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Chatter / Re: exodus 22:17 (Hebrew] 22:18 (OT)
« Last post by The Gawd on Today at 11:55:16 AM »
Thank you for that! Graybeard I was always under the impression that it was only the bible. My stance is most certainly changed.

You're supposed to hold on to your previous position even stronger in the face of evidence to the contrary.
Religion & Society / Shining example of Christian morality
« Last post by wright on Today at 11:51:33 AM »
So this god-believing towtruck driver responds to a call from a stranded motorist. He apparently knew she had a physical disability before he even got there, according to the mechanic who dispatched him.

What he didn't know was that she had a Bernie Sanders bumper sticker. That, according to him, was justification enough to refuse her service.

Oh, and his SPAG's approval, of course:

McWade, who had no intention to stiff anyone (and who promptly and fully paid the tow-truck guy who eventually did show up) was distraught at having been snubbed by Shupe.

    “I personally don’t believe that you have to agree on anything — just to be kind to one another,” McWade said. “I was like, what did I do to you?“

Shupe shrugs and says that he’s pleased with what he did. McWade’s disability is of no consequence to him:

    “I stand by my decision, and I would do it again today if the opportunity presented itself.”

Hope he gets sued. Hope he loses business over this to the point that it hurts him financially. Hope even more that he learns better morals than he has now. Not holding my breath for the last, though.
Star Trek is a thinly-veiled morality tale of “good” versus “evil” – it should do well in Zoroastrian circles.

Humans have always had and always will have the desire to impose their beliefs on others. We need not travel to the stars to have this question thrust upon us.

Think of ISIS in Syria and Iraq – should we just let them get on with it? OK, they will not abide by our noble theory of “non-interference”, and if we do leave them to get on with it, we will find large parts of Africa, Asia and Europe ruled by 12th century superstitious ideals, and our supply of oil restricted and expensive[1].

On the other hand, let's say we find a tribe of natives somewhere of whom 50% are blind with cataracts and those who are blind are left to die. With our medical knowledge, all are cheaply curable, should we say, “Sod it! Leave them alone.”? Or should we say, “Free sight for everyone!” and then, when the population exceeds their resources, or they start drifting to the cities as beggars, send in aid for the starving – too little too late?

There are no easy answers.
 1. remember the thread about gas prices? Yea, well that can be restarted…
The problem with the "silent majority" is that they are silent.  They may be opposed to something, but they often do little about it because they don't want to rock their own boat.  And as such, they can be used by the vocal minority.

However, I think that you'd find that most of the people who are putatively on the side of the extremists actually aren't.  They just have a positive, albeit unrealistic, view of the extremists, and if they think of the violence at all, they're rationalizing it away as being the fault of those attacked.
The problem with exaggerating the threat of Islam or equating the moderates with the 5-10% who at least quietly support extremism is that it drowns out reasonable objections to Islam with exaggerated fear talk.

It's like saying all Christians are a threat to bomb abortion clinics or support the KKK... that's obviously not true.

It is amazing to me that any human being could be "in favor of" ISIS.   Especially considering ISIS is abusing other Muslims for not being the right denomination.   But that PEW poll does show a solid 5-10% support rate among most of the countries listed.

While even one extremist is too much, like I said, I'm talking about people who quietly support extreme Islam even if they don't participate.   Maybe they wouldn't give information to the police if they knew an attack was coming.  Maybe they quietly support women getting what's coming to them as kidnapped war brides.   Maybe they quietly wish they could be in a position of power holding a gun and carving out an Old School Islamic State.

I don't think they have to act on that wish to be labeled an extremist...

Take a guy like Detective Mark Furman from the OJ trial.  Maybe he didn't burn crosses on people's front yard or hang african americans from a tree... but the guy was extremely racist.

I think the minority of Islamic followers who fit into that kind of mindset is significant... too large... and in the millions.    Islamic women who've escaped countries like this agree and speak out against it.

More stuff like THIS is needed:

“Most women don’t know but as mothers you can play a very important role and prevent it before it gets to a stage where they have already got on a plane and flown off into Syria and Iraq. I know women who have challenged hate preachers and prevented them from coming to their areas. I feel very strongly that if we see [more of] that we will reduce the threat of [the Islamic State] recruiting our own people.”

This may be apologetics in the same way that Christian apologists try to explain away the violence in the Bible as "not really being there"... but, if the moderates re-define Islam to be a much softer version of what's actually written in the Q'uran (which is just as awful as the Bible), great!
Yup and the Germans opposed all Nazism and never ever supported it no sir not us we have never ever supported the Nazi party with our hitler youth or anything it was someone else. Maybe if they had an english lesson from you or even a grammar lesson from some german speaker then all those millions wouldn't have died in the second world war.
The Germans supported Nazism because Hitler brought them out of the Great Depression and avenged their humiliation from 20+ years before.  That doesn't mean they supported the systematic extermination of millions of people that Hitler and his cronies propagated.  In fact, most of them thought that the Jews and other groups were simply being relocated, because that's what the Nazi propaganda claimed.

