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Dead Zone => The Bottomless Pit => Topic started by: joebbowers on June 27, 2012, 10:02:17 PM

Title: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on June 27, 2012, 10:02:17 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/26/betsy-brashear-lured-teen_n_1628441.html

Quote
Oklahoma woman Betsy Brashear, 24, was arrested around midnight last Thursday after allegedly luring a 15-year-old boy into a gym tanning room, taking off most of her clothes and kissing him, according to News on 6.

The worried mother knocked on the door of the room housing the booth. When her son answered, she spotted Brashear, who had been attempting to hide, and pulled her out of the room, according to the Daily Mail.

Gee, thanks Mom.

Queue the role-reversal disagreement, etc.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Barracuda on June 27, 2012, 11:03:52 PM
Why the fuck would you answer the door?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: MadBunny on June 27, 2012, 11:24:36 PM
Poor taste, certainly poor timing and worse judgement.
http://www.ageofconsent.com/oklahoma.htm

AOC in Okahoma is 16.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on June 27, 2012, 11:27:31 PM
Poor taste, certainly poor timing and worse judgement.

I agree. You do mean the mom right?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: MadBunny on June 28, 2012, 01:06:45 AM
Poor taste, certainly poor timing and worse judgement.

I agree. You do mean the mom right?

No, I meant the woman deciding to have sex with a teenager in a public place.  I'm not sure how close to 16 the kids was so it may have been a legal gray area there, but regardless it was poor decision making.

Perhaps even the boy for not setting up a safer meeting place.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on June 28, 2012, 01:42:58 AM
I was joking, I knew what you meant. I hope she gets off with a slap on the wrist, which is frankly more than she deserves. This is a complete non-crime and any tax dollars spent on this are a fucking waste of resources.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on June 28, 2012, 10:11:17 AM
well if i had a child, i most certainly wouldn't want anyone doing that to them and i would be outraged. I'll be with the mother on this.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: screwtape on June 28, 2012, 11:19:29 AM
If I had a 15 yo son, I would encourage him to pork 24 yo women.  They know better what to do and how to avoid getting knocked up than his peers would.  Two 15 yos copulating is trouble.  But the catch 22 is, what kind of 24 yo woman is attracted to a 15 yo?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: naemhni on June 28, 2012, 11:20:35 AM
If I had a 15 yo son, I would encourage him to pork 24 yo women.  They know better what to do and how to avoid getting knocked up than his peers would.  Two 15 yos copulating is trouble.  But the catch 22 is, what kind of 24 yo woman is attracted to a 15 yo?

It happens.  My "first" was 27, and I was 17.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on June 28, 2012, 08:42:05 PM
I think there's several variables that can't be determined by age alone. But in general I've found that I can't date younger guys; it's never worked for me. I met my oldest daughters dad when I was 17 he was 23 or 24 I forget. We were together for 5 years and share the responsibility of raising a child together.

I'd be a hypocrite to tell anyone what is appropriate. But my ex is not the smartest apple in the bunch, nor is he the most mature. At 17 he was exactly the type of guy a teenager would date, if he was 17. You couldn't tell a difference. He was beyond immature, and since I was newly "emancipated"[1] partying and being irresponsible was tons of fun. Until it wasn't. I grew up and he didn't. He's still behaving like a teenager.

My fiance is 2 years older than me, it's nice. We are almost identical in maturity level and life goals. But is it because of his age? IDK, doubt a few years give or take would really change him all that much.

But I can't logically rationalize why a 24 year old woman has any business being with a 15 year old. I have life experience revolting against societies rules, I've always dated older men. But looking back 99.99% of the guys who were more than 2-3 years older than me were attempting to use me for my "innocence" and naivety. Their intentions had nothing to do with being in an amicable relationship, no desire to care about wants needs, or what was good for me.

The problem becomes with the deception. These fellas used their knowledge and life experience to con me in to thinking I was in real relationships. While I don't blame them entirely, and I'm not calling foul play entirely, I think there is a difference from two people saying, "Hey let's get physical." and one person pretending to have a relationship just to get physical.

So, it's only natural that the younger less experienced, less knowledgeable teenager will not be able to rationalize that they are being taken advantage of. Perhaps a 15 year old boy doesn't care, maybe it's cool, IDK never been a boy. But again in hindsight as a 15 year old girl I was used, those men were wrong, and I didn't know what I was doing.

As a mother, I think it's best if older men just stay away from my girls. I would act exactly how this mom in the OP did. I would be a hypocrite, I would not allow someone with that much of an age cap to infiltrate the safety of our family. But the same thing goes for young ravenous boys with raging hormones. But instead of calling the police I'd take my daughter home and attempt to educate her on why it was a bad decision.

Well at least that's my plan. Who knows what will happen until I'm faced with dealing with my teenage daughter. But I just don't see myself allowing her to be taken advantage of , and we all know teenagers don't listen to their parents so it's not like at that point I could help her rationalize things. Cause by then "I just won't get it."I hope to do my job and educate her properly along the way about what is being taken advantage of and what is a two sided relationship.
 1. Generalizing, but it explains it well.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on June 28, 2012, 09:19:13 PM
What kind of 24 yo woman is attracted to a 15 yo?

It happens.  My "first" was 27, and I was 17.

Legen--- wait for it!
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on June 28, 2012, 09:22:44 PM
--dary!
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on June 28, 2012, 09:23:47 PM
I think there is a difference from two people saying, "Hey let's get physical." and one person pretending to have a relationship just to get physical.

Girls use sex to get love, and boys use love to get sex. It's been that way since the beginning of time. It blows my mind that most girls still don't understand this.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on June 28, 2012, 09:38:23 PM
joe

You are you being intentionally insulting or did you just not read what I said? You tell me where I said the guys I mentioned ever loved me, cared about me, or expressed any form of mutual caring? I said as 15 year old I was deceived by older guys. I never said that at 15 I was in any form of relationship that was emotionally two sided.

Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Mr. Blackwell on June 28, 2012, 10:03:32 PM
I became sexually active at the ripe old age of 14. I thought we were going to get married and all that jazz. Ultimately I realized she was psychotic and in the long run it would be a miserable existence. When I was 16 I found myself in a relationship with a 21 year old. I just KNEW she was the one.

She dropped me like a bad habit when I told her I loved her.

One of the things that helped me get through the pain of that rejection was the realization that this older woman was just using me for my...uh...body.

I went pretty much celibate after that. I had no desire to add any notches to my belt.

Things were going pretty good. I was my own man. Came and went as I pleased and was beholden to no one. Then this Barbie Doll told me exactly what I needed to hear in order to get her hands on my giblets. Just as soon as she realized that I wasn't joking about only having sex with the woman I marry she was gone.

Used by an older woman again.

Despite my best efforts I hit double digits before I finally found a woman who was more interested in me than my penis.

Turns out she is several years younger than me. 
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on June 29, 2012, 01:25:27 AM
Are you being intentionally insulting or did you just not read what I said? You tell me where I said the guys I mentioned ever loved me, cared about me, or expressed any form of mutual caring? I said as 15 year old I was deceived by older guys. I never said that at 15 I was in any form of relationship that was emotionally two sided.

Again, girls use sex to get love, and boys use love to get sex. Boys dangle love out there like a carrot to get you into bed. It's often a ruse but it usually works. I didn't say they loved you, but you probably thought they would right? So you opened your legs to them, and that's what they really wanted.

This does not make men evil, this is simple a fundamental misunderstanding that women have of men. You assume we want the same things you do. Luckily despite hundreds of thousands of years of evidence, women still haven't seemed to figure this out. Otherwise, it wouldn't work anymore.


Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Quesi on June 29, 2012, 05:42:43 AM
@Kimberly-

Have you read Tina Fey's Prayer for my Daughter? 


First, Lord: No tattoos. May neither Chinese symbol for truth nor Winnie-the-Pooh holding the FSU logo stain her tender haunches.
 
May she be Beautiful but not Damaged, for it’s the Damage that draws the creepy soccer coach’s eye, not the the Beauty.
 
When the Crystal Meth is offered,
 
May she remember the parents who cut her grapes in half
 
And stick with Beer.
 
Guide her, protect her
 
When crossing the street, stepping onto boats, swimming in the ocean, swimming in pools, walking near pools, standing on the nearby subway platform, crossing 86th Street, stepping off of boats, using mall restrooms, getting on and off escalators, driving on country roads while arguing, leaning on large windows, walking in parking lots, riding Ferris wheels, roller-coasters, log flumes, or anything called “Hell Drop,” “Tower of Torture,” or “The Death Spiral Rock N’ Zero G Roll featuring Aerosmith,” and standing on any kind of balcony ever, anywhere, at any age.
 
Lead her away from Acting but not all the way to Finance.
 
Something where she can make her own hours but still feel intellectually fulfilled and get outside sometimes
 
And not have to wear high heels.
 
What would that be, Lord? Architecture? Midwifery? Golf course design? I’m asking You because if I knew, I’d be doing it, Youdammit.
 
May she play the Drums to the fiery rhythm of her Own Heart with the sinewy strength of her Own Arms, so she need Not Lie With Drummers.
 
Grant her a Rough Patch from twelve to seventeen.
 
Let her draw horses and be interested in Barbies for much too long,
 
For Childhood is short — a Tiger Flower blooming
 
Magenta for one day –
 
And Adulthood is long and Dry-Humping in Cars will wait.
 
O Lord, break the Internet forever,
 
That she may be spared the misspelled invective of her peers
 
And the online marketing campaign for Rape Hostel V: Girls Just Wanna Get Stabbed.
 
And when she one day turns on me and calls me a Bitch in front of Hollister,
 
Give me the strength, Lord, to yank her directly into a cab in front of her friends,
 
For I will not have that Shit. I will not have it.
 
And should she choose to be a Mother one day, be my eyes, Lord,
 
That I may see her, lying on a blanket on the floor at 4:50 a.m., all-at-once exhausted, bored, and in love with the little creature whose poop is leaking up its back.
 
“My mother did this for me once,” she will realize as she cleans feces off her baby’s neck.
 
“My mother did this for me.” And the delayed gratitude will wash over her as it does each generation and she will make a Mental note to call me. And she will forget.
 
But I’ll know, because I peeped it with Your God eyes.
 
Amen.

Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on June 29, 2012, 08:04:47 AM
Are you being intentionally insulting or did you just not read what I said? You tell me where I said the guys I mentioned ever loved me, cared about me, or expressed any form of mutual caring? I said as 15 year old I was deceived by older guys. I never said that at 15 I was in any form of relationship that was emotionally two sided.

Again, girls use sex to get love, and boys use love to get sex. Boys dangle love out there like a carrot to get you into bed. It's often a ruse but it usually works. I didn't say they loved you, but you probably thought they would right? So you opened your legs to them, and that's what they really wanted.

This does not make men evil, this is simple a fundamental misunderstanding that women have of men. You assume we want the same things you do. Luckily despite hundreds of thousands of years of evidence, women still haven't seemed to figure this out. Otherwise, it wouldn't work anymore.

Your tone and verbiage is inappropriate. I never said I gave in to their BS and had sex with them. Please try speaking to me more respectfully. And your over simplification of the male/female dynamics is rather disgusting. Maybe there are plenty of uncivilized men like yourself out there who aren't capable of offering anything more than sex but to say none of them can is ignorant.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on June 29, 2012, 08:10:58 AM
@Kimberly-

Have you read Tina Fey's Prayer for my Daughter? 

No, that was a first. Thank you.

That sums it up rather accurately. I don't live in a fantasy land where I think I can protect her from all evils. But damn it if I won't try.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Traveler on June 29, 2012, 09:07:44 AM
Your tone and verbiage is inappropriate. I never said I gave in to their BS and had sex with them. Please try speaking to me more respectfully. And your over simplification of the male/female dynamics is rather disgusting. Maybe there are plenty of uncivilized men like yourself out there who aren't capable of offering anything more than sex but to say none of them can is ignorant.

Brava! I'd +1 you, but I have to wait 2 hours.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on June 29, 2012, 09:49:25 AM
<snip>

joebbowers, this may surprise you, but not everyone is exactly like you think they are. In fact, I'm willing to bet nobody is exactly like you think they are... except you. Don't project your insecurities, flaws and mental illnesses (if you claim that homosexuality an illness, then I can damn well extend that to your sexual orientation as well) onto the rest of us.

I've never had sex, in spite of several opportunities to do so. Sex to me is just another way to prove to someone that you love them, akin to a gift or a date. It's supposed to make the other person feel good.
You, however, seem to be hormonally stuck at puberty and evolutionary stuck at ape, so you still think sex is for reproduction and pleasure. Grow up.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on June 29, 2012, 10:12:34 AM
Meh, take it or leave it, it's the truth.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on June 29, 2012, 10:14:11 AM
You really are pathetic and dishonest. I just told you that it's not true and gave my personal example. I'm sure other members have similar opinions to my own. Yet you can't admit that you're wrong. That's just sad.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: jaimehlers on June 29, 2012, 10:31:20 AM
To be blunt, good for the mom.  I have never thought much of the idea that it's somehow an achievement for an adolescent to have sex, and (related to the subsequent discussion) I find the idea that it's "okay" for a guy to use whatever means he feels necessary in order to "score" to be somewhere between contemptible and detestable.

I don't really care if two consenting partners want to have sex with each other.  I do care when someone is so focused on (or perhaps obsessed with) having sex that they're willing to pull what amounts to a scam on another person in order to get it.  That's not that far shy of rape, in my opinion, and even leaving that aside, it's pretty pathetic when someone feels they have to pull a scam to get something to begin with.  Perhaps I'm a bit old-fashioned, but I'm reminded of a saying I heard once; an honest businessman has little to fear from a recession.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on June 29, 2012, 10:37:49 AM
Meh, take it or leave it, it's the truth.

No, the truth is you're missing out on the other 23 hours of the day. Assuming you spend 1hr engaging in sexual activity, have a partner, and have sex every day. Otherwise you're prob limiting your life experience with the opposite sex even more so. It's your loss dude.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on June 29, 2012, 10:39:33 AM
I don't really care if two consenting partners want to have sex with each other.  I do care when someone is so focused on (or perhaps obsessed with) having sex that they're willing to pull what amounts to a scam on another person in order to get it.  That's not that far shy of rape, in my opinion, and even leaving that aside, it's pretty pathetic when someone feels they have to pull a scam to get something to begin with.  Perhaps I'm a bit old-fashioned, but I'm reminded of a saying I heard once; an honest businessman has little to fear from a recession.

QFT. Thank you for writing it more eloquently than I did.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Zankuu on June 29, 2012, 10:47:27 AM
So let me get this straight, a mother and her child visit a fitness center where her son is lured away to have sex acts performed on him while the mother is still close by? That 24 year old woman is a fucking predator. I can't imagine trying to coax a little girl away from her family so I can have my way with her. That's unimaginably creepy.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: nogodsforme on June 29, 2012, 03:18:18 PM
My daughter is a very young and immature 15. Anybody ten years her senior, male or female , who tries to pull any sh!t like that on her will have my size 12's up their a$$ so far they will have a footprint on their tongue. Police may be needed-- to pry my hands from around their throat.

A parent's primary duty is to protect their kids. I wish my parents had protected me.

And, as for you joebbowers, would you still think it was "legendary awesome" if that woman managed to talk that boy into some unprotected sexual act[1] that left him feeling ashamed, embarrassed, worried about causing a pregnancy, at risk of a disease, and afraid to tell anyone about it? Are bragging rights really that important?

Because the main reason older people prey sexually on younger people is to get away with sh!t that most people their own age are already hip to. Same reason sex tourists go to third world countries--to prey on young and unprotected kids.
 1. a young male student said that older women seek him out at parties because he will do it "raw dog"
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on June 29, 2012, 04:42:02 PM
What, nogodsforme, you don't want some dude getting his legendary awesomeness kungfu panda cool dude award for getting it on with your daughter?

Seriously, though. When you said, "A parent's primary duty is to protect their kids. I wish my parents had protected me." I thought you were speaking from my heart!

My daughters will not be allowed the same freedoms I was at 15. My mom let me get away with far too much!
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Seppuku on June 29, 2012, 05:05:28 PM
You really are pathetic and dishonest. I just told you that it's not true and gave my personal example. I'm sure other members have similar opinions to my own. Yet you can't admit that you're wrong. That's just sad.

Yes.

Joe's claim:

Quote
and boys use love to get sex.

I say fuck that shit. This may be true for a number of dishonest males out there, but what about males who actively seek companionship? It's not like it's free sex for life, generally it'd be easier with a one night stand, find a horny girl at a night club, bring her back to your place and 'bang her' as people phrase it. But one man's psychology does not apply to all men.

But what about me? The end goal for me has always been companionship and I think it's great and it's what'll make me happy. If sex is your goal in a relationship, then it is a shallow relationship, but if it's what the 2 of you want, you're 2 consenting adults, so do what makes the two of you happy. Different people are different, but it seems by your world view, when it comes to sex and relationships, there's no such thing as individual differences when it comes to the psychology of it.

But this thread just reminds me of (sorry for video quality):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3CgRH8RlJs

If I found that one of my school teachers, no matter how 'hawt' she is took advantage of me, I would be angry about it. Heck, because my childhood and teenage years is a part of a period where I am developing emotionally and psychologically, the fact somebody would take advantage of me in that development process would anger me and no only that, but there exists the possibility that it'd harm some part of my developmental process, particular as I am coming into puberty trying to understand these feelings I would be having. For any age of consent discussion to my mind the cut off point would be based on when this period of development ends. Yes, such an experience has the possibility of psychologically scarring somebody. The woman who sexually assaults a kid could be the most drop dead gorgeous woman in the world, but that doesn't mean that what she did was right or even harmless.

