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General Religious Discussion / Re: velkyn, strong atheism
« Last post by albeto on December 06, 2016, 12:30:41 PM »

I would ask; what nuance would warrant the use of the qualifier strong in a conversation with a theist where the term anti-theism does not work better? 

I can only assume from your deflection that you recognize that when those nuances occur (whether or not you understand why they occur), the use of the qualifier "strong," is appropriate to use. This is what makes your entire argument moot, and reveals an incomprehension about this whole issue that I suspect you still don't recognize. You came into a conversation where those nuances have already been accepted, and tried to rally atheists to drop qualifiers like strong and weak altogether (except, apparently, when they are warranted like jeton suggests, but not really because you would choose other words - like antitheist - yourself). The purpose of such an approach seems to me to reveal either an unwillingness or inability to functionally comprehend the subtle differences, but rather than pursue this line of thinking, your efforts have continued to encourage people to drop it altogether.

Furthermore, strong atheism and antitheism are not synonymous. While they may be very closely related, they do refer to different things. I think you're simply confused and you assume it's because this is a confusing issue in general, for all or most people. Despite people explaining the subtle and not so subtle differences between these terms, you seem rather focused on persuading others to remove them altogether from conversations in general which is not only illogical, but untenable and unreasonable.

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I'm not trying to rewrite the ten commandments albeto.  I do not dictate conditions.  Who the hell do you think I am?  :laugh: :laugh:

Why you would equate definitions of words and concepts with the ten commandments suggests to me further incomprehension about the differences, not to mention how words are identified, used, and accepted in the modern lexicon. The analogy/joke is completely off the mark. It simply doesn't make sense. I think you might benefit from holding off trying to help people, as you've mentioned is your intent, and wait until you have a better idea about what these terms actually mean.

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I lack belief that Yahweh exists.  You can't be a prick if you don't exist. 

The golden rule has been around since before the bible.  Not everybody wants to be treated like I do.  Maybe we should treat people the way they want to be treated unless they like violence. 

You are [absolutely] using the bible.

Indeed.

It is hard to analyze the morals of an imaginary Yahweh without using that book of myths.

Regards
DL

I reckon I'm not understanding how you conclude something is imaginary while simultaneously being evil.  Would it not be the authors that are evil?  OR maybe just terribly wrong?

I understand the situation but fail to see the problem.

Surely you can read a fairy tale and decide whether the characters are moral or not, regardless of their reality or not. That is why we teach children fairy tales and use analogies to make a point.

Most have no problem with this as shown by this quote.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
? Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Regards
DL

 


33
Religion & Society / Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Last post by Add Homonym on December 06, 2016, 09:19:43 AM »
Being generous towards other people is virtuous.  Putting other people on top of your own family or fellow citizens isn't.

I suppose the good Samaritan didn't take the Jew home, but dumped him with Jews, and paid for the inn.

I suppose also that the Syrians aren't our enemy, so loving them would not gain any profit (cf Matt 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?)

It's good that we have John as the arbiter of what constitutes Christianity. We would be lost without his compartmentalization.
I noticed your main argument tactic matches your user name, except it's misspelled.  Ad hominem

Ad Hominem is where you say someone is a pedophile, or idiot, to win an argument. I already won the argument, so any ad hominem comes gratis.
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Religion & Society / Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Last post by Add Homonym on December 06, 2016, 09:16:47 AM »
Black, thank you for your thoughtful response.
I have gone through some fun life experiences, things like almost getting eaten alive in Papua nugini, almost lost my arm due to a mysterious infection in Malesia,,,etc.  I am 70 years old now and have gone through some fun adventures but I believe my lord has kept me alive for his purpose.
Refugees don't scare me Black, not at all.  If I had real fear for my life or safety due to refugees, I would honestly leave the country.  Just like some celebrity wanna-bes promised but never kept.

As a Christian and the Lord's servant, my first and foremost duty is to live my life for Him and secondly, live my life for other people.
You obviously know "sins of omission" right?  When I know my fellow citizens are in danger due to undocumented refugees, the least thing I can do with my power and ability is to vote for someone who is against it.
I don't know how much truth is in real danger of Syrian refugee crisis, some say they are dangerous people by showing us examples in Europe and Germany.  Maybe it's true or maybe not.
If I know there is a slightest chance that my fellow American could be in harms way, I am not going to support that agenda.  That is not "loving your neighbor".


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That is not "loving your neighbor".

That's Jewish law. Christianity moved past America, it's birthplace, and was extended to enemies, and indeed frenemies. Did you get the memo?

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I am 70 years old

I see, so you can't change your opinion on any topic, because it's too late.

