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I don't know what you will lose if you keep on searching.  JB I do not worship the trinitarian God of Chritendom (Chistendom=Church+State+false doctrine).  I worship Jehovah.  Some people will say they are the same God but they are not.  Jehovah did not condemn all the living because of Adam's sin.  Jehovah does not burn people in hell.  Jehovah did not die on a cross.  Jehovah has not removed his personal name some 7000+ times from the holy scriptures.  His servants do no participate in war.  His servants do not try to rule the world through politics and law making.  This is just to name a few differences.

Does Jehovah ask or demand to be worshiped?  To desire worship is VAIN.  It makes it seem like Jehovah created us to worship him.  That is cruel in my world.

Yes I am beginning to understand what you are saying.  This saddens me more than you know.  I know that you are wary of religion and you probably view everything I say with suspicion.  That is okay, it is a good protection for you.  But do you recall the story that Christ told where he said that when you open the door to this least of his brothers that you open the door door him? (Mathew 25:31-46)  I cannot tell you that every time there is a knock and you open the door that it will be one of Christ's brothers.  But if you never open the door then you may also miss Christ.  I hope you understand.  I am speaking of your mind and your heart.  Open them to those that are Christ's brothers.

I thought you knew I respect the man Jesus.  It's his followers I am leery of.  I would help anyone that I could no matter their religion.

We will have peace.  The conditions that exist on this earth right now will not always exist.  We will come to love one another.  We will come to love our home, this earth.  Peace will prevail.

The thing is we need to do it ourselves or face the consequences of an angry Jehovah.  What does Jehovah do with the "sinners''? 

I understand you feel that way.  There are some harsh punishments in the Bible and there is death.  But these have been rare occasions and it's never been done just for the fun of it.  Jehovah's purpose is not to punish, but there is a point where he says, "this far and no farther".  I think he would be a cruel God to not do so. 

What if someone endangered your children or tried to harm them?  Would your love not become a consuming fire?  Do you think God would not also become a consuming fire?

I understand you feel that way, but I am not entirely sure what you mean when you say "religion".  Are you talking about organized religion or just any belief in God?

At this point any belief in gods.  I am especially afraid of Islam and Christianity.

I am trying.  I am not an enemy.  We can be at peace.  I want to be at peace. 

And I don't know if I could walk a mile in your shoes.  I don't know much but I know you've been through things that I have not.  I remember a time when I was inspired by your faith though.  I know you don't believe in faith but I think that's because we have different definitions.  Suffice it to say that you inspired me.  But now you are going down a different road and I am afraid for you.

If I knocked would you open the door?

Peace it is.  I don't like aggressive debates.  I think they are counter productive.

Why would you be afraid if Jehovah is not cruel?  What's going to happen to me?   

I have already opened the door. 

I have that Albert Einstein quote as my signature for a reason.  How can I understand mankind w/o observing mankind?

How can mankind know of a god w/o observing one?   

I thought your definition of freewill was eloquent but I also agree with Foxy.  Right and wrong is determined by society. 

Yes we have a conscience but not all of us; psychopaths.  Our conscience more likely evolved, glance through history,  rather than programmed. 

I think we can take it to the christians cannot manage the challenge and are avoiding the thread to save admitting that there is no evidence that they can provide and that the bible doesn't really represent the truth.

I'd love for some christians to come along and show me that I'm wrong but I somehow doubt it's going to happen.
Cough. This isn't going away, you know.

Do you not realise this thread, if you complete the challenge, is your best source of conversion?

Why the ducking around then?

It just takes evidence, just like how I would prove to you that a flying spaghetti monster exists.
Chatter / Washington Correspondent Speeches
« Last post by shnozzola on Today at 06:49:50 AM »
Obama's Speech     (5:10   for Bachmans "end of days" reference - now that's a legacy ;D)

Cecily Strong's Speech

edit:   Sorry - I see taking out the "s" doesn't work anymore
General Religious Discussion / Re: How would you protect you children?
« Last post by Anfauglir on Today at 02:36:25 AM »
.....let us say for the story that you have never even made a mistake .....One day, one of your children begins accusing you of being a bad parent...

Impossible scenario.  If the parent had never, ever made a single mistake in the raising of his children, this scenario could simple not happen.  I therefore don't see any point is the discussion.
Foxy never said that nothing was wrong. She said that right and wrong are culturally determined. You know this, just like speed limits and drinking age and whether dogs are food are all culturally determined. Your problem, Jst, is that there are mnay things that god does in the bible that our modern culture has decided is wrong. And you have to figure out how to make things like killing everyone in a town, including the babies, compatible with a loving father figure.

That is one of the worst things about religion. It requires you to believe that something blatantly horrific, like the drowning of every human on the planet is just fine, cause what else could god do with all those evil babies, toddlers and elderly folks?
General Religious Discussion / Re: What would make you believe?
« Last post by Nam on Today at 12:57:02 AM »
People pee in sandboxes. I will gladly stay out of them.

Religion In The News / Re: Christian necromancy
« Last post by stuffin on Yesterday at 11:12:40 PM »
The Vatican just started a class to teach exorcism to its priests.  172 signed up.  So the Catholic Church buys into demons.  I might use that if I were this woman's lawyer.  The kid died but sometimes the demon wins.  A mainstream religion says it happens.  How can the defense say this kid was not possessed?

They have to, it helps with explanations about weird shit they can't explain otherwise.
General Religious Discussion / Re: The existence if Israel
« Last post by Jstwebbrowsing on Yesterday at 11:08:29 PM »
the Christians in power and those who vote for them have an interest in Israel that is puzzling to me. The interest of the existence of Israel from a Christian view is so their Messiah,Jesus has his homeland to return to. This thinking that the Jewish Messiah needs a Jewish homeland to return to,what does this mean to a Christian?

This may not be a complete thought,you can make it more clear if you wish

It is a common belief that in the end times there will be a big war against Israel.  It is believed that everyone fighting against Israel will be destroyed by God because they believe the nation of Israel is still God's chosen people.  Therefore they want to be allies with Israel.
Seems like the main beneficiary of this idea is Israel. They can do whatever they want and still count on the US to support them, so as not to be on the wrong side when the endtimes come. But the Israeli people are mostly secular and don't buy into religious ideology. They are taking all that US military and financial aid, talking up the Judeo Christian connection that supposedly binds out countries together, and laughing all the way to the bank. And meanwhile, violating all kinds of rules that we have invaded other countries for.... :P

One could make that argument, yes.  Many feel that Israel should be protected at all costs.  At least this is a common belief among Protestants in the Bible belt.  I don't know about Catholics.  Witnesses do not believe that. 
General Religious Discussion / Re: What would make you believe?
« Last post by stuffin on Yesterday at 10:59:59 PM »
Then I don't get to play.



When you learn how to play nice they'll let you back in the sandbox.     ;D

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