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Main Discussion Zone => Religion & Society => Topic started by: mrbiscoop on July 19, 2012, 12:00:00 PM

Title: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: mrbiscoop on July 19, 2012, 12:00:00 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/chick-fil-a-presidents-public-stance-against-gay-marriage-surprises-some-advocates/2012/07/19/gJQAtC3vvW_story.html
Chick-fil-A in a statement said it has a history of applying biblically-based principles to its business, and that it strives to treat everyone with honor, dignity and respect.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on July 19, 2012, 12:05:36 PM
I really like their food but I may have to rethink going there.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Seppuku on July 19, 2012, 12:12:17 PM
Interesting reading some of the comments:
Quote
Good for Chick-fil-A! You may not like it, and you don't have to support their business, but you gotta love people that stand up for their beliefs. 
I'm not fan of chicken, but I will certainly give them another shot.

To me, this would be like finding out the CEO of KFC was a casual racist and didn't believe other races deserve the same rights as white Americans. But you know, hoo-rah! It's not always a good thing when somebody stands up for the beliefs, particularly when they are bigoted.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on July 19, 2012, 12:16:17 PM
Chick-fil-A is anti-gay. My gay friends and family members periodically put out posts on facebook to boycott them, and ever since I first found out about their policies and opinions, I have stopped going there. They can keep their "pro family" company to themselves. I'm pro-family too. I just have a more inclusive definition of family.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on July 19, 2012, 12:55:07 PM
Chick-fil-A is anti-gay.

Really? I some how missed that. It seems like every time I want Chick-fil-A they are closed. So I don't eat it that often, I must admit I love their chicken but if this is true I'm not sure I can eat it.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on July 19, 2012, 01:04:14 PM
Really? I some how missed that. It seems like every time I want Chick-fil-A they are closed. So I don't eat it that often, I must admit I love their chicken but if this is true I'm not sure I can eat it.

An internet search will bring up a lot of recent articles, but this sums it up nicely. From nydailynews.com ...

Quote
Fast food chain Chick-Fil-A has been accused of being anti-gay for supporting organizations such as Focus on the Family, which oppose gay marriage.
 
Company president Dan Cathy said this week that his company is “guilty as charged.”
 
In an interview with the Baptist Press, Cathy said Chick-Fil-A is “very much supportive of the family - the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that.”
 
The chain, founded in 1946 by Cathy’s father, S. Truett Cathy, donated a total of $2 million to anti-gay groups including the Marriage & Family Foundation and the Family Research Council in 2010, according to Business Insider.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/chick-fil-a-cops-anti-gay-guilty-charged-company-president-article-1.1116841#ixzz215oyhmIz
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on July 19, 2012, 01:11:52 PM
::Sigh:: Please tell me KFC is still okay to eat.

Thanks for the info, I'm at "work" right now and didn't have time to look it up.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Aaron123 on July 19, 2012, 01:18:48 PM
Well, I've never been to Chick-fil-A, and now it looks like I have good reasons never to go there.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on July 19, 2012, 01:26:03 PM
::Sigh:: Please tell me KFC is still okay to eat...

I don't know of anything against them. I LOVE original recipe!!!  ;D
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: screwtape on July 19, 2012, 01:55:30 PM
applying biblically-based principles to its business, and that it strives to treat everyone with honor, dignity and respect.

Those are not biblically based principles.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Hatter23 on July 19, 2012, 03:58:34 PM
::Sigh:: Please tell me KFC is still okay to eat.


As far as race/gender/lifestyle equality, it is fine.

But the've been targeted by PETA and Islamic activists a lot. Both because they violate their religions ;)*

And then there's the fact it is one of the most grease laden foods


*Actually the PETA campaign make no sense what so ever as KFC does not have a vertically integrated supply chain, they do no own any chicken farms, nor do they dictate the conditions in which chicken are raised. They simply price shop like any fast food chain(Except McDonalds which does have a vertically integrated supply chain)

Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Brakeman on July 19, 2012, 04:41:16 PM
Cook your own!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNq8r4S5jSk

http://hilahcooking.com/chick-fil-a-copycat/ (http://hilahcooking.com/chick-fil-a-copycat/)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on July 19, 2012, 04:48:24 PM
And then there's the fact it is one of the most grease laden foods


And more expensive. If was going to be able to afford KFC I'd prob eat something else instead. I think we might eat it once a year. I only eat Chick-fil-A when I'm at Babie-R-Us on a Saturday. That rarely happens since I usually shop on Sundays and us heathens are deprived of Chick-fil-A on Sundays.

I also don't find Chick-fil-A to be very strategically placed. Their locations are not any where I'm at frequently. Their not as bad as Walgreens (Being on the corner of every single MAJOR intersection.) But they aren't close enough for me say, "Oh I feel like making a trip to Chick-fil-A instead of cooking dinner tonight either.

But who am I kidding, I don't cook any ways! That's Mr. Kimberly's job. Nevertheless I don't think we will miss them all that much. I rather hate waffle fries any ways.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 19, 2012, 05:17:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2YhAlTcdaE&list=PL0F6B8D051B13D028&index=9&feature=plpp_video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2YhAlTcdaE&list=PL0F6B8D051B13D028&index=9&feature=plpp_video)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: nogodsforme on July 19, 2012, 10:08:43 PM
::Sigh:: Please tell me KFC is still okay to eat.

Thanks for the info, I'm at "work" right now and didn't have time to look it up.

KFC is not okay to eat. It will killl you. (Last time I ate it I got so sick thought I was going to die. That was in 1993.) Back in the day, black folks used to say KFC put something in the chicken to sterilize black men. Right. Urban legend much? But I guess they are cool wit da gayz.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on July 19, 2012, 10:43:40 PM
What no KFC double down chicken sandwich for you in 2010?!?! C'mon man!  ;)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: kcrady on July 20, 2012, 10:23:48 AM
Is it just me, or is "Chick-fil-A" the stupidest name for a business in the history of the universe?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: DumpsterFire on July 20, 2012, 10:33:04 AM
Is it just me, or is "Chick-fil-A" the stupidest name for a business in the history of the universe?

When I was growing up, the first time I saw it I thought it was pronounced Chick-fill-uh (rhymes with killa), and that sure seemed stupid to me. Yes, even when its pronounced correctly its still pretty lame.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Sniomhaiche on July 20, 2012, 10:46:52 AM
Divergent spelling, yeah.  I'm not a fan of trying to nail a trademark name.   I found out about Chick-fil-A's shenanigans some years ago in a podcast from The Atheist Experience.  I've been boycotting them since.
That said, I currently have a bag of chicken breasts marinading in pickle juice for a tasty, godless supper tonight. :D
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Hatter23 on July 20, 2012, 10:50:38 AM
Is it just me, or is "Chick-fil-A" the stupidest name for a business in the history of the universe?
No every single store specializing in selling jewelery beads wins. A lot of "Urban clothing" stores also tie.  And I process new business liscence applications at work; Beadazzled, Bead Yourself, Beadelighful, Bead Crafty.....sigh.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: DumpsterFire on July 20, 2012, 12:21:46 PM
Great, I am now craving a Chik-fil-A sammich and some of their delicious ice cream. Thanks, guys!
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Sniomhaiche on July 20, 2012, 01:45:13 PM
No every single store specializing in selling jewelery beads wins. A lot of "Urban clothing" stores also tie.  And I process new business liscence applications at work; Beadazzled, Bead Yourself, Beadelighful, Bead Crafty.....sigh.

I like business names that use simple descriptions and ampersands ... Tank & Tummy, Suds & Duds, Curl Up & Dye etc.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Quesi on July 23, 2012, 07:47:25 PM
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/391328_10150915681797723_567799664_n.jpg)

Viral on facebook. 

https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-jim-henson-company/july-20-2012/10150928864755563
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on July 23, 2012, 07:53:59 PM
That's great. Hit them in the $$$.  Maybe they will see that hate does not pay.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Quesi on July 24, 2012, 01:03:21 PM
Getting all this stuff from facebook.

And the Onion's coverage of Chick-fil-A's new stance:

ATLANTA—As part of its recent efforts to publicly align itself with fundamentalist Christian values, the Chick-fil-A restaurant chain announced today the debut of its new Queer-Hatin' Cordon Bleu sandwich that would be on sale in all of the company's 1,600 restaurants this Wednesday.

In a press conference to reporters, company representatives said the homophobic new sandwich will include the national fast food chain’s trademark fried chicken filet wrapped in a piece of specially-smoked No Homo ham that would be topped with a slice of Swiss cheese and lathered in a creamy new Thousand Island-based Fag Punching sauce.

"The Queer-Hatin' Cordon Bleu is our company's way of showing our firm commitment to strong, Christian family values," said Chick-fil-A spokesman Robert Gary, before adding that the vehemently anti-gay rights sandwich comes served in a combo with waffle fries and a medium soda for just $6.95. "From the very first morsel of this savory meal to the very last bite, customers can envision gays burning in hell with their sodomizing cohorts, and know that our sandwich is on their side.”

"Of course, the young ones will want to finish their meals off right with a No Fudge Packin' Soft Serve Cone," Gary added. "I can't think of a better way to follow up a sandwich this good."

While the release of the Queer-Hatin’ Cordon Bleu has led to anger from pro-gay rights groups, loyal Chick-fil-A customers claim they are happy they can finally enjoy a sandwich that takes a firm stance on the issue of homosexuality.

"Any sandwich that combines that great Chick-fil-A flavor with a hefty dose of vitriolic homophobia is definitely going to keep me coming back for more," said Atlanta customer John Oaks. “Come Wednesday, I’m going to be first in line for this thing.”

According to sources, the Queer-Hatin’ Cordon Bleu is merely the first of Chick-fil-A’s new family values menu which is set to include the AIDS Is God’s Curse chicken nugget combo and the Fags Caused 9/11 strawberry fruit smoothie.
  http://www.theonion.com/articles/chickfila-debuts-new-homophobic-sandwich,28888/
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on July 24, 2012, 02:34:19 PM
They mentioned on The Daily show that Boston banned Chick-fil-A. I haven't fact checked it but the video was funny nevertheless.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-23-2012/gaywatch---holdouts-edition?xrs=synd_facebook
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on July 24, 2012, 03:17:00 PM
Chick-Fil-A is required eating at FOX now. ;)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Seppuku on July 24, 2012, 03:30:09 PM
Chick-Fil-A is required eating at FOX now. ;)

And Oreos are banned I take it?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jedweber on July 24, 2012, 04:20:30 PM
Mike Huckabee wants everyone to eat at Chick-fil-A on August 1!
Quote
Mike Huckabee Calls For National 'Chick-Fil-A Appreciation Day'

Mike Huckabee, the former governor of Arkansas and Fox News host, has had enough of what he called the "vicious hate speech and intolerant bigotry" aimed at Chick-fil-A.

On his Facebook page, Huckabee announced that Aug. 1 will be "Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day," a day on which he is encouraging people to patronize the fast food chain.
...
So far, more than 80,000 people have signed up to participate in the event.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/mike-huckabee-chick-fil-a-appreciation-day_n_1696648.html
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on July 24, 2012, 04:26:14 PM
Someone needs to start an event for the same day asking people to not eat there! Surely 80K people can resist the sweet juicy taste of Chick-fil-A!
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: nogodsforme on July 24, 2012, 05:17:12 PM
Mike Huckabee wants everyone to eat at Chick-fil-A on August 1!
Quote
Mike Huckabee Calls For National 'Chick-Fil-A Appreciation Day'

Mike Huckabee, the former governor of Arkansas and Fox News host, has had enough of what he called the "vicious hate speech and intolerant bigotry" aimed at Chick-fil-A.

On his Facebook page, Huckabee announced that Aug. 1 will be "Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day," a day on which he is encouraging people to patronize the fast food chain.
...
So far, more than 80,000 people have signed up to participate in the event.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/mike-huckabee-chick-fil-a-appreciation-day_n_1696648.html

Wasn't he telling everyone to eat healthier a while back? He lost a lot of weight, IIRC.

You can lose weight and support gay rights. Or you can pig out at this place and guarantee that no self-respecting gay person will ever get near you. :P
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Azdgari on July 24, 2012, 07:22:43 PM
Is it just me, or is "Chick-fil-A" the stupidest name for a business in the history of the universe?

It's dumb, but it has a lot of competition.  London, Ontario had - until last year - a fast-food restaurant named "Blimpy's".

Because when you're selling greasy, fatty food to university students, it pays to make them think about being blimpy.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on July 24, 2012, 08:30:26 PM
Chick-Fil-A Recalling Jim Henson Kids' Meal Toys As Partnership Severed Over Anti-Gay Donations
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/chick-fil-a-jim-henson-toy-recall-gay_n_1699597.html

(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/699985/thumbs/o-CHICK-FIL-A-SIGN-570.jpg?4)

From the comments section:
Quote
Clever wording used to insinuate without technically lying. They stated it's a voluntary recall based on something that cannot be proven nor disproven.

Still, it's subterfuge and deceit, which I pretty much think falls into the "S" file.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on July 24, 2012, 09:16:08 PM
Wow, that's really stooping to a new all-time low on Chick-fil-a's part.  >:(
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Quesi on July 24, 2012, 09:49:26 PM
Anybody remember this question from Nodak in a thread a while back?

As a disclaimer, i am the sole owner of a corporation that you guys so despise and think are the ruin of America. I provide jobs, service, wealth, and the extra strain on my business for the welfare state you think you are entitled to, could make it go away.  Funny, i treat my employees well and they make the business even more profitable......most successful business operate that way. You don't survive long if you don't. When you say "corporations" what and who do you actually mean? Can you name 5 that do all the evils that you say and are still successful?

I responded by naming a few corporations that are on my radar in terms of doing evil things and continuing to be successful.   http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,22905.msg514529.html#msg514529

But the next time I am asked a question about evil, successful corporations, Chick-Fil-A will be high on my list.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on July 24, 2012, 10:28:49 PM
Wow, that's really stooping to a new all-time low on Chick-fil-a's part.  >:(
Are you surprised?  They have FOX on their side which means all the dirty tricks in the book.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: screwtape on July 25, 2012, 07:39:58 AM
I responded by naming a few corporations that are on my radar in terms of doing evil things...

Have you seen the documentary "The Corporation (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379225/)"? 

