Is physical fitness good or bad?

[Backspace]

I was channel-surfing on the TV last night, and stopped at one of the myriad of religious programs.  The pastor, who was quite corpulent, was preaching the godly benefits of physical training (I honestly believe evangelicals are incapable of recognizing irony - but I digress...).  His sermon piqued my curiosity, as I rememberd the Bible stating something to the contrary.  I typed "Physical Training" into the Bible Gateway search box, and had a good chuckle at the results:

1 Timothy 4:8…
(NLT)   “Physical training is good…”
(NIV)   “For physical training is of some value…”
(ASV)   “For bodily exercise is profitable for a little…”
(ISV)   “Physical exercise is of limited value…”
(NASB)   “For bodily discipline is only of little profit…”
(KJV)   “Bodily exercise profiteth little…”

I guess this supports the old Christian addage, "The Bible has something for everyone."

[velkyn]

well, I can imagine a Christian arguing that one shouldn't "care" about the body since it's just sinful and well they're going go get a super-special new body when they die. 

[Nam]

To keep myself physically fit, I have to work out 6-8 hours per day (every day).  I did that for a few years, and stopped.  It took too much of my time from other things.  I don't mind a little gut here and there.

-Nam

[bosey926]

To answer your question.  Of course physical fitness is good, but to whom it is good and how are the underlying questions. 

If we are speaking in relation to each individual member of the congregation, then of course physical fitness is a good thing.  They become much healthier in many aspects.  Not having to be concerned with diabetes, heart disease, respiratory complications with age, etc.  Not to mention a women's breasts won't be the size of three watermelons, a man would find pecker that he hasn't seen for twenty years under his dickey-doo, both won't have to financial burden of purchasing custom clothing, and of course they can wipe their ass with ease.

On the other hand, if we are speaking in terms of the hierarchy of the church's opinion on whether physical fitness is good or bad, guess what their going to say.  Why would they want their congregates to be healthy?  That is one less thing to pray about.  One less reason to trust their Gawd if they see first hand that the scientific way works every time. Also, look at the first world country statistics on obesity.  You don't find to many atheist, homosexual, male mid-30's or 40's couples that have body fat percentage of 50 and a BMI of 45 now do you?

[Backspace]

To answer your question....

Bosey, I didn't ask a question. I tried to illustrate contradictions between several versions of the Bible -- you know, God's unchanging word?

[Jonat]

Well, it looks like you forgot most of the verse.

For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.
(NIV)

Which means that it isn't explicitly talking about whether or not you should exercise this afternoon or not, but that godliness has a higher value.

[jetson]

Well, it looks like you forgot most of the verse.

For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.
(NIV)

Which means that it isn't explicitly talking about whether or not you should exercise this afternoon or not, but that godliness has a higher value.

The Bible rarely talks explicitly about anything in particular, until a person decides it should, and so they apply an explicit meaning to an otherwise benign and pointless vers or passage.  And so it goes throughout the verses and books...sigh.

According to The Bible, how do I take care of a skin disease?
How do I keep my campsite clean?
How do I deal with one who steals my ox?
If I remove a cancerous testicle to save my life, can I be a part of Gods congregation?

Yes, the nonsense goes on and on and on...and I'm still in the OT!

Anyway, it would be really interesting if the overwhelming majority of humans who read The Bible were left breathless, and in complete awe at the beauty and wonder in it's words and verses...but alas, we are left stunned and shocked by the horror, murder, slavery, animal sacrifice, and pure nonsense sprinkled generously throughout it's pages.

Funny thing, The Bible.  It manages to inspire billions of people who don't give a shit what it actually says.  They instead write it all off as the mysterious ways, and the loving creator, yadda yadda bing bang.

Fuck.  Seriously.

[Jonat]

Well, it looks like you forgot most of the verse.

For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.
(NIV)

Which means that it isn't explicitly talking about whether or not you should exercise this afternoon or not, but that godliness has a higher value.

The Bible rarely talks explicitly about anything in particular, until a person decides it should, and so they apply an explicit meaning to an otherwise benign and pointless vers or passage.  And so it goes throughout the verses and books...sigh.

I agree with this.  Christians have been known to try and bend religion around themselves.  It's not correct, and it's far too common.  The original poster posted with the other translations (that I think were supposed to appear contradictory), and I put them into proper context.  Nothing more, nothing less.

According to The Bible, how do I take care of a skin disease?
How do I keep my campsite clean?
How do I deal with one who steals my ox?
If I remove a cancerous testicle to save my life, can I be a part of Gods congregation?

Yes, the nonsense goes on and on and on...and I'm still in the OT!

Anyway, it would be really interesting if the overwhelming majority of humans who read The Bible were left breathless, and in complete awe at the beauty and wonder in it's words and verses...but alas, we are left stunned and shocked by the horror, murder, slavery, animal sacrifice, and pure nonsense sprinkled generously throughout it's pages.

