whywontgodhealamputees.com

Information Zone => Forum Questions & Suggestions => Topic started by: madeline on October 22, 2012, 02:45:19 PM

Title: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 22, 2012, 02:45:19 PM
I love this place..have for a long time..but you guys really hate newcomers..lol..
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Emily on October 22, 2012, 02:47:33 PM
you guys really hate newcomers..lol..

How so, madeline?

And glad you like the board. It's great, isn't it?
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 22, 2012, 02:56:14 PM
Stating "we hate newcomers" without examples is a bit baffling, no?

If you're going to say something negative, at least back it up.

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 22, 2012, 02:57:03 PM
I love this place..have for years..took me a while to join..much longer to post..just seems newcomers aren't welcomed into the fray..
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 22, 2012, 02:58:08 PM
sorry Nam..I know this is your home..I suppose I should wipe my feet
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nick on October 22, 2012, 02:58:51 PM
All you have to do is post.  Rest is easy.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 22, 2012, 03:01:14 PM
Sounds like a personal problem you have, not everyone else. Maybe you're right but you're just saying, "I love this site but it took me years to join!" Which says nothing, in all reality. Except about you, and not others.

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 22, 2012, 03:02:10 PM
Thanks Nick..I have posted..grateful for all the responses..I guess its me..hard to find a place that feels like home..my bad
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 22, 2012, 03:03:49 PM
Thanks Nam..
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 22, 2012, 03:05:12 PM
sorry Nam..I know this is your home..I suppose I should wipe my feet

What does this have anything to do with what you are saying?

Whether this is my home, Nick's, Hal's, screwtapes', etc., what does it mean? You're not saying anything. You made an accusation against the website about being unwelcoming to newbies yet only speaking about yourself.

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 22, 2012, 03:07:42 PM
honestly Nam enough..please..delete this post..delete me..its all good
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Emily on October 22, 2012, 03:09:00 PM
honestly Nam enough..please..delete this post..delete me..its all good

It's posts like these that members hate.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 22, 2012, 03:13:18 PM
I suppose you are right emily..my bad
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 22, 2012, 03:21:44 PM
madeline,

What's with the excessive spacing in your comment box?

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 22, 2012, 03:28:14 PM
Nam.............why do you care?............lol
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 22, 2012, 03:38:14 PM
Just don't see the necessity of it.

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Jag on October 22, 2012, 03:52:14 PM
Hi madeline,

I think I understand the point you're making. I spent several months reading here before I ever posted anything, and many months later I'm still not a frequent poster. I love it here, in part because of the challenges (which I think are what you are alluding to in your post).

It's a tough board, in that anything said well be read critically to see if it holds up under careful examination. There's little patience for theists who arrive intent on saving us godless sinners, but can't be bothered to spend some time reviewing the history to see if they have anything new to add. There's little tolerance for assertions that aren't, or can't be, supported by evidence, ideally empirical evidence. No one gets away with BS on the "serious" topics, and may be called out for it on more light topics too. Many of the members have been here for a long time, and are often well read across a wide range of topics, so odds are good there's someone in the community who is fairly knowledgeable in whatever topic may be under discussion. And everyone knows how to use Google.

It's all about critical thinking. Part of what I love about this place is that I can see a well-constructed argument in action. I can see logical fallacies in "real world" context, and watch them get dismantled. Sometimes the conversation takes a familiar path, and sometimes it deviates into completely unexpected areas, but it's almost always enlightening. You can get hammered on for a poor word choice. You will hear about it if you post without thinking through what your audience is going to read in your words that you may not have intended. Any bias that shows up will be brought into the light to be examined in minute detail. And you'll be a better communicator for it.

I'm not all that great with biblical arguments, but get lots of useful information from members who are. I learn all kinds of stuff about politics that I might not otherwise find. I get exposed to views that may not mesh with my own, but are presented in a way that at least makes me have to consider if my views are valid, or habitual. Most of that gets processed in my head, not on the pages.

In general, I find the tone tends to be fairly serious. Get involved in conversations that aren't "heavy" and get familiar with the areas that don't tend to spark as much conflict. As long as you are prepared to substantiate whatever you say here, you'll be fine. I strongly recommend easing into this place as opposed to a headlong dive into the deep end.

Good luck!

