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Main Discussion Zone => Why Won't God Heal Amputees? => Topic started by: SOI on March 13, 2011, 11:40:06 PM

Title: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 13, 2011, 11:40:06 PM
Why didn't God ever reveal himself?

Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Astreja on March 13, 2011, 11:50:25 PM
Why didn't God ever reveal himself?
Possibly because "God" is nonexistent.

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Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?
Also possibly because "God" is nonexistent.  I advise seeking justice through conventional human channels.

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What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!
Rewards?  Life itself.

And in My opinion, the world is not "full of" injustice, hatred and death; those are just a few of the things that go on here.  If you want the good, seek and practice the good.

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What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???
Probably no more than a myth.  A promise of eternal life is a good way to attract followers, but it remains to be seen if eternal life is even possible.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Asmoday on March 13, 2011, 11:58:10 PM
Why didn't God ever reveal himself?
Because he does not exist. Just like any other god ever invented by humans.

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Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?
See answer above.

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What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!
What a nasty world you live in.

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What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God?
Jesus... Oh, you mean that avatar of your God according to your storybook the bible. That person for whose existence there is not a single shred of evidence.

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Promising eternal life to those who hear him???
You know you are being conned if you ask somebody why you should do what they want you to do and their answer is that they promise you more of life once you are dead.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Azdgari on March 14, 2011, 12:02:11 AM
Why didn't God ever reveal himself?

Surely you don't need to reveal yourself to yourself, sir/madame.  "God" is self-generated.  If your inner god isn't responding to you, then perhaps you should do some inner searching.

Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

Maybe you're just lazy.  Usually, a theist's inner self-god will take revenge upon his or her enemies by affecting the behaviour of the theist in question.  That only works if the theist is willing to get up off of his or her butt to do so.

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

Your reward is whatever you value that actually ends up happening.

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

Which Jesus?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: wright on March 14, 2011, 12:42:11 AM
Welcome, SOI.

Why didn't God ever reveal himself?

Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???



If you are sincerely struggling with these questions, you have my sympathies. When I first lost my faith (after nearly 15 years as identifying myself as a Christian), I also felt lost, vulnerable and foolish. For those of us who arrive at atheism after years if not decades as believers in god/s, realizing we no longer have the comfort of religious faith is unnerving.

But it can also be liberating. Though I'd been wrong about god existing, I realized I was also wrong about hell and eternal punishment. Those terrifying, grotesque fairy tales in the Bible became just Bronze-Age tribal mythology, not the literal / metaphorical history of the universe. I was responsible for my own success and failure, not the pawn of a supernatural being.

In short, it is quite possible to live a happy and fulfilling life as an atheist. There are many regulars here who have done so for decades. There are also a few sincere and thoughtful theists.

There are parents, spouses, singles, those who work at home and those who post from their offices. All in all, folks with a wide range of experiences and circumstances, glad to debate, discuss and advise. Feel free to make use of the resources here.

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Aaron123 on March 14, 2011, 01:11:49 AM
Why didn't God ever reveal himself?

Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

Exactly why are you asking these questions?  Without knowing where you're coming from, it's hard to figure out what the attitude behind them are.  Are you losing your faith and struggling with these questions?  Or are you just trying to see what type of answers we'll give?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: One Above All on March 14, 2011, 03:40:54 AM
My preacher[1]&troll[2] senses are tingling but I've been wrong before. So I'll answer your questions

Why didn't God ever reveal himself?

Assuming you mean the god of the Bible with multiple personalities:
In the stories, he reveals himself all the time in extremely visible ways. However, since that's clearly not happening, people claim "mysterious ways". The only real answer, taking in account the promises made in the Bible that describe said deity, is that said deity does not exist

Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

See above

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

Everything dies. To be alive means you WILL die eventually

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

If he existed, probably just a crackpot. We have them now too, you know
 1. I'm sure about this one, seeing the other posts made by SOI
 2. Not so sure about this one
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: plethora on March 14, 2011, 06:43:59 AM
Why didn't God ever reveal himself?

Same reason Santa Claus never revealed himself to you. He doesn't exist.

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Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

He doesn't exist. Note, we do have a legal justice system. Use that instead.

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What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

You need to understand that this universe does not exist for any particular purpose. It is purposeless. So there's nothing in it for you or any of us. There is no reward or punishment. This is not necessarily a bad thing though.

We get to assign value to our lives ourselves. If you had never been alive it wouldn't make a difference.... but you are alive. Appreciate the fact that you are alive and have a chance to experience happiness, joy, love, laughter as well as anger, sadness and pain. You have the priveledge of living the complete conscious experience that is your life.

Yes, there is injustice and hatred in the world, there is also the exact opposite. There is both good and evil in the world. Try to do good and experience good as much as you can.

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What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

Jesus, as portrayed in the bible, is a mythical character. His life is nothing but legend.

Anybody who is normal doesn't want to die. It's in our instincts to survive. The realization that we are mortal is scary for some. A hope... a promise of eternal life is very tempting. So people tend to fall for it.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Vivisectus on March 14, 2011, 07:52:51 AM
We human beings are marvelous creatures. We invent things like love, justice, beauty and a whole range of other concepts even though we are fragile little bags of water held up by brittle calcium. With oblivion before and behind us, we create, and hope, and dream, and love. To be a decent human being is a heroic task, and a noble one.

When I think about it, this gives me all the meaning and fulfillment I need. I believe in people. While we often get things wrong and are capable of enormous cruelty, our cumulative achievements slowly enable us to remove more and more suffering from our fellow human beings.

If you think this is not happening, then consider your family history. I have looked at mine - a hundred and fifty years ago my ancestors were dirt-farmers in Holland. They were poor folk, poorly nourished and forced to work under conditions we would not find bearable today. They bore child after child, and buried about 1 out of every 3 children. In some families it was especially bad - child after child died before it reached the age of 4. Sometimes they did not even bother to change the name between children, and buried 3 children in a row, all with the same name. I cannot even imagine such hardship. We have now dealt with that - thanks to modern scientific medicine, childhood diseases are no longer a continual source of grief everywhere and we have hopes that one day, it will be like this all over the world.

We will keep improving things if we keep our eye on the price, and do not expect that we already know everything that is worth knowing. It was not gods will that those children died. They died as a result of our ignorance. It is our duty to make sure that we learn, so that we may prevent suffering because of ignorance.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: screwtape on March 14, 2011, 08:22:24 AM

Hi SOI

As a board moderator let me welcome you to the forum.


Why didn't God ever reveal himself?

Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

If this OP is a set up for you to launch into a sermon, think again.  Please read the Rules (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17005.0.html).  I also recommend you read the Posting Guide (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17230.0.html).   Any claims you make are expected to be verifiable and backed up with evidence.  And by evidence I do not mean quotes from the bible.  Please let's get off on the right foot and do not make this a problem.  Thanks and happy posting

your affectionate uncle
Screwtape
 
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Graybeard on March 14, 2011, 08:40:56 AM
Let me give you some answers
Why didn't God ever reveal himself?
But He does!!!eleventy!!! You just have to look around you... Pine Cones, eh? How do they work? The banana - proof of God!

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Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?
You have chosen the wrong Enemies and one of them is God... nothing good will come of this.

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What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!
In return for being a godbotherer all your days and pissing people off, you get this deal:- You die. Then there is a bit where you come back to life and sit with Jesus forever and ever. (Terms and conditions apply, your experience may vary. Everlasting life is not confirmed as no one has come back from the dead, it is a biblical offence to try to seek the dead to ask them about it.)

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What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???
I do that too! Believe in me and you will not only have eternal life but this wonderful alarm-clock and coffee maker! But that is not all! I'm going send you a critical thinking book!

I hope this helps
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Asmoday on March 14, 2011, 08:55:44 AM
Believe in me and you will not only have eternal life but this wonderful alarm-clock and coffee maker! But that is not all! I'm going send you a critical thinking book!
That sounds great!

This morning I've already sacrificed a pickled cucumber in your name. Afterward I spotted your face on a cornflake!
Coincidence? I think not.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 09:39:58 AM

Hi SOI

As a board moderator let me welcome you to the forum.


Why didn't God ever reveal himself?

Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

If this OP is a set up for you to launch into a sermon, think again.  Please read the Rules (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17005.0.html).  I also recommend you read the Posting Guide (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17230.0.html).   Any claims you make are expected to be verifiable and backed up with evidence.  And by evidence I do not mean quotes from the bible.  Please let's get off on the right foot and do not make this a problem.  Thanks and happy posting

your affectionate uncle
Screwtape



Okay proof.

1. You say, prove your God and do not use Bible quotes, even though they profess your "nature."

2. I read in a post someone telling me to go through "human channels" (I'm assuming they mean the judicial system)  when claimed that I live in a world FULL of injustice. For anyone to say otherwise, lies.

3. Verifiable truth? What if centuries ago, words were spoken that said people would speak in harmful ways toward the Annointed One? This has not come to pass, has it? But these prophecies don't matter to you because you will go from bad to worse and and refuse to acknowledge the One God.

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Aaron123 on March 14, 2011, 09:47:41 AM
Okay proof.

1. You say, prove your God and do not use Bible quotes, even though they profess your "nature."

I'm unclear what you're trying to say here.


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3. Verifiable truth? What if centuries ago, words were spoken that said people would speak in harmful ways toward the Annointed One? This has not come to pass, has it? But these prophecies don't matter to you because you will go from bad to worse and and refuse to acknowledge the One God.

What are you trying to say here?  At best, it sounds like some badly worded preaching.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Vivisectus on March 14, 2011, 09:47:55 AM
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1. You say, prove your God and do not use Bible quotes, even though they profess your "nature."

Please support your claim. I have no idea what you are trying to say - can you clarify?

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2. I read in a post someone telling me to go through "human channels" (I'm assuming they mean the judicial system)  when claimed that I live in a world FULL of injustice. For anyone to say otherwise, lies.

Can you explain what you mean by that? There is injustice in the world, yes. We, as human beings, try to deal with that by advocating justice. Sometimes we are successful, sometimes we are not.

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3. Verifiable truth? What if centuries ago, words were spoken that said people would speak in harmful ways toward the Annointed One? This has not come to pass, has it? But these prophecies don't matter to you because you will go from bad to worse and and refuse to acknowledge the One God.

Soooo... If I write a book that says "Some Christians will not like this" and then, years later when it is published, this indeed happens it counts as prophecy? And I am actually being more specific than the one you seem to invoke just here...
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: plethora on March 14, 2011, 09:50:26 AM
Okay proof.

Yay! Finally someone with proof!

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1. You say, prove your God and do not use Bible quotes, even though they profess your "nature."

Uh ... who said all that? ...

You are claiming that a god exists... you need to prove that it does. The bible as a source does not live up to the scientific standard of proof.

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2. I read in a post someone telling me to go through "human channels" (I'm assuming they mean the judicial system)  when claimed that I live in a world FULL of injustice. For anyone to say otherwise, lies.

Uh ... I said there is injustice in the world. I also said there were instances of justice. Both exist. There's good and evil. You calling me a liar?

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3. Verifiable truth? What if centuries ago, words were spoken that said people would speak in harmful ways toward the Annointed One? This has not come to pass, has it? But these prophecies don't matter to you because you will go from bad to worse and and refuse to acknowledge the One God.

Oh-kay ... so the proof you promised us at the beginning of your post? I suppose that was a lie.

Keep it coming ... you're making your religion and your fellow theists look so good. You're doing your lord so many favors by spewing nonsensical babble to us in this fashion.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Jim on March 14, 2011, 09:53:42 AM
God must be desperate, using folks like SOI who pronounce these confusing, weak-ass arguments to convey his garbled message.  Pitifully lame.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 14, 2011, 10:19:43 AM
God must be desperate, using folks like SOI who pronounce these confusing, weak-ass arguments to convey his garbled message.  Pitifully lame.

He also sent people like NTS, AlexBP, and University Pastor. Think what that means.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 10:45:37 AM
God must be desperate, using folks like SOI who pronounce these confusing, weak-ass arguments to convey his garbled message.  Pitifully lame.



By "nature" I mean the hatred being directed here.

Do you "believe" that you can come to the truth of moralities on your own? Many will say yes, immediately, without pondering the question.

What laws do you proclaim/live by? Laws of morality which have governed us for centuries, one which we are disposing of more and more each moment.

But no One (nobody) warned us?? Bad to worse, bad to worse.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 14, 2011, 10:50:37 AM
God must be desperate, using folks like SOI who pronounce these confusing, weak-ass arguments to convey his garbled message.  Pitifully lame.



By "nature" I mean the hatred being directed here.

Do you "believe" that you can come to the truth of moralities on your own? Many will say yes, immediately, without pondering the question.

What laws do you proclaim/live by? Laws of morality which have governed us for centuries, one which we are disposing of more and more each moment.

But no One (nobody) warned us?? Bad to worse, bad to worse.

No ones directing any hatred here. There's some mockery and probably a lot of pity, but no hatred.

You do realize that religion can't tell you the "truth of moralities", right? Religion has no evidence and no proof to back it up. Hence it can never actually be shown to be true. At best it can only be considered someones opinion. Unless, of course, you have this proof to offer us?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: jedweber on March 14, 2011, 11:02:30 AM
2. I read in a post someone telling me to go through "human channels" (I'm assuming they mean the judicial system)  when claimed that I live in a world FULL of injustice. For anyone to say otherwise, lies.

Deferring justice to a hoped-for afterlife does nothing to promote justice in the real world. If anything, it allows injustice to flourish. The belief that God will punish all wrongdoers after they die may be comforting, but could also lead to being passive or complacent about stopping them here and now.   

If you are wrong about the existence or nature of God, then waiting for divine justice is nothing but an empty delusion. But even if God does exist, what he may or may not do is completely beyond our control. All we can do is seek justice to the best of our ability in this world.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: naemhni on March 14, 2011, 11:07:43 AM
By "nature" I mean the hatred being directed here.

We're not hating on you.  We're simply being critical of your beliefs, as we've done with many other theists who have come here before.  Admittedly, we have a tendency to sneer at such beliefs, but it's kind of hard to keep the impulse under control when those beliefs are so "sneerable".  It's hard to have respect for people who believe in talking snakes and dead people coming back to life.

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Do you "believe" that you can come to the truth of moralities on your own? Many will say yes, immediately, without pondering the question.

And many others will say yes, immediately, after having pondered the question at length, as many of us here have.  For my own part, I majored in philosophy.  My main interest was the ontological problem, but I also ended up studying ethics quite extensively (necessary for any philosophy major).  I arrived at an objective and proper system of ethics toward the end of my studies.  (By the way, it doesn't involve killing people who work on Sundays.)

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What laws do you proclaim/live by? Laws of morality which have governed us for centuries, one which we are disposing of more and more each moment.

This is the debating technique known as "hypophora", or more commonly, "Monopolizing the Question".  It won't work here.

The laws that I "proclaim/live by" are a synthesis of Kant's "ends/means" distinction and a Schopenhauerian recognition of the interconnectedness of all things and people.  This system rejects as unethical almost every single law and principle laid down by Yahweh (and, to a lesser extent, those laid down by Jesus).  I don't think that's a coincidence, either.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: plethora on March 14, 2011, 11:10:37 AM
By "nature" I mean the hatred being directed here.

What hatred? I don't hate you. Nobody said they hate you. We don't hate anyone. You're the only one mentioning hatred here.

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Do you "believe" that you can come to the truth of moralities on your own? Many will say yes, immediately, without pondering the question.

When you say "truth of moralities" I think you mean objective morality. There is no such thing. Morality is subjective. We each have our own set of moral values. We do not need a god to exist to have morality.

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What laws do you proclaim/live by? Laws of morality which have governed us for centuries, one which we are disposing of more and more each moment.

I obey the laws of the country I live in. They are in place to make sure our society functions. These laws are not absolute and are continually improved. For example, slavery is no longer legal when it used to be.

You agree that slavery is bad right? Even though the bible supports it.

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But no One (nobody) warned us?? Bad to worse, bad to worse.

Who warned us of what exactly? A threat? Be specific instead of rambling incoherently.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: screwtape on March 14, 2011, 11:17:23 AM

Hi SOI


Okay proof.

I did not say "proof".  I said "evidence".

1. You say, prove your God and do not use Bible quotes, even though they profess your "nature."

Using the bible to show the bible is true is going to be a hard sell to anyone here and is generally considered to be preaching.  Using outside sources to show the bible is true is what we are looking for.

