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81
I sharpened my knife and did a blog post on this nonsense.   :)
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General Religious Discussion / Re: No True Scotsman
« Last post by YRM_DM on May 26, 2017, 04:20:02 PM »
So... God picked YOU, and GRACED YOU... and therefore, you can "help" the homeless man, but, there's this underlying thing that his or her own choices put them there, rather than, say, "Mental illness."  Or maybe they went bankrupt paying medical bills on their dying wife?   Who knows?

I think you touched on a really good point here.  Since believers are in an "us against the world" mental state, thinking that everyone is doomed that doesn't share their beliefs, they're going to see things, in general, in black and white.  Eternity in heaven or eternity burning in hell.  You're either a pure thinker sexually, and are married and have sex with no one else, or you're a sexual deviant.  There is no middle ground.  So in your example of the homeless guy, it fits the pattern.  Either you were picked by God and that's why you're doing well in life, or it's all your fault, and you lost everything.  You nailed it YRM_DM.  When it gets interesting is, like you say, when you're challenged in life and have your "Job" moment.

I am absolutely ashamed to admit this... but, when I was younger and I was firmly faithful, I was at a funeral for a man that I really admired.  He was a pastor, he left a widow and kids.  I felt terrible about the whole thing but, in my mind, I was working to try to figure out how God was going to use this for the greater good.   We'd just had some sermon recently about putting on the armor of God and I was trying to put it on.

So I said to one of the other pastors, who was great friends with the one who was killed, something along the lines of "Job" and "suffering" and that God would use this for the greater good in some way.  I was trying to show my trust that God would turn this event on it's ear and make the best of it.   It's not anything worse than other people were saying around me, but, the truth is, I was trying really hard to bolster my faith, and to bolster the pastor's faith, and to defend God.   My mind at that moment wasn't on the kids (who I really liked and my wife and I had actually baby-sat for)... my mind was on trying to say or do something to defend God and bolster my own faith.

At a funeral for a friend, my mind should have been on the loss and suffering that his family felt, but, I was one of those hard-core believing jerks who put faith above the real hurt of actual human beings who actually exist.

NOTE:  As far as I know, the surviving pastor quit that church and it had complete turnover of membership.  There was no "greater good" that came from it... the church just died.

But I'm far from the only believer who is guilty of this... I've had it thrown back in my face in my own times of suffering, which was a good lesson for me.   I don't know why I had to learn that the hard way, but, it was part of my growth process towards realizing how harmful faith can be, and how selfish religion can make a person.

Look at JST... most likely, he's a decent guy who wants to do good things... but with zero evidence, he sits here defending God...  out of one side of his mouth, he describes Jesus and what Jesus wants and what he's like, and out of the other side of his mouth, he's talked about us not being in a position to pass judgment on God or Jesus, because they have mysterious methods and know things that we don't know.

JST constantly judges Jehovah, Jesus, God... he just judges them perfect.   He judges them "above reproach".   Instead of questioning, he's judging them to be beyond question... but doesn't prove that.

I find that I've learned a little bit more about some of you fellow atheists as human beings than I've learned about the believers.   I know certain posters who are gay, or who came from religious backgrounds, or who have gay children, or who are swingers, or who do a lot of charitable work, or who work in science, or who came from catholic backgrounds.  I know people who are here because some hurt or harm lead them to a logical re-examination of their faith.  I know more about your lives than I know about the lives of believers or that they know about our lives... because they're here to defend God, not to make friends or get to know us.

In general, since I realized my faith was a delusion, years ago, I've been more tolerant, more accepting, more concerned with getting to know people...   when I was a believer, I wanted to be "a good believer".   Now I'm just a flawed person who tries my best.

Old Church Guy is the one believer who gets it right and at least makes an effort to show that he really cares about the way people feel when he's responding to them.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: No True Scotsman
« Last post by wheels5894 on May 26, 2017, 01:00:11 PM »
I think this discussion is at an end. JST had dodged all the important remarks he can't answer, and now we are left with an authoritative banality, with nothing to comment on, and no basis for empirical evidence.


Sadly, I think you are right. The important questions -


1. What is right belief for a True Christian?
2. How should a True Christian act?


remain unanswered and it still seems that atheists might get into heaven based on our actions - even if we don't want to! Sadly I think that is a far as it is  likely to go,
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General Religious Discussion / Re: No True Scotsman
« Last post by Jag on May 26, 2017, 10:51:50 AM »
I think this discussion is at an end. JST had dodged all the important remarks he can't answer, and now we are left with an authoritative banality, with nothing to comment on, and no basis for empirical evidence.
The perfect description of every discussion we ever have with jst.
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There was a kind of consistency to the comments.

A few said "Jeez, satire, OBS. How can you not see that?" Well, because the writing is really really bad, making your conclusion of "satire, duh" a bit hard to parse, and potentially far too generous and forgiving of bullshitty crapola disguised as an opinion worth noting.

Some said "Nice job making Catholics look like assholes, and giving young people even more reason to think so. Thanks jerk." These seemed to be coming from mostly theists.

A couple others said "Ooh, way to sock it to those atheists, you're so smart and clever and articulate and relevant. We LOOOOVES you!" I got nuthin', anyone who thinks that was an example of quality writing is beyond help.

The rest were variations on "wow, bad form" in one way or another. The author has more work posted there, I can't decide of I should read further to get a feel for the kind of crap they will publish, or just throw up a little and move on.

I was pleased to see that he got very little in the way of positive feedback.
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Chatter / Re: Ethnic food rights and cultural appropriation.
« Last post by Jag on May 26, 2017, 10:34:26 AM »
Yes, it's ridiculous.

Yes, it's a shitty thing to happen to small business owners.

Said business owners presumably knew the attitude of the locals in the city where they opened their business.

Portland is one of the most bizarrely weird and wonderful places I've visited in the States and this isn't all that surprising given that.

One incident is not a threat to KFC. Not even to KFC's in Oregon.
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One thing which seems apparent from the results - Quist's strategy (of putting himself forward as someone who would work with Republicans and of basically ignoring Trump) wasn't very effective.  Especially given that Gianforte wedded himself to Trump in this election.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: No True Scotsman
« Last post by Add Homonym on May 26, 2017, 10:01:58 AM »
I think this discussion is at an end. JST had dodged all the important remarks he can't answer, and now we are left with an authoritative banality, with nothing to comment on, and no basis for empirical evidence.
89
definitely a trend for conservatives to want to be Sturmabteilung (aka the Brownshirts)
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Quote from: Karen "I'm Clearly a Horrible Stupid Bitch and Proud of It" Screnar
"We've watched how the press is one-sided. Excuse me, that's how I feel.
She says to the reporter who in turn publicly reports her views.
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