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General Religious Discussion / Re: Mike Pence / ISIS
« Last post by magicmiles 2.0 on Yesterday at 11:09:21 PM »

Fucking rich people problems.  Fuck him.

You're the fucking rich person to something like 95% of the worlds population. Been to the Caribbean and everything. Bend over.
General Religious Discussion / Re: Mike Pence / ISIS
« Last post by screwtape on Yesterday at 09:29:43 PM »
i had a rotated cervical vertebra--

Hi Kevin

While I am sympathetic to your pain, I am as interested in chiro testimonials as I am testimonials about Jesus.  It’s not that I don’t believe you.  It’s that to understand these things we need to do it in a way that filters out biases and gets to the truth of it. 

I am aware of chiros who team up with physical therapists and incorporate both methodologies.  This muddies the waters.  Was it the PT to the chiro that worked?  Data says, the PT.  What you got sounds more like PT than chiro, but I have no idea.

Study after study shows chiropractic has not therapeutic value and in many cases is dangerous.

General Religious Discussion / Re: Mike Pence / ISIS
« Last post by screwtape on Yesterday at 09:21:15 PM »

Shkreli actually IS in prison.    There's something I'm 100% behind raising taxes to pay for...   stop the price gouging scam artists,

Just in case it was missed, he’s in jail for lying to shareholders, not price gouging.
General Religious Discussion / Re: Mike Pence / ISIS
« Last post by screwtape on Yesterday at 09:18:14 PM »
Yeah, lot of good points made though... it angers me a bit that Screwtape essentially puts the weight on me to "either be a scientific polling organization" or else every personal experience I've had with liberalism run amok is invalid. 

Why are you using a strawman argument?  Go ahead and quote where I said you needed to be a polling organization.  Go ahead.  After you cannot find it, post your apology.  I will accept it.

While you’re looking, let me just clarify that my point was you need to use data acquired through means that have been proven to find out the truth, because just asking people straight up is not going to get you there. 

So, be angry at me me all you want.  Just have a better reason for it than what you stated.

You're not a scientific polling organization either... 

I’m not.  But I use information from professional pollsters who know what they’re doing to base my decisions. You have not done that.

why shouldn't true personal experiences of myself and just about everyone I know enter into their decision making process about who to vote for?

For the exact same reason this is unacceptable: “Why shouldn’t I use my personal experiences with the supernatural to understand god?”

I can hardly believe I have to tell you this.

He'd never do something as patently immature as having a list of people who's asses he's going to kick, even though he's actually brave enough to spar...

?  What the fuck has this to do with anything?  You just want an excuse to call me immature?  Okay, I’m immature.  Now what?

Does that make any of my point wrong?  No.
Does that make any of you dodges valid?  No. 
So maybe you ought to stick to the points here instead of calling names. 

Your arguments don’t suck because you haven’t presented any yet.  You’ve made a couple of claims and backed them up with shoddy anecdotes. 

That said, it does annoy me, the attitude out there that anyone who is a white male is entitled...  if they're falsely accused of something, or fired, or have their reputation destroyed... well... it's too bad but, it just somehow evens out for the sins of other, totally different white males from the past.

I think you don’t understand the arguments, but your statement is way to vague to actually address.

I would say anyone who is white is privileged and probably feels entitled to it.

For example, a friend of mine thinks there is no such thing as racism anymore.  His evidence is he had a black roommate in college and he never mentioned it.  Yet, my friend does not recognize his own privilege.  When he was in highschool, he was pulled over by a cop.  But he did not pull over right away.  His rationale was, he was on a bridge and it wasn’t safe.  He drove a hundred yards or so and pulled off onto a side street. 

The cop interpreted this as fleeing and called for backup.  It was a minor fiasco.  In the end, nothing came of it.  But how would have have fared had he been black?  Maybe okay.  But statistics tell us that white people get off easier for the same infractions, are convicted at lower rates and serve lesser sentences if convicted.

That is the white man’s privilege, and he often does not even recognize it.

There is a non-stop message in media that is constantly saying how strong and brave you are if you're in any kind of minority group... you can't possibly just be wrong, or if you abuse people... well, it's ok because, you suffered discrimination so it's ok to lash out against random targets who didn't do anything to you.

Is this actually true or is this just your “feelings”? 

I'm glad guys like Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey, Gerry Sandusky, Harvey Weinstein, are getting exposed for what they are...

But it's politically incorrect to mention that 3 of those 4 men are not heterosexual white males.

So the four guys you picked are not all heterosexual white guys.  That means what?

However, if a person feels pressured but simply doesn't stand up for themselves, or speak up.  That's not abuse, that's weakness.

That’s victim blaming, innit? And it depends a lot on what the pressure is.  If the unspoken pressure is keeping your job, or getting frozen out of promotion, is that weakness?

I don’t feel as if you are speaking with any rationality here.  Your post is almost all emotion.

People who think that anyone who is white, and a male... came up easy and has special privileges didn't grow up poor, getting their ass beat, called every homophobic name in the book.  Everyone is fighting some kind of battle.

See above.  Even poor white people have privileges that probably don’t recognize. 

I probably have some bias to me, in that... I haven't personally experienced what it's like to be afraid to be pulled over by cops just because I'm black...

Ah!  So you recognize white privilege!  Excellent.

But in all ways that matter, I can't think of a time that I've ever actively discriminated against anyone.