This has not come to pass, has it? But these prophecies don't matter to you because you will go from bad to worse and and refuse to acknowledge the One God.

By "nature" I mean the hatred being directed here.

This is what I mean about starting off on the right foot.  You are not doing it.  You are getting all judgmental, self-righteous and casting stones when I just asked you to provide a little evidence.  SOI, please take a breath and then post as if you were having a conversation at the grocery story with a stranger.  You would be civil and polite in that situation, right?     

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Aaron123 on March 14, 2011, 11:18:59 AM
By "nature" I mean the hatred being directed here.

What hatred?  Sounds like you're projecting.

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Do you "believe" that you can come to the truth of moralities on your own? Many will say yes, immediately, without pondering the question.


What do you mean by "truth of moralities"?


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What laws do you proclaim/live by?  Laws of morality which have governed us for centuries, one which we are disposing of more and more each moment.

Again; what does this mean?


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But no One (nobody) warned us?? Bad to worse, bad to worse.

And this makes even less sense than the rest of your argument.

If you're trying to argue for god, you're doing a terrible job of it.  Try making sense next time.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 11:29:02 AM

Hi SOI


Okay proof.

I did not say "proof".  I said "evidence".

1. You say, prove your God and do not use Bible quotes, even though they profess your "nature."

Using the bible to show the bible is true is going to be a hard sell to anyone here and is generally considered to be preaching.  Using outside sources to show the bible is true is what we are looking for.

This has not come to pass, has it? But these prophecies don't matter to you because you will go from bad to worse and and refuse to acknowledge the One God.

By "nature" I mean the hatred being directed here.

This is what I mean about starting off on the right foot.  You are not doing it.  You are getting all judgmental, self-righteous and casting stones when I just asked you to provide a little evidence.  SOI, please take a breath and then post as if you were having a conversation at the grocery story with a stranger.  You would be civil and polite in that situation, right?   

You will remove me from these message boards, and why?

For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I speak to all who hear this way, grocery store or not.

The Kingdom of God has come near you and you have rejected it! Jerusalem, you who stone her prophets!
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: blue on March 14, 2011, 11:33:38 AM
So you don't have evidence then? Just "Christianese" catch phrases?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 14, 2011, 11:34:03 AM
You will remove me from these message boards, and why?

For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I speak to all who hear this way, grocery store or not.

The Kingdom of God has come near you and you have rejected it! Jerusalem, you who stone her prophets!

So you act like this in public as well?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: voodoo child on March 14, 2011, 11:35:39 AM
Every time there's a natural disaster the tinfoil hat group gathers.  that's the sign that Jesus is showing up, its really sad.  I see the signs, I see the signs! I think the only sign christians see in their mind, Is Wishful thinking. the biggest byproduct of reading the bible, sore knees and a weird case of dementia. 

Back to your regularly scheduled programming, good luck SOI, you have some big minds to tackle here.         



Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Zankuu on March 14, 2011, 11:35:46 AM
SOI, so basically you want to be a martyr for your faith, and by not agreeing to adhere to forum rules you'll happily confirm your preconception that atheists want to silence you, right?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 11:37:15 AM
SOI, so basically you want to be a martyr for your faith, and by not agreeing to adhere to forum rules you'll happily confirm your preconception that atheists want to silence you, right?


If that is not what happens, then how would I be wrong?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Zankuu on March 14, 2011, 11:43:09 AM
If that is not what happens, then how would I be wrong?

If you mean you'll be banned for refusing to follow forum rules, you're right - that will absolutely happen. But that happens regardless of your position on the supernatural. So it's your right to defy the forum policies, but your banning won't be due to you being a Christian or theist.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 14, 2011, 11:43:48 AM

If that is not what happens, then how would I be wrong?

So, just to be clear here. If you come in ranting like a lunatic, making no sense, ignoring discussion, randomly preaching, and flagrantly disobeying the rules that you agreed to adhere to, and you are then banned this is somehow proof of an atheist agenda to silence you?

I'm curious, exactly what colour is the sky in your world? It must be nice to live in a world where you can behave however you want and blame it on others.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 11:48:10 AM

If that is not what happens, then how would I be wrong?

So, just to be clear here. If you come in ranting like a lunatic, making no sense, ignoring discussion, randomly preaching, and flagrantly disobeying the rules that you agreed to adhere to, and you are then banned this is somehow proof of an atheist agenda to silence you?

I'm curious, exactly what colour is the sky in your world? It must be nice to live in a world where you can behave however you want and blame it on others.

You do not understand what I am saying because you have become dull of hearing.

Do you not believe that you are blaming God for so many things that Christians believe in? You have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: naemhni on March 14, 2011, 11:50:29 AM
You will remove me from these message boards, and why?

Screwtape didn't say anything about removing you from the forums, although it does appear that that's the direction you're heading in...

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For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

...and this is why: you're preaching.  Apart from the fact that preaching is going to have absolutely zero impact on us in any other way than to cause us to roll our eyes and shake our heads in annoyance -- because, believe me, you're not the first preacher that we've had here, not by a long shot -- it's also against the forum rules, and if you break the forum rules, you are going to be subject to disciplinary action.  And if/when that happens, it won't have anything to do with your beliefs, either.  Atheists here have also been subject to such action.

Quote
I speak to all who hear this way, grocery store or not.

Then I guess you must be a real hit at parties.

Quote
The Kingdom of God has come near you and you have rejected it!  Jerusalem, you who stone her prophets!

Preaching again.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Zankuu on March 14, 2011, 11:52:31 AM
Do you not believe that you are blaming God for so many things that Christians believe in?

Do you not understand what an atheist is? It is one that doesn't believe in a god(s). Please explain to me, in your own words, how I can blame something on a being I don't believe exists.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 14, 2011, 11:54:08 AM

You do not understand what I am saying because you have become dull of hearing.

Do you not believe that you are blaming God for so many things that Christians believe in? You have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering

Really? Because I'm pretty sure that it's because you're a raving nutjob. For example: "You have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter" You cannot enter a key. At least not if you live in the real world. Hence you cannot hinder someone from entering the key.

Also you might want to try periods, predicate clauses, not huffing butane.....
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: naemhni on March 14, 2011, 11:55:06 AM
You do not understand what I am saying because you have become dull of hearing.

Actually, most of the people here probably know more about your religion than you do.

Quote
Do you not believe that you are blaming God for so many things that Christians believe in?

We're not blaming god for anything.  How can we?  We don't believe he exists.  How can you blame a non-existent being for anything?

Quote
You have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering

SOI... I'm not kidding around, here: you really, really need to stop preaching.  Even if it had a snowball's chance in Guam of converting us, which it doesn't, it's against the forum rules.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 11:56:35 AM
Do you not believe that you are blaming God for so many things that Christians believe in?

Do you not understand what an atheist is? It is one that doesn't believe in a god(s). Please explain to me, in your own words, how I can blame something on a being I don't believe exists.

You do not believe in God, yet your reality revolves around a God.

Or am I wrong in my assessment?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 14, 2011, 11:58:31 AM
You do not believe in God, yet your reality revolves around a God.

Or am I wrong in my assessment?

Unless you can prove god exists, yeah. You're pretty much wrong about everything. It's more accurate to say that our reality has a tendency to revolve around delusional half-wits who try to base reality on their own insanities mixed with ancient fairy tales.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 11:59:06 AM

You do not understand what I am saying because you have become dull of hearing.

Do you not believe that you are blaming God for so many things that Christians believe in? You have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering

Really? Because I'm pretty sure that it's because you're a raving nutjob. For example: "You have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter" You cannot enter a key. At least not if you live in the real world. Hence you cannot hinder someone from entering the key.

Also you might want to try periods, predicate clauses, not huffing butane.....

Why did CHrist speak in parables?

Why?

SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Dante on March 14, 2011, 11:59:14 AM

You do not understand what I am saying because you have become dull of hearing.

Then perhaps you should use clearer and more concise wording. It's your task to make your audience understand.

Do you not believe that you are blaming God for so many things that Christians believe in? You have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering

No, I blame ignorance and delusion and weakness of mind.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: kindred on March 14, 2011, 11:59:54 AM
Get this through your thick head soi, LOGIC reigns here.

Nobody here cares that YOU need to believe in something stupid to feel okay. We will mock you for needing a crutch. Because unlike people that are lame, you don't actually need your emotional crutch(religion). You just don't have the emotional fortitude to try and live without it.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 12:03:33 PM
Get this through your thick head soi, LOGIC reigns here.

Nobody here cares that YOU need to believe in something stupid to feel okay. We will mock you for needing a crutch. Because unlike people that are lame, you don't actually need your emotional crutch(religion). You just don't have the emotional fortitude to try and live without it.


The weak are strong.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: screwtape on March 14, 2011, 12:03:53 PM
Hi SOI

You will remove me from these message boards, and why?

Nope.  You will remove yourself, or not, by your behavior.  This is not a platform for you or anyone else to preach.  You have come here with a boatload of prejudices and are behaving in such a way as to ensure your bigotry is confirmed.  So, I am asking you, please, stop it.   


Everyone else,
remain calm.

 
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 14, 2011, 12:05:11 PM
SOI, this is a discussion forum, not a soapbox for you to preach on. If you have evidence, present it. If you have a rational or intelligent to make, produce it. Your behaviour is in violation of the rules that you agreed to when you signed up to the forum.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: plethora on March 14, 2011, 12:05:44 PM
You will remove me from these message boards, and why?

The only reason a person is removed from these boards is if they break the rules.

Quote
For the word of God Allah is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I speak to all who hear this way, grocery store or not.

The Kingdom of God Allah has come near you and you have rejected it! Jerusalem, you who stone her prophets!

Notice how changing the word "god" for the word "allah" doesn't change your argument at all. You can put anything in there.

When you can replace god with anything else and still the same argument, it means the argument fails.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Asmoday on March 14, 2011, 12:06:59 PM
The weak are strong.
And war is peace!

Hello doublethink! (not that I think SOI actually read 1984...)
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 14, 2011, 12:07:14 PM
On a separate note. Since you agreed to follow the forum rules when you signed on here, the fact that you're not willingly breaking them makes you essentially a deceitful liar. I'm sure that your god is very happy with you right now.

Hello doublethink! (not that I think SOI actually read 1984...)

I don't know if "think" is exactly what I'd use in regards to this one.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 12:08:53 PM
Hi SOI

You will remove me from these message boards, and why?

Nope.  You will remove yourself, or not, by your behavior.  This is not a platform for you or anyone else to preach.  You have come here with a boatload of prejudices and are behaving in such a way as to ensure your bigotry is confirmed.  So, I am asking you, please, stop it.   


Everyone else,
remain calm.



I have not cast one stone. I have merely defended my God. I am zealous for Him. If I said the same words as you, you would accept me, to our own doom.

Quote from: modbreak
preaching removed
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: naemhni on March 14, 2011, 12:09:12 PM
Everyone else,
remain calm.

Animal House - All Is Well! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro#)
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 12:09:59 PM
On a separate note. Since you agreed to follow the forum rules when you signed on here, the fact that you're not willingly breaking them makes you essentially a deceitful liar. I'm sure that your god is very happy with you right now.

Hello doublethink! (not that I think SOI actually read 1984...)

I don't know if "think" is exactly what I'd use in regards to this one.

I give to God what is his.

The book/film 1984 is your prison.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 14, 2011, 12:17:47 PM
I have not cast one stone. I have merely defended my God. I am zealous for Him. If I said the same words as you, you would accept me, to our own doom.


No, we still wouldn't accept you. Even if you were an atheist, you're still insane and irrational. And you haven't defended your god, you've ranted and preached nonsense.

I also notice that you left out the part where I pointed out the fact that you were being obviously decietful. But I'm sure that you've changed reality in your mind to make that not exist anymore either.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Azdgari on March 14, 2011, 12:19:40 PM
I have not cast one stone. I have merely defended my God. I am zealous for Him. If I said the same words as you, you would accept me, to our own doom.

If your god exists then he is surely embarassed by your antics here.  You have not defended him - you have worked very hard to discredit him.  Good job?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: wright on March 14, 2011, 12:30:44 PM
Okay, I was mistaken. SOI is here to preach, not learn or discuss. Though I suppose he still might learn something (I'm feeling optimistic today). SOI, if you would just stop talking at people and spend some time talking to them, you might make more progress.

You want to share your views; we get that. But on this forum, you're expected to also defend your beliefs. Naysaying, preaching and circular reasoning are not going to reach us here.

If you are sincere about engaging in debate, I recommend reading some posts of Death over Life or Old Church Guy, two theist members of the forum. They aren't here often, but they have my respect, even if I don't agree with them.

Good luck.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 14, 2011, 12:32:38 PM
You will remove me from these message boards, and why?

For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I speak to all who hear this way, grocery store or not.

The Kingdom of God has come near you and you have rejected it! Jerusalem, you who stone her prophets!

SOI step back and think for a moment. People here are skeptical of your claims. Understand that. You are making claims of thing that trancend the physical world. Take you view of someone who says that some otherworld being has shown them how to live their life, that said otherworldly being can make thing miraculously happen, and all they have to prove it is a book handed down for generations. Tell me, why would you not believe them?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Jim on March 14, 2011, 01:00:26 PM
You do not understand what I am saying because you have become dull of hearing.

Do you not believe that you are blaming God for so many things that Christians believe in? You have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering

SOI,

If you wish to have discussion, that is ok.

But, seriously, no preaching.  If you wish to preach to atheists, do it elsewhere.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 01:51:38 PM
If I addressed every comment directed my way, I could exceed the character size of the text box.

I have formulated that we speak differrently. I do not understand you, and you do not understand my words.

This great chasm between us, can you not see it? I do not mean to speak at, or preach to all of you. In fact, if you knew me personally, we would cherish each other and you would see my walk.

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: One Above All on March 14, 2011, 01:53:51 PM
*Covers ears and goes "lalalalala I'm not listening!"*

^That is what you're doing
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 01:57:40 PM
Freedom.

What is freedom? All the materialistic things in our lives, we are slaves to them.

Death.

People think that they are not afraid to die, and yet they have not come to that point (yes, I realize neither have I). But to think that we are content (Believing that I do no wrong to anyone, unrepentive), or happy to live our lives to the fullest. These ideologies are not fufilling and dangerous to our this current time.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 14, 2011, 02:06:37 PM
If I addressed every comment directed my way, I could exceed the character size of the text box.


You can post more than once, try breaking your response to comments, per person.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Aaron123 on March 14, 2011, 02:07:08 PM
If I addressed every comment directed my way, I could exceed the character size of the text box.

I have formulated that we speak differrently. I do not understand you, and you do not understand my words.

This great chasm between us, can you not see it? I do not mean to speak at, or preach to all of you. In fact, if you knew me personally, we would cherish each other and you would see my walk.

This is little more than your way of saying that you refuse to have an actual discusion with any of us here.



Quote
Freedom.

What is freedom? All the materialistic things in our lives, we are slaves to them.

Death.

People think that they are not afraid to die, and yet they have not come to that point (yes, I realize neither have I). But to think that we are content (Believing that I do no wrong to anyone, unrepentive), or happy to live our lives to the fullest. These ideologies are not fufilling and dangerous to our this current time.

And this is your way of blabbling nonsense.  It might sound poetic at first, but in actuality, you're using a lot of words to say nothing at all.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: wright on March 14, 2011, 02:09:19 PM
If I addressed every comment directed my way, I could exceed the character size of the text box.

I have formulated that we speak differrently. I do not understand you, and you do not understand my words.

This great chasm between us, can you not see it? I do not mean to speak at, or preach to all of you. In fact, if you knew me personally, we would cherish each other and you would see my walk.



I think most of us here understand you pretty well: you are a believer who wants to convert us to your particular faith. You are the one failing (so far) to understand that here, in this particular forum, we are not interested. Nor will you be permitted to do it indefinitely.

What we are interested in is honest debate and discussion. While no atheist regulars here (as far as I know) have been swayed by the arguments of theist posters, we still welcome reasoned, even spirited attempts.

Be advised: many if not most atheists here (including me) used to be believers. Some were even pastors. We have heard a lot of preaching and apologetics and are not impressed by either.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 02:09:45 PM
I will have a discussion with any of you.

