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Main Discussion Zone => Why Won't God Heal Amputees? => Topic started by: CAFMAN6986 on January 10, 2010, 04:51:34 PM

Title: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: CAFMAN6986 on January 10, 2010, 04:51:34 PM
I am posting this in responce to the individual who claims "God is Imaginary".

Proof # 1-Try Praying



"What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

      Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen. "


God would look into your heart and see if you're indeed seriously or you're simply doing it out of mockery. If out of mockery he'll simply ignore you. For God is a vengeful God and will not help those he seek him in heart and soul.

So, you just proved right there God exists for he's not listening to your mockery. And, if you're an invidual who lost someone to cancer, I'm sorry that this caused you to hate God and say he doesn't exists because you prayed and nothing happened. If you truly had faith and no doubts, I'm sure it would've happened. You know, you could have just gone to the Lady of Lourdes and dip the indvidual in it and they would have been cured. People have been cured from this with extreme faith involved.

Proof #2-Statistically analyze prayer

"The fact is, God never answers any prayers. The entire idea that "God answers" prayers" is an illusion created by human imagination.

How do we know that "answered prayers" are illusions? We simply perform scientific experiments. We ask a group of believers to pray for something and then we watch what happens. What we find, whenever we test the efficacy of prayer scientifically, is that prayer has zero effect:

The only thing that creates illusions is objects manifested into trickery(Majicians do this quite well.)

I don't beleive in praying that, when it's answered, it's an illusion. That's just ignorance and blaspheming the holy spirit which I refuse to do!

Proof #3 - Look at historical gods

I don't need to. There's only One God and that's the Almighty. Bible states it if you're going according to the bible.



Proof #4 - Think about science

Sciene was invented by man just as God invented science. No need to discuss this further.

Proof #5 - Read the Bible

I'm in the process of reading(still in old testament) and I got to say, although it might sound wrong to stone people, you need to understand God needed to embed fear so that we wouldn't sin. In order to do that, people needed to get stoned so that people would know he was serious so that they don't do it. Besides, God already answered the prayer of no more stoning by sending Jesus in to wash away our sins.

Proof #6 - Ponder God's Plan

I don't like to ponder God's plan, for that is questionig. When I question, bad shit happens to me and don't like that, Thank you very much., Next proof....

Just because the Mormons and Muslims belive in "fairty tales" doesn't mean the christians and Jewish are wrong. Your criticizing two races and putting faults on others like if it's ours. Some people do create stories, that's why I only belive Christ and revelation, anything beyond revelation(Not in the bible) is not cause for recognition unless I see a miracle and acknowldge the work of the holy spirit.

Proof #8 - Think about Near Death Experiences

You're calling my parents a liar?


Remember God's plan?

My father was mugged in 2000 and choked to death. He told me he saw a brightlight and the tunnel and said as he tried to head towards he was pushed back and awoken.

Now, if my father had died, I would be homeless. For right now I am in final troubles and if it weren't for God's plan, I'd be homeless.

Also, my mother passed for 10 minutes and came back. She told me she saw God but refused to tell me deatils as she is not allowed to reveal the secrets of the Lord. She did say he was the most beautiful looking person in the world and was very humble, warm and welcoming.

If you tell me I'm lying you can continue to be ignorant. For you just want people to think you're right and that's Satan talking! Did you ever stop to think you could be one of the apostles of Satan and that's why you say this. Hell, you could be the Anti-christ trying to make people beleive you to take us down but you're too ignorant to realize it.

Proof #9 - Understand ambiguity

If someonehad an uncurable cancer and was miracously cured, and science had no say on how it was possible, it'sd cause it's God...Next proof.

Proof #10 - Watch the offering plate

In the bible, God states to make offerings when you go to church. The church needs money to stay open and feed the poor. You say how can God not answer prayters and do it himself is cause he uses people to do it for him. For if he came down we'd all discinegrate. Our mortal bodies can't stand his presence that's why we have a soul. We got one the minute Adam and Eve ate the apple.


Proof #11 - Notice that there is no scientific evidence

Um, there is  you've just haven't found it yet. Remember, seek me and you shall find? Obviously, you don't really want to seek him.

Proof #12 - See the magic

Magic is a term created by people. I'll pass that one.

Proof #13 - Take a look at slavery

You didn't live in those times to justify your irrational statement.

Proof #14 - Examine Jesus' miracles

Ever hear of the Shroud of Turin?

That was left by jesus.

Proof #15 - Examine Jesus' resurrection

I don't need to.

Jesus is not to appear again until the time of Armageddon. It says so in revelation. Why would you want him to come? I don't want to live through that hellish time if I'm left to stay behind and be tested on my faith.

Proof #16 - Contemplate the contradictions

God can tell someone to kill someone for the greater kill. If a murderer killed your daughter and could kill again, would you not kill hi to put him to justice so that he may burn in hell for eternity as the Lord promises for the wicked?

Proof #17 - Think about Leprechauns

I don't unless I watch the movie with Warwick Davis.

There is proof God exists you just don't seek. Stop repeating yourself you're starting to sound like someone who has no other defense other than to repeat.

Proof #18 - Imagine heaven

I do everyday.

Left Behind is a movie and didn't come from God directly.

And being transported to heaven is your soul. Not, body.

Proof #19 - Notice that you ignore Jesus

I don't.

Jesus means to be good to others. If they need help help them. He doesn't expect you to be perfect.

For inatnce, if I had 30 millions dollars in my back account. I'd give away 20 and only keeep ten. That's what Jesus means. Don't be greedy.

Proof #20 - Notice your church
I don't. I pay attention to my faith. For some abuse the power of The Lord.

Proof #21 - Understand Jesus' Core Message

Would you give the light of day to someone who doesn't love you.....no, no, and NO!!!!

You have to worship for that's how we are able to show God we love him.

Proof #22 - Count all the people God wants to murder

He's getting rid of the evil. Jeesh, onece again you repeat. You're getting boring.

Proof #23 - Listen to the Doxology

Songs were created by man. It's hyms to make you feel safe.

One obvious question to ask after reading the church's statement is this: If all blessings "flow from God, then why are his blessings so amazingly unbalanced? Why are tens of thousands of children dying of starvation every day on this planet [ref], while Colonial Baptist Church is blessed with such wealth?"

Maybe God wants you to bitch about so you can do something because obviously the pople God wanted to do that turned their backs.

Proof #24 - Ask why religion causes so many problems

Simply because everyone wants to be right. Grant it, I want Jesus to come so I can stick it to the Jews but I know it's wrong so I respect peopels faith and we they try to say and impose shit on me of theirs the holy spirit within me gets hurt and I defend.

Proof #25 - Understand evolution and abiogenesis

Explain me this. Tell me why all humans who are vegitatrians don't turn back into apes after generations of them? Because it's BS. You want evolution....

What created the sun? It wasn't just there? and if an explosion happen, where the fuck did all the organisms come free. Doesn't scince say extreme heat in the sun kill ALL ORGANIMS CAUSE NOTHING CAN SURVIVE IT?!!!!!!

Proof #26 - Notice that the Bible's author is not "all-knowing"

Because you have to go look in the archives of the Vatican for me detail.

Proof #27 - Think about life after death

I do and it's scary. I'm afriad of burning in hell for all eternity.

About soul, can you explain to me why when some does does their body become eaier to pick because they've actually lost weight?

Proof #28 - Notice how many gods you reject

There's only one. As you said before, he has different names but he's one in the same.

Proof #29 - Think about Communion

It's just a symblosim not to be taken literal. Jesus means in heart and soul.

Proof #30 - Examine God's sexism

Hmm, if because of a woman we sinned, would you not get ANGRY with her?

To be continued....



Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Emily on January 10, 2010, 05:07:46 PM
Quote
Explain me this. Tell me why all humans who are vegitatrians don't turn back into apes after generations of them? Because it's BS. You want evolution....

I will be completely honest, this statement is by far the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Do you even have the most basic understanding of biology.

Quote
What created the sun? It wasn't just there? and if an explosion happen, where the fuck did all the organisms come free. Doesn't scince say extreme heat in the sun kill ALL ORGANIMS CAUSE NOTHING CAN SURVIVE IT?!!!!!!

Another gem.

Quote
Hmm, if because of a woman we sinned, would you not get ANGRY with her?

hmmm

EDIT:

Quote
God can tell someone to kill someone for the greater kill. If a murderer killed your daughter and could kill again, would you not kill hi to put him to justice so that he may burn in hell for eternity as the Lord promises for the wicked?

Another gem! Holy shit. I hope this is a poe. Killing for the sake of revenge is not justice.

Quote
Would you give the light of day to someone who doesn't love you.....no, no, and NO!!!!

Another gem! So in other words if someone is in need and they don't love you you wont help them out?

Kind of takes the meaning away of what you said here;

Quote
Jesus means to be good to others. If they need help help them. He doesn't expect you to be perfect.

For inatnce, if I had 30 millions dollars in my back account. I'd give away 20 and only keeep ten. That's what Jesus means. Don't be greedy.

Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Nick on January 10, 2010, 05:09:16 PM
Wow...what can you say after all that?  I'm on my knees out of fear. ;)
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Dkit on January 10, 2010, 05:36:25 PM
God would look into your heart and see if you're indeed seriously or you're simply doing it out of mockery. If out of mockery he'll simply ignore you. For God is a vengeful God and will not help those he seek him in heart and soul.

So, you just proved right there God exists for he's not listening to your mockery.
God ignored me, therefore, he exists.  Riiiggghhhhtt.  I suppose if I pray to Allah and he ignores me, that's proof he exists also?  Many of us on this board were Christians for many years.  Some even preachers and the like.  Our atheism/agnosticism comes from experience in the Christian mindset, reading, research, and a quick look at reality.  After years of failed prayers and a skeptical look at the bible, we've come to the logical conclusion that YHWH/Jesus do not exist.  And, by extension and until shown otherwise, there are likely NO gods.

And, if you're an invidual who lost someone to cancer, I'm sorry that this caused you to hate God and say he doesn't exists because you prayed and nothing happened. If you truly had faith and no doubts, I'm sure it would've happened. You know, you could have just gone to the Lady of Lourdes and dip the indvidual in it and they would have been cured. People have been cured from this with extreme faith involved.
No loss or disappointment resulting in my non-belief.  Sorry.  As for Lourdes:  There have been some 200 million people over 150 years and only 60 or so recognized miracles.[1] Not a good track record for your god.  

