« Last post by natlegend on Yesterday at 08:10:13 PM »
How do YOU explain evil?
(Why does it exist? What is it? Etc..)
We are not allowed to sermonise, so that makes the answer hard to provide. But here is my exegesis of the passage:
Now?the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the?Lord?God had made.
The serpent was not a snake. Man did not fear the snake. But the crafty creation was there for a purpose.
The serpent wasn't a snake? Then what was it?
The serpent found Eve at the tree, so the creation of God (serpent) did not take Eve there, she was already contemplating the tree. [/b]
Throughout the passage, God is referred to as The Lord (Yahweh = Creator) God (Elohim = Father)
Eve was already contemplating eating from the tree? Where in your book does it say that? Maybe Eve was just hanging around enjoying the perfect shade under this perfect tree. This is your own interpretation, and as per usual, it ignores what the bible actually says.
He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You1?shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”?2?And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden,?3?but God said,?‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’”
The deception the serpent introduced was to question whether Eve actually heard and understood correctly. The serpent tested the explicitness of the message.
Why was the forbidden thing:
(a) A piece of fruit? And (b) Something mankind had to DO
God could have forbidden something else - like you are not allowed to dig over there, or you are not allowed to sleep with your head facing east. But God made it something that (i) you could not accidentally stumble upon and something where you actually had to think about it, then reach out to it and then bring it to you and then consume it and make it part of yourself.
The prohibition was explicit and the act of breaking that prohibition had to be deliberate.
The committing of a sin requires us to exercise our free will
I know you probably don't believe in free will, but there you go...
Whether or not picking a piece of fruit is made a worse act because it is something you have to DO is irrelevant. And my understanding of free will is that it gives you the ability to chose to do right or wrong. See the problem? Right now, Eve didn't have free will because she didn't know right from wrong.
?4?But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.?5?For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
So unlike YAWEH, the serpent tells the truth. Interesting.
The promise of the temptation was built in an outright denial of what God wants. There was no grey areas here.
Then whose fault was it? You can't blame A&E, they were made that way. It can't have been YAWEH, he's perfect and can do no wrong. It must have been the serpent's fault. But wait, wasn't he created by ...YAWEH... and was thus also made that way?
The temptation here was not that our physical hunger will be stilled and that we could eat something nice, it was about what the fruit would do for us - and that was to make us equal or more like God! The temptation we yielded to is arrogance - a lack of humility> Today, seeking answers in science and putting our faith in our own institutions is exactly the sin that we have always been guilty of.
We were created one way (man) and desire to be another (god).
Then YAWEH screwed up. His creation, even before the fall, was flawed. Humans were flawed before they sinned. If I make a bicycle and give it only one wheel, am I not the one responsible for when it doesn't work properly?
7?Then the eyes of both were opened,?and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.
After we committed the sin, the sin is revealed. We now understand sin. We now know God was right and we were wrong. We have the capacity to recognise sin.
Not arguing this bit. I'm arguing about what happened before A&E wised up.
8?And they heard the sound of the?Lord?God walking in the garden in the ...snip...
... YAWEH busts A&E, lists their forever punishments, boots them out, yadda yadda yadda. Not relevant.
Whilst there is an element of punishment we suffer, because of our sin, God also banishes us so that we can't continue to be tempted.
Dennis, I'm not talking about what happened after A&E 'did the dirty', I'm asking why was there evil in the world in the first place? Remember? The OP?
1. Why were A&E not told about good and evil/right and wrong? (Interestingly, I have heard Christians say that knowing right from wrong is what makes humans better than animals - well that's obviously not what Yaweh originally intended)
2. Would Yaweh have punished a 'pre-fruit' A&E if they had unknowingly done something 'wrong'?
3. Indeed, disobeying Yaweh and eating from the tree was something that A&E did 'wrong', and yet having no prior knowledge of what is 'wrong', A&E are still punished.
4. Why was it necessary to have the existence of good and evil, if presumably no part of Yaweh's creation was going to experience it?
Questions 1 and 4 interest me mostly (yes I agree, questions 2 and 3 are the same thing). Yet here we are, and no one has even taken a real stab at it.