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Main Discussion Zone => General Religious Discussion => Topic started by: Ron Jeremy on July 03, 2014, 03:05:04 PM

Title: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 03, 2014, 03:05:04 PM
Christians, why do we atheists think your god is imaginary? I think most atheists on here have been believers, or like me, began to take an interest in Christianity in adulthood, read the bible, looked at as much evidence and arguments as we can, and after weighing all that we have learnt, came to the conclusion that the Christian god doesn't exist.

Why is this?
I've heard it's because we 'haven't let Jesus into our hearts'. Please explain precisely what this means and what I should do to make it happen.
Why have I and other atheists looked at the world and concluded that a god wasn't involved? If we missed the evidence; why is that?

Why can't we see your god? And what can we do to make that happen?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 03:11:19 PM
For the sake of expanding the argument,it's not just Atheists who don't believe in their god.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 03, 2014, 03:23:33 PM
Good point.

Christians; why is it that over two thirds of the people on this planet think your god doesn't exist? What can the majority of the population of the world do to find your god?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 03:49:05 PM
Prophecies coming true (like my signature)

Lots of people think God doesn't exist because it's so much easier to just do what you want without being held accountable for your actions. I'm not saying everyone is like this, but a lot of people seem to be "mad at God" for not existing, which is illogical.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 03, 2014, 03:59:07 PM
The question was 'What can we do to find your god?'

Your answer is that we have to make prophesies come true?
How do I do that?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 04:04:55 PM
The question was 'What can we do to find your god?'

Your answer is that we have to make prophesies come true?
How do I do that?

Oh, Lord. Help me, please.

the prophecies help you find God because they prove God is God.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 04:08:30 PM
Skep can you give some examples so i know what you are talking about. is this like nostradamus or predicting weather patterns or sumthin??
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: One Above All on July 03, 2014, 04:11:11 PM
Prophecies coming true (like my signature)

Lots of people think God doesn't exist because it's so much easier to just do what you want without being held accountable for your actions. I'm not saying everyone is like this, but a lot of people seem to be "mad at God" for not existing, which is illogical.

There you have it, folks. skeptic54768 knows what's on the minds of every single person on Earth and why they reject the clearly demonstrable and verifiable existence of his god, even if they've never even heard of him/her/it, like everyone before christianity was made up, and billions since.
EDIT: What number am I thinking of?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 04:11:19 PM
Skep can you give some examples so i know what you are talking about. is this like nostradamus or predicting weather patterns or sumthin??

How can anyone read my signature and NOT see it's true to this day? Christians are the most hated people/religion on the planet. How did jesus know this, especially considering Christianity started out very small in numbers?

A slap in the face couldn't be more obvious.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 04:14:14 PM
Prophecies coming true (like my signature)

Lots of people think God doesn't exist because it's so much easier to just do what you want without being held accountable for your actions. I'm not saying everyone is like this, but a lot of people seem to be "mad at God" for not existing, which is illogical.

There you have it, folks. skeptic54768 knows what's on the minds of every single person on Earth and why they reject the clearly demonstrable and verifiable existence of his god, even if they've never even heard of him/her/it, like everyone before christianity was made up, and billions since.
EDIT: What number am I thinking of?

I clearly said not everyone is like that. But, obviously there are some atheists who do it out of rebellion. Like the people who are "atheist at 20, Christian by 30" people. It was a phase for them.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: One Above All on July 03, 2014, 04:15:52 PM
I clearly said not everyone is like that. But, obviously there are some atheists who do it out of rebellion. Like the people who are "atheist at 20, Christian by 30" people. It was a phase for them.

Like the people who are "christian at 2, atheist at 20" people (sic). It was a phase for them.
I'm sorry, did I just prove you're full of shit? It's so easy I tend not to notice.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 04:18:32 PM
Like the people who are "christian at 2, atheist at 20" people (sic). It was a phase for them.
I'm sorry, did I just prove you're full of shit? It's so easy I tend not to notice.

Nobody is Christian at 2. You have to make a conscious free will decision to believe in Jesus. You can be born into a loving Christian home, but a 2 year old baby is not a Christian. I would say that maybe by 5 you can start making that decision.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: One Above All on July 03, 2014, 04:19:56 PM
Nobody is Christian at 2. You have to make a conscious free will decision to believe in Jesus. You can be born into a loving Christian home, but a 2 year old baby is not a Christian. I would say that maybe by 5 you can start making that decision.

As always, missing the forest for the trees. Replace 2 with 5 if you want. My point remains. Accept, refute, or run away. You'll no doubt do the last one. The middle one is impossible, and I've never seen you do the first one, since it requires that you be intellectually honest for once.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 04:23:07 PM
As always, missing the forest for the trees. Replace 2 with 5 if you want. My point remains. Accept, refute, or run away. You'll no doubt do the last one. The middle one is impossible, and I've never seen you do the first one, since it requires that you be intellectually honest for once.