It is an uphill battle for corporations to not be evil.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jdawg70 on July 25, 2012, 05:49:07 PM
I suspect many of you are aware of this already, but just in case:

National Same Sex Kiss Day at Chick-Fil-A:

https://www.facebook.com/events/444598242237116
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Sniomhaiche on July 25, 2012, 06:00:25 PM
Kermit speaks!
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DFj8WAszedXk%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&feature=youtu.be&v=Fj8WAszedXk&gl=US (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DFj8WAszedXk%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&feature=youtu.be&v=Fj8WAszedXk&gl=US)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on July 25, 2012, 06:18:49 PM
jd

Did you see this one?

https://www.facebook.com/events/400804533315699/

Sounds like a great idea to me!
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jdawg70 on July 25, 2012, 06:22:34 PM
jd

Did you see this one?

https://www.facebook.com/events/400804533315699/

Sounds like a great idea to me!

Did not see that one.  Coolcoolcool.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on July 25, 2012, 06:24:02 PM
I found it in the comments of the one you posted. So TY.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Quesi on July 25, 2012, 06:46:28 PM
Social networking is a beautiful thing.  In another era, it would have warranted a sentence or two on the 6 o'clock news.  Maybe a couple of paragraphs on page 7 of the paper. 

But I don't know anyone who isn't talking about it now. 
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on July 27, 2012, 05:24:21 PM
The VP of public relations for Chic-Fil-A died today of a heart attack.  Maybe he ate too many chic-fil-a sands over the years.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: nogodsforme on July 27, 2012, 05:33:06 PM
God's will. Maybe he doesn't really hate fags after all.  :angel:
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Hatter23 on July 27, 2012, 07:12:15 PM
If there's a boycott, they certainly aren't noticing it, minivans and pickup trucks lined up round the block when I passed one today.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on July 27, 2012, 07:42:59 PM
I was out and about today... I'm saddened by what I saw today. I work for an manufacture, our corporation openly supports gay marriage. However, on my way home I say a disturbing LED display. One of our local mom and pop dealer's LED display said, "We support Chick-Fil-A". I had once thought about getting a summer job at this location. Mostly just to understand the sales side of our business. (I've never done retail.) I guess I'm glad I never pursued that job.

In related new's did anyone see this:

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/314747_10151078730313447_387503330_n.jpg)

JC Penny's is also pretty cool:

(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2012-05-03-OneMillionMomsJCPenneylesbianad.jpeg)

JCP's spokeswoman is Ellen. We are still getting closer to equality than I ever thought would be possible. These may be small victories, but combined it's pretty amazing to witness.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: mrbiscoop on July 27, 2012, 08:44:24 PM
The VP of public relations for Chic-Fil-A died today of a heart attack.  Maybe he ate too many chic-fil-a sands over the years.
[/quote/]
Here's the link:http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-chick-fil-a-20120728,0,765557.story
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on July 27, 2012, 08:52:15 PM
^That's sad, I bet it was the massive stress. The CEO should be ashamed of bringing this on the company. If I were the PR guy's wife I'd be livid.  :'(
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: mrbiscoop on July 27, 2012, 08:57:17 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/longtime-chick-fil-spokesman-donald-perry-dies-16873378#.UBNHa45G5S8
That's better.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Astreja on July 28, 2012, 02:26:10 AM
Surely Chik-Fil-A knew that at least some of their customers were GLBT.  To take their money at the till, then turn around and spend some of that money to try to sabotage those customers' struggle for equal rights in marriage?  Unforgivable.  This is clearly a crime against the spirit of hospitality, akin to inviting someone to your table to mock them before your other guests.

I expect, and eagerly await, the bankruptcy of CFA.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Brakeman on July 28, 2012, 07:53:26 AM
The VP of public relations for Chic-Fil-A died today of a heart attack.  Maybe he ate too many chic-fil-a sands over the years.

Heart attack! I heard that he was taken up to heaven in a whirlwind just like Elijah. God and Jeebus both threw themselves at his feet because he had helped the republican cause so much. 
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Quesi on July 28, 2012, 10:01:16 AM
The VP of public relations for Chic-Fil-A died today of a heart attack.  Maybe he ate too many chic-fil-a sands over the years.

One of my facebook friends, who is a pastor, (and someone I really like and respect) posted: 


I guess the Lord wanted to talk to him about same sex marriage.
before linking an article about his death. 

Later, in the comment section, he wrote: 

He's my age so I hesitated about this post. But his legacy is a wasted life.


Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Frank on July 28, 2012, 12:38:22 PM


I expect, and eagerly await, the bankruptcy of CFA.

I think you'll be waiting a very long time. I doubt anyone ever went bankrupt selling fried chicken to Americans. GLTB people make up a tiny percentage of the population so unless they can get a very large percentage of the heterosexual majority to boycott then the chances of success are very small. Besides bankrupting them would only lead to a lot of people losing their jobs. People who need the work and are not anti gay at all. All GLTB people really want is to get them to recognise that this kind of attitude is completely out of place in this day and age.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on July 28, 2012, 12:45:49 PM
That's true.  Have you seen the size of Americans lately.  They (we) did not get that way eating brussell sprouts.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Azdgari on July 28, 2012, 04:33:07 PM
One of my facebook friends, who is a pastor, (and someone I really like and respect) posted:  <snip>

Glad he said that, Quesi.  But I've been asking something lately about my supposedly liberal Christian friends, and it bears application here.  Does he use the same Holy Bible?  Does he stroke out or annotate the parts about homosexuals being abominations unto the Lord, to be stoned to death?  Does he support printing more Holy Bibles that preach condemnation and death to gays, rather than edited versions that do not?

If he's like anyone else I've asked about this, the answers are "yes, no, and yes" respectively.  So how serious is he?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on July 28, 2012, 05:33:55 PM
If Christians were all on the same page as their "Holy Bible" then they would all be like Fred Phellips.

And I wonder why he has not gotten in on this. Picketing the picketers at a Chic-Fil-A would seem to be right up his alley.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Quesi on July 28, 2012, 05:41:19 PM
One of my facebook friends, who is a pastor, (and someone I really like and respect) posted:  <snip>

Glad he said that, Quesi.  But I've been asking something lately about my supposedly liberal Christian friends, and it bears application here.  Does he use the same Holy Bible?  Does he stroke out or annotate the parts about homosexuals being abominations unto the Lord, to be stoned to death?  Does he support printing more Holy Bibles that preach condemnation and death to gays, rather than edited versions that do not?

If he's like anyone else I've asked about this, the answers are "yes, no, and yes" respectively.  So how serious is he?

He cherry picks. Just like everyone else.  He picks the parts that he likes, and I have no idea how he justifies everything else. 

But he lives a life that I respect.  He champions local campaigns to get low income kids into after school programs and summer camps for free.  The first weekend that gay/lesbian marriages became legal in NY, he offered up his services as a pastor to perform free ceremonies for couple who wanted to get married, and he I know he attended a small rally to bring attention to some recent attacks against transgendered people in the community.  He has strong working relationships with both the Muslim and the Jewish community in the neighborhood, and when he talks about diversity of belief systems in the community, he always includes a reference to "non believers."  He raised his children in a household that was always populated by recently arrived refugees who needed support. 

I like the guy.  My life overlaps with his on both a personal and professional level quite frequently, and I count him among my personal friends and professional allies. 

I don't pretend to know how he justifies so many parts of the bible that he preaches, that contradict the work that he dedicates himself to.  But for me,, his work and his lifestyle are so much more important than his belief in some ancient stories. 
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 28, 2012, 06:34:36 PM
I think you'll be waiting a very long time. I doubt anyone ever went bankrupt selling fried chicken to Americans. GLTB people make up a tiny percentage of the population [snip]

tiny percentage of the population were LGBT? I didn't know you questioned 7 billion people worldwide. I didn't know that all 7 billion people would be truly honest with their own feelings and would come out. I didn't know everyone would be honest with themselves in a world where countries kill you for being gay, where you're treated as second class citizens in some countries like the US, and where people brainwash you into hating sexuality that isn't straight. Wow.

Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on July 28, 2012, 08:23:22 PM
...He cherry picks. Just like everyone else.  He picks the parts that he likes, and I have no idea how he justifies everything else...

I think that many of today's liberal christians simply take "love thy neighbor as thyself" as an over-arching statement that is more important than the other bits. Quite frankly, if they're going to cherry-pick, I'll take guys like this pastor over the more right-wing folks. I hear these type of christians say "jesus is love" or somesuch thing. Hey, it may not be fully biblical, but its not a bad way to live as a general philosophy.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Azdgari on July 28, 2012, 08:27:47 PM
I don't pretend to know how he justifies so many parts of the bible that he preaches, that contradict the work that he dedicates himself to.  But for me,, his work and his lifestyle are so much more important than his belief in some ancient stories.

I don't doubt he lives what we'd both consider a good life, Quesi.  Nor do I doubt that he finds ways to dismiss those parts of the Bible.  That wasn't what I asked, though, was it?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Quesi on July 28, 2012, 08:42:39 PM
I don't pretend to know how he justifies so many parts of the bible that he preaches, that contradict the work that he dedicates himself to.  But for me,, his work and his lifestyle are so much more important than his belief in some ancient stories.

I don't doubt he lives what we'd both consider a good life, Quesi.  Nor do I doubt that he finds ways to dismiss those parts of the Bible.  That wasn't what I asked, though, was it?

I'm sorry that I did not address your question point by point.  Let me try again. 

Does he use the same Holy Bible? 
I am guessing yes. 
Does he stroke out or annotate the parts about homosexuals being abominations unto the Lord, to be stoned to death? 
Strikes out, rationalizes, provides his own interpretations, updates.  I can't say for sure.  I have no idea how he justifies many many parts of the bible, including the "stone your disobedient kids to death" parts or the "marry your rapist" parts.  The way he lives his life demonstrates that he doesn't embrace any of that foolishness. 

Does he support printing more Holy Bibles that preach condemnation and death to gays, rather than edited versions that do not?
I would not speculate in his opinions concerning editing the bible and printing the edited versions. 

Is that a sufficient answer? 
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Azdgari on July 28, 2012, 08:58:03 PM
Quote
Strikes out, rationalizes, provides his own interpretations, updates.  I can't say for sure.  I have no idea how he justifies many many parts of the bible, including the "stone your disobedient kids to death" parts or the "marry your rapist" parts.  The way he lives his life demonstrates that he doesn't embrace any of that foolishness. 

I guess I wasn't using the clearest language I could have, here.  I realize he finds a way to disregard them.  I'm asking whether he physically, literally strokes out or annotates the Bibles used at his church - whether he actually edits the Bible.  Or, whether he leaves it as it is.

Quote
I would not speculate in his opinions concerning editing the bible and printing the edited versions.


Well then.  I guess we can't know how serious he really is, and how much of his actions are just putting on an act.

Quote
Is that a sufficient answer?


I guess, insofar as "I don't know" is a sufficient - and in this case inescapable - answer.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: kcrady on July 29, 2012, 01:33:03 AM
When I was growing up, the first time I saw it I thought it was pronounced Chick-fill-uh (rhymes with killa), and that sure seemed stupid to me. Yes, even when its pronounced correctly its still pretty lame.

Yeah, that's what I thought too.  So it's supposed to be pronounced "Chick Fillet?"  Well, that' still pretty lame, seeing as there is no such thing, unless you're a sexist cannibal.  *Remembers that we're talking about right-wing Republicans here*  Oh, wait...
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: HAL on July 29, 2012, 07:45:10 AM
Sarah supports them!

(http://images.politico.com/global/2012/07/120727_sarah_palin_chick_fi_a.jpg)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on July 29, 2012, 08:11:29 AM
Then you know we are right not to.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Frank on July 29, 2012, 10:31:53 AM
I think you'll be waiting a very long time. I doubt anyone ever went bankrupt selling fried chicken to Americans. GLTB people make up a tiny percentage of the population [snip]

tiny percentage of the population were LGBT? I didn't know you questioned 7 billion people worldwide. I didn't know that all 7 billion people would be truly honest with their own feelings and would come out. I didn't know everyone would be honest with themselves in a world where countries kill you for being gay, where you're treated as second class citizens in some countries like the US, and where people brainwash you into hating sexuality that isn't straight. Wow.

We're not talking about the world we're talking about America although I doubt the percentage is any higher globally.

Quote
Americans Have No Idea How Few Gay People There Are

Surveys show a shockingly high fraction think a quarter of the country is gay or lesbian, when the reality is that it's probably less than 2 percent.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/

Two percent seems pretty low to me. Now even allowing for a certain amount of...denial shall we say, you could probably only add one or two percent to the total unless you know something I don't. Maybe it's the exageration of how many gay people there actually are that is one of reasons that they get so much trouble from christians.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 29, 2012, 11:58:44 AM

We're not talking about the world we're talking about America although I doubt the percentage is any higher globally.


oh so surveys are 100% accurate yes? Again, surveys are man-made, we have no idea how many there are, even in America. To say it's 2% or even 10% is merely a guess. With bigotry, indoctrination, threats of hell, and death for being gay, no one will tell you they're gay, bisexual, lesbian, transgender, pansexual, demisexual, asexual, or anything like that. I rather we don't assume we know the exact statistic of how many LGBT people there is. If there wasn't any bigotry, discrimination, or death penalty for gay people and everyone is honest with themselves, we would see the real result. So in the meantime, don't assume that the survey is 100% accurate.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on July 29, 2012, 12:59:03 PM
It is not only LGBT who are boycotting Chick-fil-A. Its those of us who have family and friends who are LGBT. How dare they hate on my loved ones??? And I am not the only one by far. I would say, amongst my facebook friends, the majority of us who are spreading this around are straight. Do not underestimate the support we will give to our loved ones.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Frank on July 29, 2012, 12:59:14 PM

We're not talking about the world we're talking about America although I doubt the percentage is any higher globally.


oh so surveys are 100% accurate yes? Again, surveys are man-made, we have no idea how many there are, even in America. To say it's 2% or even 10% is merely a guess. With bigotry, indoctrination, threats of hell, and death for being gay, no one will tell you they're gay, bisexual, lesbian, transgender, pansexual, demisexual, asexual, or anything like that. I rather we don't assume we know the exact statistic of how many LGBT people there is. If there wasn't any bigotry, discrimination, or death penalty for gay people and everyone is honest with themselves, we would see the real result. So in the meantime, don't assume that the survey is 100% accurate.

