Author Topic: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation  (Read 11284 times)

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Offline HAL

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Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« on: September 02, 2010, 07:50:34 AM »
Quote
LONDON — Physicist Stephen Hawking says God wasn't necessary for the creation of the universe.

In his new book, "The Grand Design," the British scientist says unraveling a complex series of theories will explain the universe. The book, written with Leonard Mlodinow, is to be published Sept. 9. In an extract published in The Times on Thursday, Hawking says spontaneous creation is the reason there is something – as opposed to nothing.

Hawking says "it is not necessary to invoke God to ... get the Universe going."

In his previous book, "A Brief History of Time," Hawking had appeared to accept the possibility of a creator, saying the discovery of a complete theory would allow humans to "know the mind of God."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/02/stephen-hawking-god-not-n_n_703179.html
Seriously, you guys are the meanest people I have ever met.  I hope you are happy and feel really good about yourself. 

Offline stilldeciding

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2010, 07:53:19 AM »
I will defo be buying this book :) Sounds great.
I only come on this forum once the printer and coffee maker stop talking to me. So don't feel special...

Online rev45

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2010, 07:54:55 AM »
I just read about this on Yahoo.  The comment section is making my brain sad. 
Here read a book.  It's free.
http://www.literatureproject.com/

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Offline Nick

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2010, 08:17:21 AM »
It is clear the man has been possessed. ;)
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline stilldeciding

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2010, 08:22:44 AM »
It is clear the man has been possessed. ;)

Lol clearly.

I hate comment section's, they always put me down. :(
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Online velkyn

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2010, 08:30:52 AM »
nice. not that it will keep Liars for Christtm from constantly saying Hawking believes in their god. 
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Offline HAL

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2010, 08:37:29 AM »
nice. not that it will keep Liars for Christtm from constantly saying Hawking believes in their god. 

Right. He didn't say there was no god, he just said one wasn't needed for creation.  :D
Seriously, you guys are the meanest people I have ever met.  I hope you are happy and feel really good about yourself. 

Offline Nick

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2010, 12:19:37 PM »
So we might have a god but one that is just too lazy to create the universe. ;)
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline jedweber

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2010, 12:24:32 PM »
Other news sources are reporting his statements as being much more definitive. Reuters, for example
Quote
God did not create the universe, says Hawking
...
His latest comments suggest he has broken away from previous views he has expressed on religion. Previously, he wrote that the laws of physics meant it was simply not necessary to believe that God had intervened in the Big Bang.
...
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6811FN20100902

Has there really been a shift in his position, or is this misleading reporting/headline writing?

Online velkyn

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2010, 01:09:48 PM »
you can see where the media got it from here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11161493
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Offline jedweber

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2010, 05:05:52 PM »
It seems that the BBC and Reuters headlines (which are being echoed all over the place today) are distorting Hawking's position somewhat. His actual quote, "It is not necessary to invoke God to...set the Universe going" is quite different than stating "God did not create the universe."




Offline roomba

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2010, 05:13:07 PM »
I just read about this on Yahoo.  The comment section is making my brain sad. 

I just read the comments too. If it has anything to do with Obama or atheism, the Yahoo comments fill up with fundies yelling about Obama being a Muslim and atheists going to hell.

Offline jedweber

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2010, 09:17:05 PM »
Hawking's words (or at least the way they're being reported) are going to cause an uproar among fundies.

Ray Comfort has already put out a press release:

Quote
Stephen Hawking Breaks Atheist Rules

"It is embarrassingly unscientific to speak of anything creating itself from nothing. Common sense says that if something possessed the ability to create itself from nothing, then that something wasn't nothing, it was something -- a very intelligent creative power of some sort."
...
"Hawking has violated the unspoken rules of atheism. He isn't supposed to use words like 'create' or even 'made.' They necessitate a Creator and a Maker. Neither are you supposed to let out that the essence of atheism is to believe that nothing created everything, because it's unthinking. It confirms the title of another book I wrote, called, You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, but You Can't Make Him Think. Nor should an atheist speak of gravity as being a 'law,' because that also denotes the axiom of a Law-giver. Laws don't happen by themselves."
...
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/2977814861.html
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 09:18:51 PM by jedweber »

Offline jetson

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2010, 09:37:26 PM »
Hawking's words (or at least the way they're being reported) are going to cause an uproar among fundies.

