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The scriptures also fortold an apostasy, and a restoration in the latter days.

Wow. These scriptures that were written by ancient men forbade any possible future deviation from these ancient scribblings. Wow.

How original.

These "scriptures" would hold more credibility if they were simultaneously dropped all over the earth. If conquering Europeans arrived on the shores of America, and found that the native people already possessed these same "God-given scriptures", then that would render these scriptures more credible.

But no. The various versions of the Bible historically show all of the tell-tale signs of teachings that were originated by a certain human population and spread and evovled by natural processes.

Reality would fit better with the Bible if the stories of the Bible only spoke of the natural spreading of messages of a God who purposely always remained hidden.[1]

But no. Instead you have a God who haggles with Abraham, takes part in a public fire-lighting competition against Baal, sends an Angel to talk to Mary(mother of Jesus) in person, and knocks Saul of his horse on his road to Damascus. However, instead of dropping Bibles from the sky upon peoples of the Amazon, God uses a method that works just as well as if He never existed.

Jehovah's Witness = Dumbfuck

 1. But. of course, even though it would fit better with reality, it would not fit better than the more logical hypotheses of how the Bible came to be.
General Religious Discussion / Re: Will a Christian explain freewill to me
« Last post by natlegend on Yesterday at 05:28:09 PM »
Yaweh is having a little trouble with A&E in the garden. As Yaweh sorts out A&E he already knows that he is going to murder every person in the planet by drowning. Why does he bother going through the motions until then? Stupid god.
Evolution & Creationism / Abiogenesis and probability?
« Last post by Spinner198 on Yesterday at 05:28:07 PM »
How do evolutionists tackle the problem of abiogenesis? The formation of the original proteins, by only left handed amino acids, with only the relatively few types of amino acids used in life? What was the original environment like that allowed this formation to even happen, as proteins without the protection of a cell membrane would disintegrate within water or an oxidized environment? Where did the original amino acids get the energy to bond, if they weren't alive and had no method of obtaining said energy, nor converting resources around it into energy? It can't be reenacted in a lab, and the best theories behind it require probabilities that far exceed the alleged age of the universe.

How do evolutionists use science to answer the problem of abiogenesis; ie: the origin of life as we know it from non-life?
General Religious Discussion / Re: The existence if Israel
« Last post by Jstwebbrowsing on Yesterday at 05:27:38 PM »
JST,you are not a Jew,would Jesus even have an interest in your plight? The Christian interest in Israel is not for the Jewish religion,it's for the joy and pleasure of bringing about end times. Too bad the interest Jesus has is not for the Christian cause but for the chosen ones of God,those who chose the Jewish faith.

I do not share their beliefs.  Israel has not been God's chosen people, as evidenced by the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, since the time of Christ.  Christ himself told them "“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.38Look, your house is left to you desolate.39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’c ” (Mt 23:37-39)
I absolutely knew that was going to happen, but it wasn't something I planned for." See the contradiction?

This is called willful negligence and blatant outright stupidity.

Is it .... stupid?  Then why are you the one saying it?  You certainly don't find that in scripture.  Did you just make that up?

Psalm 33:10-11 ESV   
The Lord brings the counsel of the nations to nothing; he frustrates the plans of the peoples. The counsel of the Lord stands forever, the plans of his heart to all generations.

Isaiah 14:24 ESV
The Lord of hosts has sworn: “As I have planned, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand,

Jeremiah 29:11 ESV     
For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.

Do a little research on the matter and you'll see why some translators render it differently.

"The counsel of Jehovah standeth fast for ever, The thoughts of his heart to all generations."  (Psalm 33:11 ASV)

"Jehovah of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely, as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand" (Isaiah 14:24 ASV)

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith Jehovah, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you hope in your latter end." (Jeremiah 29:11 ASV)

Having a "purpose" (i.e. - a desired end) without an intent to carry it out (i.e. - a plan) is pretty meaningless. That would be like saying, "I desire to own a home but I'm not going to think about what steps I'm going to take to get the home." Was it just unplanned to send the Jesus figure down?

Jesus was sent, not for a plan, but for a purpose. 
Peter warned of the same thing.  "But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered." (2 Peter 2:2)

^ That has occured.  The "way of truth" (the teaching of Christ) is now in a state of disrepute because of false teachers and their behavior. 

So it is wise to be leery.  But these things should not be shocking or unexpected to us because we have been warned beforehand.  We don't need to become over fearful and not all teachers are false. I am not going to tell you that I am a "true teacher".  I am just saying that, if the Bible is to be believed, there are false ones, but there are also real ones. (Eph 4:11,12)

Interesting.  If Peter was correct, then the one true religion had already been established when he was speaking.  Anything that came along later would be a fake.  And a heresy.

JST, your religion came along much later.

Your version of religion does not exactly agree with everything Peter said.  Yours has to be one of the false teachings that we were warned about.