The only thing that creates illusions is objects manifested into trickery(Majicians do this quite well.)
I don't beleive in praying that, when it's answered, it's an illusion. That's just ignorance and blaspheming the holy spirit which I refuse to do!
Ever hear of the placebo effect?  There's no Holy Spook to blasphemy against.  So, don't worry about it.

Proof #3 - Look at historical gods
I don't need to. There's only One God and that's the Almighty. Bible states it if you're going according to the bible.
Try doing a little religious history research.  Your god is no different than any other god worshiped by man.  Re bold:  That is circular reasoning and therefore completely useless to anyone who doesn't already believe in your mythology.  The bible is true because the bible says it is true.  No critical thought needed for such nonsense.  

Edit:  What if I were to say the Koran is true because the Koran says it is true?  How is that any different or less valid than your statement?

Proof #4 - Think about science
Sciene was invented by man just as God invented science. No need to discuss this further.
Science is a tool used to explain how our world works.  Nothing wrong with that, right?  Or maybe you'd like to go live in a tent in the middle of nowhere without a toilet, running water, electricity, packaged foods, warm clothes and complete silence.  Because the mere fact that you are using a computer to type a response is hypocritical considering that science provided you the technological means to pass on your religious nonsense.  Do you use a cellphone, go to the doctor, take medicine, eat yogurt, drive a car, fly on a plane, use air conditioning, read a book, have photos taken, watch television, use a telescope?  All provided to you by science.  What advancement has religion provided in the last 500 years to better the human condition?
 1. http://www.skepdic.com/lourdes.html
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Dkit on January 10, 2010, 06:08:28 PM
I'm in the process of reading(still in old testament) and I got to say, although it might sound wrong to stone people, you need to understand God needed to embed fear so that we wouldn't sin. In order to do that, people needed to get stoned so that people would know he was serious so that they don't do it. Besides, God already answered the prayer of no more stoning by sending Jesus in to wash away our sins.
Fear?  What about love and nurturing?  An infinite omnimax got can't come up with a better rationale then to instill fear on the people he desires obedience from?  I'm willing to bet he would have got a better response if he took a different route.  Being that I find stoning as a method of persuasion disgusting, I am a more moral being than your god, and you, apparently.  Yes, Jesus, the bloody human sacrifice and a substitute punishment.  I don't need someone else to take the wrap for me when I've done something wrong.  No, thanks.  Why is it wrong for other religious cultures to practice human sacrifice?

Just because the Mormons and Muslims belive in "fairty tales" doesn't mean the christians and Jewish are wrong. Your criticizing two races and putting faults on others like if it's ours. Some people do create stories, that's why I only belive Christ and revelation, anything beyond revelation(Not in the bible) is not cause for recognition unless I see a miracle and acknowldge the work of the holy spirit.
Couple things:  What evidence is there that the Jewish and Christians stories are anything other than myth and legend?  There is only ONE race:  the human one.  Mormons, Muslims, Christians and Jews are religious adherents.  Revelatory religions are only useful to those who receive the revelation.[1] How do I know those people weren't deluded, insane, mistaken or lying?  There's zero evidence that can support the vast number of magical/supernatural occurrences in the bible.  If you were to see a miracle, how would you know it was from your god and not say, allah or Zeus or Odin or Ra?  They all have exactly the same amount of evidence.  None.

Proof #8 - Think about Near Death Experiences

If you tell me I'm lying you can continue to be ignorant. For you just want people to think you're right and that's Satan talking! Did you ever stop to think you could be one of the apostles of Satan and that's why you say this. Hell, you could be the Anti-christ trying to make people beleive you to take us down but you're too ignorant to realize it.

Are you then going to dismiss the NDE by other believers?  Say Hindus who have a nde about their gods and afterlife?  Or Muslims?  Those experiences can also be recreated by using drugs.

Proof #9 - Understand ambiguity
If someonehad an uncurable cancer and was miracously cured, and science had no say on how it was possible, it'sd cause it's God...Next proof.
Which god?

Proof #10 - Watch the offering plate
In the bible, God states to make offerings when you go to church. The church needs money to stay open and feed the poor. You say how can God not answer prayters and do it himself is cause he uses people to do it for him. For if he came down we'd all discinegrate. Our mortal bodies can't stand his presence that's why we have a soul. We got one the minute Adam and Eve ate the apple.
God needs money to help feed the poor because he can't do it himself.  You've just made your god impotent.  Good job.  Adam and Eve were not real people.  

Proof #11 - Notice that there is no scientific evidence
Um, there is  you've just haven't found it yet. Remember, seek me and you shall find? Obviously, you don't really want to seek him.
If we haven't found the evidence yet, then there no evidence to suggest it's on par with reality, and, therefore, no reason to believe it exists.

Proof #12 - See the magic
Magic is a term created by people. I'll pass that one.
Yes, just like god.

Proof #13 - Take a look at slavery
You didn't live in those times to justify your irrational statement.
Idiotic statement.  Would you like to have been slave in any time?  I'm guessing no.

Proof #14 - Examine Jesus' miracles

Ever hear of the Shroud of Turin?
Debunked and reproduced. (http://www.skepdic.com/shroud.html)  
 1. Paraphrasing Thomas Paine
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Aaron123 on January 10, 2010, 06:12:15 PM
Quote
For God is a vengeful God

Quote
God needed to embed fear

What a lovely picture...  &)


Quote
There's only One God and that's the Almighty. Bible states it if you're going according to the bible.
 

Circular reasoning is circular.


Quote
If someonehad an uncurable cancer and was miracously cured, and science had no say on how it was possible, it'sd cause it's God...Next proof.

God of the gaps.


Quote
Proof #22 - Count all the people God wants to murder

He's getting rid of the evil. Jeesh, onece again you repeat. You're getting boring.

Stop defending genocide!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_itrJx2FJI[/youtube]


Quote
Maybe God wants you to bitch about so you can do something because obviously the pople God wanted to do that turned their backs.

LoL, Wuh?!


Quote
Proof #30 - Examine God's sexism

Hmm, if because of a woman we sinned, would you not get ANGRY with her?

Ah, so Yahweh IS a sexist pig.  Gotcha.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: JeffPT on January 10, 2010, 06:35:29 PM
This is the scariest part of the entire post. 

To be continued....

Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Dkit on January 10, 2010, 06:38:24 PM
Jesus is not to appear again until the time of Armageddon. It says so in revelation.
Well, if it says so in the bible. . .it must be true.

God can tell someone to kill someone for the greater kill. If a murderer killed your daughter and could kill again, would you not kill hi to put him to justice so that he may burn in hell for eternity as the Lord promises for the wicked?
Please show how babies being dashed against rocks, all non-virgin girls killed, someone "spilling his seed", someone touching the ark, children teasing a bald man, or people worshiping a different god is akin to a murderer being given the death penalty?  Go on, defend your murderous god.

There is proof God exists you just don't seek. Stop repeating yourself you're starting to sound like someone who has no other defense other than to repeat.
And you keep telling us to seek "proof".  If there were "proof" of your god, why are there so many other religions and gods worshiped?  Many of us sought evidence while we were still Christians.  It's just not there.  Wake up and smell reality.

Would you give the light of day to someone who doesn't love you.....no, no, and NO!!!!
Why would an omnimax god care one whit about the bipedal primates on a small blue dot orbiting a rather ordinary star at the edge of some random galaxy?  We aren't that important.


Proof #22 - Count all the people God wants to murder

He's getting rid of the evil. Jeesh, onece again you repeat. You're getting boring.
What about free will?  Why is there still evil in the world if god wants to get rid of it.  Anything an omnimax god wants will by definition be done.  


Simply because everyone wants to be right. Grant it, I want Jesus to come so I can stick it to the Jews but I know it's wrong so I respect peopels faith and we they try to say and impose s**t on me of theirs the holy spirit within me gets hurt and I defend.
Arrogant much?

Explain me this. Tell me why all humans who are vegitatrians don't turn back into apes after generations of them? Because it's BS. You want evolution....
Wow, just wow.  I can't respond.  

What created the sun? It wasn't just there? and if an explosion happen, where the f**k did all the organisms come free. Doesn't scince say extreme heat in the sun kill ALL ORGANIMS CAUSE NOTHING CAN SURVIVE IT?!!!!!!
READ A BOOK!  Crikey, watch the science channel.  

Here:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-LXUHJmzzc[/youtube]

Proof #27 - Think about life after death

I do and it's scary. I'm afriad of burning in hell for all eternity.
Shed your delusion and all will be better.

About soul, can you explain to me why when some does does their body become eaier to pick because they've actually lost weight?
Um, what?  Evidence that this is factual, please.

Proof #28 - Notice how many gods you reject
There's only one. As you said before, he has different names but he's one in the same.
Wrong.  There are literally thousands of gods.  You may claim they are all YOUR god, but saying it doesn't make it so and is very arrogant.  If they are all the same, why are they all so different?  Why do they represent the culture in which they are worshiped?  Why is god not universal to all cultures at all times?  Because, say it with me. . .he is imaginary.

Proof #29 - Think about Communion
It's just a symblosim not to be taken literal. Jesus means in heart and soul.
It's an earlier borrowed pagan ritual.  

Proof #30 - Examine God's sexism
Hmm, if because of a woman we sinned, would you not get ANGRY with her?
OMG.  Seriously?  Pull yourself out of the bronze age and join the rest of us.

Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Emily on January 10, 2010, 06:47:03 PM
About soul, can you explain to me why when some does does their body become eaier to pick because they've actually lost weight?
Um, what?  Evidence that this is factual, please.


Good replies, dkit.

About this, he's referring to this article, I'm sure
http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp


Really the study he's referring to is inconclusive.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Dkit on January 10, 2010, 06:49:17 PM
lol.  Thanks, Emily.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: GetMeThere on January 10, 2010, 06:49:36 PM
Proof # 1-Try Praying
"What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way...God would look into your heart and see if you're indeed seriously or you're simply doing it out of mockery. If out of mockery he'll simply ignore you. For God is a vengeful God and will not help those he seek him in heart and soul.