Funny thing, The Bible.  It manages to inspire billions of people who don't give a s**t what it actually says.  They instead write it all off as the mysterious ways, and the loving creator, yadda yadda bing bang.

f**k.  Seriously.

I'm not gonna lie, I couldn't follow what you were getting at with the rest of your post.  Could you elaborate?

[jetson]

Nothing, really, except the obvious fact that The Bible is not worthy of it's current status as a book.  Not by a long shot.

[Foi]

So...where's the contradiction?

[velkyn]

I agree with this.  Christians have been known to try and bend religion around themselves.  It's not correct, and it's far too common.  The original poster posted with the other translations (that I think were supposed to appear contradictory), and I put them into proper context.  Nothing more, nothing less.

and this is what all Christains say, "I know the "proper" context, so believe *me*".  Sorry, no.  You are just one more Christian who wishs to declare that their "bending" of religion is the right one. 

[Jonat]

I agree with this.  Christians have been known to try and bend religion around themselves.  It's not correct, and it's far too common.  The original poster posted with the other translations (that I think were supposed to appear contradictory), and I put them into proper context.  Nothing more, nothing less.

and this is what all Christains say, "I know the "proper" context, so believe *me*".  Sorry, no.  You are just one more Christian who wishs to declare that their "bending" of religion is the right one. 

Let's be real here.  Even you would agree that leaving out almost all of the verse constitutes taking it out of context.  I'm not claiming any special understanding, I just read the entire verse instead of the first few words.  Even if I was an atheist I would call that out.

[velkyn]

I agree with this.  Christians have been known to try and bend religion around themselves.  It's not correct, and it's far too common.  The original poster posted with the other translations (that I think were supposed to appear contradictory), and I put them into proper context.  Nothing more, nothing less.

and this is what all Christains say, "I know the "proper" context, so believe *me*".  Sorry, no.  You are just one more Christian who wishs to declare that their "bending" of religion is the right one. 

Let's be real here.  Even you would agree that leaving out almost all of the verse constitutes taking it out of context.  I'm not claiming any special understanding, I just read the entire verse instead of the first few words.  Even if I was an atheist I would call that out.

Yep, let's be real here.  I have seen Christians claim "context" constantly and you all have different criteria on what God "really" meant and what "context" really means.  So don't give me this crap on how much more "honest" you are than anyone else. The bible is out there, anyone can read it and see it all: www.biblegateway.com     

[Jonat]

I agree with this.  Christians have been known to try and bend religion around themselves.  It's not correct, and it's far too common.  The original poster posted with the other translations (that I think were supposed to appear contradictory), and I put them into proper context.  Nothing more, nothing less.

and this is what all Christains say, "I know the "proper" context, so believe *me*".  Sorry, no.  You are just one more Christian who wishs to declare that their "bending" of religion is the right one.  

Let's be real here.  Even you would agree that leaving out almost all of the verse constitutes taking it out of context.  I'm not claiming any special understanding, I just read the entire verse instead of the first few words.  Even if I was an atheist I would call that out.

Yep, let's be real here.  I have seen Christians claim "context" constantly and you all have different criteria on what God "really" meant and what "context" really means.  So don't give me this crap on how much more "honest" you are than anyone else. The bible is out there, anyone can read it and see it all: www.biblegateway.com    

Let's focus on the verse we're talking about here instead of insults.  They're not getting you anywhere.

Now, by saying
"Physical training is good…”
One can gather that "Oh!  The Bible says I should exercise"

BUT

The entire verse says: "For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come."

That's like only listening to half a sentence.  You just can't get the full meaning out of it without listening to all of it.

Are we really arguing this?  Do I really have to explain to you that it doesn't work to leave out most of the verse?

[velkyn]

Insults?  You think that demonstrating that your claims are wrong is an insult.  Sigh.  No, it’s demonstrating your claims are wrong.  Sorry, if you take it personally.   

Let’s look at the OP. Backspace was noting that most pastors are disgustingly fat.  He cited bible verses which seem to indicate that physical activity is a good thing.  Now, you come on and say ‘but wait, that’s not what the verse says!”   Well, does it say that physical activity is good or not?  The rest of the verse says that though physical activity is of some value, “godliness”, whatever that is, has value for all things, and promises that there is a reward after one dies.  Does this excuse the corpulent pastors who prate on how great the bible is?

In the context of Backspace’s observation, I find the rest of the verse is not particularly needed.  The question is: is physical fitness good and should pastors practice what they supposedly preach? 

[Foi]

Velkyn, so far you have completely failed to demonstrate Jonat being wrong here.

In the context of Backspace’s observation...the verse is not particularly needed.

Because two can play at this game. What's the difference between my taking your quote out of context and your taking the 1 Timothy quote out of context? There is none. They're both false representations of what was said.

Now addressing what you actually said. You said that in the context of Backspace's observation, the rest of the verse isn't needed. He missed the point of the verse though. Velkyn, let me ask you something: what is the main point of the verse?

[Backspace]

Thanks Velkyn for catching the drift of my OP.

