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41
Chatter / Re: Mr. President Donald Trump
« Last post by velkyn on Yesterday at 01:06:30 PM »
I just read that Der Spiegel piece and it is very very good.  and very very distressing.
42
General Religious Discussion / Re: No True Scotsman
« Last post by velkyn on Yesterday at 01:01:11 PM »
The Jews did experience those things through the withdrawal of his protection.  God does not protect people so they can do evil.  If you want to do evil then you're on your own in Satan's world, and it's full of horrors.

that, not to put too fine a point on it, is simply bullshit and yet more excuses.  Your god visited such things on people intentionally, jst. it wasn't anyone else but the supposed "wrath" of this god that caused these horrors.
Quote
By the wrath of the Lord Almighty the land will be scorched and the people will be fuel for the fire; they will not spare one another.20 On the right they will devour, but still be hungry;on the left they will eat, but not be satisfied.
Each will feed on the flesh of their own offspring:21 Manasseh will feed on Ephraim, and Ephraim on Manasseh; together they will turn against Judah.
  You seem to think that no one read this nonsense and you can make up what you want.  Your god created and enforced these horrors.  You again either are terribly ignorant about what your bible actually says or you are intentionally trying to make false claims in order to make your religion seem less vile.     

I think many atheists will be resurrected on the earth under the rulership of Christ.  I believe some of them will receive everlasting life.  Some of you seem to think I equate atheist with wickedness.  I do not.

1.  What is the right belief for a Christian?  I have given this significant thought.  And I would say it depends on the maturity of the Christian and their access to reliable shepherding.

I don't have a creed for you.  Christianity does not begin after X number of facts are known.  Christianity begins when one answers the call to "come follow me".  Scripturally speaking, the minimum requirements are laid out in Hebrews 11:6, John 17:3 and Rev 3:20.

2.  How should a Christian act?  A mature Christian lives a life free from the practice of sin and follows Christ's command to make disciples.
funny how your bible disagrees with you.  So again no reason to believe you or your bible or any other Christian. Hmm, so if a Christain is to live without sin, then I should be able to expect you to be following the commandments that JC says are still in force, since this world is still around.  How many people have you murdered for working on the Sabbath, jst?  Or are you sinning by turning your head and not doing this god-spoken command?     

And for the claims of how Christians should be following JC and doing what he says, and then per the bible being able to do miracles like JC did, funny how no self-described Christian, including jst, can do what is promised.  Seems like you all are wrong. 
43
General Religious Discussion / Re: No True Scotsman
« Last post by 12 Monkeys on Yesterday at 12:24:59 PM »
I don't think judgement day is something to fear.  Isaiah 9:1-7 paints a picture of judgement day.  Does that sound like something to fear or something this world desperately needs?

It’s always fun to read the bible when a TrueChristian tries to make believe that things are all peachy keen and their god is such a lovey thing.  It’s also interesting that someone who wants to claim that JC isn’t this god, uses a verse that says that this entity has to be this god or it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
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Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the nations, by the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan—
The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of deep darkness a light has dawned.

3 You have enlarged the nation and increased their joy; they rejoice before you as people rejoice at the harvest, as warriors rejoice when dividing the plunder. 4 For as in the day of Midian’s defeat, you have shattered the yoke that burdens them, the bar across their shoulders, the rod of their oppressor. 5 Every warrior’s boot used in battle and every garment rolled in blood will be destined for burning, will be fuel for the fire.

6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.”
  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+9&version=NIV
Of course, the verses in the same chapter right after this, shows this god to be the usual vicious petty thing it is described as in the bible.  People will be “fuel for the fire”.  They will be compelled to eat their children.   So, jst, it’s just pathetic when you say that the world “needs” such horrors.   With such claims, it does seem evident that there is no reason to hope you are a decent human being.  We still have your supposed “messiah” that said people should be brought before him and murdered, and that everyone who doesn’t obey him should be murdered in Revelation.  So your claims of this being having the qualities of kindness, compassion and forgiveness are simply nonsense per your own bible.  I do have to wonder if you think no one has read the bible and that your nonsense will pass unquestioned.

