Author Topic: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]  (Read 3108 times)

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Offline DL

interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« on: November 02, 2009, 08:38:09 PM »
I just want to ask you some questions. I'm assuming you're an evolutionist. By the way, I'm not a Christian, I'm just arguing for the sake of rationality.
1. The law of Physics says Energy cannot be created or destroyed, how therefore can you justify the Big Bang?
2.The probability of Earth being created by Chance is so astronomically small, that it is too improbable to count as evidence.
3.Even Darwin said, If there are not hundreds of transitional fossils found, my theory is incorrect, and today, we have even less transitional fossils than in Darwins time.
4.Evolution cannot create complex objects or facilitate the change from a simple organism to a complex organism because small and random changes are insignificant unless they are part of a whole.
5.Evolution is a constant process, so why are things not evolving today?
6.If Evolution is not a constant process, and we have reached the climax of organisms and will  not evolve further, what determined our stage to be the last stage?
7.The process of Carbon Dating is unreliable because so many assumptions are made that affect calculations.
8.Archaeological layers in the earth, as defined by Evolution are incorrect due to the fact that they are based on Carbon Dating, and the process of cyclic layers is not taken into account.
9.There is not one example of genetic mutations that add and enhance a species, therefore evolution is unfounded.
Oh, and by the way, I answered each of your questions. Used logic. Maybe you should consider it. Your main incorrect assumptions were: You know better than God, You know the entire human race and all of their deeds, You are not taking responisbility for what we have done oh and You havn't done your research.
It's been interesting but logically unchallenging.
Thankyou

Offline Frank

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2009, 08:51:45 PM »
I just want to ask you some questions. I'm assuming you're an evolutionist. By the way, I'm not a Christian, I'm just arguing for the sake of rationality.
1. The law of Physics says Energy cannot be created or destroyed, how therefore can you justify the Big Bang?
2.The probability of Earth being created by Chance is so astronomically small, that it is too improbable to count as evidence.
3.Even Darwin said, If there are not hundreds of transitional fossils found, my theory is incorrect, and today, we have even less transitional fossils than in Darwins time.
4.Evolution cannot create complex objects or facilitate the change from a simple organism to a complex organism because small and random changes are insignificant unless they are part of a whole.
5.Evolution is a constant process, so why are things not evolving today?
6.If Evolution is not a constant process, and we have reached the climax of organisms and will  not evolve further, what determined our stage to be the last stage?
7.The process of Carbon Dating is unreliable because so many assumptions are made that affect calculations.
8.Archaeological layers in the earth, as defined by Evolution are incorrect due to the fact that they are based on Carbon Dating, and the process of cyclic layers is not taken into account.
9.There is not one example of genetic mutations that add and enhance a species, therefore evolution is unfounded.
Oh, and by the way, I answered each of your questions. Used logic. Maybe you should consider it. Your main incorrect assumptions were: You know better than God, You know the entire human race and all of their deeds, You are not taking responisbility for what we have done oh and You havn't done your research.
It's been interesting but logically unchallenging.
Thankyou

Not a christian? Yeah right.

Lets go with your ideas. Talking snakes, fire and brimstone, trees of knowledge, worldwide flood, 6000 year old universe, 600 year old geezer builds huge ship. Yeah makes perfect sense. What was I thinking. Doh!!
"Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions fall away, atheism is what is left behind".

Offline Zankuu

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2009, 08:56:19 PM »
Wtf is an "evolutionist"?

Stop making up words.... creationist.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline PeterRabbit

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2009, 08:57:11 PM »

Offline Emily

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2009, 08:57:27 PM »
Quote
1. The law of Physics says Energy cannot be created or destroyed, how therefore can you justify the Big Bang?

You seem to have conveniently left out a small, yet important part of the conservation of matter that states that matter can be rearranged.
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline MadBunny

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2009, 08:58:15 PM »
an evolutionist?

Here, let me show you how evolution works.
It's pretty simple, but because of the TOS policy on photobucket, I'll need to use a metaphor. 

Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2009, 08:59:13 PM »
Wtf is an "evolutionist"?

Stop making up words.... creationist.

Why, I do believe that it is one of those damnable creature who have been influenced by that young Mr Darwin.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline GetMeThere

Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2009, 09:07:34 PM »
I'm not a Christian, I'm just arguing for the sake of rationality.

I'm Marilyn Monroe, I'm just on the forum to firm up my breasts.

Offline Zankuu

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2009, 09:09:32 PM »
I'm not a Christian, I'm just arguing for the sake of rationality.

I'm Marilyn Monroe, I'm just on the forum to firm up my breasts.

LOL.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline Dkit

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2009, 09:16:17 PM »
Who's going to count how many mistakes are in this email? 
"The Bible is a Banquet table not a snack tray!" - Anonymous Facebook User

Offline GetMeThere

Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2009, 09:23:53 PM »
Who's going to count how many mistakes are in this email?

