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11

General Religious Discussion / Re: Don't expect an atheist president anytime soon

« Last post by jdawg70 on Today at 10:04:20 AM »

The resurrection of Osiris can be found in dozens of books.  I don't understand how holybuckets can deny the clear evidence that it happened.

Good side-step.
I have made a claim and presented evidence. Your claim does nothing to refute mine. Osiris is irrelevant in proving/disproving Jesus resurrection as found in the Bible.

The bible is a lie.  My evidence: http://www.timecube.com.

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General Religious Discussion / Re: What Would It Take For You To Change Your View?

« Last post by magicmiles on Today at 10:01:57 AM »

Yet all of this theological mumbo jumbo is a red herring to this discussion. And what more is there to talk about if you aren't even willing to admit that you could be wrong regarding this assumed interpretation you have made?

Read my first post in the thread. I addressed the OP. The conversation just went on from there, as it does.

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General Religious Discussion / Re: What Would It Take For You To Change Your View?

« Last post by magicmiles on Today at 09:59:47 AM »

No No No No! Hell is a fucking terrible thing. How could you possibly not get that, from all I've said? Why did Jesus come and suffer it in our place, if not for the fact it's terrible?

I believe it's a reality. That doesn't make it a good, desirable or pleasant reality. What you're clearly not willing to contemplate is why it should even be a reality.

Oh, I contemplate it.  But I have no understanding at all of why it WOULD be a reality, assuming that your god is both loving, and desiring that we are saved.

Justice. God can't let sin go unpunished. Hard to grasp, impossible if you are of the no free will mindset.

[/quote]

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General Religious Discussion / Re: Don't expect an atheist president anytime soon

« Last post by Graybeard on Today at 09:59:37 AM »

Wrong, the claim of the resurrection can be found outside the Bible as well. The claim is the resurrection.

The claim that Harry Potter flies on a broomstick can be found in "Harry Potter and the Philosophers' Stone" but it is not only found there, it is found in Companion Books: http://hpcompanion.com/chapterbychapter/.

Not only that, but there have been reviews by many trusted and independent writers in newspapers and critics on TV!

"The claim of flying on broomsticks can be found outside "Harry Potter and the Philosophers' Stone" as well. The claim is flying on broomsticks."

Now, I hope you see that your argument fails. You have swallowed the Bible, hook, line and sinker. You believe, in the first place, that the Bible is true. For anyone else looking at it, it would need some proof that it is true.

First you will be able to explain why the Gospel of Mark - the original gospel that the others copied - has no mention of the resurrection.

Next, the sources that you will quote are not reliable. You will find that in all cases, the writer is reporting what someone else told him - none of the writers saw Jesus and none of them witnessed any miracles and none of them saw a man who had come back from the dead. All reports were written after Christ's alleged crucifixion.

The main writers around at the time, were numerous. There was trouble in Jerusalem and many writers went there but despite a man who could control storms, walk on water, cured the deaf, blind and lame and feed 9000 people with loves and fish, and despite the allegation that when he died (temporarily) the sky went dark, and dead bodies rose from their graves and walked about, not one Roman or Jew saw fit to report these amazing happenings!

How likely is that?

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General Religious Discussion / Re: What Would It Take For You To Change Your View?

« Last post by magicmiles on Today at 09:57:24 AM »

Not at all. I believe that my sense of justice, right and wrong exist because I was created in God's image.  ...

That is not what the Bible says.  It says we were created ignorant of right and wrong, good and evil.  That knowledge is what we gained (in the story) when Eve and Adam ate from the Tree of Knowledge (of good and evil).  That's kind of the point of the story, no?

Clearly, you don't believe everything in the Bible to be truth.

The bible clearly teaches we were created in God's image. Truth be told, its always confused me somewhat why the tree was called by God the 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil'. I have no answer to that. However, it seems pretty clear to me that however you take the strory, literally or not, the clear teaching is that mankind failed its first test of obedience and this caaused death to enter the world.  Seems harsh. True.

That doesn't alter the fact that my sense of good, evil and justice is a reflection of ultimate versions of those things.

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General Religious Discussion / Re: What Would It Take For You To Change Your View?

« Last post by Tonus on Today at 09:52:33 AM »

If hell is a truly terrible place, and god agonizes over the thought of any of his creation suffering there, it is within his power to change that.  The only restraints on god are those which he imposes upon himself.  If hell exists and is an awful place where people are tormented and this is objectionable even to god, he's the only one with the power to change that.  Trying to place the responsibility for that on the shoulders of people who did not create it or write the rules is backwards.  The only reason to take that point of view is to try and harmonize the existence of such a place with a being who personifies love and compassion.

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General Religious Discussion / Re: Competition for anybody: make Genesis fit a real scenario

« Last post by Add Homonym on Today at 09:49:37 AM »

I think Samothec came pretty close. All it needs is an extra time travel jump, to inform Moses of what happened.

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General Religious Discussion / Re: Why is Murder Wrong? I need evidence...

« Last post by Tonus on Today at 09:47:53 AM »

He declared victory already.  No need for him to address the arguments brought against his position, now.  I mean, he has declared victory...that's all we need, right?

It reads like just another angle on the argument that without an objective moral guide, such as god, humans cannot coexist in an orderly or civilized manner.  I will never understand how they can make that argument with a straight face, when the morals of just about every religion have changed over time.  And for many religions, their god or gods are absolved of any moral guilt by virtue of their station.  Is there any religion that truly teaches that there is a set of objective morals?  None of the major ones seem to.

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Chatter / Re: OK storms

« Last post by neopagan on Today at 09:47:29 AM »

wright - Claiming your god is all-powerful but somehow not responsible for (or powerless to prevent) bad things from happening is baffling to me. It was a major stumbling block when I was a Christian; I couldn't resolve it so I ignored it as much as possible. I suspect that's how most believers deal with it.

I agree... in my believer days I wore the same sort of blinders; god got credit for the goodies but a pass on the baddies.  As a matter of fact, I'd say some pre-programmed line about "the world is bad because of the fall" - never making the next logical leap that skygod orchestrated all the nonsesne as a setup to begin with.

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General Religious Discussion / Re: Don't expect an atheist president anytime soon

« Last post by holybuckets on Today at 09:45:27 AM »

The resurrection of Osiris can be found in dozens of books.  I don't understand how holybuckets can deny the clear evidence that it happened.

Good side-step.
I have made a claim and presented evidence. Your claim does nothing to refute mine. Osiris is irrelevant in proving/disproving Jesus resurrection as found in the Bible.