Author Topic: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?  (Read 18217 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline I WANT TRUTH

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Female
Hi everyone  :)  That's a fake smile by the way; coz I cant even muster a real one up at the moment;

; This may be in the wrong section? if yes; sorry. :?

A brief bit of my story for anyone interested.

I have been a Christian for 10 years.
age 0-20, I was an atheist
age 20-30, I was a Christian
age 30, (now) AAAGHHHGH  I'm freaking out.

I feel lost and scared; seriously. A few days ago I was just at utube looking for a clip about Muslims that someone had sent me; but I stumbled upon that clip from WWGHA ; then I studied the website; & also the 'god is imaginary' one; and I agreed with many of the points; as they had come to my attention over the years- but I had just dismissed them...(because I didn't have the answers; and I tried to just let God be the boss; & to trust in His wisdom...) I also watched those clips on utube from the guy who used to be a christian ;
http://www.youtube.com/user/Evid3nc3#p/u/15/RDOolLsdxPo   ;
and I agreed with much of what he said too; I feel like he really knows what is going on inside my brain!

I seriously am amazed that within the last few days- these websites have pushed me to a 'sitting on the fence' position...  and it was only just the other day that I wrote on Facebook- that I had been a believer for 10 years and had not doubted Gods existence for a moment in ALL THAT TIME!... I didn't think I was boasting-? (maybe I'm being punished for being full of myself-? *I seriously think/thought  like this as a Christian. I was just amazed that I had been SO CERTAIN that God was real! (especially since I had not believed in him from the age of 0-20 yrs.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My faith has been shaken now...for the first time;

It annoys me (my pride probably) that people have already said that my faith must be weak because of this; (even though I have had very strong faith- and been very confident in my beliefs for 10 years.) I know that's what most Christians think when someone 'falls away'. I can visualise the 'Christians' from my old church being delighted that I have finally 'fallen'. I left there a few years ago because of a difference of doctrine...and they basically expect everyone who leaves them to fall away from God- but I didn't...until now...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyway; I want to say this publically ; that IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!!!
It's not fair that we are born into this world- and that we have NO IDEA *why* we are here.
It doesn't seem to bother some people- (like it never used to bother me before I became a Christian)~but NOW it bothers me.

What are we meant to be doing with our time? How are we meant to act? Does it even matter?

If God is real- why didn't He make it easier and simpler!

If He is real & the Bible is his word- then why not make the bible better than it is!? ... Because it's confusing and it does my head in- I have studied it heaps; and it never gets easier-(& I have no idea how more 'simpler' people can even comprehend it! )

There is always something to completely confuse you! I also wondered why it's not full of better information- rather than, blah, blah blah blah blah- I wanted some PRACTIAL info; and why did SO much have to be repeated... & couldn't it have been put into a simpler format?!...and couldn't the bible tell us MORE about this 'GOD' !!!???    ... agaahahgahhhh  ...Why does it all have to be clothed in darkness and mystery!!!?

 I used to love the old testament- well some of it; coz I thought I was really getting to know my creator- but I did not like all that I read...
 
I know so many people that misquote the Bible- or just make their own stuff up & say that it's in there...and people that interpret passages erroneously...

I am sick of talking about doctrine; I'm sick of fighting to defend God. I'm sick of *'pretending' that Christianity has all the answers! BECAUSE IT DOESNT!!! (*even though I didn't realise that this is what I was doing a lot of the time)

If God is real; Why can't he just RULE NOW- why do we have to go through these motions!!!!
Get it over with already!

It's really not fair;  that people ( and completely INNOCENT children are beaten, raped and murdered;)
EVERY DAY.

I used to just forcibly put that stuff out of my mind; and comfort myself with the idea that "God knows; and He will bust the evil ones & judge justly. I thought hopefully He let the people not feel the pain & fear so much when they were hurt...

Why would it be such a big deal- if he reached down and helped people that REALLLY NEEDED HIS HELP!; eg; if he saved that little girl from being abducted, raped and murdered; why couldn't he just BLOW the perpetrator up!!!!???

It's just not fair that all this evil is allowed to go on in this world.
It's terribly distressing and depressing.

If God really has thisbig plan of a new kingdom on a new earth etc then WHY DIDN'T HE JUST DO THAT FROM THE BEGINNING!!!