It can't be done.

Offline Dkit

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2009, 09:31:22 PM »
Who's going to count how many mistakes are in this email?

It can't be done.
Don't be a killjoy.   ;D
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Offline MadBunny

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2009, 09:34:31 PM »
Who's going to count how many mistakes are in this email?

It can't be done.
Don't be a killjoy.   ;D


A visual description of the OP.
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline voodoo child

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2009, 09:35:28 PM »
Who's going to count how many mistakes are in this email?

It can't be done.
Don't be a killjoy.   ;D

well I count ten retarded points. and please, WTF is an evolutionist?
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2009, 12:30:23 AM »
I just want to ask you some questions. I'm assuming you're an evolutionist. By the way, I'm not a Christian, I'm just arguing for the sake of rationality.
1. The law of Physics says Energy cannot be created or destroyed, how therefore can you justify the Big Bang?
I don’t care if you’re a Christian or not. Good grief, we’re not going to bite if you say you’re a Christian. I would only bite if you spout stupid stuff.

As for the question, it’s not about evolution if that is what you’re getting at. The Big Bang is actually an expansion.
Quote
2.The probability of Earth being created by Chance is so astronomically small, that it is too improbable to count as evidence.
I don’t know what to tell you other than it cannot be created by a deity because there is no evidence. Even if it is created by a Deity, then which one would that be? Keep in mind that there are thousands of deities.

Quote
3.Even Darwin said, If there are not hundreds of transitional fossils found, my theory is incorrect, and today, we have even less transitional fossils than in Darwins time.
I’m not sure what to say about that because I’m not sure if he did say that or not.
Quote
4.Evolution cannot create complex objects or facilitate the change from a simple organism to a complex organism because small and random changes are insignificant unless they are part of a whole.
You clearly have no idea what evolution is. I suggest taking a class or reading the book on evolution.
Quote
5.Evolution is a constant process, so why are things not evolving today?

Evolution is still occurring. What, did you evolution to show animals popping out babies every second with mixture of genes and traits of their parents? It never stopped evolving.
Quote
6.If Evolution is not a constant process, and we have reached the climax of organisms and will  not evolve further, what determined our stage to be the last stage?
You clearly aren’t getting it. Everything is still evolving, nothing has stopped. Consider the cockroaches. Let’s say if I sprayed a pesticide and killed at least 75% of them and the remaining roaches becomes resistant to the pesticide and procreates more babies that becomes resistant to pesticide. We’re evolving constantly.
Quote
7.The process of Carbon Dating is unreliable because so many assumptions are made that affect calculations.
8.Archaeological layers in the earth, as defined by Evolution are incorrect due to the fact that they are based on Carbon Dating, and the process of cyclic layers is not taken into account.
9.There is not one example of genetic mutations that add and enhance a species, therefore evolution is unfounded.
Oh, and by the way, I answered each of your questions. Used logic. Maybe you should consider it. Your main incorrect assumptions were: You know better than God, You know the entire human race and all of their deeds, You are not taking responisbility for what we have done oh and You havn't done your research.
It's been interesting but logically unchallenging.
Thankyou

What… the… fuck? You have no idea what research I’ve done, or research what others have done. Don’t make that assumption. I never claim that I know everything. Nor would you ever hear me claim that I know everything. But you seem to want quick and easy answers to everything and it goes something like this:

“God did it.”

So I suggest doing some actual research and quit making stupid assertions.
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline Mad Maper

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2009, 02:35:21 AM »

5.Evolution is a constant process, so why are things not evolving today?


In Hospitals there are Antibiotic resistance (super bugs) micro-organism, and why are they there, we started to get rid of infections be using antibiotics which killed the vast majority of them. but the rest that survived had a natural resistance to them and began to multiply creating a new spices in less then 50 years. That is evidence of evolution Today. 
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Offline One Above All

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2009, 02:36:14 AM »
does anyone have that link for two birds which evolved from the same species but are a different species today?
anyone know what i'm talking about?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline xphobe

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2009, 05:38:16 AM »
I just want to ask you some questions. I'm assuming you're an evolutionist. By the way, I'm not a Christian
yeah right.

Quote
, I'm just arguing for the sake of rationality.
And Rationality said to let you know it enjoyed the belly laugh.

Quote
1. The law of Physics says Energy cannot be created or destroyed, how therefore can you justify the Big Bang?
I assume you're referring not to the Big Bang (which was an expansion of the already existing matter/energy), but to the presumed appearance of that matter/energy from nothing, before the Big Bang.  First, it's possible that the matter/energy was always present.  Second, matter/energy appears from nothing all the time.  Google "virtual particles" and "Hawking radiation".  Third, we're talking about a mathematical singularity, and the rules as we know them are undefined in such a case.