If Brad Pitt fucked a 15 year old girl, I am sure there's a wave of girls out there who cheer her one, "OMG Brad Pitt???" but we'd not look to greatly on Brad Pitt for taking advantage of a young girl and I am sure the girl's father would be waiting to knock his teeth out too.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on June 29, 2012, 05:16:52 PM
Nice post Seppuku. I doubt Joe will give it much thought, but I'm glad you shared it.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: nogodsforme on June 29, 2012, 05:47:28 PM
I have calmed down now and my size 12's are back on the floor.  &)

I just lost it thinking about my growing baby girl (who understands bisexuality, loves Rent and adores Glee, but still sleeps with a stuffed bear and likes to do her Barbies' hair) trying to negotiate her way around some smooth talking 25 year old creepazoid man or woman. Who may be filming the whole episode on their phone to post on their facebook page.  :P

Legendary awesomeness, indeed. Sex is a great thing, but not when someone is tricked, coerced, lied to and manipulated into doing something for another person's entertainment. Who wants their first sexual experience to be someone else's throwaway thrill?

Emotional maturity and the ability to make responsible decisions that could affect you the rest of your life don't just magically appear at age 16 or 18. That's why "legal age of consent" is crap.  Of course a 14, 15, 16 year old thinks attracting the attention of a 20-something is cool. And hormonal fluctuations are a bad basis for making good choices at any age. We are atheists, the rational people, remember?

Our kids only get one shot at life, and we can't throw them out into the world and think that supernatural forces will save them from AIDS, herpes, pregnancy or exploitation. That is why young people have to be watched, guided, advised and protected by older people who care about their well-being.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Zankuu on June 29, 2012, 06:05:20 PM
But what about me? The end goal for me has always been companionship and I think it's great and it's what'll make me happy. If sex is your goal in a relationship, then it is a shallow relationship, but if it's what the 2 of you want, you're 2 consenting adults, so do what makes the two of you happy. Different people are different, but it seems by your world view, when it comes to sex and relationships, there's no such thing as individual differences when it comes to the psychology of it.

My thoughts on sexual partners are in line with yours, Sep. Now, casual one night stands do have their appeal; it can be an intense and exciting experience and there's nothing wrong with two consenting adults safely releasing their sexual frustration. *I'd also like to add that I've never tricked a woman into bed with me under the false pretense of "love". But as for myself, I much prefer monogamous relationships. Learning what my partner enjoys in bed, building trust, connecting with them intellectually- these are the things I enjoy the most and I find them much more satisfying than a one nighter.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on June 29, 2012, 06:46:28 PM
I don't really care if two consenting partners want to have sex with each other.  I do care when someone is so focused on (or perhaps obsessed with) having sex that they're willing to pull what amounts to a scam on another person in order to get it.  That's not that far shy of rape, in my opinion, and even leaving that aside, it's pretty pathetic when someone feels they have to pull a scam to get something to begin with.  Perhaps I'm a bit old-fashioned, but I'm reminded of a saying I heard once; an honest businessman has little to fear from a recession.

I'm with you on that! I find it despicable to do that to someone.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on June 29, 2012, 06:51:58 PM
My daughter is a very young and immature 15. Anybody ten years her senior, male or female , who tries to pull any sh!t like that on her will have my size 12's up their a$$ so far they will have a footprint on their tongue. Police may be needed-- to pry my hands from around their throat.

If i had a fifteen year old, i would be right their with ya! They would need a jaw of life to seperate me and the SOB.

Quote
And, as for you joebbowers, would you still think it was "legendary awesome" if that woman managed to talk that boy into some unprotected sexual act[1] that left him feeling ashamed, embarrassed, worried about causing a pregnancy, at risk of a disease, and afraid to tell anyone about it? Are bragging rights really that important?
 1. a young male student said that older women seek him out at parties because he will do it "raw dog"

Yeah, calling it the legendary awesomeness? Ugh! What would be an legendary awesomeness would be nogodsforme kicking some SOB who tries that on her kids!

Quote
the main reason older people prey sexually on younger people is to get away with sh!t that most people their own age are already hip to. Same reason sex tourists go to third world countries--to prey on young and unprotected kids.

yeah, it's absolutely disgusting.

There's nothing wonderful or awesome about taking advantage of young people. I have not been in a relationship for so long and even i would never do that to any young teens or children!
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on June 29, 2012, 06:56:08 PM
Joe's claim:

Quote
and boys use love to get sex.

I say fuck that shit. This may be true for a number of dishonest males out there, but what about males who actively seek companionship?

I concur. What i want is love, companionship, and i believe we should always treat each other with honesty, care, respect, love, and never hurt each other in anyone nor take advantage of each other. Not only that, people should teach boys to respect girls (Or boys if they're gay or bi) and vice versa.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: nogodsforme on June 29, 2012, 07:34:08 PM
I wonder if anyone would think it was cool if Ted Haggard lured a 15 year old boy into a public bathroom for some legendary awesomeness. Or if Ann Coulter was found having sex with a young teen girl. Still all good? 

This is not about straight vs gay. It is about adults using kids. At that young age, kids might not be sure about their sexuality and should be working this out with other teens of their own maturity level.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on June 29, 2012, 07:37:57 PM
This is not about straight vs gay. It is about adults using kids.
I agree.

Quote
At that young age, kids might not be sure about their sexuality and should be working this out with other teens of their own maturity level.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on June 29, 2012, 09:55:00 PM
I think I am very misunderstood around here. I point out facts and make observations about human behavior without making any moral judgements, and people assume that I am endorsing said behavior. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's true.

I never claimed that men were not capable of love. I am pointing out that boys will often say things like "If you love me, you'll do it." or "Don't you love me? I want you to prove it." or "I love you so much, I want to show you." Do you disagree that boys do that?

Not all boys, obviously, but most have said or will say something like that at some point in their life to get a woman into bed. The boy may actually believe what he's saying as he says it, but really it's his procreation instinct at the wheel. That is an example of using love to get sex.

Afterwards, he may lose interest in her and not really even know why, because his animal instinct has relinquished control and his logical brain is back thinking "dafuq just happened?" Or he may stay in the relationship because he knows he can continue having sex with her. Love certainly plays a part in this, but I think you're underestimating the importance of sex to men.

How long would the average man date a women who didn't "put out"? Two weeks? A month? Six months? The point is, not very long. This is assuming the man is not a virgin, of course. Virgins might wait a much longer time because they don't know what they're missing out on.

How many men would stay with their partners if they suddenly decided to stop having sex with them? And for how long? If it were your wife, you may have developed such a strong bond that you don't want to leave her, but can you honestly say it wouldn't put a serious strain on the relationship? What if she was just your girlfriend? Would you stay in the relationship, get married, knowing you will never have sex again?

Of course, I forget who I'm talking to. You're saints. Paragons of virtue and chivalry. You would never abandon your true love over something so trivial as carnal pleasure. But that is confirmation bias, and doesn't prove it wrong regarding most men in general. It only means there are exceptions. Think about your friends, not just your Good Guy Greg best friend, but all of your male friends. Think about the jerks you know that aren't your friends and imagine what those guys were like as teenagers. Do you honestly believe that not just a few, but the majority of them, would stay in a sexless relationship?

Admittedly that's an extreme example, but plenty of relationships crumble and fall apart from a reduced frequency of sex, let alone a permanent embargo. I think it shows that sex for most men is more powerful than love.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on June 29, 2012, 11:40:30 PM
That 24 year old woman is a fucking predator.

If they were both older, she'd be called a cougar. There's a reason they use that word.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Zankuu on June 29, 2012, 11:48:01 PM
 
I never claimed that men were not capable of love.

I don’t believe anyone attributed that claim to you. Unless I’m wrong, please cite where. Otherwise it looks like you’re preparing to stuff a strawman.

How long would the average man date a women who didn't "put out"? Two weeks? A month? Six months? The point is, not very long.

We're getting off topic, joe. Your OP was about a 24 year old woman preying on an underage boy with his mother in a public setting. No one is suggesting sex isn’t [usually] vital, or healthy, or even necessary for a relationship to last. Underage sex in a gym isn’t related to this though. I've been pro-joe on most of your points in the pedophile thread, because I understand that attraction is biological. But let me ask you a question...

*Cue your prophesied role reversal.*

If you were in the gym and an attractive 15 year old walked in with her mother, would you think it’s okay to lure the girl away from her mother, seduce her into the tanning room, and have sex with her?

From reading your posts in this thread one could surmise that you condone and would perhaps engage in this behavior yourself, since you’ve said the outcome could have potentially been “legendary” and you condemn the mother for having "bad judgment" because she was trying to protect her son. And if that’s correct, then the members do understand you, and that’s why you’ve received somewhat of a backlash in this thread. If I had a 15 year old daughter living under my roof and another man was going to make an attempt to put distance between me and her in a public place so he could perform sex acts on her, then that person is indeed a very dangerous, predatory individual.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: MadBunny on June 30, 2012, 12:11:33 AM
That 24 year old woman is a fucking predator.

If they were both older, she'd be called a cougar. There's a reason they use that word.

If he was one year older it would have been legal, or at least it would have fallen into the gray area between AOC and being a minor.  Notwithstanding the whole public sex part.  That's obviously illegal, and a good way to lose your gym membership. [1]
I'm not sure if Oklahoma has a 'age difference' portion in their AOC laws or not, I didn't check.
 1. Though... if this is the kind of clientele they have, they may see a spike in new applications.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: jaimehlers on June 30, 2012, 06:46:51 AM
Actually, I'm quite well aware that the male human biological imperative is to inseminate as widely as possible.  The problem is that this imperative leads to a lot of social behavior which is anything but ideal, such as rape - that's a way to "inseminate as widely as possible", too.  Or how about those nomadic tribes which would every so often come roaring out of the wilderness and rampage amongst civilization?  A significant part of that was because of this same imperative.  Or, for that matter, the way soldiers acted during wartime, especially during a sack.  There's a reason we tend to hear sayings like "rape and pillage", and why we use terms like "raping the countryside".

The fact that men are biologically programmed to seek sex explains that behavior, but it does not justify it.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Quesi on June 30, 2012, 06:59:41 AM
Here is the thing Joe.  When you talk about male/female sexual relations, you always seem to imply that the girl/woman is the “recipient” of sex, while the boy/man is the one who is pursuing it.  And in this “role reversal” example, the boy is the recipient.

I remember my first sexual relationship when I was 17 with a 17 year old boy.  I was ready.  We’d been dating a while.  I was a virgin, and he was not.  We talked about it extensively.  Ultimately, I made the decisions, the plans, the time, the place, the protection, (short term immediately, long term birth control plans afterwards) and although he was “experienced” I was as much a proactive participant in the sexual relationship as I was in the emotional relationship.  I had had boyfriends before, but I was not ready until him.  He was the right one.  And it was the right time.  He was my first love.  And until our relationship dwindled (after I went away to college a year and a half later) we shared many emotional, intellectual and sexual adventures.  In the innocence and arrogance of our youth, we genuinely believed that we had in fact “invented” many of the sexual activities in which we engaged. 

I cannot imagine ever being this girl who is pursued and manipulated and lied to by a sex hungry boy/man.  And I am so glad that I never was.   

When I look at my daughter, and imagine a predator seeking her out as a sexual object, I have the same emotional reactions as nogodsforme does when she thinks about her daughter.  I hope that my daughter comes into her own sexuality on HER TERMS.  When she is ready.  Physically, emotionally, and intellectually.  I want her to be a subject, not an object, in her journey to becoming a sexual being.  A partner.  And if I were mother to a boy, I would want the same thing for him. 
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: jaimehlers on June 30, 2012, 08:06:36 AM
That 24 year old woman is a fucking predator.

If they were both older, she'd be called a cougar. There's a reason they use that word.
The difference is that they're both legally of age and (presumably) both mature.  But even if they weren't both mature, the fact is that they're of age to make their own choices.  A fifteen-year old boy (or girl) isn't, really.

I don't really care if an older woman wants to have sex with a younger man.  Emphasis on "woman" and "man".
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Frank on June 30, 2012, 08:42:03 PM
For those of you who appear to be outraged by Joeblows posts.

For those who have midteen children how do you know they're not already sexually active? Because there's a decent chance that they are.

How many of you think they are but would rather not have them confirm it since it might change how you see them?

How many of you know they sexually active and have discussed it with them? Contraception, STD,s etc.

How many of you would never dream of having such a discussion whether they're sexually active or not?

How many of you have broached the subject only to be told to mind your own business?

I see a lot of "I hope they'll be this. I hope they'll do that" Well hoping something will be so usually isn't enough. Teenagers need information not wishful thinking. Threats of violence against evil despoilers doesn't cut it either even if it makes you feel better.

Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on June 30, 2012, 09:04:14 PM
You musta missed this:

Well at least that's my plan. Who knows what will happen until I'm faced with dealing with my teenage daughter. But I just don't see myself allowing her to be taken advantage of , and we all know teenagers don't listen to their parents so it's not like at that point I could help her rationalize things. Cause by then "I just won't get it."I hope to do my job and educate her properly along the way about what is being taken advantage of and what is a two sided relationship.

Pretty sure the other parents expressed the same general ideas.

For those of you who appear to be outraged by Joeblows posts.

His post only become outrageous when he chooses to become inappropriate and use words to intentionally insult someone. But it doesn't surprise me that you would take the stance that it's us against him, since you seem to enjoy treating others with the same amount of disrespect Joe does.

For those who have midteen children how do you know they're not already sexually active? Because there's a decent chance that they are.

Mine is not that old yet, but if she were it would not surprise me if she were anything from curious to experimenting.

How many of you think they are but would rather not have them confirm it since it might change how you see them?

What change would be worse? Seeing them as a sexual active teenager or deceitful teenager who doesn't respect their parents enough to be open and honest with them?

How many of you know they sexually active and have discussed it with them? Contraception, STD,s etc.

Again obsolete question for me. But my daughters will be given access to birth control and condoms at puberty. Even if it embarrasses them unneededly, better to equip them then be a grandmother raising her own grandchildren.

How many of you would never dream of having such a discussion whether they're sexually active or not?

Oh there will be LOTS of discussion.

How many of you have broached the subject only to be told to mind your own business?

NA; but even if I were my postion won't change. It's not my job to back down to a hormonal teenager just because they bark loudly.

I see a lot of "I hope they'll be this. I hope they'll do that" Well hoping something will be so usually isn't enough. Teenagers need information not wishful thinking. Threats of violence against evil despoilers doesn't cut it either even if it makes you feel better.

We can equip our children with the best information and tools modern technology and science will allow. We can compensate for the inadequacy of our school's sex ed programs. We can win mother/father of the year and maybe even a noble prize for equipping our kids for sex. But at the end of the day it's their decision, their lives, and either they will take our help, guidance, advice, or they won't. So all we can do as parents is our best and hope they turn out alright.[1]
 1. Note step one is where we equip them with tools and information. Step two is where the hope comes in play.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: rickymooston on June 30, 2012, 09:24:53 PM
I agree with the mom. I don't think a girl like this is going to teach a 15 year old about relationships with normal women. Who knows what diseases the woman has. I mean, she sounds like she has no impulse control. Lots of 20 year olds in a gym to have quick sex with.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Frank on June 30, 2012, 10:23:12 PM

His post only become outrageous when he chooses to become inappropriate and use words to intentionally insult someone. But it doesn't surprise me that you would take the stance that it's us against him, since you seem to enjoy treating others with the same amount of disrespect Joe does.


Not really. I just like square pegs in round holes. Like Joe. I've never been a fitter inner myself and most of the time my opinions tend to go against the main stream. Inappropriate language, insults? Who cares. He has something to say and he says it. I may or may not agree with it but it's a point of view and he's entitled to it. Try growing a thicker skin. Sticks and stones etc etc. Or do you think everyone you meet online is going to be nice?

As for disrespect, c'mon. Try posting here as a theist and see how much respect you get. The whole point of the site is to give religion and the religious no respect at all because they have been getting to much undeserved respect for the last umpteen thousand years.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Frank on June 30, 2012, 10:27:57 PM
I agree with the mom. I don't think a girl like this is going to teach a 15 year old about relationships with normal women. Who knows what diseases the woman has. I mean, she sounds like she has no impulse control. Lots of 20 year olds in a gym to have quick sex with.

Normal women? What are they? Is there such a thing as a normal anyone?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on June 30, 2012, 11:17:13 PM
*Cue your prophesied role reversal.*

If you were in the gym and an attractive 15 year old walked in with her mother, would you think it’s okay to lure the girl away from her mother, seduce her into the tanning room, and have sex with her?

The problem with reversing the situation is that now it's a completely different situation. Women are taught to think of themselves as victims, and men as predators. Men are lauded for their sexual conquests, women are shamed. Pop culture is loaded with older women seducing young men and it's celebrated as a rite of passage. A slice of American Pie, anyone?

If it were my daughter, I wouldn't even want her to know she has a vagina into well into her twenties. If I saw my son going into the room with a hot 24 year old, I'd pretend I didn't see anything. I wouldn't go out of my way to put him in that situation, but if he found himself there and that's what he wanted to do, I wouldn't stop him. Is that a double standard? I don't think so. Men and women are different, so why should the same standards apply?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Zankuu on July 01, 2012, 04:45:40 AM
I appreciate the reply, but it didn't answer my question.