I'm seriously not impressed with this world if God made it.
(and each time I say things like that I feel a bit bad- because I was never one to get angry with God when I was a Christian- I feel like I'm being disrespectful- which I completely am- if he is real.)  :?

The PAIN.
The injustice.
The DEATH.
The evil.

I want it GONE!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I find it hard to believe that there is no point to life.
I don't know if I will ever believe that. :-\

I need a purpose.

HELP!   :-\


Why make us; if he was going to hate us... it's really sad; and it's not fair.
 :'(


.END OF RANT.   Please comfort me in my time of need; anyone. Even God if you're real...  :?

Now everyone will see my story; how I fell away-or nearly did.... who knows how this will turn out....
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 10:17:25 PM by I WANT TRUTH »
Greetings fellow humans; I think I am slowly realising that my brain has been on a holiday for the last 10 years; & now it's finally back; ***I am freaking out at the possible idea that the God of the Bible is not real.  I would currently call myself an AGNOSTIC, as I am unsure if God exists or not.

Offline PinkMilk

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1780
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2009, 08:57:49 AM »
Anyway; I want to say this publically ; that IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!!!
It's not fair that we are born into this world- and that we have NO IDEA *why* we are here.
It doesn't seem to bother some people- (like it never used to bother me before I became a Christian)~but NOW it bothers me.
It's not that it isn't fair.  If you weren't here you wouldn't be able to wonder these things.  Theism monopolizes on answering why's.  Why we are here is a time old question.  Why only matters in the eyes of religion really.  When you look at where we came from, there is no why.  No one put us on this earth for a purpose.  The purpose to life is whatever you make it. 
Quote
What are we meant to be doing with our time? How are we meant to act? Does it even matter?
These are all questions you must answer for yourself.  It's easy to just dismiss these questions to the whim of a deity.  It's not as easy to really think about these answers for yourself.  What are you meant to be doing with your time?  Whatever you find meaningful. How are we meant to act?  Nature sort of dictates that one.  As a species we are not likely to behave in a manner that is likely to wipe us off the face of the planet.  Just as with other apes, we are inclined to do things that are most beneficial for us.  This of course naturally means helping others out.  If you help no one or step all over them, they are not likely to help you when you need help.  The Selfish Gene is a great book to read about that.
Quote
If God is real- why didn't He make it easier and simpler!

If He is real & the Bible is his word- then why not make the bible better than it is!? ... Because it's confusing and it does my head in- I have studied it heaps; and it never gets easier-(& I have no idea how more 'simpler' people can even comprehend it! )
One of the first signs that the bible is not the word of god is the fact that it can be taken to mean so many things.  If the bible was the word of god, then it would lead to only religion. 
Quote
There is always something to completely confuse you! I also wondered why it's not full of better information- rather than, blah, blah blah blah blah- I wanted some PRACTIAL info; and why did SO much have to be repeated... & couldn't it have been put into a simpler format?!...and couldn't the bible tell us MORE about this 'GOD' !!!???    ... agaahahgahhhh  ...Why does it all have to be clothed in darkness and mystery!!!?
The OT tells more about god than the NT, and let me just say this, if there was a god is the god of the OT really the god you'd want/think is in control?
Quote
I used to love the old testament- well some of it; coz I thought I was really getting to know my creator- but I did not like all that I read...
 
I know so many people that misquote the Bible- or just make their own stuff up & say that it's in there...and people that interpret passages erroneously...

I am sick of talking about doctrine; I'm sick of fighting to defend God. I'm sick of *'pretending' that Christianity has all the answers! BECAUSE IT DOESNT!!! (*even though I didn't realise that this is what I was doing a lot of the time)
That's good that you don't want to do this any more.  One of the big problems with religion is that the religious don't stand up against the bad things or the lies that are told by their given brand.  They allow it to go on.  Yet when another religion or an atheist makes a comment, they're all up in arms about that.  People should seek the truth and seek to support it. 
Quote
If God is real; Why can't he just RULE NOW- why do we have to go through these motions!!!!
Get it over with already!

IF being the key word. 
Quote
It's really not fair;  that people ( and completely INNOCENT children are beaten, raped and murdered;)
EVERY DAY.
It's not fair, but it's life.  Passing these problems off as part of god's plan isn't helping anything. 