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If I know there is a slightest chance that my fellow American could be in harms way, I am not going to support that agenda.

How do you balance that decision against other harms that Trump seems to want to do to the health/education system? Is it more important to keep a few fellow Americans safe from terrorists, or keep them safe from incompetent health/drug and occupational health and safety? Do you consider any other negative aspects of Trump, or is Trump just completely positive?

That's the impression we get from you. You don't seem to acknowledge that Trump has any flaws, and even seem to love his debauchery, and exploitation of women.

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Religion & Society / Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Last post by John 3 16 on December 06, 2016, 09:14:31 AM »
My convenience? How does my life become more convenient without Syrian refugees.
Yeah, put your family's lives ahead of others first, then we will talk.

[46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
[47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Should I report you for preaching or not? Christians Atheists these days...
36
Religion & Society / Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Last post by John 3 16 on December 06, 2016, 09:13:27 AM »
Being generous towards other people is virtuous.  Putting other people on top of your own family or fellow citizens isn't.

I suppose the good Samaritan didn't take the Jew home, but dumped him with Jews, and paid for the inn.

I suppose also that the Syrians aren't our enemy, so loving them would not gain any profit (cf Matt 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?)

It's good that we have John as the arbiter of what constitutes Christianity. We would be lost without his compartmentalization.
I noticed your main argument tactic matches your user name, except it's misspelled.  Ad hominem
37
Religion & Society / Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Last post by John 3 16 on December 06, 2016, 09:08:09 AM »
You need to do more to inform yourself. This hypothetical child didn't need to hear this from his father. All over the country, there have been reports of children bullying their classmates with overtly racist rhetoric, citing Trump's win in the election.
Here is the video.
He said his kids were at the ages of 4, 5, 6.
You can jump to 3:00 mark if you are in a hurry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ0oCYKY7W0

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And one common thread in these reports is that many of the students are being told that now that Donald Trump won, "you're going to have to leave."
Who is "you" in Trump's speech? legal American Muslims? or illegal immigrants? You are right about "students are being told" part.  They are being brain washed at college campuses by liberals.
What kind of teacher gives extra credit for protesting political candidate?

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Donald J. Trump is calling for a complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.

We have no choice. We have no choice.
That was part of his immigration plan, not legal Americans coming back to the US.  Come on man! Are you serious?

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In addition to his initial iteration of the Muslim ban, he's proposed deporting the citizen children of undocumented immigrants. He's also proposed rendering US citizens that burn the flag stateless.
Here's what I wanted to talk about.  Twisting and turning of the actual statement.  No one can deport legal citizen, no one.  Not even president.
I think Trump was asked by a news anchor that if illegal immigrants get deported, how about their children who were born in the US? something like that.  Naturalized citizens are legal Americans, if their parents needed to leave the country, the children could either stay in the US with other relative's help or I am sure government will take care of them, or the parents could take the children with them.

Timo, like I mentioned earlier, if I were a illegal immigrant and were facing deportation, and I had little children who need my care, I would take them with me.  What is so bad about going back to where I come from?
Is America heaven and Mexico is hell?
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Religion & Society / Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Last post by Add Homonym on December 06, 2016, 09:01:10 AM »
My convenience? How does my life become more convenient without Syrian refugees.
Yeah, put your family's lives ahead of others first, then we will talk.

[46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
[47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

39
Religion & Society / Re: Hello, atheists who did you vote for?
« Last post by Add Homonym on December 06, 2016, 08:59:24 AM »
Being generous towards other people is virtuous.  Putting other people on top of your own family or fellow citizens isn't.

I suppose the good Samaritan didn't take the Jew home, but dumped him with Jews, and paid for the inn.

I suppose also that the Syrians aren't our enemy, so loving them would not gain any profit (cf Matt 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?)

It's good that we have John as the arbiter of what constitutes Christianity. We would be lost without his compartmentalization.
40
General Religious Discussion / Re: velkyn, strong atheism
« Last post by junebug72 on December 06, 2016, 04:38:59 AM »


A new thread has been started.

I saw. Thanks. Care to answer my question pertinent to this thread? I've asked a number of times but it seem to have gotten lost. I'll repeat for clarity.

Does your agreement with jetson include the condition that when and if the nuances in the conversation warrant the use of the qualifier "strong," it is appropriate then to do so?

I would ask; what nuance would warrant the use of the qualifier strong in a conversation with a theist where the term anti-theism does not work better? 

I'm not trying to rewrite the ten commandments albeto.  I do not dictate conditions.  Who the hell do you think I am?  :laugh: :laugh:
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