whywontgodhealamputees.com

Dead Zone => The Bottomless Pit => Topic started by: Truth on March 20, 2009, 08:50:25 PM

Title: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 20, 2009, 08:50:25 PM
This is not a sermon, but an answer to a question that needs a spiritual answer.

God is Spirit. Usually when one gets a limb amputated, it is because that limb has become life threatening.  So the miracle is to remove it and the body becomes healed or is no longer threatened with death from a diseased limb. The bible says And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

God could have said he would grow these limbs back, but he said to cut them off.  In the natural, he wants us to cut off sin that is in our lives.  Amputees are his angels that remind us that we need to cut off sin in our lives.   God desires that we prosper and be in health even as our soul prospers. Amputees are left with limbs that are alive and non life threatening.  It is the will of God to cut off sin and this just symbolizes in the natural world a spiritual principle.  You say why did God cause these people to suffer?  Their reward is in heaven.  He did not cause them to suffer, but he did not say he would grow limbs back, he said he would cut them off.  It is his will and God can do anything he pleases. There is more to it than this earthly life as we know it.  Jesus gave more than a limb, he gave his life so that we may be saved and forgiven for our sins.
     
For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.   This says there everyone will be tested with fire.  We do not live in this world without being tested. We all have burdens to bear.  Some people have limbs cut off, others have other burdens.  But this explains that the amputee’s fire is having a limb cut off.  Symbolizing how we are cut off from God when we sin.  That is why he won’t “heal” (I presume you mean grow the limb back).  I hope this explains it to you.  Bottom line is God wants us to be cut off from sin.


Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: dmnemaine on March 20, 2009, 08:56:16 PM
According to you, every amputee in the world is an object lesson about sin.  Hmm.  Don't you think an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God could have come up with a much less cruel and sadistic way to teach a lesson?  Your explanation is absurd, and is clearly grasping at straws.  Oh the rationalization of the theist.  This one takes the cake.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 20, 2009, 09:01:45 PM
What exactly is your god testing for? Blood type?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 20, 2009, 09:06:43 PM
When I say test, I mean that we all have trials in this life.  They are not a test from God, they are just part of life.  But God can take a trial that was meant for bad and turn it around for Good.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 20, 2009, 09:14:38 PM
When I say test, I mean that we all have trials in this life.  They are not a test from God, they are just part of life.  But God can take a trial that was meant for bad and turn it around for Good.

Sounds like the battered wife syndrome, "my husband beat me with a crowbar, but that blessed soul, he didn't beat me with a RUSTY crowbar!"

So why doesn't god heal any amputees? Good doesn't always arise from amputations, bad results occur as well.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 20, 2009, 09:20:03 PM
I think I said God can take what and not God always takes.  Stop trying to make by writing what you want it to say.  Instead read and understand.  This means he can take if he desires not, but he doesn't always desire. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 20, 2009, 09:21:22 PM
Why not? I thought he was all-loving? So it is god's desire that all humans suffer, am I understanding you correctly?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: dmnemaine on March 20, 2009, 09:22:26 PM
I think I said God can take what and not God always takes.  Stop trying to make by writing what you want it to say.  Instead read and understand.  This means he can take if he desires not, but he doesn't always desire. 

With amputees he never desires.  That is the question.  And your answer that it is to teach an object lesson about sin is sick and twisted.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Odin on March 20, 2009, 09:22:46 PM
Usually when one gets a limb amputated, it is because that limb has become life threatening.  So the miracle is to remove it and the body becomes healed or is no longer threatened with death from a diseased limb.

Amputation can occur from an accident.  That has nothing to do with disease, and the analogy ends.

Unless, of course, god uses the limb to set the analogy of sin.  Then the good limb is injured, say in a car accident, and has to be amputated.  This is the analogy of separating us from sin?

This is, quite possibly, one of the most inane bits of reasoning I have ever run across. 

Here is the correct interpretation of why god does not regrow limbs.  god is imaginary, and therefore, cannot affect anything in the universe.  Only when the answer to prayer has an ambiguous outcome, like the spontaneous healing of cancer, does the prayer seem to be answered.  Even though, when answered, the answer is within the statistical realm of normal healing, given the treatment.  For example, the five-year survival rate for a diagnosis of stage 4 malignant, metastatic melanoma is about 6%; and it's the same for those who pray and are prayed for, and for those who do not pray and are not prayed for.

When the answer to a prayer is unambiguous, such that any sane person can see and verify the outcome, then the answer to the prayer is always no.  Thus, failure to ever head an amputated limb.

Odin, King of the Gods
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 20, 2009, 09:37:58 PM
Why not? I thought he was all-loving? So it is god's desire that all humans suffer, am I understanding you correctly?

Can you tell me where I said that God desires that all humans suffer?  God desires that we prosper and be in health even as our soul prospers.  But in this life, we all have trials and God knows this. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 20, 2009, 09:49:11 PM
Quote
This means he can take if he desires not, but he doesn't always desire.

You're right. Correction on my part, he desires all amputees, and basically anybody that never gets healing, to suffer. If he desired for them to not suffer, he would have healed them.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 20, 2009, 10:36:13 PM
Quote
This means he can take if he desires not, but he doesn't always desire.

You're right. Correction on my part, he desires all amputees, and basically anybody that never gets healing, to suffer. If he desired for them to not suffer, he would have healed them.

God answers prayer.  God does not desire anyone to suffer and never did I say that.  I know it is hard to understand, but when you become a believer, it will be clearer.  Sometimes people are not healed, they just die in the natural.  It doesn't mean that they weren't healed.  If they are believers they will have eternal life and will never suffer again.  If they are non believer...Oh well.  Now even though some people do not choose God, he desires that everyone chooses him.  But he gave us free will so it is up to us what we choose. 

So are you saying that there should be no suffering in the world?  I agree with you on that, but this is not the final stop we have to always remember, that there is a world where there is no more suffering...it's a place called heaven. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: dmnemaine on March 20, 2009, 10:46:06 PM
God answers prayer.  God does not desire anyone to suffer and never did I say that.  I know it is hard to understand, but when you become a believer, it will be clearer.  Sometimes people are not healed, they just die in the natural.  It doesn't mean that they weren't healed.  If they are believers they will have eternal life and will never suffer again.  If they are non believer...Oh well.  Now even though some people do not choose God, he desires that everyone chooses him.  But he gave us free will so it is up to us what we choose. 

So are you saying that there should be no suffering in the world?  I agree with you on that, but this is not the final stop we have to always remember, that there is a world where there is no more suffering...it's a place called heaven. 

So only believers can "understand"?  You fail on this one big time.  Many of us on this forum were believers at one time, and it's because of things like this that we are not believers any more.  You don't really understand yourself.  You're just making up rationalizations for your god.  Rationalizations that make him sound like a sadistic creep, I might add.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 20, 2009, 11:04:48 PM
God answers prayer.  God does not desire anyone to suffer and never did I say that.  I know it is hard to understand, but when you become a believer, it will be clearer.  Sometimes people are not healed, they just die in the natural.  It doesn't mean that they weren't healed.  If they are believers they will have eternal life and will never suffer again.  If they are non believer...Oh well.  Now even though some people do not choose God, he desires that everyone chooses him.  But he gave us free will so it is up to us what we choose. 

So are you saying that there should be no suffering in the world?  I agree with you on that, but this is not the final stop we have to always remember, that there is a world where there is no more suffering...it's a place called heaven. 

Either god wants them to suffer or he doesn't, there really is no third option. Perhaps he's indifferent to human suffering? If he wanted them to suffer, they'd suffer, which is basically what is going on right now. If he didn't want them to suffer, they wouldn't, which is what is not happening, as no amputees have been healed. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 20, 2009, 11:51:54 PM
Ahem;

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/rationalizations.htm (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/rationalizations.htm)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: sam on March 21, 2009, 12:38:41 AM
see what you guys think of this quote

Peter Kreeft discusses this issue in his treatment of Pascal’s Pens?es: “He [God] gives exactly the right amount of light. If he gave less, even the righteous would be unable to find him, and their will would be thwarted. If he gave more, even the wicked would find him, against their will. Thus he respects and fulfills the will of all.”
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 21, 2009, 01:24:51 AM
see what you guys think of this quote

Peter Kreeft discusses this issue in his treatment of Pascal’s Pens?es: “He [God] gives exactly the right amount of light. If he gave less, even the righteous would be unable to find him, and their will would be thwarted. If he gave more, even the wicked would find him, against their will. Thus he respects and fulfills the will of all.”

Once the righteous have found the light they lose free will.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Anontro on March 21, 2009, 08:15:22 AM
Once the righteous have found the light they lose free will.

Then you say that the righteous loose morals when they do find 'the light', as that requires autonomy.

How does someone loose free will if they find God?
If I suddenly found God and understood religion - I admit, I don't - does that mean that suddenly I would have no power to turn around and say "I believe what God allows to go on on Earth is awful" and stop worshipping?

This is the equivalent of saying once you know how a computer works you can't turn it off.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Odin on March 21, 2009, 08:23:30 AM
see what you guys think of this quote
Peter Kreeft discusses this issue in his treatment of Pascal’s Pens?es: “He [God] gives exactly the right amount of light. If he gave less, even the righteous would be unable to find him, and their will would be thwarted. If he gave more, even the wicked would find him, against their will. Thus he respects and fulfills the will of all.”

About as much as I think of this quote:

"There once was a prophet named Dave,
Who kept a dead whore in a cave.
She was minus one t*t, and she smelled like shit,
But think of the money he saved!"

Odin, Lymerical King of the Gods
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Anontro on March 21, 2009, 08:31:47 AM
Don't you think an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God could have come up with a much less cruel and sadistic way to teach a lesson?  Your explanation is absurd, and is clearly grasping at straws.  Oh the rationalization of the theist.  This one takes the cake.
But this implies God specifically chooses to inflict pain upon people, whereas one propertie of God is benevolence.
Forget the idea God 'performs miracles' in hospitals, you got that from some statistical data about what doctors think.  For God to be benevolent it means he can't decide upon whom to inflict evil, as this would be a contradiction, so therefore evil must be random.  Therefore the fact amputees don't spontaneously re-grow limbs isn't because it's "not Gods will" etc, its because you had a bit of bad luck and fell victim to the random selection of evil.

What exactly is your god testing for? Blood type?
And you make no argument, just sound butthurt.  Find something you can actually make a point on or don't comment.


btw, I'm agnostic, leaning towards athiesm, so not just trying to rationalise my beliefs.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: dmnemaine on March 21, 2009, 09:04:18 AM
But this implies God specifically chooses to inflict pain upon people, whereas one propertie of God is benevolence.
Forget the idea God 'performs miracles' in hospitals, you got that from some statistical data about what doctors think.  For God to be benevolent it means he can't decide upon whom to inflict evil, as this would be a contradiction, so therefore evil must be random.  Therefore the fact amputees don't spontaneously re-grow limbs isn't because it's "not Gods will" etc, its because you had a bit of bad luck and fell victim to the random selection of evil.

You can't have it both ways, Anontro.  Either God is omnibenevolent or he allows amputees to exist unhealed.  Both cannot be true.  Since amputees exist unhealed, an omnibenevolent God does not exist.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 21, 2009, 06:33:17 PM
Once the righteous have found the light they lose free will.
How does someone loose free will if they find God?

If I suddenly found God and understood religion - I admit, I don't - does that mean that suddenly I would have no power to turn around and say "I believe what God allows to go on on Earth is awful" and stop worshipping?

This is the equivalent of saying once you know how a computer works you can't turn it off.

According to the quote, God is giving enough evidence to allow the righteous to know that he is real and exists, but not enough evidence that the wicked would also have this knowledge.

Once the righteous have found that evidence, then they know that God exists, so why would they then deny that he exists later?  This is basically the same argument that Christians make all the time when they say that if God performed a bonafied miracle today that it would rob us of our free will, because who's going to deny God when they have 100% certainty that he exists.

Honestly, though, I think both arguments fail.

Oh, and here's one other thing:

Quote
Thus he respects and fulfills the will of all

I've got all of these theists telling me it's all about GOD'S will, not human's will.  God only answers prayer if it is IN HIS WILL or God considers everything OUTSIDE OF HIS WILL to be sin, yadda, yadda.  They carry on about God's will all the time and how everything revolves around God's will.  As a matter of fact, the very idea that you can go to hell for not doing GOD'S will is proof positive that God doesn't give a hoot about my will.    He only RESPECTS his OWN will, when it gets down to brass tacks.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 21, 2009, 06:39:49 PM
Quote
Usually when one gets a limb amputated, it is because that limb has become life threatening.  So the miracle is to remove it and the body becomes healed or is no longer threatened with death from a diseased limb

So what about those people who lose an arm or leg in a car accident. IMO the one who is most severely injured in a car accident is usually the one who didn't cause the accident. So why not take the limb from the guy who messed up?

Hmm, here is something I've been thinking about for the last couple of days: Why can our liver regenerate, but our arms and legs can't. I mean 'god' did give our bodies the technology to regenerate, so why not our limbs?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 06:54:12 PM
You whole body can regenerate.  If you are saved when you die (and we do agree that everyone is going to die), you will receive a glorified body, which is a perfect body free of any disease or problems and you will live in eternity.  To be saved you have to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that he was raised from the dead and now lives in heaven with the Father praying for us. Your body will not regenerate if you are not saved.  That's the way it is. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 21, 2009, 06:57:51 PM
You whole body can regenerate.  If you are saved when you die (and we do agree that everyone is going to die), you will receive a glorified body, which is a perfect body free of any disease or problems and you will live in eternity.  To be saved you have to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that he was raised from the dead and now lives in heaven with the Father praying for us. Your body will not regenerate if you are not saved.  That's the way it is. 

Oh, so you are going with the "amputees get their reward in heaven" line.

So how do you explain how God supposedly performs all these miracles for humans, like healing all manner of ailments, yet conspicuously doesn't heal amputees?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 07:17:35 PM
You are mistaken.  Amputees are healed.  For if they would not have had the limb cut off, it would have killed them.  If the limb was cut off in an accident, the wound left unattended would have killed the person.  So there is healing.  Not limbs growing back and I have already explained why that happens.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 21, 2009, 07:38:04 PM
You are mistaken.  Amputees are healed.  For if they would not have had the limb cut off, it would have killed them.  If the limb was cut off in an accident, the wound left unattended would have killed the person.  So there is healing.  Not limbs growing back and I have already explained why that happens.

Give me your address, and I'll come over with a healing hacksaw.

BTW, your comment is an insane version of the Yes, No, and Wait argument;

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI[/youtube]
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 07:50:44 PM
Even though you don't believe in God, he loves you anyway.  At some point in your life you will need something from God.  When you are ready, he will be there waiting for you.  I know it is hard to understand the truth, but that doesn't change the fact that it is true. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 21, 2009, 07:57:38 PM
Even though you don't believe in God, he loves you anyway.  At some point in your life you will need something from God.  When you are ready, he will be there waiting for you.  I know it is hard to understand the truth, but that doesn't change the fact that it is true. 

He loves you but he's going to throw you in hell for eternity?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 21, 2009, 08:00:44 PM
Why not? I thought he was all-loving? So it is god's desire that all humans suffer, am I understanding you correctly?

Can you tell me where I said that God desires that all humans suffer?  God desires that we prosper and be in health even as our soul prospers.  But in this life, we all have trials and God knows this. 

Why are you speaking for God in this thread? Did he appoint you as his spokesperson? I'd much rather hear the answers from him, thank you.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 21, 2009, 08:09:47 PM
Even though you don't believe in God, he loves you anyway.  At some point in your life you will need something from God.  When you are ready, he will be there waiting for you.  I know it is hard to understand the truth, but that doesn't change the fact that it is true.

Address?  No?

OK.

Then, address my other comment;

BTW, your comment is an insane version of the Yes, No, and Wait argument;

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI[/youtube]
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 08:15:30 PM
Even though you don't believe in God, he loves you anyway.  At some point in your life you will need something from God.  When you are ready, he will be there waiting for you.  I know it is hard to understand the truth, but that doesn't change the fact that it is true. 

He loves you but he's going to throw you in hell for eternity?

Yeah he desires that you not perish in hell, but he requires that you believe that Jesus is his Son and that he was raised from the dead and is not seated at his right hand making intercession on your behalf.

He does does you, now you have to decide if you love him enough to believe.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 08:19:03 PM
God does speak through individuals.  But he will speak to you.  Since you have asked him to speak to you, I come into agreement that he will answer your call and speak to your heart speedily.  Praise God.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 21, 2009, 08:21:18 PM
So all we have to go by in this Jesus belief is an old compilation of books decided upon by a committee? Could you give us just a tad more evidence that this Jesus character, as portrayed in the bible, ever existed?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 21, 2009, 08:24:02 PM
Quote
He does does you, now you have to decide if you love him enough to believe

haha are you saying he's doing us. Kinda like he did Mary, right? I feel uncomfortable right now  :-\.

(just kidding obviously, don't take that as an insult.)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 21, 2009, 08:25:42 PM
God does speak through individuals.  But he will speak to you.  Since you have asked him to speak to you, I come into agreement that he will answer your call and speak to your heart speedily.  Praise God.

Why take your word for it?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 08:28:20 PM
Quote
He does does you, now you have to decide if you love him enough to believe

haha are you saying he's doing us. Kinda like he did Mary, right? I feel uncomfortable right now  :-\.

(just kidding obviously, don't take that as an insult.)
No its a typo, I meant to say he does love you, now you have to decide if you love him enough to believe
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 21, 2009, 08:30:21 PM
^^What does love from an invisible, silent, uninvolved entity feel like?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 09:19:38 PM
God is not silent.  He speaks to us in our Spirit and through others such as preachers, teachers, and individuals. 

Love is kind, gentle, not rude, not proud, patient, not self seeking, not easily angered, keeps no record of wrongs.  Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth.  Love always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.  Love never fails.  That what love is.  You have it from God, now do you want to get it for God and others.  If you do not have these characteristics, you do not have real love and it will not last. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 21, 2009, 09:27:28 PM
God is not silent.  He speaks to us in our Spirit and through others such as preachers, teachers, and individuals. 

Love is kind, gentle, not rude, not proud, patient, not self seeking, not easily angered, keeps no record of wrongs.  Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth.  Love always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.  Love never fails.  That what love is.  You have it from God, now do you want to get it for God and others.  If you do not have these characteristics, you do not have real love and it will not last. 

Awesome! I'm safe then because that's the same love I get from my fiance!! (also, he never wiped out two cities out of pure vengeance (Sodom and Gomorra), *temporarily ruined a mans life (Job)*, and ordered a father to kill someone, only to change his mind in at the last minute (Abraham))
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 21, 2009, 09:29:14 PM
Why indeed! Thought this was interesting. Would he have painted before he was paralyzed? I don't know if this man is a believer or not. Either way. The biggest point to me is this.  "God causes all things to work for the good of those that love him."  Sometimes it's not always better for someone to be healed, and as a result better things come from it.  Even more so, in most cases love is increased.  It doesn't matter if "God caused this, or that" or If man caused it, or if it was one of those coincidences you guys love to talk about. However I'm sure one of you will have something negative to say. None the less, enjoy some art.

http://jdunten.com/about (http://jdunten.com/about)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 09:51:37 PM
So all we have to go by in this Jesus belief is an old compilation of books decided upon by a committee? Could you give us just a tad more evidence that this Jesus character, as portrayed in the bible, ever existed?

He still exists today.  He is just in heaven praying for you right now.  One evidence that Jesus walked with man is the apostle Paul.  He wrote a lot of the New Testament and in it he stated he saw and walked with Jesus.  Paul started out as a non believer and then once converted become one of the most prolific and best promoters of God (if you will).  He did it all from a jail cell.  Jesus and God exists another evidence is that they wake you up every morning.  You don't have to wake up.  You could have been dead.  But by the grace of God you still have lift on this earth.  Just ask him to come into your heart and he will show you for yourself that he still lives.  I dare you to ask him.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 21, 2009, 09:53:28 PM
Quote
One evidence that Jesus walked with man is the apostle Paul.  He wrote a lot of the New Testament and in it he stated he saw and walked with Jesus


So you've got tangible evidence for Jesus and Paul right? Show it, but follow this rule: Don't use the bible as a source.
Quote
You could have been dead.

What about when I was strung out on drugs. I could have been dead many times, but I never was.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 10:01:35 PM
You didn't die when you were on drugs because God saved you.  He loves you and want you to prosper and be in health even as your soul prospers.

Im not sure what source you would like me to use.  The Bible is the word of God and I do not make thjis stuff up, I find it in the word of God.  The Bible is one way that God tells us things.  It is the only true source. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 21, 2009, 10:20:15 PM
You didn't die when you were on drugs because God saved you.  He loves you and want you to prosper and be in health even as your soul prospers.

Im not sure what source you would like me to use.  The Bible is the word of God and I do not make thjis stuff up, I find it in the word of God.  The Bible is one way that God tells us things.  It is the only true source. 

AMEN!
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 21, 2009, 10:28:19 PM
One: I escaped drugs through my own will, noone else's.
Two: I want a source that is unbiased. You might not have made this stuff up, but can you speak for the writers of the gospels, and other books? The answer is no since you don't know them. Years passed, and their word got spread. Have you ever played the game telephone? It's a good example of what happens when stories get spread from one person to another. The bible is biased. You're using a biased source for the existence of god.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 10:37:15 PM
You missed the point.  The Bible is the only source in written form.  God is the true source.  There is only one Good.  Apart from him you can do nothing.  Whether you decide to give him the credit or not.  You do have a free will, but it is God that gives it to you.  It is God that is keeping you.  Jesus, the son of God is the other source.  God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit told men what tho write in the Bible and we are to use it as a guide for living and getting to know God better.  It is strange to ask for another source.  What other source would there be?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 21, 2009, 10:44:34 PM
You missed the point.  The Bible is the only source in written form.  God is the true source.  There is only one Good.  Apart from him you can do nothing.  Whether you decide to give him the credit or not.  You do have a free will, but it is God that gives it to you.  It is God that is keeping you.  Jesus, the son of God is the other source.  God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit told men what tho write in the Bible and we are to use it as a guide for living and getting to know God better.  It is strange to ask for another source.  What other source would there be?

I just want to ask a simple question; have you read the entire bible, cover-to-cover?

A simple yes or no will suffice.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 11:01:03 PM
yes
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 11:04:11 PM
Have you
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 21, 2009, 11:10:39 PM
If you use the Bible for evidence, then every single god exists. Allah, Thor, Ahura-Mazda, Zeus, etc...
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 21, 2009, 11:16:53 PM
yes

Ok.  Then I have some more questions.

Do you have a daughter?  If so, I might be interested in buying her as a slave.  However, I'm not familiar with bibical currency.  Do you know what the exchange rate would be?

I need to offer animal sacrifices to the lord to atone for my sins, but I'm squeamish about killing things.  Can't I just cook a couple hamburgers instead?

I know lots of people that worked on the sabbath day.  Do I really need to kill them myself, or can I just call the police? Likewise, do we really need to stone them to death?  Or can we just use lethal injection?

I got mildew in my place that won't go away, so I need to burn my place down.  But I live in an apartment, will my landlord be ok with this?  Do we need to burn down the entire apartment, or just my room?  Likewise, will the priest help me find another apartment?

I need to stay away from women going through menstruation, or I'll be unclean.  How can I ask a woman about this without offending them?  Or should we make it a law requiring them to wear a tag saying there're going through menstruation? Why isn't this a law already?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 11:25:08 PM
How long will you simple ones love your simple ways?   How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge? Condemnation is ready for scoffers,    and beating for the backs of fools.
Read the bible for yourself, you will get the knowledge you need. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 21, 2009, 11:29:51 PM
Read it, good piece of fiction. How long before you provide us with some substantial evidence for your claims?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 21, 2009, 11:33:54 PM
How long will you simple ones love your simple ways?   How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge? Condemnation is ready for scoffers,    and beating for the backs of fools.
Read the bible for yourself, you will get the knowledge you need. 


Answer my questions.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 21, 2009, 11:56:04 PM
You questions make no sense.  They just reveal that you have read or heard some things about the Bible that you don't understand.  You need to read the bible daily and God will answer the questions for you.  As I said your questions don't even make sense.  Jesus gave his life to atone for our sins.  So all we have to do now is Love the Lord God with all our heart and with all our soul.  You sound like a slave to sin.  There is no more natural slavery.  But there is spiritual slavery.  Spiritual slavery is when you are in darkness about the truth.  You deny the true and living God.  God is truth.  God is light and the truth shall make you free.  I will pray for you though, because I know that God loves you.  I pray that you get knowledge, wisdom and understanding.  I do not debate the Bible especially with unbelievers.  I will however answer serious questions, not cynical scoffing.  God does not have to prove anything to us.  He is God and that's that.  We are his children. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 22, 2009, 12:04:37 AM
No comments are no different from adherents of other religions. Why should we believe your claims?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 12:19:34 AM

I gave you comments.  One of the most important comments that I gave you is that Jesus died for our sins.  You don't have to believe me now.  But you will.  Because I prayed for you to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior and God answers prayers.  There will be a time in your life when the burdens you have to bear are so big that you know you cannot bear them by yourself and God will be there ready to carry the load for you and answer your cry.  Then you will believe me.  The word of God says that every knee will bow at the name of Jesus.  So I know you will bow. 

I would like to answer the question why should you believe? Well in this life we all know that it for a s brief time only.  Even 90 years is brief.  But we know if we want to live forever all we have to do is confess our sins, believe that Jesus was raised from the dead and is now seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession on our behalf and we shall be saved and have eternal life.  I want eternal life.  How about you? 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 22, 2009, 12:24:46 AM
You questions make no sense.  They just reveal that you have read or heard some things about the Bible that you don't understand.  You need to read the bible daily and God will answer the questions for you.  As I said your questions don't even make sense.  Jesus gave his life to atone for our sins.  So all we have to do now is Love the Lord God with all our heart and with all our soul.  You sound like a slave to sin.  There is no more natural slavery.  But there is spiritual slavery.  Spiritual slavery is when you are in darkness about the truth.  You deny the true and living God.  God is truth.  God is light and the truth shall make you free.  I will pray for you though, because I know that God loves you.  I pray that you get knowledge, wisdom and understanding.  I do not debate the Bible especially with unbelievers.  I will however answer serious questions, not cynical scoffing.  God does not have to prove anything to us.  He is God and that's that.  We are his children. 

Just thought that was worth reposting.  ;D
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 22, 2009, 12:26:06 AM
You questions make no sense.  They just reveal that you have read or heard some things about the Bible that you don't understand.  You need to read the bible daily and God will answer the questions for you.  As I said your questions don't even make sense.  Jesus gave his life to atone for our sins.  So all we have to do now is Love the Lord God with all our heart and with all our soul.  You sound like a slave to sin.  There is no more natural slavery.  But there is spiritual slavery.  Spiritual slavery is when you are in darkness about the truth.  You deny the true and living God.  God is truth.  God is light and the truth shall make you free.  I will pray for you though, because I know that God loves you.  I pray that you get knowledge, wisdom and understanding.  I do not debate the Bible especially with unbelievers.  I will however answer serious questions, not cynical scoffing.  God does not have to prove anything to us.  He is God and that's that.  We are his children. 