Edited for spelling error.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 22, 2012, 04:10:23 PM
I think I understand the point you're making. I spent several months reading here before I ever posted anything, and many months later I'm still not a frequent poster. I love it here, in part because of the challenges (which I think are what you are alluding to in your post).

I always just joined. If I didn't like it, then I just left.

Quote
It's a tough board, in that anything said well be read critically to see if it holds up under careful examination.

One of the reasons I like this site.

Quote
There's little patience for theists who arrive intent on saving us godless sinners, but can't be bothered to spend some time reviewing the history to see if they have anything new to add.

This is why they should have a section with little to no rules; that way they can be themselves, we can be more ourselves, and an outsider viewing can see who the "rational" person(s) actually are.

Quote
There's little tolerance for assertions that aren't, or can't be, supported by evidence, ideally empirical evidence.

Which is fine with the rest of the website but a section where they can bring their "emperical evidence" free from moderation would be sweet.

Quote
No one gets away with BS on the "serious" topics, and may be called out for it on more light topics too. Many of the members have been here for a long time, and are often well read across a wide range of topics, so odds are good there's someone in the community who is fairly knowledgeable in whatever topic may be under discussion. And everyone knows how to use Google.

Yahoo! sucks.

Quote
It's all about critical thinking. Part of what I love about this place is that I can see a well-constructed argument in action. I can see logical fallacies in "real world" context, and watch them get dismantled. Sometimes the conversation takes a familiar path, and sometimes it deviates into completely unexpected areas, but it's almost always enlightening. You can get hammered on for a poor word choice. You will hear about it if you post without thinking through what your audience is going to read in your words that you may not have intended. Any bias that shows up will be brought into the light to be examined in minute detail. And you'll be a better communicator for it.

Yep.

Quote
I'm not all that great with biblical arguments, but get lots of useful information from members who are. I learn all kinds of stuff about politics that I might not otherwise find. I get exposed to views that may not mesh with my own, but are presented in a way that at least makes me have to consider if my views are valid, or habitual. Most of that gets processed in my head, not on the pages.

In general, I find the tone tends to be fairly serious. Get involved in conversations that aren't "heavy" and get familiar with the areas that don't tend to spark as much conflict. As long as you are prepared to substantiate whatever you say here, you'll be fine. I strongly recommend easing into this place as opposed to a headlong dive into the deep end.

I'm a diver, myself.

:D

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Seppuku on October 22, 2012, 04:18:58 PM
It's a pretty heated forum and lots of people will post, it can get overwhelming for newbies, but to be honest, we love newbies, it's new perspectives, it's new people to talk to and it's more interesting. But I don't think anybody here hold back or really pulls their punches, I can see how that might be intimidating, but for how this forum works, I like to think what we've got going here is good. I think it's harder for a theist newbie, because generally what they get is not what they're used to and they are generally outnumbered and what's acceptable in church is not necessarily what's acceptable here. But this place makes no secret that it's a tough environment, I think it's a love it or hate it affair - those who don't like it don't stay long, unfortunately, some people who don't like it would have us change our ways, but that ain't gonna happen and throw a hissy fit when they don't get their way - usually these folks are the ones who try to go out with a bang. We had one a couple of months back. ;)

But I wouldn't get us wrong, we're reasonable folks and we are actually pretty approachable folks and I like to think that actuallly, we're a friendly bunch. For me, what I love is the brutal honesty and I think it's refreshing, but it's not really for sensitive folks. :)
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 22, 2012, 04:40:37 PM
But I don't think anybody here hold back or really pulls their punches, I can see how that might be intimidating, but for how this forum works, I like to think what we've got going here is good.

Actually, I hold it back. A bit.

Quote
I think it's harder for a theist newbie, because generally what they get is not what they're used to and they are generally outnumbered and what's acceptable in church is not necessarily what's acceptable here.

Comfort zones. They are used to winning the conversation where as here, they have to back up what they say.

Quote
...unfortunately, some people who don't like it would have us change our ways, but that ain't gonna happen and throw a hissy fit when they don't get their way - usually these folks are the ones who try to go out with a bang. We had one a couple of months back. ;)

If one looks at other atheist websites that are inviting to theists, I think this place could learn from them. I am not stating total capitulation but there ls got to be an in between so theists stay here longer than they normally do.