Foi, Jonat, this forum is about biblical contradictions, and depending on which bible you choose, you can get contradictory biblical direction on the value of physical fitness: from it's good to it profiteth little.  I will say the TV pastor certainly understood one thing about the remainder of 1 Tim 4:8: "godliness is profitable".

[Norderner]

Thanks Velkyn for catching the drift of my OP.

Foi, Jonat, this forum is about biblical contradictions, and depending on which bible you choose, you can get contradictory biblical direction on the value of physical fitness: from it's good to it profiteth little.  I will say the TV pastor certainly understood one thing about the remainder of 1 Tim 4:8: "godliness is profitable".

Yup, even I could start a church and make money off of it.
"God is good, god is great, put some money in the collection plate!"

[Foi]

Backspace, I don't see how A and B contradict each other when A says "this is good" and B says "this is a little bit good". They are the same idea, and while I personally don't like the NLT because of weird differences like this, the main idea is the same, which is not that physical fitness is profitable to some degree, but that godliness is to be desired.

People are not always quoted verbatim in the press. Does that mean the newspaper's quote of someone in the paper contradicts the actual audio. No, not if the ideas are the same. Does "Houston, we have a problem" contradict what was actually said by the Apollo 13 commander? No. "But the verb tenses are totally not the same!"

[Graybeard]

1 Timothy 4:8…
(NLT)   “Physical training is good…”
(NIV)   “For physical training is of some value…”
(ASV)   “For bodily exercise is profitable for a little…”
(ISV)   “Physical exercise is of limited value…”
(NASB)   “For bodily discipline is only of little profit…”
(KJV)   “Bodily exercise profiteth little…”

Here's a commentary on the verse:

4:8 For bodily exercise profiteth little. The Greeks gave great attention to bodily training. At Ephesus, where Timothy was, may still be seen the remains of the stadium where the athletes displayed their skill. Let Christians display the same assiduity in training for godliness.

When Paul wrote this, Timothy would be relatively young (c.35yrs). However, bear in mind that in the absence of electricity and the internal combustion engine, Paul, Timothy and all those around would be walking 8 or 9 miles a day and labouring hard. They therefore got all the exercise they ever needed - more was indeed pointless.

It is now in context. Paul, a grumpy old man, sees exercise as a waste of time when Timothy could be worshipping god. (Hey, it's his job to say that.)

The other point is the variety of translations. Note the nuances from NLT to KJV. If ever it were needed to show that the bible in its myriad forms is inconsistent, this is it, varying as it does from "it's good" to "it's pointless."

I doubt any of them is anything like the original (were it to be found.)

[Backspace]

The other point is the variety of translations. Note the nuances from NLT to KJV. If ever it were needed to show that the bible in its myriad forms is inconsistent, this is it, varying as it does from "it's good" to "it's pointless."

That's irony I was aiming for. But apparently the Christian decoder ring equates it's good with it's pointless. But none of this matters because only the second half of the verse is important. Sure thing...

Foi, this doesn't equate to people being misquoted in the press; this is biblical scripture - the literal/inspired word of your God. And saying you don't care for the NLT is typical Christian hypocrisy - what would the magic trio say about you knocking what may be the "right" translation?  



Edit: Minor clarification

[Foi]

Let me get this straight: "it profiteth little" = "it's pointless" but "it's good" ? "it profiteth little"? Outstanding.

No one said only the second half of the verse matters. We said the second half of the verse is the point. It still matters, otherwise it wouldn't be there.

[Jesuspadawan]

1 Timothy 4:8 (New King James Version)
8 For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come.

1 Timothy 4:8 (American Standard Version)

 8 for bodily exercise is profitable for a little; but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life which now is, and of that which is to come.

1 Timothy 4:8 (New Living Translation)
8 “Physical training is good, but training for godliness is much better, promising benefits in this life and in the life to come.”

This goes back to the original point.  If you take the quote in it's context you see the writer contrasting the need of godliness trumps that of physical fitness. Christians should see their bodies as a temple and need to take care of what God has given them.The Bible does not knock physical exercise, but puts it in it's proper perspective.

[velkyn]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ which underlines the initial question, why are there so many grossly obese pastors and priests? 

Foi, you prate about "context".  What is the context of these verses? What makes physical activity not something that believers should practice?  Why should they ignore it and gorge themselves on food when others go hungry? Why do they drive expensive cars, have tax free homes on top of ridiculous salaries, have ludicrously expensive churches? 

and you ask "what's the point of the verse?" Well, as has been demonstrated, depends on the translation, doesn't it? 

NIV:8For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

  Seems that physical exercise is okay. hey, this is God's words right? Inspired by God???  I'd read this as "Phyiscal training is good but godliness is more universally useful.  it can help both in this world *and* in the next."  So, Foi(if you ever return to this thread), answer my questions.   

[Jesuspadawan]

Obesity among Christians but especially pastors and leaders is a very poor witness and displays laziness and selfishness.