But remember, a trained repsonse like, "God is non-existent,"  is quite un-intelligent from my perspective.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 02:12:44 PM
If I addressed every comment directed my way, I could exceed the character size of the text box.

I have formulated that we speak differrently. I do not understand you, and you do not understand my words.

This great chasm between us, can you not see it? I do not mean to speak at, or preach to all of you. In fact, if you knew me personally, we would cherish each other and you would see my walk.



I think most of us here understand you pretty well: you are a believer who wants to convert us to your particular faith. You are the one failing (so far) to understand that here, in this particular forum, we are not interested. Nor will you be permitted to do it indefinitely.

What we are interested in is honest debate and discussion. While no atheist regulars here (as far as I know) have been swayed by the arguments of theist posters, we still welcome reasoned, even spirited attempts.

Be advised: many if not most atheists here (including me) used to be believers. Some were even pastors. We have heard a lot of preaching and apologetics and are not impressed by either.

I'm unsure that you do understand me, wright. Is it fair to say that a honest/fair debate could take place?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: frofrodajimmyboy on March 14, 2011, 02:16:04 PM
If I addressed every comment directed my way, I could exceed the character size of the text box.

I have formulated that we speak differrently. I do not understand you, and you do not understand my words.

This great chasm between us, can you not see it? I do not mean to speak at, or preach to all of you. In fact, if you knew me personally, we would cherish each other and you would see my walk.

Just a bit of an observation...  Is it just me, or does everyone who comes here to preach have an extremely strange way of communicating.  Things like "Can you not see it", "We would cherish each other and you would see my walk", etc.  I can't even begin to take this guy seriously. 
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Asmoday on March 14, 2011, 02:17:54 PM
What is freedom? All the materialistic things in our lives, we are slaves to them.
So I take it, you are following the direct command of your savior Jesus Christ and you have given away all your possessions and you do not have a job or any savings at all.

Quote
People think that they are not afraid to die, and yet they have not come to that point (yes, I realize neither have I).
Funny thing that you know what other people think...

Actually a lot of people have come close to the point of dying yet they are not afraid. I was once close to dying but back then I was not scared of it. It's an inevitable part of life. I don't want to die and the thought of dying does make me feel uncomfortable but I'm not afraid of death.

Quote
But to think that we are content (Believing that I do no wrong to anyone, unrepentive), or happy to live our lives to the fullest. These ideologies are not fufilling and dangerous to our this current time.
And you think, the ideology that everything gets better after you die is better?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 02:26:24 PM
So I take it, you are following the direct command of your savior Jesus Christ and you have given away all your possessions and you do not have a job or any savings at all.

I have not given all of it away. Let's assume that I follow the commandment of honesty and I told you that I don't cherish any of it?
 

Funny thing that you know what other people think...
Actually a lot of people have come close to the point of dying yet they are not afraid. I was once close to dying but back then I was not scared of it. It's an inevitable part of life. I don't want to die and the thought of dying does make me feel uncomfortable but I'm not afraid of death.

But I was right, you admitted yourself, your uncomfortable dying. For a forum that prides itself on logic, is there an alternative here to dying?

And you think, the ideology that everything gets better after you die is better?
[/quote]

This one is not hard at all.  YES.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 14, 2011, 02:26:47 PM
If I addressed every comment directed my way, I could exceed the character size of the text box.

I have formulated that we speak differrently. I do not understand you, and you do not understand my words.

This great chasm between us, can you not see it? I do not mean to speak at, or preach to all of you. In fact, if you knew me personally, we would cherish each other and you would see my walk.

Just a bit of an observation...  Is it just me, or does everyone who comes here to preach have an extremely strange way of communicating.  Things like "Can you not see it", "We would cherish each other and you would see my walk", etc.  I can't even begin to take this guy seriously.

Not always, but a lot do. It might be a bit of prejudice speaking here, but I think that it requires a level of being deep into the delusion of theism to try and "correct" atheists, on atheist turf, for not sharing their delusion. The mentally "off" are more likely to be deeply religious, and excessive religosity is considered a sign of mental problems by psychiatrists.

I"m not saying that everyone religious is insane(other than they are delusional) but deeply nutty people will, more often than not, be intensely religious. Thus the behavior we see here, as opposed to the usual "Sunday Christian" that are the bulk of believers.



Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: gonegolfing on March 14, 2011, 02:28:20 PM
I will have a discussion with any of you.

But remember, a trained repsonse like, "God is non-existent,"  is quite un-intelligent from my perspective.

Dude, seriously, if you want to stay, you'll have to change your approach  ;) The Mods here are very patient, but that will only last so long. For sure you will get asked questions here that are going to stop you dead in your tracks and make you think, which is a normal thing and something we've all faced in life's journey and are thankful for.

So chillax, have a good time here, and try to formulate some good solid answers to our questions and responses, without preaching or belittling others(hinting at a lack of intelligence).

 ;D
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: gonegolfing on March 14, 2011, 02:33:16 PM


SOI:

Quote
But I was right, you admitted yourself, your uncomfortable dying. For a forum that prides itself on logic, is there an alternative here to dying?


You see, this is what I mean. You've got to do better mate. This is a sure sign of someone who is not giving us their best  ;)
 
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: frofrodajimmyboy on March 14, 2011, 02:37:19 PM
If I addressed every comment directed my way, I could exceed the character size of the text box.

I have formulated that we speak differrently. I do not understand you, and you do not understand my words.

This great chasm between us, can you not see it? I do not mean to speak at, or preach to all of you. In fact, if you knew me personally, we would cherish each other and you would see my walk.

Just a bit of an observation...  Is it just me, or does everyone who comes here to preach have an extremely strange way of communicating.  Things like "Can you not see it", "We would cherish each other and you would see my walk", etc.  I can't even begin to take this guy seriously.

Not always, but a lot do. It might be a bit of prejudice speaking here, but I think that it requires a level of being deep into the delusion of theism to try and "correct" atheists, on atheist turf, for not sharing their delusion. The mentally "off" are more likely to be deeply religious, and excessive religosity is considered a sign of mental problems by psychiatrists.

I"m not saying that everyone religious is insane(other than they are delusional) but deeply nutty people will, more often than not, be intensely religious. Thus the behavior we see here, as opposed to the usual "Sunday Christian" that are the bulk of believers.

I mean, I get that they're trying to come off as deep, metaphorical, whatever, but I don't see how anyone could think that they'll get their point across that way in a fact-based discussion. 
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 02:42:17 PM
Ok here it is, you don't want to validate the Bible (for some valid reasons), but yet it speaks of you.

It speaks of future times from ancient days, and I know you find this ridiculous.

You want signs, (and you will get them) but yet this will still not be enough to turn your hearts.

Do you want to have a discussion on the merits of atheism? On the elevation of your discovery of no God? On your appetite (this is not literal)?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: wright on March 14, 2011, 02:44:31 PM

Death.

People think that they are not afraid to die, and yet they have not come to that point (yes, I realize neither have I). But to think that we are content (Believing that I do no wrong to anyone, unrepentive), or happy to live our lives to the fullest. These ideologies are not fufilling and dangerous to our this current time.

I'll readily admit that I'm afraid to die; it's something I intend to put off as long as possible  ;D. Contentment, living life to its fullest are relative concepts and it's true (for instance) that there are tyrants and others who achieve them by oppressing and murdering their fellow human beings.

But you're painting with a pretty broad brush. My idea of contentment is to have fulfilling, rewarding work, to love and know that I'm loved back, to see my poetry published, to sit on my back step in the sun, stroking a cat while smelling the mint and jasmine of my garden. I can do and enjoy all these things without endangering anyone else.

I will have a discussion with any of you.

But remember, a trained repsonse like, "God is non-existent,"  is quite un-intelligent from my perspective.

If you regard the bolded as "a trained response", what are we to make of your preaching?

A bit of advice: use the Spell Check function of the response window. All we have to judge each other by here are our words. Easily corrected misspellings don't make a good impression.


I'm unsure that you do understand me, wright. Is it fair to say that a honest/fair debate could take place?

I've been a member of this forum for over a year. I've seen many debates between atheists and theists, between just atheists, and have participated in a few. Yes, it's quite possible to have an honest debate here.

Again, be advised: it can get heated at times. From my own observations, believers like yourself can find it very stressful. You are a definite minority here. Keep calm, reply clearly to one person at a time, and refrain as much as possible from preaching.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Asmoday on March 14, 2011, 02:46:00 PM
I have not given all of it away. Let's assume that I follow the commandment of honesty and I told you that I don't cherish any of it?
You've not given all away?

Why would you not follow the command of your god to the letter if you believe in him completely?
 
Quote
But I was right, you admitted yourself, your uncomfortable dying. For a forum that prides itself on logic, is there an alternative here to dying?
No, I think you misunderstand me. I know that I will die and death does not scare me. The process of dying (heart attack, being squashed by a bus etc.) is what I find uncomfortable.

By logic I know that knives are sharp. That does not mean feeling uncomfortable by the thought of cutting myself with one is illogical.

Quote
Quote
And you think, the ideology that everything gets better after you die is better?

This one is not hard at all.  YES.
I'm sure all those suicide bombers are very very happy by the thought that everything gets better after they are dead.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 02:50:28 PM

My idea of contentment is to have fulfilling, rewarding work, to love and know that I'm loved back, to see my poetry published, to sit on my back step in the sun, stroking a cat while smelling the mint and jasmine of my garden. I can do and enjoy all these things without endangering anyone else.


I'll be happy to use the spell check........

See above................You want that to end one day?


Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: naemhni on March 14, 2011, 02:51:12 PM
Ok here it is, you don't want to validate the Bible (for some valid reasons)

What we want to validate is the truth, regardless of whether we like it or where we find it.  We don't find it in the bible.  What we find in the bible is a lot of reason to think that it's a work of fiction.

Quote
but yet it speaks of you.

It does?  I will personally give you one million dollars for each WWGHA member who is named in scripture.  (If you don't want the money for yourself, donate it to a Japan relief effort or some other worthwhile cause.)  I'm talking about specifically by name, either by screen name or by actual name, not some crap like "the lost children of Israel" or something.

Quote
It speaks of future times from ancient days, and I know you find this ridiculous.

Right, because it is.  Prophecy, both biblical and otherwise, is always so vague that it can be interpreted in just about any way.  Watch the movie "Koyaanisqatsi" some time.  It gives a bunch of prophecies from Hopi mythology that appear to be coming true, at least from the film's perspective.  (That aside, though, it's a really good film, so I recommend it for that reason as well.)

Quote
You want signs, (and you will get them)

We hear this a lot.  We've never been impressed.

Quote
but yet this will still not be enough to turn your hearts.

It's not our hearts we're talking about, here, it's our minds.  We're not going to accept something because it feels good or seems right to us or anything like that.  We want evidence, objective evidence that can be reviewed and analyzed by others.

Quote
Do you want to have a discussion on the merits of atheism?

Sure, we do that all the time here.

Quote
On the elevation of your discovery of no God?

That's not quite an accurate assessment of our position.  We haven't "discovered no god" any more than we've "discovered no leprechauns".  Leprechauns may exist, but unless and until someone gives us some evidence we can look it, we will consider the notion to be unworthy of consideration.  Ditto Yahweh.

Quote
On your appetite (this is not literal)?

Literal or not, it's not pertinent.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 02:52:59 PM
How do you mini-quote?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 14, 2011, 02:59:50 PM

My idea of contentment is to have fulfilling, rewarding work, to love and know that I'm loved back, to see my poetry published, to sit on my back step in the sun, stroking a cat while smelling the mint and jasmine of my garden. I can do and enjoy all these things without endangering anyone else.


I'll be happy to use the spell check........

See above................You want that to end one day?

The universe is indifferent to our wants. Sure I don't want to die, that is not relevant to the fact one day I will.
Do you want North Korea to be a military dictatorship? No? Does that change the nature of the North Korean government?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Jim on March 14, 2011, 03:03:55 PM
Ok here it is, you don't want to validate the Bible (for some valid reasons), but yet it speaks of you.

It speaks of future times from ancient days, and I know you find this ridiculous.

You want signs, (and you will get them) but yet this will still not be enough to turn your hearts.

Do you want to have a discussion on the merits of atheism? On the elevation of your discovery of no God? On your appetite (this is not literal)?

Lots of holy books speak of those who don't believe as the holy book informs them to.  Lots of religions have admonishments to believe what they tell you to believe.  Lots of religious idiots take on a sanctimonious voice and claim to take the "higher ground" to "show the way" to those who "don't understand," just as you are now.

Here's a hint: lots of us here know scripture very well, some have studied extensively.  Many of us here have done a lot more insightful thought about the subject than you can imagine.  None of us need signs, either, so you can rack that one up as incorrect, as well.

The newcomer who appears on the board who deludes himself thinking he knows how everyone feels and what they think, all with the intention of telling them that they're wrong, is going to get stomped, SOI.

Enjoy your reaming.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Dante on March 14, 2011, 03:04:39 PM
How do you mini-quote?

Press the quote tab at the top right of the post you want to quote. Copy and paste the beginning and end {quote} tabs at the beginnings and ends of the sentences you want to quote.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 14, 2011, 03:08:37 PM

Quote
It does?  I will personally give you one million dollars for each WWGHA member who is named in scripture.  (If you don't want the money for yourself, donate it to a Japan relief effort or some other worthwhile cause.)  I'm talking about specifically by name, either by screen name or by actual name, not some crap like "the lost children of Israel" or something.



Here's the first one.
"I drink your milkshake"
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 14, 2011, 03:15:54 PM

Quote
It does?  I will personally give you one million dollars for each WWGHA member who is named in scripture.  (If you don't want the money for yourself, donate it to a Japan relief effort or some other worthwhile cause.)  I'm talking about specifically by name, either by screen name or by actual name, not some crap like "the lost children of Israel" or something.



Here's the first one.
"I drink your milkshake"

SOI sounding more and more like POE
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: naemhni on March 14, 2011, 03:17:10 PM

Quote
It does?  I will personally give you one million dollars for each WWGHA member who is named in scripture.  (If you don't want the money for yourself, donate it to a Japan relief effort or some other worthwhile cause.)  I'm talking about specifically by name, either by screen name or by actual name, not some crap like "the lost children of Israel" or something.



Here's the first one.
"I drink your milkshake"

You amuse me, Mister Bond!

Although that expression is commonly used here, there is no user here by that screen name, and even if there were, milkshakes could not be mentioned anywhere in the bible... a milkshake is a mixture of milk and ice cream, and ice cream was not invented until the 18th Century.

Would you like to go for Double Jeopardy, where the scores can really change?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: wright on March 14, 2011, 03:19:31 PM

My idea of contentment is to have fulfilling, rewarding work, to love and know that I'm loved back, to see my poetry published, to sit on my back step in the sun, stroking a cat while smelling the mint and jasmine of my garden. I can do and enjoy all these things without endangering anyone else.


I'll be happy to use the spell check........

See above................You want that to end one day?




I don't look forward to it ending, as I've said. But I accept that it will. I'm nearly fifty; in the last twenty years all my grandparents and several elderly friends / acquaintances have died. Not to mention several beloved cats  :'(. Death, my death, is a reality.

But though I no longer believe in an afterlife, I have also seen that a person's legacy (their descendants, their writing, their work, even just remembering them) can transcend their death in heartening and humbling ways. So even though I fear death, and hope to live for decades still, I know that aspects of my life will continue beyond it. My forum signature sums up my feelings pretty well  ;).

You can mini-quote by using the "Insert Quote" button in the reply window.

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: wright on March 14, 2011, 03:22:52 PM


You amuse me, Mister Bond!

Although that expression is commonly used here, there is no user here by that screen name, and even if there were, milkshakes could not be mentioned anywhere in the bible... a milkshake is a mixture of milk and ice cream, and ice cream was not invented until the 18th Century.

Would you like to go for Double Jeopardy, where the scores can really change?

+1 to you, sir!
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 14, 2011, 03:33:48 PM

Right, because it is.  Prophecy, both biblical and otherwise, is always so vague that it can be interpreted in just about any way.  Watch the movie "Koyaanisqatsi" some time.  It gives a bunch of prophecies from Hopi mythology that appear to be coming true, at least from the film's perspective.  (That aside, though, it's a really good film, so I recommend it for that reason as well.)

Prophesy is easy, I call it the Nostrdomus effect. Say enough portentous things in purple prose, and eventually you can be interpreted as being "right." The Bible contains 181253 words.

