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General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by BibleStudent on Yesterday at 09:13:22 PM »
this is quite...bizarre.   How is an adaptation "true" or false"?   considering that there is nothing to show that every thing is an illusion, and plenty not (place your bare hand in molten steel), it's a rather silly argument.

Well, velkyn, for once we agree on something....at least in the sense that when you first hear this, it does seem bizarre. However, it has received a tremendous amount of attention and as I indicated earlier in the thread, some learned non-theists grant a certain level of validity to it. Both theists and non-theists have taken exception to certain elements of it which has led to varying versions and refinement but it does maintain some genuine backbone. I have taken the time to really explore it and have read many of the attempts at refutation. Believe it or not, even I found some shortcomings in different versions of the argument but at least for now I find it rather compelling. I will share the video that helped me to at least get a grasp on the basic argument that led me to dig deeper and be able to consider the implications it presents:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uizZhrX1C6A

It is not a new argument. It has appeared in different forms by C.S. Lewis, Victor Reppert, J.P Moreland, and most recently by Alvin Plantinga.

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The request to provide physical evidence of a non-physical deity is a logical category error.

BS, what evidence would you need to believe in any one of the other gods that humans claim is as real as yours?

I have not studied every religion known to man but I have studied the major religions to a degree. For me, Christianity offers the most unifying and best evidenced. There is a cohesiveness to it that brings together all of the "why" and "how" questions most of us ask about the reality we share. That's it in a nutshell.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by 12 Monkeys on Yesterday at 09:10:25 PM »
For every Part a theist doesnt believe in the writings,they dismiss without thought. As an example why would a God not be inclusive to all peoples instead of one small group? This small group exploits the Messiah to the tune of billions of dollars in aid yearly because someone they refuse to believe is a Messiah needs a kingdom to return to,and Christian followers ACTUALLY BELIEVE the clown is coming back.

 A fool and his money are soon parted,just ask Joel Osteen. Who would have thought the con would last 2000+ years
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General Religious Discussion / Re: What's you're answer?
« Last post by Add Homonym on Yesterday at 09:10:00 PM »
Is the title of this thread a very clever linguistic pun?
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General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by Add Homonym on Yesterday at 08:55:16 PM »
I agree that we appear to be rational beings. No argument there. That is not the point. The problem for you is that the process of evolution does not select based on whether an adaptation is true or false (it is oblivious to that), so us humans end up believing a lot of false things even though they still help us survive and adapt. That means your belief that we are rational beings has a low probability of being true....and, if that is the case (as probability would suggest), you have nothing to ground rationality in and must consider the real possibility that everything that you think you believe is true is just an illusion.

You are still shooting yourself in the foot. Religion is argued to be one of these false beliefs, that may or may not help us survive, but has certainly occupied a position in the brains of people who need to believe that there is an easy magical point to it all.

If you carry on with shooting yourself in the foot, you may be required to bring a crutch much better than your religion. Perhaps another person with a better argument.

Can you give examples of how your irrational brain has fooled you into believing parts of your religion?
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General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by velkyn on Yesterday at 08:31:49 PM »
The problem for you is that the process of evolution does not select based on whether an adaptation is true or false (it is oblivious to that), so us humans end up believing a lot of false things even though they still help us survive and adapt. That means your belief that we are rational beings has a low probability of being true....and, if that is the case (as probability would suggest), you have nothing to ground rationality in and must consider the real possibility that everything that you think you believe is true is just an illusion.

this is quite...bizarre.   How is an adaptation "true" or false"?   considering that there is nothing to show that every thing is an illusion, and plenty not (place your bare hand in molten steel), it's a rather silly argument. 

The request to provide physical evidence of a non-physical deity is a logical category error.

BS, what evidence would you need to believe in any one of the other gods that humans claim is as real as yours?
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Get help, and then come back here.  You can have healthy interactions.  But you 've got to listen to people and not take everything as an attack.  If your current counselor isn't working out, then find another.  My husband had to try a couple until he found someone he could work with, and it took a while to get a good diagnosis, ultra rapid cycling bipolar disorder.  In my experience, you have some of the symptoms as he does when off his meds.  As I've said, you've often given great comments here. 

