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41
Chatter / Re: Mt. McKinley No Longer -- Here Comes Mt. Obama!
« Last post by nogodsforme on Today at 12:41:31 AM »
Perception over reality. Such ignorance. No wonder they don't want ethnic studies or real history taught in school. They want to believe that their literally whitewashed version of the past really happened.

That is why Trump wants to change the citizenship laws to make it so that being born here is not enough. They want their racist perception (that anyone not white is a foreigner who just arrived yesterday, and does not belong here) to be supported by reality. Sad. Just like people who tell 3rd and 4th generation Asian-Am folks that their English is very good. And that Native Americans should go back to where they came from.  &)
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Bible Inerrancy for Dennis
« Last post by nogodsforme on Today at 12:34:01 AM »
Yah, sounds like time to stay put. Tell him a prof says we need him to teach math.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: "I Was Once an Atheist"
« Last post by nogodsforme on Today at 12:28:46 AM »
I have had strange experiences, just as odd as any of those personal stories you refer to, skeptic. You know about some of the weird things I have seen, heard, felt, etc. Yet I have never made the jump you made from "this weird thing just happened to me" to "that means that magic is real, this certain god exists, and I will now adopt this entire belief system based on an ancient book". I can't figure out how you get from one to the other. Explain to me, what is the connection?

How do I get from: "I heard a child's voice talking in English in an empty room in a building full of adult military personnel in a country where nobody speaks English" to "Therefore I will devote my life to Jesus, decide that the bible is true and worship a god named Jehovah." The child's voice did not say anything about Jesus, Jehovah or the bible. Why would I connect the child's voice to anything religious? If the child's voice had mentioned Allah and Mohammed, should I have become a Muslim?  If the bloody words you saw on the wall had said, "Worship Allah and read the Quran", would you be a Muslim now?

Or, "I was bitten several times by a dog the villagers said was possessed by a demon. I think the dog had rabies. I got the wounds cleaned out, got shots and I am okay now." Instead you, skeptic, think that I should have agreed with the villagers and decided that the dog had a demon in it and then, instead of getting first aid and rabies shots, done what? Participated in an exorcism?[1] 

And why does the strange event have to lead directly to Jesus/Jehovah/bible? Why not jump from strange event to Allah and Mohammed and the Quran? Why not jump from strange event to Sikhism or Hinduism or Santeria? (I have to suspect GPS coordinates are the biggest determinant of which religion/god combo people jump to.)

Why should I jump from strange event to religion and gods anyway? Why can't there just be unexplained strange events? Until I know what the event was, it remains unexplained. I don't need to make jumps into religion.  :P
 1. The dog bit several other people who did not get the shots. They did Christian and animist rituals to defeat the demons. I think some of the other people who were bitten died, but it might have been from infected wounds and not rabies per se. I do not think demon rituals are good defense against rabies. 
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Chatter / Re: Mt. McKinley No Longer -- Here Comes Mt. Obama!
« Last post by Timo on Today at 12:15:26 AM »
I am sure that's most likely the reason but in today's racist makeup even Latino/Hispanics aren't considered True White™.

I don't know. Bigotry, as far as I can tell, doesn't always or even usually work out to be blanket hatred towards each and every member of the hated group or groups. There always seems to be room for someone, say a young US Senator from the great state of Texas, to be deemed by the bigots to be "one of the good ones." A PPP poll just showed that a higher percentage of self-identified Republicans believe that Senator Cruz was born in the US (40%) than the president (29%).
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General Religious Discussion / Re: "I Was Once an Atheist"
« Last post by sun_king on Today at 12:07:18 AM »

It's certainly possible that sun_king and I could get into an argument right now about what does or does not constitute an atheist.  With his whole 'neutral' analogy, I suspect that we do disagree.  He may very well consider me to not be an atheist.  I'm not sure.  And you could point all day long and say "See?  See?  You guys are doing it too!" and that would not, in the least, make 'No True Scotsmanism' on the side of the Christian argument any less problematic.
Clarifications:

Atheist: For me, an atheist is a person with no theist notions i.e. No belief in deities/supernatural entities/powers/charms/fairies etc. So a newborn is de facto an atheist till someone inducts them into a belief system.
Neutral: There are many who are convinced that there is one god but not sure which one. I used "neutral" to describe the phase just before they identify a deity of convenience and start all the funky stuff. I know a lot of folks like this, torn between the traditional family god and a "better" one.[1] Some of them find Jesus or Allah.
No True Scotsman: Big mistake from my side, it was not well thought of. There are atheists and then there are some who have delusions of being an atheist. The rational thinking of an atheist should prevent him/her from denouncing it as an individual. The only way I would become a believer is when a power of sufficient capabilities manifests before the entire world. A private audience will not sway me because I have no way to tell if I am hallucinating. A similar thought  process should be applicable for most atheists, we would need a confirmation that the deity is accessible to the multitude and hence ruling out hallucination. If the deity withstands the scientific rigor then the ensuing conversion should be en masse.[2] So I am still backing PP's assertion that the new theist was not a good atheist because he made the choice without fully eliminating the probability of it being a figment of imagination. Quite distinct from the informal fallacy of No True Scotsman, this is what happens when you post in a hurry. My apologies.
 1. We have a lot this in India, the family tradition would be Ganesha but the odd one would be convinced that Ganesha's brother Subramanya is more awesome.
 2. We can start believing in the existence of a deity as proven scientifically, worshiping it would be the individuals choice.
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Um. Where to begin. Okay. Let's see if I have this right, skeptic. Demons are only interested in turning humans away from Christ and into sin, correct? So negative emotions like jealousy are created by demons to cause trouble among humans.[1]Evolution has nothing to do with negative human emotions. It is demons. Am I still on track?

