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General Religious Discussion / Re: atheists, is this you - defined by xians;
« Last post by superfly on Yesterday at 04:44:27 PM »
please, i beg you, tell me the name of this forum. i must go there. You can PM me.
General Religious Discussion / atheists, is this you - defined by xians;
« Last post by eh! on Yesterday at 04:39:55 PM »
from my other forum I am told I and all of you are this;

""They are obsessed with hatred, bound and motivated by vengeance and revenge.""

Some atheist psychotics, believe that God does not exist and thus they have no one to fear as they pursue their distorted delusions.

That to succeed in negating God's existence atheists play mental games by over-using psychological defense mechanisms which neutralize high levels of mental pain.

The existence of a Creator is the most provable of all realities and that the proofs are many and sufficient. But accepting God’s reality for many atheists also means accepting corollary realities that are too painful to confront. The mind of many atheists protects itself from these realities by rejecting God’s existence. To accomplish this very difficult feat, atheists rely heavily on the psychological defense mechanisms of denial, rationalization, repression, suppression and displacement.

 Why is accepting God’s existence so painful for many atheists?

Accepting God’s existence means accepting a God that permits worldwide suffering to occur on a daily basis, whether caused by other humans or by natural disasters. To some such a God is too painful to fathom, as it is painful to fathom that one’s parent may have done heinous actions.   

         Many feel betrayed by a God who they feel should have protected them and who instead allowed them to come close to extermination. I am referring to the Jews in particular. (52 % of Jews are either atheists or agnostics).

        Some are afraid of God -- the God of the Bible in particular. They have read and heard terrifying descriptions of hell, and they are horrified that they may be deserving of it, because of their sinful ways. Rather than mend their ways, they block out God’s reality -- and consequently hell.

         Some are angry with God by association. They are upset with former fellow believers who may have hurt them. They may be angry at a minister, or a priest who may have hurt or betrayed them. They may also be angry at the hypocrisy of many religious people and transfer their anger at God for allowing it all. They finally punish Him for allowing their pain and disappointment and they do so by negating His existence.

DENIAL: This mechanism is very simple: one simply denies reality and does so with intensity and persistence. There are people who are told by doctors daily that they have a terminal illness. Their way of coping is to deny that it could be true. Atheists do the same: they intensely and persistently deny that God could exist. They block out the possibility and fight it with all their might.

RATIONALIZATIONS:  This is a favorite mechanism of atheists. It is simply the reliance on logical-sounding but false reasons to negate reality. Atheists will offer countless “logical-sounding” reasons why God does not exist, or why they cannot accept the existence of God. They are very creative at doing so, and they specialize in using pedantic language to sound convincing to others and to themselves.  They fool themselves that they are of superior intelligence and that they must be correct in their conclusions. In reality, they are simply rationalizers.

REPRESSION: This mechanism entails forcing painful material into the sub-conscious unconsciously. The person who uses this mechanism is not aware of it. All of existence yells out, "design." Every little detail in nature offers evidence of the Artist’s touch. One only has to stop, observe and see that we are not surrounded by the grotesque, but by beauty, unity and harmony. The atheist mind will not stop and observe and see the connection. If they do stop to look, they will acknowledge the art -- but not the artist.

SUPPRESSION: Suppression is similar to repression, but with one exception: it is conscious.  Science is continually offering evidence of intricacy and brilliance on the Creator’s part. The concept of design is daily being reinforced by all the sciences. Accepting the evidence for former atheist, Anthony Flew, may have been painful at first, but he finally accepted the glaring reality. Most atheists will not. They will consciously “reject” the evidence,  without any fair and sufficient analysis.

DISPLACEMENT: This mechanism has to do with transferring feelings from one deserving object to another undeserving one. As explained above, many believers are angry and hurt, because of abuse or mistreatment by religious people or religious leaders. In time, they transfer their anger to God who allowed the events that caused their pain to take place. The end result of this mechanism is to abolish what they see as the ultimate source of their pain: God.

     Having an awareness of these and other defense mechanism is critical in maintaining a level of mental health and of emotional maturity. Over-relying on them to cope with life and specific pains in life can lead to disjointed thinking and emotional immaturity. It is crucial that one develops an awareness of the mind’s proclivity to neutralize pain by relying on these defense mechanisms. It is essential, though, that we recognize that reality must be confronted -- be it painful or not -- and that the causes of the pain must be faced head on, in a courageous, honest and mature way.