Ray Comfort has already put out a press release:

Quote
Stephen Hawking Breaks Atheist Rules

"It is embarrassingly unscientific to speak of anything creating itself from nothing. Common sense says that if something possessed the ability to create itself from nothing, then that something wasn't nothing, it was something -- a very intelligent creative power of some sort."
...
"Hawking has violated the unspoken rules of atheism. He isn't supposed to use words like 'create' or even 'made.' They necessitate a Creator and a Maker. Neither are you supposed to let out that the essence of atheism is to believe that nothing created everything, because it's unthinking. It confirms the title of another book I wrote, called, You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, but You Can't Make Him Think. Nor should an atheist speak of gravity as being a 'law,' because that also denotes the axiom of a Law-giver. Laws don't happen by themselves."
...
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/2977814861.html

Dear God,

Would it be possible for you to take Ray to heaven early?  Please???  He deserves to be by your side now!  Seriously.

Sincerely,

Kenny the Atheist

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2010, 11:51:53 PM »
Stephen Hawking said:
Quote
"Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing," the excerpt says. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God to ... set the Universe going."

Now that science has confirmed that yes, something can come from nothing, does this mean that theists can no longer use that arguement anymore?

*Reads latest words from Banana Man Ray Comfort.*

I guess not.  I mean; they shouldn't, but they still will.


Nice to know that the barometer for measuring one's intelligence is not what they've done or reasoned out; but whenever they subscribe to your brand of magical thinking.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 11:55:06 PM by Aaron123 »
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline DVZ3

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2010, 07:10:35 AM »

Isn't this basically what was discussed by Prof. Lawrence Krauss in this lecture I posted the link to below?  That the laws of physics allow you to go back to the beginning of time and the big bang "without god".  That when you have nothing in quantum mechanics you'll always have something.

Hguols: "Its easier for me to believe that a God created everything...."

Offline jedweber

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2010, 08:13:03 AM »
Quote
"Hawking has violated the unspoken rules of atheism. He isn't supposed to use words like 'create' or even 'made.' ... Neither are you supposed to let out that the essence of atheism is to believe that nothing created everything...Nor should an atheist speak of gravity as being a 'law,'..."


Dammit, who's been telling Ray all our rules? They're supposed to be "unspoken"! Now he's on to us.

Offline spiritualatheist

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2010, 08:19:03 AM »
Quote
LONDON — Physicist Stephen Hawking says God wasn't necessary for the creation of the universe.

In his new book, "The Grand Design," the British scientist says unraveling a complex series of theories will explain the universe. The book, written with Leonard Mlodinow, is to be published Sept. 9. In an extract published in The Times on Thursday, Hawking says spontaneous creation is the reason there is something – as opposed to nothing.

Hawking says "it is not necessary to invoke God to ... get the Universe going."

In his previous book, "A Brief History of Time," Hawking had appeared to accept the possibility of a creator, saying the discovery of a complete theory would allow humans to "know the mind of God."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/02/stephen-hawking-god-not-n_n_703179.html
lol you already beaten me this article which I just found 10 minutes ago.
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You can call me an atheist or agnostic with pantheistic beliefs but I ain't believing in your imaginary omnipotent friend bullshit.

Offline Max Kodan

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2010, 11:24:51 AM »
So I was browsing the Huffpost comment section for this article, and I stumbled across this guy NYC123.  He posted this:

Quote from: NYC123
I guess he's not as brilliant as we think he is! I feel for a man that's been wheelchair bound all his life! The everyday things and actions of a physically healthy human that allows us to recognize how special we are made and take for granted: climbing, running, jumping, throwing, playing an instrument, having children, making love -- are all things and actions he is not able to do -- for life! To say unequivocally, "God is out of the picture of creation" -- I know God forgives him in his error!

