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91
I know.  I was asking you.  Why did you "choose one" instead of another?  When did you make that decision, and why did you make it at that time?
92
Chatter / Re: Why do old people hate young people?
« Last post by Azdgari on June 21, 2017, 10:41:31 AM »
The fact that I have given advice to young people that they did not follow, which resulted in them getting fucked over. Eventually they started coming to me for advice all on their own. I've also been wrong before, in which case I followed their lead for whatever endeavour we were engaged in.

So you know that having your body of experience feels the same as having an "old person's" body of experience?  Again, on what do you base this?
93
Chatter / Re: Why do old people hate young people?
« Last post by velkyn on June 21, 2017, 10:35:49 AM »
I'm not sure why you vilify most or many "old" people (another variable that you seem to have no idea what it is) and play pretend that young people (another vague claim) are inviolate.

I've seen more old people be condescending pricks to young people based on age than I have the reverse. I did not mean to imply that young people are inviolate, though going back, I can see how that's implied. Young people can be dicks to old people as well solely because they're old.

OK, that's good.  Now, your personal experience tells you that those old people you have met may trend one way or the other.  But most in general, well, the jury's still out on that. 
94
Chatter / Re: Why do old people hate young people?
« Last post by Emma286 on June 21, 2017, 10:06:10 AM »
I didn't ask him to criticize my post, he choose to do it and not very tactfully. As he gets older maybe he will learn to appreciate what others offer him or disregard what they offer more gracefully.

I agree that what was said wasn't said in the most tactful way that it could have been. I personally would have worded that somewhat differently. But, Stuffin, he is allowed to comment honestly that he finds something to be invalid if he has good reason to see that it is. If somebody shared something with you that you had very good reason to find invalid, wouldn't you feel inclined to say? Wouldn't you want to be honest about that? Sometimes, there's no way to entirely avoid being critical regarding what others say - not if we want to express ourselves honestly at said relevant points!

Some of his responses:

Quote
Maybe if the older person were actually more mature and didn't act like a condescending dick, we'd listen more.

Quote
The first quote is 100% condescending bullshit

Quote
I've never heard it from an old person without it being some way to mock young people

Quote
Well, old people are usually condescending, arrogant, ignorant assholes to younger people

When you lace your response with this type of verbiage it makes it difficult for the readers to see past the hate. This is one person's experience/opinion regarding older people. Makes you wonder why they treat him like they do.

I can see why you find it hard to see past the angry tone expressed in some of those statements/why you'd get the idea that they are full of hate.

But haven't you ever felt passionately angry about something and expressed this to anyone? Have you ever done this kind of thing in error?

People can easily fall into doing these things, without it meaning that they're actually an asshole. Just from their point of view, they're expressing what is true to them - even if, in some cases, their point of view might be flawed and they might be feeling pretty pissed off.

Imagine if your experiences with elderly people had been very different to the one's you've had. Imagine if you'd experienced virtually nothing but negativity and maybe even abuse in your interactions with them? You might well feel a lot of resentment/anger about it too, whenever remembering it and talking about it. But would that automatically make you an asshole?

Just saying...
95
Chatter / Re: Why do old people hate young people?
« Last post by One Above All on June 21, 2017, 09:57:53 AM »
I'm not sure why you vilify most or many "old" people (another variable that you seem to have no idea what it is) and play pretend that young people (another vague claim) are inviolate.

I've seen more old people be condescending pricks to young people based on age than I have the reverse. I did not mean to imply that young people are inviolate, though going back, I can see how that's implied. Young people can be dicks to old people as well solely because they're old.
96
Chatter / Re: Why do old people hate young people?
« Last post by velkyn on June 21, 2017, 09:52:23 AM »
so my existence shows your vast generalization is wrong, doesn't it?

Not another one...
Read the first sentence of the OP.

still baseless unsupported bullshit that doesn't acknowledge that it doesn't matter if one is old or young to be a twit.   I'm not sure why you vilify most or many "old" people (another variable that you seem to have no idea what it is) and play pretend that young people (another vague claim) are inviolate.
97
Chatter / Re: Why do old people hate young people?
« Last post by stuffin on June 21, 2017, 09:47:51 AM »
Stuffin, I don't know if this will help (and appreciating that One is better qualified than me to explain exactly what he meant at different times in this post), but I will share my take on where he was coming from with these following post comments of his (which I am guessing were the offending one's from your point of view):

The first quote is 100% condescending bullshit. Here's my own take on that: life and votes (democracy) are wasted on the old.

The second quote is used to be condescending. I've never heard it from an old person without it being some way to mock young people.

The third is an attempted rationalization of the previous two quotes, whose meaning is not what it says there. However, on its own, it is true. It's an expanded form of "hindsight is 20/20".

He was criticising the quotes, not criticising you for sharing them!

As we get older we develop a sense of who is giving us good advice and who we needn't listen to.

That doesn't come with age. It comes with intelligence. Even as a toddler, I was pretty sure I shouldn't listen to a guy dumber than myself, or a guy who constantly contradicted himself while he spoke.

Age gives you wrinkles and poor health. Nothing else automatically comes with it.

He was expressing what he understands as being true, to try to be helpful, in a matter of fact way. I can appreciate why that would have been far from obvious however (as this intention wasn't directly communicated, and voice tone can't be heard via this method of interaction) and why that might have seemed dismissive of what you said. I personally would have worded that a bit more tactfully, but I'm pretty sure that he wasn't intending to come over as rude.

I live in an area where we have one the highest populations of elderly in the nation, plus, I work in the medical field. As I progressed through my career I have changed how I see them. 30 years ago they were the "damn old pain in the asses." Now-a-days, I see them as a resource, I have patient's in their late 80s and several in their 90s who are totally in the game. When I talk to them I try and relate to "their time" and understand what was going on "back then." I have talked to a person who stormed the beaches of Iwo Jima, one guy who lost his feet to frostbite in Korea and several who were Tunnel Rats in Viet Nam.