The Jews did experience those things through the withdrawal of his protection.  God does not protect people so they can do evil.  If you want to do evil then you're on your own in Satan's world, and it's full of horrors.
is commanding followers to bash babies heads against rocks....and leaving the young girls alive so you can rape them evil.....a simple yes or no will be sufficient
44
Chatter / Re: Mr. President Donald Trump
« Last post by Jag on Yesterday at 11:32:15 AM »
An opinion piece on Trump

This was written by from a European perspective (the writer is German), and is painfully on the mark. I read it one paragraph at a time for nearly the entire article because his points seem right on target and they're disturbing. It took a minute to absorb it and not get furious about how fucked up this all is.

I don't doubt for a second that Trump would sacrifice us all in order to "win", by whatever fucked up standards he uses. There is no room for compromise, no room to negotiate, with Trump it's all or nothing and he's determined to take all.

Jesus H. Christ, the clock is ticking and we appear to be effectively locked in place. I've got to get my ass back out on the front lines of the protests and put my communication skills back to work.
45
General Religious Discussion / Re: No True Scotsman
« Last post by wheels5894 on Yesterday at 09:22:15 AM »
Fear? Well that depends on what the judge chooses. Let's see...


Suppose one of us were to be charged with a  crime and have to go to court. Let's say that person is accused of murder. So, the rules (laws) are there to explain precisely what the prosecution has to show, and, of course, how that person might be shown to be not guilty. The rules are quite clear and the justice system allows appeals if the judge fails to stick to the rules.


So, the trial begins as we all know and, in this case, the defence can easily show the person charged didn't go the crime because there is DNA evidence showing the person could not have done the crime. Of course in this case, our defendant went to court without fear, knowing the outcome before the event but, think, if that DNA evidence didn't exist would he not then be fearful? Would he not be worried that hi not guilty plea might not be enough to stop him being found guilty?

So, in this Day of Judgement event[1] we won't have a legal team to present the evidence - indeed, it seems, there will be no time to work on this. There is no appeal and the judge and jury rolled into one means that this is rough justice. Then the rules which one may have kept or broken? Are they all as clear as they might be? Can anyone be sure that they have kept them the right way - given the they are interpreted differently throughout the Christian world? After all,  people who have been worshipping Jesus as god could be trouble straightaway and those who have worshipped only YHWH and consider Jesus not to be god could have the same problems.


It is clear that fear will be important as no one person could be certain they have done the right things and believed the right things to get into heaven. How can this not be a day of fear?
 1. an event that is only a story with no evidence that it might actually happen!

I'm not at all impressed with the legal system you mention.  Innocent people get locked in cages and guilty people go free.  Justice has been largely reduced to which lawyer is more convincing or which can negotiate the best deal.    Guilty persons are locked in cages and subject to continual violence and sexual assault.  In prisons, conditions are so bad that that some kill  themselves.  Some, in effect volunteer for slavery just to get some reprieve.   It's pathetic. 

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I'd much rather take my chances with Christ.


Really? When the teaching you get says Jesus is not part of the godhead but a man? Surely one should at least rely on the godhead not a lacky! I am surprised that a member of a group that uses the name of god in it's name rather than Christ should not be putting trust in YHWH - he who created all things etc.

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When Christ was on earth it was a time of judgement for the Jews which ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E.  Those that obeyed Christ fled "into the mountains" when they saw Jerusalem "surrounded by armies".  Likewise, on judgement day those that listen to Christ will be safe.


The people of Israel were removed from Israel by the Romans not on any godly decree but because they would not obey Roman Law. It is a simply as that - an invader and occupier claims the power to rule and those that fail to obey them tend to get sent away - sometimes to death. There is only one Messianic element to this and that was the failure of the so-called Messiah to fulfil the Messianic prophecies and to lead and army to defeat the Romans.That is what the Jews then and now are waiting for in a Messiah. Oddly the nearest we have come to a Messiah is in 132CE when Simon Bar Kokhbar established a Jewish state but was killed in 135CE. 

Quote
But before this happens wicked people will have pushed humanity to extinction.  "No flesh would survive" unless the days are "cut short".  It is on account of this that God's righteous judgement is coming.  There is no injustice.  And if history is any indicator, Christ is much more merciful and understanding than human judges.  He never condemned anyone for simply holding the wrong belief.  I don't know where you guys get this idea.  It's not in scripture.   