If I understand correctly, you would not approach and solicit sex to a teenager accompanied by her mother in a public setting...?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on July 01, 2012, 05:24:40 AM
Only of I could do 'em both! Wouldn't want the mom to feel left out.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 01, 2012, 06:00:29 AM
Only of I could do 'em both! Wouldn't want the mom to feel left out.

Trust me; nobody would feel left out if you didn't have sex with them. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 01, 2012, 08:29:41 AM
Joe, not only did you not answer the question, you decided that you would rather have both of them join you. I'm sorry, i'm with One Above All. Unless i'm wrong, you look as if if you had a daughter, you would turn deaf ears to what happens if someone lured her away from you. I'm sorry, but i would be arrested for breaking every bones of the SOB who tries that.


Quote
Is that a double standard? I don't think so. Men and women are different, so why should the same standards apply?

i'm not sure what to make of this. Men and women maybe a bit different, but the standards still stand.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 01, 2012, 11:38:16 AM
I've never had sex, in spite of several opportunities to do so.

This is far from the norm, but you are free to do as you wish.

Quote
Sex to me is just another way to prove to someone that you love them, akin to a gift or a date. It's supposed to make the other person feel good.

You try to give sex a more eloquent and sophisticated meaning, immediately after you stated you've never had it. Are you waiting for that perfect, special moment?

Quote
You, however, seem to be hormonally stuck at puberty and evolutionary stuck at ape, so you still think sex is for reproduction and pleasure. Grow up.

If your cock ever got hard without thinking only of the recipient's well-being, you were also evolutionarily stuck at ape. If this has never happened to you, be happy. You are special. Sexual urges add inconvenient distractions to much of a man's life, whether he be heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual or Joe Bowers.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 01, 2012, 11:50:23 AM
You really are pathetic and dishonest.

I wouldn't classify him as "dishonest". This dude let us practically enter his mind back in that paedophile thread. That's like Ray Comfort saying that if you ever stole something, you are a thief.

Quote
I just told you that it's not true and gave my personal example. I'm sure other members have similar opinions to my own.

Only you and the backward fucking freaks.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 01, 2012, 11:55:17 AM
This is far from the norm, but you are free to do as you wish.

Is there a point to this, or did you just feel like pointing out the obvious?

You try to give sex a more eloquent and sophisticated meaning, immediately after you stated you've never had it. Are you waiting for that perfect, special moment?

The moment is irrelevant; it's the person I'm waiting for.

If your cock ever got hard without thinking only of the recipient's well-being, you were also evolutionarily stuck at ape. If this has never happened to you, be happy. You are special. Sexual urges add inconvenient distractions to much of a man's life, whether he be heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual or Joe Bowers.

Clearly you didn't understand the point of what you replied to. Read it again. If you still don't get it, I'll clarify it for you.

I wouldn't classify him as "dishonest". This dude let us practically enter his mind back in that paedophile thread. That's like Ray Comfort saying that if you ever stole something, you are a thief.

He made a claim. I disproved it with my personal experience. He made the same claim again as if there was no contradicting evidence. That's dishonest. He's also pathetic because he actually believes he's something special; as if anyone with a couple of neurons would feel "left out" or whatever from the absence of such a child.

Only you and the backward fucking freaks.

You say that like it's a bad thing. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that being different isn't always bad.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: HAL on July 01, 2012, 12:02:21 PM
The moment is irrelevant; it's the person I'm waiting for.

How quaint.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 01, 2012, 12:12:55 PM
This is far from the norm, but you are free to do as you wish.

Is there a point to this, or did you just feel like pointing out the obvious?

To me, it seemed like Joe was making generalizations that are backed up by the majority of the population. Of course he knows there are exceptions.


You try to give sex a more eloquent and sophisticated meaning, immediately after you stated you've never had it. Are you waiting for that perfect, special moment?

The moment is irrelevant; it's the person I'm waiting for.

Thank you for answering. I believe you.

Quote
Clearly you didn't understand the point of what you replied to. Read it again. If you still don't get it, I'll clarify it for you.

If you could clarify, that would be great.

Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 01, 2012, 12:18:44 PM
To me, it seemed like Joe was making generalizations that are backed up by the majority of the population. Of course he knows there are exceptions.

To me, it seemed like joebbowers was making blanket statements based on the false-consensus effect. Based on his personality, I feel confident in my view.

If you could clarify, that would be great.

Arousal is involuntary, as are emotions. The thing (one of them anyway) that separates us from other great apes is that we choose not to listen to emotions. Just because your dick is hard doesn't mean you have to stick it somewhere and hump until it's not hard anymore. Teenagers (whether due to hormonal changes or social conditioning) seem to disagree with that, as do apes. Apes (and living beings in general) live and survive with the express purpose of continuing their species. Now do you get my comparison?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 01, 2012, 12:43:17 PM
Arousal is involuntary, as are emotions.

But you see, I place arousal morally equal with hunger. I do not look down upon either. Both are generally accepted with today's moral understanding.

Quote
The thing (one of them anyway) that separates us from other great apes is that we choose not to listen to emotions.

I agree, but the expectation to choose not to listen doesn't apply across the board.

Most of us agree that if you desire to rape, don't follow that urge or we will punish you.

If you desire sexual relations with 5-year-olds, don't follow that urge, even with the child's consent, or we will punish you.

Quote
Just because your dick is hard doesn't mean you have to stick it somewhere and hump until it's not hard anymore.

But it would be good for you to do so, as long as you aren't violating someone's rights in the process.

Quote
Teenagers (whether due to hormonal changes or social conditioning) seem to disagree with that, as do apes. Apes (and living beings in general) live and survive with the express purpose of continuing their species. Now do you get my comparison?

I get your comparison, but I agree more with Joe and not you(in this thread).

Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 01, 2012, 12:52:07 PM
But it would be good for you to do so, as long as you aren't violating someone's rights in the process.

How is emotional immaturity good?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Gnu Ordure on July 01, 2012, 12:57:09 PM
The moment is irrelevant; it's the person I'm waiting for.

How quaint.
Perhaps so, but I don't think OOA deserved to be called a "backwards fucking freak" for having this attitude.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Seppuku on July 01, 2012, 01:11:26 PM
Quote from: lotanddaughters
Only you and the backward fucking freaks.

Erm...thanks?

Quote from: OneAboveAll
To me, it seemed like joebbowers was making blanket statements based on the false-consensus effect. Based on his personality, I feel confident in my view.

That's how I read it, whether wrongly or rightly.

Quote from: lotanddaughters
Most of us agree that if you desire to rape, don't follow that urge or we will punish you.

If you desire sexual relations with 5-year-olds, don't follow that urge, even with the child's consent, or we will punish you.

Actually the idea that most who desire to rape (I know people have 'rape' fantasies) don't rape because they'll get punished worries me. If we suddenly took away the punishment would most decide that it's okay to rape? Even rape a child?

It's akin to the argument that without God there are no morals, the one that Christians like to throw at us atheists because they have this idea that without the fear of hell to punish us, we'd do whatever the hell we want and yet we act contrary and I wouldn't say that it's because we'd be punished by law either, because there are numerous ways of getting away with certain 'immoralities' many simply do not commit. People are still compassionate and still act selflessly, I don't know what percentage of the population is 'nice', but I know that one of our basic emotions is empathy, whilst not everybody has it, but those that do tend to care about how their actions affect others. I would like to think those without empathy are in smaller numbers.

But what are you actually basing this on? Your own projected feelings or something more solid? I'd be interested in seeing how much of the world's population with the desire to rape would rape if the consequences were removed and I wonder how many would live by some kind of moral standard?

Also, just because somebody desires something, it doesn't mean they're opportunists. I might desire to eat a sandwich because I'm hungry, and as I'm out of bread, I can't make myself one, but as soon as I see somebody else with a sandwich, I'm not going to snatch it, yes, I'd probably get away with it - who's going to charge me for stealing a sandwich? But the reason I wouldn't do it is because it's their sandwich and it's not right that I steal it from them, particularly as they probably want to enjoy it.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: orpat on July 01, 2012, 01:29:52 PM
The girl should have verified his age. Should have checked his birth certificate first or any documents revealing details about his age(guy could have lied he was 16+) and after fully confirming that the "kid" was indeed above 16 years of age(in which case no body could point a finger against her), then only she should have indulged in sex.  :o


After all, we all verify our ages first by going through each other's birth certificates before indulging in sexual activities, don't we?  ;)
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: orpat on July 01, 2012, 02:21:11 PM
Another thing the lady could have done was learning how to differentiate between the facial/physical features of a 15 year old and a 16-18 year old.

After all, a 15 year old looks drastically different from a 16 years old. Doesn't he/she?


P.s. I'm not advocating sex between a 15 years and a 24 years old btw. It's the law which I find funny.

Also it is easy to point fingers at others. We would like to believe that "normal" people like us can't/won't do such things.
For instance, I like to believe that I will never ever do such a horrible thing(indulging in sex with a 15 years old or in fact even thinking about it) because of my morality, self-control etc,etc.

But thing is, we never know.




Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on July 01, 2012, 05:05:28 PM
Perhaps so, but I don't think OOA deserved to be called a "backwards fucking freak" for having this attitude.

Agreed. Joe and Frank could express their points of view with far less character attacks. All it does is devalue their arguments to the point of nonsense. IDK how anyone can expect to have their opinions heard if they can't even behave and express themselves with out being combative.

Any ways kudos to you Gnu for speaking up.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on July 01, 2012, 05:06:37 PM
After all, a 15 year old looks drastically different from a 16 years old. Doesn't he/she?

I could not tell the difference or expect anyone else to. If the boy lied then I wouldn't hold her legally accountable. (For the age portion, not the attempting to have sex in public portion.)
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on July 01, 2012, 05:11:12 PM
Arousal is involuntary, as are emotions. The thing (one of them anyway) that separates us from other great apes is that we choose not to listen to emotions. Just because your dick is hard doesn't mean you have to stick it somewhere and hump until it's not hard anymore. Teenagers (whether due to hormonal changes or social conditioning) seem to disagree with that, as do apes. Apes (and living beings in general) live and survive with the express purpose of continuing their species. Now do you get my comparison?

Some people lack impulse control. Even if this kid were of legal age, deciding to have sex in public place is going to have consequences if you get caught. So either way she screwed up.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on July 01, 2012, 05:12:44 PM
How quaint.

Can you please clarify what you are saying here HAL?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 01, 2012, 05:13:16 PM
Some people lack impulse control.

I know. That's one of the factors involved in what I call "emotional immaturity".

Even if this kid were of legal age, deciding to have sex in public place is going to have consequences if you get caught. So either way she screwed up.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 01, 2012, 05:48:41 PM
Perhaps so, but I don't think OOA deserved to be called a "backwards fucking freak" for having this attitude.

Agreed. Joe and Frank could express their points of view with far less character attacks. All it does is devalue their arguments to the point of nonsense. IDK how anyone can expect to have their opinions heard if they can't even behave and express themselves with out being combative.

Read OAA's first post in this thread(Reply #20). Wait, you already did. You gave it a +1. The post contained character attacks and seemed a little combative. OAA deserves to be called many things if he can dish it out on his first post of a thread.

Quote
Any ways kudos to you Gnu for speaking up.

Kimberly, you can shut up and sit the fuck down.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 01, 2012, 05:57:47 PM
OAA deserves to be called many things if he can dish it out on his first post of a thread.

Even if your non-sequitur was valid, I think I handled it fairly well. You claimed I was backwards; evidence suggests otherwise. You claimed I was a freak; evidence suggests that's not a bad thing in this case.
You see, whereas you meant to insult me and failed, my connection had the subtle intent of debunking joebbowers's position by showing how it's emotionally immature, and thus harmful. I'll try to post the big picture from now on.[1]
 1. And no, this is not an insult.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: naemhni on July 01, 2012, 06:02:02 PM
Kimberly, you can shut up and sit the fuck down.

Stow that, L&D.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 01, 2012, 06:32:32 PM
OAA deserves to be called many things if he can dish it out on his first post of a thread.

Even if your non-sequitur was valid, I think I handled it fairly well. You claimed I was backwards; evidence suggests otherwise. You claimed I was a freak; evidence suggests that's not a bad thing in this case.
You see, whereas you meant to insult me and failed, my connection had the subtle intent of debunking joebbowers's position by showing how it's emotionally immature, and thus harmful. I'll try to post the big picture from now on.[1]
 1. And no, this is not an insult.

Joe's Reply #15 was a pretty good observation of basically how things work in the modern-day mating game. He was obviously aware of, but never thought of mentioning, the freaks on the fringe. He was not attacking you.

You bust out swinging with your Reply #21.

He took it easy on you with his Reply #22. Nevertheless, Timtheskeptic gave him a -1 for it. Who is Tim? Another freak on the fringe? I guess so.

Then you make only your 2nd reply of the thread. Reply #22:

You really are pathetic and dishonest. I just told you that it's not true and gave my personal example. I'm sure other members have similar opinions to my own. Yet you can't admit that you're wrong. That's just sad.

I'm surprised that all the logic hunters didn't declare "Open Season" on your ass.

I took it easy on an aggressor like you. Be thankful.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: HAL on July 01, 2012, 06:39:11 PM
How quaint.


Can you please clarify what you are saying here HAL?

Quaint? You know - old fashioned charm. Quaint.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 01, 2012, 06:45:43 PM
Joe's Reply #15 was a pretty good observation of basically how things work in the modern-day mating game.

joebbowers's reply #15 was a good observation of how his mind works. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.

He was obviously aware of, but never thought of mentioning, the freaks on the fringe.

It was so obvious that only you, who already agree with him, noticed it.

He was not attacking you.

This is just plain irrelevant, as I did not claim otherwise.

You bust out swinging with your Reply #21.

I already explained the one thing that might be construed as "aggressive".

He took it easy on you with his Reply #22. Nevertheless, Timtheskeptic gave him a -1 for it. Who is Tim? Another freak on the fringe? I guess so.

Wow, people who disagree with other people gave them -1's? Say it ain't so! That's never happened before in the history of the Internet!

Then you make only your 2nd reply of the thread. Reply #22:
<snip>

The "pathetic" thing was an insult, but with a purpose. I already mentioned the false consensus effect. It's pathetic that he actually thinks of himself as being better than everyone else when it's so blindingly obvious that the opposite is true.

I'm surprised that all the logic hunters didn't declare "Open Season" on your ass.

Sorry; I'm saving my ass for the right guy/girl.

I took it easy on an aggressor like you.

An "aggressor" like me? Wow. You're totally not overreacting in the least.

Be thankful.

Thankful for... what? If I can "dish it out", I can damn well take it. Be as aggressive as you think I was. See if I care.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Seppuku on July 01, 2012, 07:10:29 PM
L&D, your insult was inclusive of anybody with similar attitudes on partners as OAA, so your retaliation wasn't just directed at OAA, as I share the same approach, what do you suggest I do in response? Call you a 'see you next Tuesday?' Or just deal with it?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 01, 2012, 07:29:04 PM
Joe's Reply #15 was a pretty good observation of basically how things work in the modern-day mating game.

joebbowers's reply #15 was a good observation of how his mind works. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.

I will try to make it simple. There is no question that guys, on average, want to have sex with girls more than girls want to have sex with them. To get sex, they have to offer something or appear to offer something that the girls want. Sometimes they get lucky and encounter a girl who wants sex just as badly, but this is usually not the case. This is as true as 1+1=2.


He was obviously aware of, but never thought of mentioning, the freaks on the fringe.

It was so obvious that only you, who already agree with him, noticed it.

He was not attacking you.

This is just plain irrelevant, as I did not claim otherwise.

You bust out swinging with your Reply #21.

I already explained the one thing that might be construed as "aggressive".

You are right about not claiming that he was attacking you. I just wanted to make sure you knew why I perceived you as the aggressor and thought I would chime in and take a shot at this discussion.


He took it easy on you with his Reply #22. Nevertheless, Timtheskeptic gave him a -1 for it. Who is Tim? Another freak on the fringe? I guess so.

Wow, people who disagree with other people gave them -1's? Say it ain't so! That's never happened before in the history of the Internet!

I should have said his Reply #21. It's not 22. The vibe I got out of this post of his is that he didn't feel like engaging in a debate with a quaint person. I also simply thought that Tim deserved honorable mention.


Then you make only your 2nd reply of the thread. Reply #22:
<snip>

The "pathetic" thing was an insult, but with a purpose. I already mentioned the false consensus effect. It's pathetic that he actually thinks of himself as being better than everyone else when it's so blindingly obvious that the opposite is true.

It was still pretty aggressive when he seemed so not-in-the-mood-to-argue-with-the-quaint.


I'm surprised that all the logic hunters didn't declare "Open Season" on your ass.

Sorry; I'm saving my ass for the right guy/girl.

How quaint.



I took it easy on an aggressor like you.

An "aggressor" like me? Wow. You're totally not overreacting in the least.

Be thankful.

Thankful for... what? If I can "dish it out", I can damn well take it. Be as aggressive as you think I was. See if I care.

Once again, you were right about taking it. I got more to give too.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 01, 2012, 07:33:16 PM
L&D, your insult was inclusive of anybody with similar attitudes on partners as OAA, so your retaliation wasn't just directed at OAA, as I share the same approach, what do you suggest I do in response? Call you a 'see you next Tuesday?' Or just deal with it?