Quote from: Jontom10
They say what the mainstream wants them to hear. Every time Islam is exposed for the barbaric sub human hell that it is the apologists, such as yourself, all come out and say they oppose all extremism etc and the silent majority say the same if questioned.
Sounds like someone's been reading himself a bit too much propaganda lately.  Muslim countries are not a "barbaric sub human hell" even under the loosest definition.  That doesn't mean they're shining examples of human progress, either, so don't even think about pulling that sort of strawman with me or anyone else.  Most people - doesn't matter what country they come from - just want to live their lives in peace and quiet.  However, that makes them vulnerable, since if they can't, they want someone to blame, and extremists of any stripe are ready and eager to provide scapegoats which just so happen to be those they're ideologically opposed to.  And, naturally, to paint the worst possible picture of those scapegoats to make it easy for people to think of them as barbaric, or subhuman, or hellish.

Quote from: Jontom10
There is no such thing as moderate Islam, it is what it is. Death to everything that isn't Islam. The population subject on topic is a war of attrition of Islam against everyone else.
Mind telling us where you got your information from?  Because I'm pretty sure that's propaganda you heard from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone, rather than solid info that's based on facts in evidence.

Let me put it to you this way; if Islam were as fanatical as you claim, 9/11 wouldn't just have involved four hijacked airplanes that smashed one building and damaged another.
Chatter / Re: Prince has died.
« Last post by Emma286 on Today at 10:12:01 AM »
It's possible that if we figure out what the universe is for, we might decide to kill everyone, to put them out of their misery.

My other idea, is that The Prime Directive could be used to leave a civilization alone, to let it come up with inventions, such as velcro and the well tempered clavier.
General Religious Discussion / Re: God the Pervert
« Last post by Jag on Today at 08:45:07 AM »
This topic is a perfect case in point actually. Views on incest have inarguably changed over time and across cultures.

Admittedly, this is something I don't know much about! Are you meaning that it was once (in the long ago past) thought to be a good thing for the human race but it's now widely recognised that it isn't? Or are you meaning something different there? :)

TBH Emma, I had a couple of thoughts about this while I wrote it. First, there is a different name used to describe sexual contact between relatives - incest. That there is a specific word that sets this kind of sexual activity apart is a hint that there is something different going on. Next, incest is still a huge problem, but people are willing and able to talk about it now, and there is help available precisely because we no longer pretend that this doesn't happen.

Certain royal families, as I understand it, insisted on "keeping it in the family", in an effort to "keep the bloodline pure" - this is one of the reasons my skin just crawls when a theist talks about DNA "purity", they are not thinking through the implications of what they are saying. (I'm at work, so I'm not going to take the time to dig out references, but I will look later, in case I'm passing along a fabrication that I've just accepted as truth.)

Back to how things are different. I can't speak for how this is in other parts of the US, but in MN there are a lot of resources available to intervene in cases of incest. A former neighbor (M, an RN) was molested by her father throughout her childhood, along with her sister. M's sister died (I don't know the details, but have strong suspicions that it was suicide and that M blames her father, who is also deceased), and M built her a beautiful memorial garden in a corner of her yard. Then she started volunteering at a crisis line, and moved to the neonatal unit at the hospital she worked for. Eventually, the crisis line became her full time job, and she now spends her days helping kids who are being sexually abused. She's amazing, and I have a great deal of respect and admiration for her.

It's weird how communities have history that is invisible. In the (mostly) rural county where I attended college, I've been told that incest cases are higher than in any other county in the state. I'm not sure where documentation of this would be, but I heard it from enough people (locals who lived in the community for most or all of their lives, and worked on campus) to think that they are basing their statements on something real. It's horrible, but I see a big change in the last 10-15 years - people TALK about it now. Yes, there are still inappropriate stigmas that attach to the victims/survivors, but at least I now hear people openly speaking about incest and condemning it, rather than pretending it isn't happening or ignoring it entirely. It's not enough, it's nowhere NEAR enough, but it's a place to start making progress. We can't do anything about problems we fail or refuse to recognize.

It's hard to see how incestuous coupling could have been entirely avoided in the very beginning of humanity. However, it's also useful to remember that the stigmas would not have existed either, and thus there would have been no shame. It's impossible to have any real understanding of the emotional context, and it's tempting to say that survival was probably a bigger concern, and sex may have been seen as unrelated to survival for quite a while - I think it would take some time to make the connection between sex and childbirth in the absence of others who already understand it. I don't see how we will ever know for sure.
  Gaddafi made the point there is no real need for the bombings, wars and murders etc as muslims are out breeding Europeans and Europe will eventually be Muslim as per the original topic.

Gaddafi is not exactly a Nobel laureate, or impartial.

As soon as mortality rates drop, and Muslim women get educated and used the workforce, they become as infertile as western women.

(Source nogodzforme)
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