I can do it too:

The long of the eveningstar a storm will rise up
The people of the east will be flung hither and to
No one will know his name, but a tyrant will gather his disciples
and strike at the house of the Bear
the wail of the earth will be heard
from the four corners of the risen caliphate
only the stoutest survive
On the fifteenth turning of the moon

If I did that for 181253 words and was given a few millenia and a bunch of people scouring my text...yes it would seem to some that I had uncanny accuracy. 
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Zankuu on March 14, 2011, 04:11:42 PM
You do not believe in God, yet your reality revolves around a God.

Or am I wrong in my assessment?

Meh, somewhat. I do not believe any god exists, but I am involved in discussions about an imaginary story book character named Yahweh that people actually believe in.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: screwtape on March 15, 2011, 07:27:31 AM
My reality revolved around Darth Vader for about 10 years.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 15, 2011, 09:22:06 AM
I mean, I get that they're trying to come off as deep, metaphorical, whatever, but I don't see how anyone could think that they'll get their point across that way in a fact-based discussion.

Really, reading him it is hard to decide between:
(1) English is not their Native Language
(2) Attempting to sound "deep"
(3) Nuts
(4) Poe

Because of the weird, vauge, and disjointed way he writes.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 15, 2011, 09:28:18 AM
I'd say three is the most likely. He doesn't seem to actually make the same mistakes that a non-english speaker would make. And if he were trying to sound deep, no one could fail at it as hard as he does. Three is the most likely, with a likely mixture of lack of education.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: LadyLucy on March 15, 2011, 09:38:15 AM
He's a preaching lunatic, nothing can be discussed with him because he doesn't want to actually discuss both view-points. It's more than clear that he just wants (wishes really) to make us think and then convert to his OneTrueReligionToRuleThemAlltm.

Hey SOI, did you read that? Unless you are interested in discussing both view-points, you aren't gonna get anywhere. And look, despite you being the way you are, no one ever wanted you banned, nor shunned, nor silenced, otherwise the Mods/Admins would have done something.

So, it's either you come back here and keep posting (whether inappropriate or not), or you take the action to simply leave the forum. Your choice really, Oh, Chosen Onetm
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: screwtape on March 15, 2011, 09:56:37 AM
Just a bit of an observation...  Is it just me, or does everyone who comes here to preach have an extremely strange way of communicating.  Things like "Can you not see it", "We would cherish each other and you would see my walk", etc.  I can't even begin to take this guy seriously.

That comes from two things.  First, many of the preachy types go for the King James bible.  It was written at the very start of the 17th century.  For reference, Shakespeare died a couple years after the KJV was completed. So when the preachy types go into evangelical mode, they borrow language from the KJV and, as a result, come off sounding like Mercutio or Laertes.  They mistake archaic language for high falutin', the pretentious gits.

The other contributing factor is they also like to borrow from the "prophetic" parts of the NT.  Those parts are vague, mystical sounding paradoxes which sound deep superficially[1] but are really meaningless.  Yoda speaks similarly, but actually makes more sense.  It makes up a sort of secret, coded language for those in the know.  Right wing politicians use this kind of language all the time to appeal to the loonies without the moderates knowing what they are actually promising.

 1. the weak will be strong, up will be down, dogs and cats will be living together, etc
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Jim on March 15, 2011, 10:15:12 AM
...Those parts are vague, mystical sounding paradoxes which sound deep superficially but are really meaningless.  Yoda speaks similarly, but actually makes more sense....

Ah, yes, "Deepities:"
Whitman's Mind: Dan Dennett on Spin & Deepity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg-4fmbpZ-M#ws)
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: LadyLucy on March 15, 2011, 10:25:22 AM
Just a bit of an observation...  Is it just me, or does everyone who comes here to preach have an extremely strange way of communicating.  Things like "Can you not see it", "We would cherish each other and you would see my walk", etc.  I can't even begin to take this guy seriously.

That comes from two things.  First, many of the preachy types go for the King James bible.  It was written at the very start of the 17th century.  For reference, Shakespeare died a couple years after the KJV was completed. So when the preachy types go into evangelical mode, they borrow language from the KJV and, as a result, come off sounding like Mercutio or Laertes.  They mistake archaic language for high falutin', the pretentious gits.

The other contributing factor is they also like to borrow from the "prophetic" parts of the NT.  Those parts are vague, mystical sounding paradoxes which sound deep superficially[1] but are really meaningless.  Yoda speaks similarly, but actually makes more sense.  It makes up a sort of secret, coded language for those in the know.  Right wing politicians use this kind of language all the time to appeal to the loonies without the moderates knowing what they are actually promising.
 1. the weak will be strong, up will be down, dogs and cats will be living together, etc

So that's how they do it... -Writes into the handy-dandy notebook-
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 15, 2011, 12:07:34 PM
Right wing politicians use this kind of language all the time to appeal to the loonies without the moderates knowing what they are actually promising.

I wouldn't put that ONLY on the right. A lot of left wing politiocos have learned that trick long ago, but instead of sprinkling a pepper shaker full of "Home, Family, Nation, Values, Faith, Security, Prosperity" over their speech like the right; they use the salt shaker of "Progress, Integrity, Justice, Equality, Hope, Together, Forward."

Just because I generally agree with the left doesn't mean I can't see a tactic when I see it.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 15, 2011, 06:31:11 PM
I'd say three is the most likely. He doesn't seem to actually make the same mistakes that a non-english speaker would make. And if he were trying to sound deep, no one could fail at it as hard as he does. Three is the most likely, with a likely mixture of lack of education.

Interesting.....that I would not get away with this abusive treatment to another. Also that I am being psycho-analyzed by all of you has if I am being deceived.

None of you know the first thing or have predicted anything correct about me, except that I believe in the One God.

An earlier post stated that they must be convinced of a god with their mind. Many of the predictions about man and their hate for the Chosen One are being fufilled, and no, I do not mean end times.

If prophecy was on trial here, many items in the Bible would be admissable (and no, I don't mean end times.)

Look at our current era. With all this new knowledge, why are things escalating from bad to worse? We are more intelligent than ever?

Are we better when we set our minds/laws apart from the Hebrew God? True, pure, and gracious religon.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: LadyLucy on March 15, 2011, 06:35:17 PM
None of you know the first thing or have predicted anything correct about me, except that I believe in the One God.

Are we better when we set our minds/laws apart from the Hebrew God? True, pure, and gracious religon.

-Raises hand-

Mr. SOI, what about the other gods who claim to be true as well? Hindus believe their gods to be the One True gods! And they look cool! Like Vishnu, he's all blue and stuff, and he has multiple avatars, and he is REALLY cool! And the Inca pantheon, too; I have distant relatives that still believe in the Sun God, the Earth God, the Moon God, etc... They look really cool, too! Why aren't they true, sir? -Tugs at sleeve-
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 15, 2011, 06:53:02 PM

Quote
-Raises hand-

Mr. SOI, what about the other gods who claim to be true as well? Hindus believe their gods to be the One True gods! And they look cool! Like Vishnu, he's all blue and stuff, and he has multiple avatars, and he is REALLY cool! And the Inca pantheon, too; I have distant relatives that still believe in the Sun God, the Earth God, the Moon God, etc... They look really cool, too! Why aren't they true, sir? -Tugs at sleeve-
[/quote]

I've read a post of yours before, you are a former believer.

I guess here is a reponse for you. The biggest rub that other religons have with the Hebrew God is that he is the arrogant one. He claims it all. Creation (of good and evil), Judgement (Now and the future), Love (in spite of his wrath, ready to forgive if you return to Him).

All those other Gods/religon don't like you, have no witnesses, or believe in jihad (your present destruction, now, in this present day by the hands of their followers).

No doubt you will claim that Christians are guilty of the same murder. But not any true follower
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: LadyLucy on March 15, 2011, 07:20:20 PM
Huh? There are OneTrueChristianstm? Since when? And who are they, in your book? There are more than 30,000 Christian denominations alone. And many hate each other. And I asked you about the other gods. How are they "not there"? They have just as much proof as your god. The Hindus have the Vedas, the Bhagavad Gita, etc, all holy books that show proof like your god, YHWH, does. So again, why are they not the one true gods?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: mrbiscoop on March 15, 2011, 07:23:01 PM
Hey OP your responses are borderline incoherent. Please put a little more effort into your responses.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 15, 2011, 07:28:17 PM
None of you know the first thing or have predicted anything correct about me, except that I believe in the One God.

Oh, I don't know. Considering what you've been writing so far, the evidence seems to suggest we were spot-on.

Also that I am being psycho-analyzed by all of you has if I am being deceived.

Well you believe in something that has no evidence to support. So either you're being deceived or you're delusional. So far the delusional horse seems to be approaching the final stretch.

An earlier post stated that they must be convinced of a god with their mind. Many of the predictions about man and their hate for the Chosen One are being fufilled, and no, I do not mean end times.

Which predictions? Can you articulate what they are and how they are being fulfilled? See how this works is that you have to actually back up what you say. This is one of the reasons that you're being dismissed as clearly crazy. Do you actually know what these prophecies are? Actually a better question is have you ever actually read the book? Or did you just do the cliff note thing?

If prophecy was on trial here, many items in the Bible would be admissable (and no, I don't mean end times.)

Like what? Which prophecies? Why would it be admissable? Actually, another much better question. Are you capable of stringing together more than one sentence? Is that why you have so much trouble supporting yourself?


Look at our current era. With all this new knowledge, why are things escalating from bad to worse? We are more intelligent than ever?

Are we better when we set our minds/laws apart from the Hebrew God? True, pure, and gracious religon.

Mindless rambling/preaching, not to mention nonsensical. As for setting our minds apart from god. Let's see, ever since we started kicking god to the curb we got the Enlightenment, got rid of witch trials and Crusades, started travelling to the moon and investigating other planets, made cheez in a spray can. And God got us...........huh, what exactly did god get us?

Your turn, Crazy Man.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: mrbiscoop on March 15, 2011, 07:49:15 PM
      Speaking of prophecies, you realize that the new testament authors had access to the old testament. Like wow, the new testament fulfills old testament prophecies. &)
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 15, 2011, 07:53:18 PM
      Speaking of prophecies, you realize that the new testament authors had access to the old testament. Like wow, the new testament fulfills old testament prophecies. &)

They also stole prophecies from other faiths. Two-thirds of Revelations is cribbed from the Zoroastrian story of the end times. I wonder how he feels knowing that his god is a plagerer.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Astreja on March 15, 2011, 10:02:47 PM
      Speaking of prophecies, you realize that the new testament authors had access to the old testament. Like wow, the new testament fulfills old testament prophecies. &)

Particularly if you do something like "Hey, it says here I'm supposed to ride into Jerusalem!  Go down the road and steal me something to ride on."
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Asmoday on March 15, 2011, 10:10:23 PM
They also stole prophecies from other faiths. Two-thirds of Revelations is cribbed from the Zoroastrian story of the end times. I wonder how he feels knowing that his god is a plagerer.
Let's not forget that they could not even get all the prophecies right.

The most important OT prophecies about what defines the messiah have not been fulfilled (like the messiah being a worldly king, a human (not a divine avatar), a descendant of the line of David and oh, his name will be Immanuel).

The "prophecies" that Christians say have been fulfilled are actually no prophecies at all. If you go back and actually read the surrounding text, there's often nothing at all marking that those as a special prophecy. Not to mention that those passages often contain dozens more "prophecies" that are never mentioned because they don't get mentioned as fulfilled in the NT.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 15, 2011, 11:26:14 PM
None of you know the first thing or have predicted anything correct about me, except that I believe in the One God.

Oh, I don't know. Considering what you've been writing so far, the evidence seems to suggest we were spot-on.

Also that I am being psycho-analyzed by all of you has if I am being deceived.

Well you believe in something that has no evidence to support. So either you're being deceived or you're delusional. So far the delusional horse seems to be approaching the final stretch.

An earlier post stated that they must be convinced of a god with their mind. Many of the predictions about man and their hate for the Chosen One are being fufilled, and no, I do not mean end times.

Quote
Which predictions? Can you articulate what they are and how they are being fulfilled? See how this works is that you have to actually back up what you say. This is one of the reasons that you're being dismissed as clearly crazy. Do you actually know what these prophecies are? Actually a better question is have you ever actually read the book? Or did you just do the cliff note thing?
If prophecy was on trial here, many items in the Bible would be admissable (and no, I don't mean end times.)

Quote
Like what? Which prophecies? Why would it be admissable? Actually, another much better question. Are you capable of stringing together more than one sentence? Is that why you have so much trouble supporting yourself?



This Bible verse is in response to your post. I keep telling you about your "nature." Your appetitte. And this is in response. This is not preaching Mods, but a rebuttal in our trial case  :police:.
1 John 4:6
We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

You don't understand me, and it seems as though God was ahead of the curve centuries before any analytical psychiatrists of today?

Now I realize that I am speaking to very insightful people, ones who I have read the Bible and "know more scripture than me." (If this were of the Truth) For knowing scripture, is seeking from a pure heart from the One who knows man's heart and mind (motives). In order for scripture to "work/be real (for the lack of a better term)", from a supernatural god, you have to be honest.

Could it be that your eyes are not opened, because of whats really going on inside?

Surely now you will tell me this is not the case, and the first liar doesn't stand a chance.




Alzael said:
Are you capable of stringing together more than one sentence? Is that why you have so much trouble supporting yourself?


P.S. So what if I answer in one sentence or 100? Are we resorting to 3rd grade insults?


Remember, the one key to being an atheist  is that you humans came to the knowledge of moral excellence i.e. no lying, no murdering etc., on their own. Without God's laws. And are headed down a road of continous evolutionary paths, unafraid of Sheol.

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 15, 2011, 11:36:09 PM
They also stole prophecies from other faiths. Two-thirds of Revelations is cribbed from the Zoroastrian story of the end times. I wonder how he feels knowing that his god is a plagerer.
Let's not forget that they could not even get all the prophecies right.

The most important OT prophecies about what defines the messiah have not been fulfilled (like the messiah being a worldly king, a human (not a divine avatar), a descendant of the line of David and oh, his name will be Immanuel).

The "prophecies" that Christians say have been fulfilled are actually no prophecies at all. If you go back and actually read the surrounding text, there's often nothing at all marking that those as a special prophecy. Not to mention that those passages often contain dozens more "prophecies" that are never mentioned because they don't get mentioned as fulfilled in the NT.


You are correct. The Messiah would be a human, not a man god. No trinitarian god.

Jesus Christ/Messiah/Man did fufill this prophecy. Very good.

Psalm 110. Adonai said to Adoni.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: wright on March 16, 2011, 12:16:00 AM
SOI:
Quote
Remember, the one key to being an atheist  is that you humans came to the knowledge of moral excellence i.e. no lying, no murdering etc., on their own. Without God's laws. And are headed down a road of continous evolutionary paths, unafraid of Sheol.

Hoo boy. SOI, if you can't get this right... the definitive "key" to being an atheist is that one lacks belief in a god or gods.

We're a pretty fractious, diverse bunch, otherwise. Politically, socially, all the rest of it. But that's the key concept, right there.

The rest you pretty much nailed. Most atheists don't go around murdering, etc. on our own. We do just fine without an imaginary being's "laws". Our own consciences and the laws of our various societies are adequate guides, for the most part.

I don't have a clue what you mean by "continous evolutionary paths", but yeah, no atheist I've ever met is afraid of hell.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Astreja on March 16, 2011, 12:30:55 AM
Could it be that your eyes are not opened, because of whats really going on inside?

Surely now you will tell me this is not the case, and the first liar doesn't stand a chance.

I will stand up here and take a risk that SOI will accuse Me of lying.   8)

Between the ages of 6 and 7, I read an illustrated version of the Bible cover-to-cover... Several times.  If ever there was a chance that My eyes could have been "opened" to the alleged truth of the Bible, that would have been the time for your invisible friend to work his magic.

SOI, it had the exact opposite effect.  By the time I was 7½ years old I had seen through the artifice of organized religion and had publicly stated something to the effect of "Stories of Hell would be a really good way to keep a group of people under control."

And at no time in My 53+ years have I believed in the god of the Bible.

I've continued to read the Bible intermittently over the years.  In My eyes, "opened" or not, it simply doesn't deliver.  It's valuable primarily as a piece of historical literature, and heavily derivative literature at that.  It's not particularly original, and it certainly isn't a good source of either history or moral instruction.  I'm quite convinced that it was neither written by nor inspired by a god.