Quote
But I wouldn't get us wrong, we're reasonable folks and we are actually pretty approachable folks and I like to think that actuallly, we're a friendly bunch. For me, what I love is the brutal honesty and I think it's refreshing, but it's not really for sensitive folks. :)

QFT

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Jag on October 22, 2012, 04:41:53 PM
Yes Nam, I figured that out about you  ;). But I can also see why madeline and others might find that approach to be a little intimidating. This site is not for the sensitive, as Seppuku pointed out. Most of us haven't had a great deal of practice in critically presenting our positions, and can find it difficult to learn to express ourselves that way. Kudos to everyone who arrives and actually tries to do so; the world will only benefit from more critical thinkers.

I find that the more time I spend here, the harder I am on posters in other forums. I'm not sure if I should thank the members here, or apologize to everyone else, but my tolerance for bad arguments or posts that miss the point is almost completely destroyed now. I actually apologized to some random dude the other day for holding him to an unrealistic standard on a public board. It wasn't until a few hours had passed that I realized that my apology might have been a little insulting as well.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 22, 2012, 04:47:47 PM
Thanks so much Jag..your understanding is so appreciated!
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Mr. Blackwell on October 22, 2012, 05:15:55 PM
Yeah, I just kinda of dove right in head first without thinking or even knowing about the forums existence. I responded to a video about a magic trick involving a milk jug and prayer.

Madeline, the thing you should realize is that for people like Nam and myself, possibly a few others as well...we are looking for strife. An opposing point of view to argue or question. I have noticed that most of your comments are reaffirming or showing your aggreement with something someone said. While that is great and it is good to show your support it doesn't usually garner a reply.

I rarely lend my voice in agreement to something someone said. I may add a snarky comment for comedic value and it's fun to get a joke running sometimes. Please don't mistake a lack of response to your comments as a dismisal of you as a person.

And don't be afraid to pick a fight or stand up for yourself if someone questions you. It's the internet...you are safe here.

Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 22, 2012, 05:21:19 PM
Thanks Mr. Blackwell and fuck you too!
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: jetson on October 22, 2012, 05:39:44 PM
madeline - I am not really Jetson, I am Batman.  Just let me know, and I will take down any member who screws with you.

You're welcome.   ;D

Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 22, 2012, 06:22:14 PM
Come on Batman, I'll take you and your little buddy Robin on!

;)

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Quesi on October 22, 2012, 07:08:11 PM
I'm not up on current events.  Who is beating up Madeline and why? 

Dammit.  I want it to stop. 
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nick on October 22, 2012, 07:14:08 PM
I have know idea what this one is all about.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 22, 2012, 07:19:20 PM
Quesi,

It's not me. I am the nicest most sweetest guy in the world.

Nick,

It's all about you.

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nick on October 22, 2012, 07:27:42 PM
Damn it, I tried to keep the focus on Nam.  He is just too tricky.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 22, 2012, 07:31:49 PM
The Force is with me.

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: HAL on October 22, 2012, 08:06:20 PM
I love this place..have for a long time..but you guys really hate newcomers..lol..

Nothing worthwhile is ever easy.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: ParkingPlaces on October 22, 2012, 08:13:39 PM
I love newcomers. Nobody else will talk to me.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Chronos on October 22, 2012, 08:16:34 PM
This forum isn't the only tough place for newcomers:

(http://goo.gl/Z3sNd)

Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: HAL on October 22, 2012, 08:16:55 PM
I love newcomers. Nobody else will talk to me.

Hello!  ;)
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: wright on October 23, 2012, 10:43:50 AM
I'm not up on current events.  Who is beating up Madeline and why? 

Dammit.  I want it to stop. 

madeline both taught and was tutored on how this forum can appear to newcomers. She seems to have taken it pretty well, even if she started the thread by leading with her chin  ;)
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 23, 2012, 12:48:09 PM
Thanks everybody for taking it easy on me. I expected to be black and blue.  ;)
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Seppuku on October 23, 2012, 01:38:38 PM
I love newcomers. Nobody else will talk to me.

