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General Religious Discussion / Re: Hell and the end of life
« Last post by Foxy Freedom on Today at 04:18:12 PM »
Christ was a corresponding sacrifice for Adam. That is, of equal value.

So if Adam did not really exist, the equal value of a sacrifice for Adam would be zero, do'ncha think?

This idea of Saul just shows how early Christians were building delusion on ignorance. No divine inspiration, just mistake, after mistake, after mistake.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: JW visited
« Last post by nogodsforme on Today at 04:11:08 PM »
Jst, your numbers are wrong and misleading. You are comparing the absolute numbers of Witnesses today to what it was in the past, which does look like a big increase. But to be fair, you have to also looking at the percentage of Witnesses in the global population over time, not just the absolute numbers. The population increase since 1950 has been so much faster than any time before in history that I doubt any religion has kept pace.

For example, to simplify:
There are 200 cookies and 100 kids. Each kid gets 2 cookies. Later there are 1000 cookies--a huge increase, right? But now there are 2000 kids. Even though there has been a huge increase in the cookies, there are so many more kids that there is no way for each kid to get even 1 cookie apiece. Each kid now gets 1/2 of a cookie, like one bite. Per kid, the number of cookies has gone down, even though the absolute number of cookies has gone up. You can keep adding more cookies and you can still be lagging behind if the numbers of kids grows even faster.

What you did in your figures is just look at how the cookies increased (numbers of JW's increased from none to 8 million) without looking at how the real increase in population in recent years makes that number smaller. And you can't look at population as if it was a steady increase since 1870. To be accurate, you would have to look at JW's as a percentage of the total population since 1950, when population really took off. If the JW's have not kept pace with that rate of increase, they have been losing ground, even if the numbers of JW's has kept going up.

You can keep adding more and more cookies to the pile, but it makes no difference if you are not keeping up with the numbers of kids.

But I still gave you a darwin point for trying. You have to get some numbers out there before you can see whether what you think is right or are wrong. You are on your way to doing rational thinking, and that will be your downfall as a JW. If you want to hold onto your faith, you should probably avoid using numbers in the future. ;)
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By not responding it makes it appear as if you agree. -- Nam

See how that works? Also, if you can't put a rude guy like me in my place, if I am spouting falsities, then you will surely lack with anyone else.

-Nam
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The Bible also says there are things and people he hates, prayers he doesn't even listen to, and people he punishes harshly.  Morally good does not prevent him from rendering or allowing justice.

Ebola would be an example of Jehovah's hatred of impoverished babies in West Africa, his refusal to listen to the desperate prayers of their parents, or his punishment of these children for what must be the most horrible sins on the planet, then.

Or maybe just his absence and imaginary nature.

Which is it?

Jst, you make Jehovah sound like a dictator in the style of Kim Jung Il. Who wants to live in North Korea for all eternity? The handful of people who are friends of the dictator, that's who. North Korea is a paradise for them. It is a hell for the other 95% of the population.

You are not alone, Jst, many religious folks seem to see the world that way--most humans are too awful--we just cannot manage to follow the rules of the dictator, so we will never make it to heaven. And god, as supreme dictator, has the right to do whatever he wants to us. Punish people with death for celebrating the wrong holidays, having sex without being married, or for getting a blood transfusion during an operation.

It seems like such a backward way to think of humanity, when 95% of people are basically nice and trying to do the right thing. People screw up and make mistakes, but most don't want to. The only people who want to intentionally do harm to others are psychopaths or sociopaths. And you could argue that Jehovah God made them that way, without a conscience or empathy towards others.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Archbishop of Canterbury - doubt?
« Last post by eh! on Today at 03:29:49 PM »
^ I am that guy!!
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Quote from: YRM
Let's LOOK at those fking LOGICAL facts.

Here is one.  The Bible never teaches that Jehovah is omnibenevolent.

Two things...

1 - If you look at my post, I just said "good".
2 - Why just skip over ALL the rest?   The giant list of atrocities committed by "god" according to bronze age cave dwellers who owned slaves and owned their wives and daughters?
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Cue the Fresh Prince rap, "Parents just don't understand" with "Jehovah" substituted for "parents".... :angel:
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Archbishop of Canterbury - doubt?
« Last post by nogodsforme on Today at 03:05:02 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

A more contemporary version is the guy who, after his unwanted advances are rebuffed by a woman at a party or in a bar, tells everyone she is a lesbian. The best ending to this story is for the woman, lesbian or not, to come over and invite one of the guy's buddies to dance.  :D

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General Religious Discussion / Re: properties and politics of heaven
« Last post by nogodsforme on Today at 02:58:33 PM »
When I was in college, each full time class was worth 5 credits. So there was a joke that if you did a good deed you got 5 credits in heaven. I wonder what happens to all those credits, amassed in heaven over a lifetime. Do you ever get enough credits to graduate from heaven? Where do you go then? To an even better heaven?

It makes you wonder about the rules in heaven. Are there any moral guidelines, laws or instructions?
Like, no harp playing between 10pm and 6am.
No mocking the folks who are in the Scientology or Pastafarian heavens. Snicker.
No spying on the people in the Islamic paradise. They earned those 72 virgins, dammit.
No looking at Jehovah's nether regions. Brain bleach.
No gossiping about the people in hell. Even though they deserve it.
No robe, no sandals, no service.

Who enforces the rules? What happens when someone breaks the rules?

Seems to me there would have to be rules, and someone to enforce them in heaven. If there are no rules and nobody to enforce anything, heaven becomes what people often tell us an atheist world would be like-- a world without morality, without any rules, where anyone can do anything without any consequences. And that, people tell us, would be very bad.

Then people say, of course, that you don't need rules in heaven because nobody would want to do anything bad. But you won't want to do anything good in heaven, either. You don't need to do anything when everything is perfect. Which of course makes me wonder how it was that Satan and his followers decided to rebel in heaven, since everything was perfect and there was no need for rules. There must have been some rules, or there would have been nothing to rebel against![1]

What's to prevent someone from doing the rebellion against god thing again, and starting the whole mess over? Is heaven now a different, better, more secure and rebellion-proof place from the lousy, loosely constructed, flimsy makeshift heaven that Satan was thrown out of? Did god have a heavenly makeover? If heaven needed remodeling, it could not have been perfect in the first place, now could it? :?
 1. Perfect can only change in a negative direction, so a perfect heaven would not allow anything to change. A perfect heaven would not be full of people visiting other planets and learning Esperanto--or rebelling against god. It would be more like an opium den or a crack house, with everyone doing nothing but basking ecstatically in the stunning glory of the lord. For all eternity. Makes you wonder why anyone would bother.
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When you never respond to my posts, I start getting cynical. You don't want me going there, Jst. It gets ugly.

This has not been intentional.  I'll go back to your post.

Quote from: nam
He never responds to me, either.

This has been intentional.  You don't usually offer anything other than rude comments.  Examples:

Quote from: nam
Can you really count the brainwashed children?

-Nam

Quote from: nam
Yeah, it's pretty difficult to show an invisible sky daddy raping someone unless there's a book where it was written down in. But then just because it's in a book doesn't mean it's true...

-Nam

Quote from: nam
Don't forget the people they shun.

-Nam

Quote from: nam
That you are more moral than your god? Sure it does. Your god doesn't exist therefore, you are more moral than it.

Makes perfect sense. Unless you are delusional... oh...my bad.

-Nam

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey




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