Quote
2.The probability of Earth being created by Chance is so astronomically small, that it is too improbable to count as evidence.
There are approximately 100 billion galaxies in the visible Universe, with an average of 100 billion stars each.  To date, we have already discovered over 400 planets outside our own solar system, and that's just the closest, biggest ones - we've only started looking!

Also, there's the possibility that the observable Universe is only a small fraction of the Universe as a whole.  Reality is so mind-bogglingly amazing, who needs to invent mythical deities?

Quote
3.Even Darwin said, If there are not hundreds of transitional fossils found, my theory is incorrect, and today, we have even less transitional fossils than in Darwins time.
How can we have fewer fossils than in Darwin's time?  Are they evaporating?  As a matter of fact, every fossil dug up is a transitional fossil.  Think about it...

Quote
4.Evolution cannot create complex objects or facilitate the change from a simple organism to a complex organism because small and random changes are insignificant unless they are part of a whole.
Can small and random collisions of water molecules with a dust speck not form a complex and symmetrical snow crystal?  Who are you to decide what the whole is?

Quote
5.Evolution is a constant process, so why are things not evolving today?
Things are evolving today.  Where did you hear that they aren't?

Quote
6.If Evolution is not a constant process, and we have reached the climax of organisms and will  not evolve further, what determined our stage to be the last stage?
See above.  You are misinformed.

Quote
7.The process of Carbon Dating is unreliable because so many assumptions are made that affect calculations.
I bet you don't even know what assumptions you're talking about, or how carbon dating works.  Let me help you.

Carbon Dating is based on the assumptions that C14 is produced by cosmic rays in the upper atmosphere at a constant rate, that it is taken in by plant respiration at a constant ratio to C12, that those plants are eaten by animals and therefore the same ratio holds in the bodies of the animals, and that when the plants and animals die the ratio begins to change at a constant rate as C14 decays.  By measuring the amount of change we can determine how old a dead animal is.

It's true that C14 is not always produced at a constant rate.  Solar activity and nuclear testing affect it.  It's true that plants and animals can sometimes preferentially accumulate one isotope of an element over another.   But these factors can be accounted for, correlated with tree rings, ice cores and other methods, and the resulting scale can be quite accurately calibrated.  

Suppose I tell you that according to my watch, a murder occurred 12 hours ago, and you observe that my watch is running fast by about a minute per hour.  Does your observation negate the fact that a murder occurred approximately 12 hours ago?

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8.Archaeological layers in the earth, as defined by Evolution are incorrect due to the fact that they are based on Carbon Dating, and the process of cyclic layers is not taken into account.
I assume you mean radiometric dating, because Carbon dating is used to date organic matter, not rock layers.  And it's only useful up to about ten half-lives or 50,000 years.  If a sample is older than that, there's too little C14 left in it to measure reliably.  Beyond that, there are many other methods of radiometric dating available.  Each one comes with assumptions of course, but then so does any clock.

No conceivable combination of erroneous assumptions could possibly lead all the various forms of radiometric and other dating methods to indicate that the earth is very, very old when it was in fact created 6000 years ago.  The very idea is absurd.

"cyclic layers"?  What the hell are you talking about?

Quote
9.There is not one example of genetic mutations that add and enhance a species, therefore evolution is unfounded.
Genetic mutations in bacteria which confer antibiotic resistance seem to be an enhancement - at least, as far as the bacteria are concerned.

Some humans have developed a genetic mutation that makes them more resistant to HIV.

Also, consider this: a mutation that is actually harmful would contribute to the death of its host.  So over the course of countless generations of life on this planet, it could be argued that most mutations are beneficial, or at the least neutral.

Quote
Oh, and by the way, I answered each of your questions. Used logic. Maybe you should consider it. Your main incorrect assumptions were: You know better than God, You know the entire human race and all of their deeds, You are not taking responisbility for what we have done oh and You havn't done your research.
It's been interesting but logically unchallenging.
Thankyou

I can understand why you might feel that way.  It's called the Dunning-Kruger effect.  If you've read through this thread and still want to talk to us, we're always up for a lively discussion.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 06:04:18 AM by xphobe »
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Offline mommykicksbutt

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2009, 06:34:29 AM »
I'm assuming you're an evolutionist.

What!?!


Quote
By the way, I'm not a Christian,

yeah, right, I've got a bridge in Arizona for sale cheap - you interested?


Quote
1. The law of Physics says Energy cannot be created or destroyed, how therefore can you justify the Big Bang?


source please, the elementary level of basic physical science does say this but as you continue to study into physics you will learn more, you just haven't gotten there yet, keep studying and researching it and eventually you will understand "rearrangement."  How do you justify your stance in opposition to the Big Bang?  Please provide verifiable evidence to such.