I did not claim anybody said abortion was the only way out of poverty.  I said; "you make it sound like" and that was sarcasm.   That sarcasm was explained in the same post.  The 5 women I know are still poor as fuck.
You have no idea what sarcasm is. JB.  It is not making false claims about others.  And again, you try very hard to repeat your nonsense, by mentioning how poor these women are.   
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I have asked for quotes of these false claims I have made and none have been provided.
That has already been done. Again and again and again.  It doesn't work to repeat a request that has already been satisfied, as if you think people will believe that it hasn't.  As you'll see, I did a bit down below just in case it might help.
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I did not guess that mental illness is related to abortion.  That is lived experience.  Just like a fisherman can tell you a worm coils when you put it on the hook.  Something you might not know if you have never fished with worms.  That was not an accident.  I knew it.  It's a fact in my life.  I am in the majority of 75%  of women seeking abortion.   I asked how many women that had abortions got out of poverty?  No answer.  All I got was in keeps them from being more poor because kids cost money. 
Since you asked for where you made false claims, we can continue right here.  You claimed that abortion is related to mental illness and that this is the reason women get abortions.   And again, you repeat your nonsense about how many women got out of poverty by abortion only, and *this* shows again that you did indeed try to claim that others said that this was possible when they did not. 
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I had my abortion because I already had one child molested by my brother.  I was not going to take that chance with another child in my family full of pervs.
I am curious if you reported any of this to the authorities.
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In post 146 I proved I'm not the only one.  I used reliable sources.  That showed: 1) 75% of women seeking abortion are poor 2) poverty causes depression, a form of mental illness 3) poor women are more likely to experience abuse.  Conclusion abortion is related to mental illness.  I mentioned impulse control.  That includes sexual behavior.
Albeto showed how this nonsense was wrong at #154.  Funny how those links did not say one word about abortion being related to mental illness.  You claimed causation.  And now we have one of the worst attempts at showing causation I have seen on this forum and that includes the theists.  One of the links is a blog post that cites nothing.  You really think this is research, JB?   You claim you could like us "to death" and this is what you ended up with. 
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I never said pulling out was 100% effective, but it does work 75-96% of the time.  This is in the link I shared.   It's more about men taking 1/2 the responsibility for unwanted pregnancy. 
You said it was a "pretty good" way of birth control and that is not true.  I also do not recall you showing a link, but I sure did and I gave those numbers and that 1 out of 4 failure rate, and the 96% is if you use it perfectly.   It's bullshit that pulling out makes men more responsible.  What is a woman going to do when that doesn't happen, JB?  Why would anyone be stupid enough to put their life in someone else's hands that was so easy to take care of yourself?   
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She shouldn't have called me trump.  I just posted how his election triggered me.  She endangered my life.  She triggered my fight or flight mechanisms.  I actually took it easy on her.  Thankfully I have coping skills now.  But that post did increase my heart rate.  Cortisol was released and that causes harm to my body.
I said you were like Trump, and I have no regret in pointing that you are very like him in quite a few ways so far.  You have no problem in mentioning Trump yourself, so I don't believe your claims regarding that your life was in danger.  No need to claim you supposedly "took it easy" on me, because there is no reason to believe that either.  You seem to be making these claims in further attempts at manipulation.
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You apologized for it knowing it was wrong.  Her post was angry and insulting.  That's crossing language boundaries.  People need healthy boundaries.  People say stuff online they wouldn't say to your face. 
Oh, I would say this to your face, JB.  I do not put up with people who try to pee on my face and tell me its raining.  The only boundaries you seem to want is for people to not dare show you to be wrong.  That won't happen.   
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She's the one who needs to control her emotions. 
She keeps on trying to communicate with me in this way.  Our exchanges prove it not effective at all. 
Calling someone Trump and calling someone disgusting are the same damn thing.  Especially when I'm not guilty. 
You have again made false claims, and have refused to support those claims. You claim that Trump does things intentionally but you do not. However, when your repeated claims are pointed out and you reiterate them, then yes, you do things intentionally.  You have not bothered to read the information given to you to show you how you are wrong.  And no, saying that you share similar qualities with Trump is not the same as calling someone disgusting.  The fact that you ignore the information given does show that exchanges with you are often not effective, but that is not because I have shown you information and have pointed out that you have been less than honest. You are correct (in a later post) that I have said that I do not respect you.  You have given me no reason to, and respect is earned not demanded.   
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The two of you are trying real hard to discourage my chosen major.  How about just a simple 123 list of the false claims instead of an extremely hateful manifesto? 
Of course you two agree with each other.  You always do in our exchanges here.   
It's obvious you don't like me so why engage me?  That feeling is mutual. 
I engage you because I don't like false information to be spread as if you have some right to take away the ability of people to make informed decisions just because being wrong upsets you.  The reason I am pointing out that your chosen major may be a problem is that you have no problem in making false claims to people, and that you get blindly upset when someone dares point out that you are wrong.  Those demonstrated attributes will make college very hard for you. 
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We agree on legal abortion.
Education gets men and women out of poverty.
We agree mental illness is related to abortion.
We agree anti-abortionists are not pro-life.
You have yet to explain how education is received by people who have no resources or what few resources they have are spent on the children they have.   You have claimed that abortion causes mental illness and in that I do not agree.  You want to see the nonsense you've claimed?
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Do you understand that it takes mental illness in the form of insecurity of one's self esteem to be a multiple abortioner?
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I am convinced if you solve the problem of poverty you avoid producing suffering thereby avoiding mental illness.
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Y'all make it sound like getting an abortion is hitting the lottery.
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the majority of women have some form of mental illness already and the abortion intensifies the pre-existing condition
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Atheists promote promiscuity.
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Nobody wants to get an abortion.  No little girl dreams of growing up and getting 20 abortions.  There is a cause and it's impulse control.  That is a symptom of mental illness.
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I'm getting an intuition that some people here care about abortion but don't give a flying fuck about women's issues on a broader scale.  That's because of the consistent denial that mental illness and abortion are not intertwined.  I wonder if they own stock?