I said; answer my questions.  All of my questions relate to things god commanded us to do.  You said you read the entire bible.  You should know what I'm talking about, or do I need to bring up the relevant verses?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 22, 2009, 12:32:35 AM

I gave you comments.  One of the most important comments that I gave you is that Jesus died for our sins.  You don't have to believe me now.  But you will.  Because I prayed for you to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior and God answers prayers.  There will be a time in your life when the burdens you have to bear are so big that you know you cannot bear them by yourself and God will be there ready to carry the load for you and answer your cry.  Then you will believe me.  The word of God says that every knee will bow at the name of Jesus.  So I know you will bow. 

I would like to answer the question why should you believe? Well in this life we all know that it for a s brief time only.  Even 90 years is brief.  But we know if we want to live forever all we have to do is confess our sins, believe that Jesus was raised from the dead and is now seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession on our behalf and we shall be saved and have eternal life.  I want eternal life.  How about you? 

Again, you are missing the entire point. Why should I believe your claims over a Muslim's, a Hindu's, or a Zoroastrian's? Which holy book is right?

Immortality is quite a bold claim. Can you prove it?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 22, 2009, 12:39:42 AM
Just thought that was worth reposting.  ;D

Thanks, Jeeves.  It wasn't, but since you have...

You questions make no sense.

They make more sense than your response.

They just reveal that you have read or heard some things about the Bible that you don't understand.

Apparently he understands them quite well.

You need to read the bible daily and God will answer the questions for you.

Not good enough.  Apparently you have reconciled these issues in your mind, so tell us how you were able to achieve that.  Is it just some magic that comes over the reader so all these crazy things that didn't make sense before suddenly do?

As I said your questions don't even make sense.  Jesus gave his life to atone for our sins.  So all we have to do now is Love the Lord God with all our heart and with all our soul.

How can someone love something that doesn't seem to exist?  In order for me to love something that something has to have a positive impact in my life.  So far the only impact God has had in my life has been negative, in the form of believers pushing their garbage on me, telling me how to live my life and trying to manipulate me in various ways.  Actually, I should revise that a little.  God, the invisible being, has zero impact on my life, positive or negative.  Followers of God have had a negative impact on my life.

You sound like a slave to sin.

You sound like a slave to an invisible being that doesn't appear to exist in any way, shape or form.

There is no more natural slavery.  But there is spiritual slavery.  Spiritual slavery is when you are in darkness about the truth.  You deny the true and living God.  God is truth.  God is light and the truth shall make you free.  I will pray for you though, because I know that God loves you.  I pray that you get knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

Your arrogance is really quite staggering.

I do not debate the Bible especially with unbelievers.

Thereby ensuring that you will stay in your little bubble of biblical bliss.  How can you possibly be so sure about God when you haven't got the guts to challenge the unbelievers?  You've got God on your side, you shouldn't be such a coward.  Your faith must be very weak.

I will however answer serious questions, not cynical scoffing.  God does not have to prove anything to us.  He is God and that's that.  We are his children. 

So you are going to use the "cynical scoffing" excuse to dodge anything that represents a serious challenge to your beliefs?  That figures.  How about if you do some cynical scoffing of your own?  Can we ignore that?  You won't claim victory if we ignore your cynical scoffing, right?  If you make self-righteous and arrogant statements, like the majority of this post that I am responding to, can we ignore them?

Actually, I wouldn't ignore them, no matter what you told me.  I'm pretty confident that there isn't anything in your religion that I can't at least hold my own in a debate against, and I don't have God on my side.  Frankly, I'm glad I don't have God on my side--He's a huge liability in a debate.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 22, 2009, 12:40:00 AM
Fridge,

What one proof would you want that would make you believein the Christian God? Aside from the obvious amputee thing......obviously if an amputee were miraculously heald you would question, "yeah, which God?" I'm sorry for the presumption, but it seemed relevant to my question. I mean no disrespect by it.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 12:44:57 AM
YES bring up the relevant verses and I will answer your questions. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 22, 2009, 12:59:46 AM
Fridge,

What one proof would you want that would make you believein the Christian God? Aside from the obvious amputee thing......obviously if an amputee were miraculously heald you would question, "yeah, which God?" I'm sorry for the presumption, but it seemed relevant to my question. I mean no disrespect by it.

To believe that he exists? Well, anything objective that would be without ambiguity. The cure for cancer written with clouds, amputees healed spontaneously on video, a $1 million check in my mailbox tomorrow, etc.

To worship this guy? Sorry, that's stretching my morals very thin.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 22, 2009, 01:05:15 AM


To believe that he exists? Well, anything objective that would be without ambiguity. The cure for cancer written with clouds, amputees healed spontaneously on video, a $1 million check in my mailbox tomorrow, etc. 

Will you take a post dated check? The Canadians have found a cure for lung cancer. wondering "how much does a sky writer cost, and where are those Canadians?" Sure, I'll make a video this week, can't prove it's real.

if that's all you need, I should get to work on it.

Worshiping him, well, that'll come later after you believe.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 22, 2009, 01:13:51 AM


To believe that he exists? Well, anything objective that would be without ambiguity. The cure for cancer written with clouds, amputees healed spontaneously on video, a $1 million check in my mailbox tomorrow, etc. 

Will you take a post dated check? The Canadians have found a cure for lung cancer. wondering "how much does a sky writer cost, and where are those Canadians?" Sure, I'll make a video this week, can't prove it's real.

if that's all you need, I should get to work on it.

Worshiping him, well, that'll come later after you believe.

Well, you've just let me know that it's going to be you. That's why I said something without ambiguity. Find a well known amputee, get several news cameras on him, and perform the miracle so everyone can see.

And you're wrong about the worship. I used to believe god exists, a long time ago, but I never worshipped him. I can believe a despot exists, but I won't worship him.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 01:25:50 AM
You need to read my original post again.  I told you God does not grow limbs and I explained why.  Read it again.  God is not Santa Claus.  He is true and living God.  He answers prayer not grant wishes. Amputees are healed because if they kept a diseased or wounded limb they would die.  With the limb removed, they have life on this earth.  Read the post again.  Pray for understanding.  I pray for your understanding. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 22, 2009, 01:59:12 AM
Why should I believe your claims over a Muslim's, a Hindu's, or a Zoroastrian's? Which holy book is right?

And you never answered my question... what distinguishes your god not healing amputees from any other god not healing amputees? The justifications are exactly the same.

Why won't Allah heal amputees? Why won't Ahura-Mazda heal amputees? Why won't Zeus heal amputees? The reason they don't is the same reason why your god doesn't.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: loner on March 22, 2009, 05:38:39 AM
Hahahah the first post actually made me laugh a little
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 22, 2009, 06:18:32 AM
So all we have to go by in this Jesus belief is an old compilation of books decided upon by a committee? Could you give us just a tad more evidence that this Jesus character, as portrayed in the bible, ever existed?

He still exists today.  He is just in heaven praying for you right now.  One evidence that Jesus walked with man is the apostle Paul.  He wrote a lot of the New Testament and in it he stated he saw and walked with Jesus.  Paul started out as a non believer and then once converted become one of the most prolific and best promoters of God (if you will).  He did it all from a jail cell.  Jesus and God exists another evidence is that they wake you up every morning.  You don't have to wake up.  You could have been dead.  But by the grace of God you still have lift on this earth.  Just ask him to come into your heart and he will show you for yourself that he still lives.  I dare you to ask him.

What part of "an old compilation of books decided upon by a committee" (aka the Bible) did you not understand? I asked for evidence that the biblical Jesus ever existed and you horribly failed to provide it. I therefore conclude that the bibilcal Jesus is a hoax and you are in the same boat with him.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 22, 2009, 10:20:05 AM
YES bring up the relevant verses and I will answer your questions. 

Alright, but I find it strange you don't know what I'm talking about, considering you've read the bible.

On selling/buying girls: Exodus 21:7-11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2021:7-11;&version=31;)

On animal sacrifices: Leviticus 1-7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%201-7;&version=31;)

On the sabbath day: Exodus 35: 1-3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2035:%201-3;&version=31;) Numbers 15: 32-36 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2015:%2032-36;&version=31;)

On mildew: Leviticus 13: 47-59 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2013:%2047-59;&version=31;)

This is talking about mildew on clothing and leather, but how does this apply if I have mildew on my wall or another place?  Do I need to burn down my place then?  Why doesn't god prescribe any mildew prevention?  Or any mildew cure-all?

On menstruation:  Leviticus 15: 19-33 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2015:%2019-33;&version=31;)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 12:50:31 PM
A mocker seeks wisdom and never finds it,but knowledge comes easily to those with understanding. Are you a mocker?  I am reminded of the story when Jesus was in the desert Satan came and tried to tempt him saying if you be God, then do this, do that.  Are you trying to tempt God?  Not me, because I am a child of God not God.  I am just writing what the word of God says, so your argument is not with me, it is with God.

Leviticus 15: 19-33 Those were customs and ceremonies in Old Testament times before the coming of Jesus. Separating the woman was symbolic of how God is separated from us when we sin.  But today we do not follow those customs because Jesus came and we were atoned for our sins, however we are still separated from God when we sin.  All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  All we have to do is repent (turn away) from our sin and ask God’s forgiveness and because of the blood of Jesus he will forgive us.
 
Leviticus 1-7--There is in these things a type of the sufferings of the Son of God, who was to be a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world? The burning body of an animal was but a faint representation of that everlasting misery, which we all have deserved; and which our blessed Lord bore in his body and in his soul, when he died under the load of our iniquities. The beast to be offered must be without blemish. This signified the strength and purity that were in Christ, and the holy life that should be in his people. Jesus came and paid the ultimate sacrifice, so we no longer have to offer up burnt offerings.

Numbers 15; Again we do not stone people for breaking the Sabbath day.  Jesus came and died for our sins. It is a symbolic representation of what happens when we sin.  The wages of sin is death.  God doesn’t kill us, but the sin does.  There may not be a physical death, but something in the sinner’s life dies.  For instance, when one commits adultery, a marriage could die as a result of it.  I said could not necessarily.  We can choose the sin, but not the consequence.  Again we should read the bible daily and go do a bible believing, bible teaching church.  If you have to work on Sunday, there are ways in this day and time that you can get the messages: tapes, cds, or other material that is being preached.  Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. It is important to spend time with God.
Leviticus 13:47-59:  The reference to mildew is referring to contamination, again another symbolic representation of sin.  God does not want us to live in sin.  Jesus died for us so that we do not have to live in sin. 

I think you are being cynical and scoffing at the word of God.  That’s okay because the apostle Paul persecuted (actually killed Christians) before he became saved.  You are one of God’s children and he loves you no matter what.  But one day you will need him and he will be there for you.  Every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus.  God loves you.  Don't be a mocker.

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 01:04:45 PM
Someone  asked the question why my God and not some other God like allah or  whatever?  I can't find the post, but the answer is that there has never been another God that can raise the dead, perform the miracles that Jesus performed and is still performing, creates life.  There is only one all knowing, all powerful, ever present God and he heals amputees.  Read the first post if you need to.  Don't argue with me, the battle is not mine, but it's the Lord.  He is the one that can make blind eyes see. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 22, 2009, 01:20:53 PM
Leviticus 15: 19-33 Those were customs and ceremonies in Old Testament times before the coming of Jesus. Separating the woman was symbolic of how God is separated from us when we sin.  But today we do not follow those customs because Jesus came and we were atoned for our sins, however we are still separated from God when we sin.  All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  All we have to do is repent (turn away) from our sin and ask God’s forgiveness and because of the blood of Jesus he will forgive us.

Three questions (with the above in mind as well as your other comments);

1. Why did God change?

2. Why were those previous practices valid?

3. Why not just discard the OT as an irrelevant curiosity?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 22, 2009, 01:24:49 PM
Someone  asked the question why my God and not some other God like allah or  whatever?  I can't find the post, but the answer is that there has never been another God that can raise the dead, perform the miracles that Jesus performed and is still performing, creates life.  There is only one all knowing, all powerful, ever present God and he heals amputees.  Read the first post if you need to.  Don't argue with me, the battle is not mine, but it's the Lord.  He is the one that can make blind eyes see.

Yet, you are here.  Not your deity.  You are making those claims to us.  So, the argument -- if any -- does indeed fall to you.

As for the specific claims;

"there has never been another God that;

1. "can raise the dead"

2. "perform the miracles that Jesus performed"

3. "and is still performing"

4. "creates life".

Do you want to actually stand by those claims, or do you want to reconsider?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 22, 2009, 01:40:44 PM
Someone  asked the question why my God and not some other God like allah or  whatever?  I can't find the post, but the answer is that there has never been another God that can raise the dead, perform the miracles that Jesus performed and is still performing, creates life.  There is only one all knowing, all powerful, ever present God and he heals amputees.  Read the first post if you need to.  Don't argue with me, the battle is not mine, but it's the Lord.  He is the one that can make blind eyes see. 

You're just trotting out your ignorance of mythology here. If you claim that Jesus is performing miracles now, prove it. It shouldn't be too hard.

Jesus is more of a collage character. Have you even researched this beyond your Bible? Take a look at all of the gods that have similar characteristics. (http://one-faith-of-god.org/religion_christianity/overview.htm) Check out the parallels between Jesus and Horus here (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm), and the similarities between Jesus and Krishna here (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr.htm). Read about the man who began his ministry at age 7, baptized in water at age 30 and was visited by the light of god, had difficulty spreading his gospels because of competing priests, and so on. His name is Zarathushtra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster), but I'm sure you've heard about him. Zoroastrianism is still around today.

Performing miracles was common to a number of figures in mythology. Why should I believe your claims over theirs?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 22, 2009, 01:51:20 PM
Well played Fridge, well played


(OMG, we have the rolling eyes!!!!  &) !!!)


Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 22, 2009, 01:54:37 PM
Well played Fridge, well played


(OMG, we hate the rolling eyes!!!!  &) !!!)

Thanks  ;D. Don't you mean, 'have'?  :D
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 01:55:07 PM
Emily

God is waiting for you.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 22, 2009, 02:08:48 PM
Well played Fridge, well played


(OMG, we hate the rolling eyes!!!!  &) !!!)

Thanks  ;D. Don't you mean, 'have'?  :D

Oh, well played again! :)

Truth, first you have to successfully explain the links presented by Fridge. During the BC era is a common practice to basically rip off other religions, add in a few words, and presto, you have a new religion. As far as the bible goes, it is amazing that it was able to be compiled of books that were written centuries apart. However, the compiling was done by people. Also, the first gospels were written, not printed, so how can you say for certain that what's printed in the bible was the original statement made by the apostles, or anyone else who authors the books in the OT.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 03:08:16 PM
Obviously you are confused.  God is not the author of confusion.  Give your life to Jesus and God will give you knowledge, wisdom, and understanding.  I did answer Fridge's questions.  Look for them on the threads.  God loves you and he is waiting for you. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Ambassador Pony on March 22, 2009, 03:12:18 PM
Turth, do you know anthing about history at all? Maybe you took a night course one time?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 03:14:58 PM
What's your point???
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Ambassador Pony on March 22, 2009, 03:16:50 PM
I want to know if you know anything about history.

Is it now safe to assume you are uneducated?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 22, 2009, 03:20:08 PM
Truth; you've dismissed my questions by saying those things don't apply anymore.  Ok, then I have some more question for you.

Do you follow the ten commandments?

If yes; then should everyone else follow them?

If yes, then why does this still apply towards us, but not anything else in the OT?

Are you aware of the other set of ten commandments that god gave Moses, and that which Moses placed in the ark?  If so, could you direct me to the passage that contants them?  I'm just curious if you're aware of them.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 22, 2009, 03:27:17 PM
Here is a historical question for you: Did you know that dozens of other cultures/religions have a deluge myth. Another part of the whole "rip of effect" religion has.

Also, here is a question that I've always found interesting. If god loves us all, and the ONLY way to get to heaven is by knowing god, then what about the people who lived in Mesoamerica during Christ's time? Those people died without knowing Jesus and are from a christian perspective in hell. Were they forgotten?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 03:45:12 PM

People before Christ they were under the law and they had to obey God or they were condemned.  But we do not know what relationship a person had with God at the very end of their life.  Because God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.  He is a forgiving God.  So we do not know who he forgave or not.  So I believe those that believed and received God were saved.  Those that do not believe and are not saved were condemned.  The same as it is today after Jesus. When we sin, we are cut off from God, but he is readily and eagerly awaiting for us to repent and turn to him.  Just as God is waiting for you Emily because he cares for you. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 22, 2009, 04:05:51 PM
Truth; answer my questions.

Do you follow the ten commandments?

If yes; then should everyone else follow them?

If yes, then why does this still apply towards us, but not anything else in the OT?

Are you aware of the other set of ten commandments that god gave Moses, and that which Moses placed in the ark?  If so, could you direct me to the passage that contants them?  I'm just curious if you're aware of them.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 22, 2009, 04:12:59 PM
Perhaps I should've worded my question better.

What I am asking is this: The people in Mesoamerica, (Mayan, Aztec and others) had their own religious beliefs. They weren't sinning against god in the OT times, or even in the NT times, they just didn't know about Jesus because it happened on a different continent, were communication between the two was not practical, and in fact the Mesoamericans probably thought they were alone in the world. They followed their own religious scripture and worshiped their own religious god(s). It seems they were forgotten about by Jesus. Jesus only stayed around the Middle East, and the apostles only preached in the surrounding countries. The apostles probably didn't know what was happening across the Atlantic.

(BTW, I grew up in a religious family, so I know about god and his love and promises and everything else)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 04:29:12 PM
Really my answer does not change much.  We do not know how God revealed himself to these people.  But we know he did.  They did not have to know about Jesus.  They had to know about the true and living God.  Jesus came afterward or even didn't go into all the world as you said.  But that doesn't mean that God forgot about the people.  It is only after Jesus that we must know Jesus and that he died for our sins, was raised from the dead on the third day and is not seated at the right hand of the Father today making intercession on our behalf.  I do not know what happened to these people for sure, but can assume from the fact that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, that if they lived by the law, they were saved.  If they did not live by the law they were not saved.  By saved in this instance I mean knowing God. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 22, 2009, 04:32:01 PM
Really my answer does not change much.  We do not know how God revealed himself to these people.  But we know he did.  They did not have to know about Jesus.  They had to know about the true and living God.  Jesus came afterward or even didn't go into all the world as you said.  But that doesn't mean that God forgot about the people.  It is only after Jesus that we must know Jesus and that he died for our sins, was raised from the dead on the third day and is not seated at the right hand of the Father today making intercession on our behalf.  I do not know what happened to these people for sure, but can assume from the fact that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, that if they lived by the law, they were saved.  If they did not live by the law they were not saved.  By saved in this instance I mean knowing God. 

That's a terrible answer. Are you claiming that every religion worships the same god?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 04:36:22 PM
No not every religion does not worship the same God.  But I am saying that there is only one Religion that matters and that is Christianity.  Christianity is the only where God can create life.  It's the only one that can raise someone from the dead and ascend them into heaven.  No one gets into heaven except by Jesus Christ.  Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 22, 2009, 04:39:41 PM
No not every religion does not worship the same God.  But I am saying that there is only one Religion that matters and that is Christianity.  Christianity is the only where God can create life.  It's the only one that can raise someone from the dead and ascend them into heaven.  No one gets into heaven except by Jesus Christ.  Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. 

Another terrible answer. Every religion makes the same claim you just made. Who is right, and why?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 22, 2009, 04:41:58 PM
No not every religion does not worship the same God.  But I am saying that there is only one Religion that matters and that is Christianity.  Christianity is the only where God can create life.  It's the only one that can raise someone from the dead and ascend them into heaven.  No one gets into heaven except by Jesus Christ.  Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. 

But early christianity was localized in the Middle East, and then is spread. It took hundreds of years, but it evidently spread to modern day Russian, all over africa, to china, etc. That means hundreds of years went by and thousands of people died without knowing how to get into heaven. (and a couple centuries to reach the americas). That's not fair for those people who were living in the civilizations that didn't know God or Jesus. Either god willfully allowed those people to die, or they god into heaven, even though they didn't worship bible god,  because god felt bad for them because it was taking so long for the word of god to reach them.

Also, answer Aaron's question.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 04:51:07 PM
If you have a problem with early Christianity and how God handled it, you can take it up with him.  I know the bible, but I am not a biblical scholar.  That is why you should go to a bible believing bible teaching church.  God can answer those questions if you really them to be answered before you can serve him.  I am satisfied with the fact that Jesus died for me and was raised from the dead and is now seated at God's right hand making intercession on my behalf.  God's ways are not my ways.  God's thoughts are not my thoughts. 

I think I have answered all the questions posed to me.  Which one are you referring to?

I get the impression that you are a believer, but you are just upset with God because you don't understand his ways.  The main thing to remember is that he loves you and he will answer any question that you have.  So I pray that he will reveal to you an answer that satisfies your Spirit.  God is your portion. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 22, 2009, 05:01:48 PM
Truth; answer my questions.

Do you follow the ten commandments?

If yes; then should everyone else follow them?

If yes, then why does this still apply towards us, but not anything else in the OT?

Are you aware of the other set of ten commandments that god gave Moses, and that which Moses placed in the ark?  If so, could you direct me to the passage that contants them?  I'm just curious if you're aware of them.

Here is Aaron's question. If you did answer this question, post a link to where, or kindly re-answer it.
Quote
I get the impression that you are a believer, but you are just upset with God because you don't understand his ways
I was once a believer but I am not anymore. I study science and I use what I've learned when making judgments about whether or not god is real.

I think Dr. Tyson said it best.(I adore this man, and he's a personal hero of mine.  :-*)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJNus-kR9aM[/youtube]

He is saying that there might be a god, however the gods that there have been (Allah, bible god, the gods of the Romans and Greeks, amongst other gods) are not the true god(s) that created everything.



Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 05:13:48 PM
Excuse me--but he's a fool.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 22, 2009, 05:22:54 PM
Excuse me--but he's a fool.

And your rebuttal is just shining with wisdom.  &)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 05:30:08 PM
Ha Ha.  Well I guess I should have said that no man is greater than God, and I do not listen to "so called experts" that think they know about God, but cannot use the bible as a basis for their argument.  God created science through men.  Without him, there would be no science.  He is the creator of all.  With me everything begins and ends with the word of God.  Science is necessary, but it should not discount the existence of God.  What do you plan to do at the end of your life?  Do you plan to just end it there or would you like to live forever.  Me, I want to live forever.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: dmnemaine on March 22, 2009, 05:31:34 PM
Ha Ha.  Well I guess I should have said that no man is greater than God, and I do not listen to "so called experts" that think they know about God, but cannot use the bible as a basis for their argument.  God created science through men.  Without him, there would be no science.  He is the creator of all.  With me everything begins and ends with the word of God.  Science is necessary, but it should not discount the existence of God.  What do you plan to do at the end of your life?  Do you plan to just end it there or would you like to live forever.  Me, I want to live forever.

Who wouldn't want to live forever?  Unfortunately, wishful thinking doesn't make it so.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 22, 2009, 05:35:04 PM
Ha Ha.  Well I guess I should have said that no man is greater than God, and I do not listen to "so called experts" that think they know about God, but cannot use the bible as a basis for their argument.  God created science through men.  Without him, there would be no science.  He is the creator of all.  With me everything begins and ends with the word of God.  Science is necessary, but it should not discount the existence of God.  What do you plan to do at the end of your life?  Do you plan to just end it there or would you like to live forever.  Me, I want to live forever.

Yeah and I want a million bucks too, not to mention built in laser cannons and superhuman abilities. Maybe I'll ask Santa, he has a better track record of answering prayers.

Take off your Bible goggles and welcome to reality.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 05:41:07 PM
You do not need God to get a million bucks, and the other things you specified.  What you need God for is to have peace, love, joy, gentleness, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and self control.  God is definitely not Santa Claus.  He's better than Santa Claus.  He can give you eternal life.  Are you interested?  You did not answer my question of what do you plan to do at the end of your life?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 22, 2009, 05:43:17 PM
Quote
Excuse me--but he's a fool.

 :'(
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 05:44:45 PM
Ha Ha Emily.

Emily I have the same question for you.  Can you answer the question that what do you plan for yourself at the end of your life on this world?  Is it just over or do you want eternal life?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 22, 2009, 05:47:24 PM
Truth, answer my questions.  If the answer is no, just say so.  If the answer is yes, then explain.

Truth; answer my questions.

Do you follow the ten commandments?

If yes; then should everyone else follow them?

If yes, then why does this still apply towards us, but not anything else in the OT?

Are you aware of the other set of ten commandments that god gave Moses, and that which Moses placed in the ark?  If so, could you direct me to the passage that contants them?  I'm just curious if you're aware of them.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 22, 2009, 05:49:56 PM
Quote
What you need God for is to have peace, love, joy, gentleness, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and self control.

But I have these things without god. I have a loving fiance, loving friends, a caring family. You don't need god to feel good about yourself.

Let me ask you something, how old is the earth? I know the answer, but I want you to tell me what you think.

Quote
Can you answer the question that what do you plan for yourself at the end of your life on this world?  Is it just over or do you want eternal life?
Well I want to be cremated and shot off into space (seriously).
Life is just over. It's that simple. I don't believe in eternity, I don't believe in ghosts and I sure as hell don't believe in heaven.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 05:51:33 PM
ok
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Ambassador Pony on March 22, 2009, 06:03:42 PM
In the absence of a response, I think uneducated is certainly in the right ballpark. Added to that a significant degree of ignorance, and arrogance. External locus of control, certainly.

 

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 06:12:31 PM
What are you talking about?  You mean I should respond when someone declares they do not believe in heaven?  Well I think God will respond accordingly.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Astreja on March 22, 2009, 06:34:29 PM
Yeah he desires that you not perish in hell, but he requires that you believe that Jesus is his Son and that he was raised from the dead and is not seated at his right hand making intercession on your behalf.

I do not believe.   Period.  If Jesus ever existed as a human being, I do believe that his mortal remains lie in a mass grave outside Jerusalem.  The reason for this is quite simple:  To the best of my knowledge, the Romans were not in the habit of handing over the bodies of convicted criminals for private burial.

Furthermore, I do not think that he, or anyone else, ever came back to life.

And I reject the concept of someone dying for me for any reason whatsoever.  Given the choice between accepting substitutionary atonement in lieu of paying my own debts, and going to Hell... Bring on the flames.  I choose of my own free will to go there, in solidarity with all other sentient beings so condemned.  For me, Heaven is permanently off the menu on moral grounds.

Edited to add:  All the above is a moot point.  I do not actually believe in either Heaven or Hell, nor do I believe in the god of the Bible. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Ambassador Pony on March 22, 2009, 06:37:56 PM
What are you talking about?  You mean I should respond when someone declares they do not believe in heaven?  Well I think God will respond accordingly.

In the absence of a response to my question.

Pay attention.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 06:40:53 PM
I'm sorry but I don't know what your question is? Can you tell me again?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 22, 2009, 06:48:08 PM
I think Pony is revering to this question,
Quote
Turth, do you know anthing about history at all? Maybe you took a night course one time?