My disbelief is just that -- Disbelief.  I see no evidence for the god of the Bible.

(chalks Her hands and takes a couple of practice swings with Her Clue-By-Four™)  So, tell Me, SOI... What do *you* think is "really going on inside"?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Asmoday on March 16, 2011, 12:41:41 AM
You are correct. The Messiah would be a human, not a man god. No trinitarian god.

Jesus Christ/Messiah/Man did fufill this prophecy. Very good.

Psalm 110. Adonai said to Adoni.
Sorry, but no.

If you believe the bible, then Jesus was not a human but he is God / part of God / son of God. Prophecy not fulfilled.

And I did notice how you avoided replying to everything else in my post.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: LadyLucy on March 16, 2011, 05:13:09 AM
Huh? There are OneTrueChristianstm? Since when? And who are they, in your book? There are more than 30,000 Christian denominations alone. And many hate each other. And I asked you about the other gods. How are they "not there"? They have just as much proof as your god. The Hindus have the Vedas, the Bhagavad Gita, etc, all holy books that show proof like your god, YHWH, does. So again, why are they not the one true gods?

You still didn't answer the above question, SOI. Are you really that weak in your faith that you won't answer?

Side-note: No Atheist is afraid of hell, nor do they think about heaven. They are fictitious. And so is Satan, just like YHWH. We don't believe in anything in your religion, including all the other religions out there in the world. What's so hard to get?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Vivisectus on March 16, 2011, 05:22:34 AM
Quote
1 John 4:6
We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

You don't understand me, and it seems as though God was ahead of the curve centuries before any analytical psychiatrists of today?

But this was already dealt with. You interpret this as a successful prophesy by the bible. I read it as saying "and some people will not share your faith and be critical of it - by this sign we can recognize them as being wrong."

This is believers being exhorted not to listen to unbelievers. There is not a hint in here of any actual prediction - except the prediction that some people will read the bible and say "this makes no sense!" which is not much of a prediction at all, unless you count the prediction "And SOI will not change his/her mind because of this" as an accurate prophesy and proof of universal wisdom.

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Now I realize that I am speaking to very insightful people, ones who I have read the Bible and "know more scripture than me." (If this were of the Truth) For knowing scripture, is seeking from a pure heart from the One who knows man's heart and mind (motives). In order for scripture to "work/be real (for the lack of a better term)", from a supernatural god, you have to be honest.

What are you saying? That someone who reads the same text and comes to a different conclusion is a liar? Or is it (as I suspect) that your point is that one should read the Bible as if it were the Word of God, and that if you do so, you will believe it is the Word of God? I always find this problematical, as it required me to believe first, and then read the text that is then used to prove that there is something to believe in in the first place. It seems like putting the horse before the cart.

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Could it be that your eyes are not opened, because of whats really going on inside?

I can say the same of you - could it be that you do not believe the objections to Christianity are valid because of your bias?
Prediction from Viv the prophet: you will say no.

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Surely now you will tell me this is not the case, and the first liar doesn't stand a chance.

What do you mean by the second part of your sentence? What liar are you referring to?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: screwtape on March 16, 2011, 08:15:10 AM
SOI,

It is difficult to understand what you are saying without some context.  Right now we are forced to make assumptions about what you mean in part because we have no context and in part because you are just giving us sound bites.  I would like to give you a couple of friendly suggestions. 

First, go to the Introductions (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/board,17.0.html) area and formally introduce yourself.  Tell us a little about yourself and your religious background.  There is no debate allowed in that area.

Next, go to the Testimonials (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/board,29.0.html) area and explain what you believe.  It would be educational if you also explained why you believe it.  Debate is permitted there, so expect to have your beliefs examined and challenged.

Last, when you make posts, include more explanation.  You came in sounding like a Pentecostal on LSD.  Now you are sounding kind of jewy.  Suffice it to say, I am confused about what exactly it is you believe and I am sure I speak for others on that. 

This confusion makes discussion difficult.  When you talk about believing in "the One God", that doesn't really narrow it down.  There are lots of "One, True Gods".  Is that the jewish, xian or islamic version of the one God?  Or is that what hindus call "Brahman"?  It is important that all parties involved are on the same page.  Unless you give us a more complete explanation about what you are saying, you force us to make assumptions, and that rarely works to anyone's benefit.  It usually ends up in pissing matches and I would sincerely like to avoid that.

your affectionate uncle,
Screwtape
 
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 16, 2011, 08:19:57 AM
I'd say three is the most likely. He doesn't seem to actually make the same mistakes that a non-english speaker would make. And if he were trying to sound deep, no one could fail at it as hard as he does. Three is the most likely, with a likely mixture of lack of education.

Interesting.....that I would not get away with this abusive treatment to another. Also that I am being psycho-analyzed by all of you has if I am being deceived.

None of you know the first thing or have predicted anything correct about me, except that I believe in the One God.

An earlier post stated that they must be convinced of a god with their mind. Many of the predictions about man and their hate for the Chosen One are being fufilled, and no, I do not mean end times.


I didn't write it out, but I internally predicted that after you ignored multiple postd from me asking you direct questiions that this post would get a response of "how dare you analyze me" More or less, I was write.

Do you even understand you speak in vague, even pretentious, phrases when asked direct questions?

Again I reiterate: When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

Answer that question in direct, simple, and clear terms.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 16, 2011, 12:49:52 PM
Look at Me.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/board,29.0.html (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/board,29.0.html)
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 16, 2011, 12:51:26 PM

I didn't write it out, but I internally predicted that after you ignored multiple postd from me asking you direct questiions that this post would get a response of "how dare you analyze me" More or less, I was write.

Do you even understand you speak in vague, even pretentious, phrases when asked direct questions?

Again I reiterate: When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?




Again, this is my non-education, I am just trying to give you what you want.

What precisely is your question?

Answer that question in direct, simple, and clear terms.
[/quote]
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 16, 2011, 12:54:48 PM
SOI, When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

This is my direct question....again.


Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Aaron123 on March 16, 2011, 12:55:39 PM
SOI, can you please fix your quoting?  I have no idea what's your words, and what's someone else is.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 16, 2011, 12:56:32 PM
Between the ages of 6 and 7, I read an illustrated version of the Bible cover-to-cover... Several times.  If ever there was a chance that My eyes could have been "opened" to the alleged truth of the Bible, that would have been the time for your invisible friend to work his magic.

SOI, it had the exact opposite effect.  By the time I was 7½ years old I had seen through the artifice of organized religion and had publicly stated something to the effect of "Stories of Hell would be a really good way to keep a group of people under control."

And at no time in My 53+ years have I believed in the god of the Bible.

I've continued to read the Bible intermittently over the years.  In My eyes, "opened" or not, it simply doesn't deliver.  It's valuable primarily as a piece of historical literature, and heavily derivative literature at that.  It's not particularly original, and it certainly isn't a good source of either history or moral instruction.  I'm quite convinced that it was neither written by nor inspired by a god.

My disbelief is just that -- Disbelief.  I see no evidence for the god of the Bible.

(chalks Her hands and takes a couple of practice swings with Her Clue-By-Four™)  So, tell Me, SOI... What do *you* think is "really going on inside"?



I guess that maybe why your eyes are not opened is because at the tender age of 6-7 yrs. The Creator knew the future, like you typing that post, and chose not to open your eyes?

I think what's going on inside, hmmm, you do not believe this to be true?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 16, 2011, 12:58:10 PM
SOI, When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

This is my direct question....again.





Okay, getting nowhere?

I'll make you happy. Due to my non-understanding, I do not get the question?

A good salesperson resubmits the question to best get the results he likes.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Zankuu on March 16, 2011, 01:01:13 PM
Here SOI, this should help if it hasn't been directed toward you before:

Quoting Guide (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,4259.0.html).
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 16, 2011, 01:02:58 PM
You are correct. The Messiah would be a human, not a man god. No trinitarian god.

Jesus Christ/Messiah/Man did fufill this prophecy. Very good.

Psalm 110. Adonai said to Adoni.
Sorry, but no.

If you believe the bible, then Jesus was not a human but he is God / part of God / son of God. Prophecy not fulfilled.

And I did notice how you avoided replying to everything else in my post.


I am genuinely sorry that I have not responded to each post directed my way. But you do see the amount that come my way, and I only visit this forum when I get the opportunities between work and family.

Ummm, not trying to avoid, but, show me the trinity, and I will promise to respond to everything you ask.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 16, 2011, 01:04:14 PM
Here SOI, this should help if it hasn't been directed toward you before:

Quoting Guide (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,4259.0.html).



Thank you.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 16, 2011, 01:06:14 PM
SOI, When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

This is my direct question....again.





Okay, getting nowhere?

I'll make you happy. Due to my non-understanding, I do not get the question?

A good salesperson resubmits the question to best get the results he likes.

There are claims of "miracles" or magic that you do not believe (for instance the various Creation myths throughout many cultures of the word) and people claim Telepathy, Clainvoyance, and getting you the  winning lottery numbers...I assume you do not believe in ALL of these "miracles."

However Christianity does have miracles you do believe in; like souls, the resserection of Christ, the power of prayer, and so forth.

By what standard do you  believe in Christian Miracles versus non-Christian miracles?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 16, 2011, 01:13:06 PM
SOI, When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

This is my direct question....again.

 





Okay, getting nowhere?

I'll make you happy. Due to my non-understanding, I do not get the question?

A good salesperson resubmits the question to best get the results he likes.

There are claims of "miracles" or magic that you do not believe (for instance the various Creation myths throughout many cultures of the word) and people claim Telepathy, Clainvoyance, and getting you the  winning lottery numberous...I assume you do not believe in ALL of these "miracles."

However Christianity does have miracles you do believe in; like souls, the resserection of Christ, the power of prayer, and so forth.

By what standard do you not believe in Christian Miracles versus non-Christian miracles?

I believe all those powers exist. We have been warned to "flee" from those dark practices. And those that did not, Saul with the soothsayer and raising Samuel, were punished.

I believe thay have the power over me in my life if I allow them when I let Satan take s stronghold.

i.e. doing bad things
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Aaron123 on March 16, 2011, 01:17:01 PM
I guess that maybe why your eyes are not opened is because at the tender age of 6-7 yrs. The Creator knew the future, like you typing that post, and chose not to open your eyes?

I think what's going on inside, hmmm, you do not believe this to be true?

In short, your god chose to condemn a 6 years old to eternal suffering.  He could've done something, anything to save the child.  Instead, he chose not to, even though it was well within his powers to do so.

What a dick.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 16, 2011, 01:24:59 PM
SOI, When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

This is my direct question....again.

 





Okay, getting nowhere?

I'll make you happy. Due to my non-understanding, I do not get the question?

A good salesperson resubmits the question to best get the results he likes.

There are claims of "miracles" or magic that you do not believe (for instance the various Creation myths throughout many cultures of the word) and people claim Telepathy, Clainvoyance, and getting you the  winning lottery numberous...I assume you do not believe in ALL of these "miracles."

However Christianity does have miracles you do believe in; like souls, the resserection of Christ, the power of prayer, and so forth.

By what standard do you not believe in Christian Miracles versus non-Christian miracles?

I believe all those powers exist. We have been warned to "flee" from those dark practices. And those that did not, Saul with the soothsayer and raising Samuel, were punished.

I believe thay have the power over me in my life if I allow them when I let Satan take s stronghold.

i.e. doing bad things

So you believe all of those things exist...even when they contradict each other? And you believe the claims that people can provide winning lottery numbers...even though, logically, if they had that capacity, they would not be charging other for their services, but rather winning the lottery themselves?

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 16, 2011, 01:33:48 PM
SOI, When someone claims something miraculous not within the parameters of Christianity, why do you apply a different standard of proof than you do for miraculous claims within the parameters of Christianity?

This is my direct question....again.

 





Okay, getting nowhere?

I'll make you happy. Due to my non-understanding, I do not get the question?

A good salesperson resubmits the question to best get the results he likes.

There are claims of "miracles" or magic that you do not believe (for instance the various Creation myths throughout many cultures of the word) and people claim Telepathy, Clainvoyance, and getting you the  winning lottery numberous...I assume you do not believe in ALL of these "miracles."

However Christianity does have miracles you do believe in; like souls, the resserection of Christ, the power of prayer, and so forth.

By what standard do you not believe in Christian Miracles versus non-Christian miracles?

I believe all those powers exist. We have been warned to "flee" from those dark practices. And those that did not, Saul with the soothsayer and raising Samuel, were punished.

I believe thay have the power over me in my life if I allow them when I let Satan take s stronghold.

i.e. doing bad things

So you believe all of those things exist...even when they contradict each other? And you believe the claims that people can provide winning lottery numbers...even though, logically, if they had that capacity, they would not be charging other for their services, but rather winning the lottery themselves?


Perhaps there is something not allowing them to win a bunch of money or that spirit giving out winning numbers? It all works together for good eventually (no, not karma).

Uhh, you won't believe any of that.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 16, 2011, 01:34:34 PM
I guess that maybe why your eyes are not opened is because at the tender age of 6-7 yrs. The Creator knew the future, like you typing that post, and chose not to open your eyes?

I think what's going on inside, hmmm, you do not believe this to be true?

In short, your god chose to condemn a 6 years old to eternal suffering.  He could've done something, anything to save the child.  Instead, he chose not to, even though it was well within his powers to do so.

What a dick.




The correct term here is, self condemnation.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: One Above All on March 16, 2011, 02:13:35 PM
The correct term here is, self condemnation.

You're right. The 6 year old CHOSE not to be convinced by a fallacious, contradiction filled book written by a supposedly perfect being. After all, who would choose that? It's so obvious it's true!
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: gonegolfing on March 16, 2011, 02:23:47 PM
 
SOI:

Quote
I believe thay have the power over me in my life if I allow them when I let Satan take s stronghold.


This ^^^ is so pathetic. Honestly, I feel sorry for you. Why must you do that to yourself SOI. Why are you forcing yourself to believe that you're the victim if you do something wrong ? One has a serious issue when one believes that an error in judgement or a moral failure is the result of one allowing themselves to become the victim of a demonic assault.

Does christ dwell in you or not !? If it is no longer you that liveth, but christ that liveth in you, then how is it possible to be possessed by the demonic ? What are you saying ? That one error means that you've allowed satan to kick christ and the holy spirit out of you their dwelling place and build a fortress from which to do his dirtywork ? Did jesus not supposedly conquer sin and satan at Calvary ? If you haven't ask jesus to leave you and he is unmoved from you by a mistake on your part, then what is all this sudden stronghold nonsense about ?

Quit victimizing yourself dude. You're failures are your doing and so just buck up and take responsibility for them. Stop with this woe is me I'm the willing victim of spiritual warfare nonsense and let the buck stop where it should...on your desk.

If christians are going to live that life then they're going to have to quit making jesus out to be a weakling wuss who can be shoved around  at anyones whim, and make him into the sin stopping gun slinger that he is supposed to be.

But of course that's easier said than done isn't it ?  This jesus story ran out of live ammo right from the get go. For centuries all that people of faith have been able to do is fire blanks.  ;)

Talk is cheap. You desperately need some current, reliable, unambiguous, and definitive live ammo to work with if you're going to convince us of the truth and reality of the god idea.   
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 16, 2011, 02:30:08 PM


Perhaps there is something not allowing them to win a bunch of money or that spirit giving out winning numbers? It all works together for good eventually (no, not karma).

Uhh, you won't believe any of that.

No, I will not. You just said the spirit of Soothesayers works from a dark place; Now it works for good. Your cosmology changes to fit whatever statment I make.

Do you or do you not believe there are charletans? People who claim Miracles that are liars. I assume you do.



Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Aaron123 on March 16, 2011, 03:18:00 PM
The correct term here is, self condemnation.

Bullshit.

Funny how you never addressed the parts about god's ability to do something about the child ultimate fate.  Was god able to do something about it?  Was god unwilling to do something about it?  Either way, your god is a total douchebag.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Asmoday on March 16, 2011, 04:43:20 PM
I am genuinely sorry that I have not responded to each post directed my way. But you do see the amount that come my way, and I only visit this forum when I get the opportunities between work and family.

Ummm, not trying to avoid, but, show me the trinity, and I will promise to respond to everything you ask.
I did not say that you overlooked one of my posts, I said that you ignored everything I said except a single point.

