Whether you dream a hippopotamus or you see a hippopotamus in waking the test for accuracy must be the same.
What "accuracy" are you talking about?
Strangely enough the images in our minds when dreaming are pretty poor.At the time of dreaming, we make great use of emotions: the hippo becomes a mixture of the vague idea of a hippo and a set of emotions - how we feel. Seeing something in real life, like a hippo - which are very dangerous - concentrates our mind, not in emotion, but in atavistic urges to think practically so we can escape.
We wake and we think: "I had a dream about a really weird hippo. It sort of came into the room as if it was looking for something... I was worried and glad I woke up" etc.
When we see a real hippo, we don't say, "There was this hippo that started to come out of the river and lumber towards me, I was really glad when I fell asleep."
We live in a waking world. When we sleep the brain appears to have delusions as it makes sense of the day we have just experienced.
If you cannot tell the difference between a dream and being awake, you are in trouble. Those suffering mental illness have a similar difficult - their irrational thoughts, comprise a part of their reality.
Either you can't be sure that the dream hippo is not material OR you can't be sure the waking hippo is material.
I am sure that you now see that that claim is simply idiotic.
If you haven't realised that yet, you are not making a serious effort.
Well, OK, I am not making a 'serious effort' at self-delusion, if that is what you mean.
You are simply assuming that the dream hippo is not material and you are assuming that the waking hippo is material.
No. No, really, I am not. Repeat this three times, "Real hippos are real, hippos I dream about are imaginary."
You are allowed to do that. But don't pretend that you are using science when you make those assumptions.
I think this is one on those cases where we can say, "We can use common sense."
Tell me, Dominic, do you become confused between what is a dream and what is reality?
You (and most people) make those assumptions because they suit you.
So you claim that there are no assumptions that are common to mankind? Like feeling cold, or pain, or seeing an airplane?
They allow you to build a model of reality which is useful.
You realise, don't you, that you are drifting away from reality here?
Dominic, there are common experiences upon which we agree. Goodness, I might even agree with you if you said that swallows fly quickly.
We are all taught this same model as small children. That does not mean the model is correct.
I assume that you are talking about how you were taught about God as a child? I would prefer to broaden this because it seems to me that if you were taught that cars were animals, eventually, you would reach your own conclusion about that, and, like the rest of us, agree that they weren't. So whatever you are taught, you (should) challenge and there are enough people in the world who have done that.
You see, thinking dreams are material is simply lunacy. What happens to the hippo if you stop dreaming about it? The dream image of a hippo is harmless.
You may choose to say or to believe that dreams are erratic and regularly inconsistent whereas waking is consistent. But these are simply definitions of waking and dreaming. They are not verifications.
This is a really illogical explanation. You are drifting into 17th century thought patterns where you sit in a dark room without data and come to a conclusion that has no connection with the real world.
We can see changes in the brain when we sleep. When we are awake, the world is logical and obeys laws. Awake, we can eat and drink and keep alive. If someone slept for a couple of weeks, we would see them die of thirst and hunger. This has been known for hundreds of years. In a dream, you cannot reproduce. In reality we can and this eating and reproducing is what defines life, therefore we know that dreaming is not reality.
You may then claim that you are verifying whether you are awake or dreaming by testing against those assumptions that you have made - but testing against assumptions is not verification.
I'm not sure why I am even arguing with you. You seem to be making things up wilfully, and I have no idea why you do this.
Sleep has been studied by people who are awake. People who are awake have never been studied by people who are asleep.
Don't mention solipsism as an attempt to escape this conundrum because mentioning solipsism does nothing towards solving the problem.
I wasn't going to mention solipsism - I was going to mention wilful stupidity and your propagation of confused, adolescent, semantic garbage.
Just face it. It's there - it has to be faced. Face it that the science of materialism is based on assumptions, not verification.
Who told you that? Did you pay them?
Why do you believe them now that you have read what I have written?
If you really believe what you have written, do you believe that your reality is in fact a dream, that the dream is reality and when you die, a third reality will kick in?
Sleep and awake are both states of reality: real people sleep. Real people have dreams, dogs have dreams, trees don't have dreams - are trees real?