...This post spawned one of the longest chain-of-replies I'd ever seen in a comment section like this, and I wasn't about to let it slide.  I responded myself.

Quote from: me
You know what's interesting? Think about this for a second, Stephen Hawking is confined to a wheelchair. What do you think he does all day? He THINKS. He constantly thinks. He can't do much besides think. It's his all-day every-day hobby. And yet you can come along, someone who has never really had to think in your entire life, who has had all his answers spoon fed to him by an ancient book and an undereducated priest and say that you can out-think him. The absolute, utter, obscene arrogance of this statement, not to mention the blatant, outright insults you've thrown out are honestly and truly disgusting.

...Sometimes I get a little worked up over idiocy <<...

Edit:  By the way, someone liked the post enough that they became my first fan.  I'm proud of myself, a little bit.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 11:26:30 AM by Max Kodan »
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Online velkyn

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2010, 12:25:41 PM »
good for you Max!  What a vile creature that "good Christain" is, seeming to gloat over the physical misfortune of another.
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Offline omniweasel

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2010, 12:36:19 PM »
Hawking's words (or at least the way they're being reported) are going to cause an uproar among fundies.

Ray Comfort has already put out a press release:

Quote
Stephen Hawking Breaks Atheist Rules

"It is embarrassingly unscientific to speak of anything creating itself from nothing. Common sense says that if something possessed the ability to create itself from nothing, then that something wasn't nothing, it was something -- a very intelligent creative power of some sort."
...
"Hawking has violated the unspoken rules of atheism. He isn't supposed to use words like 'create' or even 'made.' They necessitate a Creator and a Maker. Neither are you supposed to let out that the essence of atheism is to believe that nothing created everything, because it's unthinking. It confirms the title of another book I wrote, called, You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, but You Can't Make Him Think. Nor should an atheist speak of gravity as being a 'law,' because that also denotes the axiom of a Law-giver. Laws don't happen by themselves."
...
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/2977814861.html
the banana man should know, he's the expert on all things unscientific!

Offline HAL

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2010, 05:10:39 PM »
Quote
Religious leaders hit back at Hawking

London, England (CNN) -- Religious leaders in Britain on Friday hit back at claims by leading physicist Stephen Hawking that God had no role in the creation of the universe. In his new book "The Grand Design," Britain's most famous scientist says that given the existence of gravity, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing," according to an excerpt published in The Times of London. "Spontaneous creation is the reason why there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," he wrote. "It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper [fuse] and set the universe going."

But the head of the Church of England, the Archbishop of Canterbury Dr. Rowan Williams, told the Times that "physics on its own will not settle the question of why there is something rather than nothing." He added: "Belief in God is not about plugging a gap in explaining how one thing relates to another within the Universe. It is the belief that there is an intelligent, living agent on whose activity everything ultimately depends for its existence."

Williams' comments were supported by leaders from across the religious spectrum in Britain. Writing in the Times, Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said: "Science is about explanation. Religion is about interpretation ... The Bible simply isn't interested in how the Universe came into being."

...

Hawking was also accused of "missing the point" by colleagues at the University of Cambridge in England. "The 'god' that Stephen Hawking is trying to debunk is not the creator God of the Abrahamic faiths who really is the ultimate explanation for why there is something rather than nothing," said Denis Alexander, director of The Faraday Institute for Science and Religion. "Hawking's god is a god-of-the-gaps used to plug present gaps in our scientific knowledge. "Science provides us with a wonderful narrative as to how [existence] may happen, but theology addresses the meaning of the narrative," he added.

...

Fraser Watts, an Anglican priest and Cambridge expert in the history of science, said that it's not the existence of the universe that proves the existence of God.

"A creator God provides a reasonable and credible explanation of why there is a universe, and ... it is somewhat more likely that there is a God than that there is not. That view is not undermined by what Hawking has said."

Hawking's book -- as the title suggests -- is an attempt to answer "the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything," he wrote, quoting Douglas Adams' cult science fiction romp, "The Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy."


http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/03/hawking.god.universe.criticisms/index.html?hpt=C1
Seriously, you guys are the meanest people I have ever met.  I hope you are happy and feel really good about yourself. 