Neurological research indicates that a particular part of the brain is connected to religious experiences. Perhaps atheists are the product of a genetic deficiency or disorder – and if so, one can only wonder what  else is wrong with them. After all, most atheists seem to suffer from delusions of grandeur, convinced that they hold the keys to humanity’s march toward utopia. They are also quite happy to embrace programs to “improve” humanity to suit their own purposes – hardly a coincidence, one would have to suggest, that the most repressive regimes of recent days have all been formulated along atheistic, humanist principles. One can only hope that the possible link between atheism and mental illness is examined honestly before countless others suffer needlessly.

Seek help for you mental illness atheists
Religion In The News / ISIS
« Last post by shnozzola on Yesterday at 04:35:06 PM »
       While we argue whether or not evolution or god or racism exits, ISIS has beheaded an American journalist.  Of course people blame President Obama for pulling out of Iraq. But I believe we are missing the bigger picture of where this part of the world could be headed.   Lebanon, the Saudis, Yemen - "fairly" quiet.  Syria is becoming a basket case, Iran is not changing, Egypt is fighting through problems, Turkey quiet, right there is Libya and Sudan, to the north Ukraine.  And of course Israel sits in the middle.

        No matter what the US, or Britain, Germany - the west - do, the people in these surrounding countries, the governments, are right there beside this caliphate - extreme Islam, sort of a Nazi like view, that some may begin to look up to.  Scary time right now how many may either be with, or too afraid of, ISIS -  not doing anything to stop a well armed angry movement convinced they know what is correct, and looking to and at a weary US.   This extreme Islam is a long, long, term problem for the world.  For example, if I was a Somalia citizen, I would be ready for any group to come in and restore an order.

I hope this article on multilateralism is correct.
With all due respect, Lukvance, when I read the reasons given on that website, you know what the first thing that popped into my head was?  "Mountain climbers".  If you ask a mountain climber why they go to climb a mountain, they'll give you various different reasons, but ultimately, the most basic reason is because they want to do it, and succeeding at something you want to do (especially if it's difficult) is a very enjoyable experience.  I don't see people who do something out of faith as being any different than that.  Whatever reasons they give, the basic reason is because they want to do it, and succeeding in it is enjoyable.
General Religious Discussion / Re: how would you counter this, literalist post.
« Last post by JeffPT on Yesterday at 04:02:08 PM »
I'd like you to pause on this for a while:

That is quite the dedication someone put into finding out God's killings. What if that effort was used to feed the starving instead? probably be a better use of time.

I'm not dodging by any means, just pointing out that it seems odd for someone who thinks God is fictional to analyze it to that extent.

Now, why did God kill that many people? Because He felt they were deserving of it because they refused to obey His commands. If God allowed those people to live, they would have slaughtered the believers. Of course, we can not do that at all. We do not have that authority. Only God does.

God is perfect. Therefore, anything He does is perfect, QED.
YOU may think it's wrong, but you are not perfect, so how can you know? it's quite a conundrum.

Its not a conundrum at all.  You're just incorrect.  You're simply factually incorrect about the existence of God and about his perfection.  It's only a conundrum for someone who thinks this magical character exists. 

God is not real.  And thus, he's not perfect.  We only play this little 'if God were real' game with you because we're trying to show you how ridiculous it is from the inside.  The discussions on this website would go nowhere if all we said was 'no, God isn't real, end of story', even though it really does all come down to that. 

The reason that humanity is responsible for feeding the poor isn't that God won't do it; it's that God isn't REAL.  Would a fake God feed the hungry?  No, it wouldn't.  The God that you believe is real, and one that does not exist have this (as well as everything else) in common.  Some of us question the sanity of someone who chooses to think God perfect when he lets even 1 child die from cancer, starvation, AIDS, let alone the thousands and thousands that die.  Or of  someone who says something like you said above which is tantamount to saying 'all those people who God killed had it coming to them because they didn't do what he told them to do'.  Fuck that.  That's sick.  It's highly immoral and I wonder seriously why you can't see that.  Are you so blinded by the mantra 'God is perfect, God is perfect, God is perfect' playing over and over inside your head that you can't use your own judgement and ask yourself 'is God perfect?  Do I really think he's perfect?  Would a perfect God with omnipotent power not find another way around killing all of them?' 'What would perfect look like to me?'

Are you judging God as perfect through observation of reality, or are you just repeating the mantra that's been drilled into your head for so much of your life?   