Regarding the trinity, I take it you haven't read your bible.
The Gospel of John states: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1) followed by: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us." (John 1:14)
 Jesus himself says "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." (John 8:58), "The Father is in me, and I in him." (John 10:38) and "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father." (John 14:9).

There's more saying the exact same in Paul's letters and also in Revelation but I won't go into that now.

I guess that maybe why your eyes are not opened is because at the tender age of 6-7 yrs. The Creator knew the future, like you typing that post, and chose not to open your eyes?

I think what's going on inside, hmmm, you do not believe this to be true?

In short, your god chose to condemn a 6 years old to eternal suffering.  He could've done something, anything to save the child.  Instead, he chose not to, even though it was well within his powers to do so.

What a dick.
The correct term here is, self condemnation.
I think it has been a very long while since I have seen such horrible reasoning.

SOI, I doubt you have thought this through. So let's have a look at this.

You say this is a case of self-condemnation. But before that you have said that to see the truth in the bible God has to open your eyes. You go on to say that God as an all-knowing God saw into the future and because Astreja would write such horribly atheistic posts in her future, God decided not to open the eyes of Astreja at the age of 6 when she read through the bible.

There is no self condemnation there, SOI.

Astreja writes posts like this because God did not open her eyes. If God had opened her eyes, he would not be writing these posts now. So everything that happens is because God condemned her at the age of 6 for things she would do in the future only because God condemned her at the age of 6.


I know you don't like to hear it, but according to your own argumentation your God alone is to blame.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: frofrodajimmyboy on March 16, 2011, 06:01:00 PM
Huh? There are OneTrueChristianstm? Since when? And who are they, in your book? There are more than 30,000 Christian denominations alone. And many hate each other. And I asked you about the other gods. How are they "not there"? They have just as much proof as your god. The Hindus have the Vedas, the Bhagavad Gita, etc, all holy books that show proof like your god, YHWH, does. So again, why are they not the one true gods?

You still didn't answer the above question, SOI. Are you really that weak in your faith that you won't answer?

Side-note: No Atheist is afraid of hell, nor do they think about heaven. They are fictitious. And so is Satan, just like YHWH. We don't believe in anything in your religion, including all the other religions out there in the world. What's so hard to get?

Second time I am asking you, SOI, to answer me. Thanks.

Edit: Crap, I'm on my husband's profile. Anyway, this was LadyA.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 16, 2011, 06:56:17 PM
Quote
I think it has been a very long while since I have seen such horrible reasoning.

SOI, I doubt you have thought this through. So let's have a look at this.

You say this is a case of self-condemnation. But before that you have said that to see the truth in the bible God has to open your eyes. You go on to say that God as an all-knowing God saw into the future and because Astreja would write such horribly atheistic posts in her future, God decided not to open the eyes of Astreja at the age of 6 when she read through the bible.

There is no self condemnation there, SOI.

Astreja writes posts like this because God did not open her eyes. If God had opened her eyes, he would not be writing these posts now. So everything that happens is because God condemned her at the age of 6 for things she would do in the future only because God condemned her at the age of 6.


I know you don't like to hear it, but according to your own argumentation your God alone is to blame.
Quote




My God is vengeful, especially to those who do not follow his commandments. Instead of placing it all at God's feet, take some responsibility for your own actions, something that has been preached to me thouroughly on these boards.

The 'argumentation" is not difficult to understand cause and effect.

It is many of his non-followers who do not understand his love and wrath. He acts for His own sake and for the sake of His people.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 16, 2011, 06:59:15 PM
Quote
I did not say that you overlooked one of my posts, I said that you ignored everything I said except a single point.

Regarding the trinity, I take it you haven't read your bible.
The Gospel of John states: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1) followed by: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us." (John 1:14)
 Jesus himself says "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." (John 8:58), "The Father is in me, and I in him." (John 10:38) and "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father." (John 14:9).

There's more saying the exact same in Paul's letters and also in Revelation but I won't go into that now.
Quote



Yes, I know my "quoting" sucks.


Now it's your turn to understand what I asked. At best, you may have named a bi(two)-god. Show me the trinity.




P.S. Would it kill anyone here to show a little kindness? Remember, humans can come to the knowledge of moral excellence apart from God??
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 16, 2011, 07:03:48 PM
The correct term here is, self condemnation.

Bullshit.

Funny how you never addressed the parts about god's ability to do something about the child ultimate fate.  Was god able to do something about it?  Was god unwilling to do something about it?  Either way, your god is a total douchebag.





Aaron123

Remain calm. The playground names makes you look brutish.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: LadyLucy on March 16, 2011, 07:10:38 PM
SOI, please, fix your quoting. You can use the Test Area (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/board,28.0.html) to see how you can fix it to your liking. I'll help.

Forgot to mention: Once you get the hang of it in the Test Area, you can edit your posts to have proper quoting. Mods/Admins don't like seeing excessive/inability to use/bad use of quoting.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 16, 2011, 07:13:13 PM
Huh? There are OneTrueChristianstm? Since when? And who are they, in your book? There are more than 30,000 Christian denominations alone. And many hate each other. And I asked you about the other gods. How are they "not there"? They have just as much proof as your god. The Hindus have the Vedas, the Bhagavad Gita, etc, all holy books that show proof like your god, YHWH, does. So again, why are they not the one true gods?

You still didn't answer the above question, SOI. Are you really that weak in your faith that you won't answer?

Side-note: No Atheist is afraid of hell, nor do they think about heaven. They are fictitious. And so is Satan, just like YHWH. We don't believe in anything in your religion, including all the other religions out there in the world. What's so hard to get?

Second time I am asking you, SOI, to answer me. Thanks.

Edit: Crap, I'm on my husband's profile. Anyway, this was LadyA.




The woman encompasses the man.

God is evident in all things. His invisible attributes are, everywhere. His power has been clearly seen. Being understood through all that has been made. But your heart has become darkened.

This is the best I will do for you.

You are not afraid of heaven or hell, fine. But you are concerned/fearful about dying, and you feel your reward is now. And you will reap your reward, now.

The Kingdom of God is eternal life.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: LadyLucy on March 16, 2011, 07:23:35 PM
The woman encompasses the man.

Ok?

God is evident in all things. His invisible attributes are, everywhere. His power has been clearly seen. Being understood through all that has been made. But your heart has become darkened.

But the Hindus have miracles, too, done by their own gods. (Video below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiyTogk9kp4# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiyTogk9kp4#)

And of course, people want to debunk the "miracle". Why not debunk the miracles of Christianity, too, as well as the other religions?

This is the best I will do for you.

I don't know... I wish you could explain farther. Frankly, I don't like seeing cryptic statements. I want direct answers. Not necessarily essay-long answers, but just paragraph-long would suffice.

You are not afraid of heaven or hell, fine. But you are concerned/fearful about dying, and you feel your reward is now. And you will reap your reward, now.

But that's the thing: I don't believe in heaven, nor hell, nor any other fictional plane of existence. I don't feel anything about them, just like I don't feel anything about the Mushroom Kingdom. And why are you suddenly making assumptions that I am concerned/fearful about dying? I am not, I assure you. In fact, the day I know I'm going to die, I will embrace it. When my time comes, that's it. There's nothing to be afraid of. Suffering simply ceases, any type of suffering whatsoever. And I know I lived a good life, for what it was worth.

What reward? I don't know what "reward" you are talking about. Again, I don't like cryptic passages. I want direct answers, not a merry-go-round. Say something, or don't, because you are sounding more and more strange...

The Kingdom of God is eternal life.

Ok? I hope you didn't mean to preach there. Keep that tid-bit to yourself. Let me fix that...

The Kingdom of God is eternal life.

Ah, much better knowing that preaching tid-bit is not there. Run along.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Aaron123 on March 16, 2011, 07:25:03 PM
Aaron123

Remain calm. The playground names makes you look brutish.

Once again; you fail to address whenever god could've saved the child or not.  It's very telling how you dance around the issue, and instead, try to make it about me.  Not buying it.

I'll ask again:  Was god willing to save the child?  If so, why didn't he?  If he wasn't, why do you accept his judgement? Astreja could've been awaiting a return to her lord and savior.  But instead, the lord and savior decided Astreja could rot in hell for all he cared.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Asmoday on March 16, 2011, 07:34:17 PM
My God is vengeful, especially to those who do not follow his commandments. Instead of placing it all at God's feet, take some responsibility for your own actions, something that has been preached to me thouroughly on these boards.

The 'argumentation" is not difficult to understand cause and effect.

It is many of his non-followers who do not understand his love and wrath. He acts for His own sake and for the sake of His people.
I will explain it to you again (This time in single sentences and with the important parts are in big):

You said that to see the truth in the bible God has to open the eyes of the one reading the bible.

In Astreja's case you said God did not open her eyes because of what she will do in the future (in this case writing atheistic posts on a forum).

But her actions now happen because God did not open her eyes in the past.

So in Astreja's case God withheld the eye opening because of actions that will happen in the future, but those actions only happen because God withheld the eye opening.

God doesn't let 6 year old Astreja understand the bible because of Astreja's actions in the future that only happen because God did not let her understand the bible in the past in the first place..

I don't know how to make it any more obvious for you.

With such a God there is no responsibility for your own actions because God decides for you. He either condemns you or opens your eyes and in both cases it is not your choice.


Yes, I know my "quoting" sucks.
I did not speak about your quoting. I said you that out of all the things I mentioned in my post, you only picked up a single point.


Quote
Now it's your turn to understand what I asked. At best, you may have named a bi(two)-god. Show me the trinity.
Why should I show you the trinity?

I showed you that Jesus, as described in the bible, was no human, which means he has not fulfilled that part of the messianic prophecy.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: screwtape on March 16, 2011, 07:40:34 PM

Hi, SOI


Bullshit.

Funny how you never addressed the parts about god's ability to do something about the child ultimate fate.  Was god able to do something about it?  Was god unwilling to do something about it?  Either way, your god is a total douchebag.

Aaron123

Remain calm. The playground names makes you look brutish.


Nevertheless, the brute has a point.  Could you please address it?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Larissa238 on March 16, 2011, 09:06:48 PM
God must be desperate, using folks like SOI who pronounce these confusing, weak-ass arguments to convey his garbled message.  Pitifully lame.

He also sent people like NTS, AlexBP, and University Pastor. Think what that means.

The reason that they give such bad answers is because they are not prepared, as the Bible tells them not to. That is, if they consider us "authorities"- Luke 12:11-12 "When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say." That, or the Holy Spirit is one drugged-out spirit, since the Christians here say things completely opposite of each other.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 16, 2011, 09:11:47 PM
God must be desperate, using folks like SOI who pronounce these confusing, weak-ass arguments to convey his garbled message.  Pitifully lame.

He also sent people like NTS, AlexBP, and University Pastor. Think what that means.

The reason that they give such bad answers is because they are not prepared, as the Bible tells them not to. That is, if they consider us "authorities"- Luke 12:11-12 "When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say." That, or the Holy Spirit is one drugged-out spirit, since the Christians here say things completely opposite of each other.

As I recently explained to MiC in the other thread. The biblical god is a complete idiot. Hence, the theists we get.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Astreja on March 17, 2011, 12:20:18 AM
I guess that maybe why your eyes are not opened is because at the tender age of 6-7 yrs. The Creator knew the future, like you typing that post, and chose not to open your eyes?

If that were so, SOI, then the "free will" defence to the Problem of Evil is pure bollocks.  How can someone be free to determine their own destiny if an omnipotent, omniscient being is dealing with them based on things they have yet to choose?

Quote
I think what's going on inside, hmmm, you do not believe this to be true?

Precisely.  I see the Bible as fiction with a smattering of historical and pseudo-historical decoration.  I have never seen the god of the Bible as real, and always thought the story of Jesus coming back from the dead was a bit on the silly side.

I'd really like a Talking Snake™ of My very own, though.  :D
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 17, 2011, 08:03:03 AM


Instead of placing it all at God's feet, take some responsibility for your own actions

Actually we do. That is what being an Atheist is about. We have no all knowing, all powerful being that created us, knowing full well what our genes and environment would lead us to.

Take the case of "Billy the Kidd." He lived a quiet life of an upstanding citizen...until circumstances forced him to kill a man to protect his family farm. Unfortunately, he apparent got off on the way it made him feel, and became the imfamous man we know today.

If you believe in an all knowing all powerful God, he could have had rain more that year, preventing the tension that led to the first killing, and Billy would have never harmed anyone.

However that didn't happen.

So, if you accept God as you do...he could have foreseen this event. He is  just as responsible for the incident as a parent that hands a 7 year old a bottle of Jack and the cay keys.

If you don't, as we do, then Billy was responsible for his own choices after the first killing. It is that simple.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 17, 2011, 08:09:40 AM

And of course, people want to debunk the "miracle". Why not debunk the miracles of Christianity, too, as well as the other religions?



My point I've been trying to have him answer directly for several posts. He used the usual dodge of "dark powers" and...laugably...the exact opposite of "working out for the best," plus ignoring the whole question would an omnipotent deity for allowing his opponents ANY SUPERNATURAL POWERS OVER HUMAN AFFAIRS even if we were to allow for the dubious "free will" defence for human actions.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 17, 2011, 08:59:01 AM
The correct term here is, self condemnation.

Bullshit.

Funny how you never addressed the parts about god's ability to do something about the child ultimate fate.  Was god able to do something about it?  Was god unwilling to do something about it?  Either way, your god is a total douchebag.



No God was not able to do anything about it.

I believe in free will, and so do you.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Dante on March 17, 2011, 09:11:56 AM

No God was not able to do anything about it.

Not exactly omnipotent then, huh?

And don't try to bring the free will argument into it, as that notion is easily debunked. With all the many people in the bible who witnessed miracles, or saw god, as well as all the current xtians who believe god talks to them, or statues bleed, it seems that your god has no problem showing himself to any fervent believer. Your freewill argument fails.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Ambassador Pony on March 17, 2011, 09:15:56 AM
Quote
No God was not able to do anything about it.

What else can your god not do?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: screwtape on March 17, 2011, 10:15:27 AM
Your freewill argument fails.

To be fair, SOI has not made a free will argument yet.  He just said "free will" and that was about all.  The argument you are probably talking about is the one we have seen fail here repeatedly.  Probability is on your side.  But since SOI has not elaborated, we cannot be sure that is the one he is talking about.  He may surprise us.  Sure, it's a long shot.  But I would rather not be presumptuous.

That is the problem I am having with SOI.  You have to drag every last bit of information out of him.  He says "x" and people jump on it, but then he says "I don't mean x that way". 

SOI, why are you here?  People come here to talk, but you don't seem interested in talking.  You give terse answers and speak cryptically.  Why are you making us work so hard to understand you? 

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: gonegolfing on March 17, 2011, 10:32:14 AM


Screw, we'll take anything we can get out of this cat since it's slim pickings  :P


The correct term here is, self condemnation.

Bullshit.

Funny how you never addressed the parts about god's ability to do something about the child ultimate fate.  Was god able to do something about it?  Was god unwilling to do something about it?  Either way, your god is a total douchebag.



No God was not able to do anything about it.

I believe in free will, and so do you.

There you have it Ladies & Gentlemen !! ;) SOI's admission and conclusion that god itself has no freewill, and is in fact not omnipotent.

If your supposed perfect god cannot act at its own discretion, then the hypothesis weakens to a point of no return. If a god is limited by its own decisions, as you are clearly indicating, then is this god any different than you SOI ? Of course not. You've just refuted your own argument and in fact have proved that the god idea is a human construct.

Only the human mind can have a mental lapse and conceive of the faulty thought that a god is both all powerful and yet at the same time limited in its actions.

SOI do you see the contradiction on top of this ?  You're claiming that a non-omnimpotent being with no free will has the power to create something with free will.  Sorry, that's an irrational baseless claim and is not allowed.

If you were created in god's image, then your belief in free will flies in the face of what you claim about god. Therefore if that image of god has no free will, as you claim, then you have no free will. I don't think a god would be too happy about you saying you've got something that it doesn't have >:(

You have got to do better mate.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 17, 2011, 10:49:47 AM

You have got to do better mate.

This is probably the impetus behind his behaviour. He knows that he can't actually make his case, so he relies on saying nothing and sounding nuts.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: LadyLucy on March 17, 2011, 12:09:48 PM
And of course, people want to debunk the "miracle". Why not debunk the miracles of Christianity, too, as well as the other religions?

