Recent Posts

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10
21
General Religious Discussion / Re: A Hypothetical for Christians
« Last post by CrystalDragon on Yesterday at 06:56:16 PM »
Forgot to ask, jdawg, is it alright with you if I repost this question on the Christian Forums?  I want to see how others respond to it.
22
General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by eh! on Yesterday at 06:38:57 PM »
You are at risk of a good smiting for questioning my moral authority.

My objective yardstick is bigger than yours pal.
23
General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by Azdgari on Yesterday at 06:35:31 PM »
OK I judge god by my moral authority, if that's not good enough I invoke the moral authority of Zeus.

Now what?

Yeah, this.  If we're going to say that Eh!'s moral authority isn't adequate in some way, then that means that we need an objective yardstick to measure moral authority by.
24
General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by eh! on Yesterday at 05:45:50 PM »
OK I judge god by my moral authority, if that's not good enough I invoke the moral authority of Zeus.

Now what?
25
General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by BibleStudent on Yesterday at 05:25:50 PM »
Folks-

We are going to go around in one big continuous loop until someone can provide a moral standard that God is subject to. We are talking about the Creator of the reality we exist in....not some super supreme human being who we can rationally  anthropomorphise into such for the purposes of judging. If we are all light years less knowledgeable and less wise than God (as the Bible says), then we are most likely incapable of seeing how any actions He takes are completely in line with ultimate good. 

If God does exist and you continue to judge Him absent an authority to do so, you are denying actual reality and that is a mark of insanity.
26
General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by YouCantHandleTheTruth on Yesterday at 04:20:43 PM »
Can someone explain what moral authority actual means.I get morals and I get authority but I don't get what they mean together.

Legal authority makes semantic sense so does moral conviction, but moral authority????

Help a bro out here.

Moral authority dictates what is absolutely right or wrong, good or bad. In the atheist world, there is no such thing as a moral authority because in order for it to have authority it would have to transcend what we view as right or wrong in order to determine whether it really is right or wrong. That is what makes an atheist's judgment of God seem absurd to me. An atheist judging a God they do not believe in based on stories in the Bible is the equivalent of simple literary criticism. There can be no basis from which you can judge God because your morals are based on personal preference which results from molecules-in-motion.

It's one thing to wonder about and question what we perceive as wrong or bad but it is entirely something else when we apply our own human standards to judge the Being that Created us. It's just absurd I tell ya. We have no authority to do so.

OK but we're judging this God we don't believe in only as an exercise to explain to you why we don't believe.  We also believe that the Bible was written by men with their own agendas, and not inspired by God.  But, if we put ourselves in a hypothetical situation and argue that the Bible is the only word of God, then I still actually feel we do have the right to judge this God.  It doesn't matter that he created us.  I don't perceive that as a reason to give him carte blanche in every situation.  Why should it?  That appears to be the sticking point here.  He created us - so what?  It doesn't make him perfect.  If we're cloning animals, it doesn't mean we can do no wrong with these animals just because we created them.

Put yourself in our shoes.  What if someone from another religion presents their holy text to you and says this is the God you should believe in.  If you read through that text and don't believe in what is told there, wouldn't you question that God?  Yet, the believer in that God would say to you "You have no authority to judge our God like that.  This is the correct one, and what he says goes, period."  That's what is going on here.

27
General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by YRM_DM on Yesterday at 04:15:55 PM »
Moral authority dictates what is absolutely right or wrong, good or bad. In the atheist world, there is no such thing as a moral authority because in order for it to have authority it would have to transcend what we view as right or wrong in order to determine whether it really is right or wrong. That is what makes an atheist's judgment of God seem absurd to me. An atheist judging a God they do not believe in based on stories in the Bible is the equivalent of simple literary criticism. There can be no basis from which you can judge God because your morals are based on personal preference which results from molecules-in-motion.

It's one thing to wonder about and question what we perceive as wrong or bad but it is entirely something else when we apply our own human standards to judge the Being that Created us. It's just absurd I tell ya. We have no authority to do so.

There's no absolute moral authority in a Christian world view because, as you've said even in other posts, God can make exceptions to his own mandates.

- Thou Shall Not Murder?
- Um... go murder those unarmed women and children captives.

- Thou Shall Not Steal?
- There are some young virgins over there, go steal them and assign them as wives.

- Golden Rule?  Do unto others?
- I don't like King David conducting that census... I'm going to plague 70,000 other people.

- Human sacrifice is wrong?
- Just kidding Abraham, I was just testing you.

Bible Student... if you claim absolute moral authority comes from God, please respond to this and list morals/dictates/laws that God sets down that he never violates or orders people to violate.

And also explain how people could be sure that prophets were actually speaking for God... maybe they hadn't gotten anything wrong "yet" or gotten caught as a false prophet "yet".

The only absolute moral I can see that is consistent in the Bible is to blindly obey anyone who claims to be speaking for God, provided they don't get any predictions incorrect (that's how you tell).

Explain to me a list of how people should act... from God... that God has never violated or ordered to be violated?

Explain how you know "Yahweh" is the good guy in the story?    How is blindly obeying what you hope was correctly translated from what you hope was a prophet different than German people blindly obeying orders that they thought came from Hitler?

What I mean is... Christians claim an absolute moral high ground... a standard that atheist's don't have... but you can't demonstrate or list or show that standard in any way.

Simply claiming you have an absolute moral authority to stand on doesn't make that claim correct.
28
General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by eh! on Yesterday at 04:13:07 PM »
As far as any human knows all discussion of the bible is literary criticism. It fails at history, science, archeology..... what other genre is it than literature?

Your definition of moral authority does not explain why morals exist so of course it sounds absurd when you attribute morals to a fictional being that is demonstrably immoral.
29
General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by jdawg70 on Yesterday at 03:54:26 PM »
Thought exercise for you BibleStudent:
What moral authority can you cite that is applicable to a rock, assuming the rock exists?

Are rocks capable of understanding right and wrong and making choices between right and wrong?
As far as I know they are not capable of that.

Can you think of why a question of 'moral authority' requires an entity capable of making choices between right and wrong?
30
General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by BibleStudent on Yesterday at 03:53:02 PM »
Can someone explain what moral authority actual means.I get morals and I get authority but I don't get what they mean together.

Legal authority makes semantic sense so does moral conviction, but moral authority????

Help a bro out here.

Moral authority dictates what is absolutely right or wrong, good or bad. In the atheist world, there is no such thing as a moral authority because in order for it to have authority it would have to transcend what we view as right or wrong in order to determine whether it really is right or wrong. That is what makes an atheist's judgment of God seem absurd to me. An atheist judging a God they do not believe in based on stories in the Bible is the equivalent of simple literary criticism. There can be no basis from which you can judge God because your morals are based on personal preference which results from molecules-in-motion.

It's one thing to wonder about and question what we perceive as wrong or bad but it is entirely something else when we apply our own human standards to judge the Being that Created us. It's just absurd I tell ya. We have no authority to do so.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10