I am also quite sure that we don't envision judgement day the same.  It takes place under Christ's millennial rule.  People will not be judged on past deeds, but based on how they respond to Christ's ruler-ship.  I see nothing to fear from his ruler-ship.  We see an example of what his ruler-ship is like in the scriptures by his interactions while on earth. 

You know, I thought it was now taught that Jesus started ruling the earth in 1914[2]. In which case his rule is not to splendid yet. Of course, you are rather misusing a text about Roman persecution - one written to encourage Christians enduring - to second guess the future. This is a dangerous thing to do as Harold Camping learned! We all know how the world will end. For humans it will end with the earlier of the failure of the earth's magnetic field or the sun becoming a red giant in about 5 billion years time. Of course, with luck and skill, people will have gone into the heavens and will have established new world to live on in another galaxy perhaps. That we know - anything that involves the second coming or anyone is, how shall I put it.... hope overcoming reality. 

Quote
But Christ was not lovey dovey all the time.  He cut no slack to those that opposed him, namely the apostate religious leaders.  He even prayed for the forgiveness of those carrying out the execution because of their ignorance.  So unless you are like those that Christ condemned while on earth, I see no reason for fear.     
 


Mmmmm.... wasn't it the religious leaders who were condemned? I rather think so. Yet those religious leaders were teaching their followers so would you not think that there would be problems for those followers too? So, let's look as religious leaders. As a bunch they are not very good at doing anything mentioned in Matt 25:31ff, are they. Indeed, being picky about rules, keep for money and unloving might be a picture of various religious leaders and groups of leaders. It sounds, then, that any religious person ought to seriously question whether those who lead them - those who set the rules and doctrine- whether these are people who would be rejected by Jesus like the Pharisees.
 2. Russell said this was the second coming date but like all other guesses it passed noticed.
46
General Religious Discussion / Re: No True Scotsman
« Last post by Jstwebbrowsing on Yesterday at 12:30:11 AM »
I think this discussion is at an end. JST had dodged all the important remarks he can't answer, and now we are left with an authoritative banality, with nothing to comment on, and no basis for empirical evidence.


Sadly, I think you are right. The important questions -


1. What is right belief for a True Christian?
2. How should a True Christian act?


remain unanswered and it still seems that atheists might get into heaven based on our actions - even if we don't want to! Sadly I think that is a far as it is  likely to go,

I think many atheists will be resurrected on the earth under the rulership of Christ.  I believe some of them will receive everlasting life.  Some of you seem to think I equate atheist with wickedness.  I do not.

1.  What is the right belief for a Christian?  I have given this significant thought.  And I would say it depends on the maturity of the Christian and their access to reliable shepherding.

I don't have a creed for you.  Christianity does not begin after X number of facts are known.  Christianity begins when one answers the call to "come follow me".  Scripturally speaking, the minimum requirements are laid out in Hebrews 11:6, John 17:3 and Rev 3:20.

2.  How should a Christian act?  A mature Christian lives a life free from the practice of sin and follows Christ's command to make disciples.
47
General Religious Discussion / Re: No True Scotsman
« Last post by Jstwebbrowsing on May 26, 2017, 11:51:38 PM »
I don't think judgement day is something to fear.  Isaiah 9:1-7 paints a picture of judgement day.  Does that sound like something to fear or something this world desperately needs?

It’s always fun to read the bible when a TrueChristian tries to make believe that things are all peachy keen and their god is such a lovey thing.  It’s also interesting that someone who wants to claim that JC isn’t this god, uses a verse that says that this entity has to be this god or it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Quote
Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the nations, by the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan—
The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of deep darkness a light has dawned.

3 You have enlarged the nation and increased their joy; they rejoice before you as people rejoice at the harvest, as warriors rejoice when dividing the plunder. 4 For as in the day of Midian’s defeat, you have shattered the yoke that burdens them, the bar across their shoulders, the rod of their oppressor. 5 Every warrior’s boot used in battle and every garment rolled in blood will be destined for burning, will be fuel for the fire.

