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General Religious Discussion / Re: Why Did Jesus Weep?
« Last post by Graybeard on Today at 06:50:52 AM »

This is not a problem at all. It is answered by the next words.

Jesus wept, and the jews said "he loved him so much".

The author is emphasising how important Lazarus is to Jesus. Lazarus is the disciple who Jesus loved. Now turn to the end of John. "It is this disciple who attests what has been written here. In fact he wrote it."

The author is talking about himself and wants to say how important he is. In other words Lazarus/John has written a fake eyewitness account of Jesus to impress other Christians. He told them exactly what they wanted to hear. He was also a deluded megalomaniac who put himself at the centre of the story.

You might wonder how Lazarus got away with this. An analysis of the place names in John shows that he did come from the area of Jerusalem before it was destroyed and he seems to have heard a few stories about Jesus. By the time he wrote John he was a refugee and an old man so no one could refute him. What better way to establish yourself in a new area than to tell gullible christians that you were a disciple of Jesus and tell them exactly what they want to hear.
I suppose that I have to ask, "If Lazarus were dead, how did he know what was happening around him at the time between his death and his own resurrection?"

Both the OT and the NT support killing people for their sexuality, do you think the bible is wrong? Do you think the writers of the NT misunderstood Jesus?

That is not the topic.  The topic was Christian behavior and the instructions given to them.


Yes I am dodging your red herring.
As the topic is Christian behavior and the instructions given to them. And they are instructed to kill people [in public] for their sexuality, and they do not do this, does this not give you a point to answer?

I say this as Foxy Freedom may believe that ignoring God's Law is as much a sin as disobeying it.

I know you are busy but the answer should not take you more than one line as there is at least one verse that covers it.

GB Mod
General Religious Discussion / Re: ground zero cross can stay
« Last post by Azdgari on Today at 06:42:24 AM »
It's a piece of rubble.  And a lot of people feel strongly about it.  Just let the damned thing stay.
Show us that the big IF is really true and we will believe you!

If something can be proven, then you don't have to believe it  - it just is. And then you know it. Not reasonable to ask for proof of the unprovable.

(Sorry, have to go to bed now...)

It's far less reasonable to add an additional "mystery" and call it an explanation. "Goddidit" is not an answer, it's a cop-out.
Initial reaction upon clicking that link ... holy excrement! There's a guy called Dalek!
No ... wait ... DaRek.
Sad now.

#2: The fine-tuning of physical constants for life
– there are over 100 examples of constants that must be selected within a narrow range in order for the universe to support the minimal requirements for life
– example: mass density
– example: strong nuclear force (what he studies)
– example: carbon formation

#3: The fine-tuning of our planet for habitability
– the type of galaxy and our location in it
– our solar system and our star
– our planet
– our moon

I've not been on the board for a while, but I'm up for having a formal debate with dennis to show how the fine-tuning argument for god is a load of old bollocks.
because you don't know how the ears were restored you call it a miracle from god - me, I would just say I don't know how they were healed.

you have created god from your own ignorance.

that's degrading to yourself and to your god.
But atheism isn't a choice. Its a realization.
I am going to read that as a one-liner, and that you are not actually serious. Unless we have different definitions of choice?
This is indeed how many people come to atheism.  It is not some deliberate decision to deny a god they believe in.  It is a realization that their beliefs are false.

When you realize a belief you hold is false, then you've already changed your mind.  There is no conscious choice involved.  All that remains is acknowledging, or denying, that the change has occurred.
Show us that the big IF is really true and we will believe you!

If something can be proven, then you don't have to believe it  - it just is. And then you know it. Not reasonable to ask for proof of the unprovable.

(Sorry, have to go to bed now...)

You say you know there is a god. That's great! We would be very interested if you could demonstrate this. The trouble is, as parkingplaces has pointed out, none of the usual subjects for gods have apparently had any activity for the last 1,400 - 2,000 years. It seems to us here that -

1. gods don't answer prayers

2. Perform miracles (though they were happy to do so back in stone age times)

3. Take any other part in the lives of believers.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am happy to accept that you believe in a  god. The difference is that I think that god exists in your sub-conscious brain - even is your sub-conscious brain. If ideas pop into your mind as they might when praying, that is the work of your sub-conscious brain not a god with a separate existence.

Still, I don't expect you to accept this so I have some questions for you, Dennis.

a. In what way do you think your god interacts with you?

b. Do you think your god answers prayers - if so give us some examples.

God does perform miracles. Here is my example

Unfortunately, since we don't know before hand, it is hard to set up a study that properly controls for the effects and 'prove' it.

You may argue that it happened in my mind, and that may well be. Probably is. Because it has to happen somehow/somewhere.

As I tried to say in my post, probably not articulated well, is that the miracles that God works are done through His Creation.

E.g he doesn't turn a stork into jumbo, but He can find a way for that plane to land on the water on not kill anyone. YOu say it is pilot skill, I say it is God working through the pilot. You know what I mean?

Or diabetes can be cured or arthritis healed 'naturally' simply be reducing or increasing 'something' (certain types of chemicals like insulin) which naturally occur to counter the disease when medical science suggests that it really shouldn't have happened. A job can be found - through unexpected connections.

Growing back limbs is not a natural process for humans and so that does not happen. You see we believe God made the universe and those laws that keep it together and won't happen.

And yes, God resides in my mind. How else must I connect with God? He made my mind... and that is how he relates to me? Surely you don't expect me to show you a little Goblin or a packet of spaghetti or something? ;D

Hope that is a reasonable coverage of your questions.
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