I'd like to know the answer also. While I can't speak for Pony, he might be referring to ancient history, not who discovered america, or when the battle at Gettysburg was.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 22, 2009, 06:48:26 PM
What are you talking about?  You mean I should respond when someone declares they do not believe in heaven?  Well I think God will respond accordingly.

He hasn't responded in at least 1900 years. What makes you think he will respond now?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Ambassador Pony on March 22, 2009, 06:53:25 PM
I think Pony is revering to this question,
Quote
Turth, do you know anthing about history at all? Maybe you took a night course one time?

I'd like to know the answer also. While I can't speak for Pony, he might be referring to ancient history, not who discovered america, or when the battle at Gettysburg was.

Yes, Emily, thank you.

Truth speaks as if he operates completely ignorant of reality.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 22, 2009, 06:56:35 PM
What are you talking about?  You mean I should respond when someone declares they do not believe in heaven?  Well I think God will respond accordingly.

He hasn't responded in at least 1900 years. What makes you think he will respond now?
You are sadly mistaken.  God responds to us every day.  He will respond to you when you call.  He's just waiting.  How do you know the voice of God.  It is that still small voice you hear in your inner man.  Also you can read the Bible to see what God has to say.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 22, 2009, 06:59:21 PM
He hasn't responded in at least 1900 years. What makes you think he will respond now?
You are sadly mistaken.  God responds to us every day. 

How so? Voices in your head? Writing in the sky? Burnt images of Mary and Jesus in toast?

Quote
He will respond to you when you call.  He's just waiting.  How do you know the voice of God.  It is that still small voice you hear in your inner man.  Also you can read the Bible to see what God has to say.

That voice you hear is yourself. Get over it.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Astreja on March 22, 2009, 07:12:44 PM
How do you know the voice of God.  It is that still small voice you hear in your inner man.

Burden of proof is upon you.  Please provide evidence that this 'voice' is coming from an unproven, undetectable supernatural entity, and is not merely the natural result of hemisphere-to-hemisphere communications within the physical brain.

Quote
Also you can read the Bible to see what God has to say.

Apparently... 'Kill the Amalekites.'  >:(
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on March 22, 2009, 07:26:40 PM
You are sadly mistaken.  God responds to us every day.  He will respond to you when you call.  He's just waiting.  How do you know the voice of God.  It is that still small voice you hear in your inner man.  Also you can read the Bible to see what God has to say.

"You will find that it is you who are mistaken — about a great many things."

That "still small voice you hear in your inner man" - on what grounds do you assert that it is God, as opposed to a part of your own mental processes? It appears to me that you are elevating an element of your own psyche to godhood - IOW, it is a delusion, and a pretty dangerous one at that.

As for reading the Bible to see what God has to say - on what grounds do you assert that God had anything to do with that patchwork of sixty-six books of fiction, priestly history, wisdom-sayings and allegories at all?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 22, 2009, 09:38:45 PM
Truth, answer my questions please.  If you already answered these questions, then point me to it.  If not, than please answer them.

Do you follow the ten commandments?

If yes; then should everyone else follow them?

If yes, then why does this still apply towards us, but not anything else in the OT?

Are you aware of the other set of ten commandments that god gave Moses, and that which Moses placed in the ark?  If so, could you direct me to the passage that contants them?  I'm just curious if you're aware of them.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 23, 2009, 05:40:17 AM
Aaron I have answered your question two times already.  I can't find it on the various threads.  Maybe you can if you look for it.  It was  quite a lengthy answer. so I am not inclined to put it up a third time. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 23, 2009, 08:38:49 AM
Aaron I have answered your question two times already.  I can't find it on the various threads.  Maybe you can if you look for it.  It was  quite a lengthy answer. so I am not inclined to put it up a third time. 

Truth, here are all 43 of your posts:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1567;sa=showPosts (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1567;sa=showPosts)

I looked through them briefly and didn't see an answer to Aaron's questions.  Maybe you can find the answers and provide us the link?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 23, 2009, 09:31:47 AM
Unanswered or unaddressed;

Leviticus 15: 19-33 Those were customs and ceremonies in Old Testament times before the coming of Jesus. Separating the woman was symbolic of how God is separated from us when we sin.  But today we do not follow those customs because Jesus came and we were atoned for our sins, however we are still separated from God when we sin.  All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  All we have to do is repent (turn away) from our sin and ask God’s forgiveness and because of the blood of Jesus he will forgive us.

Three questions (with the above in mind as well as your other comments);

1. Why did God change?

2. Why were those previous practices valid?

3. Why not just discard the OT as an irrelevant curiosity?

Someone  asked the question why my God and not some other God like allah or  whatever?  I can't find the post, but the answer is that there has never been another God that can raise the dead, perform the miracles that Jesus performed and is still performing, creates life.  There is only one all knowing, all powerful, ever present God and he heals amputees.  Read the first post if you need to.  Don't argue with me, the battle is not mine, but it's the Lord.  He is the one that can make blind eyes see.

Yet, you are here.  Not your deity.  You are making those claims to us.  So, the argument -- if any -- does indeed fall to you.

As for the specific claims;

"there has never been another God that;

1. "can raise the dead"

2. "perform the miracles that Jesus performed"

3. "and is still performing"

4. "creates life".

Do you want to actually stand by those claims, or do you want to reconsider?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: gonegolfing on March 23, 2009, 10:29:26 AM
Quote
This means he can take if he desires not, but he doesn't always desire.

You're right. Correction on my part, he desires all amputees, and basically anybody that never gets healing, to suffer. If he desired for them to not suffer, he would have healed them.

God answers prayer.  God does not desire anyone to suffer and never did I say that.  I know it is hard to understand, but when you become a believer, it will be clearer.  Sometimes people are not healed, they just die in the natural.  It doesn't mean that they weren't healed.  If they are believers they will have eternal life and will never suffer again.  If they are non believer...Oh well.   Now even though some people do not choose God, he desires that everyone chooses him.  But he gave us free will so it is up to us what we choose. 

So are you saying that there should be no suffering in the world?  I agree with you on that, but this is not the final stop we have to always remember, that there is a world where there is no more suffering...it's a place called heaven. 

I got to this post and thought "this is enough of this nonsense."

Oh well ? Oh Well ? That's what you think of individuals who don't go along with the belief in your imaginary friend ? "It's just as well that they're off to the brimstone abyss...they're getting what they deserve". That's what your thinking correct ? That us non believers are going to do a slow and eternal roast ? ..........You make me sick.

Your subtle little "Oh Well" shows me your true colours, and is one of the primary reasons why I don't do discussions with hacks like you that hold to such disgusting and vile doctrines.


Other than that, have a nice day  ;)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 23, 2009, 11:08:16 AM

Your argument should be with God and not me.  I do not send anyone to hell.  I, like God, do not wish anyone perish.  I wish that all will be saved.  But God did give us free will and we have to make that choice.  No matter how you feel God loves you and it's not too late to turn to him. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 23, 2009, 11:22:58 AM

Your argument should be with God and not me.  I do not send anyone to hell.  I, like God, do not wish anyone perish.  I wish that all will be saved.  But God did give us free will and we have to make that choice.  No matter how you feel God loves you and it's not too late to turn to him. 

No, you don't send anyone to hell, but your blasé attitude towards the suffering of untold billions of "lost souls" is highly disturbing.  You seem to have no concern for the fact that all these people are going to suffer for eternity.  If your utter lack of sympathy is emblematic of Christians, then you can bet I won't be joining your cult.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 23, 2009, 11:28:43 AM
You are so wrong.  Why do you think I'm on this site.  It is to introduce Jesus, the Way, the Truth, and the Light to unbelievers.  Maybe no one has introduced them to Jesus.  Re-evaluate your point.  It is wrong. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 23, 2009, 12:54:56 PM
You are so wrong.  Why do you think I'm on this site.  It is to introduce Jesus, the Way, the Truth, and the Light to unbelievers.  Maybe no one has introduced them to Jesus.  Re-evaluate your point.  It is wrong. 

Do you honestly think no one has heard of Jesus before? Do you think we've been living on an island and you've come here with some brilliant insight? Get out of your cave, buddy. Most of us, if not all, have been adherents to a religion just like you, before becoming atheists/agnostics. The majority of us know more than you about your own beliefs. What's next, you're going to quote-mine the Bible, give us John 3:16 as if we've never heard it before? You're going to have to try a little harder to convert people. Read the threads here before you post, you're just recycling the same old arguments we've been hearing for years.  &)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 23, 2009, 01:26:09 PM
I noticed that you never answer my question Fridge.  What do you have planned for yourself at the end of this life on this world? You can receive the free gift of eternal life.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 23, 2009, 01:29:16 PM
What do you have planned for yourself at the end of this life on this world?

Well, I planned on dying. Do you have a better offer?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 23, 2009, 01:56:10 PM
I noticed that you never answer my question Fridge.  What do you have planned for yourself at the end of this life on this world? You can receive the free gift of eternal life.

I noticed that you never answer my question Truth.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 23, 2009, 02:02:32 PM
God has a better offer.  He promises that you can have eternal life.  Just change your heart towards him and recognize him as Lord and Savior.  Confess with your mouth that you are a sinner (as we all are).  Confess that you believe that Jesus died for our sins and he was raised from the dead and is now seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession on your behalf.  Why risk it? If there's a possibility of of it why not put your name in the Lamb's book of life. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 23, 2009, 02:08:17 PM
God has a better offer.  He promises that you can have eternal life.  Just change your heart towards him and recognize him as Lord and Savior.  Confess with your mouth that you are a sinner (as we all are).  Confess that you believe that Jesus died for our sins and he was raised from the dead and is now seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession on your behalf.  Why risk it? If there's a possibility of of it why not put your name in the Lamb's book of life. 

HOLY GOD DAMN I CAN SEE!



I'm being serious, I've heard it a million times. You're bringing nothing new to the table here, save the pascal's wager and preaching. &)

Prove to me the snake oil works.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 23, 2009, 02:10:15 PM
God has a better offer.  He promises that you can have eternal life.  Just change your heart towards him and recognize him as Lord and Savior.  Confess with your mouth that you are a sinner (as we all are).  Confess that you believe that Jesus died for our sins and he was raised from the dead and is now seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession on your behalf.  Why risk it? If there's a possibility of of it why not put your name in the Lamb's book of life. 

Pascal's wager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager)

Why not worship Baal?  Why risk offending him?

Why not worship Apollo?  Why risk offending him?

Why not worship Zeus?  Why risk offending him?

Why not worship Ra?  Why risk offending him?

Why not worship Horus?  Why risk offending him?


Also, you still have yet to answer mine and other people questions.  At this point, I can only conclude that you're deliberately avoiding them.  Which suggust to me that either your arguments are weak, or you're unable to articulate your arguments and you're trying to hide this.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 23, 2009, 02:30:09 PM

The reason you should not serve those other gods is because they do not offer the gift of eternal life.  The have never raised a dead man from the grave and ascended him to heaven. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 23, 2009, 02:34:06 PM
God has a better offer.  He promises that you can have eternal life.  Just change your heart towards him and recognize him as Lord and Savior.  Confess with your mouth that you are a sinner (as we all are).  Confess that you believe that Jesus died for our sins and he was raised from the dead and is now seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession on your behalf.  Why risk it? If there's a possibility of of it why not put your name in the Lamb's book of life. 

HOLY GOD DAMN I CAN SEE!



I'm being serious, I've heard it a million times. You're bringing nothing new to the table here, save the pascal's wager and
preaching. &)


Prove to me the snake oil works.

You have heard it a million times because God is trying to get your attention.  He loves you and he desires that you not perish, but live your life for me and tell people about him. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on March 23, 2009, 03:11:47 PM
Actually, the ones I see seeking attention are God's self-appointed spokespersons - not God.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 23, 2009, 03:19:14 PM

The reason you should not serve those other gods is because they do not offer the gift of eternal life.  The have never raised a dead man from the grave and ascended him to heaven. 

Neither has your god, near as I can tell.  Your religion is 100% on par with all religions in that they all make grandiose claims and promises backed up with nothing but more claims and promises.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 23, 2009, 03:35:41 PM
God has a better offer.  He promises that you can have eternal life.  Just change your heart towards him and recognize him as Lord and Savior.  Confess with your mouth that you are a sinner (as we all are).  Confess that you believe that Jesus died for our sins and he was raised from the dead and is now seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession on your behalf.  Why risk it? If there's a possibility of of it why not put your name in the Lamb's book of life.

Was Pascal's Wager the reason why you became and/or remain a Christian?

If not, as it was not convincing to you, why mention it to non-Christians?  What would be your goal?

Additionally;

I noticed that you never answer my question Fridge.  What do you have planned for yourself at the end of this life on this world? You can receive the free gift of eternal life.

I noticed that you never answer my question Truth.

Linky: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg112620#msg112620 (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg112620#msg112620)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 23, 2009, 06:14:05 PM
Actually, the ones I see seeking attention are God's self-appointed spokespersons - not God.

Wrong! “Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to everyone." Mark 16:16.  D direct instruction from Jesus.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on March 23, 2009, 06:15:44 PM
Actually, the ones I see seeking attention are God's self-appointed spokespersons - not God.

Wrong! “Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to everyone." Mark 16:16.  D direct instruction from Jesus.

Sadly not likely, as Mk 16:9-20 don't appear in the earliest extant copies of the Gospel attributed to Mark. (And, of course, your assertion begs the question anyway; 'Mark' is not established to be other than another self-appointed spokesman.)

P.S. Oh, and incidentally? Mk 16:16 reads "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Perhaps you meant a different verse? Verse Fifteen perhaps?
P.P.S. And if you believe those words are addressed to you, do you also think you can drink deadly poison and not be harmed (Mk 16:18)? I've a bottle of bleach with which to test that hypothesis, if you're up for it.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 23, 2009, 08:21:11 PM
Oh right correction Mark 16:15

I know it's hard for you to understand.  I will pray and ask God to reveal his knowledge and wisdom to you in the name of Jesus. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 23, 2009, 08:24:43 PM
Oh right correction Mark 16:15

I know it's hard for you to understand.  I will pray and ask God to reveal his knowledge and wisdom to you in the name of Jesus.

Why bother?   Prayer is ineffective;

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/superstition.htm (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/superstition.htm)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on March 23, 2009, 08:30:01 PM
Oh right correction Mark 16:15

I know it's hard for you to understand.  I will pray and ask God to reveal his knowledge and wisdom to you in the name of Jesus. 

You know, you're not the first to try that particular magic incantation. It has never worked on me. Spare yourself the trouble. It won't work. Plenty before you have tried and failed.

You see, I know something you don't: prayer is all in your head. It only works for people who believe in it. And, since I don't believe in it, I'm also immune to it. Sorry. :)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 23, 2009, 08:36:34 PM

Your argument should be with God and not me.  I do not send anyone to hell.  I, like God, do not wish anyone perish.  I wish that all will be saved.  But God did give us free will and we have to make that choice.  No matter how you feel God loves you and it's not too late to turn to him. 

I'm tired of "free will" coming from so many posts of Christians. Please show me "free will" in the bible. If you can't, stop using the phrase.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 23, 2009, 08:51:09 PM

Joshua 24:15   
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The use of the word choose here shows us that God gives us free will.  He will not choose for us.  We have to choose for ourselves.

Good question. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 23, 2009, 09:09:12 PM
Oh right correction Mark 16:15

I know it's hard for you to understand.  I will pray and ask God to reveal his knowledge and wisdom to you in the name of Jesus. 

I take this dodge to mean that Truth doesn't trust God to save him if he drinks a deadly poison.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on March 23, 2009, 09:11:25 PM
Oh right correction Mark 16:15

I know it's hard for you to understand.  I will pray and ask God to reveal his knowledge and wisdom to you in the name of Jesus. 

I take this dodge to mean that Truth doesn't trust God to save him if he drinks a deadly poison.

Yeah, no-one's taken my Cillit Bang Pound-A-Pint Challenge yet.

(Unless all those drive-bys aren't really drive-bys, but did take up the challenge, and haven't been able to report back... ugh, that would be a terrible thing to have on one's conscience.)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 23, 2009, 09:12:15 PM
Oh right correction Mark 16:15

I know it's hard for you to understand.  I will pray and ask God to reveal his knowledge and wisdom to you in the name of Jesus. 

I take this dodge to mean that Truth doesn't trust God to save him if he drinks a deadly poison.

Actually there are people who do this as a worship practice. I don't know their denomination, most of us in the south just call them snake handlers.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: ksm on March 23, 2009, 09:13:15 PM

The reason you should not serve those other gods is because they do not offer the gift of eternal life.  The have never raised a dead man from the grave and ascended him to heaven. 

Your telling me that Egyptian gods (Ra and Horus) don't offer the gift of eternal life?

Seriously? Ever noticed those things called the Pyramids? The entire ancient Egyptian culture seemed to be based on preparing for the afterlife.

Osiris, the father of Horus was resurrected from the dead.

So clearly, you don't know what you are talking about. I suggest you educate yourself, or you will run the risk of appearing to be stupid.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 23, 2009, 09:17:13 PM

The reason you should not serve those other gods is because they do not offer the gift of eternal life.  The have never raised a dead man from the grave and ascended him to heaven. 

Your telling me that Egyptian gods (Ra and Horus) don't offer the gift of eternal life?

Seriously? Ever noticed those things called the Pyramids? The entire ancient Egyptian culture seemed to be based on preparing for the afterlife.

Osiris, the father of Horus was resurrected from the dead.

So clearly, you don't know what you are talking about. I suggest you educate yourself, or you will run the risk of appearing to be stupid.

Anyone that believes appears to be stupid to you. What's your point?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 23, 2009, 09:25:18 PM
Oh right correction Mark 16:15

I know it's hard for you to understand.  I will pray and ask God to reveal his knowledge and wisdom to you in the name of Jesus. 

I take this dodge to mean that Truth doesn't trust God to save him if he drinks a deadly poison.

Actually there are people who do this as a worship practice. I don't know their denomination, most of us in the south just call them snake handlers.

Yeah, I'm aware of them.  They are Pentacostles in Tennessee and Kentucky, mostly.  They may be crazy, but you have to admire them.  They've got the guts to put their faith to the test.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: ksm on March 23, 2009, 09:28:02 PM
Anyone that believes appears to be stupid to you. What's your point?

Where did I say that?

(Seriously, I would like to know).
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 23, 2009, 09:33:18 PM
Anyone that believes appears to be stupid to you. What's your point?

Where did I say that?

(Seriously, I would like to know).

I based it on what you just said. In my opinion anyone that tells another to "educate themselves... or they'll appear to be stupid" in the context of talking about pagan religions would think that.

That was probably out of frustration, I'm sorry.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 23, 2009, 09:52:23 PM

Joshua 24:15   
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The use of the word choose here shows us that God gives us free will.  He will not choose for us.  We have to choose for ourselves.

Good question. 

Continued here (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5233.msg113047#msg113047).
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: ksm on March 23, 2009, 09:56:42 PM
Anyone that believes appears to be stupid to you. What's your point?

Where did I say that?

(Seriously, I would like to know).

I based it on what you just said. In my opinion anyone that tells another to "educate themselves... or they'll appear to be stupid" in the context of talking about pagan religions would think that.

That was probably out of frustration, I'm sorry.

That's ok. I was trying to give advice, and it may appear to be roughly given.

No one wants to appear to be stupid, I assume. Truth was making a statement that was False. A tiny bit of research would have shown that the statement was not True.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 23, 2009, 10:41:00 PM
Oh right correction Mark 16:15

I know it's hard for you to understand.  I will pray and ask God to reveal his knowledge and wisdom to you in the name of Jesus. 

I take this dodge to mean that Truth doesn't trust God to save him if he drinks a deadly poison.

Yeah, no-one's taken my Cillit Bang Pound-A-Pint Challenge yet.


(Unless all those drive-bys aren't really drive-bys, but did take up the challenge, and haven't been able to report back... ugh, that would be a terrible thing to have on one's conscience.)

Your challenge is similar to the situation Jesus was in when he had been in the desert for 40 days.  The devil came and tried to tempt him saying if he was God then he should be able to do thus and so.  He tried this three times.  In each case, Jesus resisted and told the testament that they should not tempt the Lord God.  So I say to you thou shall not tempt the Lord God.  Every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 23, 2009, 10:44:58 PM
Dodgeball is the offical sport of Christianity!
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Astreja on March 23, 2009, 10:57:34 PM
So I say to you thou shall not tempt the Lord God.

Now why would *we* want to tempt someone/something in which we don't believe?

But it raises an interesting question about prayer.  What, indeed is its purpose if not to attempt to influence your god in some way?

And why was it okay to test your god in the Old Testament?  What changed, and how do you reconcile this with the concept of an unchanging god?

Quote
Every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus.

Quite frankly, I doubt that very, very much.  Just because it says so in your storybook doesn't make it true.  (That'll be one talking snake, please, delivered prepaid to my place. ;D)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 23, 2009, 11:09:52 PM
It's not what I said, it's what God said.  And you will see one day. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 23, 2009, 11:26:42 PM
It's not what I said, it's what God said.  And you will see one day. 

Truth is down to making vague threats...  &)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 23, 2009, 11:53:22 PM
When God says something, it is not a threat, its a promise.  And what I saying that God said was that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus.  I just mean that that will happen.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 24, 2009, 12:03:45 AM
When God says something, it is not a threat, its a promise.  And what I saying that God said was that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus.  I just mean that that will happen.

I don't expect it will.  You've not given me any reason to believe your claims, so I guess I won't worry about it.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 24, 2009, 12:30:37 AM
When God says something, it is not a threat, its a promise.  And what I saying that God said was that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus.  I just mean that that will happen.

I don't expect it will.  You've not given me any reason to believe your claims, so I guess I won't worry about it.

What reason would you like?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on March 24, 2009, 03:23:28 AM
Your challenge is similar to the situation Jesus was in when he had been in the desert for 40 days.  The devil came and tried to tempt him saying if he was God then he should be able to do thus and so.  He tried this three times.  In each case, Jesus resisted and told the testament that they should not tempt the Lord God.  So I say to you thou shall not tempt the Lord God.  Every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus. 

This is handwaving. You claim that Mk 16:15 applies to you. If so, then Mk 16:18 also applies to you. Your mealy-mouthed mantras are a thought-terminator. When pressed on a claim, you simply declare the notion out of the scope of testability. In short, you've got nothing - no grounds by which anyone should take any claims you make remotely seriously. Your statements are no better than those of a loony conspiracy-theorist.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Ambassador Pony on March 24, 2009, 05:40:53 AM
He's demonstrated he's too ignorant to understand the statement you made.

Is this the best god could send?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 24, 2009, 07:10:12 AM
Is this the best god could send?

I think Jehovah has given up on us. He simply does not care enough to send us his heaviest hitters.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 24, 2009, 09:57:05 AM
When God says something, it is not a threat, its a promise.  And what I saying that God said was that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus.  I just mean that that will happen.

I don't expect it will.  You've not given me any reason to believe your claims, so I guess I won't worry about it.

What reason would you like?

Something believable would be a good start.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 24, 2009, 11:47:24 PM
You can believe every word that is in the Bible.  Does that mean you have to do every word that is in the bible?  No. not at all.  God wants us to love him with all our hearts and with all our souls. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: ksm on March 24, 2009, 11:51:07 PM
You can believe every word that is in the Bible.  Does that mean you have to do every word that is in the bible?  No. not at all.  God wants us to love him with all our hearts and with all our souls. 

I imagine the bits where gods says "do this" you are supposed to do?

Or are you just making it up as you go?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 25, 2009, 12:16:16 AM
You can believe every word that is in the Bible.  Does that mean you have to do every word that is in the bible?  No. not at all.  God wants us to love him with all our hearts and with all our souls. 

Ha!  Maybe you can believe every word in it, but I don't know how you could.  Unless you have some ulterior motive for suspending disbelief long enough to choke that load of codswallop down.  Aside from a few references to a few real people, I have yet to have found anything about the bible that bears any resemblance to credible.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on March 25, 2009, 05:02:37 AM
You can believe every word that is in the Bible.

Alas, my brain does not appear to be wired in such a way that I can believe things that are manifestly absurd.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 25, 2009, 09:01:17 AM
You can believe every word that is in the Bible.  Does that mean you have to do every word that is in the bible?  No. not at all.  God wants us to love him with all our hearts and with all our souls.

So, beyond a bare assertion that you are right, you've got nothing?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 10:11:22 AM
I am not a spokesperson from God.  This is a forum, I can voice my thoughts.  I am glad you want to hear from God.  Call upon him and he will answer.  He can answer all your questions. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 10:19:11 AM
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14 (NIV)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 25, 2009, 10:27:33 AM
Truth, what would you have told this person;

Quote
Lord, my God, who am I that You should forsake me? The Child of your Love — and now become as the most hated one — the one — You have thrown away as unwanted — unloved. I call, I cling, I want — and there is no One to answer — no One on Whom I can cling — no, No One. — Alone ... Where is my Faith — even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness & darkness — My God — how painful is this unknown pain — I have no Faith — I dare not utter the words & thoughts that crowd in my heart — & make me suffer untold agony.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 10:35:43 AM
I would tell this person that God never leaves you or for sake you.  He loves you.  I would pray that he increase his faith.  Because without faith it is impossible to please God.   I would also say that in his weakness God is made strong. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 25, 2009, 10:43:17 AM
What would you say to this person;

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEsPimB5Jq8[/youtube]
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 10:58:59 AM
I would say to this person that God is real.  He obviously has been wounded and is angry with God.  God wants to heal that wounded.  On he statements about disbelief I say The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. I will pray for him.  He obviously didn't read my post as to the question of this website.  It is shown that God does heal.  Does he grow limbs back? No and I explained why and what that meant as it relates to the spiritual world.  Read it at the top. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 11:00:17 AM
See my response above. May God bless and keep you.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: dmnemaine on March 25, 2009, 11:11:41 AM
I would say to this person that God is real.  He obviously has been wounded and is angry with God.  God wants to heal that wounded.  On he statements about disbelief I say The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. I will pray for him.  He obviously didn't read my post as to the question of this website.  It is shown that God does heal.  Does he grow limbs back? No and I explained why and what that meant as it relates to the spiritual world.  Read it at the top. 

That man was very calm and reasonable.  There was no anger or woundedness suggested at all.   And if you had listened, he was a christian for 40 years.  40 years!  I would say that understanding is hardly the problem.  The problem is your unwillingness to see anything without your "God" glasses on.  You are blinded to reality, and you don't even care.  Like the video says, there's no point in arguing with you.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 11:20:43 AM
All right then, let's not argue.  I will always proclaim that Jesus, God is real.  The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 25, 2009, 11:24:37 AM
All right then, let's not argue.  I will always proclaim that Jesus, God is real.  The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So you are just here to proselytize?  If so, I see no point in your continuing to post in this forum.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 25, 2009, 11:26:23 AM
I am not a spokesperson from God.  This is a forum, I can voice my thoughts.  I am glad you want to hear from God.  Call upon him and he will answer.  He can answer all your questions. 

Really?  What's his number?  Does it start with 1-800?

More to the point; if he'll answers all of my questions, will he tell me the cure to cancer?

