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General Religious Discussion / Re: Jesus didn't pay for sins.
« Last post by jetson on Yesterday at 11:11:24 PM »
And as the Christians weep during the crucifixion scenes in The Passion, you ask them if they would rescue the Jesus character from his plight. You'll never get an unqualified yes, and more often than not, a no.

This calls all sorts of motives into question. They wouldn't lift a finger to save the person they claim to love the most from torture and "death". WTF? With friends like Christians, Jesus didn't need any enemies. I have to assume that at the same time the Christian weeps over the "sacrifice" of Jesus, they also have to have it in their mind that the whole thing is a job well done. It was all supposed to happen, right? It was all an act! Take a bow Jesus/god. High-Fives all around!

Obviously, if Christians are reluctant to hypothetically rescue Jesus from the crucifixion, the next question has to be "would you betray him if you saw that Judas was having second thoughts?" Would a Christian betray Jesus to the Romans? If they're not going to rescue him, why wouldn't they turn him in as well? They had better, or to paraphrase the soup nazi: "No salvation for you!"

They say the Jews killed Jesus, but it was Christians that had the vested interest in making certain Jesus died.

And all this pointless act just to keep heaven from being a ghost-town, so to speak.

Has to be one of the dumbest stories ever swallowed by the masses. Hollywood does a much, much better job with fiction, obviously.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Perfect humans
« Last post by natlegend on Yesterday at 11:10:14 PM »
They couldn't have been perfect going by the story. Perfect things couldn't do imperfect things. So, if by eating the fruit that was imperfect then they were never perfect anyway; but if they were perfect beings then anything they did, including eating the fruit was perfect and a perfect being punishing other perfect beings is nonsensical.

-Nam

I think you've nailed it. I think we would all agree that a perfect being cannot do anything imperfect - this argument gets wheeled out all the time by theists attempting to explain some of their god's more... unpalatable antics.

God curses mankind: it's perfect, so it's ok!
God advocates slavery and infanticide: it's perfect, so it's ok!
God kills practically every living thing on the planet: it's perfect, so it's ok!
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Perfect humans
« Last post by jetson on Yesterday at 11:08:58 PM »

Which in turn leads us back to, what is a perfect thing?

I don't think it matters. It will always be a subjective and elusive thing. Everyone gets to imagine, but our minds are cluttered by the grind of evolutionary clumsiness and imperfection. I remember looking at a dark pencil mark under a microscope - and I saw lots and lots of untouched white paper. As much as we want to learn, there will always be an unreachable "truth", I suppose.

Perfection - doesn't exist. Never will if you ask me.

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General Religious Discussion / Re: Jesus didn't pay for sins.
« Last post by 12 Monkeys on Yesterday at 11:07:25 PM »
The only way to save a fictional character(or kill him) is to write it that way. I wonder if Jews would kill Hitler..... No Hitler,no Christian guilt..... No Israel.

Um...Hitler wasn't the only problem. He was the catalyst, not the cause. antisemitism was in Germany (much of Europe, and elsewhere) for hundreds of years. Hitler may have taken the hatred a little too far for some Germans who were also antisemitic but that doesn't necessarily mean they disagreed with it.

Killing Hitler would have had an impact but may not have ended the camps, or the war.

-Nam
who knows if that is the case.....would they still take a chance and kill the catalyst?....much like a Christian May just still watch Jesus die rather than save him......if Jesus dies of old age.....no Christians.
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Religion In The News / Re: Starting a religion
« Last post by natlegend on Yesterday at 11:03:30 PM »
I get the feeling from the article though, that some (or many) of the people involved actually aren't religious, they've simply joined this new 'church' so they can avoid having to immunise their children.

A cursory glance over Australian law and a few brief sources leads me to believe that all I need to do to start my own religion is register it with the Australian Tax Office as such.

Who's in?
36
General Religious Discussion / Re: Perfect humans
« Last post by Nam on Yesterday at 11:01:09 PM »
They couldn't have been perfect going by the story. Perfect things couldn't do imperfect things. So, if by eating the fruit that was imperfect then they were never perfect anyway; but if they were perfect beings then anything they did, including eating the fruit was perfect and a perfect being punishing other perfect beings is nonsensical.

-Nam
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Perfect humans
« Last post by 12 Monkeys on Yesterday at 11:00:58 PM »
Interesting. How can one be perfect if one doesn't already posses the knowledge of right and wrong?

Perfect--for what purpose?  By what standard?  If Yahweh was looking for perfectly obedient minions (and I think that is quite clear throughout the Bible), then an independent conscience is not a part of "perfection," by that standard.  Of course, that leads to the question, "what does Yahweh need perfectly obedient human minions for?" for which I have yet to receive a coherent answer from a Christian.

why also create a universe so vast with one system with life? Maybe this God character has been terrorizing another group of beings he created for the last 2000 year. He sure in the hell has vanished from earth. God may actually be giving the 'aliens' info on how to travel space/time and anal probe earthlings and such. That's why he has been gone for 2000 years leaving Satan in charge
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Jesus didn't pay for sins.
« Last post by Nam on Yesterday at 10:58:02 PM »
The only way to save a fictional character(or kill him) is to write it that way. I wonder if Jews would kill Hitler..... No Hitler,no Christian guilt..... No Israel.

Um...Hitler wasn't the only problem. He was the catalyst, not the cause. antisemitism was in Germany (much of Europe, and elsewhere) for hundreds of years. Hitler may have taken the hatred a little too far for some Germans who were also antisemitic but that doesn't necessarily mean they disagreed with it.

Killing Hitler would have had an impact but may not have ended the camps, or the war.

-Nam
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Perfect humans
« Last post by natlegend on Yesterday at 10:53:46 PM »
Interesting. How can one be perfect if one doesn't already posses the knowledge of right and wrong?

Perfect--for what purpose?  By what standard? 

Hell, I don't know. What the fuck is 'perfection'? Really bummed there haven't been any theists here to give their opinion.

If Yahweh was looking for perfectly obedient minions (and I think that is quite clear throughout the Bible), then an independent conscience is not a part of "perfection," by that standard.  Of course, that leads to the question, "what does Yahweh need perfectly obedient human minions for?" for which I have yet to receive a coherent answer from a Christian.

Maybe he didn't need perfect 'minions', maybe by definition, a perfect being would only create perfect things?

Which in turn leads us back to, what is a perfect thing?
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General Religious Discussion / Re: Jesus didn't pay for sins.
« Last post by 12 Monkeys on Yesterday at 10:45:28 PM »
The only way to save a fictional character(or kill him) is to write it that way. I wonder if Jews would kill Hitler..... No Hitler,no Christian guilt..... No Israel.
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