You'd better bring your best argument, 'cause I'm declaring a logical beat down on all the idiots in your camp. Bring your sword too.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 01, 2012, 07:34:03 PM
I will try to make it simple. There is no question that guys, on average, like joebbowers want to have sex with girls more than girls want to have sex with them. To get sex, they have to offer something or appear to offer something that the girls want. Sometimes they get lucky and encounter a girl who wants sex just as badly, but this is usually not the case. This is as true as 1+1=2.

I fixed that for you. It's that kind of self-stereotyping that makes men wonder why women don't like them. Men, on average, just like women, are responsible adults who don't take advantage of others. The "fringe freaks" are you; the ones who would manipulate women in order to have sex with them. The emotionally immature crowd. You're still boys, really.

I should have said his Reply #21. It's not 22. The vibe I got out of this post of his is that he didn't feel like engaging in a debate with a quaint person. I also simply thought that Tim deserved honorable mention.

My point remains.

It was still pretty aggressive when he seemed so not-in-the-mood-to-argue-with-the-quaint.

Your perception. Not mine.

Once again, you were right about taking it. I got more to give too.

Be my guest. I like it rough. ;)
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Seppuku on July 01, 2012, 08:08:15 PM
L&D, your insult was inclusive of anybody with similar attitudes on partners as OAA, so your retaliation wasn't just directed at OAA, as I share the same approach, what do you suggest I do in response? Call you a 'see you next Tuesday?' Or just deal with it?

You'd better bring your best argument, 'cause I'm declaring a logical beat down on all the idiots in your camp. Bring your sword too.

Meh, i'm not going stoop to your level of childishness, I haven't actually insulted you (and you complain about OAA's insult), so I am tempted to retaliate, but i'd rather have a logical discussion, not one with arrogance and insults, because they tend to be one-sided.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 01, 2012, 08:23:45 PM
I will try to make it simple. There is no question that guys, on average, like joebbowers want to have sex with girls more than girls want to have sex with them. To get sex, they have to offer something or appear to offer something that the girls want. Sometimes they get lucky and encounter a girl who wants sex just as badly, but this is usually not the case. This is as true as 1+1=2.
I fixed that for you. It's that kind of self-stereotyping that makes men wonder why women don't like them. Men, on average, just like women, are responsible adults who don't take advantage of others. The "fringe freaks" are you; the ones who would manipulate women in order to have sex with them. The emotionally immature crowd. You're still boys, really.

Let's get to the bottom of this. Point for point. Do you agree that guys, on average, want to have sex with girls more than girls want to have sex with them?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 01, 2012, 08:27:37 PM
Let's get to the bottom of this. Point for point. Do you agree that guys, on average, want to have sex with girls more than girls want to have sex with them?

Boys, yes. Not men. And specially not males.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 01, 2012, 08:34:02 PM
Let's get to the bottom of this. Point for point. Do you agree that guys, on average, want to have sex with girls more than girls want to have sex with them?

Boys, yes. Not men. And specially not males.

I say, if you round up all the people in the world, from those who have reached puberty on up, you will find that males, on average, want to have sex with females more than females want to have sex with them. Do you agree?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 01, 2012, 08:35:53 PM
I say, if you round up all the people in the world, from those who have reached puberty on up, you will find that males, on average, want to have sex with females more than females want to have sex with them. Do you agree?

You misunderstand me. When I speak of "boys" and "men", I speak in psychological terms. This is not an age issue. At least not physical age. To me, the fact that you see sex the way that you do screams emotional immaturity.

EDIT: You know, this discussion is going to end in one of two ways:
#1: We disagree and we both walk away, heads held high.
#2: We disagree and someone ends up pissed off.

I'd much rather we end it with #1, so what do you say we agree to disagree? Unless you have statistics that show my "males" claim[1] is erroneous, the rest simply cannot be wrong, by its very definition.

EDIT #2: And no, this is not a cop-out. It is an offer. If you wish to keep debating, I'm OK with that too.
 1. Which doesn't revolve around psychology.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 01, 2012, 09:29:07 PM
I say, if you round up all the people in the world, from those who have reached puberty on up, you will find that males, on average, want to have sex with females more than females want to have sex with them. Do you agree?

You misunderstand me. When I speak of "boys" and "men", I speak in psychological terms. This is not an age issue. At least not physical age. To me, the fact that you see sex the way that you do screams emotional immaturity.

EDIT: You know, this discussion is going to end in one of two ways:
#1: We disagree and we both walk away, heads held high.
#2: We disagree and someone ends up pissed off.

I'd much rather we end it with #1, so what do you say we agree to disagree? Unless you have statistics that show my "males" claim[1] is erroneous, the rest simply cannot be wrong, by its very definition.

EDIT #2: And no, this is not a cop-out. It is an offer. If you wish to keep debating, I'm OK with that too.
 1. Which doesn't revolve around psychology.

However you define "boys" and "men", take all of "them" from puberty on up. Do you agree with my claim?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 01, 2012, 10:14:25 PM

Let's get to the bottom of this. Point for point. Do you agree that guys, on average, want to have sex with girls more than girls want to have sex with them?

No, i do not. I don't know any men who are so hell bent on chasing after women to score some "ta tas"as some calls it. I as a bisexual man don't go chasing anyone for some one night stand. As for me giving Joe minus darwin, it was reasonable, sorry you think i was... no, i'm not sorry. Also, everyone is different, every man is different. I've seen a lot of guys who are respectful, try to work their share in life, look for dates with honesty and respect, and are far more mature than you or Joey. Also, this applies to women as well. We're all different, no two man are the same. So, no i don't agree.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: jaimehlers on July 02, 2012, 03:15:13 AM
Wow.  Reading the discussion that happened yesterday, I'm amazed and a little annoyed at the way lotanddaughters came out swinging.  Especially since he seems bound and determined now to try to "prove" how "illogical" OAA and others who think like him are.  Before he gets too far up on that high horse of his, I'd like to point out that when you're criticizing someone else's logic, it behooves you to avoid doing so with logical fallacies.  Such as, I dunno, personal attacks?  It doesn't say much when your second post in this thread includes the blanket insult of "backward fucking freaks", especially when you declare later on that you're going to bring a logical "beat down" on all the "idiots" who think like OAA.

By the way, I do need to point out that by any reasonable moral standard, sexual arousal is not morally equivalent to hunger.  People do not waste away and die if they ignore the feeling of sexual arousal, whereas people will starve to death if they ignore hunger long enough.  It's kind of hard to equate the one with the other.  The fact that you made such a statement and yet declare that others are being illogical is odd, to say the least.

In short, take a step back and lose the attitude if you want to debate OAA.  Or anyone else, for that matter.  The only things you're accomplishing with the attitude are to annoy other people and to handicap your own efforts at convincing others that you're correct.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 02, 2012, 03:45:16 AM
However you define "boys" and "men", take all of "them" from puberty on up. Do you agree with my claim?

Boys, yes. Men, no. What did I say in my edit #1 of my previous post? Men do not want to have sex more often than women. That's one of the things that separates them from the boys. My definitions are based on psychology and not physiology, and as such, they cannot be wrong.

EDIT: If you want evidence, you need only to look at my karma history in this thread. You and HAL are the only ones who gave me -1's. I received four +1's in this thread and two (IIRC) -1's. You'd think that men would know their gender, and that women would know the gender they're dating, right? Hell, Timtheskeptic is bisexual (so am I, by the way), so he has both of those working for him.

If you want to challenge my assertions, the only one you can challenge is the "males" one. So get some evidence and challenge it, accept that I'm right, or take my offer and agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Azdgari on July 02, 2012, 04:16:48 AM
Centuries of cultural conditioning toward women saying they should not enjoy sex might have something to do with the apparently greater liking of sex by males in some circles.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on July 02, 2012, 07:17:22 AM
"might"? It absolutely does. Very good point though. Combine that with the fact that men have about 7 times the level of testosterone that women do (the hormone that regulates sex drive).
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: HAL on July 02, 2012, 07:33:44 AM
Men do not want to have sex more often than women.

Well basically you're dead wrong.

There's three pages of information on WebMD but this summarizes it well enough -

Quote
"Men want sex more often than women at the start of a relationship, in the middle of it, and after many years of it," Baumeister concludes after reviewing several surveys of men and women. This isn't just true of heterosexuals, he reports: gay men also have higher frequency of sex than lesbians at all stages of the relationship. Men also say they want more sex partners in their lifetime, and are more interested in casual sex.

http://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare

Edit: That's why I said you are a very naive person regarding this claim.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: jaimehlers on July 02, 2012, 08:17:28 AM
There is a strong biological drive in human males to have sex.  Men also don't have to deal with most of the potential aftereffects of having sex (STDs being a notable exception).  So it's not surprising that many men might desire sex more.  However, cultural conditioning plays a huge part in that.  I don't think that the increased levels of testosterone play nearly as large of a part in things.  If you had a culture where everyone (rather than just women) were systematically discouraged from having sex, I suspect that the numbers of men vs women who desired sex would be much closer to even, and the same with a culture where sex was freely encouraged in both sexes (especially if, say, you had reliable birth control).

As examples of just how pervasive the cultural conditioning against women having sex is, even in modern-day culture, consider the following:
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: none on July 02, 2012, 08:40:17 AM
I chuckle when men pontificate about women.
I can only say women spend hours "getting" ready... and for what? and why?

Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: screwtape on July 02, 2012, 08:55:40 AM
whores or sluts

I've ceased to consider these two words as pejoratives.  I no longer call politicians who do anything for a dollar, "whores".  It is insulting to whores who work very hard to provide a much needed service. 

I also consider the term "cocksucker" to be a positive epithet. 

If I were xian, I would say "god bless whores, sluts and cocksuckers, for they do the Lord's work". 

Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: orpat on July 02, 2012, 09:56:16 AM
whores or sluts

I've ceased to consider these two words as pejoratives.  I no longer call politicians who do anything for a dollar, "whores".  It is insulting to whores who work very hard to provide a much needed service. 

I also consider the term "cocksucker" to be a positive epithet. 

If I were xian, I would say "god bless whores, sluts and cocksuckers, for they do the Lord's work".

I am ashamed to admit that at one time, I too used to believe that  women who were prostitutes,whores, sluts were least deserving of respect and I despised them. As my knowledge grew, I realized they were "real" people, working hard to earn a living. They are humans who need to earn to live, and if the earning is by providing a service like "safe sex" , I see no harm in it.

Edit : Could it be a good idea to replace the terms whore, slut, prostitute with sex trader?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: HAL on July 02, 2012, 10:33:45 AM
Where did One Above All run off too?

Normally he's constantly logged on. He sure got awfully quiet after I posted evidence he is wrong.  &)
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: none on July 02, 2012, 10:38:41 AM
Where did One Above All run off too?

Normally he's constantly logged on. He sure got awfully quiet after I posted evidence he is wrong.  &)
the evidence is biased.
men talking about women in stringent terms.
I counter that webMD evidence by saying women express sexuality different than an erection.
but that is just me.
are you going to argue that  when women do things it is a ritual that lasts until the erection gets satisfied?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: HAL on July 02, 2012, 10:44:11 AM
I counter that webMD evidence by saying ...

Pfffft. You don't have the credentials to counter it. The credentials you have are none.  ;D
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: none on July 02, 2012, 10:47:28 AM
sorry I kissed your ass at one time.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: HAL on July 02, 2012, 11:07:46 AM
This is getting tiring, there's so much out there to show men want more sex than women.

Quote
Men and women are DIFFERENT.
Not better or worse, just different.

...

By Nature men are made to seek as much sex as they can get, so they can spread their seed wider.

By Nature women are made to seek as many admirers as they can get, so they can make a better choice and get the best seed.

Men seek quantity - women seek quality.

This is why men seek sex and women seek love.

http://www.sosuave.com/articles/why.htm


Quote
"Shocking" Study: Men Want Sex More Often Than Women

But, as it turns out (surprise, surprise) ... studies indicate that men want sex more than women do, as sociologist Mark Regnerus notes in a new article for Slate. He writes that social psychologists Roy Baumeister and Kathleen Vohs and others "have repeatedly shown, on average, men want sex more than women do. Call it sexist, call it whatever you want — the evidence shows it's true."

Read more: Study on Men Wanting More Sex Than Women - Proof Men Want More Casual Sex - Marie Claire
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: none on July 02, 2012, 11:16:49 AM
like I said if sex is related to the erection then yeah men are the more sexual counterpart.
if sex is not masculine then I would say that women fair equally if not more so.
so you can take all those studies that pivot sex around the penis and throw them away.
why does a woman clean her twat?

Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: HAL on July 02, 2012, 11:26:29 AM
so you can take all those studies that pivot sex around the penis and throw them away.

The truth hurts doesn't it.  :)
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on July 02, 2012, 11:29:07 AM
How did we get to discussing why how much sex someone desires? Does it really matter, in regards to this topic, how high someone's sex drive is? Every man/woman has their own sex drive that is determined by various factors and generally speaking it's safe to assume men have a higher sex drive. But WTF does that have to do with some women trying to have sex with a 15 YO? I must have missed how that was relevant.

Edited: forgot two words :D
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: none on July 02, 2012, 11:29:34 AM
so you can take all those studies that pivot sex around the penis and throw them away.

The truth hurts doesn't it.  :)
well if sex is limited to the penis I guess lesbians don't have sex.
hahaha
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: HAL on July 02, 2012, 11:34:48 AM
How did we get to discussing why how much sex someone desires?

I don't know, but I had to respond since The One called out my name and posted this -

Men do not want to have sex more often than women.

I had to show him he was dead wrong. I don't know where he's run off too.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on July 02, 2012, 11:42:11 AM
I really don't like making generalized statements about an entire sect of people. To say men or women have a higher or lower sex drive excludes a large population of those who are the exception to the rule.

I can't speak for OAA but I think he is trying to make a differentiation  in the types of men who allow their sex drive to objectivity women. I think he more or less attempting to discuss the difference in sexual and emotional maturity. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood it by reading the thread as it progressed.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: jaimehlers on July 02, 2012, 11:46:32 AM
I've ceased to consider these two words as pejoratives.  I no longer call politicians who do anything for a dollar, "whores".  It is insulting to whores who work very hard to provide a much needed service. 

I also consider the term "cocksucker" to be a positive epithet. 

If I were xian, I would say "god bless whores, sluts and cocksuckers, for they do the Lord's work".
I don't use those terms, personally.  "Slut" is a double standard, and "whore" is kind of silly, given that prostitution is, if not the oldest, then certainly among the oldest of all professions.

Plus, as you said, comparing prostitutes to politicians is an insult to the former.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 02, 2012, 12:23:19 PM
I can't speak for OAA but I think he is trying to make a differentiation  in the types of men who allow their sex drive to objectivity women. I think he more or less attempting to discuss the difference in sexual and emotional maturity. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood it by reading the thread as it progressed.

You are correct, Kimberly.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Seppuku on July 02, 2012, 01:24:57 PM
Yes, generalisations are an issue. Statistically speaking there may be more men with a high sex drive than women, but to say men have a higher sex drive than women is a different statement, the former suggests that as a man I should have a higher sex drive than a woman, but the latter suggests that more men have higher sex drives than women. There could be plenty of extremely horny women and plenty of men who enjoy sex, but have a very low sex drive.

I suppose it's semantics really, but still I think the distinction is important for the sake of clarity.

The problem with human psychology is that you can't generalise. One of the problems with psychological studies is that you might find things stack in your favour statistically, but on a more individual level, your answers might not even be applicable. Many do try and universalise psychological studies (generally people who aren't psychologists), but individual differences tend to be the reason why there's never a one shoe fits all approach to psychology. This is kind of the reason why when using a psychological theory in the 'should parents hit their kids' discussion I didn't have much of a leg to stand on, whilst the psychological theories had a lot of support for me original argument, but it was nothing that could really be universalised, which is why when faced with additional data I changed my stance as I saw it to be more substantial, though with the findings of both studies are not wrong, it just means they apply to different groups. I see it as being the case here.

The human brain is highly complex and highly variated. It'd be a very boring existence if it weren't. :)

And of course, if you horny devils like your one-night stands and having a sex driven relationship, you're welcome to it, it doesn't make you 'bad' people nor does it make you lesser. Heck, you sexy beasts might be in the majority. But hey, its your lives, so shag to your penis' desire if you must. ;D And I'll sit here writing bad poetry and using the moon in lame metaphors to tell HAL how I would turn gay for him.

I wonder, what's a good rhyme for Lark? Not, Tony Stark, because I'm a one-man straight guy.

[edit]

I'd be interested in knowing how much of our 'sexuality' or lack of is influenced by culture, society and even the media, does the representation of sex given to us affect our attitudes towards it, or does it even affect our sexual drive to a degree?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 02, 2012, 03:05:37 PM
How did we get to discussing why how much sex someone desires? Does it really matter, in regards to this topic, how high someone's sex drive is? Every man/woman has their own sex drive that is determined by various factors and generally speaking it's safe to assume men have a higher sex drive. But WTF does that have to do with some women trying to have sex with a 15 YO? I must have missed how that was relevant.

Edited: forgot two words :D

It's relevant because some of us in this thread know that there are many male humans around the world that would be jealous of the 15 year old if they heard about this story.