Unless he tells me something testable like the cure for cancer, there is no way for me to know whenever it's god, or just a voice in my head.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 11:40:51 AM
A good first step in hearing from God is to read the Bible.  It is the word of God and tells you what God wants you to know.  Yes it was written by men, but it was inspired by the Holy Spirit.  In other words God told them what to say.  He will give you the cure for cancer if that's what you want.  So get busy and start reading so you can hear from God.  I challenge you. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 25, 2009, 11:47:37 AM
I would say to this person that God is real.  He obviously has been wounded and is angry with God.  God wants to heal that wounded.  On he statements about disbelief I say The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. I will pray for him.  He obviously didn't read my post as to the question of this website.  It is shown that God does heal.  Does he grow limbs back? No and I explained why and what that meant as it relates to the spiritual world.  Read it at the top.

Yet, in both cases, the two people put themselves at the top of the Christian believing food chain ... and ended up with no faith -- while you are staggeringly confident.  Why you and not them?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 11:53:14 AM
I can't speak to what may have happened in their lives.  But just because they say God is not real to them anymore does not mean that it is so.  God does not change, he is the same yesterday, today, and forever.  I have decided that I will always follow Jesus, I know there is no other way.  Prayerfully those people will come back to God.  He loves them no matter what and he loves you to.  All you have to do is accept him into your heart and your life will never be the same.  Does that mean you won't have problems?  No, it means that God will be there with and he will deliver you. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 25, 2009, 11:55:48 AM
A good first step in hearing from God is to read the Bible.  It is the word of God and tells you what God wants you to know.  Yes it was written by men, but it was inspired by the Holy Spirit.  In other words God told them what to say.  He will give you the cure for cancer if that's what you want.  So get busy and start reading so you can hear from God.  I challenge you. 

First of all, you said "call to god", not "read a book".  "Call to god" makes it sounds like I'd hear his voice and have a talk with him.

Second, I already am reading the bible.  I've finished the first 13 books, and I see nothing that indicate that this is a "divinley inspired" book.  The bible showcase a very enthnocentric and bloodthirsty god that demands animal sacrifices, and gets upset if his "chosen people" do not completely massacre a town.  This god is even a baby killer.  The only way the bible makes sense is if you look at it as a book written by semi-literate goat hearders living 2,000+ years ago in the middle east.

Third, I find it amusing that, apparently, you're saying that god transcribed the cure for cancer in the bible, and I have yet to read that passage.  If this is true:

1) Why didn't you point out the passage to me?  You would've had have an easy chance to put me in my place.

2) Why didn't anyone, in 2,000 years, notice this and cured cancer ages ago?

3) Have you submitted this information to the scientific community?

4)  Why aren't chirstians using this information to prove that the bible is god's word?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 25, 2009, 12:31:51 PM
I can't speak to what may have happened in their lives.  But just because they say God is not real to them anymore does not mean that it is so.  God does not change, he is the same yesterday, today, and forever.  I have decided that I will always follow Jesus, I know there is no other way.  Prayerfully those people will come back to God.  He loves them no matter what and he loves you to.  All you have to do is accept him into your heart and your life will never be the same.  Does that mean you won't have problems?  No, it means that God will be there with and he will deliver you.

Well, now that you are talking with me ... how about a reply?

Leviticus 15: 19-33 Those were customs and ceremonies in Old Testament times before the coming of Jesus. Separating the woman was symbolic of how God is separated from us when we sin.  But today we do not follow those customs because Jesus came and we were atoned for our sins, however we are still separated from God when we sin.  All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  All we have to do is repent (turn away) from our sin and ask God’s forgiveness and because of the blood of Jesus he will forgive us.

Three questions (with the above in mind as well as your other comments);

1. Why did God change?

2. Why were those previous practices valid?

3. Why not just discard the OT as an irrelevant curiosity?

Someone  asked the question why my God and not some other God like allah or  whatever?  I can't find the post, but the answer is that there has never been another God that can raise the dead, perform the miracles that Jesus performed and is still performing, creates life.  There is only one all knowing, all powerful, ever present God and he heals amputees.  Read the first post if you need to.  Don't argue with me, the battle is not mine, but it's the Lord.  He is the one that can make blind eyes see.

Yet, you are here.  Not your deity.  You are making those claims to us.  So, the argument -- if any -- does indeed fall to you.

As for the specific claims;

"there has never been another God that;

1. "can raise the dead"

2. "perform the miracles that Jesus performed"

3. "and is still performing"

4. "creates life".

Do you want to actually stand by those claims, or do you want to reconsider?

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 01:08:35 PM
A good first step in hearing from God is to read the Bible.  It is the word of God and tells you what God wants you to know.  Yes it was written by men, but it was inspired by the Holy Spirit.  In other words God told them what to say.  He will give you the cure for cancer if that's what you want.  So get busy and start reading so you can hear from God.  I challenge you. 

First of all, you said "call to god", not "read a book".  "Call to god" makes it sounds like I'd hear his voice and have a talk with him.

Second, I already am reading the bible.  I've finished the first 13 books, and I see nothing that indicate that this is a "divinley inspired" book.  The bible showcase a very enthnocentric and bloodthirsty god that demands animal sacrifices, and gets upset if his "chosen people" do not completely massacre a town.  This god is even a baby killer.  The only way the bible makes sense is if you look at it as a book written by semi-literate goat hearders living 2,000+ years ago in the middle east.

Third, I find it amusing that, apparently, you're saying that god transcribed the cure for cancer in the bible, and I have yet to read that passage.  If this is true:

1) Why didn't you point out the passage to me?  You would've had have an easy chance to put me in my place.

2) Why didn't anyone, in 2,000 years, notice this and cured cancer ages ago?

3) Have you submitted this information to the scientific community?

4)  Why aren't chirstians using this information to prove that the bible is god's word?



I did not say the cure for cancer was in the Bible.  I said read the Bible to hear from God and then if you pray to him earnestly, he will give you an answer to cure cancer.  In fact, God heals from cancer every day.  I recognize that some people die with cancer daily as well. God never promised that we all will live forever in this world.  He tells us how to get eternal life.  That is the most important thing whether or not the people who died had received the gift of eternal life.  God heals. Doctors treat.  Keep reading the bible, God will reveal himself to you. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 25, 2009, 01:13:40 PM
Quote
In fact, God heals from cancer every day.  I recognize that some people die with cancer daily as well.

I've always been under the assumption that those who are healed from cancer have a form of cancer that hasn't progressed very far. If you read the bible and pray to be healed from cancer that has taken over your body, there is a slim to nil chance you are going to get healed. The thing is christians say god is going to heal them, but they refuse to just find it a coincidence that they have been healed.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 01:23:39 PM
You assumption is incorrect.  God has healed people where the doctors said the situation is impossible because what is impossible with man is possible with God.  Personally I have been healed from a stroke that was about to happen, from TB that was trying to attack my body as well.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 25, 2009, 01:30:06 PM
Quote
In fact, God heals from cancer every day.  I recognize that some people die with cancer daily as well.

I've always been under the assumption that those who are healed from cancer have a form of cancer that hasn't progressed very far. If you read the bible and pray to be healed from cancer that has taken over your body, there is a slim to nil chance you are going to get healed. The thing is christians say god is going to heal them, but they refuse to just find it a coincidence that they have been healed.

I thought that people with cancer aren't actually considered "cured" but rather "in remission."  In other words, the doc can't see any evidence of active cancer, but isn't prepared to say that it is totally gone.  I guess that because of metastasis and slow-growing cancers they can never be totally sure it is gone.

You assumption is incorrect.  God has healed people where the doctors said the situation is impossible because what is impossible with man is possible with God.  Personally I have been healed from a stroke that was about to happen, from TB that was trying to attack my body as well.

Doctors are fallable, so just because one doc says it is impossible to heal doesn't mean that it is.  I was told by a doc that I would have to have a plantars wart cut out of my heel, that it wouldn't heal on its own.  It eventually went away.  This is not evidence of a miracle or supernatural intervention, it is evidence of misinformation.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 01:53:31 PM
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Dkit on March 25, 2009, 02:04:29 PM
So, in absence of a reasonable response, you choose to regurgitate the same verse from an earlier post?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 25, 2009, 02:05:54 PM
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Do you have any plans to actually contribute anything worth serious discussion or are you just going to post more preachy nonsense?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 02:08:55 PM
I intend to post, but the scripture was appropriate in that instance.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aaron123 on March 25, 2009, 02:13:35 PM
Quote
I said read the Bible to hear from God and then if you pray to him earnestly, he will give you an answer to cure cancer.  In fact, God heals from cancer every day.  I recognize that some people die with cancer daily as well.

I'm not asking for a handful of people to be cured from cancer, I'm asking for every case of cancer to be cured.  

Also, if god will give an answer to one that ask, why don't you ask for the cure to cancer?  After all, you'll be able to pray sincerely and faithfully, and the prayer will be unselfish and unmaterialistic.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 25, 2009, 02:22:21 PM
I intend to post, but the scripture was appropriate in that instance.

I disagree.  If you are just going to post scripture then don't bother posting.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on March 25, 2009, 02:23:41 PM
A good first step in hearing from God is to read the Bible.  It is the word of God and tells you what God wants you to know.  Yes it was written by men, but it was inspired by the Holy Spirit.  In other words God told them what to say.  He will give you the cure for cancer if that's what you want.  So get busy and start reading so you can hear from God.  I challenge you. 

Already read it. From cover to cover, twice, and individual books in no particular order. Still not convinced that it has any divine authority, or is in fact any more than a collection of works of legends and folklore, priestly history, wisdom tales, poetry, allegory and metaphor - which, if taken with anything less than a considerable degree of literary latitude (or a truckload of salt), would amount to a mountain of claims about reality that are in part wholly unsubstantiated, and in part manifestly absurd, and bear all the hallmarks of a culture and tradition that was grasping at straws in its attempts to explain what little it understood about reality when in fact it was adrift in the proverbial fecal stream without adequate means of propulsion.

So what's plan B?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 02:34:28 PM
I believe that you will one day believe if you have read the bible as you say.  The bible says that the word of God is alive and powerful, which means it can transform and convert.  It also says that it is sharper that the sharpest two edged sword cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow, which means it will pierce your heart at some point.  God's word does not return to him void, which means that there will be good fruit from your reading of the word. We know that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus, so I look forward to the day of your salvation. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 25, 2009, 02:38:46 PM
So what's plan B?

Apparently, plan B is to just sit around and wait for some kind of divine intervention.  I guess if it doesn't happen before you die, you are just screwed.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 02:51:58 PM
God wants us to be patient.  If you have a special condition, you can pray for it and God will heal you.  But you do have to wait on the Lord.  God's timing is perfect. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Boots on March 25, 2009, 02:55:19 PM
I believe that you will one day believe if you have read the bible as you say.  The bible says that the word of God is alive and powerful, which means it can transform and convert.  It also says that it is sharper that the sharpest two edged sword cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow, which means it will pierce your heart at some point.  God's word does not return to him void, which means that there will be good fruit from your reading of the word. We know that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus, so I look forward to the day of your salvation. 

So we should believe the bible because the bible says so?

are you even listening to yourself?!?!
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Cycle4Fun on March 25, 2009, 02:57:26 PM
I believe that you will one day believe if you have read the bible as you say.  The bible says that the word of God is alive and powerful, which means it can transform and convert.  It also says that it is sharper that the sharpest two edged sword cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow, which means it will pierce your heart at some point.  God's word does not return to him void, which means that there will be good fruit from your reading of the word. We know that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus, so I look forward to the day of your salvation. 

Oddly enough, the bible was powerful in my life.  It did have the power to transform and convert.  The bible was sharper than the sharpest two edge sword.  The bible did pierce my heart.

Reading the bible was a main factor in my deconversion.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 25, 2009, 02:59:57 PM
I believe that you will one day believe if you have read the bible as you say.  The bible says that the word of God is alive and powerful, which means it can transform and convert.  It also says that it is sharper that the sharpest two edged sword cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow, which means it will pierce your heart at some point.  God's word does not return to him void, which means that there will be good fruit from your reading of the word. We know that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus, so I look forward to the day of your salvation. 

Quote
Oddly enough, the bible was powerful in my life.  It did have the power to transform and convert.  The bible was sharper than the sharpest two edge sword.  The bible did pierce my heart.

Reading the bible was a main factor in my deconversion.

Truth, I think you are underestimating how many people on this board have actually read the bible, with the clear, pure and sincere heart.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on March 25, 2009, 03:06:43 PM
I believe that you will one day believe if you have read the bible as you say.  The bible says that the word of God is alive and powerful, which means it can transform and convert.  It also says that it is sharper that the sharpest two edged sword cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow, which means it will pierce your heart at some point.  God's word does not return to him void, which means that there will be good fruit from your reading of the word. We know that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus, so I look forward to the day of your salvation. 

Do you see how, given my statement above, this comment seems pretty empty, and smacks of circular reasoning?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 25, 2009, 03:11:39 PM
I believe that you will one day believe if you have read the bible as you say.  The bible says that the word of God is alive and powerful, which means it can transform and convert.  It also says that it is sharper that the sharpest two edged sword cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow, which means it will pierce your heart at some point.  God's word does not return to him void, which means that there will be good fruit from your reading of the word. We know that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus, so I look forward to the day of your salvation. 

Do you see how, given my statement above, this comment seems pretty empty, and smacks of circular reasoning?

I don't think Truth cares if his comments make no sense.  He'll just keep repeating them.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 03:24:52 PM


Oddly enough, the bible was powerful in my life.  It did have the power to transform and convert.  The bible was sharper than the sharpest two edge sword.  The bible did pierce my heart.

Reading the bible was a main factor in my deconversion.


I bet you did not read the whole thing.  Tell the truth.  Did you not see God's goodness?  Did you not see God's love for you when reading the bible?  Did you not see that Jesus is the only way, truth, and light?
You know Satan read the bible too.  You will change.  We'll just have to wait and see.  I understand where you say you are now, but what I do know is that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus and you one day will bow.  This is not a threat but a promise of God.  God is good. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 03:35:38 PM
I don't see a post here.  What's the message?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on March 25, 2009, 03:36:28 PM
I was wondering that. Did Mutha delete his/her post?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 03:36:57 PM
I respect the fact that many people on the post have read the bible.  I just know that this for sure that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus.  I know that maybe it doesn't look like they will turn to God now, the day will come when they do.  It's a process.  
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Operator_017 on March 25, 2009, 03:38:02 PM
Oh, that message was edited by me, at the request of the user.



Do you intend to have a discussion, Truth? Because asking members to read the bible and call upon god for answers to their questions (that were asked to you) is not how to have a discussion.

You began posting on the forum, was it to preach or was it in order to discuss why god won't heal amputees?   
It appears that you are proselytizing rather than answering the specific questions that have been asked of you.

If you intend to discuss, then do so.  That means answering questions that are asked of you with a reply of substance, not with a reply of "you will see one day", or "call upon god".    That's a warning, discuss or go elsewhere to preach.

-Seventeen
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: dmnemaine on March 25, 2009, 03:43:03 PM
I respect the fact that many people on the post have read the bible.  I just know that this for sure that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus.  I know that maybe it doesn't look like they will turn to God now, the day will come when they do.  It's a process.  

This is what you're not getting, Truth.  It was reading and truly understanding the bible that turned many of us away from your god.  So no amount of reading it is going to turn us back.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 03:43:30 PM
I think I have been answering questions.  Often the posters ask me to view a video or go to a site.  What's the difference.  Is it because you do not believe that you feel I am not answering the question when I direct them to the bible.  When I say one day you will see, I am saying that God has said in his word that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus.  I am just confirming that that will happen.  It is not a threat or anything.  I hope this clears up the matter.  I do enjoy communicating with the posters.  
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Emily on March 25, 2009, 03:52:34 PM
Quote
Is it because you do not believe that you feel I am not answering the question when I direct them to the bible.

Its just the bible isn't an answer, at least not to atheists. It never will be. You're quoting scripture and it sounds like you are "witnessing" to us, and that's a lot like preaching.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on March 25, 2009, 03:56:03 PM
I think the difficulty in communication here stems from the fact that while you may believe that "God has said in his word that every knee shall bow", your mere assertion of the fact does not amount to confirmation that it will happen. The assertion rests purely upon your preconceptions - and your preconceptions are not granted the status of reality merely because you say so, or because you believe that a particular collection of works (of doubtful provenance as far as your interlocutors are concerned) says so. I could quote Babylon 5 back at you with as much efficacy. Merely repeating the assertion repeats this misunderstanding, so no useful communication is going on. Perhaps you'd like to try another tack?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Operator_017 on March 25, 2009, 04:01:43 PM
I cannot seem to find a reply from Truth that was requested by Hermes a page back.
Here is the post, so you may read and reply, Truth. (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg114617#msg114617)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 04:33:45 PM
Perhaps you'd like to try another tack?

Ok I will
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 04:35:26 PM
If there is a question I have not answered from a poster, please let me know. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Blindednomore on March 25, 2009, 04:50:01 PM
I just know that this for sure that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus.
Other than the bible, how do you know this?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Blindednomore on March 25, 2009, 04:51:01 PM
And you will see one day. 
haha, they have been saying this one for 2000 years now.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 25, 2009, 05:10:25 PM
If there is a question I have not answered from a poster, please let me know. 

3rd time is a charm.  (Or is that 3 strikes you're out in this case?)

I can't speak to what may have happened in their lives.  But just because they say God is not real to them anymore does not mean that it is so.  God does not change, he is the same yesterday, today, and forever.  I have decided that I will always follow Jesus, I know there is no other way.  Prayerfully those people will come back to God.  He loves them no matter what and he loves you to.  All you have to do is accept him into your heart and your life will never be the same.  Does that mean you won't have problems?  No, it means that God will be there with and he will deliver you.

Well, now that you are talking with me ... how about a reply?

Leviticus 15: 19-33 Those were customs and ceremonies in Old Testament times before the coming of Jesus. Separating the woman was symbolic of how God is separated from us when we sin.  But today we do not follow those customs because Jesus came and we were atoned for our sins, however we are still separated from God when we sin.  All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  All we have to do is repent (turn away) from our sin and ask God’s forgiveness and because of the blood of Jesus he will forgive us.

Three questions (with the above in mind as well as your other comments);

1. Why did God change?

2. Why were those previous practices valid?

3. Why not just discard the OT as an irrelevant curiosity?

Someone  asked the question why my God and not some other God like allah or  whatever?  I can't find the post, but the answer is that there has never been another God that can raise the dead, perform the miracles that Jesus performed and is still performing, creates life.  There is only one all knowing, all powerful, ever present God and he heals amputees.  Read the first post if you need to.  Don't argue with me, the battle is not mine, but it's the Lord.  He is the one that can make blind eyes see.

Yet, you are here.  Not your deity.  You are making those claims to us.  So, the argument -- if any -- does indeed fall to you.

As for the specific claims;

"there has never been another God that;

1. "can raise the dead"

2. "perform the miracles that Jesus performed"

3. "and is still performing"

4. "creates life".

Do you want to actually stand by those claims, or do you want to reconsider?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 08:12:38 PM
If there is a question I have not answered from a poster, please let me know. 

3rd time is a charm.  (Or is that 3 strikes you're out in this case?)

I can't speak to what may have happened in their lives.  But just because they say God is not real to them anymore does not mean that it is so.  God does not change, he is the same yesterday, today, and forever.  I have decided that I will always follow Jesus, I know there is no other way.  Prayerfully those people will come back to God.  He loves them no matter what and he loves you to.  All you have to do is accept him into your heart and your life will never be the same.  Does that mean you won't have problems?  No, it means that God will be there with and he will deliver you.

Well, now that you are talking with me ... how about a reply?

Leviticus 15: 19-33 Those were customs and ceremonies in Old Testament times before the coming of Jesus. Separating the woman was symbolic of how God is separated from us when we sin.  But today we do not follow those customs because Jesus came and we were atoned for our sins, however we are still separated from God when we sin.  All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  All we have to do is repent (turn away) from our sin and ask God’s forgiveness and because of the blood of Jesus he will forgive us.

Three questions (with the above in mind as well as your other comments);

1. Why did God change?

2. Why were those previous practices valid?

3. Why not just discard the OT as an irrelevant curiosity?

Someone  asked the question why my God and not some other God like allah or  whatever?  I can't find the post, but the answer is that there has never been another God that can raise the dead, perform the miracles that Jesus performed and is still performing, creates life.  There is only one all knowing, all powerful, ever present God and he heals amputees.  Read the first post if you need to.  Don't argue with me, the battle is not mine, but it's the Lord.  He is the one that can make blind eyes see.

Yet, you are here.  Not your deity.  You are making those claims to us.  So, the argument -- if any -- does indeed fall to you.

As for the specific claims;

"there has never been another God that;

1. "can raise the dead"

2. "perform the miracles that Jesus performed"

3. "and is still performing"

4. "creates life".

Do you want to actually stand by those claims, or do you want to reconsider?
Answers to your questions

1. God has not changed.  The practices have changed.  God basically used some of these practices to show the main theme of his.  That theme is to recognize that he is God and that we should praise him.

2.  I am not sure what practice specifically you are talking about.  But one that comes to mind is slavery.  God did not create slavery.  Man did..  Times have changed. God has not.

3.  We do need to discard the OT, but what we do is not follow the practices they did, but we look at the bigger picture.  One is it shows how God will trample our enemies on our behalf.  I do not mean people enemies.  I mean enemies, like doubt, pride, unbelief.Then God sent Jesus into the world to atone for our sins.  We are not under the law. Jesus freed us from the law.  He came so we can have eternal life,  That is a much bigger picture that just looking at what happens in this world.  It's just so much bigger. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 25, 2009, 08:44:28 PM
[quote author=Truth link=topic=5147.msg115070#msg115070 date=1238029958


3.  We do need to discard the OT, but what we do is not follow the practices they did, but we look at the bigger picture.  One is it shows how God will trample our enemies on our behalf.  I do not mean people enemies.  I mean enemies, like doubt, pride, unbelief.Then God sent Jesus into the world to atone for our sins.  We are not under the law. Jesus freed us from the law.  He came so we can have eternal life,  That is a much bigger picture that just looking at what happens in this world.  It's just so much bigger. 
[/quote]

Yes, the Old testament shows the vengance of God, and his Jealosy. But more important to me, it shows what man is required in the flesh to have a relationship with God, and the signifigance of Jesus death and reasurection. Not meaning to over simplify the signifigance of Jesus, but the new Covenant sure is easier!
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 08:54:22 PM
I made a typo.  I meant to say WE DON"T NEED to discard the Old Testament. 

Thank you Jeeves
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 25, 2009, 09:58:36 PM
Leviticus 15: 19-33 Those were customs and ceremonies in Old Testament times before the coming of Jesus. Separating the woman was symbolic of how God is separated from us when we sin.  But today we do not follow those customs because Jesus came and we were atoned for our sins, however we are still separated from God when we sin.  All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  All we have to do is repent (turn away) from our sin and ask God’s forgiveness and because of the blood of Jesus he will forgive us.

Three questions (with the above in mind as well as your other comments);

1. Why did God change?

1. God has not changed.  The practices have changed.  God basically used some of these practices to show the main theme of his.  That theme is to recognize that he is God and that we should praise him.

Hold that thought.

2. Why were those previous practices valid?

2.  I am not sure what practice specifically you are talking about.  But one that comes to mind is slavery.  God did not create slavery.  Man did..  Times have changed. God has not.

The practices you referenced;

Leviticus 15: 19-33 Those were customs and ceremonies in Old Testament times before the coming of Jesus. Separating the woman was symbolic of how God is separated from us when we sin.  But today we do not follow those customs because Jesus came and we were atoned for our sins, however we are still separated from God when we sin.  All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  All we have to do is repent (turn away) from our sin and ask God’s forgiveness and because of the blood of Jesus he will forgive us.

3. Why not just discard the OT as an irrelevant curiosity?

3.  We do need to discard the OT, but what we do is not follow the practices they did, but we look at the bigger picture.  One is it shows how God will trample our enemies on our behalf.  I do not mean people enemies.  I mean enemies, like doubt, pride, unbelief.Then God sent Jesus into the world to atone for our sins.  We are not under the law. Jesus freed us from the law.  He came so we can have eternal life,  That is a much bigger picture that just looking at what happens in this world.  It's just so much bigger.

First off, when you say "we" (repeatedly) you really mean "you"(user ID Truth) not "everyone" or even "we people in this conversation".  Please be clear about this and not include non-Christians and Christians that don't share your views in your statements.  I get the impression that you're not paying attention when you do that, or (worse) that you are intentionally being presumptuously rude.  Expect this not to warm the cockles of anyone's heart here.

Secondly, you didn't really answer the question (#1 or #2).  You just preached at me (#3).

Want to give it another go?

Remember: I'm not a Christian.  You are.  I've read your book (2x) as well as many others.  If you wonder why you get a negative response from people, this response is a perfect example.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 25, 2009, 10:00:46 PM
Repost.  This part was not addressed at all;

If there is a question I have not answered from a poster, please let me know. 

3rd time is a charm.  (Or is that 3 strikes you're out in this case?)

[ SNIP! ]

Someone  asked the question why my God and not some other God like allah or  whatever?  I can't find the post, but the answer is that there has never been another God that can raise the dead, perform the miracles that Jesus performed and is still performing, creates life.  There is only one all knowing, all powerful, ever present God and he heals amputees.  Read the first post if you need to.  Don't argue with me, the battle is not mine, but it's the Lord.  He is the one that can make blind eyes see.

Yet, you are here.  Not your deity.  You are making those claims to us.  So, the argument -- if any -- does indeed fall to you.

As for the specific claims;

"there has never been another God that;

1. "can raise the dead"

2. "perform the miracles that Jesus performed"

3. "and is still performing"

4. "creates life".

Do you want to actually stand by those claims, or do you want to reconsider?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 25, 2009, 10:04:43 PM
Leviticus 15: 19-33 Those were customs and ceremonies in Old Testament times before the coming of Jesus. Separating the woman was symbolic of how God is separated from us when we sin.  But today we do not follow those customs because Jesus came and we were atoned for our sins, however we are still separated from God when we sin.  All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  All we have to do is repent (turn away) from our sin and ask God’s forgiveness and because of the blood of Jesus he will forgive us.

Three questions (with the above in mind as well as your other comments);

1. Why did God change?

1. God has not changed.  The practices have changed.  God basically used some of these practices to show the main theme of his.  That theme is to recognize that he is God and that we should praise him.

Hold that thought.

2. Why were those previous practices valid?

2.  I am not sure what practice specifically you are talking about.  But one that comes to mind is slavery.  God did not create slavery.  Man did..  Times have changed. God has not.

The practices you referenced;

Leviticus 15: 19-33 Those were customs and ceremonies in Old Testament times before the coming of Jesus. Separating the woman was symbolic of how God is separated from us when we sin.  But today we do not follow those customs because Jesus came and we were atoned for our sins, however we are still separated from God when we sin.  All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  All we have to do is repent (turn away) from our sin and ask God’s forgiveness and because of the blood of Jesus he will forgive us.