I can see where your coming from but on the other hand i dont want my kid to learn about evolution or see homosexualisom talked about in a scince classs ethier. <-- From Youguysarepathetic

At least I have a mother. Have you? (serious question) <---From Skylark889

Offline DL


Offline kin hell

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5379
  • Darwins +152/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • - .... . .-. . /.. ... / -. --- / --. --- -.. ...
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2009, 08:59:37 AM »
Personally I'd take the supposed insult   "your faith is weak"    to read as the complimentary   "your intellectual honesty is strong".


There will be v. few here who'll be able to comfort you back to christ. It is an atheist forum after all.


But let me be the third to welcome you back to the real world.

The god illusion you've been under, is a burden, that you'll eventually come to realise is much better being out from under.

Have a look around the forum. All indication here seems to be that freedom from the dementia of the manmade god-invention, has uplifted the majority of atheists who've ever commented here.

I wish you the easiest transition possible. but consider yourself one of the lucky ones.  As hard as that may be to see.

Life is great enough. Being alive is a rarest gift of chance.
Why do we sully it with the poisonous filter of primitive based imagination and idiot religious structures?


.............enjoy fellow earthling   ..............enjoy a second birth into life without the "supernatural".
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 10:49:11 PM by kin hell »
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Hermes

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 9988
  • Darwins +2/-0
  • 1600 years of oppression ends; Zeus is worshiped.
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2009, 09:17:47 AM »
I Want Truth, no need to worry.

Reality at it's core hasn't changed one bit.

If you want to talk, there are plenty of people who would be glad to do that here, but you might find some other forums more hospitable, regardless of what your thoughts end up being.  A couple good ones that come to mind are;

Ex-Christian - "This site is designed with the intention of encouraging ex-Christians, former Christians, de-converting Christians and other non-believers in the decision to live life based on rational thought rather than religious mythology."

Blog and other resources: http://exchristian.net
Discussion forums: http://ex-christian.net

de-conversion - "This blog attempts to critically, but respectfully, address issues with ... religious ideologies, especially Christianity."

Blog and other resources: http://de-conversion.com
Discussion forums: http://deconversion.org
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline jynnan tonnix

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1780
  • Darwins +88/-1
  • Gender: Female
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2009, 09:17:57 AM »
Welcome!!

It is great, I think, to see people in the process of transition on this site. Whichever side of the fence you eventually land on, it's fascinating to observe new ideas taking root.

Not to make you feel like something in a test tube! I'm sorry you are going through such trauma over this, but since almost everyone here is pretty firmly on one side or the other I think that you may have a lot to add to the forum. Hopefully, if you do shed your belief, you will find the support here to make it easier, and alleviate some of the guilt you are going through.

Offline Petey

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 882
  • Darwins +11/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2009, 09:43:35 AM »
Welcome, I WANT TRUTH.

Like PinkMilk said, we can't really answer the "meaning" and "purpose" questions.  You need to figure those out for yourself.  I'm sure we can come up with lots of suggestions, but we can't impose any of them on you.

Ironically, this is exactly what religion does.  It preys on mankind's natural curiosity and spoon-feeds "answers" to those difficult questions.  For many people, this satisfies their curiosity, while at the same time giving them comfort with the idea of being watched over by a personal father figure in the sky.  This is definitely the easy path.  The believer never has to wonder about these difficult questions again.

A good correlation example for this would be the time in a toddler's or young child's life when they are forced to give up their pacifier or favorite blanket.  They don't want to let go of this object because it gives them comfort whenever they are scared or confused.  Yet the parent takes the object away because they know that in the long run it will be better for the child.

Skepticism is the mechanism that encourages people to let go of their "security blanket" of religion.  I won't sugar coat it...it's extremely difficult.  Not only are you giving up something that makes you feel good, but you're doing it all on your own, without the help of a parent forcibly taking that something away.  After being exposed to religion, it can be quite terrifying to face the notion of dealing with reality on your own.  You can ask any one of dozens here on this board, and you will find that they went through similar struggles themselves.  However, I'm 100% sure that each and every one of them will agree that the struggle was worth it in the long run.  They are now stronger, more confident, and above all, free.  Free to answer those questions and others for themselves, and free to face reality as it is rather than hiding behind the blanket of religion.