Why would any women be jealous of the 24 year old? The 24 year old women of the world could go out and get a 15 year old boy any time they want . . . I repeat . . . any   time   they   want.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 02, 2012, 05:08:51 PM
How did we get to discussing why how much sex someone desires? Does it really matter, in regards to this topic, how high someone's sex drive is? Every man/woman has their own sex drive that is determined by various factors and generally speaking it's safe to assume men have a higher sex drive. But WTF does that have to do with some women trying to have sex with a 15 YO? I must have missed how that was relevant.

Edited: forgot two words :D

It's relevant because some of us in this thread know that there are many male humans around the world that would be jealous of the 15 year old if they heard about this story.

Why would any women be jealous of the 24 year old? The 24 year old women of the world could go out and get a 15 year old boy any time they want . . . I repeat . . . any   time   they   want.

So i should be jealous of a 15 year old boy who was being taken advantage of? I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. Yes there may be a large amount of men who are bleedin' horn dogs, but don't put all men in one basket and don't assume you know women's mind and sex drive.

I never had any. Yeah, that's right, a 30 year old virgin! Oh wow, i can year a bunch of jeering and name calling already for this, but what choice do i have? I don't know about you, but i don't feel jealous of little teenage boys. I don't have the urge to hump women or men because i felt horny. Also, i hadn't seen any men going, "ZOMG, we're so horny, we rather go home and bang some girls whether they want it or not!" The point is, not everyone thinks the same or has the same sex drive.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: HAL on July 02, 2012, 06:33:01 PM
I can't speak for OAA but I think he is trying to make a differentiation  in the types of men who allow their sex drive to objectivity women. I think he more or less attempting to discuss the difference in sexual and emotional maturity. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood it by reading the thread as it progressed.

Well here's his statement -

Men do not want to have sex more often than women.

What he said is pretty cut and dried. I went looking for evidence one way or the other and found out he's simply wrong.

I'm not a politician, so I suppose a person could spin what he said to make it sound like he was right, but it seems pretty plain to me - and dead wrong. I don't know why he's making that claim since it's easy to find tons of info on it.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on July 02, 2012, 06:40:38 PM
HAL

If I have an hour long conversation and someone walks in to it at the 45 min mark is it safe to assume they will be able to discuss what I said up to the 45 min mark with any clarity? Or is it better to listen to the entire 45 min conversation before cherry picking out one sentence that taken out of context of the entire conversation sounds worse then it's intent?

IDK about you HAL but I'd rather read the whole book than just the last page before making my judgement on the book.  ;)

Besides he clarified his point when he responded in reply # 110. While his response might not have satisfied your inquiry I think it's safe to assume you are clinging on this one thing for dear life when there's no more rope left.

My two cents. I'm not trying to speak for OAA, I really don't even want to respond to this. But you directed the message at me so hence my reply. I think if you aren't satisfied with his response you should ask qualifying questions directed at OAA.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 02, 2012, 06:42:35 PM
So i should be jealous of a 15 year old boy . . .

No, I can't say that you should. I just want you to be aware that if you are not jealous, you are in the minority.


Quote
. . . who was being taken advantage of?

Saying he was being taken advantage of is like saying Jesus died for what I am about to write. It is so ridiculous, you must be from outer space to believe this. There are millions of 15-year-old boys with their dick in their hand right now. If a 24-year-old woman walked into the room where one of these dick-holding 15-year-olds were, and she had sex with him, she would no more be taking advantage of him than he was already taking advantage of himself.


Quote
I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.

You say I'm ridiculous. I say you're ridiculous. One of us is way off the mark, and it ain't me.


Quote
Yes there may be a large amount of men who are bleedin' horn dogs, but don't put all men in one basket and don't assume you know women's mind and sex drive.

Based on my life-long observation, what I say is true.


Quote
I never had any. Yeah, that's right, a 30 year old virgin! Oh wow, i can year a bunch of jeering and name calling already for this, but what choice do i have?

I admire your honesty.


Quote
I don't know about you, but i don't feel jealous of little teenage boys. I don't have the urge to hump women or men because i felt horny.

I think you are better off than the average man. Having less desires makes a life where you are more easily satisfied.


Quote
Also, i hadn't seen any men going, "ZOMG, we're so horny, we rather go home and bang some girls whether they want it or not!"

That example would be hornier than average. I haven't seen that either.


Quote
The point is, not everyone thinks the same or has the same sex drive.

I agree with that point.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: HAL on July 02, 2012, 06:53:43 PM
Besides he clarified his point when he responded in reply # 110. While his response might not have satisfied your inquiry I think it's safe to assume you are clinging on this one thing for dear life when there's no more rope left.

I have read what else he wrote around the sentence and I don't see what you see.

Men do not want to have sex more often than women.

^^^ That's wrong, it's incorrect, it's not backed up by evidence.

He challenged someone to prove him wrong and I did. Men do want to have sex more than women. I know what "men" means and I know what "women" means, as well as the rest of the words in the sentence. If he made a mistake in writing the sentence then I hope he corrects the mistake. If you and him want to spin it otherwise I can't stop you.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on July 02, 2012, 07:01:16 PM
HAL, for the record, I'm done responding to what OAA said or didn't say. I just don't want you to think I'm ignoring you, again I think if you aren't satisfied with his answer you should speak directly to him about it. If you have anything else to discuss with me about my opinions on this topic I will be happy to reply, if not enjoy my silence.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: HAL on July 02, 2012, 07:05:36 PM
HAL, for the record, I'm done responding to what OAA said or didn't say. I just don't want you to think I'm ignoring you, again I think if you aren't satisfied with his answer you should speak directly to him about it.

I'm satisfied with my research rebutting his statement. It's up to him to either change his stance or be ignorant about it. I can't force him to do anything.

Quote
If you have anything else to discuss with me about my opinions on this topic I will be happy to reply, if not enjoy my silence.

OK thanks. Enjoy your evening. No need to respond again.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 02, 2012, 07:19:52 PM
Listen up.

If you are skeptical of the studies that HAL has provided, conduct an experiment yourself.


If you are a heterosexual man:

Go knocking door to door. If a woman answers, tell her you would like to have sex with her. If she declines, continue to the next door and repeat. Before long, someone will call the cops on you and you will be arrested.



If you are a heterosexual woman:

Go knocking door to door. If a man answers, tell him you would like to have sex with him. If his wife, girlfriend, or kids are nearby, continue to the next door and repeat. Before long, there will be a man vigorously thrusting his cock into you.



If you are a homosexual man:

Walk into a gay bar. Pull your pants down. Bend over. Loudly yell, "Come and get it!" Before long, your butthole will be plugged with gay cock.





Conclusion:

Men, on average, gay or straight, are some horny motherfuckers. Period.





EDIT for the user named "none": The woman needn't be heterosexual if she wishes to embark on this experiment.

EDIT #2: On further thought, the sexual preference of the one conducting the experiment doesn't matter. Just beware of the inevitable result.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: none on July 02, 2012, 07:23:53 PM
I said the studies were biased.
if sex is sticking your dick in a hole you are right.
do lesbians have sex or not?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: HAL on July 02, 2012, 07:32:37 PM
lotanddaughters,

You really are gifted at explaining things in the most basic of terms!
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: none on July 02, 2012, 07:36:14 PM
it is ok HAL, no need to bow.
I know you agree with me. :)
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Gnu Ordure on July 02, 2012, 07:47:25 PM
The sex-drive argument reminds me of the surveys which state that on average, men have more sexual partners than women. There was one in the UK (http://www.ic.nhs.uk/webfiles/publications/003_Health_Lifestyles/HSE2010_REPORT/HSE2010_Ch6_Sexual_health.pdf) last December (section 6.3.1):

Quote
When asked about the number of opposite sex partners they had had altogether in their life so far, men reported a mean of 9.3 female sexual partners, while women reported a lower number, a mean of 4.7 male sexual partners.

This cannot be correct, because each coupling involves one man and one woman, regardless of their identity. So the average should be the same for each sex.

e.g. there is a population of five men and five women; four of the women remain virgins, the fifth couples with each of the five men. The average number of couplings per gender is one, for men and women.

So why are the survey averages different?

One explanation is that the survey sample didn't pick up women who have thousands of partners i.e. prostitutes, but it did pick up the men who use them. That would skew the figures.

Or, it may be that the male respondents exaggerrated their figures, for reasons of bravado, while the women minimized theirs for reasons of modesty, both in line with the society stereotype we know so well.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 02, 2012, 08:02:39 PM
The sex-drive argument reminds me of the surveys which state that on average, men have more sexual partners than women. There was one in the UK (http://www.ic.nhs.uk/webfiles/publications/003_Health_Lifestyles/HSE2010_REPORT/HSE2010_Ch6_Sexual_health.pdf) last December (section 6.3.1):

Quote
When asked about the number of opposite sex partners they had had altogether in their life so far, men reported a mean of 9.3 female sexual partners, while women reported a lower number, a mean of 4.7 male sexual partners.

This cannot be correct, because each coupling involves one man and one woman, regardless of their identity. So the average should be the same for each sex.

e.g. there is a population of five men and five women; four of the women remain virgins, the fifth couples with each of the five men. The average number of couplings per gender is one, for men and women.

So why are the survey averages different?

One explanation is that the survey sample didn't pick up women who have thousands of partners i.e. prostitutes, but it did pick up the men who use them. That would skew the figures.

Or, it may be that the male respondents exaggerrated their figures, for reasons of bravado, while the women minimized theirs for reasons of modesty, both in line with the society stereotype we know so well.

Everything you stated or pondered sounds logical. I agree.

But on terms of who is hornier, the number of female prostitutes vs. the number of male prostitutes in the world show the overwhelming truth. I haven't even looked up a statistic. Did you need to look up statistics to find out there are probably more female prostitutes? Men are horny. Women want money. That brings us back to Joe's obviously true observation.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 02, 2012, 08:43:40 PM
If you are a homosexual man:

Walk into a gay bar. Pull your pants down. Bend over. Loudly yell, "Come and get it!" Before long, your butthole will be plugged with gay cock.

Bullshit. I've been to gay clubs and i hadn't seen anyone do anything but dance with their partner, but never did anyone try to hit on me. I'm willing to bet that if i pulled my pants down and say, "Come and get it," i would be tossed out and be told i'm not coming back. No, sorry.





Quote
Conclusion:

Men, on average, gay or straight, are some horny motherfuckers. Period.

Horny? Maybe, but not crazed that we would shag anything in sight like dogs.






Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 02, 2012, 09:26:34 PM
If you are a homosexual man:

Walk into a gay bar. Pull your pants down. Bend over. Loudly yell, "Come and get it!" Before long, your butthole will be plugged with gay cock.

Bullshit. I've been to gay clubs and i hadn't seen anyone do anything but dance with their partner, but never did anyone try to hit on me. I'm willing to bet that if i pulled my pants down and say, "Come and get it," i would be tossed out and be told i'm not coming back. No, sorry.

If your ass is all hairy and/or cottage cheesy, then try Emergency Protocol - Grade 1:

Leave your pants on. Wait 'til the sun goes down. Go sit on one of those gay guys' lap. Wiggle your ass round and round. He will then ask you out into the parking lot. There you will receive a good butt-slamming. Trust me.


Quote
Conclusion:

Men, on average, gay or straight, are some horny motherfuckers. Period.

Horny? Maybe,

Thank you for considering the possibility that men, on average, are horny. It's the main reason that there are over 7 billion people in this world.


but not crazed that we would shag anything in sight like dogs.

Perhaps not, but still hornier than women, on average.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timo on July 02, 2012, 09:39:39 PM
Have you ever been to a gay bar?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 02, 2012, 10:01:12 PM
Have you ever been to a gay bar?

All joking aside. Seriously.

I was walking home from work. I saw this bar I had never been to. I was ignorant at the time and held a stereotype that gay bars probably looked flashy with lots of neon lights and what not. This bar looked like your run-of-the-mill "drinking man's bar". I walked in because I wanted a drink and maybe there was some women there. It was just a few guys. I told the bartender it was my first time there. He explained to me that he had "beer and cocks". He was gesturing to the liquor on the shelf when he said "cocks". He might have been referring to cocktails, but he said "cocks". A friend of mine later confirmed to me that, yes, it was a gay bar.

I worked with this guy who said he was bi. He was talking about how he was at his local gay bar that he frequented the night before. He said that there were I think 4 people left at closing. One was a girl. After they locked the doors, they became a four-person train. He was in between a guy and girl. He told me that he was reminded why he doesn't like "receiving". His ass hurt. I shit you not. I had no reason to disbelieve him.

I was all drunk one night and was trying to bang this chick. She took me to an after hours bar. Many gay people liked to hang out there. The draw for the straight people was that they still served drinks after hours. There were men hitting on me left and right. One in particular was over-the-top forward. Maybe I'm just good-looking.

This is all of my real-life experience with the gay bar scene. Honestly.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timo on July 02, 2012, 10:24:56 PM
Ayo, getting hit on isn't exactly the same thing as sexing a dude over the bar because he displayed himself on some National Geographic shit.  Neither is a couple people getting down in a bar after the place was closed for business (which should still be frowned upon since it's a health code violation).

I know you were probably just trying to be funny or whatever.  But your last few posts just came across as homophobic and aggressively ignorant.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 02, 2012, 10:30:20 PM
Ayo, getting hit on isn't exactly the same thing as sexing a dude over the bar because he displayed himself on some National Geographic shit.  Neither is a couple people getting down in a bar after the place was closed for business (which should still be frowned upon since it's a health code violation).

I know you were probably just trying to be funny or whatever.  But your last few posts just came across as homophobic and aggressively ignorant.

I know, Bro. You and I agree alot. Even when you disagree, you are polite but hold your ground. If you read this thread from the beginning, you will see some aggressive and ignorant behavior way before I came onto the scene. Seriously. Some of these "victims" were ganging up on Joe, somewhat big time.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Seppuku on July 02, 2012, 11:08:24 PM
Getting hit on is pretty normal for a bar, it's usually the right kind of place to get a one night stand. Yes, even quasimodo here has been hit on at a bar. Not a gay bar though, I've never actually been to one as I don't swing that way, but if it's anything like the video below, then I can imagine it's a lot of fun.  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewrHj_RRk0Y
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 02, 2012, 11:40:49 PM
i never got hit on in a bar. To be honest, I was a little disappointed but not surprised it didn't happen. I wouldn't mind being asked out or even be told i was cute or something. Sigh, i've been to a gay bar with a couple of friends who are gay themselves. I'm willing to bet that if i tried to display myself all over them, they would be a) thinking i'm nuts and tell me to get off, b) have a boyfriend or husband who would rightfully punch me, c) not even sure what to make of this.

Not every gay or bisexual guys want to shag anything there, even if they display themselves as desperate horn dog. The two young gay men were dancing on the dance floor which is crowded with all kinds of people dancing; lesbians, gay men, maybe some straight couples who are open minded, bisexuals, and more. These two were in front of me (They weren't doing this directly at me, but i watched them with envy) and they were kissing each other and their hands were all over each other. Had i got in between, they'll probably be pissed and rightly so!


Bars do have people that hit on others, that's not a surprise but that's not the same as trying to act like a desperate horn dog. I was actually expecting someone to check me out. But it was dark, the music is loud and everyone was either dancing, talking, or drinking. I just stayed with my group and some of us just danced or stood around drinking (I don't drink). Also, i agree with Seppuku, getting hit on is normal in bars, gay or straight.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timo on July 02, 2012, 11:58:16 PM
I know, Bro. You and I agree alot. Even when you disagree, you are polite but hold your ground. If you read this thread from the beginning, you will see some aggressive and ignorant behavior way before I came onto the scene. Seriously. Some of these "victims" were ganging up on Joe, somewhat big time.

I really don't see what one has to do with the other.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timo on July 03, 2012, 12:05:34 AM
Bars do have people that hit on others, that's not a surprise but that's not the same as trying to act like a desperate horn dog. I was actually expecting someone to check me out. But it was dark, the music is loud and everyone was either dancing, talking, or drinking. I just stayed with my group and some of us just danced or stood around drinking (I don't drink). Also, i agree with Seppuku, getting hit on is normal in bars, gay or straight.

Yo, pro tip:

Next time, try to separate from your group.  Dudes are going to be less likely to hit on someone if they're with a group of people.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Seppuku on July 03, 2012, 12:50:52 AM
Ayo, getting hit on isn't exactly the same thing as sexing a dude over the bar because he displayed himself on some National Geographic s**t.  Neither is a couple people getting down in a bar after the place was closed for business (which should still be frowned upon since it's a health code violation).

I know you were probably just trying to be funny or whatever.  But your last few posts just came across as homophobic and aggressively ignorant.

I know, Bro. You and I agree alot. Even when you disagree, you are polite but hold your ground. If you read this thread from the beginning, you will see some aggressive and ignorant behavior way before I came onto the scene. Seriously. Some of these "victims" were ganging up on Joe, somewhat big time.

Considering some of your insults were actually directed at me and included me in their sweeping statements, I would like it pointed out where I was being aggressive and ignorant towards Joe, yes, I made criticisms on his arguments, but then 'criticising arguments' is the whole point of this forum. There were statements I strongly disagreed with, so naturally I've made my case against them, evem I try to lighten the mood, be it in how I address the post or by trying to make a joke, even if I suck at it. It's easy to be misinterpreted on the internet and every so often I find it happens to me and it sounds like Joe feels that has happened to him as since the last post of his I've addressed he's stated it, hence I've not engaged that part of the discussion further. If anything I've been accepting of Joe's sexuality, even his pedophilia (as from as far as I can tell, he has actually abused a child). The only karma I've only ever given him has been positive karma and I know I gave him one for being honest about his sexuality.