3. Why not just discard the OT as an irrelevant curiosity?

3.  We do need to discard the OT, but what we do is not follow the practices they did, but we look at the bigger picture.  One is it shows how God will trample our enemies on our behalf.  I do not mean people enemies.  I mean enemies, like doubt, pride, unbelief.Then God sent Jesus into the world to atone for our sins.  We are not under the law. Jesus freed us from the law.  He came so we can have eternal life,  That is a much bigger picture that just looking at what happens in this world.  It's just so much bigger.

First off, when you say "we" (repeatedly) you really mean "you"(user ID Truth) not "everyone" or even "we people in this conversation".  Please be clear about this and not include non-Christians and Christians that don't share your views in your statements.  I get the impression that you're not paying attention when you do that, or (worse) that you are intentionally being presumptuously rude.  Expect this not to warm the cockles of anyone's heart here.

Secondly, you didn't really answer the question (#1 or #2).  You just preached at me (#3).

Want to give it another go?

Remember: I'm not a Christian.  You are.  I've read your book (2x) as well as many others.  If you wonder why you get a negative response from people, this response is a perfect example.

Leveticus laws are separeated into catagories. i can't remember exactly, but it's something like, 1 Ceremony/worship 2 atonement/offerings. I shouldn't even answer being my memory is vague, but there's a point to give an idea.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 25, 2009, 10:07:56 PM
Leveticus laws are separeated into catagories. i can't remember exactly, but it's something like, 1 Ceremony/worship 2 atonement/offerings. I shouldn't even answer being my memory is vague, but there's a point to give an idea.

Please, Jeeves.  Trim down the quotes.  Especially if you intend to post something as utterly ineffective and bizarre as this.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 25, 2009, 10:09:49 PM
oopS! I'm way to tired to be online, sorry for the exteded quotes.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 10:30:08 PM
Hermes I answered your questions.  Maybe you don't like the answers.  I am not preaching.  Why is it preaching when I use a scripture, but when someone writes a scripture to me that is not preaching.  Am I not allowed to you use whatever quotes I choose.  I noticed all kinds of quotes from various people everywhere.  I just happen to read the bible and use it as my basis for most conversations whether here or elsewhere. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 25, 2009, 11:24:55 PM
Hermes I answered your questions.  Maybe you don't like the answers.  I am not preaching.  Why is it preaching when I use a scripture, but when someone writes a scripture to me that is not preaching.  Am I not allowed to you use whatever quotes I choose.  I noticed all kinds of quotes from various people everywhere.  I just happen to read the bible and use it as my basis for most conversations whether here or elsewhere.

If you weren't preaching, you would not have used "we" so liberally.  I'm not a Christian.  Adapt to that and address me and other non-Christians appropriately.

Additionally, even if the answers can be chalked up to preference, #2 was not answered at all and what other answer you gave is not reflected by your religious texts.  Do you have a different interpretation of your religion from the Bible?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 11:39:33 PM
Excuse Me...when I say we I am speaking of me and the Spirit of God that lives in me because apart from Him I can do nothing.  I do know the difference between believers and non believers.  Even though our views are different.  God loves us all. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Astreja on March 25, 2009, 11:41:58 PM
I believe that you will one day believe if you have read the bible as you say.

Truth, I am a member of a support group for ex-Christians.  Collectively, we've probably read the Bible cover-to-cover at least three hundred times.  The one common theme is this:  The more we read, the less we believed.  Consequently, we regularly recommend that Christians who troll our site take the time to read their Bibles more thoroughly.  ;D

Quote
We know that every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus, so I look forward to the day of your salvation.

It only takes one contrary example, one being who does not bow, to falsify this so-called knowledge.  If you claimed 'We believe that...' then I wouldn't raise an objection.  As it stands, however, it's an unsupported assertion based on a hypothetical mythological event that may or may not happen at some indeterminate time in the future.

Oh, and I absolutely reject 'salvation'.  Not interested, thankyouverymuch.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 25, 2009, 11:55:33 PM
ok
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 26, 2009, 12:09:01 AM
What does a support group for ex-christians do?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 26, 2009, 12:11:50 AM
What does a support group for ex-christians do?

Support ex-Christians.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Jeeves on March 26, 2009, 12:15:24 AM
What does a support group for ex-christians do?

Support ex-Christians.

ROFLOL! Duh!

I mean is it like something like AA?  "Hello, I'm Jim Bob, I'm a recovering christian." Are people seriously distressed about not believing? Certainly  people have problems with family accepting them.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Astreja on March 26, 2009, 12:26:02 AM
What does a support group for ex-christians do?

Support ex-Christians.

One of the major things that we do is help one another work through the powerful emotions that accompany deconversion.  Many of us feel anger after spending years -- Sometimes multiple decades -- as a believer.  Some people are in mourning for the loss of their former beliefs.

And it's always a challenge to deal with friends and family who are still believers... Teenagers get kicked out of their homes and/or lose their college funding after admitting disbelief; marriages fall apart; promotions or entire jobs are lost when the evangelical boss finds out; threats of Hellfire are regularly bandied about; and symptoms of post-traumatic stress syndrome are quite common.

Me, I'm the token ExChristian-in-Name-Only (lifetime non-believer but nominally Christian by infant baptism) who has a rather sharp axe to grind because of various wrongs inflicted upon my family and friends over the years.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 26, 2009, 01:01:03 AM
My heart bleeds for these people. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 26, 2009, 08:22:42 AM
Go bleed somewhere else.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aerial on March 26, 2009, 08:26:57 AM
Thats awful!!! You do not care about people who once believed and have lost that? There would of course be a grieving process. What a great loss!!!
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 26, 2009, 08:53:32 AM
Thats awful!!! You do not care about people who once believed and have lost that? There would of course be a grieving process. What a great loss!!!

What are you talking about?  Truth isn't someone that once believed and now doesn't, nor is Truth in the midst of a grieving process that I am aware of.  Truth is simply preaching.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aerial on March 26, 2009, 08:56:05 AM
Sorry I was under the impression that Truth was basically laughing at de converted christians/atheists...Have i got that totally wrong? I have had a few....
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 26, 2009, 08:59:58 AM
Sorry I was under the impression that Truth was basically laughing at de converted christians/atheists...Have i got that totally wrong? I have had a few....

Oh, I see what you mean.  Sorry, no, I don't know if he's being sarcastic or not.  It's hard to tell.  Not that it matters, anyway.  But I thought you were replying to my post 'cause you didn't quote his.  ;)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aerial on March 26, 2009, 09:07:21 AM
Sorry bout that.....
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 26, 2009, 10:01:33 AM
Sorry bout that.....

lol, s'alright!
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 26, 2009, 10:20:53 AM
Go bleed somewhere else.

Now that's not nice.  Sorry you view my discussions as preaching.  They are not, they are simply discussions.  Is it because it is the word of God that you say it is preaching?  God is also sad that you have not yet turned to me or that you were once were with him and now you have left.  Well Agamemnon, I have no plans to leave this site unless they kick me out.  I will try not to give them a reason to do that.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 26, 2009, 10:23:10 AM
Truth, you stated your emotional state, and Agamemnon did as well.

Seems like an even swap to me.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 26, 2009, 10:23:38 AM
What does a support group for ex-christians do?

Support ex-Christians.

One of the major things that we do is help one another work through the powerful emotions that accompany deconversion.  Many of us feel anger after spending years -- Sometimes multiple decades -- as a believer.  Some people are in mourning for the loss of their former beliefs.

And it's always a challenge to deal with friends and family who are still believers... Teenagers get kicked out of their homes and/or lose their college funding after admitting disbelief; marriages fall apart; promotions or entire jobs are lost when the evangelical boss finds out; threats of Hellfire are regularly bandied about; and symptoms of post-traumatic stress syndrome are quite common.

Me, I'm the token ExChristian-in-Name-Only (lifetime non-believer but nominally Christian by infant baptism) who has a rather sharp axe to grind because of various wrongs inflicted upon my family and friends over the years.

God is the only way to get rid of your hurt.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Cycle4Fun on March 26, 2009, 10:29:25 AM
God is the only way to get rid of your hurt.

Please define God.  Please show that God exists.  Please show that God is the only way to "get rid of your hurt."
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Aerial on March 26, 2009, 10:34:17 AM
And even beside that it is blatantly obvious God is not the only way to get rid of your hurt......People have been dealing with their hurt for centuries using...guess what? Other people!!!!!
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 26, 2009, 10:40:31 AM
God is the only way to get rid of your hurt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet))

Quote
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]

Your posts are not contributing anything of value to the forum and all you seem to be interested in is provoling emotional responses and disrupting discussion.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 26, 2009, 10:51:45 AM
God is the only way to get rid of your hurt.

Please define God.  Please show that God exists.  Please show that God is the only way to "get rid of your hurt."
The definition of God:  God IS
Show that God exist:  Look around you.  God created everything.  Even you.  He created Heaven and earth.  He knew you before you were formed in your mother's womb.  You lie down and sleep and wake again, because the LORD sustains you.
God is the only way to get rid of your hurt:  From the Lord comes deliverance.  Some people try alcohol and drugs to get rid of that hurt and it does not work.  God can give you a peace which passes all understanding. 

These are the answers to your questions.  All you have to do is believe.  No one can make you do that but yourself.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 26, 2009, 10:57:38 AM
God is the only way to get rid of your hurt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet))

Quote
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]

Your posts are not contributing anything of value to the forum and all you seem to be interested in is provoling emotional responses and disrupting discussion.

I think my discussions are of great value.  Someone on here needs to hear this point of view.  You are entitled to your opinion, however.  And so am I.  What do you want a site where every talks about how much they hate God and they hear no differing views?  That would not make for very good discussion forum.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 26, 2009, 11:29:37 AM
You began posting on the forum, was it to preach or was it in order to discuss why god won't heal amputees?   
It appears that you are proselytizing rather than answering the specific questions that have been asked of you.

If you intend to discuss, then do so.  That means answering questions that are asked of you with a reply of substance, not with a reply of "you will see one day", or "call upon god".    That's a warning, discuss or go elsewhere to preach.

-Seventeen


Reminder.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 26, 2009, 11:35:32 AM
I think my discussions are of great value.  Someone on here needs to hear this point of view.  You are entitled to your opinion, however.  And so am I.  What do you want a site where every talks about how much they hate God and they hear no differing views?  That would not make for very good discussion forum.

You are not having a discussion here.  You are just parroting back your pre-fabricated dogma to no effect.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Dkit on March 26, 2009, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: Truth
Show that God exist:  Look around you.  God created everything.  Even you.  He created Heaven and earth.  He knew you before you were formed in your mother's womb.  You lie down and sleep and wake again, because the LORD sustains you.

Nature exists, the universe exists.  I sleep and wake because of the natural body functions that allow me to do so.  Your assertion that God(your specific god) is responsible for it all remains unsubstantiated.  

How do you come to the conclusion that something that we cannot taste, smell, touch, or hear, and something that is invisible and unmeasurable exists?

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Operator_017 on March 26, 2009, 12:30:26 PM
Note about the dynamics of this discussion:
In the OP, Truth began said that his post is "an answer to a question that needs a spiritual answer".  "Spiritual answer".  Perhaps on one side of the discussion we have spirituality and faith, and on the other side of the discussion we have logical analysis.  This won't work and we know it.   Let's remember to understand this when we ask questions and when reply to those questions that are asked of us.  It is a difficult disconnect.

Note about remaining on topic:
I see a few questions and answers on this page.  I also see a lot of comments and off topic discussion.  I had actually forgotten the topic as I was reading the thread.   
The original post (topic) is Truth's answer to "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?". (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg110904#msg110904) 
The last post regarding that was a couple pages back, when discussion occurred related to a video of an amputee.
There are various threads about the nature of god, the will of god, or the proof of god. 

Please remain on topic - which used to be an analysis of Truth's opinion of Why Won't God Heal Amputees.


Edit: typo'd name.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Cycle4Fun on March 26, 2009, 02:21:13 PM
Off shoot of this thread: define God here (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?action=post;topic=5293.msg115866#msg115866 date=1238095152).
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Astreja on March 26, 2009, 10:40:19 PM
God is the only way to get rid of your hurt.

I doubt that with all of my being.  If the Bible is any indication of the character of your imaginary friend, it's much more interested in causing pain.  Your god is completely unworthy of respect.

Personally, I would be quite happy to spend the rest of my life in a total rage, supporting other people in their struggles to disentangle themselves from Christianity.  Inasomuch as I have any extrinsic purpose in my life, I gain immense personal satisfaction from debunking and dismantling your vicious little religion.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 26, 2009, 10:54:10 PM
God is the only way to get rid of your hurt.

I doubt that with all of my being.  If the Bible is any indication of the character of your imaginary friend, it's much more interested in causing pain.  Your god is completely unworthy of respect.

Personally, I would be quite happy to spend the rest of my life in a total rage, supporting other people in their struggles to disentangle themselves from Christianity.  Inasomuch as I have any extrinsic purpose in my life, I gain immense personal satisfaction from debunking and dismantling your vicious little religion.


Why would you say the one who created you in unworthy of respect?

Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

You sound like Paul in the Bible, before he became a great man of God, he went around persecuting and killing Christians.  Then one day he met God and he became one of the best apostles of God.  He has written most of the New Testament.  So there is still hope for you. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Astreja on March 26, 2009, 11:00:03 PM
Why would you say the one who created you in unworthy of respect?

Unsupported assertion.  There is no evidence that your god even exists.  As far as I am concerned, I was created by my parents, whom I hold in the highest regard.

Quote
Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

I do not brawl and I do not slander.  I act out of concern for the future of humanity, not out of malice.  And I find bitterness, rage, and anger to be rather useful tools. 

Quote
You sound like Paul in the Bible, before he became a great man of God, he went around persecuting and killing Christians.  Then one day he met God and he became one of the best apostles of God.  He has written most of the New Testament.  So there is still hope for you.

(sighs, shrugs, shakes her head)  Hope is the denial of reality.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on March 27, 2009, 08:43:10 AM
Scripture quoting ad nauseam.

The bible says that the word of God is alive and powerful, which means it can transform and convert.  It also says that it is sharper that the sharpest two edged sword cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow, which means it will pierce your heart at some point.

Truth believes that posting Bible verses on this forum as responses can convict us evil atheists because he views the words of the Bible as having the power of that "two edged sword". Some of us will have no choice but to heed and either take up or return to Christianity, thus making Truth the hero that he so longs to be in his mind.

Unfortunately, Truth, this will not be the case. The only time the bible can "convict" anyone is when you're dealing with people who have great emotional pain and are desperate searching for anything that can help ease it. It's a seductive drug to those with emotional issues but are far less effective here given that a lot of us have "been there, done that" and that it's far harder to seduce someone with typed words on a forum as opposed to a presentation in person.

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Operator_017 on March 27, 2009, 02:09:56 PM
Off topic posts that I will be deleting have deleted:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg115791#msg115791  http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg115886#msg115886 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg115893#msg115893 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116319#msg116319 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116329#msg116329 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116355#msg116355 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116359#msg116359 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116378#msg116378 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116381#msg116381 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116396#msg116396 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116407#msg116407 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116428#msg116428 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116438#msg116438 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116442#msg116442 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116445#msg116445 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116449#msg116449 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116459#msg116459 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116470#msg116470 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116509#msg116509 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116560#msg116560 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116697#msg116697 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116711#msg116711 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116741#msg116741 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116751#msg116751
leaving this because Truth could benefit from reading it a few times: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116781#msg116781
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116800#msg116800 http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5147.msg116801#msg116801

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 27, 2009, 03:34:50 PM
Do what you need to do.  Why didn't you move them rather than delete them, they were valid discussions.  But as I said do what you have to.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 27, 2009, 03:51:49 PM
I believe that there is not much discussion about my original post is because it answers the question.  In the answer we see that God heals, just not the way we want him to.  He is not Santa Claus.  He is concerned about eternal life as part of the big picture.  He cares for amputees and you as well.  As the said the removed limb has put the person in a position to live and not die, for if the limb had stayed on (whether it was caused by injury of accident) it would have been life threatening. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 27, 2009, 03:53:53 PM
Yes, your original message was answered.  And you ignored the answer.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 27, 2009, 04:03:16 PM
You simply ignored the responses 'truth', you cannot then claim there was not discussion.  That would be a lie.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 27, 2009, 05:42:40 PM
You simply ignored the responses 'truth', you cannot then claim there was not discussion.  That would be a lie.

Reminds me of a thread ...

Is theism inherently dishonest?
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=1080 (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=1080)

I guess, in this case, the answer must be yes.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 27, 2009, 06:02:03 PM
I do not understand a lot about "theism"  I looked it up and I say it's different from Christianity. So I will accept your answer that theism is dishonest.  It is not based upon the word of God. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 27, 2009, 06:14:03 PM
I do not understand a lot about "theism"  I looked it up and I say it's different from Christianity. So I will accept your answer that theism is dishonest.  It is not based upon the word of God. 

LMAO, gotta love how arrogant and stupid this guy is.

---------------

Theism: the doctrine or belief in the existence of a God or gods

Do you truth have a belief in a god or gods? Yep.

Does that make you a theist? Yep.

Are you always a dishonest individual, that has been proven to dodge questions and do nothing more then obfuscate to avoid uncomfortable responses? Most certainly as evidence by the 'christian why not' thread.

Do you use logical fallacies to defend yourself? Yep, your claims are unavoidably circular.

1. I have the truth

How do you know that?

2. Because the bible is truth.

How do you know that?

3. Because its says its true.

How do you know that?

4. Because its true.

On to infinite!

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 27, 2009, 06:42:27 PM
The problem I have with it is that it says belief in God or gods.  I do not believe in gods.  I believe in the one true and living God.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 27, 2009, 06:50:52 PM
If we are going to know God, we must give His Book and His Word the final authority over every issue in our lives. There has to be one way, and one standard for man to follow. Confusion results when one voice is saying, This is the way, and another says, No, this is the way. Each man has a different way -- his own way.

THE FOLLOWING IS EVIDENCE OF WHAT I AM SAYING.  IT IS STRAIGHT FROM BIBLE.COM
http://bibleresources.bible.com/Bathorty.php
 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/Bathorty.php)
The Bible tells us about this in the book of Proverbs. Proverbs 21:2 says, Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the Lord pondereth the hearts. In Proverbs 16:25 we find, There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

What is the right way to find God? What does God look like? Perhaps the most simple answer to this question is, God looks like Jesus. We see God by looking at Jesus. How do we look at Him? We accomplish this by studying the record of His life as recorded in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. John 14:1-9 records this account of Jesus words: " Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also; and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it'sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father....".

The way to see God is by looking at Jesus. This does not mean to look at His physical appearance because God is Spirit, and He says in John 4:24 these words: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Therefore, we must have spiritual eyes to see God since He is Spirit.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Ambassador Pony on March 27, 2009, 08:27:10 PM
Here's the site 'Truth' plagiarized from.

http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=181 (http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=181)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 27, 2009, 08:32:52 PM
ok
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Operator_017 on March 27, 2009, 08:36:13 PM
Truth: Please cite your sources (I have sent you a PM regarding this).

Others: welcome to the pit.

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Ambassador Pony on March 27, 2009, 08:36:23 PM
Boy and girls who steal are usually embarassed by their theft, and ignorance of morally upright behaviour.

Some are too ignorant to comprehend.  
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 27, 2009, 08:42:24 PM
Truth: Please cite your sources (I have sent you a PM regarding this).


will do
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 27, 2009, 08:46:01 PM
The problem I have with it is that it says belief in God or gods.  I do not believe in gods.  I believe in the one true and living God.

Irrelevant.

Special pleading is a fallacy where you make up new unexplained qualifiers for previously unexplained claims.  "true and living" no more offers anymore explanation then simply deeming it to not be so because you can.

A rock is still a rock, regardless if I call it the 'one true' rock or imply other adjectives that have more to do with metaphor then any objective quality.

The same way:

A god is still a god, the definition for 'god' is so ambiguous it can safely be assumed to encompass your god.  If you are going to insist otherwise, then you have to make a case for that claim itself.  You have to present an objective means to differentiate between the two concepts in question.

What is more telling about your response is that you emotionally don't like to allow your god claim to be on the same level as every other god claim, you are specifically trying to obfuscate to avoid having to admit that what you claim is the equivalent to what any religious believer claims about anything.  You're pleading new qualifiers for an authority you cannot justify based on a presupposition you can't justify to anyone else.

The only way to argue your claim is for everyone to believe your claim already, that makes your claim moot.  It also makes you amazingly ignorant or insidiously dishonest.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 27, 2009, 08:47:52 PM
The problem I have with it is that it says belief in God or gods.  I do not believe in gods.  I believe in the one true and living God.

Note, the emphasis added above to the word OR.

Do you believe in more than one god?  No.

Do you believe in a god? Yes.

You're a theist, specifically a monotheist.

Take a look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheistic)

Details: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=833 (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=833)

Ask your preacher/priest/... or anyone with a theology degree the following question;

"Are Christians theists?"

They'll tell you the same thing.  The alternative is being a non-theist (aka an "a-theist" or "atheist").
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 27, 2009, 08:52:33 PM
Others: welcome to the pit.

Wisdom in action.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 27, 2009, 08:55:36 PM
I just can't argue this.  I stated my opinion.  But I never said I was a Biblical scholar.  You do not have to be a biblical scholar to believe in God.  I know what the Bible says is true and it says that everything started with God.

In the beginning God created heaved and earth (Genesis 1:1)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 27, 2009, 09:06:44 PM
We've read your book.  We know what it says.  Personally, I've read it 2x.

Quoting or pointing to it doesn't prove your point.

You just sound like you are out of touch with reality when you can't say anything but the same thing over and over and over again.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 27, 2009, 09:28:20 PM
My response to you is what God said:

Passage Matthew 22:29:

But Jesus answered them, "You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.

Again as I told you we have to use the scriptures, because everything began with God and that is where our evidence comes from.  It is clear to me why you don't get it.  It is stated in the scripture
Passage 1 Corinthians 2:14:

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

At the present time, you are not able to spiritually discern.  But prayerfully that will change. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 27, 2009, 09:41:16 PM
Once again (and again and again), we've read your book.  I've read it TWICE.  Cover to cover.

Your book doesn't prove your book.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 27, 2009, 09:43:28 PM
ok
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 27, 2009, 09:45:26 PM
Additionally, your assertions about your deity don't make what you say true.

If you are right, then you have to show others who do not share your beliefs that they are credible.

Consider that you have an audience;

1 - A Jew (who rejects Christianity)

2 - A Tsoist (who doesn't know your book, but does know other books like the Tso de Ching)

3 - A Hindu (who doesn't know your book, but does know the Vedas)

Now, how would you tell *them*?

Why won't your deity heal amputees?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 27, 2009, 10:24:41 PM
I did answer this question at the top.  Maybe you want me to answer it again because you did not like the answer.  I guess you would call that circular (as you would put it).  The answer is the same. 

It doesn't matter who my audience is.  God is no respector of person. 

First God does heal amputees.  Does he grow limbs?  No.  The fact that one had the limb amputated reflects healing.  Because whether the limb was damaged by disease or accident, the person received healing because if they had left the affected limb on, they could have died or been sick.  In the bible he says if an eye is bad, pluck it out (I am paraphrasing for direct quotes, see my original answer) rather than keep it and let it poison the rest of the body.  Well here is shows that God did not intend to regrow limbs, because he would have said if your eye is bad, pluck it out and I will give you a new one.  But that's not what he said. 

Then I would give the people in the audience a chance to make Jesus their choice.  Our God heals, theirs don't.

Now here's your answer.  Again it must be spiritually discerned.  So don't worry if you don't understand it or like it.  Your eyes are not yet spiritual eyes.  But keep on pressing and the light will come on.


Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Astreja on March 27, 2009, 10:38:35 PM
First God does heal amputees.  Does he grow limbs?  No.  The fact that one had the limb amputated reflects healing.  Because whether the limb was damaged by disease or accident, the person received healing because if they had left the affected limb on, they could have died or been sick.

So where, exactly, does your god come into the picture?  It's generally a human physician who does the amputation of an injured or diseased limb.  The definition of "healing" that you've put forth here sounds entirely like something natural, with no supernatural or "spiritual" component whatsoever.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on March 27, 2009, 10:39:23 PM
And the amputees that still die? Did god heal them?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 27, 2009, 11:20:31 PM
It doesn't matter who my audience is.  God is no respector of person.

Yet, you've explained nothing to your audience.

So, how do *YOU* communicate to -- talk with -- *YOUR* audience?

So far, here's a fragment of what they would likely think.  Just as you would reject the Hindu's comments on Vishnu, the Tsoist would shake their head and smile knowing you are unaware of the true spiritual nature of things.  They all would be laughing at you for your lack of spiritual depth.

If your only reply to any question is to repeat the same thing over and over and not to talk with those who talk to you, then you are truly ossified.  As that seems to be the case, I leave you with one comment;

Forgotten were the elementary rules of logic, that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. (http://www.slate.com/id/2090083)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on March 28, 2009, 10:28:52 AM
Well here is shows that God did not intend to regrow limbs, because he would have said if your eye is bad, pluck it out and I will give you a new one.  But that's not what he said. 

Speculation. The verse is clearly meant as an analogy and not an explanation for God not restoring missing limbs. Besides, Jesus himself restored an ear, though that does not count as evidence because all we have is what is written in the bible about that story, so it doesn't hold water, but that would contradict your assertion on why God does not heal an amputee.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 28, 2009, 07:06:54 PM
First God does heal amputees.  Does he grow limbs?  No.  The fact that one had the limb amputated reflects healing. 

I'll bet that most people that have had limbs surgically amputated don't feel very "healed."  I sure wouldn't.  How about people who are missing limbs because of congenital defects?  They are born that way, so God has nothing to heal in that case.  He is apparently just punishing these people for some unknown reason and then refusing later to perform a bonified miracle by growing the missing limbs for them later.  Sounds like they just get a s**tty deal all around.

Because whether the limb was damaged by disease or accident, the person received healing because if they had left the affected limb on, they could have died or been sick.

Here's a good story for you.  I used to work in a hospital and had to witness the autopsy of a guy who had been in a logging truck accident.  His left leg had been amputated above the knee and he was pinned in the cab long enough to where he bled to death from the amputation.  Seems to me like your healing God did failed that guy and didn't even do anything to slow his blood loss from the unhealed amputation.  In that case, as Astreja mentioned, it would have been up to the first responders to get there in time to save the guy's life.  IOW human intervention would have worked where divine intervention failed.  No healed amputation, no one there to help, no more truck driver.

In the bible he says if an eye is bad, pluck it out (I am paraphrasing for direct quotes, see my original answer) rather than keep it and let it poison the rest of the body.

I was under the impression that referred to your eye seeing something that tempts you.

Mark 9:47 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=9&verse=47&version=31&context=verse)

Quote
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell

Well here is shows that God did not intend to regrow limbs, because he would have said if your eye is bad, pluck it out and I will give you a new one.  But that's not what he said. 

Right, but you've completely mangled the verse, so it wouldn't work if the audience knows the bible better than you.  If I were your audience members I'd also be wanting to know why you hadn't plucked out both eyes, since you are commanded by Christ to do this when tempted into sin.  I also wouldn't be too inclined to join any religion that required me to pluck my eyes out for any reason.

