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General Religious Discussion / Re: What is the Most Important Verse in the Bible?
« Last post by Jag on Yesterday at 10:03:27 AM »
^ I wonder that as well.
Chatter / exodus 22:17 (Hebrew] 22:18 (OT)
« Last post by Steve on Yesterday at 09:58:27 AM »
Does anybody here know of any other book written before the bible that commands the death of witches. Is the bible the only one. for instance do the vedas.
wonder how Christians/theists vs Athiests/secular humanists would fare under milgrim experiment conditions.
General Religious Discussion / Re: Noah's Island???
« Last post by epidemic on Yesterday at 09:43:26 AM »
  Of course, one does wonder how Noah managed to make it to Madagascar to pick up the animals there, and, of course, one does also wonder how he got them back to Madagascar.

What you do, is start with a really high sea level, and Noah residing on the top of a mountain, so he's on an Island. On that island, there are a few species of hog and goat. Noah moves the 10 animals into his boat, and then it rains a few more metres, and the top of the mountain is covered.

Then, the sea level drops 10000 metres, and exposes all the land bridges, so the goats and hogs can walk across to Australia, in the ensuing 1000 years. Then the water goes up again, to close all the land bridges off. The goats then evolve in to 100 species of Wallaby and Kangaroo in the next 6000 years. They are not discovered until Captain Cook landed in 1770. During this time, aboriginals faced many evolutions of megafauna, such as the 2000kg Diprotodon.

I am sorry but your timeline may be a bit off.   They can not evolve over the next 6000 years.   They had to complete the evolution in a short time, because there are historical examples of all life forms in art, cave paintings, archeological digs going way back.   So assuming that the flood happened you probably have to complete the rapid morphological changes of 2 of each kind to all forms of life in perhaps a 100 to 1000 years.  I think the kent hovind model needs some work as well because near as I can tell predators would be killing off hundreds of kinds per year just to feed their population growth. 

As the deer spawn elk babies the wolfs would probably be eating off much of the new species and old kinds at an insane rate.  6 to 12 wolf like puppies grow to adulthood in one year Eating approximately 730 kinds per year but that is assuming they had no babies.  With puppies reaching adulthood in a year the rate quickly rises to 4380 kills per year  of between 3 and 5 pounds each (assuming 12 pups required to quickly repopulate the earth) .   A lion eats something on the order of 11-15 deer class kinds per year.   So a pair of lions will eat 26 kinds in the first year before they can complete a breeding cycle. 

numbers above are for fun.   I really did not think of them really hard.   they are just to show that 2 of each kind might cause serious problems with extinctions of kinds implying that Kent Hovind may need to rethink the number of "KINDS" the ark migh thave had to accommodate.
General Religious Discussion / Re: God the Pervert
« Last post by nogodsforme on Yesterday at 09:40:24 AM »
^^^Yep. Being smart doesn't mean we can't screw it all up. And often, we do not even know we are screwing things up until it is too late.

Remember, smoking was supposed to be good for you back in the 20's and 30's. And in the 60's we thought that disposable everything was the way of the future; just use it once and throw it away! Our dishes, clothes, everything would be made of paper, plastic and foil=disposable. I remember reading about the disposable homes of the 21st century future, (ie now) where everything inside and out would be thrown away. &)

The fossil fuels and high technology that have made modern life so comfortable and awesome may cause the next dinosaur-type extinction event-- only the dominant species to fall will be us this time! :o

How will the fossil fuels and high technology do that should it happen Nogods? :(

By screwing up the climate so badly that we can no longer produce enough food, due to droughts and floods and sea water infiltrating fresh water sources, for one.  :(
General Religious Discussion / Re: Noah's Island???
« Last post by nogodsforme on Yesterday at 09:38:02 AM »
Yep. Two words disprove Noah. Indigenous and endemic.

You just cannot get the diversity and distribution of species, plant, animal and insect, in less than 10,000 years, all starting from one spot in the Middle East. That would make evolution faster and far more dramatic than anything Darwin ever dreamed of. Not to mention the question of why you needed all those species in the first place.

