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You make it sound as if 25 million of 300 million isn't a lot for a sporting event; we have a shitload of sports on all the time, and a shitload of other things, too.

Again, was that a rhetorical question? Because the people who don't watch football in my country are a tiny minority. I have only my experience to go on, and my experience tells me 8% isn't a lot.

-Nam

-One
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I never suggested shutting this thread down. But if you forget starting that thread just 2 weeks ago when you actually start very few, and it was the last one you started, I'd worry about memory loss  ;).

Seriously, if you don't like conversing with skeptic, don't. I simply believe it is in poor taste to make call-out threads.
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Or ever seen an atheist who doesn't hate the bible God?

I will see ya all tomorrow.  :)

Sorry to be late to the party, (haven't been here for a while) but I thought I would try and answer the OP.

John, I must say that your Jesus does seem to be a very nice guy.  He cares about the underdogs, heals the sick when he can, feeds the hungry when he can, and advocates empathy as a guiding principal.  This is all very admirable.   And maybe, just maybe, if you had worded your question to focus on Jesus rather than Bible God, you might have gotten a somewhat different set of answers.

You see, the problem is, your Jesus does not seem to have much in common with your Bible God.  Your OT god, as others have pointed out, was not a very nice guy.  I mean, lots of toddlers and kittens, who had done no one any harm, died painful deaths when your god decided to flood the planet or burn Sodom and Gomorrah.  And although Jesus was less angry about the Roman occupation than I would have been had I been there in that time and place, your OT god really, really hated the Canaanites.   No empathy from OT god. 

But here is the thing.  There is just so much STUFF in your holy scriptures, that you get to pick and choose the parts that you like.  You get to shape your god into what YOU want him to be.  And then it is really easy to love him.

And please understand, that I am not just talking about you.  I'm talking about all Christians.

Joel Osteen loves god.  And he is a really nice, empathetic guy, full of optimism and joy and whatnot.  But he didn't get the memo about giving away his worldly possessions to the needy.    In fact, he really believes that the god that he loves, rewards the faithful with material wealth. 

The Liberation Theologists and the Quakers love god too.  And I'm awfully fond of folks from both of those groups.  Unlike Preacher Osteen, they believe in social justice, in living a simple life.  Very into the whole empathy thing. 

The Duggar family love god too
.  They love god so much, that they know it is their daughters' fault when their son decides to molest them.  Their god really wants their daughters to wear long skirts and so that temptation does not creep into the thoughts of their sons.  Who are, of course, closer to god than their daughters.

On the topic of temptation, Ted Haggard really loves god too.  Preacher Haggard loves a god who knows we are all sinners, but who is willing to forgive us.  No matter what we do.  So long as we feel really bad about it. 

Pope Francis loves god.
  His god thinks we should be concerned about climate change.  And I am delighted that his god thinks it is ok to take care of our planet, because lots of Christians (in the US at least) think that climate change is an atheist plot.  But you know, I'm still mad at the pope for his role in Argentina's Dirty War.  His god had a really different set of priorities, compared to the Liberation Theologists.

My Aunt Joannie loves god. And her god is really nice, too.  A few days after my (atheist) father died, my father visited my Aunt Joannie in a dream, to tell her that he had been wrong, and that he was in heaven with the rest of the deceased members of the extended family.   My Aunt Joannie was so excited, that she called my grieving mother at 2 AM and woke her up to share the good news.  My agnostic mother was not as pleased as my aunt hoped she would be.  But my aunt assured me that they are all up in heaven together now, and that the women are cooking and the men are sitting around the table, just like Sunday dinners so many years ago.

But the "Jesus is the Way" folks who love god, are absolutely certain that no matter how good of a person you are, you don't get to go to heavenly Sunday dinners unless you accept the lord as your savior.

So here is the thing John.  We genuinely don't have any idea which Bible God  to love.

If all of the Christians in the world could get together, come to a consensus, and present us with a viable, lovable model of God that you guys all agree is the real thing, then maybe we would be better equipped to see if we felt that love too.

Oh.  And if God could do something to confirm that the consensus model is right, you know, like writing it in the sky for everyone in the world to see, or taking over every TV and computer on planet  earth at the same time and speaking to each individual in his/her native language, just to confirm, that would be even better.   Or even just re-writing every Bible in clear, precise language, with no ambiguity. 

I have a lot of love in my heart.  But until I get some clarity here, I don't see any way to direct any of it towards Bible God.

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General Religious Discussion / Re: Extraterrestrial Life Found?
« Last post by nogodsforme on Today at 05:22:38 PM »
Oh, the humans are special because we have are intelligent and therefore have souls gambit.