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I do not agree that I'm the pos Velkyn puts forward.  I see no need to continue subjecting myself to this written verbal abuse.  It's not effective to communicate with me in this manner.  You are certainly free to do it.  It doesn't mean you should.  It falls under the definition of insanity: doing the same thing expecting a different result.
POS? I assume you might mean "piece of shit"?  Exactly where have I called you a piece of shit, JB?   If you think that being shown and told you are wrong is verbal abuse, you denigrate those who suffer verbal abuse.  I repeat myself in the hopes you will listen. And for someone who claims that others should not "diagnose" her, you seem to have little problem in doing it yourself.   
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For me to continue having any more coversations/fights with you two will put me in that same category. 
If you give me a simple list of the false claims I will address it.  I won't address insults with anything but insults.

Again, where are the insults made to you, JB?   

With your repeated false claims about myself and others, then your recantations of these, and then we're back again to the same nonsense.  There is no reason to forgive you anything.  You can be liked, but that requires you to think about what you post. In large degree, you caused your own problems here.  If you are having suicidal thoughts, please call a hotline or your counselor NOW.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by 12 Monkeys on Yesterday at 07:36:53 PM »
you are 19 yo only once but you have a birthday every year...retarded.

Interesting. Explain this. I am curious to know what you think it demonstrates. Do you consider turning 19 y/o a one-time occurrence?
having a birthday is a one time occurence ....celebrating that you were born 19 years ago is a concept to remind you of the day of your birth....its not like you cant understand the concept of useless rituals.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: What's you're answer?
« Last post by 12 Monkeys on Yesterday at 07:29:34 PM »
Oddly, Scientology does have a  god - though it is a bit blurry.
i know little of it other that it is FUCKING whacked
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General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by eh! on Yesterday at 06:23:50 PM »
You have ignored every question I have ever asked you so now I'm just trolling you.
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General Religious Discussion / Re: A question for theists
« Last post by BibleStudent on Yesterday at 05:26:32 PM »
Yeah how can anyone refute rational thinking as a tool to think rationally with by using rational thinking to prove rational thinking is irrational.

I asked you a question earlier. Interested in answering?

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BS you are a clown.

I know. My wife and kids regularly ask me if I am ever going to grow up and stop being such a clown all the time.
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