As people, you might find them interesting, and I respect that, but if all you can discuss with them is historical events, you might as well grab a book.

One did already confirm in there that he respected your finding those older people interesting. He also later confirmed that he just meant in his personal opinion and admitted that he was in error over not making this clearer to you earlier. I can appreciate why that originally came off as dictating to you what to do though. Although he didn't mean it that way, not adding the IMO certainly made it read that way.

I ain't as good as once was, but I'm good once as I ever was.

This is nonsense.

Again, he wasn't putting you down. He was putting the quote down.

I hope that helps.

I didn't ask him to criticize my post, he choose to do it and not very tactfully. As he gets older maybe he will learn to appreciate what others offer him or disregard what they offer more gracefully. 

Some of his responses:

Quote
Maybe if the older person were actually more mature and didn't act like a condescending dick, we'd listen more.

Quote
The first quote is 100% condescending bullshit

Quote
I've never heard it from an old person without it being some way to mock young people

Quote
Well, old people are usually condescending, arrogant, ignorant assholes to younger people

When you lace your response with this type of verbiage it makes it difficult for the readers to see past the hate. This is one person's experience/opinion regarding older people. Makes you wonder why they treat him like they do.
98
Chatter / Re: Why do old people hate young people?
« Last post by Emma286 on June 21, 2017, 09:43:51 AM »
Anyway, if you have only personal experience to go from, and the occasional statement you've read expressing the same sentiment, then claiming "many (most?)" is far from appropriate.  Because you literally have no idea, by your own admission, how many people it actually applies to, and you are leaving yourself wide open to contradiction from other people's personal experiences.  For example, I have had dealings with some of the elderly (meaning post-retirement), and that isn't a sentiment I hear much, if at all.

So I strongly suggest that you be more careful in the future when taking about a subject which is so heavily dependent on your limited personal experience.  In particular, avoiding obvious generalities when you don't have facts to support them,

Yup, agreed.
99
Chatter / Re: Why do old people hate young people?
« Last post by One Above All on June 21, 2017, 09:41:54 AM »
You put stuffin on your block list for "not reading your OP", and pointed to your statement of "many (most?)" as a justification. Then you complained about velkyn also not reading your OP, for the same reason, implying you might use the same 'remedy' on her.

Fair enough. However, I want to point out that velkyn didn't say she had read the OP when that was demonstrably false. I gave stuffin a chance to go back and realize his mistake, just as Emma pointed out she had made two points in one comment, which I later addressed after having (admittedly) only skimmed said comment. He did not. I'm guessing velkyn will.

Yet the term you used was so general as to be useless, making your decision to block stuffin (and whoever else you might choose to block for "not reading your OP") frivolous.

Unless I say "all", there is no reason to assume "all". Even if I accept your claim that "many" is too general, it is certainly different from "all", the latter of which being what stuffin imagined I had claimed. You say it's frivolous to put someone on a block list because they don't show you even the most basic of courtesies when having a conversation, I say it's the same thing we do IRL when someone is talking AT us, rather than WITH is, the former of which being what stuffin did (as far as I'm concerned).

While you have the privilege of putting people on a block list, doing so for frivolous reasons is not smart, just as assigning (negative) karma for frivolous reasons is not smart. That sort of behavior tends to cause priveleges to be revoked if it keeps going on.

It was my less impolite way of telling him to GTFO. Should I have +1'd him instead? Would that be less frivolous?

So I strongly suggest that you be more careful in the future when taking about a subject which is so heavily dependent on your limited personal experience. In particular, avoiding obvious generalities when you don't have facts to support them, and refraining from posturing about things like "didn't read the OP" when it turns out you didn't write it all that clearly in the first place.

And I strongly suggest people read the fucking OPs of threads they're gonna reply to if they want their posts to be on-topic and have any correlation to what someone is saying. You know, actually listen to what the other person is saying instead of making shit up. If you don't understand what someone is saying (which is fair enough in my case; I've never been good at self-expression), there's a simple mechanic our ancestors mastered a long time ago: ask.

It's a strange world we live in where a supposedly unclear statement is somehow seen as worse than someone just flat-out ignoring someone else in a conversation. You may close the thread if you wish. I'm done with it.
100
Chatter / Re: Why do old people hate young people?
« Last post by jaimehlers on June 21, 2017, 09:34:09 AM »
You put stuffin on your block list for "not reading your OP", and pointed to your statement of "many (most?)" as a justification.  Then you complained about velkyn also not reading your OP, for the same reason, implying you might use the same 'remedy' on her.  Yet the term you used was so general as to be useless, making your decision to block stuffin (and whoever else you might choose to block for "not reading your OP") frivolous.

While you have the privilege of putting people on a block list, doing so for frivolous reasons is not smart, just as assigning (negative) karma for frivolous reasons is not smart. That sort of behavior tends to cause priveleges to be revoked if it keeps going on.

Anyway, if you have only personal experience to go from, and the occasional statement you've read expressing the same sentiment, then claiming "many (most?)" is far from appropriate.  Because you literally have no idea, by your own admission, how many people it actually applies to, and you are leaving yourself wide open to contradiction from other people's personal experiences.  For example, I have had dealings with some of the elderly (meaning post-retirement), and that isn't a sentiment I hear much, if at all.

So I strongly suggest that you be more careful in the future when taking about a subject which is so heavily dependent on your limited personal experience.  In particular, avoiding obvious generalities when you don't have facts to support them, and refraining from posturing about things like "didn't read the OP" when it turns out you didn't write it all that clearly in the first place.
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