To reiterate:
Quote
Quote

    I just told you that it's not true and gave my personal example. I'm sure other members have similar opinions to my own.


Only you and the backward fucking freaks.

Quote
You'd better bring your best argument, 'cause I'm declaring a logical beat down on all the idiots in your camp. Bring your sword too.

So according to you I'm a backward fucking freak and an idiot.

And considering the level of insulting you were doing towards people, even those who weren't really doing much, I don't think you can really justify your behaviour. If Joe has an issue with people's comments, he is perfectly welcome to say so, if any are out of line he is welcome to put people in their place or report them to a moderator. Yes, you're welcome to stick up for people if you feel they've being picked on, I have nothing against that what-so-ever, but perhaps address the issues with reason before you go in blazing in throwing shit at everybody. You never know, you might have got it wrong or people weren't trying to be personal and therefore didn't see their comments in such a way.

So basically, what you've done is complain about people insulting others by going out of your way to insult others. Wouldn't it be better to lead by example? All you're showing people is that you can be ignorant and that instead of engaging people intellectually you can stoop to childish logical fallacies, which is exactly how people saw it. That might not actually be you, but that's exactly how it came across. So if your insults were for demonstration purposes then perhaps it's not the best approach to the issue. You compliment Timo for his composure and to be honest, I think he leads a good example. If your comments were just retaliation, then I would say it is ignorant and childish.

If it's any consolation, I read your 'homophobic' comments as a joke, but I think in the context of the conversation (with you insulting people) I think it's much easier for people to not see it that way.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 03, 2012, 01:54:29 AM
Bars do have people that hit on others, that's not a surprise but that's not the same as trying to act like a desperate horn dog. I was actually expecting someone to check me out. But it was dark, the music is loud and everyone was either dancing, talking, or drinking. I just stayed with my group and some of us just danced or stood around drinking (I don't drink). Also, i agree with Seppuku, getting hit on is normal in bars, gay or straight.

Yo, pro tip:

Next time, try to separate from your group.  Dudes are going to be less likely to hit on someone if they're with a group of people.

alrighty, next time i go to live in Portland, i'll go alone. :O)
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timo on July 03, 2012, 04:27:54 AM
I've never actually been to one as I don't swing that way, but if it's anything like the video below, then I can imagine it's a lot of fun.

Ayo son, fuck with the gay bar.  A lot of your lady friends will most likely appreciate it and have a good time.  And therefore you and your male friends will probably appreciate it and have a good time.  Also, maybe this is a stereotype, but I'm pretty sure that they play better music in the gay clubs.  I have no way of knowing.  I don't fuck with any clubs right now, but my last memories of gay clubs are dudes playing some awesome old school house and hip-house shit that most hip-hop dudes completely forget about.

Also:

alrighty, next time i go to live in Portland, i'll go alone. :O)

Nah, I'm not saying that you should go out all by your lonesome.  That shit would be hellof boring.  I'm just saying stray a bit from time to time, cause, as a dude that's occasionally on some predator shit, a group gathered around my potential prey can be intimidating.  And I'd imagine that it's only worse for gay and bi dudes since, if I'm out there looking for another man but also trying to be respectful, I've got no way of knowing if any of the guys or gals you're with are your significant other.  You know?  If you're alone at the bar and I come at you and you shoot me down, it's on some no harm no foul shit.


Peace
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Seppuku on July 03, 2012, 11:24:22 AM
Quote
Ayo son, f**k with the gay bar.  A lot of your lady friends will most likely appreciate it and have a good time.  And therefore you and your male friends will probably appreciate it and have a good time.  Also, maybe this is a stereotype, but I'm pretty sure that they play better music in the gay clubs.  I have no way of knowing.  I don't f**k with any clubs right now, but my last memories of gay clubs are dudes playing some awesome old school house and hip-house s**t that most hip-hop dudes completely forget about.

I've not actually been clubbing for 2 years now, but you know what? I might suggest it next time me and group of friends decide to do something.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 03, 2012, 01:23:03 PM
If your ass is all hairy and/or cottage cheesy, then try Emergency Protocol - Grade 1:


my ass is nice and hairless, thanks for asking.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 03, 2012, 01:35:38 PM
my ass is nice and hairless, thanks for asking.

Wanna prove lotanddaughters right then? ;D
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: naemhni on July 03, 2012, 01:38:16 PM
my ass is nice and hairless, thanks for asking.

Thank you for sharing that with us.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 03, 2012, 01:59:10 PM
sorry, was i wrong to say this? I can remove the comment if you like. I was just being snarky to lotanddaughters.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: naemhni on July 03, 2012, 02:01:59 PM
sorry, was i wrong to say this? I can remove the comment if you like. I was just being snarky to lotanddaughters.

No, I was just thanking you for your candor.  ;)
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Gnu Ordure on July 03, 2012, 02:40:54 PM
Mine too.


(http://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/info/hairless/palofoal2.jpg)
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: nogodsforme on July 03, 2012, 03:52:33 PM
Quote
Ayo son, f**k with the gay bar.  A lot of your lady friends will most likely appreciate it and have a good time.  And therefore you and your male friends will probably appreciate it and have a good time.  Also, maybe this is a stereotype, but I'm pretty sure that they play better music in the gay clubs.  I have no way of knowing.  I don't f**k with any clubs right now, but my last memories of gay clubs are dudes playing some awesome old school house and hip-house s**t that most hip-hop dudes completely forget about.

I've not actually been clubbing for 2 years now, but you know what? I might suggest it next time me and group of friends decide to do something.

I feel so very old. My clubbing days were back in the disco '80's. The hot joint was the Paradise in Chicago-- my gay fashion design buddies would take me there. Black, white, gay, straight, bi, trans, you name it. Female impersonators singing Diana Ross--"I'm comin' out" , glitter ball and confetti showering down on everyone at midnight. Prince was king-- "I would die 4 U". 

Of course people hooked up and there were drugs, but that stuff was discreet. The main point was to dance, vogue, see and be seen and have fun. This place was so cool and friendly, gay folks brought their parents to show them not too worry, not all gay places were biker bars or bathhouse meat markets. I am afraid those days may be gone forever--AIDS changed everything.[1]
 1. Two of my best gay guy friends from that era contracted HIV and are dead now. :'(
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 03, 2012, 04:25:19 PM
I was just being snarky to lotanddaughters.

So it's not true? D:
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 03, 2012, 04:28:55 PM
You really are pathetic and dishonest. I just told you that it's not true and gave my personal example. I'm sure other members have similar opinions to my own. Yet you can't admit that you're wrong. That's just sad.

Yes.

Joe's claim:
and boys use love to get sex.

I say fuck that shit.

You are an idiot.

Quit while you're behind.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 03, 2012, 05:01:52 PM
I was just being snarky to lotanddaughters.

So it's not true? D:

Keep up the persistent flirting. You two might end up as one of WWGHA's most happy endings. Here's an excerpt:


As some of you may be aware, I haven't been around much on the forum of late... actually, not at all, since about June.  Real Life has kept me fairly busy.  See, I met this woman on WWGHA about that time.  We were both in the process of getting divorces, and we fell in love.  I quit my job, moved from Houston to Detroit, and since about Christmas we've been "a thing", as the young uns say. I have no doubt that our future life together will be as rich and amazing as these past several months have been.

It isn't often that the Forum family gets to celebrate happy news like this, so we wanted to share.  Here's Xphobe and Persephone this evening, just chillin' after a satisfying dinner of broccoli beef and curry chicken.

(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k546/Persephone_67/P1010734-1.jpg)

I wish I had gotten to meet some of the Texas members before I left (Jetson and Zankuu especially) but on the bright side, I'm now much farther away from George Bush and Rick Perry, and much nearer to Ambassador Pony and Dave Mabus.  I'm looking forward to getting Pony drunk on cheap tequila.

Ok, so how does this tie in with the theme of this section: a personal experience that led me to or away from a religious belief?  Well, I guess it's this - I have had, and am having, the most profound, rewarding experience of my life.  No prayer or deity (as far as I can tell) was involved.  If there is a supreme being, it's Persephone. And she feels the same about me.

It happens . . . and it could be you.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 03, 2012, 05:08:17 PM
Keep up the persistent flirting. You two might end up as one of WWGHA's most happy endings. Here's an excerpt:
<snip>
It happens . . . and it could be you.

He's 30, IIRC. I'm going to be 19 this month. He lives in the USA. I live in Portugal. I'm sure there are other things that would make that impossible.[1]
EDIT: I flirt because it's fun. I've flirted with 50 year olds and 16 year olds; I've flirted with men and women. It's fun.
 1. I'm not saying that the first four things make it impossible, but they certainly make it difficult.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 03, 2012, 05:26:16 PM
Oh it's true OAA, i'm just giving lotanddaughters a "Well you seem interested, so i'll tell ya," kind of response.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 03, 2012, 05:28:25 PM
Keep up the persistent flirting. You two might end up as one of WWGHA's most happy endings. Here's an excerpt:
<snip>
It happens . . . and it could be you.

He's 30, IIRC. I'm going to be 19 this month. He lives in the USA. I live in Portugal. I'm sure there are other things that would make that impossible.[1]
EDIT: I flirt because it's fun. I've flirted with 50 year olds and 16 year olds; I've flirted with men and women. It's fun.
 1. I'm not saying that the first four things make it impossible, but they certainly make it difficult.

Let's have some fun, considering the reality that people have met their "soulmate" in this forum.

Timtheskeptic sends you an invitation to visit him. He is hosting a party, and everyone from WWGHA is invited. He is willing to pay all travel expenses for everyone. Do you attend? Do you look forward to your meeting with Tim?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: nogodsforme on July 03, 2012, 05:28:55 PM
That was so AWWWWW! :-*

Edit: I mean the WWGHA love connection, not the party with Tim. Although the party could rock as well.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: nogodsforme on July 03, 2012, 05:31:41 PM
Mine too.


(http://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/info/hairless/palofoal2.jpg)

Let me be the first to say that you have one sweet little a$$ there. If it was here I'd kiss it. Just to make Alzael jealous.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 03, 2012, 05:34:52 PM
Oh it's true OAA, i'm just giving lotanddaughters a "Well you seem interested, so i'll tell ya," kind of response.

Good to know some men still have the common sense to shave where it's "necessary". :angel: ;)

Timtheskeptic sends you an invitation to visit him. He is hosting a party, and everyone from WWGHA is invited. He is willing to pay all travel expenses for everyone. Do you attend? Do you look forward to your meeting with Tim?

If I were to accept such an invitation[1], I'd look forward to meeting all of you. Timtheskeptic would just be another one of "you". No more; no less. There is nobody on this forum I would look forward to meeting above all others.
 1. I probably wouldn't, but that wouldn't be any fun in this hypothetical.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on July 03, 2012, 05:44:39 PM
That love story was much happier than the only other forum love story I've heard. Hope they are still doing well.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timo on July 03, 2012, 06:38:02 PM
@nogodsforme

I kind of envy that experience to be honest (not the losing friends to AIDS part but the rest of it).  I'm someone who has spent a lot of their time behind two turntables mixing records together.  And I like to think that I appreciate the craft and the history behind that.  But what's often left out of the little origin story that we hip-hoppers teach to our young is that gay clubs were kind of ground zero for developing a lot of what modern DJs do.  We tend to focus on how Kool Herc brought Jamaican sound systems and toasting to the US and combined it with funk or whatever.  That's true but it leaves a lot out.

Complete tangent but yeah...
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Gnu Ordure on July 03, 2012, 06:56:39 PM
Let me be the first to say that you have one sweet little a$$ there.
Thank you. I shaved it myself.

Quote
If it was here I'd kiss it.
That's understandable Nogods, but a lot of people want to kiss my a$$, so you'll have to join the queue.

Unless you want to take my a$$ to a Broadway show, followed by a candlelit dinner, of course... that might expedite things; but don't bet your a$$ on it.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Seppuku on July 03, 2012, 07:05:50 PM
You really are pathetic and dishonest. I just told you that it's not true and gave my personal example. I'm sure other members have similar opinions to my own. Yet you can't admit that you're wrong. That's just sad.

Yes.

Joe's claim:
and boys use love to get sex.

I say f**k that s**t.

You are an idiot.

Quit while you're behind.

First one. Me saying 'yes' was in agreeing with OAA's example and yes that there are others out there who think like him in respect to the discussion. I should have bolded the bits I needed, so I'll give you that one, not that it justifies your insults. Before you go in guns blazing, it might help to ask questions first, as I would have hoped the rest of my post would have communicated my feelings better than my misuse of the quoting feature. Heck, there's a disclaimer in my signature that says I don't always proofread my posts and may end up making mistakes. A lot of my posts are made late at night and I don't always have the attention span once I've finished typing.

The second. You're picking me up on a colloquialism, one that means I refuse to accept the statement and in the context of my post, means I refuse to use love for sex (which is what I quoted), just read the rest of my post talking about it. In it I'm pretty much offering my own view in reference to what I was agreeing with OAA on. If I thought Joe was pathetic and dishonest, I would have added more to my argument. Instead, what I ended up saying was:

Quote
If sex is your goal in a relationship, then it is a shallow relationship, but if it's what the 2 of you want, you're 2 consenting adults, so do what makes the two of you happy. Different people are different,

It's pretty much a, "well you do what makes you happy". If I had a problem with his line of thinking to the degree that I'd insult him for it, I wouldn't have said that or offered other posts in the past where I've been accepting of it. The bit that follows the above quote is telling him that it's not universal, that not all guys have the same train of thought, hence 'individual differences'.

You might pick up the word 'shallow' there. If it's just about sex, it's lacking depth, therefore shallow.

Back to the point, I use colloquialisms from time to time, because I dig that kinda s**t. Is the phrase insulting? No. Is the use of profanity? f**k no. Casual swearing is not an insult to anybody.


So no, I won't quit. I don't let people walk all over me, so don't think I'm gonna let you have that chance.



However, you've not actually addressed my other points.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 03, 2012, 08:07:36 PM
me throwing a party for everyone? That can be possible, i might do some of the cooking, but i am too poor to pay anyone's flight expenses, so you would have to pay your own! Also, i agree with OAA!

As much as i want to find love, i wouldn't focus on this forum for that.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 04, 2012, 07:55:07 AM

Joe's claim:
and boys use love to get sex.

I say f**k that s**t.

Quote
Back to the point, I use colloquialisms from time to time, because I dig that kinda s**t. Is the phrase insulting? No. Is the use of profanity? f**k no. Casual swearing is not an insult to anybody.

I wasn't complaining about the use of language. I love that language. It's music to my ears/eyes. I was showing that you disagreed with Joe on that point.

Quote
So no, I won't quit. I don't let people walk all over me, so don't think I'm gonna let you have that chance.

That's cool. Hey, I love Ronnie James Dio. If you ever get a chance, look up the song "Falling In Love" by Uriah Heep on YouTube. The name of the lead vocalist is John Lawton. If you take away the patented Uriah Heep backing vocals, I think the song sounds like it could have been performed by Rainbow with Dio back in the day. This is the Bottomless Pit. Straying off-topic is allowed. 8)

Quote
However, you've not actually addressed my other points.

I'm gonna try.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 04, 2012, 07:57:47 AM
Timtheskeptic sends you an invitation to visit him. He is hosting a party, and everyone from WWGHA is invited. He is willing to pay all travel expenses for everyone. Do you attend? Do you look forward to your meeting with Tim?

If I were to accept such an invitation[1], I'd look forward to meeting all of you. Timtheskeptic would just be another one of "you". No more; no less. There is nobody on this forum I would look forward to meeting above all others.
 1. I probably wouldn't, but that wouldn't be any fun in this hypothetical.

Thanks for answering and pushing the red button in my hypothetical. ;D
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: lotanddaughters on July 04, 2012, 08:19:00 AM
Quote from: OneAboveAll
To me, it seemed like joebbowers was making blanket statements based on the false-consensus effect. Based on his personality, I feel confident in my view.

That's how I read it, whether wrongly or rightly.

I disagree with you and OAA, but, like OAA said, we could sit here yelling red button/blue button 'til we're red or blue in the face.

Quote
Actually the idea that most who desire to rape (I know people have 'rape' fantasies) don't rape because they'll get punished worries me. If we suddenly took away the punishment would most decide that it's okay to rape? Even rape a child?

I say most wouldn't. Some would, though. In times of war, it seemes that the rapes increase. That is my only "evidence" to go by. If we conducted a poll, "Would you rape if we took away the punishment?", it would probably be a lot more inaccurate than the poll about sex partners that Gnu tore apart.

Quote
It's akin to the argument that without God there are no morals, the one that Christians like to throw at us atheists because they have this idea that without the fear of hell to punish us, we'd do whatever the hell we want and yet we act contrary and I wouldn't say that it's because we'd be punished by law either, because there are numerous ways of getting away with certain 'immoralities' many simply do not commit. People are still compassionate and still act selflessly, I don't know what percentage of the population is 'nice', but I know that one of our basic emotions is empathy, whilst not everybody has it, but those that do tend to care about how their actions affect others. I would like to think those without empathy are in smaller numbers.

I can see the parallels and I agree. Good post.

Quote
But what are you actually basing this on? Your own projected feelings or something more solid? I'd be interested in seeing how much of the world's population with the desire to rape would rape if the consequences were removed and I wonder how many would live by some kind of moral standard?