Remind me, who are you? ;)


Thanks everybody for taking it easy on me. I expected to be black and blue.  ;)

We don't mind people of all races, including Smurfs.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Kimberly on October 23, 2012, 01:54:24 PM
I feel like I missed something here? Madeline why do you feel like we hate newcomers? If you stated it somewhere already I apologize. Unless it has big flashy lights I probably missed it[1].
 1. Suffering from a cold and not quite all here from the meds.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: wright on October 23, 2012, 04:39:11 PM
I feel like I missed something here? Madeline why do you feel like we hate newcomers? If you stated it somewhere already I apologize. Unless it has big flashy lights I probably missed it[1].
 1. Suffering from a cold and not quite all here from the meds.

Jag seems to have summed it up well on the first page of the thread; madeline is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong:

Quote
It's a tough board, in that anything said well be read critically to see if it holds up under careful examination. There's little patience for theists who arrive intent on saving us godless sinners, but can't be bothered to spend some time reviewing the history to see if they have anything new to add. There's little tolerance for assertions that aren't, or can't be, supported by evidence, ideally empirical evidence. No one gets away with BS on the "serious" topics, and may be called out for it on more light topics too. Many of the members have been here for a long time, and are often well read across a wide range of topics, so odds are good there's someone in the community who is fairly knowledgeable in whatever topic may be under discussion. And everyone knows how to use Google.

It's all about critical thinking. Part of what I love about this place is that I can see a well-constructed argument in action. I can see logical fallacies in "real world" context, and watch them get dismantled. Sometimes the conversation takes a familiar path, and sometimes it deviates into completely unexpected areas, but it's almost always enlightening. You can get hammered on for a poor word choice. You will hear about it if you post without thinking through what your audience is going to read in your words that you may not have intended. Any bias that shows up will be brought into the light to be examined in minute detail. And you'll be a better communicator for it.
--Jag
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 23, 2012, 04:42:54 PM
Thanks everybody for taking it easy on me. I expected to be black and blue.  ;)

I could oblige. (figuratively)

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Kimberly on October 23, 2012, 04:52:47 PM
Jag seems to have summed it up well on the first page of the thread; madeline is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong:

I saw that and think it's a nice description but wanted to know if Madeline had a particular first person experience that made her feel that way.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 23, 2012, 04:56:47 PM
Wasn't with me.

;)

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Mr. Blackwell on October 23, 2012, 05:17:18 PM
Me neither
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: MadBunny on October 24, 2012, 06:46:59 PM
I love this place..have for a long time..but you guys really hate newcomers..lol..


(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k150/madbunny_2006/edge4.png)I would say rather that, in general you get what you give.
If you're prone to giving thoughtful input on whatever topic you're posting on generally speaking you'll get it back.  There is a caveat to that though, and that is that as a new member you're stepping into a forum about religion with members who've been arguing this stuff for years.
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k150/madbunny_2006/edge2.png)If you're new to debating religion, or even politics take a bit to observe before jumping in with both feet.  People here have seen so many repetitions of the same arguments over and over that they tend to snap when they see them.  It may be that the whole idea of say, St. Anselms proof, or Pascals wager is new and fresh to you, like a loaf from the oven.  I assure you however, that it's been covered.
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k150/madbunny_2006/edge3.png)Try to realize this, and approach the topic from that angle.  Not doing this is probably the most frequent mistake that I see new members make, and also the most likely place that you'll see a shark tank spontaneously form.
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k150/madbunny_2006/edge6.png)Some members are just randomly confrontational, like Nam for example.  He is capable of advancing a fairly strong argument when it suits him, but also prone to nitpicking, as demonstrated in this thread.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 24, 2012, 07:13:49 PM
Everybody always picks on me. :([1]

-Nam
 1. j/k
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 24, 2012, 07:17:17 PM
Thanks Mad..Nam is just a dick...oh crap that's a compliment..my bad
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 24, 2012, 07:23:35 PM
"Asshole" not "dick". But I have a dick. So, that's something.

