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Chatter / Re: Increasing secularisation - going full circle
« Last post by eh! on Today at 05:37:48 AM »

And I said; everything that had a beginning (i.e. everything that began to exist...) has a cause.

god is uncaused, therefore god never began to exist, therefore god does not exist.
Chatter / Re: 10 hour fractal falling
« Last post by eh! on Today at 05:32:33 AM »
deepest Mandelbrot zoom

Chatter / 10 hour fractal falling
« Last post by eh! on Today at 05:29:49 AM »

Chatter / Re: Increasing secularisation - going full circle
« Last post by Foxy Freedom on Today at 05:26:57 AM »
And I said; everything that had a beginning (i.e. everything that began to exist...) has a cause.

You are making the mistake of believing that you can understand reality just by thinking about it, although your brain did not evolve for that purpose. If you rely only on thinking and logic to give you all the answers, you will be disappointed, as all the false beliefs around the world show very clearly.

But lets just take your way of thinking and apply it to your sentence like this: if everything in the universe had a beginning, then time had a beginning at that time. Since there was no time before the beginning, the beginning cannot have been caused, because cause implies time. So the universe cannot have been caused.

Anything produced by non causal processes will not have a cause.
General Religious Discussion / Re: Perfect humans
« Last post by Mrjason on Today at 05:17:07 AM »

I have suggested something similar before... maybe he just left. Or maybe when he died on the cross, he really died.

Or maybe he woke up and it was all a dream.
Then what would we be?

Just people.
Unfortunately some of us believe the crazy dream that some ancient guy told his mates.
General Religious Discussion / Re: Judgement
« Last post by OldChurchGuy on Today at 04:29:18 AM »
For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more (Hebrews 8:12)

"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more. (Isaiah 43:25)

Theists - if god forgets our sins and remembers them no more, what's the point of judgement?

Also, if god is all powerful, wouldn't his inability to remember our transgressions demonstrate that he isn't all powerful?


I understand these verses to mean God will not bring up the transgressions or repeatedly hold those transgressions over us.  Put another way, God may very well remember them but will not put us on an eternal guilt trip.  By doing so, it is, to me anyway, forgetting our sins and transgressions.

I have no way of proving this idea, by the way.  For me, it makes sense.


General Religious Discussion / Re: Hey Christians
« Last post by OldChurchGuy on Today at 04:22:24 AM »
You're not getting this. Why?

Here's a different question:

How do we know that Socrates existed?


Actually, I don't know that Socrates existed since, as I recall, Plato wrote about him.  I don't believe Socrates left any documents of his own.  I believe Socrates existed but I don't know that there is irrefutable proof of his existence.

How am I not getting this?

Ever curious,


You believe he existed based on what? Just Plato, or something else? Do you put all your evidence in Plato and faith that he didn't make him up or do you take stock in something other than Plato?


There seems to be a general consensus that Socrates existed.  Much of this is due to Plato although there may be other sources besides Plato.  I have never researched the life and times of Socrates to know for sure. 

As I understand Socrates (presuming he existed) one of his core ideas was that there is precious little we actually know.  There is much we believe and we behave accordingly.  Treating that belief as though it is knowledge. 

Frankly, because I agree with Socrates, I am much more willing to conclude he did exist. 

Going back to the original post, am I correct in thinking what you are really looking for isn't proof, for example, King David existed but proof of God's active participation in his life?  Or that there is proof that Moses parted the Sea of Reeds?  Or that Jesus the Christ really did feed 5,000 with a little bread and a few fish? 


Chatter / Re: Increasing secularisation - going full circle
« Last post by dennis on Today at 04:20:33 AM »
Just spent an hour replying and when I went to hit post I bumped something/mouse and page went back and I lost everything...

Back tomorrow  >:(
You beat me to it Screwtape. Possible slight increase in chance of breast cancer, possible slight decrease in instances of cervical, ovarian, womb and bowel cancer.
General Religious Discussion / Re: Jerimiah 19:19??
« Last post by natlegend on Today at 04:00:17 AM »
I see that no atheist has bothered to read the whole context. Try reading ALL of Jeremiah 19 and then get back to me.

But, you probably won't have to get back to me. You will realize your mistake before that happens.

It's Jeremiah 19:9 by the way. Jeremiah 19 doesn't even have 19 verses. It is futher proof you guys didn't even try to read it. :(

Well I said it was a siege in context earlier, was I wrong?
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