The scriptures also fortold an apostasy, and a restoration in the latter days.
Religion & Society / Re: Got This In The Mail Today
« Last post by nogodsforme on Yesterday at 04:43:29 PM »
^^^Looks a lot like the JW literature I remember from the 60's and 70's. The world was going to end at any moment. That was over 40 years ago, for those keeping track. Jst, want to bet on the next five years? Want to give me your house and bank account? Didn't think so. Ye of little faith.

Yay! Bring it on, Jehovah! Death and pestilence and the end of the world! I can't wait to see most everyone I know--stinking loathsome sinners-- suffering god's holy wrath!  Show them who's boss, Jesus! 2-4-6-8 who will we eliminate--nearly everyone! All my non-JW family, neighbors, friends and coworkers and their children are gone forever! I will never see them again. Hurray, look, more fruit! Happy dance!

The JW literature always had racially segregated groups of deliriously happy people picking big baskets of fruit in a park after Armageddon. Wild animals roaming around, kids playing with lions. There were never any cities, stores or houses. No signs of power lines, or even running water. Just this big open farm with all these fruit trees. Where did people sleep? Go to the bathroom? There had to be some bathrooms if all they were eating was fruit!

And everyone wore their African or Asian or other traditional ethnic clothing like in Disney's Small World exhibit--where did they buy that stuff? Maybe there were clothing orchards to pick from.

As I recall, there were no topless Polynesian women, no naked Mbuti pygmies and no burkhas or hijabs, though. :angel:
James 26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless.

I don't blame you for leaving that verse out.

Have I not done so?  My lips have not dripped honey but they have not spewed poison.  Have they?

My definition of worship is to put god above all else.  My translation of verse 27; It's so vain you can't even worship it unless you are not defiled by religion.

I don't know what you mean.  What is vain?

That sounds like the Trinity to me.  It really does.

According to the trinity Jesus was both "fully God" and "fully man".  It says that there is one God in three persons, adding to it Holy Spirit as the third person.  Each is said to be fully God, but they form one God.  They are all coequal and coeternal.

Witnesses belive that only Jehovah is God.  Holy spirit is not a person but God's impersonal "active force". It would be similar to saying that God's power is present, but it's not his power.  It's his spirit, but like his power it's a thing and not a person.   

Christ, rather than being part of a God head is God's son.  That is, the first thing God created.  He is the "firstborn of creation".  (Col 1:15).  Now while that does make him divine (heavenly), it is not God, nor was he immortal.  He is unique in that Christ participated in the creation of all other things.  He was speaking to his first born son when God said, "Let us create man in our imagine".   Since Christ participated in the creation of all other things, he is the only one created directly and soley by Jehovah.  That is why he is called the "only begotten" son.

So yes, he was definately god-like in his heavenly existense.  However, he emptied himself and gave that up to be born a human.  It is not believed that he even had any memory of his prehuman existense before his baptism and possibly not even after that.  Whatever the case may be he was as Adam was. 

Saying that Christ was God actually takes away from the greatness of what God accompished in Christ.  Christ fully had free will and he was a human, not God in the flesh.  Christ could have failed just as Adam failed.  When he was tempted he was fully temped.  He was not just going through the motions where faithfulness was a gaurantee.  What great accomplishment is that? 

Since Christ was fully human, he is the ultimate proof that the claim made by Satan, as shown in Job, and carried on to this day even here on this forum, that humans are a flawed creation, is wrong.  Christ was completely faithful in the worst of circumstances, proving that the human creation is capable of doing that for which it was created.  Jehovah was right when he called it "good".  This dignity of man brings glory to his creator.  Those around here that claim that the human creation is flawed should consider that their claim has already been proven false.  Christ was faithful to death, perfectly. 

Are you leery of what you believe?

Very much so.  The last thing I want in this world is to be mislead. 

Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; 11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from[d] the Lord. 12 But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.

Sounds cruel JW.

In which way do you mean?  What makes it cruel to you?

What's going to happen to those mentioned in 2 Peter?

They will not live forever, "they too will perish".  In scripture "perish" has the thought of wearing out, like perishables.

Religion & Society / Re: Got This In The Mail Today
« Last post by jdawg70 on Yesterday at 04:40:09 PM »
Well they've apparently made no real changes to their little mailer for at least the past 2 years:

I wonder what their estimated time frame for The Final Days is.  Appears to be at least +/- 2 years.  Guessing it's a bit longer than that.  Probably on the order of +/- infinity.
Chatter / Re: My Free Speech Is Good Yours Is Not
« Last post by nogodsforme on Yesterday at 04:25:58 PM »
^^^What so many white people don't acknowledge: racism against black folks hurts them as well.

It turns them into the kind of people who can do that kind of sh!t to one another, because once you do it to someone different, it is that much easier to do it to someone like you. If you can beat up or lynch an innocent black person, you can also beat up or lynch the white person who tries to protect the black person. And then you can hurt or kill anyone and justify it.

The effed up system of apartheid in South Africa screwed up the black population. But it also caused record rates of alcoholism and family violence among the white population, even as they were the beneficiaries of the political and economic system.

Trying to hold too many contradictions in your head makes you crazy. Religious people take warning.  :P
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