Offline Frank

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2010, 07:03:50 PM »
It must be great to have so much clout that a single sentence from your latest book has the entire religious community up in arms. Kudos to Hawkins.

Quote
Williams' comments were supported by leaders from across the religious spectrum in Britain. Writing in the Times, Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said: "Science is about explanation. Religion is about interpretation ... The Bible simply isn't interested in how the Universe came into being."

If the Bible isn't interested in how the Universe came into being why are the first words in it "In the beginning"?

I would also say that science is about a SINGLE RATIONAL explanation. Religion is about ANY NUMBER of IRRATIONAL interpretations that often contradict each other depending on which religion is doing the interpreting.
"Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions fall away, atheism is what is left behind".

Offline jedweber

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2010, 07:24:54 AM »
The Wall Street Journal has an excerpt from the book up now:

Quote
Why God Did Not Create the Universe
There is a sound scientific explanation for the making of our world—no gods required
By STEPHEN HAWKING And LEONARD MLODINOW
...
LINK

Over 1000 comments already.

Offline Nick

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2010, 09:23:41 AM »
I wonder how long it will take to crucify him?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline jetson

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2010, 09:44:08 AM »
The United States is doomed!  I need a shower after reading some of the comments.

Offline jedweber

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2010, 10:33:53 AM »
^ It's a refined discussion compared to the comments on Yahoo!.

Fewer Bible quotes and people saying Hawking will go to hell.

Though this appeared right on page 1:

Quote
These are the ravings of a crooked little man bitter at his fate, so he rails against the heavens that bent him low; "You don't exist!" Perfectly understandable. His theory is of no benefit suggesting something comes from nothing. He answers the challenge to the Big Bang Theory 'What went BANG" with the reply "Nothing!". NOTHING COMES FROM NOTHING!! He's a New Age nihilist.

His derogation of religion is dangerous to the propagation of ethics and morality, and hence civilization. In an earlier age he would have been sent to the auto de fei, but with a difference, his would be justified. He adds nothing to knowledge and civilization and takes away much without benefiting anything or anyone, but himself.

Offline Nick

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2010, 10:56:53 AM »
^ It's a refined discussion compared to the comments on Yahoo!.

Fewer Bible quotes and people saying Hawking will go to hell.

Though this appeared right on page 1:

Quote
These are the ravings of a crooked little man bitter at his fate, so he rails against the heavens that bent him low; "You don't exist!" Perfectly understandable. His theory is of no benefit suggesting something comes from nothing. He answers the challenge to the Big Bang Theory 'What went BANG" with the reply "Nothing!". NOTHING COMES FROM NOTHING!! He's a New Age nihilist.

His derogation of religion is dangerous to the propagation of ethics and morality, and hence civilization. In an earlier age he would have been sent to the auto de fei, but with a difference, his would be justified. He adds nothing to knowledge and civilization and takes away much without benefiting anything or anyone, but himself.
Because you can't have ethics or morals without fear of hell.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Online velkyn

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Re: Stephen Hawking: God NOT Needed For Creation
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2010, 02:00:53 PM »
Quote
These are the ravings of a crooked little man bitter at his fate, so he rails against the heavens that bent him low; "You don't exist!" Perfectly understandable. His theory is of no benefit suggesting something comes from nothing. He answers the challenge to the Big Bang Theory 'What went BANG" with the reply "Nothing!". NOTHING COMES FROM NOTHING!! He's a New Age nihilist.

His derogation of religion is dangerous to the propagation of ethics and morality, and hence civilization. In an earlier age he would have been sent to the auto de fei, but with a difference, his would be justified. He adds nothing to knowledge and civilization and takes away much without benefiting anything or anyone, but himself.
[/quote]

well, at least they admit that their god is responsible for evil.  How nice.  Of course they still want to burn people who dare to disagree with them at the stake.  Always lovely to see that Christians can be just as vile as I think they are. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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