No they're not a 100% accurate. But this one is near enough. Lets look at my country. There are far fewer god botherers here threatening hellfire.

Quote
UK gay, lesbian and bisexual population revealed

Almost three-quarters of a million UK adults say they are gay, lesbian or bisexual - equivalent to 1.5% of the population, a survey suggests.
The Office for National Statistics (ONS) says 480,000 (1%) consider themselves gay or lesbian, and 245,000 (0.5%) bisexual.
The ONS received 450,000 responses in its new Integrated Household Survey.
The survey provides the biggest pool of social data in the UK after the Census, ONS says.
London had the highest percentage of those polled who identified as gay, Lesbian or bisexual and Northern Ireland lowest

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11398629

Now if the figure is 1.5% here then 2% would appear to be a consistent figure there. Or are gay people here lying as well?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Brakeman on July 29, 2012, 02:01:00 PM
It is not only LGBT who are boycotting Chick-fil-A. Its those of us who have family and friends who are LGBT.

I don't have any friends or family that are LGBT, a few remote coworkers only, but some of us stand up for what is right on mere principle too. Don't forget to count us!
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 29, 2012, 02:23:56 PM
No they're not a 100% accurate. But this one is near enough.

You admit they're not 100% accurate but you assume that is close enough. Riiiiiight. All i'm saying is that there is no way to know 100%. Sure there is a low number of LGBT would would openly say they're LGBT, but the ones in closet won't say a word and there are some who weren't sure about their sexuality.

It is not only LGBT who are boycotting Chick-fil-A. Its those of us who have family and friends who are LGBT. How dare they hate on my loved ones??? And I am not the only one by far. I would say, amongst my facebook friends, the majority of us who are spreading this around are straight. Do not underestimate the support we will give to our loved ones.

I concur. There are many people who are accepting of LGBT folks who would lend a hand against bigotry and lies.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on July 29, 2012, 04:10:46 PM
It is not only LGBT who are boycotting Chick-fil-A. Its those of us who have family and friends who are LGBT.

I don't have any friends or family that are LGBT, a few remote coworkers only, but some of us stand up for what is right on mere principle too. Don't forget to count us!

Yes, absolutely! :)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: shnozzola on July 29, 2012, 05:44:37 PM
Quote
"The Jim Henson company, which created the Muppets, have cut their ties with Chick-Fil-A because of the company's anti-gay marriage stance. Insiders say the move came after intense pressure from Bert and Ernie." –Jay Leno

http://ohmygov.com/blogs/general_news/archive/2012/07/28/the-week-s-10-best-political-jokes-july-27-2012.aspx
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Frank on July 29, 2012, 06:11:41 PM
No they're not a 100% accurate. But this one is near enough.

You admit they're not 100% accurate but you assume that is close enough. Riiiiiight. All i'm saying is that there is no way to know 100%. Sure there is a low number of LGBT would would openly say they're LGBT, but the ones in closet won't say a word and there are some who weren't sure about their sexuality.



Then what do you think the percentage is 10,20,30%? Because with all due respect I would find it difficult to reconcile a species with 7 billion members in it if a high percentage of them are homosexual and therefore unlikely to have offspring of their own. Not to mention any party who actively pursued an anti gay agenda against such a large section of the electorate would be unlikely to win any elections. So why do anti gay marriage votes keep winning and the anti gay party, the GOP, keep getting such a high vote at elections?

Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: magicmiles on July 29, 2012, 06:36:09 PM
Just a thought:

How far do those of you joining the boycott take things? Do you also boycott the suppliers of this business? The financiers? Or is it a matter of 'some action is better than no action'?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on July 29, 2012, 06:38:54 PM
Because rural whites vote in large numbers as well as church goers.  They also seem to have a high % among seniors who also vote in high numbers.  Along with a large number of conservative states.  True liberals are not as plentiful as in the past.  And some people can't go very long without Chic-Fil-A.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 29, 2012, 09:26:16 PM
Then what do you think the percentage is 10,20,30%?

*Sigh* No one knows! I don't know! I just said that all i'm saying that it's very difficult to make an accurate statistic of the percentage of LGBT people! Geez, do you not read what i said?

Quote
Because with all due respect I would find it difficult to reconcile a species with 7 billion members in it if a high percentage of them are homosexual and therefore unlikely to have offspring of their own.

Gays and lesbians CAN have offsprings. It's called surrogacy and artificial insemination. Also, there's adoption.


Quote
Not to mention any party who actively pursued an anti gay agenda against such a large section of the electorate would be unlikely to win any elections. So why do anti gay marriage votes keep winning and the anti gay party, the GOP, keep getting such a high vote at elections?

oh they're winning votes are they? Then explain the marriages that has been legal in several states and in several countries? They're not winning anything, they're losing and it's also with the help of straight allies too. More and more states are starting to recongize that there's nothing scary about two men or two women in love, that same-sex marriage is beneficial and not threatening, and that children can be raised by gays and lesbians. Civil rights activists are actually the one's that's winning.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Frank on July 30, 2012, 01:56:55 PM
Then what do you think the percentage is 10,20,30%?

*Sigh* No one knows! I don't know! I just said that all i'm saying that it's very difficult to make an accurate statistic of the percentage of LGBT people! Geez, do you not read what i said?

Quote
Because with all due respect I would find it difficult to reconcile a species with 7 billion members in it if a high percentage of them are homosexual and therefore unlikely to have offspring of their own.

Gays and lesbians CAN have offsprings. It's called surrogacy and artificial insemination. Also, there's adoption.


Quote
Not to mention any party who actively pursued an anti gay agenda against such a large section of the electorate would be unlikely to win any elections. So why do anti gay marriage votes keep winning and the anti gay party, the GOP, keep getting such a high vote at elections?

oh they're winning votes are they? Then explain the marriages that has been legal in several states and in several countries? They're not winning anything, they're losing and it's also with the help of straight allies too. More and more states are starting to recongize that there's nothing scary about two men or two women in love, that same-sex marriage is beneficial and not threatening, and that children can be raised by gays and lesbians. Civil rights activists are actually the one's that's winning.

It is not difficult to figure these things out give or take a percentage point. It just appears you are not willing to accept it. Does it bother you if it is a low figure?

As for surrogacy and artificial insemination. For 99.9% of human history such procedures have not existed and adoption is not having offspring it's having someone else's offspring, and even that option has only become open to gay people in very recent history.

I would argue that they are winning. As far as I know no public vote has ever approved gay marriage. It might get through national or state governments. But the anti gay crowd immediately get enough signatures for a proposition to put before the electorate and they invariably win such as the recent vote in California and then it all ends up in the courts.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on July 30, 2012, 02:28:09 PM
It could get a popular vote of the people if outside forces weren't permitted to voice their oppositions. Only citizens of that particular area should be able to voice opposition.

The states are fickle, in such regard. They always allow those from outside states to decide what's best for them. i.e. Utah on California.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 30, 2012, 03:25:43 PM

It is not difficult to figure these things out give or take a percentage point. It just appears you are not willing to accept it. Does it bother you if it is a low figure?

What bothers me is people making up statistics.

Quote
blah blah, blah, blah

Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: screwtape on July 30, 2012, 03:34:15 PM
Tim,

Let me help you out here.  You are jumping on Frank wrongly.  He pointed out that there are fewer homosexuals than Americans think.  That is not bigotry or an assault on gays.   

While surveys are not 100% accurate, it is not a complete guess nor is it unknowable.  The accuracy can be ascertained statistically withing a range.  That is normally included in formal surveys along with methodology.  If the one Frank linked is an informal survey, it probably won't have it and won't be valid. 

Slow down and listen to what he's saying. 

Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on July 30, 2012, 03:42:25 PM
I have always heard it was around 10%.  Probably really hard to know.  Many are not out, many are bisexual, etc.  Wide range of levels to each I would imagine.  And that does not take into account all the preachers like Ted Haggard who have been cured.  I wonder if he went to Michelle Bachman's husband for his curing. ;)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 30, 2012, 03:54:19 PM
Tim,

Let me help you out here.  You are jumping on Frank wrongly.  He pointed out that there are fewer homosexuals than Americans think.  That is not bigotry or an assault on gays.   

While surveys are not 100% accurate, it is not a complete guess nor is it unknowable.  The accuracy can be ascertained statistically withing a range.  That is normally included in formal surveys along with methodology.  If the one Frank linked is an informal survey, it probably won't have it and won't be valid. 

Slow down and listen to what he's saying.

be as that may be, but all i've been saying is nobodsy knows the accurate statistic.

I have always heard it was around 10%.  Probably really hard to know.  Many are not out, many are bisexual, etc.  Wide range of levels to each I would imagine.  And that does not take into account all the preachers like Ted Haggard who have been cured.  I wonder if he went to Michelle Bachman's husband for his curing. ;)

Some say 2%, some say 10%, i say it's really complicated and sexuality is fluid. That is what i'm trying to say.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: nogodsforme on July 30, 2012, 03:57:50 PM
When it comes to basic human rights, it does not matter if there are 1% gays or 200% gays. Nobody should have their human rights voted on by other people. Do we vote on whether ugly people should be allowed to marry each other? High school dropouts? Conservatives? People with no rhythm? People who wear mismatched clothes?

Maybe we should. Think of the children! :o &)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 30, 2012, 04:22:37 PM
When it comes to basic human rights, it does not matter if there are 1% gays or 200% gays. Nobody should have their human rights voted on by other people. Do we vote on whether ugly people should be allowed to marry each other? High school dropouts? Conservatives? People with no rhythm? People who wear mismatched clothes?

Maybe we should. Think of the children! :o &)

I strongly agree! That is why no matter what, people shouldn't have their rights voted. Civil rights are human rights. Even as someone who is hearing impaired, would they start taking my right to marry because i can't hear either? Even though we're of small percentage as well, we still shouldn't have our rights voted!
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: nogodsforme on July 30, 2012, 04:36:42 PM
The whole point of having a constitution is that there are some things that everyone is entitled to, unless there is a bona fide reason. Equal protection under the law.
 
Like every citizen can vote.[1]

Ironically, there are countries that don't have a constitution that give people rights that we don't: Israel and England both have gay rights and universal health care.
 1. With a few exceptions like prisoners, ex-felons and minors. I don't agree with the  ex-felon part. And who cares if a person works with coal or whatever?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on July 30, 2012, 04:37:58 PM
Then what was Romney doing at both of those places???
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: nogodsforme on July 30, 2012, 04:52:20 PM
Then what was Romney doing at both of those places???

Begging for money from wealthy, healthy homos.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: LoriPinkAngel on July 30, 2012, 05:02:30 PM
Sarah supports them!

(http://images.politico.com/global/2012/07/120727_sarah_palin_chick_fi_a.jpg)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/30/cnn-stupid-girls-sarah-palin_n_1718575.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

bwahahahahah
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: nogodsforme on July 30, 2012, 06:36:50 PM
Her husband's smile looks really forced. Must be having to hear that nails-on-a-blackboard voice of hers all day and night. Can you imagine?  :o
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on July 30, 2012, 06:37:18 PM
^Yeah, I read that earlier.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 30, 2012, 07:34:26 PM
Her husband's smile looks really forced. Must be having to hear that nails-on-a-blackboard voice of hers all day and night. Can you imagine?  :o

hehe, only he would want to hang around her. Maybe he's regretting that decision.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on July 30, 2012, 10:23:55 PM
Wasn't he suppose to be getting some on the side?  I can see why.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: screwtape on July 31, 2012, 07:25:54 AM
be as that may be, but all i've been saying is nobodsy knows the accurate statistic.

Yes, they do.  Do they know down to the person exactly how many people self identify as homosexual in the US?  Probably not.  Is it possible they know how many within ±5%?  Absolutely.  And accuracy is defined as a range.  For example, ±5% would be a measure of accuracy.

Statistics are used to determine facts about a population (of anything) by taking a sampling.  It saves the effort of observing every person, or part (in manufacturing).  And the accuracy of the facts is determined by the sample size.  When determining something like how many homos there are in a population, you have to make sure your sampling is not just big enough, but also random enough.  This is the hard part. Sampling too much in one area is just one way to get skewed results.  But professionally designed and executed surveys should avoid those pitfalls.

Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: DumpsterFire on July 31, 2012, 08:32:54 AM
I think the biggest issue with the accuracy of these statistics is that this is a subject about which folks may not be very honest. I guarantee you there are people (mostly men, I would guess) out there that will never admit they've had homosexual feelings and/or experiences, no matter how anonymous the survey is purported to be. The only question is, how much do these holdouts skew the results?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 31, 2012, 09:02:48 AM
I think the biggest issue with the accuracy of these statistics is that this is a subject about which folks may not be very honest. I guarantee you there are people (mostly men, I would guess) out there that will never admit they've had homosexual feelings and/or experiences, no matter how anonymous the survey is purported to be. The only question is, how much do these holdouts skew the results?

That is what i'm trying to say. I'm sorry Screwtape, but statistics are flawed, very flawed.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: screwtape on July 31, 2012, 09:10:34 AM
I think the biggest issue with the accuracy of these statistics is that this is a subject about which folks may not be very honest. I guarantee you there are people (mostly men, I would guess) out there that will never admit they've had homosexual feelings and/or experiences, no matter how anonymous the survey is purported to be. The only question is, how much do these holdouts skew the results?

Then we are talking about two different ideas of accuracy.  I am talking about who self identifies and the statistical confidence of that.  From that perspective, those in denial do not skew the results at all.  They do not self identify. 

You are talking about their deepest, most hidden desires.  Does that really matter for the purposes of the survey?  I don't know.  I'd say, probably not.  Those who deny homo feelings are not invested in gay marriage, do not have to worry about gay rights, etc and so are not part of the demographic being quantified.

But I do agree that sexuality is not black and white.  I think it is a sliding scale.

Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jsmacks on July 31, 2012, 07:43:03 PM
I really like their food but I may have to rethink going there.