If you look back at when I brought in the word "rape", I was trying to show that I and most people don't approve of it. I was trying to argue why I don't look down upon a harmless(on its own) evolutionary trait like "arousal".

Quote
Also, just because somebody desires something, it doesn't mean they're opportunists. I might desire to eat a sandwich because I'm hungry, and as I'm out of bread, I can't make myself one, but as soon as I see somebody else with a sandwich, I'm not going to snatch it, yes, I'd probably get away with it - who's going to charge me for stealing a sandwich? But the reason I wouldn't do it is because it's their sandwich and it's not right that I steal it from them, particularly as they probably want to enjoy it.

Once again, I am with you on that. I just think that the evidence is overwhelming that men are hornier than women.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Seppuku on July 04, 2012, 09:20:01 AM
Thank you for your reply.


Quote
That's cool. Hey, I love Ronnie James Dio. If you ever get a chance, look up the song "Falling In Love" by Uriah Heep on YouTube. The name of the lead vocalist is John Lawton. If you take away the patented Uriah Heep backing vocals, I think the song sounds like it could have been performed by Rainbow with Dio back in the day. This is the Bottomless Pit. Straying off-topic is allowed.

Cheers for the recommendation, my parents were Uriah Heep fans, so I got to listen to them growing up, though I'm not sure I've heard that particular song, but it's been a while.


Quote
I disagree with you and OAA, but, like OAA said, we could sit here yelling red button/blue button 'til we're red or blue in the face.

Very true. I much prefer logical arguments than being at each other's necks, which it seems you do too (like with your compliments on Timo on how he composes himself). I think it's harder to give an honest argument when the two sides get in a fist fight. If this conflict is a misunderstanding, then I'll put it aside as such. If I said anything that made Joe feel insulted, then he's welcome to have an apology, though it was not my intention to do so.

Quote
I say most wouldn't. Some would, though. In times of war, it seemes that the rapes increase. That is my only "evidence" to go by. If we conducted a poll, "Would you rape if we took away the punishment?", it would probably be a lot more inaccurate than the poll about sex partners that Gnu tore apart.

Yeah, it's one of those things where it's difficult to actually get reliable results. Who's going to be honest about it? How many will know what they'll do? I know people rape others in time of war, so it's certain that some would. I took your statement to be too much of a generalisation, but it seems that was not your intention. I'd hope those who 'would' are the minority, but I know the world isn't as innocent as we'd like it to be.

Quote
If you look back at when I brought in the word "rape", I was trying to show that I and most people don't approve of it. I was trying to argue why I don't look down upon a harmless(on its own) evolutionary trait like "arousal".

Fair enough, I don't look down upon it either (I just don't find it's an important one in a relationship, as least for me, but to each his own), heck I'm sure there are many people out there with 'rape' fantasies, but simply do not act on it because they know it's something they shouldn't do. Many of us have fantasies we wouldn't act upon, it's just a case of whether or not you act on it and I think we're in agreement there. In Freudian psychology, it's the only id, ego and super ego thing.

Quote
Once again, I am with you on that. I just think that the evidence is overwhelming that men are hornier than women.

Statistically speaking, I think I'd say it's probably true. On an individual level, as always, I think it depends.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: rickymooston on July 05, 2012, 02:15:43 AM
<snip>

joebbowers, this may surprise you, but not everyone is exactly like you think they are. In fact, I'm willing to bet nobody is exactly like you think they are... except you. Don't project your insecurities, flaws and mental illnesses (if you claim that homosexuality an illness, then I can damn well extend that to your sexual orientation as well) onto the rest of us.

I've never had sex, in spite of several opportunities to do so. Sex to me is just another way to prove to someone that you love them, akin to a gift or a date. It's supposed to make the other person feel good.
You, however, seem to be hormonally stuck at puberty and evolutionary stuck at ape, so you still think sex is for reproduction and pleasure. Grow up.

Sex is for re-roduction. That is its purpose. The love bond is also geared towardsreproduction
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 05, 2012, 02:16:58 AM
to me

Sex is for re-roduction. That is its purpose. The love bond is also geared towardsreproduction
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: rickymooston on July 05, 2012, 02:35:56 AM
to me

Sex is for re-roduction. That is its purpose. The love bond is also geared towardsreproduction

Its a biological process. Sex in you evolved.

Now. You certainly are free to "make it meaningful" and in fact that also comes from our social and family instincts.

Love is implemented by a chemical called oxytocerin.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 05, 2012, 05:40:24 AM
Its a biological process. Sex in you evolved.

Your point being?

Love is implemented by a chemical called oxytocerin.

Pretty sure you mean oxytocin.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on July 07, 2012, 06:01:02 AM
Quote
When asked about the number of opposite sex partners they had had altogether in their life so far, men reported a mean of 9.3 female sexual partners, while women reported a lower number, a mean of 4.7 male sexual partners.

This cannot be correct, because each coupling involves one man and one woman, regardless of their identity. So the average should be the same for each sex.

e.g. there is a population of five men and five women; four of the women remain virgins, the fifth couples with each of the five men. The average number of couplings per gender is one, for men and women.

Ok there's something wrong with that obviously, but I can't figure out how to explain it. I understand what you mean, but by your math the average would always be one and that would make it mathmatically meaningless to conduct any survey about sexual partners as the average would always be one. I'm sure the smart scientists thought of that somehow to get their average, but I'm not sure how. Probably something about median average as opposed to a simple mean average.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: naemhni on July 07, 2012, 07:26:12 AM
The sex-drive argument reminds me of the surveys which state that on average, men have more sexual partners than women. There was one in the UK (http://www.ic.nhs.uk/webfiles/publications/003_Health_Lifestyles/HSE2010_REPORT/HSE2010_Ch6_Sexual_health.pdf) last December (section 6.3.1):

Quote
When asked about the number of opposite sex partners they had had altogether in their life so far, men reported a mean of 9.3 female sexual partners, while women reported a lower number, a mean of 4.7 male sexual partners.

This cannot be correct, because each coupling involves one man and one woman, regardless of their identity. So the average should be the same for each sex.

You're assuming that each case of "sexual partnering" is a case of one man and one woman.  That's probably the most common type of sexual encounter, but it certainly isn't the only one.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timo on July 07, 2012, 04:59:58 PM
Yeah, my first few times at it was what they call a "train."  Bunch of dudes taking turns with one girl.  Good times.  Didn't give me any weird sexual issues at all.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: none on July 07, 2012, 08:23:35 PM
Yeah, my first few times at it was what they call a "train."  Bunch of dudes taking turns with one girl.  Good times.  Didn't give me any weird sexual issues at all.
yeah but was it considered sex?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timo on July 07, 2012, 08:53:11 PM
There was vaginal penetration.  Why would anyone call it anything different?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: none on July 07, 2012, 08:56:50 PM
There was vaginal penetration.  Why would anyone call it anything different?
heck you lived to tell the tale, could be worse.. my hat is off.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on July 07, 2012, 09:39:25 PM
Quote
This cannot be correct, because each coupling involves one man and one woman, regardless of their identity. So the average should be the same for each sex.

You're assuming that each case of "sexual partnering" is a case of one man and one woman.  That's probably the most common type of sexual encounter, but it certainly isn't the only one.

The study he linked only included statistics for heterosexuals, but threesomes would affect the 1:1 ratio.[1]

I think I found the problem with Gnu's math. In his example of 5 women, 5 men, each man sleeps with the same woman and the other 4 women remain virgins. He stated that the average woman has had 1 sexual partner, but while this may be mathematically correct, logically it is flawed. A logical person would instead throw out the 1 extreme anomaly and conclude that the average woman is a virgin.

However, in a reversed situation where 4 of the woman had had sex with each of the men, and only one woman had remained a virgin, it would be again logical to throw out the 1 anomaly and conclude that the average woman had had 5 sexual partners.

I read the study he linked, and 92% of the respondents were not virgins. It would be logical to conclude that the average person is not a virgin, and then give an average number of sexual partners among those sexually active respondents.
 1. And they're awesome.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on July 07, 2012, 09:45:12 PM
A lot of activity on a thread that's supposedly in the Bottomless Pit of the Dead Zone. Moderators, just because you may find a topic offensive or disagree with it, please don't impose your personal censorship on us by moving it here to discourage discussion.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timo on July 07, 2012, 10:10:46 PM
...heck you lived to tell the tale, could be worse.. my hat is off.

Keep your hat on, fam.  Honestly, the whole reason that I lost my virginity at a pretty young age was that I had friends that were more advanced.  I had no idea how to approach a girl before I was being put in a position where I was asked if I wanted to "hit it right quick."  There wasn't no skill in that.  And, to this day, when I look back at the way I used to be as a teenager, and even as a young adult, I'm always amazed by the fact that I still test clean if I'm tested for STIs.  I feel like it's either a miracle or an indictment of the whole testing system.

Also, later in life, I learned a thing or two about a thing or two so let me just say:

...but threesomes would affect the 1:1 ratio.[1]
 1. And they're awesome.

Threesomes are mostly bullshit unless you talk everything out first.  A lot of people like the idea of double teaming their partner but are uncomfortable when they're actually in a sexual situation with a person of the same gender and shit is on and popping.  And a lot of people love the idea of seeing their partner with another person and think it's the hottest thing in the world until it actually goes down and they get crazy jealous.  More specifically, there are dudes, and now I'm getting closer to home, that like the idea of seeing their girl with a black man but don't want to really grapple with the fact that part of the reason they find that whole thing so compelling is that they're kind of attracted to black men.  And that shit is awkward for everyone involved.  I've got some friends that got involved as some couple's third only to have dudes try to suck them off as part of some cuckold shit....apparently it's supposed to be about furthering the humiliation of sharing their significant other but I just can't see it like that.

Long story short, communication is key.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: none on July 08, 2012, 06:44:37 AM
...heck you lived to tell the tale, could be worse.. my hat is off.

Keep your hat on, fam.  Honestly, the whole reason that I lost my virginity at a pretty young age was that I had friends that were more advanced.  I had no idea how to approach a girl before I was being put in a position where I was asked if I wanted to "hit it right quick."  There wasn't no skill in that.  And, to this day, when I look back at the way I used to be as a teenager, and even as a young adult, I'm always amazed by the fact that I still test clean if I'm tested for STIs.  I feel like it's either a miracle or an indictment of the whole testing system.
I meant I wasn't going to argue about vaginal penetration being the qualifier for sex...
and I heard cervical cancer is spread by males anyways...
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on July 08, 2012, 08:13:33 AM
Threesomes are mostly bullshit unless you talk everything out first.

I've had more threesomes than I can remember. I would never let her have sex with another guy, but my girlfriend is a little bi-curious as I think many girls are (much more so than men), so we occasionally like to find another girl to bring home to play with us.

I agree that you should set some ground rules and make your expectations known, but if you've done that, a threesome is an amazing experience.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Gnu Ordure on July 08, 2012, 10:50:19 AM

Quote
When asked about the number of opposite sex partners they had had altogether in their life so far, men reported a mean of 9.3 female sexual partners, while women reported a lower number, a mean of 4.7 male sexual partners.
Quote
This cannot be correct, because each coupling involves one man and one woman, regardless of their identity. So the average should be the same for each sex.
You're assuming that each case of "sexual partnering" is a case of one man and one woman.  That's probably the most common type of sexual encounter, but it certainly isn't the only one.
That doesn't make any difference to the figures, PD. If Woman A sleeps with Man A, and also with Man B, that counts as two partners for the woman, one partner each for the two men. Those totals remain the same whether the sex acts were consecutive or simultaneous.

I think I found the problem with Gnu's math.
Nothing wrong with my maths.  :)

Quote
In his example of 5 women, 5 men, each man sleeps with the same woman and the other 4 women remain virgins. He stated that the average woman has had 1 sexual partner, but while this may be mathematically correct, logically it is flawed.
It's both mathetically and logically correct.

Quote
A logical person would instead throw out the 1 extreme anomaly and conclude that the average woman is a virgin.
We could indeed do that, but if we throw out the anomaly, we also have to throw out her figures from the the totals of the men who had sex with her (and we need to remove one of the men as well, to keep the populations of men and women equal). In which case, the figures would show that the average man was a virgin as well. Thus demonstrating again that the male average always equals the women's average.

Quote
However, in a reversed situation where 4 of the woman had had sex with each of the men, and only one woman had remained a virgin, it would be again logical to throw out the 1 anomaly and conclude that the average woman had had 5 sexual partners.
No; as I said above, if you're going to throw out the anomalous woman, you have to throw out one of the men as well, otherwise the populations of men and women are unequal. If you do that, then the average becomes four for each gender. Equal again.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on July 08, 2012, 08:11:05 PM
You honestly believe it's accurate to conclude that the average person has only had one sexual partner?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Gnu Ordure on July 08, 2012, 08:53:29 PM
Huh? Where did I conclude that?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on July 08, 2012, 09:58:00 PM
Huh? Where did I conclude that?

Quote
e.g. there is a population of five men and five women; four of the women remain virgins, the fifth couples with each of the five men. The average number of couplings per gender is one, for men and women.

Quote
Quote
In his example of 5 women, 5 men, each man sleeps with the same woman and the other 4 women remain virgins. He stated that the average woman has had 1 sexual partner, but while this may be mathematically correct, logically it is flawed.
It's both mathetically and logically correct.

That sure seems to be what you're saying.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Azdgari on July 08, 2012, 10:33:20 PM
Joe's right about this part, Gnu.  Let's say we have 5 men and 5 women.  Each of the 5 men sleeps with 2 women, and by the same token, each of the 5 women sleeps with 2 men.  The average would then be 2.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: nogodsforme on July 08, 2012, 10:47:04 PM
Threesomes, trains, multiples. Damn, I feel so boring and old-- the thought of an orgy just makes me tired. I may have to cancel my Wanton and Sinful Devil Worshipping Atheist card due to lack of use. Anyone want my bonus points?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Gnu Ordure on July 09, 2012, 03:46:34 PM
Huh? Where did I conclude that?

Quote
e.g. there is a population of five men and five women; four of the women remain virgins, the fifth couples with each of the five men. The average number of couplings per gender is one, for men and women.

Quote
Quote
In his example of 5 women, 5 men, each man sleeps with the same woman and the other 4 women remain virgins. He stated that the average woman has had 1 sexual partner, but while this may be mathematically correct, logically it is flawed.
It's both mathetically and logically correct.

That sure seems to be what you're saying.

Joe, that is a hypothetical example; I'm not claiming those numbers are correct in the real world. My claim isn't about the actual average number of sexual partners, but that the average number, whatever it is, must be the same for both genders.

To be more precise; in a closed population, where men and women don't have sex with people outside that population, the average number of partners must be the same for both genders.

So i gave as an example a closed population of 5 men and 5 women:

x                   o
x                   o
x                   o
x                   o
x                   o

If you draw lines between the x's and o's to represent sexual couplings, it doesn't matter how many you draw or in what combinations, the average number for each gender will be identical in each case. (e.g. Azdgari's example, which produced an average of 2 for each gender).

In the real world, the global population is closed, therefore this logic applies. The global average must be the same for men and women.

A thought experiment; imagine one could simultaneously ask every woman on earth how many sexual partners they have had. Assume also that the answers are honest and accurate. Let's say that the average turns out to be 6.64082 partners per woman.

I'm claiming that there is no need to then ask all the men the same question; the average for them must also be 6.64082. It simply cannot be different. It's the same logic using 7 billion x's and o's as it is with 10.

Therefore, any local or partial surveys which find that men have more sexual partners than women must be faulty in some way; either a sampling error or dishonest responses.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Azdgari on July 09, 2012, 07:12:22 PM
^^ I misinterpreted your point, Gnu.  You are correct.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Gnu Ordure on July 09, 2012, 09:15:36 PM
No worries, Azd, misunderstandings happen.




Over to you, Joe.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Hatter23 on July 10, 2012, 02:50:28 PM
Therefore, any local or partial surveys which find that men have more sexual partners than women must be faulty in some way; either a sampling error or dishonest responses.

Unless homosexual pairings are also included.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: nogodsforme on July 10, 2012, 04:36:06 PM
Therefore, any local or partial surveys which find that men have more sexual partners than women must be faulty in some way; either a sampling error or dishonest responses.

Unless homosexual pairings are also included.
I was wondering about that.  :-\
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Gnu Ordure on July 10, 2012, 05:35:13 PM
Therefore, any local or partial surveys which find that men have more sexual partners than women must be faulty in some way; either a sampling error or dishonest responses.

Unless homosexual pairings are also included.
Sure. My logic only applies to heterosexual relations; it doesn't apply to gays and lesbians because those populations are separate and don't interact - so the average number of partners for gays and lesbians might well be different.

Note that the survey I originally criticized asks only about opposite-sex partners.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Quesi on July 11, 2012, 09:35:41 AM
I just got around to really reading the last week or so on this thread, and I have to say I’m flabbergasted. 

So, the best overview of female sexuality that you can come up with is “boys like sex, girls not so much?” 

Really gentlemen?  Really?

Since we have already clearly digressed from the original (disturbing) op, let me clue you in to a little something that I assume most men are at least aware of.

Female sexuality is HUGE.  It is multifaceted, and complex, and nuanced.  Female sexuality is like art.  Each woman is unique, as each artist is unique,   Most women, (unlike most men) don’t just jump into sex, unless there is already some strong inspiration to do so.  For some of us, some of the time, we are just ready to go.  For most of us, most of the time, inspiration takes time.  It takes sensory and emotional input.  And for each of us, the unique combination of input is different.  For some, the emotional overrides the sensory.  For others, certain sights or smells or motions or words or touches, in the right combination, are the key.