So, you just proved right there God exists for he's not listening to your mockery.

There is proof here, alright: it's proof that no one should bother reading anything else you've written. Of course, you could be "joking" or trying to provoke. But I have to take you at face value from your first post...and you're talking nonsense (Poe?).

And, if you're an invidual who lost someone to cancer, I'm sorry that this caused you to hate God and say he doesn't exists because you prayed and nothing happened. If you truly had faith and no doubts, I'm sure it would've happened.

And this is the reason for this site: The empty assurances of believers in religions (or writers of bibles) that they are SURE certain things will happen from belief in god. You are NOT sure, mostly because the promised occurrences DO NOT happen--as you very well know yourself.

I'm not going to continue on, because this post is SO outrageous that I suspect a Poe...
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Dkit on January 10, 2010, 06:52:58 PM
I'm sure I've wasted my time, but I was feeling frisky this morning. 
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Irish on January 10, 2010, 07:43:42 PM
That right there is the public school system for ya. Though there are many bright students in public schools the OP is representative of the majority.

Proper education is the death of religion.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Odin on January 10, 2010, 08:48:41 PM

Proof #6 - Ponder God's Plan
...
Just because the Mormons and Muslims belive in "fairty tales" doesn't mean the christians and Jewish are wrong. Your criticizing two races and putting faults on others like if it's ours. Some people do create stories, that's why I only belive Christ and revelation, anything beyond revelation(Not in the bible) is not cause for recognition unless I see a miracle and acknowldge the work of the holy spirit.

Odin, King of the Gods, is rolling on the floor of Asgaard and laughing his ass off.

You have to be kidding, right?  Nobody can be this stupid.  This has to be a joke.

Odin, King of the Gods

PS - Don't even get me started on the Freudian Slip of "fairty tales."
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Azdgari on January 10, 2010, 08:57:09 PM
Explain me this. Tell me why all humans who are vegitatrians don't turn back into apes after generations of them? Because it's BS. You want evolution....

Sigged.  And I don't normally sig-hunt.  CAFMAN6986, at what grade of elementary school did you decide to drop out?  This has nothing whatsoever to do with evolution.  The reason vegetarian humans (like me) don't turn into "apes" after generations is that selection pressures on each generation don't favor ape-like attributes.  If they did, then we eventually would turn into ape-like creatures.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: screwtape on January 10, 2010, 09:51:22 PM
So, you just proved right there God exists for he's not listening to your mockery.

f-ing classic!  No response to a prayer is proof of god's existence!  Get that?  A lack of evidence is evidence.


Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Inactive_1 on January 10, 2010, 10:03:06 PM

To be continued....


It won't continue for long if you don't engage the members questions.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: CAFMAN6986 on January 10, 2010, 11:16:38 PM
I respect all of your answers. But, I want you to answer me this....for if you answer it with proof, you are "right".


   I was going through a breakdown. Satan spoke to me and told me to sell my soul and I could have all that I desired. I kept resisting in my head...No! No! No!!!

   He refused to leave me alone. I kept hearing voices in my head saying yes. I was horrorfied.

   That night, after reading a chapter from the bible, I cried and pleaded...

"Lord, God. The God of Israel. God of all creations and Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, please hear my prayers."

I explained the situation then went to bed. When I slept, I saw a battle going on. Fire everywhere, like described in the revelation.

   I then saw someone, a little taller then me, fighting off a monstrous demon. After killing it, he turned and looked at me and I asked..who are you? And he said..."I'm Jesus Christ, the Son of God. It's Okay. You're saved. Everything will be all right."

After he said this I step forward to see(For in mymind I questioned, wait, I want to know if he's black or white) and before I could get a close look(I saw him from a few distance but the light was kinda bright.) I awoken. And, I felt safe. I wasn't feeling pain, I wasn't angry anymore. My family fought with me and I felt holy as a result of that dream.

Now, I am not a drug taker. I detest them, they make you stupid and cause you to stink like shit. How do you explain what happened?


Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Emily on January 10, 2010, 11:18:42 PM
Quote
How do you explain what happened?

You've got some serious fucking problems. That's how I explain it.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Dragnet on January 10, 2010, 11:21:23 PM
I am in no position to even try and explain what happened.

However, based on you telling and description I would have to remain skeptical.

Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: ReasonIsOutToLunch on January 10, 2010, 11:42:11 PM
Quote
How do you explain what happened?

You've got some serious fucking problems. That's how I explain it.

I would explain it this way: brief psychotic disorder. Unless, you are continuing to have hallucinations.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Emily on January 10, 2010, 11:49:32 PM
^^ Perhaps I shouldn't have been so quick to give a diagnosis...
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Astreja on January 10, 2010, 11:52:56 PM
"What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:  (snip prayer)

If you get an "answer," how do you distinguish the voice of a real god from the voice of your own imagination?  I don't think we have the neurological technology to do that yet.

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Proof #3 - Look at historical gods... I don't need to. There's only One God and that's the Almighty. Bible states it if you're going according to the bible.

Logical fallacy:  Petitio principii.  I, myself, prefer the Eddas to the Bible.  Thank you for proving the existence of Oðinn, Freyja, Thor, Loki, Heimdall, Frigga, Baldur...

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Sciene was invented by man just as God invented science. No need to discuss this further.

Biblegod couldn't possibly have invented science.  It couldn't even come up with a decent approximation of pi.

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I'm in the process of reading(still in old testament) and I got to say, although it might sound wrong to stone people, you need to understand God needed to embed fear so that we wouldn't sin. In order to do that, people needed to get stoned so that people would know he was serious so that they don't do it.

That is indescribably sick and morally indefensible.

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Just because the Mormons and Muslims belive in "fairty tales" doesn't mean the christians and Jewish are wrong.

Then I expect a Talking Snake™ in my mailbox first thing tomorrow morning, or an admission that Christians do, indeed, believe in fairy tales.

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My father was mugged in 2000 and choked to death. He told me he saw a brightlight and the tunnel and said as he tried to head towards he was pushed back and awoken.

He honestly may have thought he was dead, but I don't think that his brain actually died at any time.

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Also, my mother passed for 10 minutes and came back. She told me she saw God but refused to tell me deatils as she is not allowed to reveal the secrets of the Lord. She did say he was the most beautiful looking person in the world and was very humble, warm and welcoming.

I think that she was alive, but hallucinating, just as for your father.

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Did you ever stop to think you could be one of the apostles of Satan and that's why you say this. Hell, you could be the Anti-christ trying to make people beleive you to take us down but you're too ignorant to realize it.

It's possible, I suppose, but I think it is vastly more likely that you are suffering from heavy religious indoctrination and also some severe mental health problems as evidenced by your second  post.

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If someonehad an uncurable cancer and was miracously cured, and science had no say on how it was possible, it's cause it's God...Next proof.

Ever heard of cancers going into remission?  

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In the bible, God states to make offerings when you go to church. The church needs money to stay open and feed the poor.

I prefer to give to my local food bank.  More food, less overhead, and no preaching.

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You say how can God not answer prayters and do it himself is cause he uses people to do it for him. For if he came down we'd all discinegrate.

Completely ridiculous.  If this were so, Jesus couldn't even have preached to his disciples without disintegrating them.

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Proof #13 - Take a look at slavery... You didn't live in those times to justify your irrational statement.

Slavery is wrong.  Period.

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Ever hear of the Shroud of Turin?  That was left by jesus.

Sorry, but no.  It's a medieval forgery, and has been thoroughly debunked.

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Proof #15 - Examine Jesus' resurrection... I don't need to.

Yes, you most certainly *do* need to examine this.  There is no empirical evidence for anyone, anywhere coming back from the dead after several days.  It is almost certainly a myth, stolen from earlier myths of resurrected god-men.

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Jesus is not to appear again until the time of Armageddon. It says so in revelation.

The Bible is not acceptable evidence here.

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God can tell someone to kill someone for the greater kill. If a murderer killed your daughter and could kill again, would you not kill hi to put him to justice so that he may burn in hell for eternity as the Lord promises for the wicked?

No.  I am opposed to the death penalty.  I would want the murderer imprisoned for the rest of his or her life, and I absolutely would *not* want the murderer tortured for eternity.  To inflict such pain upon *any* sentient being is to commit an even greater crime.

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Proof #22 - Count all the people God wants to murder... He's getting rid of the evil.

Já, riiight.  Were the Amalekite babies were so evil your pretend god couldn't think of anything else to do with them, other than have them killed?

Are you listening to the vicious rationalizations you're spouting here?  You are morally bankrupt, and not because some mythical woman allegedly ate an apple a long time ago.  You did this all on your own.

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Grant it, I want Jesus to come so I can stick it to the Jews but I know it's wrong...

Obviously your religion has not made you a better person.

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I'm afriad of burning in hell for all eternity.

The person who taught you that is an extremely abusive person.

I am so certain that hell does not exist, and so determined that I could *not* worship a god that would create such a place, that I have made a conscious decision to go to hell rather than heaven if those places actually exist.  I simply could not be happy in a heaven if anyone else was suffering in hell.

Face the fear directly, and in time it will go away.

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Hmm, if because of a woman we sinned, would you not get ANGRY with her?

What a pathetic responsibility dodge... Blaming the woes of the world on a mythical woman who didn't even know that eating the Forbidden Fruit was wrong...

...Because, before eating the fruit, she did not have knowledge of good and evil.

Please seek competent professional help from a certified psychiatrist before your religious delusions destroy the rest of your life.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: naemhni on January 11, 2010, 06:37:32 AM
How do you explain what happened?

Uhmmm... you had a dream.  What is there to explain?
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Agga on January 11, 2010, 06:41:45 AM
bm
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: RaymondKHessel on January 11, 2010, 10:14:56 AM
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How do you explain what happened?

You've got some serious fucking problems. That's how I explain it.

My diagnosis as well. You need psychotherapy, not religion. And you need it badly.

Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Azdgari on January 11, 2010, 10:20:21 AM
So, you just proved right there God exists for he's not listening to your mockery.
f-ing classic!  No response to a prayer is proof of god's existence!  Get that?  A lack of evidence is evidence.

The fact that you can't see the space-ship in my back-yard is proof that I have a space-ship with a cloaking device.  Proof, I say.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Levan on January 11, 2010, 10:25:30 AM
CAFMAN, how do you explain the visions that Hindus have?

How do you explain the visions that Muslims have?
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Zankuu on January 11, 2010, 10:43:12 AM
After he said this I step forward to see(For in mymind I questioned, wait, I want to know if he's black or white) and before I could get a close look(I saw him from a few distance but the light was kinda bright.) I awoken. And, I felt safe. I wasn't feeling pain, I wasn't angry anymore. My family fought with me and I felt holy as a result of that dream.

You had a dream. Nothing supernatural about that. And by the way, story book Jesus wasn't Caucasian or African.

Now, I am not a drug taker. I detest them, they make you stupid and cause you to stink like shit. How do you explain what happened?

I really question whether or not you've ever had a drug addiction. Drugs make you stupid and stink? Is that what mom and dad told you?
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Mr. Philpotz on January 11, 2010, 02:50:06 PM
[modbreak]

Why are you quoting these large blocks of text?

[/modbreak]
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Mr. Philpotz on January 11, 2010, 03:20:56 PM
[modbreak]

Why are you quoting these large blocks of text?

[/modbreak]
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Seppuku on January 11, 2010, 03:28:03 PM
Quote from: CAFMAN6986
God would look into your heart and see if you're indeed seriously or you're simply doing it out of mockery. If out of mockery he'll simply ignore you. For God is a vengeful God and will not help those he seek him in heart and soul.

Why would I do it out of mockery? Cancer is a serious thing and frankly, I do wanted every case of cancer to disappear, it's horrible disease that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy. If I were to pray, this is one I'd be totally serious about, if you really believe he'll answer that prayer as promised in the bible, then you're probably the one to do it...I don't know, does God answer the prayers of non-believers? If he does, I will try it. This is a prayer that would not only do the world a lot of could, but would have me and many other atheists seriously reconsidering their position on the existence of a God.

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And, if you're an invidual who lost someone to cancer, I'm sorry that this caused you to hate God and say he doesn't exists because you prayed and nothing happened.

We don't hate God. It's a common misconception about atheists, but ask the question, "how do you hate what you do not believe?" Can we hate Santa Claus for giving us the wrong presents at Christmas if we've acknowledged to ourselves that he doesn't actually exist?

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You know, you could have just gone to the Lady of Lourdes and dip the indvidual in it and they would have been cured. People have been cured from this with extreme faith involved.

I know of Lourdes, we approached in when we studied miracles at school, there were plenty of sources of criticism for how such miracles work. Crocoduck performed his own miracle on his video blog - you could consider it an example of one of the criticisms. If every case of cancer is cured tonight after praying for it, the ambiguity is removed.

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"The fact is, God never answers any prayers. The entire idea that "God answers" prayers" is an illusion created by human imagination.

How do we know that "answered prayers" are illusions? We simply perform scientific experiments. We ask a group of believers to pray for something and then we watch what happens. What we find, whenever we test the efficacy of prayer scientifically, is that prayer has zero effect:

The only thing that creates illusions is objects manifested into trickery(Majicians do this quite well.)

I don't beleive in praying that, when it's answered, it's an illusion. That's just ignorance and blaspheming the holy spirit which I refuse to do!

I believe there was an experiment, perhaps another forum member knows more?

Though there's one flaw in your logic. Fear of blaspheming the holy spirit stops you from accepting any other possibilities. This sort of thing could be evidence to suggest that maybe the Holy spirit isn't real. Having the presupposition that God without a doubt exist, prevents you from thinking critically about the existence of God. So such a presupposition will STOP you from being able to accept any evidence that might blaspheme or support the idea that he isn't real. Without the ability to critically think about it, you are one sided and therefore not fit for debate.

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I don't need to. There's only One God and that's the Almighty. Bible states it if you're going according to the bible.

Assertions...

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Sciene was invented by man just as God invented science. No need to discuss this further.

How about. Science was invented by man, because it is a means of seeking knowledge. Science is observation of the universe scrutinized in order to understand it. Stated God invented science is unscientific and remains a baseless assertion. Therefore, there's no weight in the argument. Without weight in your argument, of course you can't discuss it further.

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I'm in the process of reading(still in old testament) and I got to say, although it might sound wrong to stone people, you need to understand God needed to embed fear so that we wouldn't sin. In order to do that, people needed to get stoned so that people would know he was serious so that they don't do it. Besides, God already answered the prayer of no more stoning by sending Jesus in to wash away our sins.

I'll get back to that one, because it requires a lot of time to write up the response. I can't be sure you're going to stay and offer debate, so I also don't want to waste time writing it to find it's useless. Its happened to me many times before.


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I don't like to ponder God's plan, for that is questionig. When I question, bad s**t happens to me and don't like that, Thank you very much., Next proof....

Can't question God? Therefore, how can you accept any evidence outside of the bible? You can't know if you're wrong if you can't question the things you believe in. Therefore, again, you're not qualified to debate.

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Just because the Mormons and Muslims belive in "fairty tales" doesn't mean the christians and Jewish are wrong. Your criticizing two races and putting faults on others like if it's ours. Some people do create stories, that's why I only belive Christ and revelation, anything beyond revelation(Not in the bible) is not cause for recognition unless I see a miracle and acknowldge the work of the holy spirit.

There's little difference. You use the same logic and same excuses to defend your belief and have the same baseless assertions to say that your religion is true. What you fail to do is prove it...just like they do. A lot of Christians believes Jesus talks to them and that's proof enough, likewise a lot of Muslims think Allah speaks to them and that's proof enough for them and well, Mormonism was based on that Joseph Smith was being spoken to by an angel of the Lord. There's nothing that actually differentiates you. You'll say, "the others are fairy tales" and they'll say, "oh this CAFMAN guy is totally deluded, we have the right answer." And people will really believe that they're right, just as you believe you're right. That doesn't mean that you are.

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You're calling my parents a liar?

Well, near death experiences have their own criticisms and people have their answers. Saying 'calling my parents a liar' is a poor tactic, because you're trying to elicit an emotional response so that we avoid coming off as cruel or nasty about your parents. Lie requires that you consciously misinform somebody - it is possible to be mistaken or to misread things. People can have visions in their near-death experiences. There are several explanations out there, they don't question your parents' honesty and nor would I, so I am somewhat insulted by the question. I find death to be a very sad thing and would therefore not seek to offer them disrespect, particularly as your father needn't have died. The tunnel thing has its own explanations - I'm sure a Google search would bring them up. Visions too.

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Now, if my father had died, I would be homeless. For right now I am in final troubles and if it weren't for God's plan, I'd be homeless

Was it really God? You're offering assertions again.

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If you tell me I'm lying you can continue to be ignorant

I wouldn't call you a liar, for the same reasons I wouldn't call your parents a liar. Ignorant? You've put yourself in a position whereby it's impossible for you to listen or consider to any other point of view. Anything we told you wouldn't rub off on you unless you're willing to open yourself up - but it seems you fear that bad things will happen if you do. This to me is saddening and I mean no insult by it, it's just because the suffering you've had in your life brings you to fear 'God'. I looked at suffering in the world and it lead me to question God - the bad things that's happened to Mum has lead her to be anything - loss of parents and poor finance, it allowed her to question God and I questioned God by my own rights. Where am I now? Making the best out of my life - sure shit can happen, but I've not had any major shit happen in my life, but without God, I have a good life. So it is quite possible that the bad shit in your life isn't God punishing you. What happened to your Dad may in no way have been effected by God or your belief in God, muggers exist because they've allowed their lives to head into that kind of direction and have actively made the decision to attack people in order to steal money, without caring about who they hurt. The blame is on them for their poor actions. They are responsible.

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For you just want people to think you're right and that's Satan talking!

Assertions, naturally I do think I'm right (it's illogical not to) and yes, I would be more comfortable in a world of atheists, where we don't have conflict of religion and religious violence, however, it is that end I want - where people are respectful and not violent. If religion stays, yet remains reasonable, then I am happy. Don't assume because we challenge the arguments of religion that we're intolerant of it, though there are atheists here who would like the world to be rid of religion because they'd see it as a better place. But that's an argument for another thread. Personally I think, and I've had Christians agree, that Christians ought to be on their feet about their beliefs and to question God, so that they don't become ignorant in their beliefs. A challenged argument has more worth than an unchallenged one. Currently, we find very few Christians that allow challenges to their arguments and thus are unjustified and when some do, they only do what they can to try and support their own argument, rather than actually listening to the argument put against them, I consider it rare for a Christian to be open minded and listen to the arguments placed against them. Why am I posting then? Because I am an optimist.

As for Satan? That's a big point, you've given nothing to back it up. Given I lead quite a moral life-style, probably more moral than a lot of Christians and I appreciate life and try often or not to be selfless, I'd argue that there's nothing satanic about me. I disbelieve in the existence of God, I am not amoral nor 'evil' as the bible may choose to depict me. We can see Christian immorality all over the place. All we've done is stopped believing and suddenly we're possessed by the devil. I tried considering it, but how exactly would you go about finding the devil within you? Because if he is, then he's a nice devil who seeks peace in the world. Probably misunderstood by the modern day Christian.


But here's a twist for you, what if the God of the bible is Satan? It would not be unlikely for an evil being to want to play people for fools - look at the history of Christianity, it is violent and destructive, the God of the old testament is violent and destructive, in the old testament he tells people to be violent and destructive, meanwhile Satan tries to turn man from God, in the bible God kills over 2 million people (somebody's actually counted this) whereas the devil, 10. God often tries to bring the wrath...until Jesus comes along, God remains wrathful, but less so, with Jesus passing teachings of love and tolerance, but pain and suffering for all who do not obey. That is one way of screwing around, because by doing that, you're separating the religion and causing conflict in belief, throw in 2 other main religions, you've got yourself plenty of conflict. Is this not the sort of thing a cruel and evil being like a devil would want? And as far as we can see, if it's true, it has worked.

You might laugh because it sound ridiculous to you. But have you really considered that the bible, your convictions and beliefs are put tricks of the devil? I'd probably put this kind of behaviour up with the God of mischief, Loki.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Seppuku on January 11, 2010, 03:28:43 PM


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In the bible, God states to make offerings when you go to church. The church needs money to stay open and feed the poor. You say how can God not answer prayters and do it himself is cause he uses people to do it for him. For if he came down we'd all discinegrate. Our mortal bodies can't stand his presence that's why we have a soul. We got one the minute Adam and Eve ate the apple.

Some churches and not just the Catholic, make quite a bit of profit in collecting donations. That profit is probably better suited for the poor - the point of the protestant church was to have minimal wealth, hence old protestant churches are quite dull, the criticism being that Catholics were corrupt and pocketing wealth that's meant to be for your 'God'. We see still see it to day and more churches as well.

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Um, there is  you've just haven't found it yet. Remember, seek me and you shall find? Obviously, you don't really want to seek him.

I would love to find proof of God. Why? Because it'd make this mortal life less important, I would put up with the next 60+ years worshipping him to be rewarded in the after life instead of punished. What's 80 years in a mortal life compared to an eternity of paradise. I would love for prayers to work, because we could fix so many problems with prayers.

But here begs the question, if you haven't found something you've never found before, yet know it exists? You say we haven't found the evidence yet, but what is there to say that there is any evidence? This is again, presupposing God exists before considering a point. Is there evidence of this evidence?

Also, we have found no evidence that the secret agent James Bond, or 007 exists, I could argue that wait, "there is evidence, you've just not found it yet". The lack of evidence generally suggests that a statement isn't true, up until the evidence is presented. Think of it as a court case - no member of the jury can 'know' if the accused committed the crime, so until the evidence proves so, the person is considered innocent.

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You didn't live in those times to justify your irrational statement.

Justify slavery for us. Forcing people to work for your own benefits, despite the risk of abuse from slavers and even death. The bible allows slavers to abuse and severely punish slaves as the people are considered property of the slavers.
But with an omnipotent and omniscient God peering his head in the time of the old testament, surely this God would have the perfect solution to slavery, rather than endorse it?

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Ever hear of the Shroud of Turin?

De-bunked. Terrible example of Jesus' miracles. I say he looks more like Thor myself - the beard is the right shape.

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God can tell someone to kill someone for the greater kill. If a murderer killed your daughter and could kill again, would you not kill hi to put him to justice so that he may burn in hell for eternity as the Lord promises for the wicked?

What if you were a priest and you caught your daughter engaging in fornication, could demands that you burn her to death. Explain that logic to me.
Plus, kids joke around and call a prophet baldy, God is angry and has them mauled by bears.
Plus, if you, like Ted Haggard find out that you're attracted to the same gender, and have sex with the same gender, is it right that somebody comes along and puts you to death? That's Leviticus 20:13. Ted Haggard by the law of God should be put to death. Is this killing people to avoid greater death? Why would I want ANYBODY to burn for eternity? There's a level of punishment a person can suffer in order to be forgiven. Did Jesus not teach to forgive? The will to have somebody burn for all eternity for their crimes in the eyes of God, no matter how small makes quite the contraction.

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I don't unless I watch the movie with Warwick Davis.

There is proof God exists you just don't seek. Stop repeating yourself you're starting to sound like someone who has no other defense other than to repeat.

It's called triangulation, it's a technique interviewers use. Asking seemingly the same questions in different ways and in different contexts. The purpose is to elicit a range of answers. The interviews I am currently working through, I do the exact same thing. It's journalism, basically.

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For inatnce, if I had 30 millions dollars in my back account. I'd give away 20 and only keeep ten. That's what Jesus means. Don't be greedy.

I would do the same. Except I don't listen to Jesus because I don't believe in his teachings. I am not sure this is what the question meant.

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He's getting rid of the evil. Jeesh, onece again you repeat. You're getting boring.

Evil by his definition. Again, burn a priest's daughter to death because she fornicated? Kill followers of other religions? Murder non believers? Put to death homosexuals? Kill the guy you see working on a Sunday? No matter how moral the lives of the people are? You'd have all of us put to death for being 'evil'. This is why people sometimes refer to Christianity as a 'death cult'. To be honest, I wouldn't let you anywhere near my family if that's your defense for the murderous teachings of the bible. Despite UK law, you'd be standing face down the barrel of a gun if you came near, that is, if you truly believe those teachings are just, which I don't think you do.

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Simply because everyone wants to be right. Grant it, I want Jesus to come so I can stick it to the Jews but I know it's wrong so I respect peopels faith and we they try to say and impose s**t on me of theirs the holy spirit within me gets hurt and I defend.

And probably as you say, God wants people murdered to rid evil, so for each Christian who kills in the name of God, is only really ridding evil. The Crusades were just, because they were basically Christians killing Muslims and God said in the bible to kill non-believers and destroy their towns. The Crusaders were, by the bible, doing the right things. Genocide in countries like Rwanda and Darfur would be approved by God if it were Christians doing it. If you take it that the Jews are of a different religion because they refuse to accept Jesus Christ, then the holocaust would have pleased God, if Hitler had done it for Godly reasons.

You might think, "I don't support all this murder", but in the way your read and support the bible, this is what you're saying and agreeing with.
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Proof #25 - Understand evolution and abiogenesis

Explain me this. Tell me why all humans who are vegitatrians don't turn back into apes after generations of them? Because it's BS. You want evolution....

What created the sun? It wasn't just there? and if an explosion happen, where the f**k did all the organisms come free. Doesn't scince say extreme heat in the sun kill ALL ORGANIMS CAUSE NOTHING CAN SURVIVE IT?!!!!!!

Important word there is 'understand'. Your response proves that you don't. Before you say ANYTHING on Evolution, please learn about it first and not from creationists or creationist sources, generally, they're incredibly inaccurate of describing what 'Evolution' is, because they themselves haven't taken the time to learn and understand evolution. AND you WILL need a lot of research to do this, it's not a simple run of reading off of wikipedia.

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I do and it's scary. I'm afriad of burning in hell for all eternity

Add the fear of burning in Islam hell for eternity. You'll find yourself in a dilemma. We atheists tend to (but not all of us) fear death because it is the end and nothing comes afterwards. Thus life is more important, we see it sad people break down in devotion to God to find that their hopes and dreams aren't there. This is a difficult thing to overcome when you're a Christian becoming an atheist, because the thought of all of the people you love permanently and not fulfilling your hope in heaven is frightening. The fear of hell only pushes your devotion. Why would a loving God cause you so much fear and pain in this life?

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There's only one. As you said before, he has different names but he's one in the same.

So God dressed up as a Goddess and proposed to Gilgamesh, the King of Uruk? You claim only that different names exist because you assert that yours is right and that everybody else is deluded about who God really is. Interestingly, the Sumerians must have had a lot of trouble worshipping Enlil and his buddies in the 6 days they witnessed God create the world 6,000 years ago. But still in witnessing this great event, their belief exists for another 3,000 or so years.

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Hmm, if because of a woman we sinned, would you not get ANGRY with her?

Or maybe teachings such as a woman is not to speak in Church? Or is that a sin, yet men talking in church isn't? Then it is the sin that's sexist.



YES, I did it, I responded to 95% of his answers. Now you can tell me that I spend way too much time on the internet. I hope he reads them and takes them seriously. I hope he appreciates that I just spent over an hour writing that by reading it and considering my points.


[double post, my post exceeded character count limit]



Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: hickdive on January 11, 2010, 03:42:29 PM


Proof #8 - Think about Near Death Experiences

You're calling my parents a liar?


Remember God's plan?

My father was mugged in 2000 and choked to death. He told me he saw a brightlight and the tunnel and said as he tried to head towards he was pushed back and awoken.

Now, if my father had died, I would be homeless. For right now I am in final troubles and if it weren't for God's plan, I'd be homeless.

Also, my mother passed for 10 minutes and came back. She told me she saw God but refused to tell me deatils as she is not allowed to reveal the secrets of the Lord. She did say he was the most beautiful looking person in the world and was very humble, warm and welcoming.

If you tell me I'm lying you can continue to be ignorant. For you just want people to think you're right and that's Satan talking! Did you ever stop to think you could be one of the apostles of Satan and that's why you say this. Hell, you could be the Anti-christ trying to make people beleive you to take us down but you're too ignorant to realize it.

To be continued....


Here's the thing, neither of your parents died, they may have been 'near death', hence they had 'Near Death Experiences', not experiences of being actually dead because if they had actually been dead they wouldn't have come back to tell you about it.
 
The alternative is that they were actually dead and did come back from being dead, which is pretty amazing that both have been in that situation. Kind of makes being dead and coming back not an infrequent occurrence - so why worship someone who has allegedly done something nearly as common as getting a bus?

So which is it to be; nearly dead, in which case their experiences tell us nothing about being actually dead or really dead, which makes your resurrection myth meaningless?

Please do continue, your incoherence is entertaining.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: I am become relevant on January 11, 2010, 03:43:13 PM
CAFMAN, how do you explain the visions that Hindus have?

How do you explain the visions that Muslims have?

We're probably just hallucinating....
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: I am become relevant on January 11, 2010, 03:45:03 PM
[modbreak]

Why are you quoting these large blocks of text?

[/modbreak]

Thanks mod, the wall of text was annoying, but if you go through it you'll notice that he tucked in a sentence or two of his own.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Inactive_1 on January 11, 2010, 03:47:37 PM

Thanks mod, the wall of text was annoying, but if you go through it you'll notice that he tucked in a sentence or two of his own.

Well he can redo the posts then. That's a very good example of  lazy quoting habits.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: GetMeThere on January 11, 2010, 09:32:30 PM
How do you explain what happened?

I respect your dream, CAFMAN, and what you think it means for your life. If it helped you, great, but, since people have had ALL KINDS of dreams and crazy experiences, such experiences can't be expected to have any special meaning for anyone else. I'm sure you understand that.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: GodSaves on January 11, 2010, 10:20:16 PM
Im a christian and I don't know what this guy is saying.
Just stick to replying, I respect what you're doing, but if you give us the wrong reputation, it isn't worth anything
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Zankuu on January 11, 2010, 10:26:12 PM
Im a christian and I don't know what this guy is saying.
Just stick to replying, I respect what you're doing, but if you give us the wrong reputation, it isn't worth anything

If you're worried about the Christian reputation, you may want to scroll through the Mailbag.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Azdgari on January 11, 2010, 11:14:32 PM
The "right reputation" of a group is defined by what people of that group actually do...
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: GodSaves on January 11, 2010, 11:18:37 PM
Stereotypes. If I claimed that many Athiests were stereotypical against believers,  would be being stereotypical, but would I be wrong?
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: JeffPT on January 11, 2010, 11:21:18 PM
This....
Just stick to replying, I respect what you're doing, but if you give us the wrong reputation, it isn't worth anything

From the man who says this...

There were babies, and they need to die, plain and simple.

Reputation indeed. 
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: GodSaves on January 11, 2010, 11:23:28 PM
Maybe God has decided you need to die. I won't be happy, because I like your input, but I would find it hilariously ironic
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Azdgari on January 11, 2010, 11:27:24 PM
The "stereotype" is that the group in question (Christianity) sometimes produces people like the OP.  That's a factual statement, eh?
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: GodSaves on January 11, 2010, 11:30:40 PM
That's not anything Christianity produces on its own.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Azdgari on January 11, 2010, 11:33:38 PM
That's true; it requires a culture that promotes ignorance in combination.  One feeds off of the other, though.  I mean, just look at some of the posts you've made since joining this site.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: JeffPT on January 12, 2010, 12:03:23 AM
Maybe God has decided you need to die. I won't be happy, because I like your input, but I would find it hilariously ironic

Ha, good job trying to hide your anger GodSaves. LOL.  I can see it coming out your ears.  You would be cheering in the streets if I dropped dead.  Just like any hard core Christian like you really would.  While you all preach how "Godsaves", it's all a bunch of s**t.  You don't mean it.  You feel the rage, and the anger, and you would like nothing more than to type it all into that machine in front of you, but you can't.  Because it would mean defeat.  It would be surrendering to the impulses that we all NATURALLY have when our firm beliefs are confronted.  Know what though?  I don't have big mean sky daddy watching over me.  He isn't there, watching every move I make with a pen and paper, writing down every good and bad deed I do.  No.... He isn't there for me. And I am doing just GREAT without him. 

At least you are honest about one thing...  your complete and utter stupidity.  I think we can all agree on that point. 

I would love nothing more than to be a fly on the wall above you after reading this post.  It would be interesting to watch your impotent rage fizzle out in more lies about how "you really do care about us, and how you only came here to bring the word of God".  Whatever.  You came here to preach, and when it went bad, you couldn't cut and run because you would have left knowing you lost hardcore on this one.  You can draw it out as long as you like, but you are STILL going to lose.  Your points are terrible, your defenses of God are extremely immoral, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. 

Bottom line.  God is fake.  There it is.  This is not in question anymore.  There is no God.

Sorry, better get a new hobby. 

 
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: screwtape on January 12, 2010, 07:50:28 AM
Maybe God has decided you need to die. I won't be happy, because I like your input, but I would find it hilariously ironic

hilariously ironic?  You won't be happy, but it would be hilariously ironic?  As in, you would be rolling on the ground in laughter?

Rather than chastising the other guy for ruining your reputation, maybe you want to take that plank out of your eye first, dingus. Because you sound like a real scumbag.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: velkyn on January 12, 2010, 03:36:06 PM
Stereotypes. If I claimed that many Athiests were stereotypical against believers,  would be being stereotypical, but would I be wrong?

am I mistaken or are you claiming the mailbag is fully of stereotypes, that they aren't what they have presented themselves as being?  If so, just who is *making* them such asses and why does your God do nothing?  He certainly seemed to be intent on making those who misrepresented him pay in all sorts of nasty ways (boils anyone?) 
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: dloubet on January 12, 2010, 07:09:21 PM
Quote
Maybe God has decided you need to die. I won't be happy, because I like your input, but I would find it hilariously ironic

Would you be unhappy enough to speak out against the god? Or perhaps unhappy enough to withhold worship?

Or would you just go along with the judgment, and be complicit.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: DVZ3 on January 13, 2010, 03:15:41 PM
Quote
Proof #3 - Look at historical gods

I don't need to. There's only One God and that's the Almighty. Bible states it if you're going according to the bible.



Proof #4 - Think about science

Sciene was invented by man just as God invented science. No need to discuss this further.

CAFMAN6986, you have information stored in your brain in such a way that I cannot even begin to comprehend your day to day life.  You might want to think about doing a system defrag.

Do you have an anti-virus on your computer?  Or do you just pray to God to keep it from harm?
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: RaymondKHessel on January 13, 2010, 04:02:08 PM
This thread is good. If it were a candy, it would be dark chocolate.

Sweet, but with a chemically bitter aftertaste that leaves you feeling a little sick to your stomach, and possibly in need of a poop.  :-\
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Cashinc on January 13, 2010, 05:44:08 PM
Jesus is not to appear again until the time of Armageddon. It says so in revelation.

Ok, so in Matthew 24:34 KJV, Christ says that this generation shall not pass till all things be fulfilled. 

This is in response to the disciples asking when he will return.  So he tells the disciples that he will return in their lifetimes.  Yet 2000 years have passed.  Paul also screamed that in his days Christ would return. 

The previous two verses contradict this as he gives the parable of the fig tree in representation of the reestablishment of Israel, stating that the signs of his return would follow Israel's reestablishment.  Israel was back in 1948. 

Revelations had not been written yet. 

Durn writers should of held a pow wow before entering words into christs mouth.  The entire New Testament is full of horrible contradictions. 

 :o


Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Dkit on January 13, 2010, 06:56:55 PM
^^^I don't think anything I wrote is in that quote, Cashinc. 
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: lectricpharaoh on January 30, 2010, 01:52:32 AM
Quote from: CAFMAN6986
God would look into your heart and see if you're indeed seriously or you're simply doing it out of mockery. If out of mockery he'll simply ignore you. For God is a vengeful God and will not help those he seek him in heart and soul.

So, you just proved right there God exists for he's not listening to your mockery.
Are you kidding me?  If God doesn't answer a prayer, that proves God does exist?  Let's try this one:

I pray for God to prove to me he exists.
I am ignored.
This proves God exists.
Because he proved that he existed (ie, my prayer came true), I know I was not ignored.
However, since I was uttering the prayer out of mockery, my prayer was ignored.  Therefore, God did not prove himself to me.
Because he did not prove himself to me, that means he proved himself to me, answering the prayer.
However, since I was uttering the prayer out of mockery, my prayer was ignored.  Therefore, God did not prove himself to me.
Because he did not prove himself to me, that means he proved himself to me, answering the prayer.
However, since I was uttering the prayer out of mockery, my prayer was ignored.  Therefore, God did not prove himself to me.
Because he did not prove himself to me, that means he proved himself to me, answering the prayer.
However, since I was uttering the prayer out of mockery, my prayer was ignored.  Therefore, God did not prove himself to me.
Because he did not prove himself to me, that means he proved himself to me, answering the prayer.
However, since I was uttering the prayer out of mockery, my prayer was ignored.  Therefore, God did not prove himself to me.
Because he did not prove himself to me, that means he proved himself to me, answering the prayer.
  .
  .
  .


Quote from: CAFMAN6986
And, if you're an invidual who lost someone to cancer, I'm sorry that this caused you to hate God and say he doesn't exists because you prayed and nothing happened.
We don't hate God any more than we hate Santa Claus or Flying Purple People Eaters.  In order to hate something, you first need to believe it exists.

Most of us, however, think that if God of the Christian Bible were real, he would have to be an exceedingly cruel son of a bitch.  Look at some of his 'goodness':

These are only a few examples.  There are many, many more.  Also, if you think that the New Testament changed anything, check out Revelation 2:23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev%202:23&version=KJV) (haha, 'kill her children with death'- like there's another way to kill) and Luke 14:26 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%2014:26&version=KJV) (gotta hate your family to follow Jebus!) for a couple of examples.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #3 - Look at historical gods

I don't need to. There's only One God and that's the Almighty. Bible states it if you're going according to the bible.
Of course you don't need to.  Why bother looking at any other viewpoints?  After all, you've got the Bible!

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #4 - Think about science

Sciene was invented by man just as God invented science. No need to discuss this further.
Your spelling/typing throughout this post is terrible, so how about you think about English, too?

As for science, the fact that we can get so many things right that the Bible gets wrong (or omits altogether) is pretty strong evidence that the Bible was neither written nor inspired by an all-knowing being that created everything.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #5 - Read the Bible

I'm in the process of reading(still in old testament) and I got to say, although it might sound wrong to stone people, you need to understand God needed to embed fear so that we wouldn't sin. In order to do that, people needed to get stoned so that people would know he was serious so that they don't do it. Besides, God already answered the prayer of no more stoning by sending Jesus in to wash away our sins.
So, you haven't even finished it, and you're a full convert?  Are you one of those people who buys every miracle product offered on infomercials, even before Ron Popeil gets to the 'but wait, there's more!' part, or tells you how much it will cost?

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #6 - Ponder God's Plan

I don't like to ponder God's plan, for that is questionig. When I question, bad shit happens to me and don't like that, Thank you very much., Next proof....
Yeah, turn off your brain, thinking is bad.  This is your life motto?

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Just because the Mormons and Muslims belive in "fairty tales" doesn't mean the christians and Jewish are wrong. Your criticizing two races and putting faults on others like if it's ours. Some people do create stories, that's why I only belive Christ and revelation
This would explain why you have a problem with- wait for it- facts.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #8 - Think about Near Death Experiences

You're calling my parents a liar?
Blah blah blah.  Judging from your accounts of your experiences and those of your parents, and the fact that mental illness is often hereditary, I'd say you're fucking nuts- or to use a lovely expression I first saw here, 'bat-shit crazy', and so are your folks.  No disrespect intended.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #9 - Understand ambiguity

If someonehad an uncurable cancer and was miracously cured, and science had no say on how it was possible, it'sd cause it's God...Next proof.
By that sort of logic, if someone had incurable cancer and DIED (believe it or not, it happens), then it's not God.  I bet I can find more cases of 'not God' than you can 'God' in respected medical journals, which means I win.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #10 - Watch the offering plate

In the bible, God states to make offerings when you go to church. The church needs money to stay open and feed the poor. You say how can God not answer prayters and do it himself is cause he uses people to do it for him. For if he came down we'd all discinegrate. Our mortal bodies can't stand his presence that's why we have a soul. We got one the minute Adam and Eve ate the apple.
Wait, we got souls when they ate the apple, or we got mortal bodies?