So, I’m curious, why would believing in this god’s plan make someone right, but not believing in this god’s plan make that same person wrong?  Could it be that this is one of the primary rules designed by religion to keep people believing?  Those who disobey your god and the plan are “evil”!  They will burn in hell with Satan because Satan also had the audacity to question god’s plan!  Very convenient.
You know that this is not what the Catholic Church teaches, right?
Hmm, really?  I didn’t realize the Catholic Church stopped teaching people to follow their god and what god commands.  You know, stuff like not choosing to follow “God” will result in evil.
Jesus/God left us only 2 commandments. Neither of them was "believe in me or go to hell". Both of them said "you shall love". I put back your original quote because I felt that the reply you gave me was not on the same subject/related to the question I asked.

Yet, I did not ever say that the commandment was “believe in me or go to hell” although I might as well have.  Perhaps you can point out where I said that?  Also, where did I say that was a commandment of “Jesus/God”?  I said “designed by religion” for “teaching people to follow THEIR god” and what THEIR god commands.

Also, apparently you don’t know your own professed religion. 

Quote from: Mark 9:43-48
And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.  It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.  And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off.  It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.  And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out.  It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.

Quote from: Matthew 25:31-46
When the son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious thrown.  Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.  And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.  Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.  For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’  Then the righteous will answer him, saying ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?  And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?  And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?  And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.  For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’  Then they also answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?  And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?  And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?  Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Quote from: Matthew 13:47-50
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind.  When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad.  So it will be at the end of the age.  The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace.  In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Quote from: Peter 2:1-10
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who brought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.  And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed.  And in their greed they will exploit you with false words.  Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, make them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard);  then punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.

Quote from: Jude 1:5-7
Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.  And the angles who did not stay within their own position of authority but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexually immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Quote from: John 5:17-20
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ.  He is the true God and eternal life.

Quote from: John 3:16-21
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.  And this is the judgment:  the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.  For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.  But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.

I rest my case.

Oh by the way, I’m not going to answer your original question, my reply was exactly on point, you just don’t like that I’m right.  The reason I didn’t answer your question is because it is one of your oft used logical fallacies called a ‘Loaded question’.  Your question contains a false premise, namely, that the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that not following Jesus or God will lead to hell.

First you say “God can and won’t” but then you say “it would create a chain reaction that would destroy our universe” SO if healing amputees would destroy the universe then obviously your god can not heal amputees without destroying the universe.  You’ve just made it so your god can’t while claiming that he won’t.  That’s right, you’ve just described an incompetent god who doesn’t give a shit.  That sounds about par for the course for the Catholic god, or any god for that matter.
Have you hear of the omnipotence paradox? :
Come back to me afterwards about contradicting myself when it comes to omnipotence.

LOL.  Yes, I’ve heard of the omnipotence paradox, it is exactly that which makes an omnipotent god impossible.  Have you ever heard of the word paradox?  :

Come back to me afterwards when you realize that you contradicted yourself.

You may also want to work on your reading and writing comprehension.
Then you can't judge your god as "loving" either. Just sayin'

 :o Now that seems very sneaky......

Need time to ponder this one. Interesting.
Anyway, how can so many people have been wrong?  Very easily.  Most people, through most of history, got their information from word-of-mouth.  And word-of-mouth is very inefficient and error-prone (the telephone game, which has people communicating information via word-of-mouth one by one, is a great example of this).  So the question isn't how so many people could have gotten it wrong, but how anyone could have managed to get it right in the first place.

Once you understand that, and understand the fact that religious beliefs ultimately predated writing, it's very easy to understand just how so many believers could have gotten it wrong, and still get it wrong.
General Religious Discussion / Re: how would you counter this, literalist post.
« Last post by Dante on Yesterday at 03:50:30 PM »
It's certainly sad that they died, but God felt it was the right thing to do. Am I in a position to judge God? I don't think I am.

Then you can't judge your god as "loving" either. Just sayin'

Let's think about it, though.

To you, you just see peace loving people who weren't doing anything wrong.
God sees fornicators, liars, adulterers, sodomites, cheaters, disobedient, mocking, ignoring, obsessed with material wealth, basically hedonism.

You really think God should just let it all go and just let everyone do whatever they want, no matter what it is? Does anybody respect a pushover like that? I wouldn't.

It's certainly sad that they died, but God felt it was the right thing to do. Am I in a position to judge God? I don't think I am.
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