Now skeptic, you do know that animals fight over food, mates and territory, don't you? Even insects like bees are territorial and when there are two queens, they fight over who gets to rule the hive and who has to leave and start her own elsewhere. Does it seem too much of a stretch that an emotion like jealousy among humans could arise from basic territorial instincts? 

Chimps, gorillas, elephants, wolves and other social animals display pretty much every negative emotional behavior we have found in human beings, including hurt feelings, jealousy, bullying, grief, and even something very much like guilt.  Studies of dogs show that if you give one a larger treat than the other for performing a trick, the second dog will behave in a jealous manner, demonstrate hurt feelings and refuse to perform the trick again.[2]

So, given what we know about animal behavior, I am not sure where you get the idea that you need demons to account for the existence of negative emotions in humans. Demons would not have to do that. Evolution has it covered. Unless you want to backtrack and say that there are some demons assigned to cover only humans, but there are also dog-focused demons, hyena-focused demons baboon-focused demons and bee-focused demons. I don't think that is in the bible. :-\

Did you tell us where demons came from? Was there just one original batch who are still around, or do they multiply over time? Do they live forever or do they die off?  At what point in the creation of the universe did god make demons, look upon them and decide they were good to go? :?
 1. I will skip over for now the problem of why our wise and caring parent god allows demons to do all this evil to his beloved human children....another pointless test to see which of his beloved children deserves to burn in eternal torment, I guess. Pointless, because god already knows who will follow demons and who will not.
 2. I have a dog exactly like that. The smart little straight one is totally jealous of his big dumb gay brother. If he thinks he is being cheated, he will definitely let you know.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Bible Inerrancy for Dennis
« Last post by jynnan tonnix on Yesterday at 11:51:49 PM »
Math is really his first love. That and cats. I probably come in around third. lol

The Peace Corps might have been interesting back at some point, but we've been moving around so much over the past 30+ years, so the idea of actually being able to settle down and get some projects done around the house that we'll actually be able to enjoy living with rather than putting the house on the market as soon as it gets to where it's feeling like home is appealing. That, plus my parents are getting elderly and since I'm an only child they really don't want us moving away again now that we are finally close by. And our daughter & son-in-law are only 15 minutes away as well, and who knows...they may even decide to finally procreate at some point...
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Religion In The News / Re: That's Right!
« Last post by Nam on Yesterday at 11:37:14 PM »
She has been married several times and had an affair with one while married to another.  But I guess that is OK with her closely held religious beliefs.  She makes $80,000 a doing this job (can you believe that?) along with benefits both now and a good retirement pension.  Do you think she will give all that up over this?

Wonder what the odd are in Vegas.  I bet she calls in sick in the morning.

Damn -- that's what the county clerk where i live would say. She only makes $35,000 a year.

-Nam
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General Religious Discussion / Re: "I Was Once an Atheist"
« Last post by Nam on Yesterday at 11:31:02 PM »

Based on all your comments here I say bullshit to that.

-Nam

Well what can I say, Nam? I know what I saw in my friend's house that day and no amount of rational intelligent thought can outweigh what I saw.

That is something I didn't understand when I was an atheist. All of these "personal stories" sounded foolish.....until one day when it happens to you and everything just clicks and comes together perfectly and your mind is open.

Things like this is why I don't believe you. See, according to you Jesus and/or Biblegod did not come to you, a demon did. So, based on that in the stupid logic you have, you should worship demons because they showed themselves to you, according to you. Instead of doing the logical thing in worshipping demons (because you were shown proof of demons not Jesus or Biblegod) instead that made you believe in Jesus and Biblegod and Catholics aren't Christian, and if no one believes exactly as you do, they are not True™ bonafide Christians.

It's nonsense -- you always believed because only an insane person would say the writing on the wall proves demons therefore Jesus/Biblegod.

That's insane, and irrational even if demons, Biblegod/Jesus existed. It's the stupidest shit I've ever read by someone.

What i can conclude based on all your agglomerated comments on here, as an absolute fact is: YOU ARE INSANE!

There is no logic even in your superstition. That's insanity.

-Nam
50
Sinister Minister, that is one freaking creepy avatar. Made me jump. I guess that is the idea.  :o
Too much?

It made me laugh, I love cheesy zombie films.   Happy to change it if it offends or disturbs.

Simon Pegg! Simon Pegg!

;)

-Nam

The World's End! That movie was a crazy hoot of a ride. Anything with both Simon Pegg and Martin Freeman gets major awesome points, even if it is about drinking your way to the apocalypse. It was like, six degrees of separation from geek heaven: Star Trek meets Sherlock meets HGTTG. Every Armageddon should be this much fun.
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