As a fast food chain, their level of quality and consistency is superb, but I definitely don't agree with their openly anti gay views. Just seems bad for business IMO, but they thrive in conservative states so I doubt their statements will have little impact in those states but I can see them having some problems expanding north and rightly so. I don't see a problem with them personally being Christian conservatives but being anti gay is just uncool.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on July 31, 2012, 07:48:52 PM
Florida is a moderate state, or "purple" as some refer to it politically. They may have problems here. It's mainly red on top but in the middle and in the south (especially Key West), it's a pretty dark purple.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: DumpsterFire on July 31, 2012, 10:02:57 PM
Then we are talking about two different ideas of accuracy.  I am talking about who self identifies and the statistical confidence of that.  From that perspective, those in denial do not skew the results at all.  They do not self identify. 

You are talking about their deepest, most hidden desires.  Does that really matter for the purposes of the survey?  I don't know.  I'd say, probably not.  Those who deny homo feelings are not invested in gay marriage, do not have to worry about gay rights, etc and so are not part of the demographic being quantified.

But I do agree that sexuality is not black and white.  I think it is a sliding scale.

Well, if we are only considering those who self-identify as homosexual then my point is moot. However, if we are trying to determine a true and accurate representation of the actual percentage of the populace that is homosexual, we must consider the variable of people who would otherwise be considered homosexual refusing to classify themselves as such. I severely doubt that the Ted Haggards or Larry Craigs of the world would ever own up to their true desires. So the question is, how many people fall into this category[1]? Is it even a statistically significant number?

I suggest that it is a significant number, and would (admittedly unscientifically) guess that whatever the number of self-identifying homosexuals is, there is perhaps half again as many unwilling to out themselves. Maybe more.

The bottom line is that we will never really know the true percentage of gays out there as long as homosexuality remains so persecuted and stigmatized in our society.
 1. The criteria for determining what could be considered "homosexual" is very subjective, as well. Is it fair to classify someone as gay or even bi if they are turned on by the same sex, but have never acted upon it? What about someone who is primarily or solely turned on by the same sex but chooses to live asexually? Definitely another gray area.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 31, 2012, 11:21:00 PM
The bottom line is that we will never really know the true percentage of gays out there as long as homosexuality remains so persecuted and stigmatized in our society.

Thank you, that's all i was trying to say!
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: LoriPinkAngel on August 01, 2012, 12:22:15 AM
I really like their food but I may have to rethink going there.

As a fast food chain, their level of quality and consistency is superb, but I definitely don't agree with their openly anti gay views. Just seems bad for business IMO, but they thrive in conservative states so I doubt their statements will have little impact in those states but I can see them having some problems expanding north and rightly so. I don't see a problem with them personally being Christian conservatives but being anti gay is just uncool.

I don't think religious affiliation has any place in business unless the product happens to be a religious product of some kind & even then I would think anyone would have a right to purchase that product.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jetson on August 01, 2012, 06:46:57 AM
The bottom line is that we will never really know the true percentage of gays out there as long as homosexuality remains so persecuted and stigmatized in our society.

You can say the same about atheists, sadly.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: screwtape on August 01, 2012, 07:53:11 AM
However, if we are trying to determine a true and accurate representation of the actual percentage of the populace that is homosexual, we must consider the variable of people who would otherwise be considered homosexual refusing to classify themselves as such.

You touched on the problem with this in your footnote.  Homosexual is a lable that is convenient and useful in some instances, but it is not an objective quality.  Because of that, I don't think you can speculate on how many "real" homosexist but aren't being counted.  The only "actual" homosexuals that matter are the ones who admit it.  As I said, the ones who don't are not part of the group.

That is not a problem with statistics.  That is a problem with psychology.


Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Azdgari on August 01, 2012, 07:58:57 AM
And as Jetson said, the same is true of atheists.  If you hide it, you're effectively a theist.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Quesi on August 01, 2012, 01:42:21 PM
Well, it seems to me that there are quite a few companies out there who recognize the the LGBT population is significant enough to be a market they want to court. 

One of my fb friends posted this today: 

(http://www.goodasyou.org/.a/6a00d8341c503453ef017616ee4249970c-pi)
And here is the article to go with it.  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/01/amtrak-ride-with-pride-campaign_n_1728817.html#slide=1080228 

At the bottom of the article they have a bunch of videos of LGBT ads, and although I'd never seen any of them air on tv (some of them were banned) they were really interesting to watch.  My favorites included:

http://youtu.be/IcfViklWRsU

http://youtu.be/SBuKuA9nHsw

http://youtu.be/1pwN-yiho4M

I liked the ads.  Not the products. 
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on August 01, 2012, 02:43:01 PM
I love those ads. I've seen the Renault ad several times on tv. Very cute.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on August 01, 2012, 02:45:15 PM
Well, it seems to me that there are quite a few companies out there who recognize the the LGBT population is significant enough to be a market they want to court...

Both my 81 year old mom and I love ads that show sexual diversity, and smile at them all. Why? Because we have family and friends who are lgbt. The pro-gay market is far larger than just those who are, themselves, lgbt.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Garja on August 01, 2012, 02:45:22 PM
Those are awesome, especially the Doritos one, but the others are cool in a more "touching" way.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: DumpsterFire on August 01, 2012, 10:40:10 PM
The only "actual" homosexuals that matter are the ones who admit it.  As I said, the ones who don't are not part of the group.

I understand and agree somewhat with where you are coming from on this, but I think it is short sighted to write off the entire "closeted" portion of the gay populace. There are plenty of people out there who know they are gay, but due to various outside pressures or influences are unwilling or reasonably unable to identify themselves as such. So while these folks are not necessarily "part of the group", they certainly can and do exercise their influence by voting for/against candidates and measures that support/oppose their views, by donating time or money to gay-friendly organizations, and by being very particular about where they might purchase a chicken sandwich.

Jetson brings up a great point with the parallels to atheism. I live in the buckle of the bible belt. As vocal and expressive with my views as I am on this forum, I don't walk around here with my atheism on my sleeve. If someone tells me to have a "blessed day," instead of ripping them a new one, I just say, "Thanks, same to you." As a relatively recent convert to atheism, perhaps this is a reflex that will change in time, but for now its just a whole lot easier to go along with it, at least in such situations where it is relatively harmless to do so. So I guess I'm a "closeted atheist," but that does not mean that I cannot exercise any influence.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jetson on August 02, 2012, 07:19:02 AM
Our local Chik-Fil-A was completely jam packed with traffic yesterday evening.  On one side, it was a disgusting site to behold, thinking that perhaps all of those people were there to support bigotry and homophobia.  But then I started thinking that there may have been people there just supporting free speech - you know, the kind of free speech that we hold so dearly, that allows the owner of a business to openly and actively speak against and fund efforts to deny human rights.

I decided that most were there to support homophobia and bigotry.  Fuck those Christians.  If they can't stand strong against homophobia and same-sex marriage, then they don't deserve any respect at all for their religion.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: screwtape on August 02, 2012, 08:11:01 AM
but I think it is short sighted to write off the entire "closeted" portion of the gay populace.

I don't think I am writing them off and I didn't think we were talking about closeted individuals. 

...but due to various outside pressures or influences are unwilling or reasonably unable to identify themselves as such.

I'm confused.  Are you talking about people who are unwilling to publicly admit to being gay or people who won't even say it on a confidential survey?  I thought it was the latter we were talking about.

So while these folks are not necessarily "part of the group", they certainly can and do exercise their influence by voting for/against candidates and measures that support/oppose their views, by donating time or money to gay-friendly organizations, and by being very particular about where they might purchase a chicken sandwich.

I think we're off track here.  My involvement in this thread has been to help Tim understand a couple of things.  First, his outrage with Frank was misplaced.  Second, to give him some background on statistics so he is aware of things like accuracy. 

My point about whom to count was to illustrate the reliability of statistics.  It is possible to know the size of a subcategory of a population by sampling/ surveying, if it is done correctly.  And the definition of that subcategory all depends on why you are counting.  If the goal is to understand a demographic - homosexual men and women - for political messaging, then the ones who are in denial and do not think of themselves as gay are not your target audience and should not be counted.  While they may sometimes engage in homosexual acts, they are not members of the gay community and not part of this demographic.   

Closet gays - those who think of them selves as gay and may secretly "indulge" but publicly portray themselves as straight - may be part of that demographic and are not being "written off" - at least, not by me.  They would have an opportunity to be privately and confidentially counted.  If they chose to falsely answer, they are writing themselves off and are effectively excluding themselves from the community.



Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 02, 2012, 08:20:47 AM
Our local Chik-Fil-A was completely jam packed with traffic yesterday evening.  On one side, it was a disgusting site to behold, thinking that perhaps all of those people were there to support bigotry and homophobia.  But then I started thinking that there may have been people there just supporting free speech - you know, the kind of free speech that we hold so dearly, that allows the owner of a business to openly and actively speak against and fund efforts to deny human rights.

I felt disgusted as well. IMO it's not a matter of free speech. I was debating one of my friends all night last night and this was something he couldn't understand. I'm sure some people out there are all up in arms over what the CEO said. I'm not. You would have to be living under a rock to not know Chick-fil-A was a religious company with Christian values. What really shocked me was following the money trail of their donations. That was what I found so appalling. Yes the CEO's speech is what brought my attention to the anti-gay agendas but the root of my concern wasn't the speech itself. It amazes me how the masses don't either know this story or don't believe it to be true.

My friend last night told me that the tax document from CFA's charity was a fraud. Even after I showed him where the IRS confirms that the source of the document was legitimate. He said it was illegal for those records to be released. When I showed him where the IRS explains the Freedom of Information Act he thought that too was a lie. Because you can't believe anything you see on the internet. It has to be on a national news outlet. Because the reporters are who we should trust and not the IRS or Guidestar as a legitimate source of information.

::facepalm::

These people are seriously deluded.

I decided that most were there to support homophobia and bigotry.  Fuck those Christians.  If they can't stand strong against homophobia and same-sex marriage, then they don't deserve any respect at all for their religion.

I'm with you on this. My friend decided to "pull the race card"... Ya know, "What do you expect? It took 200 years to end slavery! Why are these gays rushing things?"

That was when I lost faith in humanity. It was almost funny last night, but ya know I could cry it's so sad.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: DumpsterFire on August 02, 2012, 09:04:27 AM
I'm confused.  Are you talking about people who are unwilling to publicly admit to being gay or people who won't even say it on a confidential survey?  I thought it was the latter we were talking about.

I am saying that it is likely that both of the above statements are true for some people.

If the goal is to understand a demographic - homosexual men and women - for political messaging, then the ones who are in denial and do not think of themselves as gay are not your target audience and should not be counted.  While they may sometimes engage in homosexual acts, they are not members of the gay community and not part of this demographic.   

I agree with this statement.

Closet gays - those who think of them selves as gay and may secretly "indulge" but publicly portray themselves as straight - may be part of that demographic and are not being "written off" - at least, not by me.  They would have an opportunity to be privately and confidentially counted.  If they chose to falsely answer, they are writing themselves off and are effectively excluding themselves from the community.

Again, you bring up some very good points, and for purposes of demographic marketing you are mostly correct, although I would argue that gay-targeted marketing would most likely appeal to both in and out-of-closet gays.

But demographics, shmemographics! The only thing I'm trying to address is that there are various groups loudly proclaiming a specific percentage (the numbers skew high or low, usually depending on the political persuasion of the group) of the population is gay, when it seems impossible to determine a reliable number given today's societal climate. Maybe I'm just uber paranoid, but if I was desperate to keep a secret that I feared would ruin my life if known, I would never own up to it. Even in a "private and confidential" survey. And I'm not even gay, but I can imagine how utterly difficult it must be to live with that pressure.

But regardless of what the actual numbers might be, gays should have equal rights, including the right to marry, simply because it is the right thing to do. It shouldn't matter that they have a strong or weak voting block, or a powerful presence in Washington, or whatever (and I don't mean to imply that you disagree, Tape). No one should have to live in fear because of who they love.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Quesi on August 02, 2012, 10:58:08 AM
Yet another fb post from this morning.


(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/555711_396469867082058_2067859163_n.jpg)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2012, 11:06:58 AM
I think that the only closeted homosexuals that can be counted as part of the problem are those who are closeted but vocally oppose homosexually.

I have a 1st cousin who didn't come out of the closet 'til he was 24 but his mother works for the Southern Baptist Convention, so, I think he was afraid of coming out based on that. Though, from my understanding: he came out to his sister when he was a teenager.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on August 02, 2012, 12:10:02 PM
...IMO it's not a matter of free speech. I was debating one of my friends all night last night and this was something he couldn't understand. I'm sure some people out there are all up in arms over what the CEO said. I'm not. You would have to be living under a rock to not know Chick-fil-A was a religious company with Christian values. What really shocked me was following the money trail of their donations. That was what I found so appalling. Yes the CEO's speech is what brought my attention to the anti-gay agendas but the root of my concern wasn't the speech itself. It amazes me how the masses don't either know this story or don't believe it to be true...

Agreed. Here is a site that details some of the "charities" that chik-fil-a supports.

http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201111010001 (http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201111010001)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 02, 2012, 12:26:12 PM
Agreed. Here is a site that details some of the "charities" that chik-fil-a supports.

http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201111010001 (http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201111010001)

Thanks to some sources Quesi gave me I read all about those last night. I was more appalled the more I read. I think this whole situation is pushing me more and more towards the side of anti-theism. I've resisted that stance for a really long time because I'm also pro-tolerance but the level of delusion and stupidity[1] is becoming intolerable.
 1. I say this loosely, these people aren't really "stupid" in the other 99% of their lives.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Garja on August 02, 2012, 02:05:00 PM
Apparently the bigoted assholes had a record setting day.

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/08/01/chick_fil_a_appreciation_day_huckabee_conservative_americans_to_support_chicken_chain_s_anti_lgbt_views_.html

I'm ashamed of my country.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 02, 2012, 02:13:31 PM
::National Face Palm::
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Frank on August 02, 2012, 02:19:41 PM
Apparently the bigoted assholes had a record setting day.

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/08/01/chick_fil_a_appreciation_day_huckabee_conservative_americans_to_support_chicken_chain_s_anti_lgbt_views_.html

I'm ashamed of my country.

With this level of political discourse I'm not surprised. Have you any idea how dumb this whole thing sounds? The Chick-fil-A people must be made up with all this free publicity. Colonel Sanders must be kicking himself.