Quote
2.The probability of Earth being created by Chance is so astronomically small, that it is too improbable to count as evidence.

source please.  The fact that you exist should demonstrate that there was obviously enough of a 'chance' for it, so you don't count?


Quote
3.Even Darwin said, If there are not hundreds of transitional fossils found, my theory is incorrect, and today, we have even less transitional fossils than in Darwins time.

proof please or you are just blowing this out your arse


Quote
4.Evolution cannot create complex objects or facilitate the change from a simple organism to a complex organism because small and random changes are insignificant unless they are part of a whole.

*sigh* proof please


Quote
5.Evolution is a constant process, so why are things not evolving today?

wake up and pay attention!  Take the god-goggles off, they are narrowing and clouding your view of what is happening around you.


Quote
6.If Evolution is not a constant process, and we have reached the climax of organisms and will  not evolve further, what determined our stage to be the last stage?

*face palm* everything is still evolving, what you see around you is just the current stage of which you are observing, that's all.  


Quote
7.The process of Carbon Dating is unreliable because so many assumptions are made that affect calculations.

what!?!  proof please


Quote
8.Archaeological layers in the earth, as defined by Evolution are incorrect due to the fact that they are based on Carbon Dating, and the process of cyclic layers is not taken into account.

proof please


Quote
9.There is not one example of genetic mutations that add and enhance a species, therefore evolution is unfounded.

what!?! are you really that dim?  You seriously need to get out of the pew and into school.


You have made it quite obvious that you have done no (nada, zilch, zero, squat) research for your baseless statements and are only blowing foul wind out your arse.  Please blow somewhere else because you stink.

« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 06:36:48 AM by mommykicksbutt »
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2009, 06:40:21 AM »
bm sigs
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Cynic

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2009, 06:43:47 AM »
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Not a christian? Yeah right.


It is possible that the person who posted this is Jewish or Muslim
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At least two thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity, idealism, dogmatism and proselytizing zeal on behalf of religious or political idols.
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Offline MadBunny

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2009, 11:21:08 AM »

5.Evolution is a constant process, so why are things not evolving today?


In Hospitals there are Antibiotic resistance (super bugs) micro-organism, and why are they there, we started to get rid of infections be using antibiotics which killed the vast majority of them. but the rest that survived had a natural resistance to them and began to multiply creating a new spices in less then 50 years. That is evidence of evolution Today. 


Welcome to the forum!

You are correct, this is how it works, and also shows the strength of having some small amount of genetic divergence.
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline velkyn

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2009, 01:10:55 PM »
Quote
Oh, and by the way, I answered each of your questions. Used logic. Maybe you should consider it. Your main incorrect assumptions were: You know better than God, You know the entire human race and all of their deeds, You are not taking responisbility for what we have done oh and You havn't done your research.
ROFL.  We haven't done the research &).  What a black pot you are. and you haven't used logic, you've used the same old lies and misinformation that Christians spread. 


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Offline xphobe

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2009, 01:31:27 PM »
It is possible that the person who posted this is Jewish or Muslim

You're right - hard to tell from the OP.  But he's undoubtedly a theist, probably a misunderedumacated victim of No Child Left Behind.

As far as I'm concerned, if they stifle free inquiry and scientific education, one delusional cult is as bad as another.
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Offline Mad Maper

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2009, 11:24:16 PM »

Welcome to the forum!

You are correct, this is how it works, and also shows the strength of having some small amount of genetic divergence.
Thanks, i am only 16 and how old is the other guy
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Offline singlecrochet

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2009, 11:37:25 PM »

3.Even Darwin said, If there are not hundreds of transitional fossils found, my theory is incorrect, and today, we have even less transitional fossils than in Darwins time.

Every fossil is a transitional fossil, you doofus.  And, how the hell can we have less transitional fossils now than in Darwin's time?  Did someone eat or otherwise destroy those?

FAIL

I didn't even read the rest of your post.
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Offline oogabooga

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2009, 10:33:43 AM »
Errr... what's an evolutionist? As opposed to what, gravitationalist? Did I miss a meeting again?  :-\
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Offline xphobe

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2009, 11:01:56 AM »
I'm a thermodynamicalist.  Thou shalt not make unto thee a machine that generates more energy than is required to run it.  Woe to him who violates this sacred commandment.
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Offline oogabooga

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Re: interesting but logically unchallenging [#2020]
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2009, 11:49:06 AM »
I'm a thermodynamicalist.  Thou shalt not make unto thee a machine that generates more energy than is required to run it.  Woe to him who violates this sacred commandment.
I think I just fell in love there. Just a bit. ;D
Excreta Occurs