My point I've been trying to have him answer directly for several posts. He used the usual dodge of "dark powers" and...laugably...the exact opposite of "working out for the best," plus ignoring the whole question would an omnipotent deity for allowing his opponents ANY SUPERNATURAL POWERS OVER HUMAN AFFAIRS even if we were to allow for the dubious "free will" defence for human actions.

I wish he would answer the question, too, but I doubt he will because he realizes that it would be "doubting God", although it was a SIMPLE question that requires a direct answer from HIS point of view. How boring it is to have him no answer. -Snore-

Hey SOI, could you please answer the following question:

If miracles happen for people of other religions, how are they less of miracles than the ones of the religion of Christianity, and if a Christian wants to debunk the miracle of that other religion, why not go ahead and debunk their own?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Dante on March 17, 2011, 12:19:03 PM
Your freewill argument fails.

To be fair, SOI has not made a free will argument yet.  He just said "free will" and that was about all.  The argument you are probably talking about is the one we have seen fail here repeatedly.  Probability is on your side.  But since SOI has not elaborated, we cannot be sure that is the one he is talking about.  He may surprise us.  Sure, it's a long shot.  But I would rather not be presumptuous.

It's St. Patty's Day, and my middle name is Presumptuous. Shamus Presumptuous O'Atheist III.

I figured I would just nip it in the bud, so we don't have to waste 2 pages on why the argument fails, because I prophecize that plenty more cyberspace will be wasted in this thread already.

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 17, 2011, 12:28:52 PM

You have got to do better mate.

This is probably the impetus behind his behaviour. He knows that he can't actually make his case, so he relies on saying nothing and sounding nuts.

Perhaps that is being a bit uncharitable. I think it is a matter of, probably unconciously, using the same linguistic slight of hand that has been used on him, particularly in the King James Bible: Cryptic Portentious statements in archaic language order to sound wise. However apparenly not realizing he has an audience that knows an illusion when they see it.

I mean seriously look at some of the statements:


The woman encompasses the man.

God is evident in all things. His invisible attributes are, everywhere. His power has been clearly seen. Being understood through all that has been made. But your heart has become darkened.



I could go on about supernaturals in my life, such has clouds,the sun, and moon.

I Believed before I saw, and my Father rewarded me with the early rains.



I believe thay have the power over me in my life if I allow them when I let Satan take s stronghold.

Ok here it is, you don't want to validate the Bible (for some valid reasons), but yet it speaks of you.

It speaks of future times from ancient days, and I know you find this ridiculous.


Freedom.

What is freedom? All the materialistic things in our lives, we are slaves to them.

This great chasm between us, can you not see it? I do not mean to speak at, or preach to all of you. In fact, if you knew me personally, we would cherish each other and you would see my walk.


SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM


For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I speak to all who hear this way, grocery store or not.

The Kingdom of God has come near you and you have rejected it! Jerusalem, you who stone her prophets!


Humans who desire, peace, will never again learn war, people will not rise up against each other anymore, the weak will be strong, and He will remove there yoke from them.



Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 17, 2011, 12:37:30 PM

You have got to do better mate.

This is probably the impetus behind his behaviour. He knows that he can't actually make his case, so he relies on saying nothing and sounding nuts.

Perhaps that is being a bit uncharitable. I think it is a matter of, probably unconciously, using the same linguistic slight of hand that has been used on him, particularly in the King James Bible: Cryptic Portentious statements in archaic language order to sound wise. However apparenly not realizing he has an audience that knows an illusion when they see it.

I would agree with this, if it weren't for his constant refusal to respond to things. And the way that he makes his claims such as saying something and then later claiming to have meant something different once called on it. His posts seem to indicate an intentional degree of dishonesty.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 17, 2011, 01:05:07 PM

You have got to do better mate.

This is probably the impetus behind his behaviour. He knows that he can't actually make his case, so he relies on saying nothing and sounding nuts.

Perhaps that is being a bit uncharitable. I think it is a matter of, probably unconciously, using the same linguistic slight of hand that has been used on him, particularly in the King James Bible: Cryptic Portentious statements in archaic language order to sound wise. However apparenly not realizing he has an audience that knows an illusion when they see it.

I would agree with this, if it weren't for his constant refusal to respond to things. And the way that he makes his claims such as saying something and then later claiming to have meant something different once called on it. His posts seem to indicate an intentional degree of dishonesty.

You see dishonesty, where I see a lack of intellect. Either of us could by right. There's a saying for this situation known as Grey's Law:

Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistingushable from malice.

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 17, 2011, 01:10:44 PM

You see dishonesty, where I see a lack of intellect. Either of us could by right. There's a saying for this situation known as Grey's Law:

Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistingushable from malice.

No, I see both. When I suggested that as a motivation for him. I was speaking of him acting in such a way unconsciously. I don't think he's smart enough to do this deliberately. Merely that this is what seems to be going on in his psyche.I think the language he was exposed to has imprinted itself on him and influenced the exact nature of his dishonesty, hence why he uses so many of the words.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: screwtape on March 17, 2011, 01:39:25 PM
Grey's Law:

Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistingushable from malice.

brilliant.  Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: gonegolfing on March 17, 2011, 01:50:31 PM
Hatter23:

Quote
However apparenly not realizing he has an audience that knows an illusion when they see it.

This is what's laughable about most of the theists who come to WWGHA. They come thinking that perhaps we're missing something, or haven't heard all the fine details that we need to hear. The trouble is though, that when they begin to explain these fine details, as they know them, they also begin to drown in these theological drivellings realizing that they can't swim like they thought they could in the turbulent waters of hard core debating.

If SOI wants to come here and do cerebral white water, then he better have his intellectual shit together if he's going to survive  ;)
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: wright on March 17, 2011, 02:35:56 PM
^^^
This has been my observation too. They don't have much if any experience with debating on a forum where they're in the minority, and find it a very strange and stressful environment. Too stressful for most to stick around.

I also think most of them haven't really thought their beliefs through, which is an inherent advantage for those atheists (like myself) who are former believers. Most of us didn't want to lose our faith; many of us prayed and sought help to try and stop doing so.

We prayed, rationalized and apologized to and for the god/s we believed in, and here we are. And when theists show up, confidently proclaiming those same rationalizations as self-evident truths... I can understand why some of us have little civility to spare.

SOI, I try to give newcomers like you the benefit of doubt. You aren't used to this kind of debate. You have some strange ideas about atheism, having had little experience with the concept before. I don't expect you to abandon your faith just from what you learn here, but hopefully you will gain a useful perspective.

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Aaron123 on March 17, 2011, 03:26:42 PM
No God was not able to do anything about it.

I believe in free will, and so do you.

I'm suprised you've just flat-out stated your god is not omnipotent.   :?

Without any context, it's hard to tell what you meant with that free will crack.  Couldn't god have appeared before Astreja and stated "Here I am!" like he did with Moses and a dozen other characters in the bible?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: velkyn on March 17, 2011, 03:43:16 PM
No God was not able to do anything about it.
I believe in free will, and so do you.
I accept that there is a limited free will.  No matter how much I want to, I will not be able to fly to the moon on my own. 

When Christians claim free will, it's a sign that they've never actually paid attention to their bible or that they simply ignore the parts that show that their god does not allow free will.  We have the pharoah, who God forced to reject God's own miracles so God could show off, and in the process murdered the "first-born" who had no choice in the matter.  Then we have ever time God supposedly interfered with human events.  How can puny humans resist an omnipotent being?  how do miracles work with free will, SOI?  If I claim there was a miracle that God stopped someone from harming me, the free will of those who would harm me ceases to exist. 

Well, with your claims, maybe he's not so omnipotent at all.  He does have trouble with snakes, iron chariots and actually beating his archnemesis to the point he has to repeatedly acquiese to him.  Then we have Romans 9 which has that your god intentionally creates people to damn and various places throughout the gospels where your "messiah" says that some people are intentionally kept from understanding his words. Finally, we have the Bible and Christians constantly saying "everything is God's will".  If so, then we have no free will, if God controlls everthing we will and can do, if universe is set in stone. 

Again and again, we see that there is no free will in the bible.  It is all about fear and obediance and outright control by God. 
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: LadyLucy on March 17, 2011, 03:48:09 PM
SOI, I thank you for enlightening me. I turned to Islam because I realized stupid Christians are mind-less and are NOT strong enough in their religion. Islam is the true way: EVERYONE is strong in their faith, never scared to answer questions from my experience with Muslims on this forum, unlike you, who keeps avoiding and stonewalling everywhere you go, being too cryptic to give answers. Allah has all the answers. Perhaps you should turn to him instead, rather than your false god and false book. Read the Koran. Be enlightened in his name.

Shalom. Be saved. Being a Christian does not help you. You lack faith. You are not strong enough.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 17, 2011, 04:29:19 PM
Hatter23:

Quote
However apparenly not realizing he has an audience that knows an illusion when they see it.

This is what's laughable about most of the theists who come to WWGHA. They come thinking that perhaps we're missing something, or haven't heard all the fine details that we need to hear. The trouble is though, that when they begin to explain these fine details, as they know them, they also begin to drown in these theological drivellings realizing that they can't swim like they thought they could in the turbulent waters of hard core debating.

If SOI wants to come here and do cerebral white water, then he better have his intellectual shit together if he's going to survive  ;)

Because, in my not so humble opinion, there is no actual hard substance to the theist argument. I have repeatedly, and at length  overheard the hard core theist talk in my office. I have a baptist bishop in the cubicle next to me and she sends a great deal of her time talking with members of her faith. They sing song back an forth empty feel good statement, each trying to, ever so slightly, out do each other in their praises of God and Jesus.

"God wants X" or "God hates Y" or "Praise God for Z" without any apparent need for justification. No argument, no cogent disagreement. If someone counters any of these statements it is met with "You are just bad" said in a jocular fashion. Not only do they have nothing HARD to hang their hat on...the actual environment of church culture seems to discorage debate in any meaningful sense.





Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Alzael on March 17, 2011, 04:42:32 PM
Agreed. It's interesting to note that SOI has yet to return to this particular thread and answer to anything.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: gonegolfing on March 18, 2011, 08:43:05 AM

Quote
Because, in my not so humble opinion, there is no actual hard substance to the theist argument. I have repeatedly, and at length  overheard the hard core theist talk in my office. I have a baptist bishop in the cubicle next to me and she sends a great deal of her time talking with members of her faith. They sing song back an forth empty feel good statement, each trying to, ever so slightly, out do each other in their praises of God and Jesus.

"God wants X" or "God hates Y" or "Praise God for Z" without any apparent need for justification. No argument, no cogent disagreement. If someone counters any of these statements it is met with "You are just bad" said in a jocular fashion. Not only do they have nothing HARD to hang their hat on...the actual environment of church culture seems to discorage debate in any meaningful sense.

Well said and so true.

I can remember at work when another theist and myself would sit around discussing the things of god  &) with all this false humility and patting each other on the backs, but on occasion an older Irish fella would make his way over to us to join in. We dreaded seeing him coming because it meant we had to actually think about what we believed, and defend it to someone who we knew to be intellectually superior to us and would often times embarrass us with his Irish wit and power to think clearly.

He'd leave and all we could say was "The poor man". When in fact we were the pathetic ones and just too arrogant and stupid to realize and admit it  :o
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: William on March 18, 2011, 09:08:05 AM
They sing song back an forth empty feel good statement, each trying to, ever so slightly, out do each other in their praises of God and Jesus.

Yes, well said, it's a glory-pissing contest.  +1

So many theists need to be seen and heard to be obviously faithful - it's all about outward display - behaving the motions and spurting the mumbo-jumbo.  It's a cover up for the doubts and emptiness inside.  They never realize that all those "faithful" around them are engaging in the same fake behaviour. They think everyone else is for real.  And if only they can mix it with the best of them - somehow they'll also be part of it and be saved.  That God will be too busy to look beyond their skin deep obsequious expressions of faith to the fearful child-mind inside.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4680530796_8457004f2e_z.jpg)
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: jtk73 on March 18, 2011, 09:58:04 AM
God is evident in all things. His invisible attributes are, everywhere. His power has been clearly seen. Being understood through all that has been made. But your heart has become darkened.

My bold - If his attributes are invisible...how can they be seen???? I call this xtian double-speak. Making confusing, contradicting claims without actually saying anything at all.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Ivellios on March 18, 2011, 10:13:53 AM
And of course, people want to debunk the "miracle". Why not debunk the miracles of Christianity, too, as well as the other religions?

My point I've been trying to have him answer directly for several posts. He used the usual dodge of "dark powers" and...laugably...the exact opposite of "working out for the best," plus ignoring the whole question would an omnipotent deity for allowing his opponents ANY SUPERNATURAL POWERS OVER HUMAN AFFAIRS even if we were to allow for the dubious "free will" defence for human actions.

I wish he would answer the question, too, but I doubt he will because he realizes that it would be "doubting God", although it was a SIMPLE question that requires a direct answer from HIS point of view. How boring it is to have him no answer. -Snore-

Hey SOI, could you please answer the following question:

If miracles happen for people of other religions, how are they less of miracles than the ones of the religion of Christianity, and if a Christian wants to debunk the miracle of that other religion, why not go ahead and debunk their own?

This is what... the 4th time you asked him this and he keeps ignoring you? You would think an all knowing god would definately help someone trying to help him find his lost sheep. god likes shooting himself in his own foot aparrently.

edit: clearly my typing is getting worse but my desire to write clearly makes me hit the 'modify' button.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on March 18, 2011, 10:19:25 AM
They sing song back an forth empty feel good statement, each trying to, ever so slightly, out do each other in their praises of God and Jesus.

Yes, well said, it's a glory-pissing contest.  +1

So many theists need to be seen and heard to be obviously faithful - it's all about outward display - behaving the motions and spurting the mumbo-jumbo.  It's a cover up for the doubts and emptiness inside.  They never realize that all those "faithful" around them are engaging in the same fake behaviour. They think everyone else is for real.  And if only they can mix it with the best of them - somehow they'll also be part of it and be saved.  That God will be too busy to look beyond their skin deep obsequious expressions of faith to the fearful child-mind inside.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4680530796_8457004f2e_z.jpg)

Idon't quite ascribe to the "they don't really believe" theory. When they are in Jesus talk, I think they really do believe....with the fearful child mind. But that's part of the point, the appeal, of the Christian religion as it is practiced by the masses. You don't need to think, you can just have your emotions as your thoughts...and because said emotions are now connected with THE ALMIGHTY OMNIPOTENT CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, those emotions are both validated and important.

Think about it, when a person is angry, being sujugated or at war...they talk of God's wrath.
If they are in a concilatory or guilty mood they talk of God's forgiveness
If they are using, as one said, false humitity to bolster themselves, they talk of God's glory
If they are feeling sollomn, they talk of Jesus's sacrifice.

Whatever you are feeling at any given moment is better than acceptable, it is good that you are feeling it ;bacause it reflect THE ALMIGHY OMNIPOTENT CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE.

No hard "thinking" is required, in actuality it is discouraged.

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: William on March 18, 2011, 11:09:02 AM
I don't quite ascribe to the "they don't really believe" theory. When they are in Jesus talk, I think they really do believe....with the fearful child mind.

Yes Hatter23, I understand your point.  Certainly that is why I'm comfortable with calling faith a delusion.  But I think they operate in two modes, depending on circumstances.

Where I'm coming from is that whenever I've isolated a theist friend, one-on-one, and gently probed - they have admitted to being troubled by serious doubts.   Granted, it's often with pride that they admit this to me, and that they have the strength to persevere in faith regardless.  But in a moment of trust and honesty they will concede they have problems with accepting many of the beliefs expected by their particular religion.  I have come across this numerous times over several years. 

Just today - a few hours ago, I had a close theist friend tell me that I was "upsetting his balance"  ;D when I sent him that video link on the dissection of the giraffe pharyngeal nerve.  Three days ago, we had breakfast together and chatted at length about Genesis, and he agreed with me that Creationism is absurd.  We also chatted about the randomness of natural disasters and suffering, and he agreed that it is totally inexplicable and unfair.  He even asked me to give him material to help him understand what is wrong with the bible.  But now back in his normal circle he has switched on an acting role of projecting solidarity in faith - as expected by the other Christians around him. 