Close your eyes and picture what a drug dealer looks like.  Be honest.  You pictured a black guy.  You did. That’s racism. Does that make you a cross burning klansman?  No.  Does it make you a terrible person?  No.  It just means you have underlying assumptions based on race and you need to be aware of it and work on it.

I did too, even though the drug dealers in my home town were Jews and there were only 3 black families.  That’s what our culture has impressed on us all.

$250 for an ounce of eye drops?

$25,000 for one week for a teenager in a psyche unit where they eat spaghettios and talk to a therapist for one hour?

$450 for a knee brace?

$10,000 for a rabies vaccination?

$5,000 a night for a stay in a hospital?

$30,000 for a stint in rehab?

Acting as if the dems are responsible for this is ridiculous.  Acting as if they are responsible for not solving it ignores how complicated it is and the power of the invested players.  The American healthcare industry is a huge problem.  I changed my career to try to help fix it it, but the problems are cultural, fundamental and deep.

Several years ago the federal government mandated that healthcare providers use compatible electronic medical cords for patients which would lower costs for hospitals and increase patient safety.  Yet, this still has not been fully implemented.  Why?  Apathy.  Incompetence. General resistance to change. Despite it being in their own self interest.  Healthcare culture is stuck in the 19th century.  Until this is addressed in med schools and hospitals - and there is currently no motivation for them to do so - it won’t change.

Are you kidding me?   And the employees working at the rehab unit are making $15-20 an hour?  People are marking shit up 1000%...  fix THAT first...   and then maybe Socialized Healthcare will work.   

You act as if dems can just wave a wand and make that reality.  The government dictating prices IS socialized medicine.  And about 2/3 of the population has been conditioned against that for the last 20 years. If the dems tried this, there’d be out of office for a generation.  Look what happened when they tried to just give insurance to everyone, for fuck sakes.

... if it's worth debating Skeptic, why isn't it worth debating swing voters who switched from Obama to Trump.

1. Debate only makes people more entrenched in their positions.
2. The people I said it is pointless to debate are the Ann Coulteres and Milo Yannoupolises.  Professional agitators and provocateurs. 

General Religious Discussion / Re: Mike Pence / ISIS
« Last post by kevinagain on Yesterday at 09:06:38 PM »
i had a rotated cervical vertebra--number 6-- that was pinching a nerve because the foramina didn't align. i couldn't hold my head vertical because the pain was so bad. xrays confirmed the problem. no money for surgery. bone crackers i tried couldn't help. neck was worn out like an old car's suspension.

went to a soft tissue chiropractor-- that's what she was called-- who worked with it once a week, massaging the muscles that supported my neck. one side was probably tetanic, but i don't remember the details. eventually she got the muscles to pull the vertebra back into line, taught me exercises to keep the muscle tension on it correctly, and it hasn't bothered me since.

took about ten one-hour sessions. i didn't have any money, but i was a beekeeper, so i paid her in jars of honey.
General Religious Discussion / Re: Mike Pence / ISIS
« Last post by screwtape on Yesterday at 08:07:14 PM »
Oh for fuck sake.

That’s funny.  I say that every time someone tries to tell me their anecdotal non-evidence that chiropractic actually works. 

It’s bullshit.  It was founded in bullshit buy a bullshit artist and it remains bullshit. Some chiropractors espouse less bullshit claims, and some more.  But it is still fundamentally all bullshit.  If you say otherwise, you are being irrational and ignoring science. 

I was injured twice...

Aaaaand here we go with the personal testimonial.  Were you “sublexed”?  Was it discovered with the little magical hammer? How many times a week do you have to go back?

So not interested.  F minus.

There are absolutely crazy claims made about chiropractic care, yes, but my first hand experience and the x-rays are proof enough for me...

Jag, puddin’, please look at that quote.  Is that really an acceptable way to go about determining what’s real and what isn’t?

Spoiler: isn’t.

General Religious Discussion / Re: Why Worship?
« Last post by kevinagain on Yesterday at 02:06:26 PM »

I'm still stuck on the idea that it is humans that need to worship. Why? Well because it offers them some control in a world where it's easy to feel helpless against the forces of nature. It really sucks to feel helpless.

i think thats as good an explanation for tbe origin of religion as any. appeasi g forces beyond your control.
Chatter / Re: Gun Fails
« Last post by Chronos on Yesterday at 01:17:51 PM »

General Religious Discussion / Re: Mike Pence / ISIS
« Last post by Jag on Yesterday at 01:07:35 PM »
Great article on data warfare that may shed further light on this discussion:
General Religious Discussion / Re: Why Worship?
« Last post by junebug72 on Yesterday at 12:03:28 PM »
Quote from: kevinagain
i asked a txas baptist last week why god needs worshipI. his view was that it was appropriate to glorify god and the creation. he's not often clear. mr b referred to him in the first post here. when you ask him for explanations he gets foggy with seminary jargon, so the exchangeI of knowedge stops.

The Texan's explanation takes believers away from an all-loving good God. 

I'm still stuck on the idea that it is humans that need to worship. Why? Well because it offers them some control in a world where it's easy to feel helpless against the forces of nature. It really sucks to feel helpless.

I never felt more helpless than I did when I was a theist. Being atheist puts you behind the wheel. Your purpose is yours to explore and create. Life feels more like a blessing and less like a curse. After all, you don't need a doctor if you ain't sick.

I do not see any reason why a Christian couldn't adopt that hypothesis except for claiming biblical inerrancy. That gets in the way a lot in terms of defining God as all-loving and good.
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