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51
General Religious Discussion / Re: What is the will of Jehovah?
« Last post by Jstwebbrowsing on Yesterday at 06:19:18 PM »
^ I guess I don't understand the answer.  Are you going to teach your children not to steal before or after they can fully understand all the concepts involved?
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General Religious Discussion / Re: What is the will of Jehovah?
« Last post by jaimehlers on Yesterday at 05:54:46 PM »
No, I actually went back to before either one understands that stealing is wrong.  Let me clarify.  Let's say there are two people that don't understand why stealing is bad.  You are going to teach them, and they are slow learners.  To the one person you are going to tell him, from the beginning, that stealing is bad and he is going to believe it and act accordingly.  To the other one you are not.  Basically, one you are teaching from the bottom up and the other one you're teaching from the top down.

Which way would you teach your children?
Neither.  This looks very much like a false dichotomy.

It would be foolish to expect either of these hypothetical individuals to actually learn anything; the one would be too busy being sycophantic and obsequious, and the other would be too busy being contrary and argumentative.  Neither would learn a thing from being taught; the one would treat any rule I gave as if it were perfect and thus would never even think to look for possible exceptions, and the other would spend too much time looking for exceptions to understand the purpose of my teaching them.

If you actually meant that the one who is not going to automatically believe me and act accordingly is a normal human being, then I would prefer the second, by far.  Because they would be able to understand both that the general rule was good, but that no rule is perfect enough to avoid having exceptions.

This is actually how children learn a language.  They start by picking up on the general language rules, then they learn to recognize the exceptions, and finally they integrate it into something that they understand without having to think about it.  So if I were going to try to teach a child something, I would at least try to follow that general pattern.  Start with the general framework, then fill in the exceptions, so that they can eventually understand the whole.

The one problem with that method is that many people never move beyond unconsciously knowing something to consciously knowing that they unconsciously understand.
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Evolution & Creationism / Re: Daughter subjected to creationism as school
« Last post by MatCauthon on Yesterday at 05:42:06 PM »
Sounds like they are trying to do some extra brainwashing against evolution, so when she is confronted about it, she can yell "FAITH!" without having to run away with her fingers in her hears.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: What is the will of Jehovah?
« Last post by Ataraxia on Yesterday at 05:31:50 PM »
^ That does not answer the question.

It's an explanation of the answer, "I wouldn't want to do that".
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General Religious Discussion / Re: What is the will of Jehovah?
« Last post by Jstwebbrowsing on Yesterday at 05:28:41 PM »
^ That does not answer the question.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: What is the will of Jehovah?
« Last post by Ataraxia on Yesterday at 05:23:59 PM »
But let's say you wanted to teach your child the lesson that it is wise to listen to you?  How would you do this?

Why would you want to do something like that? That judgment call is for them to make, not you. "Wow, my dad really is wise because when I stand his claims up against what happens in reality, they fit more often than not."

If it's wise to listen to you, then that is demonstrated by your ability to accurately predict outcomes and not by you simply believing you are wise and therefore worth listening to.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: What is the will of Jehovah?
« Last post by Jstwebbrowsing on Yesterday at 05:07:26 PM »
I wouldn't stop there.  I would continually be involved until s/he was capable of understanding.  I wouldn't just give him/her the instructions and just assume that s/he will eventually get it.

Okay, so in the meantime what would you like from your child?  Faith, obediance, or both?  Or something else altogether?

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But can I ask - in what way is 'do it like this, and accept it because I say so' in any form or fashion a manner of teaching something?  The only lesson that I can see from that is obey me.  And I think you agree that isn't the most useful lesson in and of itself.

It's not.  But let's say you wanted to teach your child the lesson that it is wise to listen to you?  How would you do this?

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6 + 7 = 13.  Trust me.  Have faith that the answer is correct.  That doesn't teach anyone anything about addition.  Nothing.

You are right. 
58
There needs to be a section which theists can see and want to be involved in.

How about a section called - try to convert an atheist- which could be where a theist can choose someone and attempt to convert them to their way of thinking. It is a risk but more tempting for the theist. The theist could take the lead and the atheist can only make objections.
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I may yet get to heaven by fulfilling gods plan for me to be an atheist, as long as I don't switch I will be acting in accordance to his plan.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: What is the will of Jehovah?
« Last post by Jstwebbrowsing on Yesterday at 04:51:34 PM »
On that front though, if you believed the population of your city was alive, with hopes and dreams... and you loved them, and it was important to you that they choose to worship you.   How would you go about ensuring that they know you are real, can't misinterpret your will, and wouldn't need to have blind faith to know you existed?

What if that's not what I want?  What if I want to identify those that are, let's say, "like minded"?  What if I wanted to identify those that would do my will without any coersion from me, and against all odds?

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Would you create hundreds of millions of empty, uninhabitable worlds, in an infinitely huge environment, just to create their city?  Or would you simply create what you need?

Not for that reason, but I might still create all those other things.  Let's face it.  If he's going to give us forever, we're going to need something to do.  And who is anyone to say if we're the only life there is in the universe?  The scriptures do say he's created life other than life on earth.  They at least say he created angels.  I know there are those that argue the entire universe appears to have been created for humans, and perhaps it does appear that way.  However, there is no scriptural basis to say that it actually was.  So I can neither confirm nor deny from a scriptural perspective.  But I know he did not create it all simply for nothing.

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