So, I would say you've failed to convince Hermes' panel of non-Christian theists.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 28, 2009, 08:13:19 PM
The problem I have with it is that it says belief in God or gods.  I do not believe in gods.  I believe in the one true and living God.

Yet you simply cannot prove he is alive or the one true God. Belief is all you have.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 30, 2009, 01:04:08 PM
I just can't argue this.  I stated my opinion.

Because you're not arguing anything, your simply making baseless assertions.  What value do your claims have unless you can demonstrate the intellectual capacity to validate them?

Quote
 But I never said I was a Biblical scholar.

Actually, you've done something more arrogant and dishonest.  You've claimed things that even biblical scholars do not claim.  From history to inerrancy, you've made claims about the bible that do not compute with modern day biblical scholarship.  The sad reality is that most of your reasoning for belief is based on entirely false beliefs about the bible, with the inclusion of out right dishonest circular claims.

Quote
You do not have to be a biblical scholar to believe in God.  I know what the Bible says is true and it says that everything started with God.

How do you know its true?

Oh wait, you never bother to answer that because you can't.  You actually have no evidence and instead use an idiotic fallacy to claim a belief you are emotionally dependent upon.  That in itself, is the demonstration that what you claim to believe is entirely imaginary.

Quote
In the beginning God created heaved and earth (Genesis 1:1)

As meaningless as the first sentence in the childrens book "green eggs and ham".  We need not presume anything about it and only need to ask the question why to destroy your claim at its basis.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 30, 2009, 01:31:11 PM
How do you know there is no God? Who created you?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 30, 2009, 01:39:37 PM
Who created you?

My parents.  Didn't your parents teach about how babies are made?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 30, 2009, 01:50:21 PM
How did it all begin?  Surely your ancestors weren't monkeys.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on March 30, 2009, 01:53:19 PM
How did it all begin?  Surely your ancestors weren't monkeys.

No, but they were primates.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Cumulo Nimbus on March 30, 2009, 02:12:48 PM
Stumbling in a little late...
Didn't notice this thread until today...and things are getting mighty...interesting...
 /bookmark in the pit
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 30, 2009, 02:23:45 PM
It's ok that I am in the pit.  Jesus was persecuted, so I expect to be persecuted for his name sake.  It still does not change the fact that God heals amputees as I have explained.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 30, 2009, 02:35:00 PM
It's ok that I am in the pit.  Jesus was persecuted, so I expect to be persecuted for his name sake.  It still does not change the fact that God heals amputees as I have explained.

You have explained nothing.  Your attempt at explanation fails, so we are no futher along than before you started this topic.  Everything you have posited towards explaining your belief has been questioned and you have no answers for those questions.  You have not shown that God heals amputees, and your repeated assertions that you have shown your arguments to be fact does not make them so.

I would also like to add that, IMO, your "explanations" have far less substance than some of the other arguments I've seen by Christians here.  So you have nothing to show for your efforts, except in having thoroughly discredited yourself.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 30, 2009, 02:38:03 PM
How do you know there is no God?

I do not know there is no god, anymore then I know what a god is.  God is simply a word that doesn't have any meaning.

I do know that the god you claim is imaginary however, because your belief is based purely upon an emotionally contrived dependency.  All of your claims are circular, based on error and even misinformation.

Quote
Who created you?

Well, you see, when a human male has intercourse with a human female there is the chance that the males sperm will impregnate the human female by burrowing into an egg cell.  I am 'created' in that sense.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 30, 2009, 02:42:16 PM
It's ok that I am in the pit.  Jesus was persecuted, so I expect to be persecuted for his name sake.  It still does not change the fact that God heals amputees as I have explained.

Persecution is defined as:

# Persecution is the systematic mistreatment of an individual/group by another group. The most common forms are religious persecution, ethnic ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution


Your post is in this forum because of the style of behavior your exhibiting, not because of what you are.  When you are openly belligerent, dishonest, and prone to ignorance it usually devalues the experience on a public forum.  Hence, the forum has rules that are targeted towards that type of behavior.  The fact that you believe in a god and are a christian is irrelevant.  Anyone's claim, regardless of them being theist or atheist can be in this portion of the message board.

If you're going to claim to be persecuted, then I must insist you actually explain HOW you're being persecuted based on what persecution actually means.  Otherwise, your simply falling back an emotional persecution complex because your too stupid to defend your own claims.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 30, 2009, 02:46:33 PM
Truth, you need to understand that even if we gave you the benefit of the doubt that a god existed, your claims are so stupid and error riddled that they don't actually argue for that god.  You have effectively made it impossible for yourself ever to determine if a god existed even if there is one, by using a fallacy to make one up out of your own imagination.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 30, 2009, 02:59:52 PM
How do you know there is no God?

I do not know there is no god, anymore then I know what a god is.  God is simply a word that doesn't have any meaning.


Quote
Who created you?

Well, you see, when a human male has intercourse with a human female there is the chance that the males sperm will impregnate the human female by burrowing into an egg cell.  I am 'created' in that sense.

And when did this start?  Who created the first man? Who created the first woman?

The word God has meaning.  All words have meaning. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on March 30, 2009, 03:06:36 PM
And when did this start?  Who created the first man? Who created the first woman?

The word God has meaning.  All words have meaning. 

Why does every theist on here try to take all discussions in this direction? It means nothing to the topic at hand, so stop trying to get us to go down that particular rabbit trail again. Surely you can go about proving your beliefs without having to question the nature of existence, can't you?

But really, let's be honest here, you're going down this road because you've run out of options.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 30, 2009, 03:07:36 PM
And when did this start?  Who created the first man? Who created the first woman?

There are several kinds of speciation, related to certain environmental conditions, but there is no such thing as a 'first human male' or 'first human female'.  Our evolutionary ancestors were varied and many, encompassing different gradual changes that were further complicated by HGT.  The oldest 'human' would have been very human, but with slight differences we don't associate with being 'human'.  Such as feet capable of grasping or generally more 'hairy'.  The tree of life is more like a tree of webs, with gradual dileanation of webs into individual species that become their own webs.

Truth, you should undestand that your questioning is 'flawed'.  There is no reasoning to assume a 'who' or even assume 'creation'.  The inevitable conclusion you are getting it is 'who' ( which isn't necessary nor do we need to presume a who ) 'created' ( which isn't necessarry nor do we nee dto presume being created ) life itself.  The idiotic thing about your position is that a god could exist regardless of abiogenesis or evolution being true, you're so stupid and caught up with your emotional imaginary beliefs that you're more then willing to lie and attack science itself.   You don't seem to understand once again, that if we given you the benefit of the doubt - all of your god claims actually remove your ability to determine what is true with or without a god.

Quote
The word God has meaning.  All words have meaning. 

Special pleading, as I've pointed out a thousand times already, you no more know if there is a god or if the text in the bible is the word of a god.  You use circular reasoning to assume it before you know ti to be true, it devoids you of the ability to determine what is true.  Just like it makes you entirely incapable of answering our questions when we ask them, all you can do is just repeat your claim.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 30, 2009, 03:09:11 PM
How did it all begin?  Surely your ancestors weren't monkeys.

No, but they were primates.

According to the dictionary primate
ri·mate      (pr?'m?t, -m?t')  Pronunciation Key
n.  

   1. (pr?'m?t') A mammal of the order Primates, which includes the anthropoids and prosimians, characterized by refined development of the hands and feet, a shortened snout, and a large brain.

Do you have a shortened snout?  When did you lose your tail?  Me I came from the seed of Adam and Abraham.  They are in my ancestry line?  Are there monkeys in your line or what?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 30, 2009, 03:17:31 PM
How did it all begin?  Surely your ancestors weren't monkeys.

No, but they were primates.

According to the dictionary primate
ri·mate      (pr?'m?t, -m?t')  Pronunciation Key
n.  

   1. (pr?'m?t') A mammal of the order Primates, which includes the anthropoids and prosimians, characterized by refined development of the hands and feet, a shortened snout, and a large brain.

Do you have a shortened snout?  When did you lose your tail?  Me I came from the seed of Adam and Abraham.  They are in my ancestry line?  Are there monkeys in your line or what?

You are an ape actually, in the ape family.  I am an ape as well.

Yes, I have a shortened snout compared to my evolutionary predecessor.  I also have a refined development of my hands and feet.  Yes, we actually lost our tails except for the vestigial remains of the tail that still remains.   Its represented enough in our DNA that a mutation can cause our 'tail' to extend.  The tail is actually present in your development as a fetus, but is gradually reabsorbed by the body.

The same happens with many other animals, not just ourselves.  Birds for example have vestigial remains of tails, which first appear in the fetal state before being reabsorbed.  We can even turn on the expression for teeth in birds, just like their evolutionary predecessor.


I would point out to you that, this all being true, is entirely irrelevant to the existence of a god or not.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 30, 2009, 03:17:47 PM
Truth, you didn't even read your own quote.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on March 30, 2009, 03:18:57 PM
1. (pr?'m?t') A mammal of the order Primates, which includes the anthropoids and prosimians, characterized by refined development of the hands and feet, a shortened snout, and a large brain.

Do you have a shortened snout?  When did you lose your tail?  Me I came from the seed of Adam and Abraham.  They are in my ancestry line?  Are there monkeys in your line or what?

Primate Classification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate#Classification) (from Wikipedia)

Look near the end. You'll see that we are classified as Primates. And the man who did the classification? Carl Linnaeus, a professing Christian. (http://www.linnaeus300.com/carl-linnaeus/)

Quote
Behold... the teeth, the hand and fingers, and you will see how relatively closely we are related to the baboons and apes, indeed the satyrs of the forest.

See how easy that was? All nicely sourced and everything! It's not hard to prove a point...when your point is provable that is.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 30, 2009, 03:21:14 PM
Should Truth's quote be reported as plagiarism?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 30, 2009, 03:22:25 PM
What you say is mumbo jumbo.  It speaks to the existence of God in that God is our creator.

Passage Isaiah 40:28:

   28 Have you never heard?
      Have you never understood?
   The Lord is the everlasting God,
      the Creator of all the earth.
   He never grows weak or weary.
      No one can measure the depths of his understanding.
 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 30, 2009, 03:25:19 PM
What you say is mumbo jumbo.

Its called science and education. 

Quote
 It speaks to the existence of God in that God is our creator.

So mumbo jumbo speaks to the existence of a god?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 30, 2009, 03:26:39 PM
Should Truth's quote be reported as plagerism?

Do what you want.  I cited the source as the wikipedia.  Telling lies about me only shows how desperate you are to get me off here, because you can't stand up to the truth.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 30, 2009, 03:29:41 PM
You didn't cite wikipedia.  You said "the dictionary" of which there are quite a few.  You also didn't enclose the quotation properly.  Therefore it wouldn't be a lie to say that you were plagiarizing.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 30, 2009, 03:31:27 PM
Dictionary/encyclopedia.  I didn't say it was mine.  But like I said do what you want.  I don't care.  You cannot beat God. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 30, 2009, 03:34:22 PM
Should Truth's quote be reported as plagerism?

Do what you want.  I cited the source as the wikipedia.  Telling lies about me only shows how desperate you are to get me off here, because you can't stand up to the truth.

You've never spoken anything that you can identify as 'truth'.  We have asked you repeatedly to do so, but you always avoid doing so.  I must also point out that you have demonstrated a willful dishonesty many times over in other threads by purposefully jumping around or dodging questions which undermine your claims.  You always seem to exhibit enough understanding to avoid those posts that do the most damage, such as my list of countless biblical errors or the fact that I've pointed out dozens of times now that no biblical scholars actually arrive to the claims you make about the bible.   Just like you avoid the post that points out that your claims are so error riddled, that if there was a god you'd never be able to determine it true or not based on your use of logic.  Not to mention the posts from countless individuals, not just myself, pointing out that you answer questions about your claims by repeating your claims.

You have in every way and function demonstrated a concerted effort to be less then honest and sincere.  You offer no explanation and simply move on as if you've never done it.  You give us every reason in order to not believe your own claims, you're essentially alienating the very people you're trying to convince.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 30, 2009, 03:37:46 PM
Dictionary/encyclopedia.  I didn't say it was mine.  But like I said do what you want.  I don't care.  You cannot beat God. 

Don't have too, don't know what god is or even if one exists.

All we have to do is point out that your every claim is an ignorant laced diatribe of imaginary emotional dependencies after another.  All we have to do is show that your every statement is an attack on the very function of learning, education, and knowledge.  All we have to do is equip the audience who reads these posts with the information required to understand how you are wrong.  You are helping us build an argument against belief that uses you as an example of the type of ignorance that faith creates.  There could just as easily be a god, but the manner in which you claim belief will forever and always make it impossible for you to even know if there is one.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Ambassador Pony on March 30, 2009, 04:06:29 PM
How arrogant does someone have to be to completely dismiss something as "mumbo jumbo", that they have hardly any understading of?

The immorality of it is enough to make one sick to their stomach.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 30, 2009, 04:13:33 PM
Dictionary/encyclopedia.  I didn't say it was mine.  But like I said do what you want.  I don't care.  You cannot beat God. 

Don't have too, don't know what god is or even if one exists.

All we have to do is point out that your every claim is an ignorant laced diatribe of imaginary emotional dependencies after another.  All we have to do is show that your every statement is an attack on the very function of learning, education, and knowledge.  All we have to do is equip the audience who reads these posts with the information required to understand how you are wrong.  You are helping us build an argument against belief that uses you as an example of the type of ignorance that faith creates.  There could just as easily be a god, but the manner in which you claim belief will forever and always make it impossible for you to even know if there is one.

You keep doing what you are doing and I will keep doing what I am doing and we will see in the end who wins.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 30, 2009, 04:21:35 PM
Dictionary/encyclopedia.  I didn't say it was mine.  But like I said do what you want.  I don't care.  You cannot beat God. 

Don't have too, don't know what god is or even if one exists.



Here's proof

Passage Jeremiah 10:10:

   But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

Passage John 17:3:
3 And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Ambassador Pony on March 30, 2009, 04:23:54 PM

You keep doing what you are doing and I will keep doing what I am doing and we will see in the end who wins.

Another sickening remark. You call having a fellow human being totured for eternity 'winning'? 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 30, 2009, 04:40:53 PM
Here's proof

Definitions of proof on the Web:

    * any factual evidence that helps to establish the truth of something; "if you have any proof for what you say, now is the time to produce it"


You do not use the actual definition of 'proof'.  Text on paper does not equate to facts, nor does it help you establish the truth of something.  You also willfully avoid questions that ask you how your citation is 'proof' of anything, that doesn't have you immediately repeating your same claim we just asked a question about.

Quote
Biblical nonsense

The bible is not proof of anything without logical explanation.  Citing it does not equate to evidence, explanatory information, proof, or 'reasoning'.  It does not make an argument in itself.  Since you refuse to explain anything even when we ask, then you are being dishonest.  Remember, the only thing we need to cite you as being a liar is the willful attempt to deceive.  Its only sad that you claim a moral authority that would condemn you for your lie, not to mention that you think a lie is convincing.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 30, 2009, 04:41:56 PM
You keep doing what you are doing and I will keep doing what I am doing and we will see in the end who wins.

Win what?  I wasn't aware we were in a competition?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on March 30, 2009, 04:44:36 PM
You keep doing what you are doing and I will keep doing what I am doing and we will see in the end who wins.

Win what?  I wasn't aware we were in a competition?

He means he'll be up in Heaven having angels feed him grapes for all eternity while you're suffering eternal torment and yelling out "Truth told me all I needed to know! Why didn't I listen!"

Sounds like the fantasy of a corrupt mind to me.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 30, 2009, 04:47:26 PM
He means he'll be up in Heaven having angels feed him grapes for all eternity while you're suffering eternal torment and yelling out "Truth told me all I needed to know! Why didn't I listen!"

Sounds like the fantasy of a corrupt mind to me.

Sounds like someone consumed with pride and ego.  Which I think has just as much to do with fundamentalism as a lack of education or a lower IQ does.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 30, 2009, 04:49:20 PM
Here's proof

I gave you proof from the bible, which was written by smart mean and women.  I also gave you instances of how I had personally experienced God.  It's your choice not to believe it.  I guess when you were in school and the teacher introduced new material, you chose not to believe him.  In order for learning to take place, you have to make a decision to believe the information.  I am not going to force it.  The fact that you say you don't believe it does not make it false.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on March 30, 2009, 04:59:23 PM
I gave you proof from the bible, which was written by smart mean and women.

Which doesn't comprise proof because it has no explanatory power, no facts, and does not help one to establish what is true.  Even when asked, you cannot even deliver the terms that would make it 'proof'.

Quote
 I also gave you instances of how I had personally experienced God.

And everyone promptly explained how you could never actually determine that you had experienced god through these descriptions.  You simply use the same circular fallacy you use for belief to subscribe it to your experience.  You don't even bother to respond to explain how you know it to be true.

Quote
 It's your choice not to believe it.

No belief for anyone is ever a matter of 'choice'.  I can no more walk outside and have a pet dragon fly me to work then I can to suddenly have a pocket full of gold.  I have never been able to 'choose' to believe in anything and it won't start now.  The only thing I can do is wait for sufficient reason and evidence to believe.

But you don't provide sufficient reason or evidence to believe, you don't even respect people or are honest/sincere enough to provide sufficient reason and evidence.  You simply cite things that are not evidence without explanation and use idiotic personal experiences that even if they were true would only be evidence for you ( and no one else ).

Quote
 I guess when you were in school and the teacher introduced new material, you chose not to believe him.

Learning is a methodological process of explanation, observation, and understanding.

You provide nothing to be explained.  You provide nothing to be observed.  You provide nothing that could be understood.  Even when we ask you, you provide nothing.

Quote
 In order for learning to take place, you have to make a decision to believe the information.

False.  Learning only need take place after the explanation has matched the observation and become understanding.  You don't explain, there is nothing to observe, and you offer no help in understanding.

Quote
 I am not going to force it.  The fact that you say you don't believe it does not make it false.

Never said that, again do not say I say things I've never said.  That is dishonest.

The opposite is also true,"The fact that you say you believe it does not make it true."  Since all you do is say you believe it, then you do not actually know it to be true.  Just like using circular reasoning makes it impossible to determine what is true.

I would go a step further and actually say that your claimed god doesn't exist.  It is imaginary because you use pre-conceived notions of attributes to assign to an imagined character.  You use nothing more then your own personal authority and intuition to make up belief out of thin air with no explanation whatsoever.  That makes your god a self projetion of you, ie it makes god imaginary.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on March 30, 2009, 11:32:23 PM

You keep doing what you are doing and I will keep doing what I am doing and we will see in the end who wins.

Another sickening remark. You call having a fellow human being totured for eternity 'winning'? 

Apparently the truth about Truth is that he's as sadistic and evil as his God.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 31, 2009, 06:39:03 AM
Jesus wins in the end.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 31, 2009, 06:42:23 AM
I gave you proof from the bible, which was written by smart mean and women.

Believe it or not, many smart men and women write articles for the National Enquirer, Sun, and Weekly World News. This means that everything that you find in the pages of these mags must be true!
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 31, 2009, 07:35:44 AM
The difference in the writing of smart people writing for secular magazines and newspapers are that their words are not for the most part God inspired (or at least they don't claim it).  I am sure some of them are Christians and God gives them wisdom to write on various topics.  The scriptures were all inspired by God. So this is why everything that secular people write is not necessarily true.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 31, 2009, 07:41:07 AM
The difference in the writing of smart people writing for secular magazines and newspapers are that their words are not for the most part God inspired (or at least they don't claim it).  I am sure some of them are Christians and God gives them wisdom to write on various topics.  The scriptures were all inspired by God. So this is why everything that secular people write is not necessarily true.

These words mean all the difference.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Dkit on March 31, 2009, 07:45:56 AM
I am having a hard time understanding how you aren't grasping what is being posted in your threads.  You no more KNOW the bible is inspired by God as the muslims KNOW the qu'ran is inspired by God. 

You cannot not objectively demonstrate for us or yourself how you've come to the conclusion that there is a god and that God is the particular one you worship.  You are a product of your place of birth and upbringing. 

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 31, 2009, 07:47:36 AM
I am having a hard time understanding how you aren't grasping what is being posted in your threads. 

Because he's either a troll or too far gone.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Dkit on March 31, 2009, 08:47:20 AM
I am having a hard time understanding how you aren't grasping what is being posted in your threads. 

Because he's either a troll or too far gone.
I think too far gone.  It's sad.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on March 31, 2009, 09:29:39 AM
I think too far gone.  It's sad.

And remember, he plans to be here until "God" tells him to leave.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Operator_014 on March 31, 2009, 01:00:17 PM
Dictionary/encyclopedia.  I didn't say it was mine.  But like I said do what you want.  I don't care.  You cannot beat God. 

Don't have too, don't know what god is or even if one exists.

All we have to do is point out that your every claim is an ignorant laced diatribe of imaginary emotional dependencies after another.  All we have to do is show that your every statement is an attack on the very function of learning, education, and knowledge.  All we have to do is equip the audience who reads these posts with the information required to understand how you are wrong.  You are helping us build an argument against belief that uses you as an example of the type of ignorance that faith creates.  There could just as easily be a god, but the manner in which you claim belief will forever and always make it impossible for you to even know if there is one.

You keep doing what you are doing and I will keep doing what I am doing and we will see in the end who wins.

Truth, unless you are intending to respond to the discussion rather than just preachign and making threats, you are trolling.  Consider this your first warning. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 31, 2009, 01:21:40 PM
The difference in the writing of smart people writing for secular magazines and newspapers are that their words are not for the most part God inspired (or at least they don't claim it).  I am sure some of them are Christians and God gives them wisdom to write on various topics.  The scriptures were all inspired by God. So this is why everything that secular people write is not necessarily true.

These words mean all the difference.

I agree with you.  These writers claim.  God's word is true.  

Passage Psalm 119:160:

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 31, 2009, 01:29:17 PM
Dictionary/encyclopedia.  I didn't say it was mine.  But like I said do what you want.  I don't care.  You c

Truth, unless you are intending to respond to the discussion rather than just preachign and making threats, you are trolling.  Consider this your first warning. 

As far as I know I have not been preaching.  Can you tell me what you define as preaching?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Astreja on March 31, 2009, 07:19:34 PM
These writers claim... "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."

But why do you believe that verse?  I doubt that you were present at "the beginning"; I also doubt that you are privy to "every one of (Biblegod's) righteous judgments", and even if you were, you aren't in a position to know how long they might endure.

Please give, in your own words, a definition of the logical fallacy petitio principii.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 31, 2009, 07:56:17 PM
The difference in the writing of smart people writing for secular magazines and newspapers are that their words are not for the most part God inspired (or at least they don't claim it).  I am sure some of them are Christians and God gives them wisdom to write on various topics.  The scriptures were all inspired by God. So this is why everything that secular people write is not necessarily true.

These words mean all the difference.

I agree with you.  These writers claim.  God's word is true.  

Passage Psalm 119:160:

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.


Please show me in the bible where bible=word of god.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on March 31, 2009, 08:16:04 PM
As far as I know I have not been preaching.  Can you tell me what you define as preaching?

... and a comedian too!
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 31, 2009, 08:22:30 PM
Good question.  The word Bible as far as I know is not in the Scripture.  But there are other words that mean Bible such as Scripture; word of the Lord; Sword of the Spirit, book of the Law
Bible as defined by Webster.com  is the sacred scriptures of Christians comprising the Old Testament and the New Testament

You do agree that things can have different names.  For instance my nickname is Truth, by real name is Jackie.  I have more than one name.  Thus the Bible has more than one name.

Passage Joshua 24:27:
   27And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us; for it hath heard all the words of the LORD which he spake unto us: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.
Passage 2 Samuel 22:31:
   31As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.
"For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope." (Romans 15:4).
"For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope." (Romans 15:4).
Take...the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (Ephesians 6: 17).
Would you prefer I called it Scripture?  If that makes you feel better, I would do it.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on March 31, 2009, 08:23:17 PM
As far as I know I have not been preaching.  Can you tell me what you define as preaching?

Let me put it in babytalk for you, Truth, as you don't seem to be capable of understanding a much higher level of communication.

Stop posting bible verses that generally have nothing to do with the discussion (and stop even if it does in some way). If you don't, you'll probably find yourself banned.

Capiche? (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/capiche)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on March 31, 2009, 08:34:56 PM
The verses have everything to do with the topic.  I am careful to find verses that are relevant to the topic being discussed.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on March 31, 2009, 08:36:27 PM
The verses have everything to do with the topic.  I am careful to find verses that are relevant to the topic being discussed.

Hey, moron, you were warned by a moderator. Do what you will, but don't act surprised if one day you can't log in anymore.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on March 31, 2009, 08:59:51 PM
Good question.  The word Bible as far as I know is not in the Scripture.  But there are other words that mean Bible such as Scripture; word of the Lord; Sword of the Spirit, book of the Law

I will agree that scripture can be the bible, but not the others. Unless you can give biblical evidence to refute?

Quote
Bible as defined by Webster.com  is the sacred scriptures of Christians comprising the Old Testament and the New Testament

You do agree that things can have different names.  For instance my nickname is Truth, by real name is Jackie.  I have more than one name.  Thus the Bible has more than one name.

Yes, "Work of Fiction" fits nicely.

Quote
Passage Joshua 24:27:
   27And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us; for it hath heard all the words of the LORD which he spake unto us: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.

Not bible, but words that Joshua claimed came from Jehovah.

Quote
Passage 2 Samuel 22:31:
   31As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.

Not bible, but the words spoken by prophets at the time.

Quote
"For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope." (Romans 15:4).

Scriptures, never called the "word of God"

Quote
Take...the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (Ephesians 6: 17).

Never equated to the bible.

Quote
Would you prefer I called it Scripture?  If that makes you feel better, I would do it.


Sure, because the foundation you've been trying to build crumbles when you do.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agent_007 on April 01, 2009, 06:33:34 AM
The verses have everything to do with the topic.  I am careful to find verses that are relevant to the topic being discussed.


Truth, if I quoted to you verses from the Qu'ran to support my position on an issue, what would be your view of those verses?


Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 06:56:55 AM
I don't know.  Quote something from the Quran and I will match it up against the truth.  I would venture to say that there are some truths in the Quran.  I don't know though since I have never seen one.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on April 01, 2009, 07:00:16 AM
I don't know.  Quote something from the Quran and I will match it up against the truth.  I would venture to say that there are some truths in the Quran.  I don't know though since I have never seen one.

And what "truth" would you match it up against?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 07:18:10 AM
The Bible, the Holy word of God
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on April 01, 2009, 07:34:23 AM
The Bible, the Holy word of God
And how do you evaluate the truth value of that, or do you simply assume that it is the "truth"?

According to Muslims, the Bible isn't the holy word of God; the Qur'an is. So in what respect do you think your deliberations would have any relevance to a Muslim?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 08:29:55 AM
As I have said before the musulim's god is dead in the ground.  allah, I believe is his name.  My God, the only true and living God is alive in Heaven.  Their never raised anyone from the dead and ascended them into Heaven.  Their god did not create heaven and earth, my God did.  They reference God, they just get confused as to who he is.