My smart border collie mix dog can understand words so well we have to spell in front of him and even switch into foreign languages for "walk",  "treat",  "outside", etc. He aced puppy school. He can speak, beg, pretty beg, lay down, shake hands, play catch. He had surgery and refused to wear the cone of shame. He would wear a human t-shirt, however. More dignified.

He tells us when the dumb lab mix needs to go out. He has done this consistently-- one bark when he needs to go out, two when his bro needs to go-- since they were puppies. We never taught him this. We got them separately several months apart from the shelter, so they had never met before.

The big dumb one, on the other hand can't do a trick to save his life. He forgets what he is doing when he plays ball. He barely knows his own name. But he has more emotional intelligence than many humans. He brought me presents when I was recovering from surgery. Pretty things, like my daughter's hair ribbon, a decoration from the Christmas tree, etc. He would drop it beside my bed or put it in my hand. We never taught him this. He did it on his own.

Not calculus, true.[1]So, not intelligence or a soul. Meaning no doggies in heaven. And another reason for me not to ever want to go there.

 1. Um, do dogs need calculus? Is that a survival skill that would help wolves catch a rabbit or stay warm in winter?
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Chatter / Re: Dear Azdgari
« Last post by Azdgari on Today at 05:19:37 PM »
No, I really did think you meant that we should be grateful that the Confederacy happened, because without their efforts, slavery might have persisted for longer.

I'll remove the sig, since that's not what you meant.
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Didn't you already do this thread?

No. Not quite.

Pretty close.

Well, even though you say, "Pretty close", that doesn't persuade me to say, "Hey, moderators, shut down this thread, because, as Airyaman(What a stupid fucking name!) pointed out, I forgot that I recently started a thread that was 'pretty close' to this subject."


Go ahead, Airyaman, and continue to pretend that you are engaging with Christians, just like Christians continue to pretend that they are engaging with Jesus.
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Forum Questions & Suggestions / Re: THE ETHICS OF DEBATING
« Last post by JeffPT on Today at 05:05:57 PM »
The same applies to the interpretation of religious texts. Given that it is impossible for anyone to write a perfectly rationally argued document without a segment that, out of context, can appear to be totally absurd and lend itself to sensationalization, politicians and charlatans hunt for these segments. So do some, but not all journalists.
If God exists, he could write a perfectly rationally argued document though, couldn't he?  At the very least, he could inspire people to write perfectly rationally argued lines of text.  He'd have that capacity to do that, would he not? 

Given that it IS impossible for anyONE (human that is) to write a perfectly rationally argued document, and given that there isn't a single perfectly rationally argued line or set of lines in the entire bible, it's reasonable to think that it was all written by men (not inspired by God), who all have the capacity to be completely wrong about anything and everything, including the existence of God, Jesus and the rest of the nonsense. 

BTW, your argument here seems to be hinting toward the idea that we tend to take things out of context when it comes to the religious texts which does an injustice to the authors by attacking what they said as opposed to what they meant.  2 big problems here.  1, They've been dead for 2000 years; we (including you) have no idea what they ACTUALLY meant.  2, You can't just assume that what YOU think they meant is what they ACTUALLY meant.  Given that they wrote during a completely different time period, with different cultures and lifestyles and belief systems, your modern interpretation as to what they meant just might be as offensive to them as ours. 


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I know, right? How does skeptic know that demons speak all languages? How would you even go about testing something like that?

Of course demons speak all languages, so that they can trick people from every culture to follow them, you silly billy.

Sounds like the "stands to reason" kind of remark that gets passed around in theist circles and never analyzed. Just like so many things skeptic says. When you show him that the data does not support what he thinks, he just goes on as if you had not said anything.

God speaks all languages, too, so he can combat the demons. And Santa speaks all languages so he can find out what all the good little girls and boys whose parents have enough money want for Christmas. And fairies speak all languages, as do unicorns and chupacabras. Well, maybe not chupacabras--they only speak Mexican. :-\
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Didn't you already do this thread?

No. Not quite.




We get it. Atheist or Christian, skeptic is the closest we have to a theist. Without him, this place becomes a lot more boring.

I totally understand your sentiment. I am just trying to get us all on the same page. If I am the "crazy idiot", I want to read comments that enlighten me otherwise. If I am on to something, it totally explains why I spent a recent year mostly on Christian forums-- because my favorite person to engage with is an actual Christian.




Not sure what these threads actually accomplish, but I support your right to create them  ;).

Thank you for your support.

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