Quote
Seems like quite a few chicken-loving, same-sex marriage foes turned out for Wednesday's Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day

Quote
Gay rights supporters, meanwhile, are still gearing up for what they're calling "National Same-Sex Kiss Day at Chick-fil-A" on Friday, a name that pretty much explains it all. "Let's show Chick-fil-A thanks for their support of Love, Equality, and the Real Definition of Marriage! Invite your friends!"
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2012, 02:25:17 PM
Perhaps some straight people should attend in support of "kiss day" by kissing the same sex. Perhaps not as passionatly, though. I'd do it.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Frank on August 02, 2012, 02:28:42 PM
Perhaps some straight people should attend in support of "kiss day" by kissing the same sex. Perhaps not as passionatly, though. I'd do it.

-Nam

Maybe they'll just close or have the police toss anyone out who start kissing each other. Then again maybe conservatives will turn out and fill outlets up to stop gay people getting in.

Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 02, 2012, 02:39:53 PM
Perhaps some straight people should attend in support of "kiss day" by kissing the same sex. Perhaps not as passionatly, though. I'd do it.

-Nam

I'm not going on that day. I don't believe it's constructive to the cause for me to go kiss a girl when I'm straight. I did donate to GLAAD yesterday to show my support.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2012, 02:45:41 PM
Well, it'd add to the numbers. I mean, seeing a few do it in each place probably wouldn't have much effect especially in the more rural areas.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Garja on August 02, 2012, 03:00:32 PM
Perhaps some straight people should attend in support of "kiss day" by kissing the same sex. Perhaps not as passionatly, though. I'd do it.

-Nam

The thought crossed my mind, but then I remembered we dont have a CFA locally.  And I would be lying if I said kissing a buddy would be easy... grab his ass sure, but kissing would be a little rough.  :)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 02, 2012, 03:04:15 PM
Nam,

TN is weird. I read that my home town is considered the 8th "Gayest" city in America... I didn't take the time to research it but we do have a major college and a lively party town. I guess it's entirely possible, but who are we kidding?!? This is the middle of the bible belt, these people around here were lined up all the way around the CFA store yesterday! It's insane how many bigots are around here. IDK I guess I'm not "confrontational" enough to protest. I'm still not even fully out of the "atheist closet".
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 02, 2012, 03:05:18 PM
grab his ass sure, but kissing would be a little rough.  :)

Are you an ex jock?  ;)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2012, 03:17:32 PM
Nam,

TN is weird. I read that my home town is considered the 8th "Gayest" city in America... I didn't take the time to research it but we do have a major college and a lively party town. I guess it's entirely possible, but who are we kidding?!? This is the middle of the bible belt, these people around here were lined up all the way around the CFA store yesterday! It's insane how many bigots are around here. IDK I guess I'm not "confrontational" enough to protest. I'm still not even fully out of the "atheist closet".

And that's one of the main methods on how they win, especially in rural areas: fear, and offerings of violence toward those who oppose them.

I was born in the bible-belt, lived there for a few years. Never let any of them push me around. Perhaps I'm different, my height and size, the fact I'm a guy, who knows. Perhaps it's none of those things. But there are more of us than them in the grand scheme of things yet they always seem to rise victorious. Why? 'Cause we take more peaceful approaches, and they do not.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2012, 03:20:28 PM
grab his ass sure, but kissing would be a little rough.  :)

Are you an ex jock?  ;)

I wondered that, too. I don't go around grabbing guys asses as if it were no big deal. And I used to play all sorts of sports in the past.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: screwtape on August 02, 2012, 03:22:53 PM
... grab his ass sure, but kissing would be a little rough.  :)

is a happy ending out of the question?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2012, 03:29:25 PM
I like happy endings.

;)

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 02, 2012, 03:48:46 PM
Why? 'Cause we take more peaceful approaches, and they do not.

-Nam

More than likely. I'm not sure I'm prepared to make a change in my aggressiveness though. I'm getting old now... My priorities tend to focus around my family and anything that has a potential for violence or jail, even if it's a noble cause, is out of the question for me. Picketing/protesting is just not something I'm prepared to accept the potential consequences of.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2012, 04:34:41 PM
^again: why they win.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 02, 2012, 04:41:23 PM
IDK if it really is a win. I still donated money to a charity, they can use my money to fund a more organized and progressive campaign than I could personally do (even I decided to).
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2012, 04:49:06 PM
Charities are fine. I am sure they do a good deal towards better acceptance. But when you have people in society able to do something in the "front lines" they would rather stay home for selfish reasons, no matter the reasons. Now, perhaps these reasons are founded on good principle but too many people take that road.

Politically: Democrats outnumber Republicans but for selfish reasons many of them stay home rather than vote. Or vote for a person who doesn't have or care for their viewpoints in any way.

Same thing.

We outnumber them but they always seem to stay in power politically, and otherwise.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 02, 2012, 05:06:16 PM
But when you have people in society able to do something in the "front lines" they would rather stay home for selfish reasons, no matter the reasons.

So going all "Katy Perry"[1] on CFA would do more good than donating to a charity? Seems rather subjective doesn't it?
 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAp9BKosZXs
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2012, 05:27:42 PM
Even the lesser of us can do our small part on the "front lines". As a whole: it can make a difference. Donating to charities in support of such causes, I am not belittling. Making excuses for why to not fight in person: I am.

Protesting on the day that all those anti-gay marriage went to support the restaurant, going there and protesting is being on the front lines. Did anyone here do that?

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 02, 2012, 06:05:53 PM
Online petitions have helped stop several companies from doing things their consumers didn't like. Public pressure via social networking seems to be the new "it" factor. I don't know the overall success[1] of this movement but I've seen several things on Change.Org[2] that had companies changing their ways.

The problem with the CFA issue is that we don't out number them. I don't even really think it's a close race. There are people in the gay community who enjoy their chicken more than they value protecting their own civil rights. I don't fault them but it just pads the stats when we have people who will continue to eat there no matter what their sexual orientation or religious belief is.

It's sad that food that is fast, convenient, and terrible for you can make people accept that their own civil liberties are being hindered by the company mass producing this food. For example one of my fiance's superiors is a lesbian. She said she didn't really care who CFA donated to that she liked their food enough to ignore it. I'm sure there are many more like her. 

I don't think standing in front of the store kissing a girl will accomplish anything. It would be a cute default photo for Facebook for a day or two until the smoke clears and it's back to business as usual. I'd rather give my money to people who can orchestrate a larger campaign that will have more success than happy feelings for a day or two on Facebook. I'm just saying, we all value our contributions differently. If anyone wants to post pics of themselves making out with the same sex tomorrow I will gladly share it on Facebook to get a few likes and the random "WTG" from someone I never talk to IRL any ways.
 1. SOPA being the most successful movement to my knowledge.
 2. Just one example, there are many.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Garja on August 02, 2012, 06:22:54 PM
grab his ass sure, but kissing would be a little rough.  :)

Are you an ex jock?  ;)

I wondered that, too. I don't go around grabbing guys asses as if it were no big deal. And I used to play all sorts of sports in the past.

-Nam

Played a little football in HS, but wouldn't consider myself a "jock" by any stretch of the imagination.  Just a buddy of mine that have known eachother pretty much since birth, hes like my brother.  We like to act mock-gay every once in a while if for no other reason than to make our wives (female btw. lol) roll their eyes... good times.

I am reminded of an R Lee Ermey quote from Full Metal Jacket, but you guys dont know me well enough yet to bust that gem out of my memory.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2012, 07:21:23 PM
Kimberly,

The suggestion I made was more humorous than serious. I wasn't expecting straight people to go that far when other avenues are presented to them. However, the only places in the U.S. where those who are against gay marriage would be in the most conservative of states, notin the most liberal nor moderate ones.

Yes, the social network most likely has a far more reach than a offline approach but this doesn't mean offline approaches do not have their own grandstands. However, the internet allows anonimoty, which isn't always a good thing.

Garja,

R. Lee Ermey rules "You can give your heart to Jesus but your ass belongs to the Corp!" [might be paraphrasing; memory is fickle]

-Nam

Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Garja on August 02, 2012, 08:46:58 PM
K
Garja,

R. Lee Ermey rules "You can give your heart to Jesus but your ass belongs to the Corp!" [might be paraphrasing; memory is fickle]

-Nam

Thats one, but not the one I was thinking about.... Mine was more along the lines of what comes from Texas.  ;)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2012, 09:08:14 PM
There's been variants of that in films over the years:

Quote
Drill Sergeant: Where you from, boy?
Private: Texas, Sergeant!"
Sergeant: Texas? The only thing I know from Texas are "steers" and "queers". You don't look like a steer, so are you a queer, boy?

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 03, 2012, 10:51:38 AM
I just watched this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg-jzlWcc0E&feature=player_embedded

Original Source: Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02/adam-smith-chick-fil-a-drive-bully_n_1735357.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009)

Nam,
Since you may not be able to watch the video or click the link I copied the transcript from the article for you:

Quote
Smith: "You know why I'm getting my free water, right?"
Worker: "No."
S: "Because Chick-Fil-A is a hateful corporation."
W: "I disagree. We don't treat any of our customers differently.."
S: "I know, but the corporation gives money to hate groups. Hate groups. Just because people want to kiss another guy."
W: "I'm staying neutral on this subject... my personal beliefs don't belong in the workplace."
S: "Yeah I believe that too, I don't believe corporations should be giving money to hateful groups.. I'll take my water"
W: "I'm really uncomfortable that you're videotaping this.."
W: "It's my pleasure to serve you, always."
S: "Oh of course, I'm glad that I can take a little bit of money from Chick-Fil-A, and maybe less money to hate groups."
W: "Well we're always happy to serve all our guests."
S: "I don't know how you live with yourself and work here. I don't understand it. This is a horrible corporation with horrible values. You deserve better."
W: "I hope you have a really nice day, and.."
S: "I will, I just did something really good, I feel purposeful, thank you so much."
S: "Have a good day... I'm a nice guy by the way, and I'm totally heterosexual.. not a gay [unintelligible] in me, I just can't stand the hate, you know? It's gotta stop, guys. Stand up."

This is OPPOSITE of how people should be responding to this. That poor girl didn't deserve to be treated like that. It looks like she is going to cry at any moment. I can't believe someone would hurt an innocent person like that. Kudos to her for her PR response. I would have told the guy to fuck off. Not really but I would have been tempted to.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 03, 2012, 11:44:21 AM
^I agree.

Individual employees may or may not agree with everything their company works for. I have known people who worked at Disney who were not for the active participation of the company toward the gay community. One would asj: why do they work there then? Mainly: the benefits package. Plus you, and your family can go there for free. Who wouldn't want that?

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 03, 2012, 12:05:20 PM
I just found out a few weeks ago that the company I work for openly supports gay marriage. I got lucky in that regards but I wouldn't quit working for them if they didn't. I gotta pay my bills too! People should really understand that the worker ant doesn't deserve the abuse you feel like giving the Queen aka COO/CEO's. I get chewed out all day because I "represent" the "face" of the company. Okay, whatever, it comes with the job title. But what that guy did is beyond acceptable. I really don't understand people sometimes, this whole movement is about treating people with equality. I can't even imagine what this guy thought he would be accomplishing by doing this. He should have stopped after getting the free water. Or at worst shouted, "I support equaaaalityyyyyy!" as he drove off.

Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Hatter23 on August 03, 2012, 05:44:46 PM
Still huge lines at Chic-Fil-A of people trying to show those darn liberals who's boss. Makes me think of the supporters of the White Coffee Pot restaurants when they refused to desegregate, look at who well that chain is doing now
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on August 03, 2012, 05:50:07 PM
i've made my blog about why io think supporters of Chic-fil-a do not understand why many of us are ticked at this homophobic fast food chain. http://lgbtequality2012.blogspot.com/2012/08/chic-fil-supporters-understand-nothing.html

Ok, I’m going to make this perfectly clear to these supporters.






1)                      This is not a “Free speech” issue, this is a financial issue! (Referring to donating their $5 millions to anti-gay group)


2)                      Chic-fil-a is donating almost 5 million dollars to anti-gay groups


3)                      The anti-gay groups wants to dehumanize us, kill us, imprison us, have us be beaten, be denied any human rights whatsoever, and to live in the closet forever.


4)                      The reason number 3 is precisely why we’re protesting and boycotting chic-fil-a!


5)                      To support Chic-Fil-A is to support criminalization of LGBT individuals, of putting LGBT people in ex-gay therapies, of denying human rights, of wanting death penalty for LGBT people, of supporting the lies about LGBT individuals.


6)                      By supporting Chic-Fil-A, you’re clearly saying you want more Matthew Shepards and all who were murdered because they were LGBT. You’re saying you want more Jamey Rodemeyers and countless of teenage youths to commit suicide for being gay, you’re saying that LGBT people should have no right to job, housing, marriage, family, or anything, and you’re saying that LGBT children should be forced to live in streets or into ex-gay therapies.


7)                      We did not fight for many years for civil rights and equality to have it all thrown away.


8)                      That is why we’re boycotting Chic-Fil-A!


9)                      If you’re a gay man or lesbian who supports Chic-Fil-A, are you asking for people to arrest you? To kill you? To deny you rights? To treat you like you’re some evil sex deviant boogeyman?


10)                 The free speech does not mean “Anything I say goes, anyone who disagrees is suppressing my religious freedom!” Free speech means you’re free to belief whatever you want, say whatever you want. It does not mean you’re free from criticism or disagreement. If you can’t handle people standing up for themselves and disagreeing with you, then you have a problem with the first amendment.


11)                 Dan Cathy is free to believe whatever he wants to believe, he is free to say whatever he wants, but that is not why we’re against him. We’re against him because he wants LGBT individuals dead, stripped of all human rights, imprisoned, dehumanized, and be forced to be back in the closet and out of sight.


12)                 I fight for equality and human rights because we are all human beings too. We should all have the right to marry, to housing, to jobs, to serving the military, to having a family, to being able to be ourselves.


13)                 As for the kiss in, this is a peaceful protest. This is to clearly state to homophobes that, “Hey, we’re gay, we’re capable of love just like you, get over yourselves.”


14)                 To get upset over the kiss in is like getting upset over gays and lesbians adopting children or getting married. LGBT couples should be allowed to kiss in public just like everyone else. To say otherwise is to say, “Let’s just hide in the closet just to appease the bigots.”