Have you read the article about Richard Dawkins experience with pedophilia when he was young? He said a teacher put his hand into his shorts when he was younger. And Mr. Dawkins is an atheist today. Could it be that he was "mad at God" for allowing that to happen and he uses atheism as a coping mechanism for wanting nothing to do with God?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 04:23:43 PM
Sorry skep yr sig does not make things obvious to me.  is this why JW's etc are so annoying in order to piss people off so they can point to scripture as in yr sig and viola see they hate us - god said they would = god is true because some xians are annoying and get told ti eff off.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 04:26:13 PM
You would have to ask dawkins himself skep it could also be he is a rational thinker and found no evidence for the existence of god.  maybe you should send him yr sig, that might get him to convert.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 04:26:44 PM
Sorry skep yr sig does not make things obvious to me.  is this why JW's etc are so annoying in order to piss people off so they can point to scripture as in yr sig and viola see they hate us - god said they would = god is true because some xians are annoying and get told ti eff off.

You're missing the big picture. Christianity started out with a membership of 12-20 people. Yet, Jesus said, "you will be hated by ALL." In fact, Christianity didn't eve exist yet at that time because jesus was still alive when He said that. So how did he know that people would be hated for jesus' name when the religion didn't even exist yet?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: One Above All on July 03, 2014, 04:27:34 PM
Have you read the article about Richard Dawkins experience with pedophilia when he was young? He said a teacher put his hand into his shorts when he was younger. And Mr. Dawkins is an atheist today. Could it be that he was "mad at God" for allowing that to happen and he uses atheism as a coping mechanism for wanting nothing to do with God?

Have you read testimonies from "born again" chistians' experiences with hardship when they were losing their faith? They said bad stuff happened to them when they were losing their faith. And they're "born again" today. Could it be that they rationalized their bad experiences as being punishment from their god as a coping mechanism for not wanting to deal with reality?

Anyway, this will be our final exchange for this thread. You have once again shown that there's not a single intellectually honest elementary particle in your entire being. As soon as a new particle enters your body, such as molecules of oxygen, they are corrupted by the rest.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 04:28:18 PM
You would have to ask dawkins himself skep it could also be he is a rational thinker and found no evidence for the existence of god.  maybe you should send him yr sig, that might get him to convert.

But, I always sensed a hatred and nastiness in his articles about God. Once I read that he was molested, it's like the whole puzzle became complete and I said, "Well, that actually explains a lot."

Some people can discuss God rationally, but Dawkins sounds like a madman in his rants.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 04:33:46 PM
Have you read testimonies from "born again" chistians' experiences with hardship when they were losing their faith? They said bad stuff happened to them when they were losing their faith. And they're "born again" today. Could it be that they rationalized their bad experiences as being punishment from their god as a coping mechanism for not wanting to deal with reality?

Anyway, this will be our final exchange for this thread. You have once again shown that there's not a single intellectually honest elementary particle in your entire being. As soon as a new particle enters your body, such as molecules of oxygen, they are corrupted by the rest.

But, then you ARE acknowledging that people can use things as coping mechanisms? If so, then that was my point.

If you're not saying that, then you're attempting to refute an argument using the "Tu Quoque" fallacy which means, "You too!" It's like someone saying to someone "You're stupid" and the other says "Oh yeah! You too!" It's a fallacy. The person just acknowledged that they are both stupid.

The fallacy does nothing to prove the other wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 04:42:29 PM
So how did jesus say this before it was a religion. what year jesus said this and what year did xianity start?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 04:43:25 PM
For the sake of expanding the argument,it's not just Atheists who don't believe in their god.

That's true. But, we Christians believe in the other gods (disguised as demons & fallen angels) of the other cultures. The Book of Enoch explains all of this. A bunch of angels got kicked out of Heaven and they disguised themselves as gods and trick people into worshiping them by answering their prayers. How else would other cultures believe in these gods? Just make them up for no reason?

Then this makes God outduel them (which is in the Bible) to show the people who The One True Eternal Lord is. Some get converted, others don't care and keep worshiping the false idols because they do things for them.

It all makes perfect sense when you look at it like this.

Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 04:45:44 PM
So how did jesus say this before it was a religion. what year jesus said this and what year did xianity start?

Jesus died somewhere around 27-37 A.D. This was the reign of Pilate and Bible says Jesus died during Pilate's reign, which was 27-37. So that's the ballpark of when Jesus said that. But, if we also soak in the fact that Biblical scholars put Saul's conversion at 33 A.D., then we can assume jesus gave up the ghost by 32 or 33 A.D. at the latest. This would be when Christianity started.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: jdawg70 on July 03, 2014, 04:51:20 PM
That's true. But, we Christians believe in the other gods (disguised as demons & fallen angels) of the other cultures. The Book of Enoch explains all of this. A bunch of angels got kicked out of Heaven and they disguised themselves as gods and trick people into worshiping them by answering their prayers. How else would other cultures believe in these gods? Just make them up for no reason?