The journey isn't for everyone.  It can be terrifying, confusing, and mentally exhausting...sometimes all at once.  But if you're strong enough to make it through the journey, the reward is definitely worth the effort.  Good luck!
He never pays attention, he always knows the answer, and he can never tell you how he knows. We can't keep thrashing him. He is a bad example to the other pupils. There's no educating a smart boy.
-– Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time

Offline Nick

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10404
  • Darwins +185/-8
  • Gender: Male
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2009, 10:03:23 AM »
Religion has a way of making us see and believe what can't be possible.  You sound like rational thought is trying to enter your head.  Congrats...come in, the water is fine (and it is not holy water). :D
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline superfly

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 686
  • Darwins +4/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • go ride a bicycle
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2009, 10:14:57 AM »
It's not fair that we are born into this world- and that we have NO IDEA *why* we are here.

When i was a doubting Jesusist, that was a big sticking point for me. It probably kept me "believing" for a while until i figured out that there really doesn't have to be a "why" to our existence.

We're here. That's it. Live your life, Have fun, be kind.
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
Kurt Vonnegut

Offline I am become relevant

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 568
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2009, 10:16:31 AM »
Hello there my fellow fencer  ;).
I kind of get your situation. This is how I relax my self most of the time. When I think 'blasphemous' thoughts I just tell myself that if god really was planning to judge us he'd forgive me since he knew how I came up with these rational thoughts, using my brain which he so graciously provided.  :)
I is back.

I'm a muslim.
No I won't email you a bomb if you tick me off, but only because I don't know how to.

Offline Eschaton

Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 10:31:40 AM »
Hey hot pants,

Wanna come back to my place for lunch and a roll in the hay? Just teasing ...

To the discerning mind, observing that man is but a microscopic atom in a universe immeasurably vast, must occur the question: What is the object of life?

 Foolish is the notion that Man's end in life is to worship God. For its underlying assumption is that significance must be externally conferred, giving rise to the question: What is God's meaning of life? Who confers significance upon Him? From this we may draw the inference that meaning can be innately derived without recourse to the powers and principalities of the air. Who shall give us a definitive answer then? Owing to the kaleidoscopic array of human variety, given the multitudes of personality types, imposing a one-size-fits-all model is immoderately silly.

Mo - The Epicurean Curmudgeon


It is an absurdity to believe that the Deity has human passions, and one of the lowest of human passions, a restless appetite for applause.

David Hume

Offline ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6465
  • Darwins +769/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2009, 10:39:55 AM »

I find it hard to believe that there is no point to life.
I don't know if I will ever believe that. :-\

I need a purpose.

HELP!   :-\


I WANT TRUTH, you're in luck. Unencumbered by an artificial superior being, you get to be a human being, and define your purpose in life yourself. You may feel it important to help others, or to contribute to the world through your work, or to be a friend to all good people. Those are pretty good purposes. Letting everything be defined by an non-existent, inconsistent being for whom there is no actual evidence just foists the responsibility behind purpose onto the imagination of others. If you can learn to bypass the mythologies, you can assign purpose to your life. Not in a higher, god-guy sense, but in a human one.

Any purpose assigned by religion is made up. You're settling for second best. Well, much worse than second best.

As far as I can tell, there is no "ultimate" purpose. But it is possible as a human to exist and live a purposeful life. Being good, doing good things, caring and contributing. Or you can suck the life out of everyone around you by saying "Jesus loves you". You know from personal experience that can sound good, but it contributes little to "purpose" because all it gives is false hope. Living for an after-death paradise that doesn't exist takes all the purpose out of the ones life now. I don't see that as an improvement in anyway.

Be careful what questions you ask. You can box yourself into a corner very quickly. If your questions are causing huge amounts of turmoil, it my be that you are asking the unanswerable ones. Make them simpler and more realistic. You'll find some answers.

By the way, all the pain and stuff in the world. Inevitable. Some is very natural. Earthquakes and cancer, for instance. Other pain doesn't need to exist. Suicide bombers in Iraq and the shooter at Ft. Hood are good examples. Criminals, car wrecks, big government: all are examples of failed or careless humans and failed or careless human endeavors. But tossing a god into the mix, trying to include an omnipotent being who loves us and lets crap happen, only further confuses the issue. In the case of cancer, for instance, great strides have been made in treating and/or curing the disease. But imagine how much further we'd be along in such research if we had twice as many researchers instead of half researching while the other half does nothing but pray.

Good luck in your new search. Most of us here at WWGHA know which direction you should go. But we're not omnipotent, so all we can do is give you actual information.

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline GetMeThere

Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2009, 10:51:53 AM »
Welcome I WANT TRUTH!

