom. They make up everything!

Offline Dante

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2013, 12:32:16 PM »
What strikes me as true, even tho I read it in an old comic book, is the fear of unexpected "life", such as ghosts, or reaching to scratch an itch only to find a leech attached. Both of which, I'm sure, are evolutionary survival responses, as outlined by others. Living on the savannah, things that go bump in the night will eat you.

Like PP, I've no problem traipsing through the woods at night fearing anything, but obviously wary of wild predators. Ghosts or demons? Nope, they don't exist.

Haunted houses? Bring it. I've seen no evidence of such things.

That said, yes, I can and have creeped myself out, most usually when climbing stairs from a dark basement, for some unknown reason. Something's sneaking up behind me! Obviously psychological, but I don't know why.

But, since I'm convinced there is no such thing as a supernatural being, anything I may come across must be of the natural world. And, if it bleeds, I can kill it.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2013, 03:24:28 PM »
I had an apartment one time that was a converted attic.  It was very nice.  One big open space.  But near the end where the bed was, there was a staircase down to the apartment below.  It terminated in a door which was locked.  I had a nightmare that a nosferatu[1] like goblin had come up those stairs and was approaching me. 

After I awoke I just could not shake the feeling and for the remaining time I lived there I had a feeling of dread every time I walked past the stairs, particularly at night.  I could not turn my back on them, because if I did, I just knew something was coming to get me.


 1. creepiest, most terrifying vampire EVER
http://opheliasfiction.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/nosferatu.jpeg
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Offline neopagan

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Re: Challenging Angels & Demons
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2013, 03:34:49 PM »
^^^ No wonder you changed your avatar to C&H... much cuddlier
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan