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91
General Religious Discussion / Re: Hell and the end of life
« Last post by jaimehlers on Yesterday at 01:44:01 PM »
^Being a veteran of tabletop RPGs, I must disagree with your analysis, Jst.  Most players are not even slightly interested in "writing a story"; they simply respond to whatever challenges the GM throws at them, generally to defeat them and loot whatever treasure they were protecting.  It is more of a matter of filling in the blanks than in helping to write the story, because the story is mostly already written before the game ever starts.

Furthermore, your analogy fails in one key respect; in a tabletop RPG, the players and GM are all aware that it is a game.  By comparison, what's described in the Bible is anything but; for all the humans involved, it is quite in earnest and really matters.  That is not anything like a tabletop game; it's closer to the Hunger Games.

So I'm arguing that the Hunger Games (not the books, but the actual 'games' as written in the books) are closer to what you're looking for.  Certainly, the participants have some input into what happens (for example, whether to team up with someone, or to kill someone else), but the fact of the matter is that if they don't follow the rules as set down for them by the people who run the Games, they get killed.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Do Muslims need to condemn ISIL?
« Last post by Jstwebbrowsing on Yesterday at 01:23:07 PM »
From what I know of Islam there is no Muslim, or group of Muslims, that can actually "condemn" the actions of any other Mulsim.  There is no authority in Islam.  It is a very individualistic religion.  Private interpretation is welcome and maybe even encouraged.  A Muslim can express that they don't share the same views as another but that's as far as it goes.  There is no such thing as even disfellowshipping a Muslim, at least not as far as I am aware.
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And the number of new HIV cases of protected heterosexual intercourse is staggeringly disproportionate to the new HIV cases of unprotected heterosexual intercourse. Again, this is not an argument against homosexual intercourse. You're ignoring the real (main) cause of HIV infections - unprotected intercourse - and focusing on a subset of that cause. Cherry picking is a fallacy.

i agree that a person has a higher risk of contracting HIV (or any sexually transmitted disease) if they have unprotected intercourse vs protected intercourse regardless if they're heterosexual or homosexual.  but that is not my argument.  you also stated that the real, main cause of HIV is unprotected intercourse, and i agree.  then you accused me of focusing on a subset... which i am not.

my argument is within the context of unprotected sexual intercourse in the US.  in the context of unprotected sexual intercourse in the US, those who practice male to male intercourse are extremely more likely to contract HIV than those who practice heterosexual intercourse.
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In actual point of fact, provided neither partner is infected with HIV, it is impossible for either to become infected through sex with each other.  This holds true regardless of whether you are talking about heterosexual or homosexual sex, or whether you are talking about protected or unprotected sex.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Hell and the end of life
« Last post by Jstwebbrowsing on Yesterday at 01:12:54 PM »
And I want him to answer your point about screenplays and predestination!

I think something like a tabletop rpg would be a better analogy.  The players themselves write the story but the storyteller determines it's direction.  A good storyteller can give players absolute freedom yet still accomplish his own goals.  A really good storyteller that knows his players can even use the players to accomplish the storyteller's goals while still giving players absolute freedom.  The players write the story yet it's the exact story the storyteller wanted from the beginning.

That's not a perfect analogy but it is closer than a screenplay.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Hell and the end of life
« Last post by Jstwebbrowsing on Yesterday at 12:58:42 PM »
If 'no', then I stand behind my 'the only unforgivable sin is not earnestly wanting and asking for forgiveness' schtick.

That is not an inaccurate description, but it's only a partial description. 

Quote
I honestly think you need to accept that it's possible for Satan to, sometime in the future, repent and be forgiven.

Satan has no conscience left and never will.  He is not able to sincerely repent.

Quote
So I have to ask: If you went back in time, and discovered that Judas was having second thoughts about betraying Jesus, would you do it for him?

I hope not.
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Chatter / Re: do you believe in progress?
« Last post by frank callaway on Yesterday at 12:55:35 PM »
The idea of "better" is meaningless without context and perspective.  So, a thing can be both better and worse, depending on perspective.

what do you think about marshall brains deciding to be better site?  i read the "meaning of life" page and was a bit let down.  his story on generosity implies by doing so (being generous), your life will have meaning... which of course it will not.  one could just as easily say keeping that $100 for yourself would be more meaningful to you; depending on who you are.

and then he says... "Would our lives be better, would they have more meaning, if we knew we were working together toward common goals as a species?"... to which i would say exactly what you inferred, which is - better for who or what and why...?  when marshall explains "heaven on earth", would that be better for the plants and animals, or as you say, the bacteria and fungi...?
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Frank, do you have any stats on the rate of HIV transmission between homosexual men who are not already infected with HIV?

Because as it stands, your argument applies just as much against sex with people from certain African nations, as it does between two men.

Which is to say, not at all, provided one uses proper protection.
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of course... but the argument is not that unprotected sex in general leads to a higher risk of contracting HIV.  the argument is that unprotected male to male intercourse leads to a staggering disproportionate number of new HIV cases when compared to unprotected heterosexual intercourse.  so when it comes to HIV risk factors... male to male intercourse is extremely more risky than hetero intercourse.

And the number of new HIV cases of protected heterosexual intercourse is staggeringly disproportionate to the new HIV cases of unprotected heterosexual intercourse. Again, this is not an argument against homosexual intercourse. You're ignoring the real (main) cause of HIV infections - unprotected intercourse - and focusing on a subset of that cause. Cherry picking is a fallacy.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Do Muslims need to condemn ISIL?
« Last post by Timo on Yesterday at 12:40:01 PM »
kcrady, you raise some good points. I think that the analogy works insofar as, by asking someone to answer for the wrongs of a group we're pre-supposing that they subscribe to an ideology that we have no reason to believe that they actually subscribe. In the case of the Turkish Jews mentioned in the article, their critics were pre-supposing that they are not only to Zionists but fans of the right wing Netanyahu government. In the case of ISIL, we're asking Muslims to answer for a specific version of political Islam that we have no reason to assume they subscribe to. In many cases, they might belong to sects and ethnic groups that are actually targeted by ISIL. I just find it absurd that say, a Kurdish Sunni should be asked to condemn a group that is currently at war with his countrymen. I don't see how the political structure envisioned in the Quran really even enters into it.

Parking Places, I agree. Not too long ago, I remember that there were artists in Pakistan that made a huge print of the face of a young girl and laid them out in a field as a reminder to the drone operators that the people they kill are people and not bugs on a screen. And yeah, I think it's odd to ask someone who's concerns are there to be exercised about the beheadings of a few Westerners, awful as they were. We're talking about 200 little children. We're talking about folks just trying to enjoy a wedding. It's awful.
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