If we got souls for breaking God's rules, that's like giving your kid candy for scribbling on the walls with a crayon.  If we got bodies only after this act, then it begs the question of how Adam and Eve ate anything without a physical presence.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #11 - Notice that there is no scientific evidence

Um, there is  you've just haven't found it yet. Remember, seek me and you shall find? Obviously, you don't really want to seek him.
Well, since science was created by us (your response to Proof #4), I expect what you're really saying is that this 'scientific evidence' needs to be created by us as well.  There's no need to wait, though; Christians have been creating their 'evidence' for years.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #12 - See the magic

Magic is a term created by people. I'll pass that one.
It didn't stop you from criticizing science.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #13 - Take a look at slavery

You didn't live in those times to justify your irrational statement.
Opposing slavery is irrational?  Please defend your assertion.  I honestly want to see how you think slavery is acceptable, regardless of what time period.  It might have been practiced (widely) in ancient times, but that does not make it right.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #16 - Contemplate the contradictions

God can tell someone to kill someone for the greater kill. If a murderer killed your daughter and could kill again, would you not kill hi to put him to justice so that he may burn in hell for eternity as the Lord promises for the wicked?
I assume you meant 'greater good', not 'greater kill'.  Would I kill in defense of myself, or someone I cared about?  Sure.  Would I go out, vigilante-style, and hunt down the person I thought might maybe possibly been the one to perhaps have done something bad?  Probably not.

Even still, that's a strawman argument.  The contradictions are about far more than just killing, and even if killing was the only issue, God kills massive amounts of innocents, and command the killing of innocents.  To put your example in context, I would need to not only kill the murderer, but every member of his family and probably his nation.  I'd also need to make sure they all went to Hell and suffered forever.  Only then would justice be served.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
There is proof God exists you just don't seek. Stop repeating yourself you're starting to sound like someone who has no other defense other than to repeat.
I think you mean 'evidence', not 'proof'.  Either way, please share it.  Note that the Bible, and things deriving directly or indirectly from it (such as your belief, or that of other Christians), are not acceptable evidence, unless there is another reliable source.  In the same way that you would not allow a criminal defendant to act as his own alibi witness, you cannot use the Bible's claims to prove the validity of the Bible.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #19 - Notice that you ignore Jesus

I don't.
You hate your parents and siblings, then?

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Jesus means to be good to others. If they need help help them. He doesn't expect you to be perfect.

For inatnce, if I had 30 millions dollars in my back account. I'd give away 20 and only keeep ten. That's what Jesus means. Don't be greedy.
How about you- as a devout Christian, who would not mock God- pray for that $30M, and then give $20M to charity?  Better yet, pray for an end to all suffering, disease, hunger, and unhappiness for all people.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #25 - Understand evolution and abiogenesis

Explain me this. Tell me why all humans who are vegitatrians don't turn back into apes after generations of them? Because it's BS. You want evolution....

What created the sun? It wasn't just there? and if an explosion happen, where the fuck did all the organisms come free. Doesn't scince say extreme heat in the sun kill ALL ORGANIMS CAUSE NOTHING CAN SURVIVE IT?!!!!!!
Oh my, you've completely missed the point.  You've also illustrated the point.  You have no idea what either 'evolution' or 'abiogenesis' mean.

Biogenesis (bio (life) + genesis (creation of life)) is the creation of life from existing life.  For example, you have sex and get a girl pregnant (please don't try this, by the way), and she gives birth.  That is an example of life coming from other life.

Abiogenesis is life coming from non-life, as it's biogenesis with the prefix 'a', meaning 'without', or 'lack of' (the prefix, in this case, modifies the fragment 'bio').  It is the concept that molecules that make up life can originate in environments without life.  It has about as much relationship to evolution as television manufacturing has to do with network programming.

Evolution is the theory that organisms (that's a fancy word for 'living things') change over time through successive generations.  Traits that are beneficial to survival are passed on to offspring more frequently, and traits that are detrimental to survival are passed on less frequently.  The cause is obvious: if something increases the odds of survival, then that means more individuals can make babies, and if it decreases those odds, less individuals can make babies.  Thus, over time, a population tends to adapt to its environment.  New traits can be introduced through genetic mutation, and while many of these mutations will be detrimental, those that are beneficial will tend to become more common.  When this process occurs over long enough periods of time, especially when populations are isolated from one another, it can result in new species.  That is a (very) simple introduction to what evolution is.  You should have picked this up in early grade school.

As far as the argument of 'where did ____ come from, if God didn't create it?', I would ask you where God came from.  If God can just pop into existence one day, then so can the universe.  If God can have always existed, then so can the conditions that spawned the universe.  Every possible argument you can pose to explain God's existence can be used to explain the universe as well.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986

Proof #26 - Notice that the Bible's author is not "all-knowing"

Because you have to go look in the archives of the Vatican for me detail.
For you detail?  What does that even mean?  And didn't you say you don't trust anything outside of the Bible?

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #27 - Think about life after death

I do and it's scary. I'm afriad of burning in hell for all eternity.
I'm not, which means I can get on with the business of living my life.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
About soul, can you explain to me why when some does does their body become eaier to pick because they've actually lost weight?
That is what we call a loaded question.  It sticks a premise into the question, and assumes we accept it.  If you want to assert the body becomes lighter after death, show some sources.  It's kind of like if I asked you this: Why do you look at kiddie porn whenever you masturbate?  Note I one-upped you, and stuck two loaded terms into my question.

Quote from: CAFMAN6986
Proof #30 - Examine God's sexism

Hmm, if because of a woman we sinned, would you not get ANGRY with her?
I see people always throwing the free will argument around, then they come up with bullshit like this.  If we have free will, we are responsible for our own choices, not some distant ancestor.  If we have free will, Adam could have turned down the apple (ie, it was not Eve's fault he ate it, it was his own).  If we do not have free will, then why punish people of either gender for something they couldn't help but do?

The whole Adam/Eve/apple thing is just another story used to justify a) persecuting people forever, and b) persecuting women in particular.  This is because the men who wrote the Bible liked their women meek and obedient, and what better way than to say it was God's will?

Quote from: Seppuku
Important word there is 'understand'. Your response proves that you don't.
Hey, maybe you're jumping the gun- maybe he's not ignorant.  He could be willfully misrepresenting it.

Quote from: Seppuku
Before you say ANYTHING on Evolution, please learn about it first and not from creationists or creationist sources, generally, they're incredibly inaccurate of describing what 'Evolution' is, because they themselves haven't taken the time to learn and understand evolution. AND you WILL need a lot of research to do this, it's not a simple run of reading off of wikipedia.
I'd be happy with a Wikipedia-based level of knowledge, compared to what I've seen some theists state.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: fishjie on January 30, 2010, 06:17:05 AM
looks like a case of a drive by christian to me, doubt he'll be posting on this forum again.   he said his piece and now he's gone.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: anthony_retford on February 01, 2010, 10:04:09 AM
Proof #27 - Think about life after death

I do and it's scary. I'm afriad of burning in hell for all eternity.

I am pretty sure that those who believe due to fear of punishment are not true believers and will be inevitably punished in the fires of hell. Now how does that make you feel?
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Superbob092 on February 16, 2014, 08:48:32 PM
I also believe in God, but I have to say, based on the things you write here, you seem like an idiot. You have clearly misinterpreted the Bible if you believe God would want to kill anyone. He doesn't want to kill anyone, for he is a MERCIFUL, not "vengeful" God. Now, to anyone saying God does not exist because you don't have any proof, you just are too stupid to see the proof. It's literally all around you. When a lion kills a zebra for food, it does not feel bad about it, it just kills and eats. However, when we kill another human, we know it's wrong and feel bad about doing it, which is why most of us choose not to kill. The fact that we feel bad when we hurt another, THAT is proof of the Holy Spirit, that is proof of God. The fact that when we look at the sunset or a waterfall or a clear, starry night sky we think "Wow. That's beautiful" is proof of God. The fact that all the conditions on this planet are perfect for us to live here is proof of God. You could say that it is just a coincidence, but there's a time where there are so many coincidences where it stops being a coincidence, and becomes a miracle. It is proof of God
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: jaimehlers on February 16, 2014, 09:33:33 PM
This topic hasn't been posted in for over three years.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: wright on February 16, 2014, 10:58:03 PM
Welcome to the forum, Superbob.

Commenting on a thread that's more than a few weeks old is considered "necromancy" and discouraged. By that time, if no one's contributed to it, most of us consider it finished one way or another and have moved on to something more recent. Feel free to comment on one of the currently active threads.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Nam on February 17, 2014, 12:54:02 AM
This topic hasn't been posted in for over three years.

No one's fault but admins for not locking old topics. I know there's a lot of them but most who necromance are new members.