And like art, female sexuality grows and becomes more complex with time and practice.  There is much dispute (in the world of science and psychology and sociology) about the female sexual peak, but I am in the camp that believes that women in their 30’s are at the peak of their sexuality.  I see it in (and talk about it with) many of my friends in their 30’s.  And I certainly lived through it myself in my 30’s.   For many of us, at that time in our lives, those little, seconds-long, localized orgasms of our (late?) teens and twenties (if we were lucky enough to have them back then) have evolved into enormous, full body events that can ebb and fall for 2, 5, 10 minutes.  Or even longer.  If we are lucky.  Each of us is so different.  And each sexual encounter is different from the one before.  What inspired us last weekend might not work this evening. 

I am old enough that I remember the old “clitoral simulation” vs “g spot” debate.  Women fell into different camps, and vehemently argued in favor of one or another.  Some of us spent our early sexual years searching for this g spot that others were talking about, convinced that it was a single, elusive place inside of us, that others had found in themselves, but which we were unable to locate.  But the women who claimed to have found the g spot, often described it so differently from other women who claimed to have found it, led many to believe it was a myth.  But by the time I hit my 30’s, something really different started to happen.  For me, it wasn’t a spot.  It was a region.  A huge region that had seemed to not exist previously.  Huge. 

As recently as the early 1990’s, the actual size of the internal clitoris was finally “discovered.”  And it wasn’t until 3 years ago that science got around to creating a 3D image of the internal clitoris.  There is so much that we don’t even know yet.  There is so much that we don’t even have the vocabulary to discuss and explore. 


http://youtu.be/BIbbZ37A7RQ 

http://blog.museumofsex.com/the-internal-clitoris/

So gentlemen.  Stop knocking on doors hoping to get laid.  Tongue kiss, squeeze left nipple, penetrate, might be good enough for you.  But it is not good enough for us.  Be art aficionados.  Be muses.  And don’t expect Miro to be da Vinci or Cezanne or Rivera.  Each of us is really different.  And for us, each sexual encounter has the potential to be a great piece of art, unique from any that has ever existed before.  Or perhaps, a variation on a theme which we are currently exploring.   Communicate.  Look for cues.  And stop expecting your best sex ever to come from a 17 year old.  And do not, for a minute, treat a 35 year old the way you treated a 17 year old when you were 17.  Your sexuality may not have evolved much over the years.  But hers has. 
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: nogodsforme on July 11, 2012, 04:24:39 PM
^^^^^Damn effin straight.

Why do so many men behave sexually as if age 17 is the beginning and the end of everything? Who knows as much about their bodies and minds and emotions at 17 as at 27, 37, or 47? As far as I am concerned, things have only gotten better as I have gotten older.

And the other thing is, men seem to be into counting things; numbers of partners, numbers of encounters, numbers of orgasms. Is it really so cut and dried for men that one always equals one equals one? Is it true that for men there is no such thing as bad sex? It is not really that mechanical, is it?

As a female of a mature age, one that is very good is far superior to five that are mediocre. (No matter how many Asian girls are involved.)
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: One Above All on July 11, 2012, 04:38:11 PM
You know, to me, Quesi's post seems to imply (I'd go so far as to say infer) that men aren't as "complex" as women when it comes to sex, based on nothing but stereotypes. The stereotypical idiot who can only think about sex 24/7 and keeps a scoreboard is a myth.
If you want to claim that the totality or the majority of men and/or women act in a certain way, you literally have nothing to go on. No study into that matter will account for either gender lying about their sexual encounters (given social conditioning, I believe men would be prone to exaggerate, whereas women would be prone to the opposite) or even lying about themselves (intentionally or otherwise).
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Gnu Ordure on July 11, 2012, 05:33:26 PM
There is much dispute (in the world of science and psychology and sociology) about the female sexual peak, but I am in the camp that believes that women in their 30’s are at the peak of their sexuality. 
And the other thing is, men seem to be into counting things; numbers of partners, numbers of encounters, numbers of orgasms.
Well, Quesi introduced the idea of a peak; and I'm not sure what she means by that; so some kind of quantification would be welcome.

There seem to be different kinds of sexual prime; it can be considered in terms of fertility, emotional connexion and physical pleasure.

The fertility scale is well-defined; a man's sperm is healthiest when he's 18; a woman has to contribute not only a healthy egg, but a healthy body in which to grow it. So a woman is considered most fertile at 24.

Learning about sex as an emotional connexion should apply equally to both sexes. Why not?

As regards physical pleasure, I'm not sure I agree with Quesi's analysis; I understand that female sexuality is more complex than men's, but I don't see why it takes a decade or more for you to optimize the process.

On the other hand, the average man reaches orgasm in four minutes of intercourse; the average woman, eleven minutes. Maybe that has something to do with it?
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Timtheskeptic on July 11, 2012, 06:41:17 PM
^^^^^Damn effin straight.

Why do so many men behave sexually as if age 17 is the beginning and the end of everything? Who knows as much about their bodies and minds and emotions at 17 as at 27, 37, or 47? As far as I am concerned, things have only gotten better as I have gotten older.

And the other thing is, men seem to be into counting things; numbers of partners, numbers of encounters, numbers of orgasms. Is it really so cut and dried for men that one always equals one equals one? Is it true that for men there is no such thing as bad sex? It is not really that mechanical, is it?

As a female of a mature age, one that is very good is far superior to five that are mediocre. (No matter how many Asian girls are involved.)

I agree. The think that also ticks the bejesus out of me was expectation of losing your virginity before 20! Seriously! This is not a sport and no one is a loser for being a virgin over 20! Also, everything Quesi said is right on! It's so unbelievable that Joey thinks "Men want such, girls not so much." I think, unless i'm wrong, it's more like this; Some boys thinks sex is a sport, girls sees sex as something bit more, some adult men thinks sex is better at younger age (Me excluded) adult women sees sex as something a bit more.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on July 11, 2012, 07:55:33 PM
I guess according to Quesi I'm a strange woman. No offense Quesi but it seems like a lot of your recent post are coming off as all inclusive to the inner workings of women but you couldn't be further off IMO. Maybe I'm not the average women and/or some kinda freak who doesn't experience being a women in the same way every other women does. IDK but when you state things in such a matter of fact way it seems though, intentionally or not, you are implying that any women who doesn't feel this way is the exception. It's not just this thread but the pedophilia thread too. I'm not done reading it yet, I'm about 1/2 way through so I hope you changed your stance on a few things but if not I will address those there.

Any ways. Not all women's sexuality is some complicated puzzle that has to be solved. Not all women are sexual artist who paint their masterpieces in bed. It seems like according to you I've allowed men and society to brainwash me in to some unhealthy version of what sex should mean to me and/or what I find sexy. But I don't think that's the case.

Sex is a means to an end. When I wanted a baby I had more sex. Not because I was aroused but because my goal was to procreate. There was nothing extraordinarily romantic, artistic, beautiful, or loving about it. It was more "Wham bam thankyou mam." I actually felt more like a teller at an ATM than a lover. After two years of this method I quit trying. Ironically enough my child was eventually conceived on Valentines Day in a more romantic atmosphere.

But to be honest, even that day was an exception to the rule. I don't need to have sex, I actually have a rather low sex drive. So when I am aroused I don't waste time with foreplay, or sending signals, or whatever most other women appear to do. I pretty much just make my intentions be known, offer sex, and if my body so desires get off. There's nothing magical about it. There's no extra learnin' I need a man to do. No special training. I don't need a man to have a 4 year degree in women's sexual pleasure to get me off.

As I said I see sex as a means to an end. Sometimes that end is an orgasm and sometimes that end is a procreation. Occasionally that end is being selfless and offering myself to my partner. But very rarely is it an emotional sexual masterpiece.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Maybe I've not hit my "peak" yet. Or maybe I really am just the lone women who doesn't stand up to the Quesi 101 lesson to men. But for the record let it be known men, that not all women are that complicated. IDK how many other women out there share the same experience as me because I don't often discuss such things, but I just couldn't sit back and not offer an alternative womanly prospective.

To be honest I'm more like the stereotypical female mentioned in this thread by men than I am the woman Quesi portrays. But I'm not ashamed of that. I'm very well aware of my emotional disconnect to sex, low sex drive, and the only "peak" I ever hit was when my biological clock started ticking.[1]

Any ways, I'm sorry for my blunt tone.. I honestly have taken offense to the way women have been portrayed here. It comes off as insulting to anyone who doesn't fit the mold. And I feel like it sends the wrong message to men, who now are trying to figure out how to speak Venetian.

Moral of the story is men and women need to communicate their sexual preferences, needs, desires, etc to their partners. It doesn't really matter what yours are unless your partner is incapable of accepting you for who you are. So if your a woman who's not like me kudos to you, but if you need your man to be more educated about your g-spot or clitoris needs tell him. Don't expect him to be able to speak Venetian with out offering him the copy of your programming guide.
 1. For the record I broke that damn thing!
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: HAL on July 11, 2012, 08:04:11 PM
Female sexuality is like art. 

Now I know what's wrong - I'm no artist.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on July 11, 2012, 08:05:55 PM
As regards physical pleasure, I'm not sure I agree with Quesi's analysis; I understand that female sexuality is more complex than men's, but I don't see why it takes a decade or more for you to optimize the process.

On the other hand, the average man reaches orgasm in four minutes of intercourse; the average woman, eleven minutes. Maybe that has something to do with it?

It's not all the complex from where I'm sitting. I'm 27 years old and if I have another decade left to figure it out then I will prob lose interest. I've got all the children I want, and 4 minutes is okay for me 75% of the time and when it's not I'm not opposed to flying solo. Sex is really not that high on my priority list, nor does it take fireworks and atom splitting for me to enjoy sex.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on July 11, 2012, 08:07:03 PM
Now I know what's wrong - I'm no artist.

Your train set says otherwise. If that's not a masterpiece than IDK what is.
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Quesi on July 11, 2012, 09:11:14 PM
@ OAA – I do believe that female sexuality is more complex than male sexuality on a number of levels.  First of all, women (in general) are not aroused as quickly as men (in general.)  The factors that lead to women’s arousal are more complex.  A man may look at an arousing photo, get an erection, and be ready for intercourse.  Now.  Very few women can go from 0 to now in a few minutes.

Secondly, the female orgasm is much more complex than the male orgasm.  Men get an erection, get stimulation, ejaculate, and that is the orgasm.  For women, a sexual act does not necessarily result in orgasm.  There are women who have regular sexual relations, give birth to multiple children, and never experience an orgasm.  There are women who only have orgasms during manual or oral stimulation, (or with a vibrator) but not during intercourse.  Male orgasms are necessary for procreation.  Female orgasms are not. 

@Gnu & OAA I presented the “sexual peak in the 30’s” as a theory, which has most certainly been the subject of dispute.  The Kinsey Report was the first to state that women’s masturbation rate and orgasm rate increased in their 30’s.  And I’m pretty sure the Hite Report cited the same thing, but it has been literally decades since I read it and a quick google on it offered up nothing of any interest. 

And please understand that these two major behavioral studies, which are cited by everyone, were conducted decades before science had any understanding of the physical scope of the primary female sexual organ!  In other words, there is so little that is really known about the complexities of female sexuality, that nearly all information is anecdotal.  Those who study hormonal levels of men and women at different life stages claim the 30’s sexual peak is a myth.  But as someone who talked with many, many women about sexuality over many years, and as someone who has lived through and passed my 30’s, I embrace the belief that women’s sexual peak is in the 30’s.   I tried to find some “good, solid, rational evidence” to share, but honestly, all I found was silly stuff, arguing for and against the 30’s theory.   Some sites say 28.  Some say 40.  Here is some random stuff that I found. 

http://www.datingish.com/725818341/fact-or-myth-women-reach-sexual-prime-later/

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-sexual-peak-woman-myth-fact-2175578.html

http://www.lhj.com/relationships/marriage/sex/sexual-passages-from-the-20s-to-the-50s/?page=2

I know that I have read arguments that there is perhaps an evolutionary basis for a late sexual peak for women.  The premise is that as women who have given birth multiple times already (in caves and sandy deserts and by rainy riversides, with no epidurals), and who has probably seen a percentage of those children die already, might become increasingly hesitant to engage in sexual activity that could lead to subsequent pregnancies.  And so women who have a trait that increases their sexual desire later in their fertile years will probably produce more children, who will subsequently reproduce. 

There are all kinds of other random theories out there.  Hypotheses, really.  Many suggest that younger women are more sexually repressed, and therefore more comfortable with their sexuality later in life.  I don’t really buy that one.  Or that women in their 30’s are more likely to be in stable relationships, and therefore more sexually comfortable.  Anecdotal evidence that I’ve collected personally does not support that premise.  The theory (hypothesis) that I support the most goes back to the issue of the complexity of women’s sexuality.  For most women, orgasms are not automatic.  They are literally a learned skill, and one that improves with practice.  And nogodsforme’s post would seem to support the idea of a steady increase in sexual enjoyment.  But for me, it was a little different.  I went from delightful little rippley orgasms, that I had enjoyed for years, and then, as if someone just turned on a switch, they transformed into these huge, long, amazing experiences that seemed to exist outside of time and space.  And then, as if the switch just got turned off, my libido dropped.   

And @ Kimberly, who posted while I was writing. First of all, I’m really sorry if my post, which was written about sex for sex, not sex for family, came off as offensive to you.  That was so NOT my intention.  I actually appreciate your blunt, honest tone.   As someone who has never engaged in sex for the purposes of procreation, I really apologize for leaving out the original purpose of the act.  The burning desire to have a child, for someone who really wants to have a child, that certainly overrides the dance and the art of sex for the sake of sex.  And I know women who, when desperately wanting to become pregnant, described the act less eloquently than an ATM deposit.  I don’t know if you went so far as to take your temperature or pee on a stick to determine ovulation, but I sure as hell can’t think of a less sexy overture to sex that must take place within a certain number of hours.  There is nothing more wonderful than a wanted, loved child, and I love the fact that your youngest was conceived on a romantic valentines day encounter, rather than a dutiful attempt to conceive.  Maybe some day you’ll tell her. 

I have to say that I am awed by your maturity.  I didn’t feel grown up enough to be a mom until I was pushing 40.  You and I are wired very differently on a lot of levels.  But fortunately, neither of us has any trouble verbalizing our opinions.  And you’ll be a young empty nester, and I’ll be facing retirement and my daughter’s college education simultaneously. Now that you are done having kids, you might find that one day, a switch might just turn on for you, like it did for me.  Or you might find a steady increase, like nogodsforme wrote about.  And if you are 27 right now, I kind of really think the best sex in your life is still to come.  Especially now that the pressure of having kids is over.  Send me an email in 10 years, and let me know if I was dead wrong? 
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Kimberly on July 11, 2012, 10:03:28 PM
Thanks for the response Quesi. I don't anticipate that happening but if it does it will be a shock to me. Even with out sex I'm not an overly physical and touchy feely person. I actually find most human physical actions uncomfortable. I don't like hugging anyone out of household other than my grandma. Love to me is not expressed physically but verbally, written or through art. I would find it strange if I woke up at 30 and decided to start investing more time and emotions in to sex. I often think, aside from the biological clock that I broke, I was created entirely a-sexual. I did read the rest of your other response and perhaps the main problem is I'm one of those women who don't have a vaginal orgasm. So sex it'self, unless procreating is pointless. (Especially since it's not an emotional bond for me.)
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Mr. Blackwell on July 11, 2012, 10:03:46 PM
There might be something to the theory of a woman's sexual peak occurring during her 30's.  Of course the variables and physiology are going to be different for everybody.

 I have been married for 10 years now and my wife is turning 31 this year. We have three children. Two of which were....accidental and one which was an actual attempt. All of which are completely wanted.

With our second child we tried and tried and tried and tried and it became a tedious task. Sucked the joy right out of sex for both of us.

Sometime last year my wife experienced her first orgasm and our sexual encounters have become much much more exciting.

So from personal experience I pretty much completely agree with Quesi on this.

Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: Gnu Ordure on July 12, 2012, 12:20:12 PM
As regards physical pleasure, I'm not sure I agree with Quesi's analysis; I understand that female sexuality is more complex than men's, but I don't see why it takes a decade or more for you to optimize the process.

On the other hand, the average man reaches orgasm in four minutes of intercourse; the average woman, eleven minutes. Maybe that has something to do with it?

It's not all the complex from where I'm sitting.
But it's stilll more complex. There's the vaginal/clitoral orgasm distinction (which men don't have), there's the mysterious G-Spot (which men don't have) and more importantly many women find it very difficult to achieve orgasm and take years learning how to have one (which men definitely don't have). That implies greater complexity to me... 
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: joebbowers on July 13, 2012, 04:29:57 AM
I have been married for 10 years now and my wife is turning 31 this year.
<snip>
Sometime last year my wife experienced her first orgasm and our sexual encounters have become much much more exciting.

TIL Mr. Blackwell is a terrible lover.  ;)
Title: Re: Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness
Post by: nogodsforme on July 14, 2012, 05:56:40 PM
I have been married for 10 years now and my wife is turning 31 this year.
<snip>
Sometime last year my wife experienced her first orgasm and our sexual encounters have become much much more exciting.

TIL Mr. Blackwell is a terrible lover.  ;)

But a wonderful student! Right, Mr B? ;)