Passage Jeremiah 10:10:

But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: dmnemaine on April 01, 2009, 08:32:03 AM
As I have said before the musulim's god is dead in the ground.  allah, I believe is his name.  My God, the only true and living God is alive in Heaven.  Their never raised anyone from the dead and ascended them into Heaven.  Their god did not create heaven and earth, my God did.  They reference God, they just get confused as to who he is.

Passage Jeremiah 10:10:

But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

You didn't answer deus's question.  Let me put it very simply for you.

How do you know that the bible is "truth"?

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on April 01, 2009, 08:34:50 AM
As I have said before the musulim's god is dead in the ground.

And on what do you base that assertion?

Quote
allah, I believe is his name.

Do you know what "Allah" means?

Quote
My God, the only true and living God is alive in Heaven.  Their never raised anyone from the dead and ascended them into Heaven.  Their god did not create heaven and earth, my God did.  They reference God, they just get confused as to who he is.

Passage Jeremiah 10:10:

But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

A Muslim would say precisely the same about you (though with a surah from the Qur'an in place of Jer 10:10) so you're back at square one.

Your assertions without substance are becoming tiresome. I asked a direct question, to whit: And how do you evaluate the truth value of that, or do you simply assume that it is the "truth"? You have notably failed to address this question. Merely repeating scriptural quotes compounds the error, for it still begs the question. From what are you trying to hide? Would you please answer the question put to you, instead of acting like a dishonest politician and answering tangential questions of your own device instead? Are you simply a robot, who has nothing to say for themselves, but can only recite dogma?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 08:39:17 AM
How do you know and egg is an egg?  It's the same thing.

I think I did answer his question.  Maybe you didn't like the answer, but I answered it.  If you have another question, let me know.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on April 01, 2009, 08:40:42 AM
How do you know and egg is an egg?  It's the same thing.

What? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Quote
I think I did answer his question.  Maybe you didn't like the answer, but I answered it.  If you have another question, let me know.

No, you did not. I asked how you evaluate the truth value of that (the Bible).
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: dmnemaine on April 01, 2009, 08:53:25 AM
How do you know and egg is an egg?  It's the same thing.

I think I did answer his question.  Maybe you didn't like the answer, but I answered it.  If you have another question, let me know.

An egg is an egg because "egg" is the word used in english to describe the female gamete.  

What you are implying is that you know that an egg is an egg because it's an egg.  It's called circular logic, and doesn't mean anything.

By the same token, the bible is true because the bible is true is the same type of tautological circular logic.  It doesn't mean anything.  

Since I was able to tell you why an egg is an egg without resorting to circular logic, you should be able to tell me why you believe that the bible is true without resorting to it either.

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 08:54:58 AM
How do you know and egg is an egg?  It's the same thing.

What? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Quote
I think I did answer his question.  Maybe you didn't like the answer, but I answered it.  If you have another question, let me know.

No, you did not. I asked how you evaluate the truth value of that (the Bible).

You question how do I know the bible is the truth makes no sense whatsoever.  My point exactly.

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 09:05:22 AM
As I have said before the musulim's god is dead in the ground.



Do you know what "Allah" means?


 And how do you evaluate the truth value of that, or do you simply assume that it is the "truth"? a?

No i do not know what allah mean.  I guess you are going to tell me.

One of the main tenets of Christianity is faith.  We walk by faith and not by sight.  It is my faith in what I have read, and things that I have experienced in my life that align themselves to the principles in the bible on which I evaluate the truth value.  In the Bible, there were many prophesies, mostly about the coming of Jesus and the prophesies were fulfilled.  Thus giving credibility to the scriptures.  Then in my own life, I have had personal experiences with God that further give credence to that the word of God is true and that God is alive.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Dkit on April 01, 2009, 09:09:12 AM
Quote from: Truth
mostly about the coming of Jesus and the prophesies were fulfilled.

No, they weren't.  I've already addressed this twice.


http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5311.msg118028#msg118028 (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5311.msg118028#msg118028)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on April 01, 2009, 09:10:48 AM
The difference in the writing of smart people writing for secular magazines and newspapers are that their words are not for the most part God inspired (or at least they don't claim it).

And you don't know that, neither do we need to know that using your logic.  We only need to claim as a presumed basis that they are gods word inspired through others.

Quote
  I am sure some of them are Christians and God gives them wisdom to write on various topics.  The scriptures were all inspired by God. So this is why everything that secular people write is not necessarily true.

The enquirer magazine is all inspired by god. It is the word of god and always true.

See? I can be as stupid and intellectually dishonest as you.  All we need to do is sacrifice all inquiry, all knowledge, and all truth for the sake of a delusion.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on April 01, 2009, 09:16:13 AM
No i do not know what allah mean.  I guess you are going to tell me.

One of the main tenets of Christianity is faith.  We walk by faith and not by sight.  It is my faith in what I have read, and things that I have experienced in my life that align themselves to the principles in the bible on which I evaluate the truth value.

A muslim can claim the exact same thing.  All that is required is a delusional and illogical belief in a presuppositional claim.

Quote
 In the Bible, there were many prophesies, mostly about the coming of Jesus and the prophesies were fulfilled.

False.  Most christian messianic prophecies actually have nothing to do with the large majority of judaic messianic prophecies.  Christian messianic prophecy relies more upon ambiguous statements and obvious mistranslations for the purpose of writing prophecy into history after the fact rather then actually providing enough information to call it 'prophecy'.

Just like christian eschatology is in its entirety completely devoid of jewish eschatology, which is in the same bible.  Christians just ignore where prophecy is not fulfilled and check it off to the 'second coming' which also isn't in the bible.

Quote
 Thus giving credibility to the scriptures.  Then in my own life, I have had personal experiences with God that further give credence to that the word of God is true and that God is alive.

Your experiences are not adequate to anyone else but you.  They are also inadequate to yourself, since you demonstrate know ability to know how they are true in the first place.  You don't actually know or even have the capability to know that your 'experiences' are as you conclude.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 09:29:07 AM
Quote from: Truth
mostly about the coming of Jesus and the prophesies were fulfilled.

No, they weren't.  I've already addressed this twice.


http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5311.msg118028#msg118028 (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5311.msg118028#msg118028)

You say they weren't, I say they were.  I have written proof that they were.  My Bible outlines the prophecies and the scriptures that demonstrate they were fufilled.  I won't put them all up on this post, but if you email, I will give you a list of them.  I say they were fulfilled.  Are you Jewish?  Doesn't sound like you know much about that religion.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on April 01, 2009, 09:30:41 AM
You question how do I know the bible is the truth makes no sense whatsoever.  My point exactly.

Non sequitur. An egg is an egg because that's what we collectively define "egg" to mean. However, no book gets defined as "true" by fiat; that's not how it works. Things aren't true merely by virtue of the fact that someone carved or inscribed them on a bunch of scrolls, dried leaves, papyri, tablets of clay or stone, temple walls or any other media that were eventually collected together to form what we'd today call "sacred writings". You may claim that it's true, but if you're going to make such a claim, then you need to be able to consider your audience and be prepared to substantiate it. Otherwise, on what possible grounds would you expect anyone to treat such a claim with anything other than derision and contempt? On the face of it, your Bible is just as indistinguishable from bullshit as any other collection of works.

No i do not know what allah mean.  I guess you are going to tell me.

Not unless you want me too, but you can look it up. Again, I note that you didn't answer: on what do you base that assertion (that the Muslims' god is "dead in the ground")?

Quote
One of the main tenets of Christianity is faith.

Why do you think that is?

Quote
We walk by faith and not by sight.

That much is clear to those of us who can see. :D

Quote
It is my faith in what I have read, and things that I have experienced in my life that align themselves to the principles in the bible on which I evaluate the truth value.

The problem with that is that the Bible is a large collection of works, full of an assortment of passages and whose meanings are sufficiently vague or nebulous that people can validate just about any of their own preconceptions and declare that they "align themselves to the principles in the bible" (sic). And declaring "faith in what {you} have read" would appear to be essentially an admission that you do assume the Bible to be true from the outset - thus negating your ability to take a step back, think outside the box for a moment and consider: is it really true? how would I tell if it weren't? It's this inability that makes you a slave - not to any deity or truth or grand ideal, but to a dogma.

Quote
In the Bible, there were many prophesies, mostly about the coming of Jesus and the prophesies were fulfilled.  Thus giving credibility to the scriptures.

Actually that's far from clear (especially if you ask the Jews what they think about how the verses of their sacred texts were twisted out of all recognition, and I'm still awaiting a sensible explanation of why the city of Tyre still exists, in defiance of Biblical prophecy for millennia), but that's a topic for another thread, perhaps.

Quote
Then in my own life, I have had personal experiences with God that further give credence to that the word of God is true and that God is alive.

Personal experiences are two a penny, and have been (and still are) ascribed to all sorts of "divine" or "spiritual" entities: gods, spirits, ancestors and so on. None of these establish the truth of any specific belief-system. If they did, don't you think everyone who experienced such phenomena would come to the same set of conclusions?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 01, 2009, 09:34:15 AM
Quote from: Truth
mostly about the coming of Jesus and the prophesies were fulfilled.

No, they weren't.  I've already addressed this twice.


http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5311.msg118028#msg118028 (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5311.msg118028#msg118028)

You say they weren't, I say they were.  I have written proof that they were.  My Bible outlines the prophecies and the scriptures that demonstrate they were fufilled.  I won't put them all up on this post, but if you email, I will give you a list of them.  I say they were fulfilled.  Are you Jewish?  Doesn't sound like you know much about that religion.

By that standard I can give you written proof that Nostradamus' prophecies were fulfilled, so are you going to worship him as a prophet of God?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on April 01, 2009, 09:37:30 AM
I have written proof that they were.

Your claims of 'proof' do not actually meet the standard requirements of what is considered 'proof'.  You obviously do not have proof in any context that someone uses the word 'proof'.

Definitions of proof on the Web:

    * any factual evidence that helps to establish the truth of something; "if you have any proof for what you say, now is the time to produce it"

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Dkit on April 01, 2009, 09:37:50 AM
Quote from: Truth
mostly about the coming of Jesus and the prophesies were fulfilled.

No, they weren't.  I've already addressed this twice.


http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5311.msg118028#msg118028 (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5311.msg118028#msg118028)

You say they weren't, I say they were.  I have written proof that they were.  My Bible outlines the prophecies and the scriptures that demonstrate they were fufilled.  I won't put them all up on this post, but if you email, I will give you a list of them.  I say they were fulfilled.  Are you Jewish?  Doesn't sound like you know much about that religion.

Did you click on the link in my intitial post to you?  I referenced a Jewish website.  You know, the ones who's Messiah the prophecies are about.  If I am going to inquire about Jewish Messiah prophecies, I am not going to ask a Christian.  

Quote
Doesn't sound like you know much about that religion.
What I know is irrelevant when you consider that I offered a review of the prophecies from a Jews for Judaism website. 


Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 10:11:18 AM
You question how do I know the bible is the truth makes no sense whatsoever.  My point exactly.

Non sequitur. An egg is an egg because that's what we collectively define "egg" to mean. However, no book gets defined as "true" by fiat; that's not how it works. Things aren't true merely by virtue of the fact that someone carved or inscribed them on a bunch of scrolls, dried leaves, papyri, tablets of clay or stone, temple walls or any other media that were eventually collected together to form what we'd today call "sacred writings". You may claim that it's true, but if you're going to make such a claim, then you need to be able to consider your audience and be prepared to substantiate it. Otherwise, on what possible grounds would you expect anyone to treat such a claim with anything other than derision and contempt? On the face of it, your Bible is just as indistinguishable from bulls**t as any other collection of works.



Based on your logic.  The Bible is the true word of God because that what we collectively (in the Christian community) define it to mean.  You say that's not how it works.  Why not?  Who told you an egg was an egg? 

I will address your other concerns later, let's just deal with this one first. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on April 01, 2009, 10:23:11 AM
Based on your logic.  The Bible is the true word of God because that what we collectively (in the Christian community) define it to mean.

Sorry, your piddly collection of bibliolatrous malcontents and misfits doesn't get to redefine the English language like that. You do not own the language.

Please try again.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 10:33:20 AM
I convinced that you will refute all of my claims, no matter how much "evidence" I give you.  It's a game you are playing with me.  I see through it.  If you are not playing, tell me what kind of evidence do you need?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on April 01, 2009, 10:37:44 AM
I convinced that you will refute all of my claims, no matter how much "evidence" I give you.  It's a game you are playing with me.  I see through it.  If you are not playing, tell me what kind of evidence do you need?

"evidence" is right.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on April 01, 2009, 10:43:25 AM
I convinced that you will refute all of my claims, no matter how much "evidence" I give you.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Seeing as you haven't provided anything that merits the term "evidence" so far, though, I'll simply thank you for the compliment.

Quote
It's a game you are playing with me.  I see through it.

No game. I'm trying to help you to figure out why you think the way you do. Which may not be the way you think you do. :)

Quote
If you are not playing, tell me what kind of evidence do you need?

God would know, wouldn't He?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 10:56:13 AM
I convinced that you will refute all of my claims, no matter how much "evidence" I give you.  It's a game you are playing with me.  I see through it.  If you are not playing, tell me what kind of evidence do you need?

"evidence" is right.

ok speak up, what evidence do you need?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on April 01, 2009, 11:48:28 AM
ok speak up, what evidence do you need?

I mean that putting "evidence" in quotes was the right thing for you to do, Truth, because your "evidence" is anything but.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 12:25:32 PM
As I have said before the best evidence is you.  Who created you? Who created them?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on April 01, 2009, 12:38:50 PM
As I have said before the best evidence is you.  Who created you? Who created them?

I wasn't created for I have always existed.

I am God, Truth, and I created you and everyone else and everything you see, touch, hear, smell, and taste.

Heaven's a little dead right now, so I pass the time with my Heavenly Internet connection. Gigabit speeds up and down.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: dmnemaine on April 01, 2009, 12:41:37 PM
As I have said before the best evidence is you.  Who created you? Who created them?

My parents created me 45 years ago.  Their parents created them around 65 years ago.  

I know exactly where you're going with this.  That everything has a cause.  You are going to say that "God" is the "first cause".  There's only one problem with this.  If everything has a cause, then what caused God?

You will then answer that nothing caused God, he always was.  The problem is that you have to rework the "first cause" argument to account for God not having a cause.  This is called an ad hoc argument.  What is does is make your argument unfalsifiable, and therefore, logically fallacious.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 01, 2009, 12:42:17 PM
As I have said before the best evidence is you.  Who created you? Who created them?

Is that "evidence" or loaded questions that presuppose a divine creator?  If that is the best evidence you have then it utterly fails.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on April 01, 2009, 12:51:32 PM
I convinced that you will refute all of my claims,

Will will refute any claims that are not logically valid and comply with the most basic standards of facts, evidence, and objectivity.  The god claim is irrelevant, it is just one of many claims.

Quote
no matter how much "evidence" I give you.

You havn't provided us 'evidence', nor even explanation of what constitutes 'evidence'.

Quote
  It's a game you are playing with me.  I see through it. 

Asking you to be responsible for your claim is not a game.  I would do it for everyone, for any claim, and even for myself.  I fully admit to where I believe things I have no evidence for, I do not need to lie about that or pretend to know what I cannot know.

Quote
If you are not playing, tell me what kind of evidence do you need?

Depends upon the context of the claim itself.  You see, you're operating from a basis of claiming a 'supernatural' thing.  By its very definition, supernatural, cannot have 'evidence' for it since its definition places it outside of any empirical evidence in the first place.  God is just one of many ridiculous things claimed that people have no evidence for in the first place nor can describe how evidence would exist for it.

If a god does exist, then that god is a 'natural' as opposed to 'supernatural' entity.  However, that doesn't account for it being invisible or intangible in every way possible again making it impossible to know if its there.

Which brings us to the obvious problem: If the nature of a thing makes it impossible for you to know it exists then in what context would you ever claim to know its there?

Answer: You wouldn't, unless you are delusional or lying.

The only way out of this is to admit the obvious, that you "truth" don't actually know anything you claim as being truth nor do you have any logical manner to assign it as 'valid'.  You can still logically 'believe' in the possibility of a god, but never can you claim to 'know' as in a 'truth claim' that such a thing is actually there.  The deeper problem is that in not knowing, you cannot assign identify, definition, or concepts.  That makes religion, those belief systems that assign identification pointless. ( christianity is a religion moron ).  A fundamentalist like yourself is so deluded into the literalism of his/her belief, that you cannot have it any other way.

You are too arrogant and you are too dishonest to admit that you do not actually know.

Its no problem for me :) I admit to not knowing happily.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on April 01, 2009, 12:53:22 PM
FSTDT?

As I have said before the best evidence is you.  Who created you? Who created them?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 01:05:51 PM
As I have said before the best evidence is you.  Who created you? Who created them?

My parents created me 45 years ago.  Their parents created them around 65 years ago.  

I know exactly where you're going with this.  That everything has a cause.  You are going to say that "God" is the "first cause".  There's only one problem with this.  If everything has a cause, then what caused God?

You will then answer that nothing caused God, he always was.  The problem is that you have to rework the "first cause" argument to account for God not having a cause.  This is called an ad hoc argument.  What is does is make your argument unfalsifiable, and therefore, logically fallacious.

There is a simple answer, but it requires deep thought.  It is a spiritual answer to a spiritual question.  the answer is:
GOD IS
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 01, 2009, 01:10:32 PM
There is a simple answer, but it requires deep delusion thought.  It is a nonsense spiritual answer to a logical spiritual question.  the A better answer is:
GOD IS imaginary.

Fixed.

Edit: Fixed again.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on April 01, 2009, 01:10:36 PM
Truth, consider this as reading material;

http://www.snopes.com/glurge/glurge.asp (http://www.snopes.com/glurge/glurge.asp)

Also consider that you're about as effective as what is there.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 01:12:50 PM

Its no problem for me :) I admit to not knowing happily.

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 01:15:21 PM
There is a song we used to sing in Sunday School.  I know because the Bible tells me so.  That is where I stand today.  The Bible has all the evidence needed.  I have had personal experiences with God.  He has answered prayer in such a way that only he can answer.  My prayer is for you to know him as I do.  I feel that one day you will.  God loves you and he is patiently waiting for you. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on April 01, 2009, 01:23:27 PM
There is a song we used to sing in Sunday School.  I know because the Bible tells me so.

That is circular, it actually removes your ability to know.  It promotes stupidity, ignorance, anti-education, anti-knowledge, and anti-learning.  It is everything I just described in my post about you and to you, you're simply reinforcing what I just stated because you no real response to what I'm pointing out.

Quote
 That is where I stand today.  The Bible has all the evidence needed.

How is it evidence? Evidence of what?  How do you know any of it to be true?

Again, you don't actually know, you cannot even answer your questions, you don't even try, and you're too stupid/dishonest/arrogant to admit to it.  So why should we take you seriously about any claim?

Quote
 I have had personal experiences with God.

How do you know? Experience of what?  How do you know any of it to be true?

You lack any ability to not just answer that question, you can no more claim it to be true for others or even yourself.

Quote
 He has answered prayer in such a way that only he can answer.

Tautological, again you cannot actually know what you claim and you don't even bother to demonstrate how you do know.

Quote
 My prayer is for you to know him as I do.

I've already been a christian once, I realized that much of christianity ( or any religion ) is based upon emotional dependencies and propagates itself like a delusion.  I then discovered individuals like you, who were arrogant and dishonest about the entirety of the religion itself.  Your anti-intellectualism, anti-education, and anti-knowledge approach just helps to destroy rather then create.  You capitalize upon the innocence of children, preying upon them and placing them in a situation where they will grow up to realize they are being lied to.  This behavior in itself has done irreversible damage to any number of authoritarian religious literalist beliefs by driving each new generation farther and farther away.  

Quote
 I feel that one day you will.  God loves you and he is patiently waiting for you.  

Again, why should we take you seriously about any concept or claim you cannot validate?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 01, 2009, 01:24:30 PM
There is a song we used to sing in Sunday School.  I know because the Bible tells me so.  That is where I stand today.  The Bible has all the evidence needed.  I have had personal experiences with God.  He has answered prayer in such a way that only he can answer.  My prayer is for you to know him as I do.  I feel that one day you will.  God loves you and he is patiently waiting for you. 

Preaching.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 02:03:29 PM

That is circular, it actually removes your ability to know.  It promotes stupidity, ignorance, anti-education, anti-knowledge, and anti-learning.  It is everything I just described in my post about you and to you, you're simply reinforcing what I just stated because you no real response to what I'm pointing out.

How is it evidence? Evidence of what?  How do you know any of it to be true?

Again, you don't actually know, you cannot even answer your questions, you don't even try, and you're too stupid/dishonest/arrogant to admit to it.  So why should we take you seriously about any claim?

Quote
 I have had personal experiences with God.

How do you know? Experience of what?  How do you know any of it to be true?

You lack any ability to not just answer that question, you can no more claim it to be true for others or even yourself.

Tautological, again you cannot actually know what you claim and you don't even bother to demonstrate how you do know.

Quote
 My prayer is for you to know him as I do.

I've already been a christian once, I realized that much of christianity ( or any religion ) is based upon emotional dependencies and propagates itself like a delusion.  I then discovered individuals like you, who were arrogant and dishonest about the entirety of the religion itself.  Your anti-intellectualism, anti-education, and anti-knowledge approach just helps to destroy rather then create.  You capitalize upon the innocence of children, preying upon them and placing them in a situation where they will grow up to realize they are being lied to.  This behavior in itself has done irreversible damage to any number of authoritarian religious literalist beliefs by driving each new generation farther and farther away.  

Quote
 I feel that one day you will.  God loves you and he is patiently waiting for you.  

Again, why should we take you seriously about any concept or claim you cannot validate?

So calling me names proves something?  Let me ask you something.  How do you know it's not true? Prove there is no God.

The Bible is evidence of the existence of God and of Jesus.  It is packed with spiritual principles for successful living (called wisdom)

I will give you evidence of one experience I had with God.  I have had many, but this one is special.  I know you won't believe me, but just imagine if it is.  Because it is absolutely the truth.  One day when I was down, I was having a lot of trouble in my life, my marriage  was in trouble (saved by God by the way), my business had failed and my finances were in shambles.  On my way to church I prayed and asked God to let me hear from Him today.  I said even if it's just the cry of a baby, just let me know it's you.  Well the preacher got up (the preacher did not know any of my personal situation) and said I am going to preach, but first I have a message for "Truth" (she used my real name) and she gave me a word from the Lord that spoke to my exact situation.  Things she said were true, and things we foretold came true.  Now only God can do that.  I was really down that day, but he sent me a special word.  This is evidence to me.

I will admit there are lots of emotions in religion, some more than others.  But I am not talking about religion.  I am talking about Christianity, a personal relationship with God.  When you were a Christian, did you have a personal relationship with God.  Did he reveal himself to you.  If no, I would venture to say that maybe you were religious, but not a Christian.  Did you believe that Jesus was the son God and that he was raised from the dead and is seated at God's right hand.  If you answered yes to those questions, then I would be interested in exploring more of the topic with you.  Otherwise, I would say you were in fact not a Christian.  (not judging, just stating fact)

What way can I validate my "claim" as you put it?  I have told you that you were evidence, the Bible is evidence, and now I have shared my personal testimony with you.  What else do you need?  Tell me and I will do it.

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 01, 2009, 02:07:19 PM
Please do try to fix your quotes, Truth.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on April 01, 2009, 02:10:40 PM
So calling me names proves something?  Let me ask you something.  How do you know it's not true? Prove there is no God.

Don't have too.

I do not know what a god is, do not know where it is, do not know if its even there, and dont even know how to define it, and all I can say is I don't believe in one because I have no reason too.

I KNOW your statements are not true, because you provide nothing that would validate them as true.  You provide nothing that demands to be believed, no evidence that correlates with the claim being made, no logic that would reach the conclusion you make, and you're so arrogant/dishonest with the people asking you these questions that there really is no need to even entertain you as being serious.  You have done everything within your means to obfuscate, dismiss, and literally treat as dirt anyone that bothered to ask you questions when they first took you seriously.

Not to mention that if taken literally, the entirety of your bible is not true as I've already pointed out and you refuse to even engage me on that subject.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on April 01, 2009, 02:13:21 PM
The Bible is evidence of the existence of God and of Jesus.  It is packed with spiritual principles for successful living (called wisdom)

It is a book that is a collection of other books, those books have words.

Citing a book that has words in it as 'evidence' isn't evidence, it doesn't explain anything about what you 'claim' and you don't even try to explain anything when you cite it.  Why should I take it for anything more then a book with words in it?  How do you know any of it to be true?

Why should I take you seriously for citing something you REFUSE to explain?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Omen on April 01, 2009, 02:24:13 PM
I will give you evidence of one experience I had with God.  I have had many, but this one is special.  I know you won't believe me, but just imagine if it is.

Nothing you described logically allows someone to personally claim it as 'absolute' truth.  As I've pointed out and others have pointed out countless times, the reason we don't believe it is because there is something wrong with the logic behind the claim.  Personal experiences do not pertain to 'evidence' for other people, more importantly logically you cannot demonstrate a method of logical conclusion of how you came to know that what happened was due to a supernatural being.

You simply conclude that it does using circular logic, which removes your ability to know what is true.

Do you even see our text when we point this out? Are you even capable of reading it? Do you not know what I mean by circular fallacy? Do you know what logic is?  Is your english poor?

Quote
But I am not talking about religion.  I am talking about Christianity, a personal relationship with God.

Religion=Christianity, unless you provide a reason to seperate the two.

Quote
When you were a Christian, did you have a personal relationship with God.

You have to explain further. How?

Quote
Did he reveal himself to you.

You have to explain further. How?

Quote
If no, I would venture to say that maybe you were religious, but not a Christian.

There is no special exemption to assign to being religious, christianity is a religion.  If you claim to be a christian then you are subscribing to a religious belief.  You are part of a religion.  You are religious.

If not then describe a personal exception, do simply make a baseless unsupported assertion.

Quote
  Did you believe that Jesus was the son God and that he was raised from the dead and is seated at God's right hand.

Yep

Quote
  If you answered yes to those questions, then I would be interested in exploring more of the topic with you.  Otherwise, I would say you were in fact not a Christian.  (not judging, just stating fact)

That is not the definition of fact.  Since the only thing you know about me is that I claimed to be a christian and to believe in christianity, then you have to accept that as fact.

You cannot conclude that I wasn't a christian, based on something you never explain and you're making ANOTHER logical fallacy by making a case for special pleading.

Quote
What way can I validate my "claim" as you put it?

I'm not sure, you don't cite any evidence that would actually allow you to reach your conclusion.  You dont even attempt to explain your 'evidence', nor even explain how it can be evidence of what you're claiming.

Its not my fault that your claim lacks validation.  Thats your fault.

Quote
I have told you that you were evidence,

You've never explained how its evidence, you've never explained how it correlates with your conclusions.  You know, those hundreds of questions you've been ignoring.  Its not like you can't see them, they've been asked of you countless times.  It only begs the question of why you refuse to answer them.

Which leads us to the obvious; you are dishonest, arrogant, and potentially delusional.