15)                 Never should we appease bigotry. If we do nothing to stand up to homophobia, then we lose. You can’t change the world by doing nothing! You can’t strop discrimination by doing nothing!


16)                 Remember the blacks who fought for equal rights? If they hadn’t had protest, they wouldn’t be equal today!


17)                 If women didn’t fight for equality, they wouldn’t have it today!


18)                 If we allow Chic-Fil-A to destroy LGBT individuals, then for all you know, they’ll come after you too!
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jetson on August 03, 2012, 06:42:44 PM
A pastor posted this (a blog - worth the read):

Quote
Thousands and thousands and thousands of people proudly lined up to support Mike Huckabee’s “Chick-Fil-A Appreciation Day” yesterday. By all accounts, it was a successful campaign, perhaps one of Huckabee’s most memorable actions, a deed that might warrant etching “#ChickFilA” on his tombstone so future Americans will learn of the greatness that occurred on August 1, 2012.
Many of yesterday’s appreciators were born again Christians, people who, I can only assume, claim to love God, put their trust in Jesus, and have a desire that all people hear and experience the Good News of Christ. That fact alone changes the headline of what happened yesterday.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure Chick-Fil-A owners felt loved, made lots of money, and greatly appreciated the somewhat positive press they received all day long. And yes, Mike Huckabee has reason to be proud (dare I say, even cocksure?) of the influence he wields to get Americans to buy chicken. Those CFA cows no doubt love Mike Huckabee!
So good for Chick-Fil-A! And three cheers for Mike Huckabee! And good tidings of great joy to cows everywhere.
Yet, amid all of that CFA-appreciating success, the Church (at least, the part that exists here in America) failed miserably. Every member of the Church isn’t to blame, of course. Many individual churches and denominations played no role whatsoever in promoting yesterday’s Great Chicken Awakening. Some Christians, churches, and denominations even tried to throw a social media wrench into the festivities. Some of those attempts went viral and garnered a great deal of attention. But still, chicken-loving Christians everywhere rallied behind CFA yesterday. The crowds were so big that you might have thought that Chick-Fil-A was giving away free iPads or Cabbage Patch Dolls or freshly fallen manna from Heaven. And while lots of Christians chose not to participate for various reasons, many did and the Church as a whole suffered.
Here’s why.
ONE
Yesterday’s campaign, while I don’t think it should be considered or called “hate,” neither can it be called love. Christians all over America ignored the second greatest commandment: to love our neighbors. Call yesterday what you want, freedom of speech, a rally behind “family values,” a sincere fascination with CFA’s brand of fried poultry… but it cannot be called love. It was not love.
TWO
People felt hate and we ignored that. At the end of the day, regardless of whether or not your Christian understanding of scripture harbors hate or not, a large group of people felt hated. Again, we can debate this point all day long, but that does not change the fact that people felt hatred because of what happened yesterday. Whether or not hate actually existed is not the point, people felt hated. And rather than acknowledging those feelings or trying to understand or engage them in any way, Christians everywhere marched off to their local CFA like it was a cross to bear, a necessity, a battle cry of some sort, the waffle fry’s last stand.
THREE
By rallying behind CFA, Christians put an issue above people. And it’s impossible to follow Jesus when issues trump people. Jesus never said “love God, love causes.” That is not the message that gets preached in churches all over America on Sunday mornings. I’ve heard a hundred different explanations from patrons of yesterday’s rally and nearly every one of them gives precedence to “the cause”. We can’t embrace love, mercy, hope, and peace when our causes (or a place of business) trumps people.
FOUR
Once again, the mass actions of Christians built another wall of distrust between the Church and the GLBTQ communities. Nobody was surprised that the CEO of CFA is against gay marriage. Nobody was surprised that Mike Huckabee made the decision to rally support behind CFA. And nobody was surprised that Christians took Huckabee’s words as marching orders, leading the charge with more passion, delight, and Instagram pictures than what we express for so many more important issues facing this country. If Mike Huckabee had declared yesterday “Homeless Appreciation Day,” would the response have been even half as large and loud? Yes, I know; that’s an unfair question. But we’re Christians, so we’re very familiar with the use of unfair questions to make a point.
Once in a while, our culture needs to be surprised by how much we love people–all people. Once in a while, our culture needs to be overwhelmed with joy that we are involved in the greater story. Once in a while, our culture needs to see us being a part of the solution and not the problem. But yesterday? There were no surprises. And no surprises only builds more distrust, not peace, not grace, not hope, and not love.
FIVE
Yesterday’s hoopla surrounding CFA did nothing to prove that Christians don’t hate gay people. Oh I know that most Christians will say, “I don’t hate gay people!!”
But did supporting CFA Appreciation Day prove that?
Trust me, I understand that most people who ate chicken sandwiches at CFA yesterday did not do that as an act of hate. I get that. And that’s cool and all, but did the act of going out of your way to CFA prove that to be true? Do you think that the GLBTQ communities believe you? Would you, if you were gay, believe you?
Now before you answer that, remember that yesterday’s CFA Love Day was just one action in a long line of many. Because let’s face it: Christians go WAY out of their way to “hate the sin”–i.e., by voting against gay marriage, voting against civil unions, voicing their angst about gay people adopting children (just to list a few). Is it possible that Christians lose the ability to truly “love the sinner” because they’re so busy “hating the sin”? Do Christians put anywhere near the energy into “loving the sinner” as they do “hating the sin”?
All I know is that the GLBTQ communities are becoming quite used to feeling unloved by Christians. And with good reason.
How many times do we hear Christians say something like, “I don’t hate gay people. I may not agree with their lifestyle. But I don’t hate them… “
If you were gay, would you believe that? Think about it. Would you feel loved by somebody if they included rules, context, and/or explanations about your lifestyle every time they spoke about how much they don’t hate you? Only when talking about gay people do Christians feel the need to preface their “love” or “non-hate” with some variation of “I don’t agree with your lifestyle, but…” Christians don’t talk about any other group of people like that–only gay people.
So, I want to believe Christians when they say “I don’t hate gay people.” But sometimes proof of that is necessary. And yesterday did not prove that. Honestly, yesterday proved little more than how shallow Christians can be sometimes.
Not only did supporting CFA Appreciation Day declare that Christians believe that an issue is more important than people, that declaration was made by the mass consumption of junk food. That fact doesn’t need a punch line. It is a punch line.
Yes, on some level, yesterday was successful. I’m sure that today CFA feels really loved. And I’m sure Mike Huckabee feels loved, too. And I’m sure lots of people, many Christians included, feel great pride for supporting the cause. But there’s also a large group of people, good people, people you might disagree with, that today, feel really unloved.
If it’s true that Christians don’t hate gay people, today would be a really good day to prove it.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: rev45 on August 03, 2012, 07:22:28 PM
^You sure a pastor posted that?  It sounds somewhat.... reasonable.  To me it sounds more like something I would read from a non-religious person.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Airyaman on August 03, 2012, 07:24:28 PM
i've made my blog about why io think supporters of Chic-fil-a do not understand why many of us are ticked at this homophobic fast food chain. http://lgbtequality2012.blogspot.com/2012/08/chic-fil-supporters-understand-nothing.html

Ok, I’m going to make this perfectly clear to these supporters.
<SNIP>

I am a skeptic. In all things, so I don't run often with emotions, I check my sources. This post shows you are only a skeptic when it comes to some things, not all, because what you have posted is without any real evidence.

Real skeptics love evidence.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 03, 2012, 07:27:08 PM
Jetson,

No link to the blog?

Surprised I read the whole thing.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Airyaman on August 03, 2012, 07:28:40 PM
^You sure a pastor posted that?  It sounds somewhat.... reasonable.  To me it sounds more like something I would read from a non-religious person.

I see nothing that indicates that the blog writer is a pastor. He calls himself an author, I think he is a Christian blogger.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jetson on August 03, 2012, 07:33:43 PM
^You sure a pastor posted that?  It sounds somewhat.... reasonable.  To me it sounds more like something I would read from a non-religious person.

I see nothing that indicates that the blog writer is a pastor. He calls himself an author, I think he is a Christian blogger.

You may be right - I will dig it up...

Edit - adding link, and stating that I cannot see where he is actually a pastor, my apologies for the confusion!

http://matthewpaulturner.net/blog/5-reasons-why-the-church-failed-yesterday/
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on August 03, 2012, 07:43:04 PM
I am a skeptic. In all things, so I don't run often with emotions, I check my sources. This post shows you are only a skeptic when it comes to some things, not all, because what you have posted is without any real evidence.

Real skeptics love evidence.

There are evidence for Chic-fil-a donating $5 million dollars to anti-gay groups. These anti-gay groups have been campaigning to have gays be "exported" there are some who suppoprted Uganda's "Kill the gays" bill and more. The donations were intended for harm. Airyaman, i have no respect for you.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: shnozzola on August 03, 2012, 08:05:23 PM
The whole pro-con homosexual thing continues to tear the christian church in half.  Interesting to watch - which side will win?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Airyaman on August 03, 2012, 08:12:30 PM
I am a skeptic. In all things, so I don't run often with emotions, I check my sources. This post shows you are only a skeptic when it comes to some things, not all, because what you have posted is without any real evidence.

Real skeptics love evidence.

There are evidence for Chic-fil-a donating $5 million dollars to anti-gay groups. These anti-gay groups have been campaigning to have gays be "exported" there are some who suppoprted Uganda's "Kill the gays" bill and more. The donations were intended for harm. Airyaman, i have no respect for you.

So where's the evidence?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jetson on August 03, 2012, 08:15:14 PM

There are evidence for Chic-fil-a donating $5 million dollars to anti-gay groups. These anti-gay groups have been campaigning to have gays be "exported" there are some who suppoprted Uganda's "Kill the gays" bill and more. The donations were intended for harm. Airyaman, i have no respect for you.

Don't be too quick to attack Airyaman for his concern, he is typically honest in his discussion approach from my experience.  I have not searched for this evidence, but it might help if you provide some links, perhaps, to some of this evidence.  Others have been reporting that the actual amounts donated are in question, regarding which groups receive money.

I'm not defending CFA, by the way.  But there is no reason to think that Airyaman is being a dick, IMO.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Airyaman on August 03, 2012, 08:19:41 PM
I am a skeptic in almost all facets of my life. When people make accusations, I like to see evidence. I see very little to support much of the faux outrage over this man's (Cathy) statements made to a Christian publication.

To me this is nothing more than a political witch hunt. I'd love to be proven wrong.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 03, 2012, 08:46:56 PM
^Read the thread. Click the links. Educate yourself.

Edit to add: Quesi gave me some in a PM that may or may not be in this thread.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/chickfila.asp
http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201207020001 (You can cheat and use this cross reference the tax document instead of wiki.)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/02/chick-fil-a-anti-gay-group-donations-_n_1644609.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick-fil-A (See : Controversy regarding LGBT issues)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 03, 2012, 08:56:34 PM
Others have been reporting that the actual amounts donated are in question, regarding which groups receive money.

2009 (http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2009/581/595/2009-581595471-0697bb09-F.pdf)
2010 (http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2010/581/595/2010-581595471-07c2a7b1-F.pdf)
Tax Statements[1] scroll to about 1/4 from the bottom to get to the list of charities that were donated to.

Look for:
"Fom 990PF Part XV Line 3 - Grants and Contributions Paid During the Year of Approved for Future Payment"
On the top of the page.

Cross reference the names of the charities to Wikipedia to find out which ones are anti-gay. It takes time but you will learn more in the process than you would if I did it for you[2].

And just to prevent confusion the source of the tax documents is: http://www.guidestar.org/
Confirmed by the IRS: http://www.irs.gov/foia/index.html
 1. These are not CFA tax documents; these are Winshape. See Wiki to find out about this charity. You can also see how much CFA donated to them directly on the above tax forms.
 2. Not you Jetson, you anyone reading this.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on August 03, 2012, 09:27:59 PM
thanks Kimberly. You beat me to it.

Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 03, 2012, 09:40:04 PM
No worries, I had it readily available from my recent debate with a friend. All of it was given to me by Quesi so we should really thank her. I think the only discrepancy I've personally found in the funding/donations is that most articles are siting the 2010 tax document to charities that didn't receive funds in 2010 but rather in 2009. It took me forever to find Focus on the Family. One of the articles above quoted it in 2010 and this is not true.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Garja on August 03, 2012, 09:42:20 PM
This is something I really like about these forums.  You state something, you'd damn well be better be able to site sources.  To may people get away with making wild claims without having to back shit up.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Quesi on August 04, 2012, 05:39:58 AM
The flap began last month when Chick-fil-A president Dan Cathy told a religious publication that the company backed "the biblical definition of a family" and later said: ""I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at him and say, 'We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage.'"

Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Chick-fil-A-protest-is-sealed-with-a-kiss-3761717.php#ixzz22Za1ELVL

Ok folks.  Here we have it.  The Biblical definition of marriage: 

(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/549590_411675942201424_871623117_n.jpg)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Frank on August 04, 2012, 07:45:27 AM
So how did kiss a gay...........at Chicka-Fil-A............Day go? Was it a big success or something of a let down?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jetson on August 04, 2012, 09:35:10 AM
It looked fairly small compared to the eat at CFA day.  That's based on my local news.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Garja on August 04, 2012, 09:59:03 AM
This is something I really like about these forums.  You state something, you'd damn well be better be able to site sources.  Too many people get away with making wild claims without having to back shit up.


Edit: freaking auto text
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on August 04, 2012, 10:03:10 AM
It looked fairly small compared to the eat at CFA day.  That's based on my local news.
There are not as many gays as there are fuddies.  A smaller turn out was expected.  How many don't eat there anymore could be a much higher number.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 04, 2012, 01:08:50 PM
I've never have eaten there yet, at all. I prefer my own chicken plus Publix[1]. I used to go to Hardees but they don't sell chicken anymore. I like Popeyes but the nearest one to my house is 15 miles away.

I also like Church's chicken but the nearest one is 8 miles away.

-Nam
 1. supermarket that makes fried and baked chicken
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on August 04, 2012, 02:12:22 PM
A pastor posted this (a blog - worth the read): ...

I posted this blog on igi, because I thought it was excellent, and would start some interesting discussion. I got SMITED for it! Guess who? This person implied it was probably not written by a christian, that it was lefty liberal nonsense, and basically ripped me and it a new one. I'm stunned. Seriously. I thought it was very nicely written, and represents the stated ethics of my christian friends and family.

