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Sexuality, Reproduction, & Abortion / Re: Butt hole is for shitting out of.
« Last post by Nam on Yesterday at 02:55:29 PM »
I miss morphine. They took it away from me. Bastards.

General Religious Discussion / Re: What if ALL religions are right?
« Last post by Nick on Yesterday at 02:54:19 PM »
Damn, I'm glad Nam was not my grammar teacher.
General Religious Discussion / Re: What if ALL religions are right?
« Last post by Nam on Yesterday at 02:53:13 PM »
Thanks Nam,

I really did not expect feedback.

As I have worked my whole life in IT I have never, before now, attempted any kind of writing which could be interpreted as poetry.

Last night, I could not sleep with lots personal things going in my life and thus I penned this post in my tiredness to try and distract myself from my personal reality.

I appreciate your comments and will take on-board your subtle (un-Nam like) opinion that I should not give up the day job.

I used to say this all the time to people, and it pissed them off (makes me wonder why I stopped saying it?):

"Anyone can write a poem. It takes skill to write poetry."

I mainly write poems but I've been told I'm a pretty good critiquer.

Evolution & Creationism / Re: Happy 6,028th Birthday Earth!
« Last post by Nick on Yesterday at 02:52:43 PM »
What do you get a planet that has everything?
Sexuality, Reproduction, & Abortion / Re: Prostitution
« Last post by Nick on Yesterday at 02:51:52 PM »
I don't think the church wants you to jack off either.  You will go blind.
Chatter / Re: your life on earth
« Last post by Nick on Yesterday at 02:50:49 PM »
Will there be a test?
General Religious Discussion / Re: Interesting person I met at church
« Last post by Nick on Yesterday at 02:50:01 PM »
And I bet he is for cutting  food stamps and welfare.  You know to the 47%ters who leach off the gov/tax payers.
General Religious Discussion / Re: Interesting person I met at church
« Last post by Dante on Yesterday at 02:41:55 PM »
Dante I live in Canada.   Canada is not really a religious country unlike US.
So far all of the highly successful people I have seen here tend not to go to Church.

Interesting. However, don't confuse "not going to church" with "not being Christian". In the US, while there are a high number of people that attend churches, there are plenty that do not and still claim to be of the Christian religion.

I'm not saying you're wrong about ambitious Canadians. But, you would be wrong if you said this about US citizens, I'm pretty sure.
Well, I wonder. What would be the impetus to improve paradise? Where would the dissatisfaction come from that would inspire the sheeple to do anything but run around naked and eat oranges. First of all, that what most people would do today if they had a choice, and secondly, you have to realize that non-curious folks aren't likely to dream up iPods. Or even primitive stone knives.

Dissatisfaction is not the only reason people are creative.  People are creative because people like to create.  True some inventions would be unnecessary, like WMDs, but that's okay?  We could still create other things you know.  We could create with a view towards something other than mere survival.

Civilization arose out of farming, something that wouldn't be needed in paradise

Adam and Eve were to tend the garden.  That is already a form of farming.

It is conflict that creates the need to protect the group and it is power-seeking that caused civilizations to arise.

Okay, but without that we could turn our attention to other things beyond mere survival.  That is liberating, not a handicap.

Living in a paradise with perfect weather, there would be no need not only for clothes, but for shoes or anything else that might protect one from the environment.

And is this somehow a handicap?

Without work to do, there would be no need for cities.

This is not true.  Jehovah gave them work to do, tend the garden.  Now I realize that's very simplistic to us, but it was fitting for the time it was given.   Even today Christians are given work to do, make disciples.  There is no reason to think that we would run out of beneficial work to do.  The scriptures speak about planting vinyards and building houses in reference to the future paradise.  Nowhere does it paint a picture of inactivity in paradise.  Humans, generally speaking, like to work and gain satisfaction from it.  This too is part of God's personality.  Do you think Jehovah would actualy stifle that?

If people didn't have to do the daily grind just to survive, what could be accomplished?  And how much talent is lost simply because of economics and governmental oppression?  How much innovation is lost becuase of those same things.  How many things can we create that are just too expensive to be practical?  Why is it that way?  Must it be that way?  I mean do you think people become scientists because of necessity or because they like science?  Do we explore space because we are dissatisfied with the earth?  Do we explore nature because of dissatisfaction or fascination?  Was television created because of dissatisfaction?  Some things are created because of necessity, but that is not the only reason.  We do it because we can and we want to, the same reason people climb mountains.  Were mountain climbing tools created because people were dissatisfied with low altitudes?

Humans would simply not have any reason to do any of those things because the complete lack of conflict

So this is simply not true.  Conflict is not required for invention.

You are looking at the situation from a post-eden POV. One where you know good and bad, you know what you like and what you dislike, you know what you want and what you don't want. But if the tree that supposedly gave humans knowledge of conflicting thoughts and deeds was never touched, humans would simply know nothing about anything other than their already perfect state, and hence wouldn't be inspired to improve their situation, because they would have no way of imagining how to make things better. They would be living in paradise already. How do you improve on that. Especially when you are ignorant of anything but the only perfection you've ever known.

But you also have the presupposition that God was never going to provide any education and no other purpose for us.  I don't share that presupposition and see not scriptural reason to think that.  What would make paradise better?  How about the ability for anyone to explore it all?  The ability to know people on the other side of the planet?  Entertainment?  You are really limiting your imagination.  Life does not need to be reduced to mere survival.  Men have caused that, not God.  Paradise is a very good starting point.  We would not have no inventions, we would have different inventions and that's okay.

I contend that without the fall, whoever existed now, be it only Adam and Eve or billions of people, they would still be running around naked in eden, blissfully unaware of both war and music, blissfully unaware of work and politics, unaware of education, and ignorant of most anything but the simple life they would be living. In a world where nobody had ever even stubbed a toe, the human need to make things better would never be activated.

I don't share your opinion.  No politics and war sure.  Would you really miss these things?  I really don't understand why we wouldn't have art.  He did not just create us so we can be bored for all eternity.  What sort of paradise is that?

So you sort of need to agree with me. When we don't know what is good and what is evil, we can't make choices, we can't act, we can't make decisions, we can't be aware of any conflicts, because we know nothing.

No that is not true.  With divine insight we could make better choices.  And who cares if there's no conflict?  Do you think war is good?  Do you think we must murder each other to give ourselves something to do?  Do you think we have to have something bad to react to or we just won't do anything?  Come on.

Hey, maybe you know, Jst. If the A&E story is true, is there any way I can send them a thank you card?

They are dead.  And Adam, at least, will remain that way.  His morality didn't work out for his lasting benefit.  He grew old and died because sin causes death.
General Religious Discussion / Re: Interesting person I met at church
« Last post by eh! on Yesterday at 02:29:39 PM »
I think jews in Israel can avoid mandatory & dangerous military service with their faith as an excuse.

i have heard some of those that do serve complain bitterly that these "free-loaders" can use their faith to get out of it while many others have to fight and die.
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