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Why Won't God Heal Amputees? / Re: I don't really get the question...
« Last post by nogodsforme on Yesterday at 05:09:22 PM »
^^^Very well put.

There are other problems with what frank said:
1) It does not appear to be true. People who try to follow what they think are "god's rules" or adapt themselves to a "god's design" do not have objectively better lives. In fact, they often have worse lives than average. Global stats show that high amounts of direct religious influence or control is inversely correlated with factors most people would say contribute to a nice life-- access to food, clothing, shelter, well paid work, medical care and education. Low violent crime and social policies that promote harmony and peaceful communities are the hallmarks of the less religious countries.

2) There is no agreement historically or geographically on who or what this god is, what it wants, and how to go about knowing anything about it. Which religion's holy book is the right one? The most popular? Christianity. The most difficult? Buddhist texts. The oldest? Gita. The newest? Scientology. The fastest growing? Islam. The most obscure? Book of the Dead. The rarest? Zoroastrian texts. And there are hundreds of religions with no official written texts at all like Rasta, Vodun and Santeria. What if one of them is true? How to learn about them?

3) People who don't try to follow "god's rules" and who live "outside of god's design" don't suffer any terrible cosmic fate, as far as anyone can tell. It is not like touching a hot stove and immediately getting burned. Kids have to be taught what is right and wrong in their society. They learn over time to feel bad when they hurt someone else. And it is not even that everyone feels bad when they hurt someone else, although most people do. Sociopaths can lie, cheat, steal and hurt without feeling bad at all.

Would a real god leave things this confusing?
Come on guys, I think it's a good question, and a fun one too.
If God personally revealed himself to you, and you knew it with 100% certainly that your atheism was a lie, and that you were face-to-face with God, would you say, "I hate you?"
How hard is it to answer "yes or no" to a hypothetical question?

Typically I run into a vicious circle, I want to name it "the circle of atheism".

Here you go, enjoy.

(1) Christian : What do you think about God, Christian God?
(2) Atheist : Christian God is such a genocidal prick monster!!
(3) Christian : You atheists really seem to hate the omnipotent character in the bible.
(4) Atheist : Pssst, we don't, we can't  hate something we believe imaginary!!
(5) Christian : Okay then What do you think about Christian God?
      Go to line number (2) and start all over.  &)

Are we supposed to assume that the god who revealed himself is every bit as the bible describes him? What if he is a totally different god?

I can't hate anything I really know nothing about.
General Religious Discussion / Re: Non existent Yaweh proof
« Last post by Nam on Yesterday at 04:55:58 PM »

 With a singularity, time stops.

That is pure assumption, you could not possibly know, please provide evidence of it. Thank you.

There's no point, you're talking to a know-it-all. Apparently, he knows more than astrophysicists which is where the base of my opinion comes from. And not just one but many.


He's making a decent case. His attitude is independent from the information he's trying to present.

No he isn't. He's presenting a "know-it-all" view like in the "Selfless" topic. I dislike know-it-alls, you can't debate them.

Plus he's making a case for "our time", I'm not even talking about that and he's flat out dismissing what I am talking about that many current astrophysicists are talking about at the moment, which I agree with (because it makes sense) and even the astrophysicists who disagree don't flat out say the otherside is wrong. That's what OAA is doing, he's dismissing it outright but he's not applying the same model; he's using a square model and trying to fit it in a triangle model but skipping the "trying" part and just ending with: it fits.

I believe in our Heavenly bodies we will not get bored. God can easily make it so that we are not bored. He is after all, all-powerful. Did you guys forget that?

It's always the simple things that you guys forget.

The problem is that you seem to always forget that you don't actually believe that he is all, all-powerful.  As others have noted, here and many other times in other threads in the past, he appears to only be all, all-powerful when you need him to be all, all-powerful in order for you to not have to flipping think about a question.  When there is another question or response that pops up to you, and it becomes convenient for god to suddenly be unable to do something (e.g. salvation without the innocent blood sacrifice, unambiguous obviousness without negatively impacting the free will of his beloved creations, elimination of suffering without impacting the free will of his beloved creations, etc.), then god is suddenly not all, all-powerful.

So many damn times, skeptic54768.  So, so often.  It's getting incredibly ridiculous how transparent your acts of closing your eyes and covering your ears are when it comes to thinking about your own beliefs.

It's incredibly frustrating, skeptic54768.  Frustrating and sad.  I'm putting in a bet that you're going to disappear from this thread and simply pretend that the issues with your "oh he's all, all-powerful and can do absolutely anything" gambit.  Kinda like this thread:,28494.msg661194.html#msg661194

And no, I don't believe it's because you're too busy.  Yes, everyone, including you, has lives outside of this forum that definitely take precedence over the babble that we spit back and forth with each other.  But it is really, really obvious that you bump into these cognitive brick walls - you bump into these responses and questions that seem to force you to just run away and not face the rather glaring errors in your thinking and beliefs.  It's really, really obvious that you run away from these threads because you simply don't want to think too hard about the shit that you earnestly believe, because, frankly, I'm guessing that you're either too scared to actually do so, or too close-minded to.

It's really obvious, it's really frustrating, and it's really sad.  If there is a god, and if he really does care about you, he must be really disappointed in you.