And nobody noticed when their goats started giving birth to llamas and kangaroos?  ;D
General Religious Discussion / Re: What is the Most Important Verse in the Bible?
« Last post by Jag on Yesterday at 09:28:43 AM »
The question of obedience to authority has been answered, quite thoroughly and with unpleasant implications.

People DO obey those they perceive as being "in charge", or as having some sort of authority in a given situation. Stanley Milgram demonstrated this back in the 60's, and variations on this experiment say it's was not a fluke.
An overview of the experiments and results
Wiki with links to details
One more, just because

From the third link, "Why is it so many people obey when they feel coerced? Social psychologist Stanley Milgram researched the effect of authority on obedience. He concluded people obey either out of fear or out of a desire to appear cooperative--even when acting against their own better judgment and desires. Milgram's classic yet controversial[1] experiment illustrates people's reluctance to confront those who abuse power."

What could possibly be more coercive than eternal damnation?

And, tying this back to the thread topic, this has implications for the Golden Rule as well. It turns out that people do onto others as the highest apparent authority tells them to do.


We know this is true - think any genocide or war ever - yet we all want to insist that under the same circumstances WE would resist and do the right thing. Then some damn social scientist comes along and demonstrates that maybe, just maybe, being conditioned to unthinkingly obey perceived authority is a BAD FREAKING IDEA.

It explains why jst and skep can say the things they say and not be able to grasp why we find some of those things horrifying. They're simply obeying the highest available authority, as they perceive it.
 1. Aside - Controversial does not mean invalid, the controversy was due to the stress on the subjects. The original experiment would not be permitted today.
Religion & Society / Re: Why I support Donald Trump for President
« Last post by jaimehlers on Yesterday at 09:21:09 AM »
You mentioned a number of things which the USA is ranked high in.  I suspect the list of things where it's in the top five or ten would be much longer.  Plus, I live in a state which ranks near the bottom compared to other states, meaning that those other states are going to be better.  And even so, I would still give Oklahoma a 'good' rating, despite it being one of the ten most miserable states to live in[1].  If Oklahoma were a country, it would still be between the 60% and 80% marks in terms of quality of life.

In any case, I would also give most European countries, as well as Australia and Japan, a "very good" rating.  This isn't about rating which of those it would be best to live in, after all.
Like a child does not understand why their parents take it for vaccinations that hurt, but will save their life. 1)No parent who loves their child would choose a painful treatment if there were other non-painful ones that would do the job. 2) If the loving parent could explain to the baby why the painful shot had to be given in a way that they could understand, wouldn't they do that?

So, god is unable to explain why he inflicts suffering, unwilling to explain why he inflicts suffering, or he just does not give a damn what we think. Or someone else, like Satan, is in charge of our suffering and god can't or won't do anything about it. Or he is waiting for the perfect time to act, when, well you can fill in whatever you want from religious belief X.

Or he does not exist, and suffering is just part of the way life is.

There is always a problem with parent analogy.   Taking a kid for vaccination is painful and the kid does not understand, but the parent understands the good.  The analogy falls apart when you have the parent fill a syringe with Acid and injects him with it because the kid did not believe him when he said tadpoles become frogs.

This is also done in secret away from other children so they do not learn to believe dad under pain of death.  Or worse yet,  a group of strangers walk up the child and say check out that little funny looking black fish, it will become a frog one day with legs and a big mouth and hop across the land.  The kid dubious of the claim says that he does not believe it, and asks them to show him.   The strangers refuse and call dad up on the phone, when the kid gets home his dad whisks him away to the back room and torturously murders the child.
Religion & Society / Re: Why I support Donald Trump for President
« Last post by One Above All on Yesterday at 08:51:57 AM »
The hype that surrounds America is kind of like the hype that surrounds an unreleased video game; the reality can never measure up.

Funny thing is, the hype only comes from within the USA, near as I can tell.

However, America is, nonetheless, a very good country on the whole.

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