Great name! And it evinces something I've seen again and again: The deconverted inevitably discover and express their RELIEF that they no long HAVE to believe anything--and that they can try to discover what is REALLY TRUE with no constrictions. There are endless deconversion stories on youtube where people speak of the LIBERATION of discovering that they OWN THEIR OWN LIVES, and are free to make the best of them--on their own terms. And indeed, what could be more meaningful than that? How could there even BEGIN to be meaning if you're "boxed in" to "a system" (like a particular religion) that has all the answers ALREADY PACKAGED FOR YOU? In that kind of system is doesn't MATTER what you think or feel; it only matters whether you're FOLLOWING THE RULES and are accepted by the big boss. That's meaningful?

Offline Hermes

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 9988
  • Darwins +2/-0
  • 1600 years of oppression ends; Zeus is worshiped.
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2009, 10:56:39 AM »
The Reditors have arrived ... look at the # of guests.

Trackback: http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/a2hv2/its_all_so_confusing_completely_unfair_a_devout/
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Cycle4Fun

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1371
  • Darwins +2/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2009, 12:32:41 PM »
The Reditors have arrived ... look at the # of guests.

Guests are never a bad thing.  Perhaps a theist will finally provide a reason to think a god exists.  Perhaps other theists will see that it's OK to be an atheist.  Perhaps they'll see we aren't hopeless devil worshipers after all.

I WANT TRUTH, I was once a Christian myself.  Most of the atheists on this sight are deconverts as well.  Several years ago I set out looking for the truth as well.  I vowed to myself that I would follow the evidence to wherever conclusion it led.  In my search for the truth I found contradictory stories in the Bible; stories that changed and became more fantastic as the time of writing grew (New Testament), stories that could never have happened and if they did should have left mountains of evidence (Noah), stories that didn't happen (Exodus and the Roman census), and a town of the birthplace of my savior that doesn't appear existed at the time.  I searched far and wide for a reason to think a god exists (apologetics).  I didn't find any.

With my last shred of faith, I read the Bible.  What I found was a god not worthy of worship.  God was a being worthy of nothing buy scorn and condemnation.  Murdering innocent children?  Murdering over a bet?  God loves me, but I'll burn in hell forever if I don't accept him into my heart and worship him?  No, this wasn't the god I had worshiped.  I had been worshiping the nice Sunday school god taught in the sermons.  The god I had been worshiping had been changed to fit the modern times and modern views of morality.  I was glad that there was no reason to think a being as terrible as God had ever existed.

It's not an easy transition to take complete responsibility for one's own life and actions.  It has its own rewards though.  When I help my elderly neighbor with her groceries, I don't do it because I expect a reward later.  I don't do it because a book tells me too.  I do it for the simple joy her smile and thanks brings me.

You'll find happiness and contentment wherever you end up.  If you find a reason, or convincing evidence to think a god exists, let us know.  I really am interested.  That's one of the reasons I keep coming back to the site.
How do you define soul?
"A baseless assertion by simple-minded, superstitious individuals"
   -Starstuff

Offline MonkeyDaddy

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 273
  • Darwins +0/-0
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2009, 01:12:26 PM »
Bookmark
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson

Offline Hermes

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 9988
  • Darwins +2/-0
  • 1600 years of oppression ends; Zeus is worshiped.
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2009, 02:55:07 PM »
The Reditors have arrived ... look at the # of guests.

Guests are never a bad thing.

I agree.  Currently there are 804 guests.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Master

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 555
  • Darwins +0/-0
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2009, 04:22:17 PM »
I find it hard to believe that there is no point to life.
I don't know if I will ever believe that. :-\

I need a purpose.
that is basically one of the most essential reasons why man created gods for a really long time.
Quote
"a man can surely do what he wills to do, but cannot determine what he wills."
http://www.determinism.com/05042002.shtml

Offline StPatrick

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1273
  • Darwins +2/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • The patron saint of WWGHA
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2009, 04:47:21 PM »
Welcome to the forum, IWT.  I just feel compelled to comment on this:

Quote

I find it hard to believe that there is no point to life.
I don't know if I will ever believe that.  :-\
I need a purpose.

Your purpose in life is whatever you make it.  It's just that there's no predetermined purpose, is all.
If we come together and do not fight over religion, class and borders then we hold the key to a peaceful world. There are two possible futures in store; either a March of power and greed or a March of a unified human race.