-Nam
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: The Voice on March 28, 2014, 05:34:32 PM
I would like to respond to the whole issue of the subject matter. That being, whether God exists or not and why HE doesn't do this or that. It has nothing to do with whether or not He is imaginary or that He or Jesus is a liar for there is one thing that GOD cannot do, He is incapable of lying.  This too is scripture! All  of your so-called scientific studies and information may be accurate and even your argument logical but God transcends "All" logic. Those thousands of people gathered together to pray for a certain event to happen without results; to a true believer and child of God, it is merely a test for God to prove He exists. Sorry but God doesn't perform His miracles on test surveys. His words are if you expect to receive anything from Him you must first believe HE IS! Start there! Then you have to have an understanding of the difference between HOPE, Faith and just wishing  real hard. HOPE itself is a real function but by itself is empty. Take that statement and use it to examine however million people you want to pray hoping God heard you. As for amputees, I will admit I have never heard of any actual event other than the ones Jesus performed while he was here. However I know that He created a few creatures who do it quite often...imagine that! The lizard that grows his tail back and the shark whose teeth continue to replace themselves. Give your credit to evolution and you will never know the true God who considers every living thing and not just people! As for never seeing it happen to a human person, I ask you to be honest in your consideration,1.if you don't really believe God exists why ask Him for anything? 2.if you only hope God hears your prayers how long, does He get, to answer? What time frame satisfies YOU! If a cure for cancer is found say tomorrow, would scientist get the credit, or would you say God answered your/our prayers? God exists whether you choose to believe it or not. He doesn't have to prove Himself to you or me or anyone else. He never had to send His son to die for yours and my ignorance. To believe in God is always and will always be a choice. I suggest you start with something simple like just saying Thank You for you existence and acknowledge that, before you get into asking for cures for cancer. Now then you don't have to take my word for it either and yet "I am"a real person too, but a lot of time and labor is and has been spent to find the cure for cancer and even cloning for making human parts. In that, simply consider it being worked on but not so scientist can claim to be GOD for their wisdom comes from Him to start with silly wabbit! Perhaps your god isn't God at all only who you conceive him to be. Mine isn't some genie that just grants three wishes at my command. Think bigger! The doubt you are having and creating is not the cure, it too, is much like that cancer you can't find the cure for and you are spreading it further. Reply and I will tell you more. The Voice has spoken!!!!
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: ParkingPlaces on March 28, 2014, 05:57:50 PM
Welcome The Voice.

You could go a long way towards assuring us that there is a god by first praying that he will teach you about how to use paragraphs. We would be impressed.

When a god who feels no pressure to prove his existence behaves exactly as a non-existent god would behave, we atheists tend to jump the gun and assume the latter. Or, you guys jump the gun and assume the former.

As one who never prays, who never expects results from non-prayer, and as one who sees all events as natural and without supernatural intervention, nothing within my purview seems to require a god-based explanation. Neither kindness nor cruelty confounds me. No event, either wonderful or tragic, has ever seemed impossible before hand. Stuff happens. No god is required. And I've no idea how people convince themselves otherwise.

When my father was dying of cancer, not once did I pray for him to get better. Others did, I assume. But not me. If there is a god, I assume he knew what he was doing. If there isn't, it would have been a waste of my time.

I was just thinking the other day. I am almost 63. I have 12 first cousins and two brothers. The youngest of us is 54. All of us are still alive. All of our children are still alive. All of the grandchildren are still alive. None of us has even been seriously injured, none of us has ever had cancer or a heart attack. None of us has been victim to a serious crime. And most of us are atheists. And the ones that aren't do go to church anyway.

What are we doing wrong? What are we missing? Who should we hate to have a normal, horror filled, jesus loving life? Where is our fear-laden inspiration to turn to your god?

I am a calm, peaceful person who understands that life has so many variables that religion is an inevitable outcome of certain social conditions. I understand that many people want an outside force to influence them. I understand that people create needs that cannot be met by life alone, and that the imaginary often does a better job than reality, when a false positive outlook is preferred over whatever is real. So I don't blame people for being religious.

I do blame them for being afraid of the right questions, though.

Added: Sorry everyone. I didn't realize this was a dead thread. If The Voice wishes to continue this discussion, I'll start a new thread that includes his initial post or something.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Jag on March 28, 2014, 05:58:59 PM
Wow, lots of claims, not a shred of evidence, aside from a book about the Jewish people and magic written 2000 years ago.

No need to tell any of us anything more, we got it now.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Nam on March 28, 2014, 07:26:51 PM
I would like to respond to the whole issue of the subject matter.

I highly doubt that.

Quote
That being, whether God exists or not and why HE doesn't do this or that. It has nothing to do with whether or not He is imaginary or that He or Jesus is a liar for there is one thing that GOD cannot do, He is incapable of lying.

How can something that is irrelevant as to whether it exists or not be capable of anything?

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This too is scripture!

So? That automatically makes it true because some book says so? Thst's asinine.

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All  of your so-called scientific studies and information may be accurate and even your argument logical but God transcends "All" logic.

Fictional things, or things people tend to have no evidence for, seem to be able to do anything their crestor[1] say they can. Doesn't make it reality.

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Those thousands of people gathered together to pray for a certain event to happen without results; to a true believer and child of God, it is merely a test for God to prove He exists. Sorry but God doesn't perform His miracles on test surveys. His words are if you expect to receive anything from Him you must first believe HE IS! Start there!

That's the problem you, and others have. You're told to believe something based on faith, therefore it must be true because evidence would show (and ultimately does show) it doesn't, or mostly probable that it does not exist and therefore reality is wrong. That's asinine.

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Then you have to have an understanding of the difference between HOPE, Faith and just wishing  real hard. HOPE itself is a real function but by itself is empty. Take that statement and use it to examine however million people you want to pray hoping God heard you. As for amputees, I will admit I have never heard of any actual event other than the ones Jesus performed while he was here. However I know that He created a few creatures who do it quite often...imagine that! The lizard that grows his tail back and the shark whose teeth continue to replace themselves. Give your credit to evolution and you will never know the true God who considers every living thing and not just people!

I think you mean: every living thing BUT people. Why the lizard and not the human? Does the lizard pray? Will it go to heaven? The fact you link the two as being rational shows you're not rational and neither is your god.

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As for never seeing it happen to a human person, I ask you to be honest in your consideration,1.if you don't really believe God exists why ask Him for anything? 2.if you only hope God hears your prayers how long, does He get, to answer? What time frame satisfies YOU! If a cure for cancer is found say tomorrow, would scientist get the credit, or would you say God answered your/our prayers?

Analogies escape you, don't they? Devil's Advocate, too?

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God exists whether you choose to believe it or not. He doesn't have to prove Himself to you or me or anyone else. He never had to send His son to die for yours and my ignorance. To believe in God is always and will always be a choice. I suggest you start with something simple like just saying Thank You for you existence and acknowledge that, before you get into asking for cures for cancer.

Asinine.

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Now then you don't have to take my word for it either and yet "I am"a real person too, but a lot of time and labor is and has been spent to find the cure for cancer and even cloning for making human parts. In that, simply consider it being worked on but not so scientist can claim to be GOD for their wisdom comes from Him to start with silly wabbit! Perhaps your god isn't God at all only who you conceive him to be.

Atheists do not have gods that's why we're called atheists.

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Mine isn't some genie that just grants three wishes at my command. Think bigger! The doubt you are having and creating is not the cure, it too, is much like that cancer you can't find the cure for and you are spreading it further. Reply and I will tell you more. The Voice has spoken!!!!

A genie would make more sense.

-Nam
 1. theists
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Graybeard on March 28, 2014, 07:52:25 PM
I would like to respond to the whole issue of the subject matter. That being, whether God exists or not and why HE doesn't do this or that. It has nothing to do with whether or not He is imaginary or that He or Jesus is a liar for there is one thing that GOD cannot do, He is incapable of lying. This too is scripture!
Like so many who call themselves Christian, you have never even bothered to read the Bible to find out what sort of god you are worshipping:

God Tells Lies
1 Kings 22:19-24 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.  And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so.  Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. 

Jeremiah 4:10
    Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.

Jeremiah 20:7
    O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
    For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

2 Chronicles 18:22
    Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.

Ezekiel 14:9
    And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.

You may wish to apologise for being wrong.


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Sorry but God doesn't perform His miracles on test surveys.
Sorry, read Judges:6

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His words are if you expect to receive anything from Him you must first believe HE IS! Start there! Then you have to have an understanding of the difference between HOPE, Faith and just wishing  real hard.
You could start by wishing to understand your god a little better.
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As for amputees, I will admit I have never heard of any actual event other than the ones Jesus performed while he was here. However I know that He created a few creatures who do it quite often...imagine that! The lizard that grows his tail back and the shark whose teeth continue to replace themselves.
So, your god loves lizards more than mankind... interesting.

Basically, you seem to be saying that, without any evidence at all, other than what people have told you, you really do not know if there is a god or not.

Tell me, why do Hindus say you are deluded and that their gods are the real ones? I don't think your god exists for the same reason that you don't think their gods exist.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Nam on March 28, 2014, 09:21:07 PM
You don't believe hindu gods exist because the Bible tells you they don't? Because that's his reasons as to why they do not.

-Nam
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Astreja on March 29, 2014, 12:06:52 AM
His words are if you expect to receive anything from Him you must first believe HE IS! Start there!

I can't just believe -- My brain simply doesn't work that way.  I require evidence in the form of an encounter with a god, in a physical body in the real world.

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If a cure for cancer is found say tomorrow, would scientist get the credit, or would you say God answered your/our prayers?

I'd almost certainly give the credit to scientists.  I work in medicine and have a family member who works in cancer research.  I've never prayed for a cure for cancer, nor for any other disease.

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To believe in God is always and will always be a choice.

Not for Me, it isn't.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: shaheen on April 15, 2014, 05:56:39 PM
Hi dear all,

Just read these links and then comment:

Quran with English translation:

https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/

challenge by doctor Zakir Naik:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdpknMMyxyE

Kind regards

Shaheen
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: ParkingPlaces on April 15, 2014, 06:19:50 PM
Welcome Shaheen.

Anaxagoras, of Athens, was imprisoned a thousand years before your religion even started for saying that the moon reflected the light of the sun. Because he was also saying that the sun was not a god. Science wasn't popular among theists then either. You guys sure are stubborn.

But it was not a muslim discovery. It was not your allah telling us this.

However, if you can't accept the possibility of a universe without an intelligent inventor/designer/egocentric deity, your certainly not going to let facts get in the way anyhow.
Title: Re: Response to the claim "God is Imaginary"
Post by: Nam on April 16, 2014, 04:56:16 AM
Welcome Shaheen.

Anaxagoras, of Athens, was imprisoned a thousand years before your religion even started for saying that the moon reflected the light of the sun. Because he was also saying that the sun was not a god. Science wasn't popular among theists then either. You guys sure are stubborn.

But it was not a muslim discovery. It was not your allah telling us this.

However, if you can't accept the possibility of a universe without an intelligent inventor/designer/egocentric deity, your certainly not going to let facts get in the way anyhow.

Don't bother, they're a spammer. All their comments is exactly like the one above. I reported them.

-Nam