I'm guessing that skeptic54768 never posts in this thread again.
I suspect-- and there is research to back this up-- that the religious folk, mainly guys, who are the most freaked about gays becoming accepted by mainstream society, are afraid of their own gay impulses. I heard conservative radio jerk Michael Medved go on an anti-gay rant once about banning gays from the military and my (admittedly mostly inaccurate) gaydar went crazy. [1]

What will hold them in check if it is legal and no longer persecuted? If even some churches are accepting teh gay. If it becomes just another way to be. Why be straight? Why not be gay? That is why they are so set on it being a choice. Every day they choose to be straight. Every single blasted day. Choosing it hard. So hard their hands shake.

And those damn homos running around acting all happy and free. Getting married. Going to parades. Look at them. Bodies all smooth and toned. In those skimpy bondage costumes. It is sooooo disgusting. Don't want to see boring images of gays doing normal things. Let me scroll through and find a few more shocking explicit photos to see how sinful those gays are.

Need to watch some not homoerotic at all male buddy movies or maybe some football......right sketic, John and frank? ;)
 1. Gay icon David Sedaris writes about how he and the one other gay guy in his high school jumped right in eagerly when other kids tormented a student suspected of being a faggot. They knew that making that kid's life a living hell protected them a bit longer.
General Religious Discussion / Re: I can fly.
« Last post by One Above All on Yesterday at 04:29:59 PM »
Sure, I believe you can fly... But can you touch the sky? &)
General Religious Discussion / Re: I can fly.
« Last post by Defiance on Yesterday at 04:29:30 PM »
That airline thing isn't impressive.

The electrons from your butt atoms repel the electrons from the seat atoms. So EVERYONE is always floating above their chairs.
General Religious Discussion / Re: Non existent Yaweh proof
« Last post by Defiance on Yesterday at 04:24:41 PM »

 With a singularity, time stops.

That is pure assumption, you could not possibly know, please provide evidence of it. Thank you.

There's no point, you're talking to a know-it-all. Apparently, he knows more than astrophysicists which is where the base of my opinion comes from. And not just one but many.


He's making a decent case. His attitude is independent from the information he's trying to present.
I am happy to answer that question.
If any god being showed up IRL who was responsible for even a fraction of the awful things in the bible, I would tell it I hated it. To its face. And so would anyone with a conscience.

This god being supposedly:
-- set up A and E to be tricked so they would screw up and damn all humans and everything else alive (except viruses) to suffering and death,
--drowned most every living thing, including puppies and kittens and babies and retarded people in a ginormous flood,
--ordered Abraham to kill his child and then at the last minute went, "Psych!" to make a point
--sent horrible plagues and death to the people of a country because their king was a bad guy (and he was made bad on purpose to make a point)
--tortured Job and killed his family to make a point
--imposed dramatic and massive punishments on people, their kids, entire cities, entire ethnic groups, just to make a point
--chose one ethnic group and told them it was A-OK to massacre, enslave, kidnap, rape and torment other ethnic groups

And so on. That is just off the top of my head from the OT, and not even getting into the NT. Now this god being made a lot of promises and then has been off playing hide and seek for thousands of years, allowing people to follow all kinds of different false religions and phony gods who seem just as real.

Or depending on who you ask, this loving god being left the world in the hands of his worst enemy and a group of terrible demons to play with for a while. Then after all that, the god being shows up and has the nerve to demand worship? And threaten people if they don't? What is there to like? Please tell me.

That is so battered child syndrome. Dad beat up Mom, and put brother out into the streets, and molested sis, and stole grandma's life savings, and killed the family pets, and promised to make everything right, but then disappeared for a few years and did not call or pay child support all that time. He is a really wonderful guy, really. The best. He has his reasons for what he has done, reasons that the kids just could not understand at the time. Now he shows up, looking happy and prosperous:
Hey kids! I'm back! Don'tcha love me?
Uhhh, no.
What do you mean you don't love me? I'm your Dad.
Piss off, you bastard.
Why are you all so angry at me? 
Get out. We want nothing to do with you.
But I created you. You have to love me. And fear my wrath if you don't show me the respect I deserve.....

WTF is that but some kind of psycho extortion racket?

No. Not happening.  :P

Even if I was absolutely certain that this god being made the universe, I cannot see myself liking it, let alone loving it or worshiping it.   Like others have said, it would have a helluva lot of 'splainin' to do. If the explanation was good enough we would see. It would have to convince me, for example, that drowning millions of people, including babies, was not a terrible act. That slavery was a fine way to organize a society. That rapists should just pay the dad and marry their victims. That stoning to death is how to handle adulterers, fornicators, gays, lesbians, smart mouth kids, and unbelievers. That all those things represent an unchanging moral code, so they are still acceptable today.

I would have to be a different person than I am right now to be able to love someone who apparently did lots of evil things. At best I would pretend out of fear, or to protect my family. But genuine heartfelt love or respect, no. That is what you are asking me to do. Love and respect someone that seems to be evil. No. Not. Happening.

And I suppose I would therefore suffer the god being's wrath and be tormented by eternal hellfire. Or whatever. Luckily none of this is real.  :)
General Religious Discussion / Re: Non existent Yaweh proof
« Last post by One Above All on Yesterday at 04:17:52 PM »
Apparently, he knows more than astrophysicists which is where the base of my opinion comes from. And not just one but many.

Argument from authority, argumentum ad populum. Still, if you wanna play that game, where do you think I get my info from? I'm not pulling it out of my ass, you know. One of my teachers is the astrophysicist in charge of my country's most important astronomical observatory. His info, on the other hand, comes from what he and other astrophysicists know.


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