I guess I'm just naive.  :(
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jetson on August 04, 2012, 03:47:43 PM
A pastor posted this (a blog - worth the read): ...

I posted this blog on igi, because I thought it was excellent, and would start some interesting discussion. I got SMITED for it! Guess who? This person implied it was probably not written by a christian, that it was lefty liberal nonsense, and basically ripped me and it a new one. I'm stunned. Seriously. I thought it was very nicely written, and represents the stated ethics of my christian friends and family.

I guess I'm just naive.  :(

Don't be stunned Trav...it's the flavor of the moment.  I'm sure that somewhere within all the vitriol, it's probably the fault of WWGHA members joining months back.  Either that, or Obama (well, we all know everything is his fault).

I think the ChikFilA fuss has drawn out the screaming tighty righties!
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Airyaman on August 04, 2012, 04:49:59 PM
^Read the thread. Click the links. Educate yourself.

Edit to add: Quesi gave me some in a PM that may or may not be in this thread.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/chickfila.asp
http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201207020001 (You can cheat and use this cross reference the tax document instead of wiki.)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/02/chick-fil-a-anti-gay-group-donations-_n_1644609.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick-fil-A (See : Controversy regarding LGBT issues)

A Christian operated business donating to Christian charities and organizations. And?

They claim these companies are "anti-gay" but guess what? The bible is not gay friendly, and Christians use the bible as their guide book. Sure, some gay people say differently, but they are lying to themselves. The bible is pretty up front with this.

If you want to protest all companies that are not gay friendly, you need to find out which ones are operated by Christians, Muslims, orthodox Jews, or any other related Abrahamic religion. Any people of these religions that are gay friendly are ignoring parts of their religion, so you'd have to determine the viewpoint of every single one.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Garja on August 04, 2012, 05:38:38 PM
I really wish it was like 30 years from now when this goes the way of segregation and people can feel ashamed of themselves for how they have treated their fellow man... more so I wish it wouldn't take that long, but I am less and less optimistic.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Timtheskeptic on August 04, 2012, 05:55:35 PM
A Christian operated business donating to Christian charities and organizations. And?

They claim these companies are "anti-gay" but guess what? The bible is not gay friendly, and Christians use the bible as their guide book. Sure, some gay people say differently, but they are lying to themselves. The bible is pretty up front with this.

If you want to protest all companies that are not gay friendly, you need to find out which ones are operated by Christians, Muslims, orthodox Jews, or any other related Abrahamic religion. Any people of these religions that are gay friendly are ignoring parts of their religion, so you'd have to determine the viewpoint of every single one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgFdldQ0Vq0&feature=share
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 04, 2012, 05:57:58 PM
Airyaman,

I think it'd be simpler to just cease going to the ones that are open about their bigotted beliefs than go your route.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Azdgari on August 04, 2012, 06:17:54 PM
A Christian operated business donating to Christian charities and organizations. And?

And those charities are doing things that a lot of people find to be heinous.  Hence, a boycott.

They claim these companies are "anti-gay" but guess what? The bible is not gay friendly, and Christians use the bible as their guide book. Sure, some gay people say differently, but they are lying to themselves. The bible is pretty up front with this.

Agreed.  Those Christians who are not anti-gay yet promote the Bible as a source of morality are sending some seriously mixed messages.

If you want to protest all companies that are not gay friendly, you need to find out which ones are operated by Christians, Muslims, orthodox Jews, or any other related Abrahamic religion.  Any people of these religions that are gay friendly are ignoring parts of their religion, so you'd have to determine the viewpoint of every single one.

Perhaps.  And if that were the reason why CFA was the subject of a boycott, then you might have a point.  As it is...
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Garja on August 04, 2012, 06:20:02 PM

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/thu-august-2-2012-jessica-biel

First segment has hilarious CFA segment.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Frank on August 04, 2012, 06:50:13 PM
I really wish it was like 30 years from now when this goes the way of segregation and people can feel ashamed of themselves for how they have treated their fellow man... more so I wish it wouldn't take that long, but I am less and less optimistic.

Actually I think America is doing a good job of showing the rest of the world what happens when you allow one group of people to actively persecute another group and then dress it up as free speech. I doubt outside of ignorant third world countries that any other country does this so openly. I'm sure you must be thoroughly embarrassed by the whole episode.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jetson on August 04, 2012, 07:17:21 PM
I really wish it was like 30 years from now when this goes the way of segregation and people can feel ashamed of themselves for how they have treated their fellow man... more so I wish it wouldn't take that long, but I am less and less optimistic.

Actually I think America is doing a good job of showing the rest of the world what happens when you allow one group of people to actively persecute another group and then dress it up as free speech. I doubt outside of ignorant third world countries that any other country does this so openly. I'm sure you must be thoroughly embarrassed by the whole episode.

It's not America Frank, it's humans who are homophobic.  They are everywhere, sadly. 
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Frank on August 04, 2012, 07:46:00 PM
I really wish it was like 30 years from now when this goes the way of segregation and people can feel ashamed of themselves for how they have treated their fellow man... more so I wish it wouldn't take that long, but I am less and less optimistic.

Actually I think America is doing a good job of showing the rest of the world what happens when you allow one group of people to actively persecute another group and then dress it up as free speech. I doubt outside of ignorant third world countries that any other country does this so openly. I'm sure you must be thoroughly embarrassed by the whole episode.

It's not America Frank, it's humans who are homophobic.  They are everywhere, sadly.

I'm sure there are. But they don't spend millions setting up organisations with the sole purpose of harassing and making life difficult for gay people.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 04, 2012, 08:40:04 PM
Frank,

You have evidence that they don't?

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Frank on August 04, 2012, 08:54:34 PM
Frank,

You have evidence that they don't?

-Nam

I do not have any evidence that they do. I do not know of any major fast food chains or any other industry in this or any other european country, announce that they are anti gay and gives millions to other anti gay organisations for the sole purpose of persecuting gay people. If there are then they are keeping very quiet about it. I'm not actually sure that under the human rights charter all european countries are signed up to that such organisations would be legal.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 04, 2012, 09:01:33 PM
Actually I think America is doing a good job of showing the rest of the world what happens when you allow one group of people to actively persecute another group and then dress it up as free speech. I doubt outside of ignorant third world countries that any other country does this so openly. I'm sure you must be thoroughly embarrassed by the whole episode.

I'm thoroughly embarrassed by this ordeal and I don't think in this case I can fault you for pointing it out. Typically I think you are bit hard on us Americans. Almost a little trollish. But I think you are right to be so critical in this situation, people should be embarrassed that half or more of this country is still as bigoted as they were during the civil war.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on August 04, 2012, 09:05:06 PM
This is my kind of christian ... regardless of our differences in belief, she's practicing kindness, which gains her points in my book. :)

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b85/GreyhoundMama/pastorsarahhalverson.jpg)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: screwtape on August 06, 2012, 02:51:48 PM
IOriginal Source: Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02/adam-smith-chick-fil-a-drive-bully_n_1735357.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009)


guy got fired.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/370223/20120803/adam-smith-vante-chic-fil-video.htm

And I just realized I have done business with him.  Small world.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: VOR_voice_of_reason on August 06, 2012, 04:11:44 PM
I have never been to a Chik-fil-A. It is a fast food place, right? I avoid unhealthy activities which includes fast food and religious bigotry. I can avoid both by staying away from this place. I think it's good that business owners wear their colors on their sleeve. It helps me choose where I will spend money. We should encourage all business leaders to profess their prejudices and their bigoted ideals.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Brakeman on August 06, 2012, 06:07:28 PM
Once upon a time there were lots of eateries in the south that openly advertised that they were "Whites Only."  Now, even if it weren't for the laws, societal opinion would strongly castigate such behavior. The same will be true for this bigotry. Someday the grandchildren of the hoards that drove to the chick-fil-a appreciation day will be ashamed of their grandparents.
Time is not on the side of bigotry.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 06, 2012, 06:08:31 PM
Welcome to the forum VOR. I like your perspective!
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: DumpsterFire on August 06, 2012, 09:37:26 PM
Once upon a time there were lots of eateries in the south that openly advertised that they were "Whites Only."  Now, even if it weren't for the laws, societal opinion would strongly castigate such behavior. The same will be true for this bigotry. Someday the grandchildren of the hoards that drove to the chick-fil-a appreciation day will be ashamed of their grandparents.
Time is not on the side of bigotry.

Well said, Brakeman. Imagine how the grandchildren of these people feel:

(http://americanhistory.si.edu/brown/history/6-legacy/images/picketers.jpg)

The sign on the top right is especially telling. Its also kinda disturbing how many of them are smiling.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Hatter23 on August 07, 2012, 07:40:17 AM

If you want to protest all companies that are not gay friendly, you need to find out which ones are operated by Christians, Muslims, orthodox Jews, or any other related Abrahamic religion. Any people of these religions that are gay friendly are ignoring parts of their religion, so you'd have to determine the viewpoint of every single one.

Here's a thought, here's one with an outright admitted direct link. I shall start there. When another comes to light, it shall be added to the list. I don't need to determine the viewpoints of every person, despite your haughty demands, I can just slice the obvious assholes out of my life without much difficulty, when those assholes are gone, perhaps then I will take it to the next level.

Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: nogodsforme on August 07, 2012, 02:53:40 PM
Once upon a time there were lots of eateries in the south that openly advertised that they were "Whites Only."  Now, even if it weren't for the laws, societal opinion would strongly castigate such behavior. The same will be true for this bigotry. Someday the grandchildren of the hoards that drove to the chick-fil-a appreciation day will be ashamed of their grandparents.
Time is not on the side of bigotry.

Well said, Brakeman. Imagine how the grandchildren of these people feel:

(http://americanhistory.si.edu/brown/history/6-legacy/images/picketers.jpg)

The sign on the top right is especially telling. Its also kinda disturbing how many of them are smiling.

I find the young boy's sign the creepiest.  Imagine what the language is like in his home. He has little hope of being a happy camper after the civil rights movement--he will be one of those complaining about "political correctness" when he gets called out for racist hate speech.  What an awful world view to grow up in. :(
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 07, 2012, 03:09:15 PM
It should be noted, especially in the south, the Church used Biblical source material to degrade non-whites.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on August 07, 2012, 03:13:01 PM
Interesting pic.  So fuddies have been this way for a long time.  They would have loved FOX.....
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 07, 2012, 03:41:14 PM
The FOX of then is not the same as today. Rupert Murdoch didn't own FOX 'til the early to mud 1980s. Of course the only right-wing conservative Republican viewpoint of FOX is their news affiliation. If one notes: when Avatar came out FOX NOISE cried foul at it 'til someone told them that FOX was the one who produced the film. In a way: they were bashing themselves, unknowingly.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Hatter23 on August 07, 2012, 03:43:02 PM
Interesting pic.  So fuddies have been this way for a long time.  They would have loved FOX.....

What do mean would have....look at that picture and remember, statisically speaking, if we chose a 30 year old woman in 1962(I'm guessing the picture is from that year) she's about 80. That's only 9 months over the average lifespan, so about a 48% chance of being alive.

So in all likelihood a fair number of them are around....and loving Fox.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 07, 2012, 03:51:05 PM
Or, some have switched to not being what they were. Time can change peoples minds.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: The Gawd on August 07, 2012, 04:46:33 PM
a few of us were discussing this at work today. I know one is a christian, the other lady I dont know but she was defending the chicken dudes freedom of speech then there's me. And I can honestly say the christian did something I havent seen from christians. After she gave me her whole "i believe marriage is between a man and a woman....bible" speech I sincerely asked her how she deals with verses in the bible pertaining to and condoning slavery. She didnt have an answer, then I told her I know she doesnt agree with it (she's black as well), then I said she could use the same reasoning she uses to dismiss the slavery thing in the bible to dismiss her definition of marriage. She was kinda quiet for some moments and then told me I make a valid point. Sensing the small victory I left it at that.

See I still have faith in people (but this faith isnt blind).
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Brakeman on August 07, 2012, 05:31:06 PM
It should be noted, especially in the south, the Church used Biblical source material to degrade non-whites.

-Nam

Yes, very much so. Americans are taught a glossy version of their own history. The Civil was was an outright religious war, with the Northern Baptists, Quakers and Presbyterians on the anti slavery side and the Southern, and Primitive Baptists, Lutherans, and Methodists on the Pro-slavery side. I've forgotten which side the Catholics were on, if they took a side. The war was over differing interpretations of the bible on slavery.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 07, 2012, 07:29:38 PM
Brakeman,

Where there may be truth in that, the South, in some sense, fought for slavery 'cause the North was prosperous as an industrializion and, in many parts, the South depended on the North because of that. Much of the South was rural and dealt mainly in farming, and the slaves were a "commodity" that they felt they couldn't let go of and not be beholding to the North. History does show after the war ended that the South, without slavery, became overly dependant on the North. And much of the South was not for Reconstruction.

This is not to say that religion and slavery as a whole didn't have their roles; also expansion of the West played a part, if the Confederacy won the war, it would've been more likely they may have had control of that region, and the North couldn't allow that. The only people, I feel, who were fighting for religion/slavery were those who owned slaves; everyone else, most likely, were fighting for their homes, and their way of life which they believed (mainly through propaganda) the North wanted to take away from them.

In Southern states today, I feel that still holds true for many.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: mrbiscoop on August 07, 2012, 07:31:41 PM
   America, like most if not all countries, was built on slavery and genocide.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: 12 Monkeys on August 07, 2012, 07:36:25 PM
It should be noted, especially in the south, the Church used Biblical source material to degrade non-whites.

-Nam

Yes, very much so. Americans are taught a glossy version of their own history. The Civil was was an outright religious war, with the Northern Baptists, Quakers and Presbyterians on the anti slavery side and the Southern, and Primitive Baptists, Lutherans, and Methodists on the Pro-slavery side. I've forgotten which side the Catholics were on, if they took a side. The war was over differing interpretations of the bible on slavery.
They were using the distraction of the others fighting between each other to rape and murder children....I hope nobody takes that as a JOKE,because I am dead serious
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 07, 2012, 07:42:09 PM
mrbiscoop,

What country wasn't?