Offline Noman Peopled

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1904
  • Darwins +24/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • [insert wittycism]
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2009, 06:47:19 PM »
As I often do in such cases, I will not read the thread before posting, in order to ensure that my response is not influenced by other forumgoers. Sorry for any repetition. Also, it's late, so if you find spelling errors you can keep them.
[/disclaimer]


I can sympathize. When I lost what was left of my faith, I experienced a period of moral uncertainty (I was fourteen or fifteen at the time.) In the end, I found my "loss" to be liberating though. My purpose in life, while vague and arbitrary (as opposed to random) was not longer the result of an outside source.



Anyway; I want to say this publically ; that IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!!!
It's not fair that we are born into this world- and that we have NO IDEA *why* we are here.
It doesn't seem to bother some people- (like it never used to bother me before I became a Christian)~but NOW it bothers me.

What are we meant to be doing with our time? How are we meant to act? Does it even matter?
I have always been baffled by this since I was around fourteen. Asking "why, what's the sense of it all?" is a loaded question, assuming there is a reason, a sense. Assumne there isn't, and the problematic of fairness never arises. Stuff just happens - now, how to deal with it?
Of course, that realization is not very helpful, and neither was it to me. I will say that it was all kinds of liberating in the end to realize that there is no intrinsic sense to life. I still struggle with the problem, but I much prefer it to false comfort. Better to recognize a problem and not be able to solve it than not recognize it at all.

Quote
I find it hard to believe that there is no point to life.
I don't know if I will ever believe that. :-\

I need a purpose.

HELP!   :-\
We can't help you directly, I think. If you think that your life is without reason, than that's what it is. However, I think you may well be in a temporary depression which is only natural - but fleeting. Paradigm shifts often do that. Don't let it take you over - it's part of you, not the whole of you.
Identify what gives your life meaning in your opinion. Do you enjoy helping people? Do you enjoy loving someone, and being loved in return? Do you like playing games, sports, doing research, etc? Have you really stopped enjoying those things because of your current belief crisis? Have you really found them all senseless to the point where you ceased to pursue them?
One thing that helped me was recognizing that my opinions hadn't changed all that much, only my perception of myself. My sense of purpose hadn't been godgiven; it was mine, and subjective, and not part of a higher purpose, but it was still there.

Personally, over time I recognized that my reasons for living were no less important to me for not being objective.
I can't really say if this will apply (since my faith-pressure was self-imposed) but depending on your surroundings it may help to just count the number of things about you that haven't changed at all. You'll most likely realize that you are very much the person you were before, and worth no less for being doubtful, confused, or depressed.
I know I'm still confused about many things. Still, being confused is much better than being deluded; being confused implies a search for truth. I regard this as my purpose in life. (One of them, anyway.)




I'm not sure if this was comforting but I sure hope it was helpful. There's no sugarcoating to be done about going from strong belief to strong doubt.
Since on rereading I found my whole post rather morose I'd like to stress that losing faith in christianity's god was the best thing that every happened to me. If anything is unclear (or if you have questions - or anything, really), I'll be available again in the European morning ...
"Deferinate" itself appears to be a new word... though I'm perfectly carmotic with it.
-xphobe

Offline voodoo child

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1823
  • Darwins +10/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2009, 06:56:00 PM »
sheding self made guilt is a difficult path, but easily achieved. don't worry your not alone.
life is pretty darn good with a new sunrise every day, a new surprise around the corner, all you have to do is look. 

take what you have learned in this life and move on to enjoying the garden, knowing full well there is no fairy's there amongst the Daisy's.    ;D

welcome to the site IWT
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline heathen

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 257
  • Darwins +0/-0
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2009, 07:01:07 PM »
I'd suggest you try a couple of books:

Mere Christianity by C S Lewis

The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins

Which one works best for you?

Take your time and then take your decision

Kind regards

Heathen
Love seeks one thing only: the good of the one loved. It leaves all the other secondary effects to take care of themselves. Love, therefore, is its own reward.
Thomas Merton

Offline shnozzola

Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2009, 07:07:02 PM »
Let me give you some advice, I WANT TRUTH.  Relax, enjoy, and let life come to you.  There is a great play called, “You can’t take it with you,” starring Jason Robards.  See it.