6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.”
  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+9&version=NIV
Of course, the verses in the same chapter right after this, shows this god to be the usual vicious petty thing it is described as in the bible.  People will be “fuel for the fire”.  They will be compelled to eat their children.   So, jst, it’s just pathetic when you say that the world “needs” such horrors.   With such claims, it does seem evident that there is no reason to hope you are a decent human being.  We still have your supposed “messiah” that said people should be brought before him and murdered, and that everyone who doesn’t obey him should be murdered in Revelation.  So your claims of this being having the qualities of kindness, compassion and forgiveness are simply nonsense per your own bible.  I do have to wonder if you think no one has read the bible and that your nonsense will pass unquestioned.

The Jews did experience those things through the withdrawal of his protection.  God does not protect people so they can do evil.  If you want to do evil then you're on your own in Satan's world, and it's full of horrors. 
48
General Religious Discussion / Re: No True Scotsman
« Last post by Jstwebbrowsing on May 26, 2017, 11:41:29 PM »
Fear? Well that depends on what the judge chooses. Let's see...


Suppose one of us were to be charged with a  crime and have to go to court. Let's say that person is accused of murder. So, the rules (laws) are there to explain precisely what the prosecution has to show, and, of course, how that person might be shown to be not guilty. The rules are quite clear and the justice system allows appeals if the judge fails to stick to the rules.


So, the trial begins as we all know and, in this case, the defence can easily show the person charged didn't go the crime because there is DNA evidence showing the person could not have done the crime. Of course in this case, our defendant went to court without fear, knowing the outcome before the event but, think, if that DNA evidence didn't exist would he not then be fearful? Would he not be worried that hi not guilty plea might not be enough to stop him being found guilty?


So, in this Day of Judgement event[1] we won't have a legal team to present the evidence - indeed, it seems, there will be no time to work on this. There is no appeal and the judge and jury rolled into one means that this is rough justice. Then the rules which one may have kept or broken? Are they all as clear as they might be? Can anyone be sure that they have kept them the right way - given the they are interpreted differently throughout the Christian world? After all,  people who have been worshipping Jesus as god could be trouble straightaway and those who have worshipped only YHWH and consider Jesus not to be god could have the same problems.


It is clear that fear will be important as no one person could be certain they have done the right things and believed the right things to get into heaven. How can this not be a day of fear?
 1. an event that is only a story with no evidence that it might actually happen!

I'm not at all impressed with the legal system you mention.  Innocent people get locked in cages and guilty people go free.  Justice has been largely reduced to which lawyer is more convincing or which can negotiate the best deal.    Guilty persons are locked in cages and subject to continual violence and sexual assault.  In prisons, conditions are so bad that that some kill  themselves.  Some, in effect volunteer for slavery just to get some reprieve.   It's pathetic. 

I'd much rather take my chances with Christ.

When Christ was on earth it was a time of judgement for the Jews which ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E.  Those that obeyed Christ fled "into the mountains" when they saw Jerusalem "surrounded by armies".  Likewise, on judgement day those that listen to Christ will be safe.

But before this happens wicked people will have pushed humanity to extinction.  "No flesh would survive" unless the days are "cut short".  It is on account of this that God's righteous judgement is coming.  There is no injustice.  And if history is any indicator, Chist is much more merciful and understanding than human judges.  He never condemned anyone for simply holding the wrong belief.  I don't know where you guys get this idea.  It's not in scripture.   

I am also quite sure that we don't envision judgement day the same.  It takes place under Christ's millenial rule.  People will not be judged on past deeds, but based on how they respond to Christ's rulership.  I see nothing to fear from his rulership.  We see an example of what his rulership is like in the scriptures by his interactions while on earth. 

But Christ was not lovey dovey all the time.  He cut no slack to those that opposed him, namely the apostate religious leaders.  He even prayed for the forgiveness of those carrying out the execution because of their ignorance.  So unless you are like those that Christ condemned while on earth, I see no reason for fear.     
 
49
Guy looks like a giant gerbil with glasses and has 5 kids.  Wtf does he know about cool?

50
^^^Ooh! <scampers off to read it>
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