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Talking about Marie Lemarchand. There is a good story surrounding her remission.

The famous novelist Zola, said before he came to Lourdes: "I only want to see a cut finger dipped in water and come out healed."
When he went to Lourdes he saw Marie Lemarchand suddenly cured of a hideous disease, a tuberculous suppurating ulcer of both cheeks, the nose and upper lip. Doctors present after the miracle testified to the presence of new skin on her face. Dr. Boissaric (President of the Medical Bureau) presented the cured girl to Zola, thinking that such evidence must overwhelm him.
"Behold the case of your dreams, Monsieur Zola," he said. "I do not want to look at her," said Zola, "she is still too ugly" (alluding to the red color of the new skin). "Were I to see all the sick at Lourdes cured, I would not believe in a miracle."
The attitude of Zola is one of mindless bigotry. It is a striking example of the degree to which perversity of the will can blind the intellect.
According to your logic, wouldn't proof of another reason just show that the miracle in question was just never a miracle to begin with?

Yes. And that's a huge deal.
So you need proof that every miracle is actually caused by something else on a case by case basis?
No, as I tried to explain with the Higgs Boson, only one will start a cascade that will have repercussions.

Are you saying that in order for you to not believe that "God" was the cause, we have to have evidence or proof that something else was the cause?
Not exactly, I am saying that if you have that proof, it will help. I'm not sure what the future holds.
But, contrary to most of you, I know what need to be presented so I start to believe you over me. I have examples of what I need.
Would you care to share your examples of what you need?
Sure : Instead of having Marie Lemarchand's face cured of a tuberculous suppurating ulcer of both cheeks, the nose and upper lip.
1. We would find some kind of marks or something indicating a plastic surgery.
2. We would find some kind of unknown treatment after effect if she was ever under a treatment for that kind of ulcer.
3. We would find that she lost her cheeks some days after. (like if it was an illusion)

I hope this gives you enough ideas to understand what is needed for me to doubt a miracle.
Chatter / Re: Gun Fails
« Last post by Chronos on Today at 07:02:10 PM »
And hows about this guy:
"A Minnesota man who admitted shooting a 17-year-old girl multiple times because she asked him to stop trespassing on his riding lawnmower has been charged with attempted first-degree murder. "

good conservative too?  I think probably yes.

I'm glad that none of my neighbors have ever ventured into the fucknut territory.

Long ago in my youth I rented a house with 2 other people and my job was to mow the lawn. The neighbor got upset because I was mowing the lawn with a manual lawnmower, my cutting setting was lower than his (not discernible with common eyesight) and I was mowing 3 inches into his yard (probably discernible by common eyesight but who gives a shit?). So, I was mowing 3 inches of his lawn a centimeter shorter than he did and he asked me not to mow his lawn. Mmmmkay. I made sure to never fucking mow his yard at all. I placed stakes along the line he claimed and I never cut across it. If somebody is going to get that worked up about a 3" cross-over into his yard, he is a fucknut. I assumed he owned guns but I didn't want a confirmation. 

Thank you SevenPatch.

Why didn't she simply answer no? Why did she had to tell what God said, to the serpent?
General Religious Discussion / Re: Why [God] made me with a fallible brain?
« Last post by eh! on Today at 06:32:47 PM »
do protestants, evangelicals, Mormons, JW's .... anyone not catholic read the catchetisms, are they all deceived?
It's funny when you. Look at it from the outside. When Skeptic prayed to God to save the dog,God had intervener status and saved the dog to show sceptic he is real,but when the alter boy prays to God to stop the priest from raping or molesting him,God revokes his intervener status because it will disrupt free will.
Why did eve said to the serpent "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”?

I don't seem to be able to have a clear answer to that question.
Why did she quote that exact phrase from God and not another phrase?
Why did she talk back to the serpent and not to another creature? Or simply not talk?

Clear answer:

The serpent asked Eve a question and Eve answered the question.  Eve did not argue.

Genesis 3:3 1

Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?
yes guys please prove luk is not correct, he does not have anything else to support his claims.
well, first of all i said "humanities" knowledge is infantile... but you're right, not everyone is at the same level.  apparently some struggle with the development of even the most fundamental comprehension skills.

second, what does creation ex nihilo have to do with evolution...? 

third, i make no assertion that "god" exists.  i simply point out that the idea of this conversation happening, on this day, at this time, as the result of billions of years of blind, stoooopid, unintelligent, random chance is pretty goddamn close to being equally as absurd as a "creator god"...

First, human knowledge of the universe is not infantile. Your knowledge of the universe is. Don't mention other people's comprehension skills, when you don't know the word humanity, or humanity's.

"second, what does creation ex nihilo have to do with evolution...? "

 Are you joking?

Your third point is a fallacy. Whatever the outcome on this particular day, it would be unlikely at the start of the universe. For example, If the asteroid had not wiped out the dinosaurs and we were dinosaurs, now intelligent and on the internet, you could equally well say that was unlikely. Take an easy example, what is the chance that you bought your car exactly as you have it, with all the nuts and bolts and every piece being exactly the particular pieces you have actually bought. The chances against you having that car with those nuts and bolts and parts is astronomical.

The other mistake you are still making is that you think we are here because of random chance. Does the universe have laws or not?
General Religious Discussion / Re: JW 5 core concepts
« Last post by eh! on Today at 05:26:32 PM »

jst yr sig;

Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

so there was a time before god existed? and there were gods but just not fully formed ones?
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