Laugh alot, dance, and cook great food.  Ignore the news on the tube, and youtube - most of it affects us far less than we realize. 
 
It really doesn’t bother me a bit if god exists or not, because music, pingpong, and strawberries exist, and absolutely nothing is as important as we think it is, and who cares if it is important, anyway.

Try to have fun ALL THE TIME – we don’t have much time, after all.  If you feel like you absolutely must do something important, go out in the country to a home for the elderly and listen to their stories.
“The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something."  ~ T. H. White
  The real holy trinity:  onion, celery, and bell pepper ~  all Cajun Chefs

Offline I WANT TRUTH

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2009, 09:44:48 PM »
WOW :o

Thanks for your replies- you guys don't waste anytime! 
I think I'll have to reread all that info again coz there was a lot there.

Thanks to the people that made me laugh; :-) it feels good to laugh.
It seems to de-stress me... & I've noticed that listening to music & even the sound of cars driving past relaxes me too...

You see, my mind will not SHUT UP! Even as a Christian; I constantly worried if I was right with God. I only sometimes briefly felt like I was right with Him. I never felt good enough. I know that Christians say we are not saved by works, however it is clear that faith without works is dead,  & that if we don't do good works & live righteous lives, we don't know Him.

Anyway; It is just such a struggle; I just never feel like I can relax. I often think about the starving people; & that I should help them; & how can we just live our prosperous lives happily here why they suffer...

& it seems so pointless to just talk about words (doctrines, scripture etc) with others; because what is that really accomplishing?... all our efforts could really be put into something practical.
(I used to think- it was constructive to discuss doctrine etc; because if the God of the Bible is real; then He wants all to realise His ideas and way...so I was working for Him.)

Now I can see that it clearly looks like a GIANT WASTE OF TIME & EFFORT. Especially after I joined facebook I have been able to see the zeal many believers in *God have- (*whether they are muslims, hindus, or christians of various brands.)   The people devote their lives to testifying to others about their ideas of God.  They all cant be right; and after reading the WWGHA website & other stuff;

eg:  http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com/your-delusion.htm

I can see that there really is no proof for any particular view of God over any other.

I think I do have a lot to write (I need to get my thoughts out) and I feel like writing it here; because I feel that maybe you will understand me here.  I saw these clips on utube linked from here; & it makes sense to me.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Evid3nc3#p/u/5/12rP8ybp13s   

...to be continued...
Greetings fellow humans; I think I am slowly realising that my brain has been on a holiday for the last 10 years; & now it's finally back; ***I am freaking out at the possible idea that the God of the Bible is not real.  I would currently call myself an AGNOSTIC, as I am unsure if God exists or not.

Offline Hermes

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 9988
  • Darwins +2/-0
  • 1600 years of oppression ends; Zeus is worshiped.
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2009, 09:51:58 PM »
Glad to see you come back.  Take your time.  No atheist mafia is going to come over and ask you for 10% of your income, nor demand you to believe a slate of ideas.  Bonus!  We have great sandwiches!



Available at the snack bar, even if you remain on the fence.  (Card carrying atheists do get 1/2 off on Tuesdays.  Yum!)
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline GetMeThere

Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2009, 10:00:40 PM »
I'd just like to remind you, Hermes, that raw baby can be a Salmonella risk. At minimum they should be given a good pan searing. Ideally, they should reach an internal temperature of 165 F.

It's been years since I've had raw baby; and I think I'm better off for it.

Offline PinkMilk

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1780
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2009, 10:06:28 PM »
WOW :o

Thanks for your replies- you guys don't waste anytime! 
I think I'll have to reread all that info again coz there was a lot there.