Quote
the Bible is evidence,

You've never explained how its evidence, you've never explained how it correlates with your conclusions.  You know, those hundreds of questions you've been ignoring.  Its not like you can't see them, they've been asked of you countless times.  It only begs the question of why you refuse to answer them.

Which leads us to the obvious; you are dishonest, arrogant, and potentially delusional.

Quote
and now I have shared my personal testimony with you.  What else do you need?  Tell me and I will do it.

I need evidence that actually fits the definition of 'evidence' for the claim being made.

I need 'proof' that actually fits the definition of 'proof' for hte claim being made.

I need 'logic' to explain how evidence/proof help you come to the conclusion being made.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on April 01, 2009, 03:05:47 PM
As I have said before the best evidence is you.  Who created you? Who created them?

To the first question: my parents. To the second: their parents. But to the underlying question, what makes you think that there has to be a nice, neat, simple answer? Simplistic answers are for simple people. Are you simple?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 09:59:31 PM
So calling me names proves something?  Let me ask you something.  How do you know it's not true? Prove there is no God.

I do not know what a god is, do not know where it is, do not know if its even there, and dont even know how to define it, and all I can say is I don't believe in one because I have no reason too.


Passage John 8:32:
32 And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 10:25:22 PM

Nothing you described logically allows someone to personally claim it as 'absolute' truth.  As I've pointed out and others have pointed out countless times, the reason we don't believe it is because there is something wrong with the logic behind the claim.  Personal experiences do not pertain to 'evidence' for other people, more importantly logically you cannot demonstrate a method of logical conclusion of how you came to know that what happened was due to a supernatural being.


You have to explain further. How?

Quote
Did he reveal himself to you.

You have to explain further. How?

Quote
If no, I would venture to say that maybe you were religious, but not a Christian.

If not then describe a personal exception, do simply make a baseless unsupported assertion.

Quote
  Did you believe that Jesus was the son God and that he was raised from the dead and is seated at God's right hand.

Yep

That is not the definition of fact.  Since the only thing you know about me is that I claimed to be a christian and to believe in christianity, then you have to accept that as fact.

You cannot conclude that I wasn't a christian, based on something you never explain and you're making ANOTHER logical fallacy by making a case for special pleading.

I'm not sure, you don't cite any evidence that would actually allow you to reach your conclusion.  You dont even attempt to explain your 'evidence', nor even explain how it can be evidence of what you're claiming.

Its not my fault that your claim lacks validation.  Thats your fault.

The reason you can't except the evidence is that Christianity is that it requires faith.  You need faith more than "evidence"

 The Lord revealed to me why you keep asking for evidence, even though I give it. O ye of little faith. 

Passage James 2:18:

   18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Passage 2 Corinthians 13:5:

   5 Examine yourselves to see if your faith is genuine. Test yourselves. Surely you know that Jesus Christ is among you[a]; if not, you have failed the test of genuine faith.

Passage Hebrews 11:1:
   1 Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see.

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Astreja on April 01, 2009, 10:39:04 PM
The Bible has all the evidence needed.

Evidence?  I don't think so. The Bible is simply too absurd to take seriously.  Snakes and asses and shrubbery don't talk, and people do not come back from the dead.

I will say this again:  You cannot use something to prove itself.  You cannot use the Bible to prove the Bible.  If that sort of pseudo-logic actually worked, one could prove anything at all just by reading a line out of a book.  You must have a second, disinterested source to support your claims.  Emphasis on 'disinterested'... Not someone with a bias towards what you're trying to prove.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 01, 2009, 11:31:58 PM
I will repeat again.  I think it may have gotten lost.  So here it is again.

The reason you can't except the evidence is that Christianity is that it requires faith.  You need faith more than "evidence"

 The Lord revealed to me why you keep asking for evidence, even though I give it. O ye of little faith.

Passage James 2:18:

   18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Passage 2 Corinthians 13:5:

   5 Examine yourselves to see if your faith is genuine. Test yourselves. Surely you know that Jesus Christ is among you[a]; if not, you have failed the test of genuine faith.

Passage Hebrews 11:1:
   1 Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: none on April 01, 2009, 11:34:39 PM
just imagine there is a god and blam there is a god, how convenient.
just imagine there is a unicorn and blam there is a unicorn. how convenient.
just imagine....
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 12:08:22 AM

Psalm 14
Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their actions are evil;
not one of them does good!
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: none on April 02, 2009, 12:10:58 AM
Truth, stick and stones...
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Astreja on April 02, 2009, 12:22:48 AM
Psalm 14
Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their actions are evil;
not one of them does good!

You do realize, Truth, that this is slander?

And do you also realize that, with one good action, any atheist, anywhere, can falsify the Bible?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 02, 2009, 12:25:37 AM
Psalm 14
Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their actions are evil;
not one of them does good!

You do realize, Truth, that this is slander?

And do you also realize that, with one good action, any atheist, anywhere, can falsify the Bible?

My donation to the Animal Protection Society just cleared my bank account today.  And last weekend I donated a batch of housewares to Goodwill.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Astreja on April 02, 2009, 12:27:59 AM
My donation to the Animal Protection Society just cleared my bank account today.  And last weekend I donated a batch of housewares to Goodwill.

Check, and mate.  ;D
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 12:29:02 AM
Psalm 14
Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their actions are evil;
not one of them does good!

You do realize, Truth, that this is slander?

And do you also realize that, with one good action, any atheist, anywhere, can falsify the Bible?

How is that?  Usually they take the Bible out of context.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Astreja on April 02, 2009, 12:37:38 AM
How is that?  Usually they take the Bible out of context.

What context?  Agamemnon's donation to the Animal Protection Society, a good action performed by an atheist, is incontrovertible evidence that the quotation from Psalm 14 is false.  By extension, the Bible can not be considered 100% truth.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 02, 2009, 12:47:11 AM
That's right, Astreja.  And we just happen to be discussing all the errors in the bible over here:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5135.msg120682#msg120682 (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5135.msg120682#msg120682)

Tbright has admitted that the bible is full of "copyist errors" and translation problems, but I want to know why his omnipotent God was unable to preserve the perfection that the bible supposedly was prior to the translations and rewrites.  He is omnipotent, after all, so it seems like an easy thing for a God, but I guess not.  It's a good debate, you ought to check it out.  :D
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 01:14:00 AM
The answer to your question is simple.  God inspired the Scriptures.  Men translated and copied them.  Men are not perfect.  Here is a statement from Bible.com to substantiate what I am saying.

"The majority of scholars agree, however, that the mis-copied words do not involve major Bible doctrines. The biggest area of confusion, which involves history, not doctrines, seems to be in the use of numbers. For example, did the Philistines send 3,000 war chariots to one battle or 30,000?

No other book has been so scrutinized, sifted for error, criticized, and even vilified and attacked on such a massive scale as the Bible. Yet, it is still read and loved by millions."

I underlined do not involved major Bible doctrines, because I think it important not to get bogged down in minutia Look at the big picture.  Try it.  You can do it. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 01:15:25 AM
How is that?  Usually they take the Bible out of context.

What context?  Agamemnon's donation to the Animal Protection Society, a good action performed by an atheist, is incontrovertible evidence that the quotation from Psalm 14 is false.  By extension, the Bible can not be considered 100% truth.

Ok, say it's 99% truth.  Do you believe now?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on April 02, 2009, 01:22:28 AM
Make that 98%, I volunteered at a shelter last weekend feeding homeless and what have you, and 97%: my sister went too. Make that about 85%, most of the people there were atheists or agnostics. Oh boy did I mention this was a Sunday morning... most of the "Christians" were busy comparing outfits and picking their noses at this time. Your stats are looking really grim at this point.

I help others because there are a lot of people in need of help. I don't do it so I can get a VIP pass to heaven.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 02, 2009, 01:33:12 AM
The answer to your question is simple.  God inspired the Scriptures.  Men translated and copied them.  Men are not perfect.  Here is a statement from Bible.com to substantiate what I am saying.

No, I'm afraid it isn't that simple.  Your bible is the "less-than-perfect" word of God-- a corruption of the original.  You should go check out my thread.  I'm asking questions that are important, but I don't want to divert this thread too much.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 01:37:24 AM
It is good that you were helping.  But good works, alone, will not get you into heaven.  

“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

God's Law is Lord the Lord God with all your heart, with all your soul.  
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 02, 2009, 02:11:00 AM
It is good that you were helping.  But good works, alone, will not get you into heaven.  

Who gives a sh!t about heaven?  We're proving that your bible is flawed, here.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 02:38:44 AM
Here is a quote from Bible.com.  This is information from people that have researched the matter (scholars if you will)

"Criticism of the Bible Has Been Proven Wrong

Some critics of the Bible say it is simply a collection of man's writings. Others believe it is a great "literary masterpiece," but not the "Word of God." Those are the people who do not believe there is a God. Others believe God's Word is in the Bible but that the entire Bible is not God's Word. However, scholars have proven that the Bible is accurate in its depiction of historical events that have been documented elsewhere, so the rest of it should be considered true as well, in spite of the critics. On the other hand, even if none of the Bible had any secular evidence, we still should believe it rather than the world's knowledge, because it is the Word of God and is reliable.

The majority of scholars agree, however, that the mis-copied words do not involve major Bible doctrines. The biggest area of confusion, which involves history, not doctrines, seems to be in the use of numbers. For example, did the Philistines send 3,000 war chariots to one battle or 30,000?

No other book has been so scrutinized, sifted for error, criticized, and even vilified and attacked on such a massive scale as the Bible. Yet, it is still read and loved by millions."

Before you say it...How do you know it's not true. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on April 02, 2009, 06:45:32 AM
People!

(http://kromeblog.kromeboy.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/dont-feed-troll.jpg)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on April 02, 2009, 07:09:15 AM
People!

(http://kromeblog.kromeboy.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/dont-feed-troll.jpg)

Seconded;

(http://enigma.dune.net/~eric/Do-not-feed-the-troll.PNG)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Chronos on April 02, 2009, 07:16:20 AM
The thread is already at the bottom, so to speak.

As I have said before the musulim's god is dead in the ground. 

This is not correct. I expect you are inferring that since Muslims consider that Jesus was a prophet of god, and Jesus subsequently died, that you are thinking that Muslims are worshiping a dead god. This is a convoluted error in your knowledge. In all three abrahamic faiths, god is god and has always been and will always be. Jesus was a Jew. Some Jews found him to be the son of god, others did not. The fact that some Jews viewed him as a heretic and Muslims viewed him as a prophet, whether dead in the ground or ascended to heaven, the god mentioned in all three faiths did not die. He would be the same god, regardless.

If, by your inference, you believe that Jesus was god and died (but was later resurrected), then you are saying that your god died. However, how did a dead god resurrect himself? The Christian Trinity identifies Jesus as the son of god and not fully god unto himself but part of the faith's triumvirate to posterity.

This is, however, a convoluted thought process filled with errors. As stated before, this is circular logic, which means that it is not the least bit logical at all. To make matters worse, if Christians value the Ten Commandments, then the Christian faith is in violation of one of its own commandments. If you are to "take no other gods before me", then you are required to reject Jesus as god. This means that you cannot assert that Muslims worship a god that is dead in the grave.

I fear that you won't be able to understand this.


The Bible is the true word of God because that what we collectively (in the Christian community) define it to mean.

Wouldn't the bible be the true word of your god because of your god's proclamation rather than what the collective humans decide? This indicates acknowledgement from you that your community (the human collective of Christians) selectively chooses which words (books) form part of the bible.

What if you are wrong?

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agent_007 on April 02, 2009, 07:16:56 AM
I don't know.  Quote something from the Quran and I will match it up against the truth.  I would venture to say that there are some truths in the Quran.  I don't know though since I have never seen one.

Because you have never seen a Qu'ran, does that mean that Islam and Muslims' interpretation of god is invalid? If so, how? If not, why not?


Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Deus ex Machina on April 02, 2009, 07:41:45 AM
Here is a quote from Bible.com.  This is information from people that have researched the matter (scholars if you will)

Scholars? <snort> It doesn't take any scholarship to come up with bullshit apologia.

Quote
"Criticism of the Bible Has Been Proven Wrong

Some critics of the Bible say it is simply a collection of man's writings. Others believe it is a great "literary masterpiece," but not the "Word of God." Those are the people who do not believe there is a God. Others believe God's Word is in the Bible but that the entire Bible is not God's Word. However, scholars have proven that the Bible is accurate in its depiction of historical events that have been documented elsewhere, so the rest of it should be considered true as well, in spite of the critics. On the other hand, even if none of the Bible had any secular evidence, we still should believe it rather than the world's knowledge, because it is the Word of God and is reliable.

The majority of scholars agree, however, that the mis-copied words do not involve major Bible doctrines. The biggest area of confusion, which involves history, not doctrines, seems to be in the use of numbers. For example, did the Philistines send 3,000 war chariots to one battle or 30,000?

No other book has been so scrutinized, sifted for error, criticized, and even vilified and attacked on such a massive scale as the Bible. Yet, it is still read and loved by millions."

Before you say it...How do you know it's not true.

The Bible makes an assortment of extremely tall claims, so skepticism and doubt is the default position here. The correct question should be: how do you know it's true? You've as much as admitted that you can't establish it: "you just need faith!" is the eternal cry. Sorry, matey, but "faith" is bullshit. It's just an excuse for failing to pony up a shred of reliable evidence to support the audacious nonsense you're spouting. I wouldn't buy a used video game on "faith". Never mind surrender my intellectual integrity.

So firstly, where's this "proof" that scholars claim to have?

And secondly, just because some parts of some books in a compilation may be based on actual events does not make the entire compilation true in entirety. That would be like saying that Hercules Poirot and Sherlock Holmes were real people on the grounds that the parts of the books that depicted actual historical events correlated well with historians' understanding of those same events. Clearly, therefore, the claim made here by bible.com that "the rest of it should be considered true as well, in spite of the critics" is so utterly disingenuous that an eight-year-old ought to be able to see through it.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Dkit on April 02, 2009, 08:01:54 AM
So calling me names proves something?  Let me ask you something.  How do you know it's not true? Prove there is no God.

I do not know what a god is, do not know where it is, do not know if its even there, and dont even know how to define it, and all I can say is I don't believe in one because I have no reason too.


Passage John 8:32:
32 And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
My irony meter has just overloaded.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 02, 2009, 08:22:54 AM
People!

(http://kromeblog.kromeboy.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/dont-feed-troll.jpg)

Seconded;

(http://enigma.dune.net/~eric/Do-not-feed-the-troll.PNG)

Thirded, sorry I don't have a nifty troll pic, though.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 10:26:30 AM
Passage Isaiah 54:17:

No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 10:31:55 AM
I don't know.  Quote something from the Quran and I will match it up against the truth.  I would venture to say that there are some truths in the Quran.  I don't know though since I have never seen one.

Because you have never seen a Qu'ran, does that mean that Islam and Muslims' interpretation of god is invalid? If so, how? If not, why not?




No basically what invalidates their god to me is that my God said though shall have no other gods before me.  I believe the Muslims have a God named allah.  I am happy to believe in their religion if they teach confess with your mouth that you are a sinner, accept that Jesus is the son of God, and that he died and then arose three days later and is now seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession on our behalf.   If their qu'ran has this, I would gladly accept it.




Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 02, 2009, 10:32:45 AM
Passage Isaiah 54:17:

No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

Preaching.  Can we ban this idiot already?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: wolffie22 on April 02, 2009, 10:44:17 AM
Quote: Usually when one gets a limb amputated, it is because that limb has become life threatening.  So the miracle is to remove it and the body becomes healed or is no longer threatened with death from a diseased limb...

God could have said he would grow these limbs back, but he said to cut them off.  In the natural, he wants us to cut off sin that is in our lives.  Amputees are his angels that remind us that we need to cut off sin in our lives.... 

That is why he won’t “heal” (I presume you mean grow the limb back).  I hope this explains it to you.  Bottom line is God wants us to be cut off from sin....

What about people born without a limb, as a friend of mine was?????



[/quote]
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Dkit on April 02, 2009, 10:52:11 AM

No basically what invalidates their god to me is that my God said though shall have no other gods before me.  I believe the Muslims have a God named allah.  I am happy to believe in their religion if they teach confess with your mouth that you are a sinner, accept that Jesus is the son of God, and that he died and then arose three days later and is now seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession on our behalf.    If their qu'ran has this, I would gladly accept it.

Um, that would morph Islam into Christianity.  So, you are saying, if other religions did things your way, you would accept their religion?  For the umteenth time, you have no basis to claim yours is a superior religion to that of Islam.  Chrisitans have exactly the same amount of evidence to support their position as Islam.  A dusty old book making claims about reality which cannot be shown to be "the truth".  Get over yourself.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 11:08:35 AM



What about people born without a limb, as a friend of mine was?????



[/quote]

The answer is the same:    Bottom line is God wants us to be cut off from sin....
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 11:11:44 AM
Passage Isaiah 54:17:

No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

Preaching.  Can we ban this idiot already?

Why do you only want people on here that agree with your view point.  Are you afraid to hear the truth.  Fear not.  God wants to do you no harm.  He loves you.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 02, 2009, 11:24:14 AM
People!

(http://kromeblog.kromeboy.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/dont-feed-troll.jpg)

Bump.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Dkit on April 02, 2009, 11:33:58 AM
Passage Isaiah 54:17:

No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

Preaching.  Can we ban this idiot already?

Why do you only want people on here that agree with your view point.  Are you afraid to hear the truth.  Fear not.  God wants to do you no harm.  He loves you.
We have other Christians here on the forum.  Some of them are able to hold up their end of a discussion.  You cannot.  You are incapable of addressing serious issues without the use of your babble, I mean bible.  Many of us have asked serious questions or made rebuttals to your claims, yet you continue to be oblivious to your own ignorance.
Quote from: truth
God wants to do you no harm.

If this were true, God would show himself to all as to avoid sending anyone to hell*.  He does not.  He remains hidden allowing those who die to go to hell.  So, your statement is a lie.
*that is if you believe such things.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 11:35:56 AM
Passage Isaiah 54:17:

No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

You afraid of what God has to say?  Fear not.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Dkit on April 02, 2009, 11:41:35 AM
<removed preaching>

You afraid of what God has to say?  Fear not.
No, I'm not afraid.  Tell God to bring his holy a** down here and stop sending people who can't comprehend what it means to engage in a meaningful discussion.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 11:42:22 AM

God wants to do you no harm.

If this were true, God would show himself to all as to avoid sending anyone to hell*.  He does not.  He remains hidden allowing those who die to go to hell.  So, your statement is a lie.
*that is if you believe such things.

Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 11:43:39 AM
God wishes above all things that you prosper and be in health as your soul prospers. 
In fact the exact Passage 3 John 1:2:

   2Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
You and I are his beloved. 

The reason God does not "show himself" as you put it is that he gave us free will and we have to choose either life of death.  It all started with Adam and Eve in the garden.  They had everything, they saw and talked to God, yet they still sinned.  So God wants us to make the choice, so we can appreciate it. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 11:46:06 AM
<removed preaching>

You afraid of what God has to say?  Fear not.
No, I'm not afraid.  Tell God to bring his holy a** down here and stop sending people who can't comprehend what it means to engage in a meaningful discussion.

Who made you judge and jury.  My conversations are very meaningful.  The sower sows the word.  We all reap what we sow.  I think that the words used on this site will reap much fruit.

Can you understand what I am saying?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Dkit on April 02, 2009, 11:59:58 AM
<removed preaching>

You afraid of what God has to say?  Fear not.
No, I'm not afraid.  Tell God to bring his holy a** down here and stop sending people who can't comprehend what it means to engage in a meaningful discussion.

Who made you judge and jury.  My conversations are very meaningful.  The sower sows the word.  We all reap what we sow.  I think that the words used on this site will reap much fruit.

Can you understand what I am saying?
As a participant in your threads, I have a right to determine by your posts how meaningful the discussions are.  You ignore much of what is posted and choose to focus on the posts which you find insulting or inflammatory. 

You may be a fantastic person in real life, but your ability to address our points is lacking. 

Please stop with the veiled threats.

The bolded parts serve no purpose other than to make yourself feel better about being "persecuted" on this heathen forum on behalf of your God.  Hoping one day we'll get ours and you'll get yours.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 12:00:46 PM
Passage Isaiah 54:17:

No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

Preaching.  Can we ban this idiot already?

You cannot ban God.  You can ban me if you want, but nothing can stand up against God.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Fridge on April 02, 2009, 12:01:13 PM
People!

(http://kromeblog.kromeboy.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/dont-feed-troll.jpg)

Bump.

(http://www.trollhunters.org/files/trolls/troll-01.jpg)

bamp
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 12:03:49 PM
<removed preaching>

You afraid of what God has to say?  Fear not.
No, I'm not afraid.  Tell God to bring his holy a** down here and stop sending people who can't comprehend what it means to engage in a meaningful discussion.

Who made you judge and jury.  My conversations are very meaningful.  The sower sows the word.  We all reap what we sow.  I think that the words used on this site will reap much fruit.

Can you understand what I am saying?
As a participant in your threads, I have a right to determine by your posts how meaningful the discussions are.  You ignore much of what is posted and choose to focus on the posts which you find insulting or inflammatory. 

You may be a fantastic person in real life, but your ability to address our points is lacking. 

Please stop with the veiled threats.

The bolded parts serve no purpose other than to make yourself feel better about being "persecuted" on this heathen forum on behalf of your God.  Hoping one day we'll get ours and you'll get yours.

You are wrong.  I wish no one harm on this site.  I wish the same thing God wishes.  I wish above all things that everyone prospers and be in health as their soul prospers. 

I feel that the word of God is doing its work.  It seems to make the devil angry. 
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Truth on April 02, 2009, 12:07:30 PM
People!

Bump.

bamp

Calling me names achieves what?  My response is still the same:

Passage Isaiah 54:17:

No weapon that is formed against me shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against me in judgment God will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Dkit on April 02, 2009, 12:08:17 PM
Quote
I wish the same thing God wishes.
Well, your God plans on throwing unbelievers in a pit of fire.  That's harmful.

Quote
It seems to make the devil angry.  

How do you know this?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Operator_013 on April 03, 2009, 03:48:51 AM
Passage Isaiah 54:17:

No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

Preaching.  Can we ban this idiot already?

It's not even preaching, it's just using a Bible verse in place of the old schoolyard yarn "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me". Doing so repeatedly is taunting, a deliberate attempt to provoke a reaction from other forum members, and in spite of my warning in the other thread to avoid rule violations, these posts violate rule 11 (Trolling) of the Forum Rules.

Truth will receive a 72-hour suspension.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 03, 2009, 07:46:58 AM
I stand corrected, Thirteen.  Thanks for your intervention.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Graybeard on April 19, 2009, 09:10:10 AM
Hello, and thanks for letting me in. I've been spending an idle hour clicking through some of my favorites and revisited here and (amongst others) Landover Baptists to see how the inmates of the latter are coping. Anyway, whast casued me to sign up was that they seem to have seen your site and have replied to the fundamental question at http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?p=316489#post316489. It amused me, it may amuse you.

I realize that the question of regrowing a leg is itself fraught; to save me time in research, is the basic idea that if God did restore a leg, He would do it instantly or just cause it to grow; if the latter, at what sort of a rate? If it's a question of growing, at the normal rate it could be inconvenient for about 15 or 16 years.  :D I therefore suspect it would have to be instant.

Anyway, hello to everyone again, I'm off to look round some more of the site.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Hermes on April 19, 2009, 10:21:21 AM
Hello, and thanks for letting me in. I've been spending an idle hour clicking through some of my favorites and revisited here and (amongst others) Landover Baptists to see how the inmates of the latter are coping. Anyway, whast casued me to sign up was that they seem to have seen your site and have replied to the fundamental question at http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?p=316489#post316489. It amused me, it may amuse you.

I realize that the question of regrowing a leg is itself fraught; to save me time in research, is the basic idea that if God did restore a leg, He would do it instantly or just cause it to grow; if the latter, at what sort of a rate? If it's a question of growing, at the normal rate it could be inconvenient for about 15 or 16 years.  :D I therefore suspect it would have to be instant.

Anyway, hello to everyone again, I'm off to look round some more of the site.

All praise the Godly members at Landover Baptist!  May they confound the wicked and witless, dryly and in character!  I give them 5 Jesuses ... erm ... 5 Jeesi ... erm one Jesus on toast 5x!

(http://filesll.fluxstatic.com/0192C0920192C092000192C09201/TNV/Jpg/B-1218/AR50x50,Crop/633614015400000000) (http://filesll.fluxstatic.com/0192C0920192C092000192C09201/TNV/Jpg/B-1218/AR50x50,Crop/633614015400000000) (http://filesll.fluxstatic.com/0192C0920192C092000192C09201/TNV/Jpg/B-1218/AR50x50,Crop/633614015400000000) (http://filesll.fluxstatic.com/0192C0920192C092000192C09201/TNV/Jpg/B-1218/AR50x50,Crop/633614015400000000) (http://filesll.fluxstatic.com/0192C0920192C092000192C09201/TNV/Jpg/B-1218/AR50x50,Crop/633614015400000000)
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 19, 2009, 09:09:38 PM
Thanks for posting that, Greybeard.  It is interesting to read how the poster lays it all out so solidly.

They start by ridiculing atheists in a particularly childish way, then they proceed to enumerate some of the miracles mentioned in the bible, as if that is proof of anything, then we get a few scriptures, then they claim that you get used to not having the limb you've lost and that there is no longer any pain or discomfort to keep you from appreciating God's works.  Then there's a bit of total nonsense followed by the lame excuse that God can't perform an obvious miracle under any circumstances because it would blow our minds too much.

And I noticed that they actually claim that God isn't jealous, which I believe is directly contradicted by Exodus 20:5.

Of course, the final blow to the evil, wicked atheists is a claim that they have thoroughly debunked WWGHA and that "there can be no further questions."

Wow, now that is impressive.  Ezekiel Bathfire obviously has no idea what he is talking about.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on April 20, 2009, 09:05:57 AM
Wow, now that is impressive.  Ezekiel Bathfire obviously has no idea what he is talking about.

It's parody.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 20, 2009, 04:53:12 PM
Wow, now that is impressive.  Ezekiel Bathfire obviously has no idea what he is talking about.

It's parody.

Oh, jeeze.  A poe.  <facepalm> Wow I fell for that one big time.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: ChristChex on April 23, 2009, 12:58:47 PM
Check this youtube video- Re:hey, atheist you don't know
From philos71. It does a good job at explaining.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Airyaman on April 23, 2009, 01:09:03 PM
Check this youtube video- Re:hey, atheist you don't know
From philos71. It does a good job at explaining.

Hey, the video is invisible, just like your god.
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: subtleinspiration on April 23, 2009, 01:10:08 PM
Check this youtube video- Re:hey, atheist you don't know
From philos71. It does a good job at explaining.

YouTube Link Post FAIL!
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: Agamemnon on April 23, 2009, 02:24:29 PM
OK, I fixed it...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLk5A9JtCnw[/youtube]

Is that it?
Title: Re: The answer to the question why won't God Heal amputees?
Post by: rlyte on May 04, 2010, 07:37:48 PM
May jesus bless you keep exposing the truth!