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Chatter / Re: The American Flag
« Last post by stuffin on September 18, 2017, 09:12:02 AM »
It doesn't stand for anything, much like our President.  ;D

To get a really true answer you need to ask Colin Kaepernick.  ;D

I'm a vet and admire our the stars and stripes, I fly it from May-Memorial Day through November-Veterans Day.

The flag stands for everything good and everything bad regarding the USA.

Reviews / Re: Rate the Last Film You Saw
« Last post by Emma286 on September 18, 2017, 08:25:25 AM »
Saw part 1 of the new IT movie yesterday:

In some ways I liked it better than its corresponding original i.e. that they made the IT monster freakier, thought the actor playing Beverly Marsh's father was better at acting the part than the guy in the original, liked that certain sewer scenes revealed more about what happens to the IT monster's victims etc.

But on the other hand liked certain things about the original better I.e how each of the main characters are introduced both as adults and as children (the latter via flashback), I preferred Seth Green's portrayal of Richie, I found the Beverly character far more believable in terms of being the same age as her peers (while I generally liked the other Beverly portrayal I did feel that was one flaw about it, she struck me as being at least a couple of years older than the other kids she was supposed to be the same age as), and have the general impression (though I'd have to look back at the book again to be one hundred percent sure) it stuck to the book version of the story better than this one did.

Still, I really didn't find it bad at all - and an enjoyable enough watch. I liked it well enough to give it a 6.9 out of 10, and plan to watch the next part once it's released! Would also watch this again.
Chatter / Re: The American Flag
« Last post by screwtape on September 18, 2017, 07:36:48 AM »
What does it stand for?

Apple pie
Capitalism run amok
Melting pot
Build the wall!
Build the fuckin' wall already!
The Wild West
George Washington
Abraham Lincoln
Country music
Fox News
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Lunar landing
America, fuck yeah!
A once great nation
That maybe wasn't so great
Or, a deeply flawed nation that did some great things.
Chatter / Re: The American Flag
« Last post by jetson on September 18, 2017, 07:25:35 AM »
What does it stand for?

It is a symbol of the United States as a nation.

I have never had a strong emotional connection to the American flag. I have certainly seen plenty of flag lovers in my lifetime. I do understand how military members and veterans hold a special reverence to the flag. I've never put my life on the line for the United States. I don't know what that is like. But I feel that I can empathize with those who have (to a point.)

I will say this, we really, really need to stop making our youngest citizens recite a pledge every morning for their entire K-12 education. To me, that is pointless brainwashing at its finest, and has no place in a truly free country. There is nothing less free than forcing people to recite a pledge to a flag at an age when they have no idea what it is they are pledging. It's truly disgusting. I do realize that it is voluntary, but since our highest court has determined that a school cannot compel a student to stand or recite the pledge, I see absolutely no reason why it has not been removed from all schools permanently.

Anecdote: My young niece who was in kindergarten at the time, recited the pledge at a family gathering. At the end of the pledge, these were her words: "...with liberty and justice for all. You may now be seated." Think about that for a second. She did not realize that the last sentence is not a part of the pledge. How could she at that age? It's a great example of why this practice should be eliminated. Instead, teach about the flag and what it means, its history, etc., in a civics class to students at an age appropriate point so that they can understand and learn.
Chatter / Re: The American Flag
« Last post by Anfauglir on September 18, 2017, 05:32:57 AM »
Can a flag "stand" for anything?

It's a symbol of the country it represents - but as I've been discussing, a symbol is ascribed meaning by the person viewing it, so it is quite possible that a particular symbol (in this case a flag) will stand for different things depending on the viewer.

There is a case that a country's flag will "officially" stand for that country's government's current policies and legislation, though that's probably a bit vague for general terms.

It's a harder question to answer universally than it looks.
Chatter / Re: The American Flag
« Last post by shnozzola on September 18, 2017, 05:28:20 AM »
That's funny, I checked out forums in Japan, Kenya, Bolivia, Afghanistan, and Great Britain  this morning.  Their asking the same questions about their flags.   ;)
Chatter / Re: The American Flag
« Last post by One Above All on September 18, 2017, 03:32:12 AM »
From what I recall:
13 stripes for the 13 states that started the war for independence. 50 stars for the current 50 states.
Where the disagreement comes in is that the symbol has to keep itself within the orthodoxy of what the symbol represents. Unlike Christianity/Islam/Judaism, this isn’t a static religion. Paganism is allowed some forms of deviation as long as it does not stray from the orthodoxy in a way that changes the meaning of the orthodoxy. You can use a blue line like a traditionalist to ensure you mean a river crossing, but you can change the color from blue to red if that is what you desire to portray “river”. This change in orthodoxy is an acceptable change because you are not changing the meaning of the symbol. Now, if you were to change the symbol from a line to let’s say a circle, this would be an unacceptable deviation because you are changing the symbol to the point where it no longer has the traditional meaning it is supposed to have.

This is turn means that the deity's symbol/s are likely to change over time: if the important thing is the concept, then if from today a group begins to use the symbol of two sticks bound together to represent "river", then the deity must perforce thereafter include those bound sticks as one of its symbolic representations.  Indeed, if even one person begins to use a new symbol to represent a concept, then that symbol (to that person) is as relevant as another symbol used for millennia by millions.

I will agree with this as well. In addition, we do have evidence of these symbols changing over periods of time and given different aspects and attributes, but are acceptable because it did NOT deviate from it’s orthodoxy.

Okay, I need some clarification on this. 

Who "allows" the deviation from the orthodoxy?  Who determines whether a deviation is acceptable, or not?

The bulk of my response was centred on the point that a symbol has meaning for those who use it - thus, whatever a particular person uses as a symbol will be suitable for that person

99.99% of people will draw a blue line for a river.  If I draw a map, and use a line of red crosses to indicate a river - and my association of "line of red crosses" is identical to your association of "blue line" with the concept of "river", then do they not serve exactly the same purpose?
Chatter / Re: Explanations for why people experience god
« Last post by Anfauglir on September 18, 2017, 02:15:17 AM »
This is why eyewitness testimony is not usually reliable evidence in court, unless there are multiple witnesses - and even then, it is not necessarily accurate from those witnesses.

Experiments on sleep-deprived persons have shown that not only will they invent facts, but can very easily have facts "fed" to them by interviewers that subsequently become part of their "real" memories.
Chatter / The American Flag
« Last post by Mr. Blackwell on September 17, 2017, 10:37:41 PM »
What does it stand for?
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