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Chatter / Re: Sex allegations against Alabama candidate Roy Moore
« Last post by velkyn on Yesterday at 11:21:43 AM »
well, It seems that Moore lost.   It still means that 48% of the Alabamans who voted, still voted for a  very likely pedophile, a bigot, a liar and simply an idiot.

He is of course refusing to acknowledge he lost.   He has to believe that his god wouldn't abandon someone who picks and chooses the bible, eh?    Like the Daesh idiots, he has to believe that he is god's chosen, and I wouldn't wonder if we see some violence from Christians out of this. 
General Religious Discussion / Re: Christianity Elevates Women
« Last post by BibleStudent on Yesterday at 11:16:32 AM »
Wasn't 14 a pretty standard child bearing age at the time? What was the problem with her age?

Childbearing age =/= emotional or mental maturity needed to recognize, much less consent to invisible, threatening, baby ghost-daddy's coercive deal.

Coercive? threatening? What text are you reading?

The problem you, and all sceptics have, is one of selective and confused outrage. You are outraged when God does this, and God does that. But if you truly don't believe God exists, then what are you actually being critical of? A fictional character. It's like starting a thread about what a monster (insert your favourite fictional villain) is. Really, really pointless.

On the other hand, if God exists, His actions need to be considered in light of who He is. (and who we are).

You can't have it both ways. So which is it for you?

Good points here....especially the part I bolded.

What I would add to this is that I get the impression these criticisms of God are done with the intent to somehow demonstrate His non-existence which, frankly, is just poor fallacious reasoning. To charge God as mean, nasty, capricious, and immoral does not equal NO God. That is just an absurd angle to take which, again, is what seems to be the goal often when making these criticisms.

I am struggling with the idea of hell right now. Some of the material I have been reading makes a seemingly strong argument against the eternal state of hell that has been taught for so many years. That isn't really relevant to what you asked but felt that was worth mentioned, for whatever reason.

It is relevant to me because you mentioned "deciding" what is true or not. As opposed to *discovering* or *learning* what is true.

Okay. Good point.

Is it important to have the right beliefs?

Sure. I think we all strive to have confidence that our beliefs are at the very least rational. 

If you can develop a reliable means (scientific or otherwise) that can test for and provide physical evidence of God, I would say that you could probably open and operate the largest megachurch in the world  ;D

And more importantly, you could show which beliefs are right. Right? Which is, after all, a matter of eternal life or death.

You could produce evidence that may demonstrate a greater degree of right-ness, but an absolute certainty about whether something is 100% right or not is not always attainable in some areas. Wouldn't you agree?

I am not aware of any unresolved Christian related doctrines or beliefs that are a matter of eternal life or death. For example, an unresolved belief in Hell does not place anyone in jeopardy of making a decision or supporting a belief in this life that would determine their destiny. 

And, out of curiosity, do you think Kalam's cosmological argument counts as testable, repeatable, falsifiable evidence?

Maybe not in the same way that we practice the scientific method with nature but to a certain extent, I would be inclined to say yes, that it is open to testing and falsification.
Are you only struggling with the idea of hell?  Or are you struggling with the idea of heaven too?  Why struggle just with hell?  What is it about hell that is more of a struggle than heaven?

One subject at a time. Right now, it's the subject of hell. The information that was shared with me (and other information I have found) has cast some doubt on the nature of hell as has been adopted by most of Christianity.

Do you have something you'd like to share about Heaven that you feels challenges whatever beliefs you feel us Christians have about it?
If only 144,000 will make it to heaven, why would the JW keep knocking on doors?  Seems like they would be cutting down on their odds of being in the mix.

Not really. The whole point is that those who are saved will live on a reformed earth - one from which evil has been purged. This is what the JWs think of as heaven.Knocking on doors and trying to get new recruits does follow NT teaching about preaching to everyone.

Of course, if the JWs have it wrong and they are not teaching the gospel correctly - and many other denominations might think this - then they are just wasting time.... or maybe not... After all, everyone who they get to join brings cash and numbers into the religion and with its present financial crisis it needs every penny.
By all appearences, it seems to us that our dog looks after our cat. Since we haven't trained either of our pets, what is it in their brains that allows them to seem to be aware of their surroundings and care for each other?

What's in a brain? Did my dog act on it's own or was it something automatic? Are there any pets in heaven?

Good questions. Is there an evolutionary explanation that may explain this episode? It certainly sounds like the dog may have had an interest in protecting the cat but since animals cannot verbalize what their reasons or intent consisted of, we can never really know if your dog made a conscious decision to protect your cat or if the dog was just acting out of instinct....or, perhaps it was just an unusual coincidence. 

As for pets being in Heaven, I don't know. I hope so.
If only 144,000 will make it to heaven, why would the JW keep knocking on doors?  Seems like they would be cutting down on their odds of being in the mix.
General Religious Discussion / Re: Christianity Elevates Women
« Last post by Nick on Yesterday at 09:35:10 AM »
Well, I am sure he was shocked when he came back and discovered we all had not seen the light and converted.
Chatter / Re: Disorder
« Last post by velkyn on Yesterday at 09:34:42 AM »
Hmmm, what I’ve found he appears to not have directly said that we are going to hell, and he has said himself that he has not “directly” said anyone was going to hell (quite an equivocation).,13252.msg295862.html#msg295862
My answer is "NO"....the Bible does not contain any mistakes.,15098.msg341138.html#msg341138
“I do not judge God's morals. That is not meant to imply that I have never examined His expression of morality in certain matters, but I would never go so far as to say He is "wrong."”,15098.msg344160.html#msg344160

“God alone maintains the right to decide when it is necessary for a person, or even an entire race of people, to cease from existing. He knows the eternal result which you or I are incapable of knowing. God’s moral character operates on a much higher level for the simple fact that He has knowledge of the eternal outcome of His decisions…which is something we do not have.”,15098.msg345541.html#msg345541

“God's wrath is never anything to feel "good" about. In this scenario, I liken it to how I felt when my brother and I were growing up and one of my parents was administering some discipline on my brother. It was not a pleasant thing to witness, but it was necessary. I did not judge my parents (the same way I would not judge God) for doing what was within their rights.”

The above was a response to a post by Jynnan about hell. 

I will retract my words and I am sorry that I said that BS has directly said that everyone but him deserves hell.  I do think a good argument can be made that he has in fact believed this in the past, if not now, and he certainly believed that whatever his god chooses to do is perfectly fine, no matter what.  A belief that this god deserves to murder people *or* torture them for eternity are very little different in my opinion, but one’s mileage may vary. 

Are you only struggling with the idea of hell?  Or are you struggling with the idea of heaven too?  Why struggle just with hell?  What is it about hell that is more of a struggle than heaven?

As far as I know the JW position on this is that there are only going to be 144,000 people in heaven with the rest of the 'righteous' people living on a reformed earth after Armageddon. The 'unrighteous' are just dead for ever so there is no belief in hell.

I would love to start a conversation on the topic of hell and am researching the topic before  posting in a separate thread. 
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