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 24, 2012, 07:26:47 PM
If you say so..not sure I believe you tho
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: jetson on October 24, 2012, 07:42:57 PM
madeline - I should add, what you are actually experiencing, is the evolution of the acceptance of Nam.  It's been a phenomenom of this forum for years.   ;D
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 24, 2012, 08:05:22 PM
Well Nam deserves to be loved regardless of his lack of social skills..I don't say this to be sarcastic as I have a foster brother who suffers from Asperger's Disorder, I suppose I should have seen the symptoms..my bad.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 24, 2012, 08:09:41 PM
Chuck it up and keep thinking you're insulting me. Only one thing insults me. You've been here anonymously for years; shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 24, 2012, 08:16:12 PM
Nam..I am not trying to insult you..in fact the opposite is true..I am very sorry. I didn't realize..please accept my apology.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: HAL on October 24, 2012, 08:19:39 PM
Well Nam deserves to be loved regardless of his lack of social skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFJkhV5l5JU
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 24, 2012, 08:26:32 PM
Indeed Hal..Accept the ways of others..treat all the same..thank you..why do I feel the need to bow? 15 years of martial art perhaps?
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 24, 2012, 08:39:04 PM
Hal,

Since I can't watch vids on my phone, I am going to assume it's the Smurfs. I love the Smurfs.


madeline,

You're not trying to insult me though almost every comment (in a few topics) is you berating me. Yeah, I believe you. Don't worry.

Berating doesn't work on me, by the by. Neither does name-calling. But, keep trying, I have hope for you.

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: HAL on October 24, 2012, 08:42:32 PM
Hal,

Since I can't watch vids on my phone, I am going to assume it's the Smurfs. I love the Smurfs.

No, it has to do with flowers and water and ... oh hell, just watch it when you can.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 24, 2012, 08:43:16 PM
No Nam..I am truly sorry..I assumed something I should not have..It's all good.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 24, 2012, 08:44:08 PM
LOL Hal..
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 24, 2012, 08:47:58 PM
I am sorry, you have this impression that I care. No, that ship has sailed. Then it sunk.

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 24, 2012, 08:55:02 PM
Don't be sorry..I understand..you are safe here...everybody loves you..its all good..
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 24, 2012, 09:03:05 PM
Yeah, o...k.

-nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 24, 2012, 09:06:06 PM
LOL..what with the .... between letters? Seems odd...you ok?
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: MadBunny on October 24, 2012, 09:21:50 PM
I am sorry, you have this impression that I care. No, that ship has sailed. Then it sunk.

-Nam

That's ok.

President Obama says we have these things called 'Submarines', apparently they go under the water.

Edit:
Ok, I went looking for an image macro for this... and came across *this* image.
http://tinyurl.com/95y5crq (hotlinked to a random page.)
Amusingly I can't decide if it would be a better use of taxpayer money or not.  I find it amusing that this is the perception, when the reality is so very very different.


Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: madeline on October 24, 2012, 09:26:32 PM
OMG? Boat that go under water?  Did you tell Nam?
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Nam on October 24, 2012, 09:26:58 PM
Hey, Madbunny, that could be a golf course. Romney could play on it with Obama.

-Nam
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Garja on October 24, 2012, 09:34:44 PM
As much as I am likely to regret this statement......


Could you guys kinda like.... stop the bullshit? (please?)  I don't care who started it and why, but the trying to be the one who gets the last word/barb bullshit feels very jr. high to me.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Mr. Blackwell on October 24, 2012, 10:08:29 PM
Last comment on this thread wins!
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: kin hell on October 25, 2012, 03:19:53 AM
As much as I am likely to regret this statement......


Could you guys kinda like.... stop the bullshit? (please?)  I don't care who started it and why, but the trying to be the one who gets the last word/barb bullshit feels very jr. high to me.

...you should regret that statement, what fucking right have you to expect this forum to relate to itself at any level higher than jr high?

it's short termers like you with aspirations to adult pretension that totally destroy the wonderful frisson one can garner just by witnessing the willingness for the forum children to lower themselves even further.  Fuck knows why the catholic church maintains the theological speculation of "limbo" when proof of its existence can be witnessed here often.

and as far as the OP's assertion that this forum is tough on newcomers  what a stupid whining "look at me look at me I'm a fragile flower with acceptance issues, but most importantly look at me" piece of whimper.

This forum is not hard on newcomers, it's hard on fuckwits.



and of course, I could be just bluing for the fun of it.





 ;)
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: Mr. Blackwell on October 25, 2012, 04:20:16 PM
I could be just bluing for the fun of it.

Blue on, mother fucker, blue on.
Title: Re: Tough board to join
Post by: screwtape on October 26, 2012, 08:12:19 AM
This discussion has left the topic of "tough board to join" under the general heading of "Forum Questions and Suggestions".  So, I'm locking it.  If you'd like to resume the conversation in a chatter thread, please feel free to do so.