I cannot conceive that anyone successfully blocks out the evidence and logical case against the myths in the bible without comprehending the significance, or at least seeing a glimpse of the point in the atheist argument.  I think they are pretending it has no impact on them - and hiding away deep in the flock of sheep, hoping they wont be noticed.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: gonegolfing on March 18, 2011, 02:42:45 PM

Quote
I cannot conceive that anyone successfully blocks out the evidence and logical case against the myths in the bible without comprehending the significance, or at least seeing a glimpse of the point in the atheist argument.  I think they are pretending it has no impact on them - and hiding away deep in the flock of sheep, hoping they wont be noticed.

I agree with this. Then you get a guy like SOI who feels he needs to stand out. To be a shepherd. In fact, he feels he needs to come here and look for lost sheep that he as a shepherd can bring back into the fold. I believe this to be true of all theists that come here.

Yet, when they get here, they realize that the sheep here are tougher than they thought and refuse to be lead anywhere, and this either disappoints them, angers them, or both. Rarely do they comprehend, or even try to, why we won't be lead :? Then confused by our response to them, they return back to the flock frustrated, continue to wallow in the mud with the others, and because of the fear that god knows their thoughts, proceed to shake their heads thinking "fine! I tried god ! they can stay lost then ! they'll suffer your consequences for their stubbornness !! ".

In my case, they fail to grasp that I'm not lost and voluntarily left the flock of my own volition. I didn't lose my way by accident or following other sheep. I know exactly where I am, I know exactly why I'm there, I know that it's a much better place to be in, I know that I need to lead myself through life, and I know that I certainly have no desire to be lead by a shepherd &) or be part of a flock again  >:(   
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: SOI on March 19, 2011, 07:50:07 PM
Quote
Yet, when they get here, they realize that the sheep here are tougher than they thought and refuse to be lead anywhere, and this either disappoints them, angers them, or both. Rarely do they comprehend, or even try to, why we won't be lead :? Then confused by our response to them, they return back to the flock frustrated, continue to wallow in the mud with the others, and because of the fear that god knows their thoughts, proceed to shake their heads thinking "fine! I tried god ! they can stay lost then ! they'll suffer your consequences for their stubbornness !! ".

In my case, they fail to grasp that I'm not lost and voluntarily left the flock of my own volition. I didn't lose my way by accident or following other sheep. I know exactly where I am, I know exactly why I'm there, I know that it's a much better place to be in, I know that I need to lead myself through life, and I know that I certainly have no desire to be lead by a shepherd &) or be part of a flock again


Not too frustrated.    :)

Lost sheep would not be why I am here. See, lost sheep belong to the flock.

You came across my path. I'm here for some reason/awhile.

Have a great weekend.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Azdgari on March 20, 2011, 02:41:31 AM
He did not come across your path.  You came across his.  Why are you here?
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: whom_seek_ye on April 25, 2011, 06:17:58 PM
The true GOD is not the GOD of man,s Bible

This false Imposter
was placed in his position by the true GOD

in order to find ..THOSE.. that truly seek him

Very few would seek past this imposter
to find the real GOD

Many would rather come to the conclusion
that there is no GOD at all

If you are one of those few
who seek the real GOD and the real TRUTH

then keep your eye upon my posts
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: xphobe on April 25, 2011, 07:42:24 PM
then keep your eye upon my posts

Oh believe me, we are.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Jezebel on April 25, 2011, 09:47:56 PM
That god that you guys don't believe in DOESN'T EXIST! But the one I'm talking about DOES exist and you should believe in him even though there's no more evidence for this one than the other one that you didn't believe in and who wasn't real.

Wow. Mental.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: plethora on April 26, 2011, 04:28:43 AM
If you are one of those few
who seek the real GOD and the real TRUTH

then keep your eye upon my posts

Oh boy ... another OneTrueTheistTM who is "super-extra special" because he knows the reeeaaal god and fully understands all of said god's thoughts and intentions[1].

Please, oh "special" friend ... do enlighten us by providing evidence of your unoriginal cliché.
 1. Classic SPAG
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: fishjie on December 14, 2011, 08:28:02 PM
Wow I just read this awful thread and I will keep it in mind anytime I want a link to show the stupidity of some e-preachers. 

Wow.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: eartheconomyspirit on December 19, 2011, 02:19:32 AM
Q:Why didn't God ever reveal himself?

A:If you take God as analogy for spirituality, then you have answer.

Q:Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

A: Forgiveness is the cornerstone of finding peace when feeling an injustice has been done. It's a gift to yourself as well as an example for the offending person.

Q:What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

A: Through learning that you share the potential to maintain a still mind, and in that stillness you find an unshakeable peace and joy for the living
experience. The reward is life itself assuming freedom from ego.

Q:What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

A: In 1945, some authentically ancient documents where found. One of those Documents has been called the Gospel of Thomas. interestingly, it's not acknowledged by the mainstream  Christian religion(s). The Gospel of Thomas contains 114 sayings attributed to a man called Jesus.  in this Gospel you aren't presented with any mysticism. It's more a dialogue on spirituality, and an insightful one at that.  Mysticism leads to a requirement of faith unless you have the good fortune to witness the mystical event. Faith (think suicide bomber) can be easily abused. After reading the Gospel of Thomas I feel confident that the mysticism is not Jesus. in the Gospel of Thomas it's not about eternal life, just living a good life, in my opinion.

59..Jesus said, "Look to the living one as long as you live, otherwise you might die and then try to see the living one, and you will be unable to see."
 
An obvious truth, perhaps. Spirituality is a living experience and truth.     
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: velkyn on December 19, 2011, 11:26:55 AM
Q:Why didn't God ever reveal himself?
A:If you take God as analogy for spirituality, then you have answer.
Spirituality: 1: something that in ecclesiastical law belongs to the church or to a cleric as such 2: clergy
3 : sensitivity or attachment to religious values  4: the quality or state of being spiritual : of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal <spiritual needs> 2
a : of or relating to sacred matters <spiritual songs> b : ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal <spiritual authority> <lords spiritual> 3: concerned with religious values 4: related or joined in spirit <our spiritual home> <his spiritual heir> 5a : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena [/quote]  I’m guessing you are wanting to make up your own definition.  Tell the difference between this god and spirituality. 
Quote
Q:Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?
A: Forgiveness is the cornerstone of finding peace when feeling an injustice has been done. It's a gift to yourself as well as an example for the offending person.
Pretty amusing since this god (and I am assume that you are talking about the bible one) wasn’t all about forgivness at all, but revenge constantly all through the bible despite the claim of turning the other cheek.  He’s one of those do as I say, not as I do idiots.  And I wonder, do you think we should have just allowed Hitler to kill all those people and forgiven him once he was done? 
Quote
Q:What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!
A: Through learning that you share the potential to maintain a still mind, and in that stillness you find an unshakeable peace and joy for the living experience. The reward is life itself assuming freedom from ego.
  Nice woo there. And I have my rewards already, a battle well fought for a good reason, the knowledge that I’ve made a difference. I don’t have to curl up and examine my belly button. 
Quote
Q:What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???
A: In 1945, some authentically ancient documents where found. One of those Documents has been called the Gospel of Thomas. interestingly, it's not acknowledged by the mainstream  Christian religion(s). The Gospel of Thomas contains 114 sayings attributed to a man called Jesus.  in this Gospel you aren't presented with any mysticism. It's more a dialogue on spirituality, and an insightful one at that.  Mysticism leads to a requirement of faith unless you have the good fortune to witness the mystical event. Faith (think suicide bomber) can be easily abused. After reading the Gospel of Thomas I feel confident that the mysticism is not Jesus. in the Gospel of Thomas it's not about eternal life, just living a good life, in my opinion.
oooh, authentically old documents.  Same happened when they found the Egyptial “book of the dead”.  Makes it no more real than these bits of Christian nonsense, all of the books that they can’t agree on but are all et to claim that each one of them knows the “truth”.  And I do honestly enjoy one more version of the excuse why there aren’t actual miracles to see. 
Quote
59..Jesus said, "Look to the living one as long as you live, otherwise you might die and then try to see the living one, and you will be unable to see."
An obvious truth, perhaps. Spirituality is a living experience and truth. 
Not as far as any evidence shows.  Each theist wants to claim that they have some special knowledge and every single one of you fails at demonstrating that.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: screwtape on December 19, 2011, 11:57:11 AM
eartheconomyspirit,

welcome to our forum.  Please note that my green text means I am addressing you in my role as a moderator, not a participant.  You post:

Q:Why didn't God ever reveal himself?
....

is considered preaching.  It is preaching because you make a lot of religious claims and provide no evidence they are true.  Preaching is not allowed here.  If you would include reasons for why you think we should believe your preposterous claims, then it would be a valid discussion.  Thanks.

Regards,
Screwtape
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on December 19, 2011, 05:58:23 PM
Q:Why didn't God ever reveal himself?

A:If you take God as analogy for spirituality, then you have answer.

Q:Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

A: Forgiveness is the cornerstone of finding peace when feeling an injustice has been done. It's a gift to yourself as well as an example for the offending person.

Q:What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

A: Through learning that you share the potential to maintain a still mind, and in that stillness you find an unshakeable peace and joy for the living
experience. The reward is life itself assuming freedom from ego.

Q:What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

A: In 1945, some authentically ancient documents where found. One of those Documents has been called the Gospel of Thomas. interestingly, it's not acknowledged by the mainstream  Christian religion(s). The Gospel of Thomas contains 114 sayings attributed to a man called Jesus.  in this Gospel you aren't presented with any mysticism. It's more a dialogue on spirituality, and an insightful one at that.  Mysticism leads to a requirement of faith unless you have the good fortune to witness the mystical event. Faith (think suicide bomber) can be easily abused. After reading the Gospel of Thomas I feel confident that the mysticism is not Jesus. in the Gospel of Thomas it's not about eternal life, just living a good life, in my opinion.

59..Jesus said, "Look to the living one as long as you live, otherwise you might die and then try to see the living one, and you will be unable to see."
 
An obvious truth, perhaps. Spirituality is a living experience and truth.   

All you've done is substitute one undefined unprovable term for another. As to enemies, I don't believe I've heard anyone asking that question around here. If you want to converse with us, please don't find faults with things we never said in the first place, it is rude and a logical error called straw man.

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Azdgari on December 19, 2011, 06:20:06 PM
EES was responding to the OP, which was pretty odd itself.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: eartheconomyspirit on December 19, 2011, 07:43:08 PM
 ;)
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Spinner198 on December 22, 2011, 12:21:00 AM
Why didn't God ever reveal himself?
He did and he will.

Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?
He will, it even says so in the Bible.

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!
Died and either went to heaven or hell, if you go to heaven, you have many many rewards probably. Going to hell is another story.

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???
Well, he did a few cool things like turning water to wine, feeding the five thousand, walking on water, raising Lazarus from the dead, healing the blind, healing leprosy, healing the crippled (all three of which simply by a touch) and oh ya, he rose from the dead 3 days after he was crucified.
Answers are in the quote.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Azdgari on December 22, 2011, 12:28:26 AM
Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

He will, it even says so in the Bible.

You say here that it is written in the Bible that God will take revenge on SOI's enemies.  I am curious about where it says this.  I was unaware that those who wrote the Bible knew who SOI's enemies would be, or even who SOI is, especially since SOI wasn't born until millenia after the books of the Bible were written.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Ivellios on December 22, 2011, 08:58:57 AM
He did and he will.

When? another 2,000 years?

He will, it even says so in the Bible.

If you aren't Moses, Joshua, or David, you're SOL. If you aren't genociding in his name, you're not worth his time.

Died and either went to heaven or hell, if you go to heaven, you have many many rewards probably. Going to hell is another story.

"Heaven" as told in the Bible is a place physically above the clouds and sky dome where YHWH can look down at us and we appear as grasshoppers. So, how high can you be so that humans appear the size of grasshoppers? I've been there, and there is no "Heaven" or God. Neither Heaven or Hell exist.

Well, he did a few cool things like turning water to wine, feeding the five thousand, walking on water, raising Lazarus from the dead, healing the blind, healing leprosy, healing the crippled (all three of which simply by a touch) and oh ya, he rose from the dead 3 days after he was crucified.

Too bad Lazerus or that girl that were raise from the dead had nothing to say about that. Or anyone else. After all, bringing back someone from the dead just happens every single day, for something such a common occurance... that explains why no one said anything about that but the one telling the story. Too bad none of his miracles left anything that could be verified. Heck, for being a carpenter till he was thirty, you would think that he might have build a chair or table or something... yet, there isn't even one single thing. You have King Soloman's Temple, but that house that Jesus built? Craftmanship and perfection rolled into one? Just like the man as advertised in the bible, never existed.

I could go on and on, like a Hebrew god naming his son after the king of the Greek gods - Iesous... but hey, they were written in Greek aimed at a Greek audience. It's even more telling when Jesus is spoken in Spanish - Hey, Zeus! Yup, there's a whole lot more out there if you go looking for it.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Samuelxcs on December 22, 2011, 09:39:56 AM
Why didn't God ever reveal himself? Because he thinks he is the master of hide and seek

Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies? God does not work for you

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!! You only get rewards for doing something good if it is work from god if he wants to bring you into Heaven

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him??? Jesus just loves you (apparently) I don't know why. Maybe he wants to give humanity a 'second chance'.
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: velkyn on December 22, 2011, 12:21:34 PM
Answers are in the quote.

No, references to stories with no evidence are in the quote. 
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: eartheconomyspirit on December 22, 2011, 04:03:01 PM
Q:Why didn't God ever reveal himself?

A:If you take God as analogy for spirituality, then you have answer.

Q:Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

A: Forgiveness is the cornerstone of finding peace when feeling an injustice has been done. It's a gift to yourself as well as an example for the offending person.

Q:What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

A: Through learning that you share the potential to maintain a still mind, and in that stillness you find an unshakeable peace and joy for the living experience. The reward is life itself assuming freedom from ego.

Q:What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

A: In 1945, some authentically ancient documents where found. One of those Documents has been called the Gospel of Thomas. interestingly, it's not acknowledged by the mainstream  Christian religion(s). The Gospel of Thomas contains 114 sayings attributed to a man called Jesus.  in this Gospel you aren't presented with any mysticism. It's more a dialogue on spirituality, and an insightful one at that.  Mysticism leads to a requirement of faith unless you have the good fortune to witness the mystical event. Faith (think suicide bomber) can be easily abused. After reading the Gospel of Thomas I feel confident that the mysticism is not Jesus. in the Gospel of Thomas it's not about eternal life, just living a good life, in my opinion.

59..Jesus said, "Look to the living one as long as you live, otherwise you might die and then try to see the living one, and you will be unable to see."
 
An obvious truth, perhaps. Spirituality is a living experience and truth.   

All you've done is substitute one undefined unprovable term for another. As to enemies, I don't believe I've heard anyone asking that question around here. If you want to converse with us, please don't find faults with things we never said in the first place, it is rude and a logical error called straw man.

I think you're off beam here. I was responding to the original question , which included the "enemies' question. Yo own me an apology for the rude comment, perhaps :-)

The nature of the spirituality proposition, like string theory, is abstract and still remains theoretical. Yet both hold the potential of unification.

My explanations, only offer a theory. the proof will be in an individuals experience of that theory.    Peace :-)

   
Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: Hatter23 on December 22, 2011, 10:50:12 PM


All you've done is substitute one undefined unprovable term for another. As to enemies, I don't believe I've heard anyone asking that question around here. If you want to converse with us, please don't find faults with things we never said in the first place, it is rude and a logical error called straw man.

I think you're off beam here. I was responding to the original question , which included the "enemies' question. Yo own me an apology for the rude comment, perhaps :-)

The nature of the spirituality proposition, like string theory, is abstract and still remains theoretical. Yet both hold the potential of unification.

My explanations, only offer a theory. the proof will be in an individuals experience of that theory.    Peace :-)

 

On the portion of enemies, I do stand corrected. My apologies. I didn't go back far enough, and SOI, well, didn't seem to be quite representative of the regulars here.


But as to the other part, do I still hold that you've taken one ill defined  unprovable term and substituted another. A theory, to have any weight, still had to have some evidence and definitions; "spirituality" has neither.

If you have some, be my guest as to providing them.

Title: Re: I'm Distressed & Need Answers!!
Post by: eartheconomyspirit on December 23, 2011, 12:38:41 AM
 ;)