Thanks to the people that made me laugh; :-) it feels good to laugh.
It seems to de-stress me... & I've noticed that listening to music & even the sound of cars driving past relaxes me too...
Speaking from a psychological point of view, it seems that you are relaxed by auditory stimuli and that perhaps you are a very auditory learner.  I'd highly recommend that you do some youtube searches to find some videos and also search for podcasts related to the subject at hand.  I think this may really help you.  If I'm wrong I apologize, but that is what it sounds like from what you've said.
Quote
You see, my mind will not SHUT UP! Even as a Christian; I constantly worried if I was right with God. I only sometimes briefly felt like I was right with Him. I never felt good enough. I know that Christians say we are not saved by works, however it is clear that faith without works is dead,  & that if we don't do good works & live righteous lives, we don't know Him.
theists in general are all about talking and not really doing things.  Even the ones who do things tend to do things only because they feel it will make them right with god.  Taking action purely because you recognize action needs to be taken holds more meaning.
Quote
Anyway; It is just such a struggle; I just never feel like I can relax. I often think about the starving people; & that I should help them; & how can we just live our prosperous lives happily here why they suffer...
It is unfortunate that people live in certain conditions.  There are tons of things you can do.  Most people choose to donate money to charities (those I advise you look into the charities you donate to, see how much money actually goes to the cause and how much goes to other expenses), others volunteer to help the less fortunate in their own country, state, county, what have you.  Others choose to contribute in different ways.  The way I see it, you are fortunate enough to not be born in one of those countries.  Those people should not go ignored, but we should not ignore the life style that we aspire for everyone in order to achieve it for those who do not have it. (I truly hope this makes sense).  In short, we should appreciate what we have and aspire to the same goals step by step for those less fortunate.
Quote
& it seems so pointless to just talk about words (doctrines, scripture etc) with others; because what is that really accomplishing?... all our efforts could really be put into something practical.
It is always refreshing to hear this.  Actions speak louder than words.  This is a time old saying that beats out religion any day.  
Quote
(I used to think- it was constructive to discuss doctrine etc; because if the God of the Bible is real; then He wants all to realise His ideas and way...so I was working for Him.)
The god of the bible would be able to do all these things without humans realizing that it is a possibility.  
Quote
Now I can see that it clearly looks like a GIANT WASTE OF TIME & EFFORT. Especially after I joined facebook I have been able to see the zeal many believers in *God have- (*whether they are muslims, hindus, or christians of various brands.)   The people devote their lives to testifying to others about their ideas of God.  They all cant be right; and after reading the WWGHA website & other stuff;
This is one of my biggest things, especially with christianity.  If the bible is correct, there shouldn't be more than one denomination of christianity.  But there are indeed many, and there are many who disagree to a great degree.  
Quote
eg:  http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com/your-delusion.htm
Quote
I can see that there really is no proof for any particular view of God over any other.
The only god that it is impossible to disprove 100% (though is still very unlikely) is a deistic god.
Quote
I think I do have a lot to write (I need to get my thoughts out) and I feel like writing it here; because I feel that maybe you will understand me here.  I saw these clips on utube linked from here; & it makes sense to me.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Evid3nc3#p/u/5/12rP8ybp13s   

...to be continued...
I truly do hope that you find some console in the support/comments you receive here.  This may just be the counselor in me coming out, but I know from others experiences that this is a difficult transition.  I truly wish the best for you, no matter what your ultimate decision is.  Just know that you are not alone in the feelings you are experiencing.  I know many atheists who have experienced feelings similar to yours.
I can see where your coming from but on the other hand i dont want my kid to learn about evolution or see homosexualisom talked about in a scince classs ethier. <-- From Youguysarepathetic

At least I have a mother. Have you? (serious question) <---From Skylark889

Offline Hermes

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 9988
  • Darwins +2/-0
  • 1600 years of oppression ends; Zeus is worshiped.
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2009, 10:10:51 PM »
I'd just like to remind you, Hermes, that raw baby can be a Salmonella risk. At minimum they should be given a good pan searing. Ideally, they should reach an internal temperature of 165 F.

It's been years since I've had raw baby; and I think I'm better off for it.

I bet you're against raw milk and shucked oysters too -- heretic!   :P
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline DisdainDavid

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1354
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Almighty Zeus
Re: IT'S ALL SO CONFUSING & COMPLETELY UNFAIR :-( ***IS ANYONE OUT THERE?
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2009, 10:15:48 PM »
I'd just like to remind you, Hermes, that raw baby can be a Salmonella risk. At minimum they should be given a good pan searing. Ideally, they should reach an internal temperature of 165 F.

It's been years since I've had raw baby; and I think I'm better off for it.

I bet you're against raw milk and shucked oysters too -- heretic!   :P

Indeed.  GetMeThere has clearly blasphemed against the god(s?) of atheism and must be punished.  After consulting the true godtm it has been determined that he shall suffer one billion years of pegging. 
I will stop to contribute in this thread until some one shows up and seem to have brain. -- Master

It's a shame how you put your trust in theories that keep on changing. Bible has stayed the same for thousands of years [. . .]  -- Skylark889