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: mrbiscoop on August 07, 2012, 09:09:07 PM
   America, like most if not all countries, was built on slavery and genocide.
Fixed it.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Hatter23 on August 08, 2012, 12:13:21 PM
Or, some have switched to not being what they were. Time can change peoples minds.

-Nam

age seldomly makes people more liberal..sometimes, but not often.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 08, 2012, 12:17:11 PM
I never suggested otherwise.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: mrbiscoop on August 08, 2012, 12:31:56 PM
"If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."
This quote was falsely attributed to Winston Churchill.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Azdgari on August 08, 2012, 12:58:02 PM
^^ Accuracy of information is anti-conservative.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: nogodsforme on August 08, 2012, 02:00:08 PM
"If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."
This quote was falsely attributed to Winston Churchill.

I heard that quip from a black motivational speaker when I was in high school. Such a self-serving remark to excuse being greedy and not caring about other people. It annoyed me then and still annoys me now. :P
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on August 08, 2012, 02:14:31 PM
"If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."
This quote was falsely attributed to Winston Churchill.

It's been my experience that liberals continue to be liberal. And in fact become more liberal. BUT, and this is an important point, I'm talking about SOCIALLY liberal. I no longer even comprehend what makes a liberal or conservative political/financial/other person. That's changed so much over time that I'm simply overwhelmed with confusion.

But on social issues like equality for all ... my 81 year old mother continues to be a liberal, and she grows in her understanding of more and more rights infringements as my sib and I talk about them. The older I get (I'm in my 50s) the more willing I am to be outspoken about my liberal views. The older I get the more infuriated I get at the right wing "conservatives", and the more willing I am to be radical in my support for social equality. And, quite frankly, in the USA I would say that the current right wing "conservatives" are actually extremely radical. I'd be tempted to call them radical neanderthals, but I feel that does a disservice to our distant ancesters.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Garja on August 08, 2012, 04:38:58 PM
I'd be tempted to call them radical neanderthals, but I feel that does a disservice to our distant ancesters. Relatives

I was nitpicky about your post, but dont take it over-snarky.

In any case, I definitely agree in that my views have gotten increasingly liberal as ive aged.  I have never had a problem with different races, or sexual orientation, and have always believed in a social safety net for those less fortunate, but I do carry the shame of having voted for GW Bush in his reelection (in my defense, John Kerry was a bit of a douche).  Now, admittedly I am VERY liberal.  If I was to be perfectly honest with myself, I am probably a Socialist in most issues (still believe in private ownership generally, and the profit motive, but do not see the free-market as the panacea many on the right like to pretend).  In any case, my move to the left has been in a large part due to the vitriolic nonsense that the far right has been spouting the last few years.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 08, 2012, 04:42:24 PM
I thought that GW Bush and Kerry were douches and voted for Walter Brown. There are other people on most ballots but Repubs and Democrats.

-Nam
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Airyaman on August 08, 2012, 07:25:58 PM

If you want to protest all companies that are not gay friendly, you need to find out which ones are operated by Christians, Muslims, orthodox Jews, or any other related Abrahamic religion. Any people of these religions that are gay friendly are ignoring parts of their religion, so you'd have to determine the viewpoint of every single one.

Here's a thought, here's one with an outright admitted direct link. I shall start there. When another comes to light, it shall be added to the list. I don't need to determine the viewpoints of every person, despite your haughty demands, I can just slice the obvious assholes out of my life without much difficulty, when those assholes are gone, perhaps then I will take it to the next level.

"Obvious assholes" or simply assholes who stand up for what they believe in? How many of us would be so brave under camera scrutiny to say what we truly believe? I'd wager most of the people here (myself included) would say -- in front of a camera or other recorded media -- what we believe would keep us safe. This guy took a risk, he stood up for what he believed. Meanwhile, many of us sit behind keyboards as we sling shit in anonymity.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jetson on August 08, 2012, 07:52:55 PM
This guy took a risk, he stood up for what he believed. Meanwhile, many of us sit behind keyboards as we sling s**t in anonymity.

I don't think he took a risk at all, at least not from his perspective.  Unless he purposely worked with what's-his-face to create the biggest sales day ever, and perpetrated a masterful ad campaign that completely worked in his favor, forever placing Chik-Fil-A on the "weekly must eat at fast food joints" list for thousands and thousands of bigots.

People can "stand up for free speech" all they want, but in this case, they were directly supporting anti-gay bigotry and homophobia.  There is no other way to slice this.  They keep yammering on about how they don't hate the gays, but there are far better ways to show that than giving obscene amounts of money to the jack-ass that actually does hate gays.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Brakeman on August 09, 2012, 06:23:55 AM
This guy took a risk, he stood up for what he believed. Meanwhile, many of us sit behind keyboards as we sling shit in anonymity.

Should we applaud Adolf Eichmann the Nazi for standing up for what he believed? No, because the "belief" he was expressing was hate. Sometimes it was hate cloaked in god and country, but it was always hate. The Chick-fil-a CEO is no different, he hates LG folks because his creed tells him to.

"At least Mahmoud Ahmadinejad stood up for what he believed.."  No, when you remember the discrimination and hate in the belief, the fervency of the believer is no longer an admirable trait.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Hatter23 on August 09, 2012, 06:41:52 AM
"Obvious assholes" or simply assholes who stand up for what they believe in?


If what they believe in makes them assholes, standing up for it makes them obvious.


Conviction isn't meritorius on its own, from the 9-11 perpetrators, the the soldier of the confederacy, to the Nazi party conviction is simply putting thoughts into action. If those thoughts are vile, then the actions are vile.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: The Gawd on August 09, 2012, 08:55:10 AM
I think here what we see is people missing the bigger picture in general.

No one is trying to take that asshole's freedom of speech away, at least I didnt see any evidence of it. It did however spark other people to also use their freedom of expression to either disapprove of his "speech" or agree with his bigotry.

Some people do see "standing up for what you believe in" in itself to have merit, just as they think their "right" to believe whatever they want means that their belief cant be scrutinized and just plain wrong.

Standing up for the wrong things is just as stupid as believing the sky is orange (simply because you can believe whatever you want to by law)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nam on August 09, 2012, 02:28:42 PM
The Gawd.

Those who complain about others taking their freedom of speech away realize, or if they don't should realize, the other side isn't advocating for their speech to be taken away. As you said: they are just voicing their opinion. But the thing is: the other side want themselves to have their freedom of speech but they don't want you to have yours. See, we would protect their right to freedom of speech but they wouldn't protect ours. Good example:

Atheists who attempt to create billboards but are stopped by those who feel they don't or shouldn't have the right to express their freedom of speech.

Another example:

Christians who feel their religious propaganda and scripture should be displayed in public government forums[1] even though the Constitution prohibits such things.

They want their freedoms but not have those who oppose them to have theirs. And, they've had successes in doing just that. Not as frequent as in the past but they still have their successes today. And, even though the opposition has some success it hasn't been as successful as theirs.

-Nam
 1. not speaking of onlineforums
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: 12 Monkeys on August 09, 2012, 06:59:55 PM
This guy took a risk, he stood up for what he believed. Meanwhile, many of us sit behind keyboards as we sling s**t in anonymity.

I don't think he took a risk at all, at least not from his perspective.  Unless he purposely worked with what's-his-face to create the biggest sales day ever, and perpetrated a masterful ad campaign that completely worked in his favor, forever placing Chik-Fil-A on the "weekly must eat at fast food joints" list for thousands and thousands of bigots.

People can "stand up for free speech" all they want, but in this case, they were directly supporting anti-gay bigotry and homophobia.  There is no other way to slice this.  They keep yammering on about how they don't hate the gays, but there are far better ways to show that than giving obscene amounts of money to the jack-ass that actually does hate gays.
IF he stood up and said what many "Christians" believe to be true(mormons too) that people of African heritage are dirty and not allowed in the resturaunt would that be ok? or is it not ok because race is involved?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 13, 2012, 04:25:43 PM
So how do you reward all the bigots for turning up to Chick-fil-A day? You reward them with free food!!!


(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/229196_419658564751100_35573308_n.jpg)


Well okay, I'm being a little misleading. This is really to support a new location, but it's getting sent back. I'm pretty sure this is the first time the frugal in me has lost the war on freebies.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Chronos on August 13, 2012, 08:20:36 PM
Chick-fil-A is anti-gay. My gay friends and family members periodically put out posts on facebook to boycott them, and ever since I first found out about their policies and opinions, I have stopped going there. They can keep their "pro family" company to themselves. I'm pro-family too. I just have a more inclusive definition of family.

I keep telling people that definitely since the time of Citizens United, a company and its leaders just don't have opinions, they have political expressions. Although they certainly did before, now they can give unlimited funds to PACs that support their personal beliefs. Since giving that corporation money is the same as indirectly giving to a particular PAC, everyone should be examining where they spend their dollars. Remember, corporations are people (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2h8ujX6T0A), so when you buy anything, you are also voting.

Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 13, 2012, 08:37:18 PM
^ Chronos that video is EPIC! I stole it for my FB.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Garja on August 13, 2012, 09:11:46 PM
I dont think I am overstating it... I think the Citizens United case is the most destructive thing to this country since the Civil War.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: mrbiscoop on August 13, 2012, 09:16:34 PM
^^^^^ No argument here.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jetson on August 13, 2012, 10:28:46 PM
^^^^^ No argument here.

It's also embarrassing.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Hatter23 on August 14, 2012, 07:58:41 AM
I dont think I am overstating it... I think the Citizens United case is the most destructive thing to this country since the Civil War.

I can think of a few:
McCarthyism
The Native Removal Act and its implementation from 1865 to 1923
The Internment Camps of 1942
Jim Crow
Kelo v. City of New London


but I still think it merits a space in any sane person's top twenty list
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: naemhni on August 14, 2012, 08:01:31 AM
I dont think I am overstating it... I think the Citizens United case is the most destructive thing to this country since the Civil War.

I can think of a few:
McCarthyism
The Native Removal Act and it implementation from 1865 to 1923
The Internment Camps of 1942
Jim Crow
Kelo v. City of New London

Agreed.  And don't forget the infamous Plessy v. Ferguson, either.

Quote
but I still think it merits a space in any sane person's top twenty list

Yep.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Hatter23 on August 14, 2012, 08:26:56 AM

I can think of a few:
McCarthyism
The Native Removal Act and its implementation from 1865 to 1923
The Internment Camps of 1942
Jim Crow
Kelo v. City of New London

Agreed.  And don't forget the infamous Plessy v. Ferguson, either.


I was sweeping that under Jim Crow. But I am very firm about the vast negative implications of Kelo v. City of New London; at any point what you own can be taken from you and handed to a corporation in order to maximize profits.
When the NAACP and Libertarians agree that something is bad, chances are, it is REAL bad.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: naemhni on August 14, 2012, 08:31:02 AM
And don't forget the infamous Plessy v. Ferguson, either.

I was sweeping that under Jim Crow

Oh, yeah, I guess that's right.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Garja on August 14, 2012, 02:33:07 PM
I can think of a few:
McCarthyism
The Native Removal Act and its implementation from 1865 to 1923
The Internment Camps of 1942
Jim Crow
Kelo v. City of New London


but I still think it merits a space in any sane person's top twenty list

All shameful moments in U.S. history to be certain, but as horrid as those things are I dont think any of them have the same ability to subvert American democracy the way Citizens United does.  History will tell as everything plays out over the next few years, but when we give corporations the legal right to give as much money as they damn well please to a candidate or cause we have a serious problem.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: nogodsforme on August 14, 2012, 02:50:42 PM
Plus, it is hard to trace the origin of the money, so Cubans, Saudis, Iranians, Chinese or North Koreans could put up a front company and buy a themselves a candidate. You would think that conservatives would be worried about that. I am.

I would love for a radical commie group or gay rights organization, or someone truly foul like the KKK or the Nazis to donate a bunch of money to Romney and then reveal themselves. But I don't think anyone on the Repub side would care, because it is all about the money. Free speech, first amendment and so forth. :P
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on August 14, 2012, 04:37:07 PM
^ I think they eat loopholes for breakfast.

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Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on September 19, 2012, 12:22:25 PM
I just read the following update on this topic:

Chick-Fil-A Agrees To Cease Funding To Anti-Gay Organizations, Chicago LGBT Group Claims (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/chick-fil-a-anti-gay-organizations-funding-ceased_n_1896580.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009)
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on September 19, 2012, 12:25:39 PM
I just saw that this morning. If true, I'm really glad to see that they've listened to their customers.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on September 19, 2012, 12:56:44 PM
Yea, I think I will wait for the 2013 tax returns to go public before offering them my patronage again. Or I may never go back, IDK, but this is a start. 
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Nick on September 19, 2012, 01:15:40 PM
You can bet it had something to do with a drop in revenue.  I guess after the "good Christians" ate there in mass numbers they must have said, "OK, that's enough".  Seems strange but who knows...stranger things have happened.  Wonder what old Hukelberry on FOX thinks about this?
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Aaron123 on September 19, 2012, 03:56:09 PM
But what about God's judgment?  They went on about "shake[ing] our fist at him", and now they do just that.  I guess god's judgement is less important than money.   :-X
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Betelnut on September 19, 2012, 05:32:48 PM
I hope that's true for many reasons, one of which is that I miss their spicy chicken sandwich.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: jedweber on September 21, 2012, 09:43:31 AM
Uh oh. If this is true, then all the fundies and homophobes who have been stuffing their faces with hot greasy cock these past weeks are going to feel very betrayed! The chain will have managed to piss off both sides!

Kinda serves them right for wading into the issue at all...

Quote
Chick-fil-A's 'cave' stirs new backlash
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/09/20/chick-fil-a-gay-issue/70000764/1#.UFx8Eq6C-So

P.S. According to the article, it seems they're either backpedaling already, or else the gay group jumped the gun with their announcement...


Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Kimberly on September 21, 2012, 10:19:33 AM
Quote
Earlier this week, before the reports of the alleged policy change, Chick-fil-A's WinShape Foundation held a benefit for the Marriage and Family Foundation, which has worked against same-sex marriage.

Sounds like business as usual from where I'm sitting.
Title: Re: God must love Chick-fil-A
Post by: Traveler on September 21, 2012, 02:59:18 PM
...P.S. According to the article, it seems they're either backpedaling already...

Yeah, I got that impression from something I read this morning. :(