Then this makes God outduel them (which is in the Bible) to show the people who The One True Eternal Lord is. Some get converted, others don't care and keep worshiping the false idols because they do things for them.

It all makes perfect sense when you look at it like this.

We Christians believe that there is some part of truth in any religion, pagan culture has some good within it.

Do I hear bagpipes?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 04:53:05 PM
It makes perfect sense to people on acid or have brain injuries or a naturally gullible. makes no sense to me at all.


i have always found Dawkins articles well written, well researched conservative and polite mannered. most xian rants (not all) are full of hate, prejudice fear, and bat shit extreme and crazy.


not hard to link such stuff, very embarrasing for humanity not just xians.



Dawkins is a prolific author and an intelligent man can you submit your bio and published works and i wilk stack them up against his.

only fair since you called him degrading things. or are you just an angry scared little internet troll who has acomplished nothing of international acclaim compared to the man you just denigrated.


so put up your bio and accomplishments.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 04:53:34 PM
Do I hear bagpipes?

Not at all. Lukvance is probably right in this case. There can be some good found in it if you look hard enough, but who cares? The overallness is not good.

Just like I'm sure one could find something good in hitler's writings if they looked hard enough, but who cares?

Would it matter if a serial killer said "love the children" and only killed adults?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 04:57:13 PM
It makes perfect sense to people on acid or have brain injuries or a naturally gullible. makes no sense to me at all.


i have always found Dawkins articles well written, well researched conservative and polite mannered. most xian rants (not all) are full of hate, prejudice fear, and bat shit extreme and crazy.


not hard to link such stuff, very embarrasing for humanity not just xians.



Dawkins is a prolific author and an intelligent man can you submit your bio and published works and i wilk stack them up against his.

only fair since you called him degrading things. or are you just an angry scared little internet troll who has acomplished nothing of international acclaim compared to the man you just denigrated.


so put up your bio and accomplishments.

He can be very smug. I watched a youtube video of a man saying "My faith in Christ over the past 20 years has helped me get through life." And Dawkins said, "i think you are delusional." That is a very mean thing to say to someone.

if ONE person said, "atheists are delusional" the liberals would be all over the media screaming "hate speech!"
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 05:01:36 PM
Smug and mean are a downgrading on what you first said what about xians that hate queers and blacks and preach their hate is that smug and mean. what about xians that say atheists are just atheists cos they are mad at god while knowing nothing about the individuals journey.... smug?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 05:04:41 PM
Smug and mean are a downgrading on what you first said what about xians that hate queers and blacks and preach their hate is that smug and mean. what about xians that say atheists are just atheists cos they are mad at god while knowing nothing about the individuals journey.... smug?

Because you guys only go after Christians. There are millions of websites dedicated to pointing out the flaws in Christianity and reasons not to believe. How many website are dedicated to bring down, Hinduism, Paganism, Norse Mythology, Roman Mythology, and Buddhism?

That's why we say that: because atheists seem obsessed with Christianity and seem A-OK with the other religions. And we believe it's because the truth stings some people so they have to try and bring it down in order to convince themselves that it's not true.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: nogodsforme on July 03, 2014, 05:07:48 PM
Okay, so some atheists are mad at god for the bad things that have happened to them. This still kinda begs the question of why god let those bad things happen in the first place. God knows what will lead some people to become atheists, and he still lets it happen.

God knew that letting a guy molest Dawkins would make him into a famous atheist who would inflict his ideas on the unsuspecting world. We humans are weak vessels, right? Doesn't god know that some people cannot handle having bad stuff happen to them? Or does he not care? The buck has to stop with god, not with the kid who got molested and supposedly made sense of the world by becoming an atheist.

Other atheists are atheists so they can ignore god's will, and do bad things with no consequences. I wonder if there are laws of any kind on your planet, skeptic? Where is this atheist paradise full of people doing evil and getting away with it?

China is considered an atheist country.[1] China is also one of the most strict country there is as far as laws are concerned. They impose the death penalty for fairly minor non-violent offenses, like fraud and forgery. Almost like what happens to miscreants in the bible who pick up sticks on the wrong day, or have sex with the wrong gender.

There are countries like Japan and Sweden, where the majority are voluntarily choosing atheism. Laws are not nearly as strict as China. Very peaceful, law abiding places, even if you apply the OT commandments (other than the ones about believing in gods). Low crime overall, very little robbing, raping or murder going on. Amazing, since the people became atheists so they could do all that evil stuff and get away with it.   &)




 1. Although I would not include it since the people are not voluntarily choosing atheism.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 05:11:02 PM
Okay, so some atheists are mad at god for the bad things that have happened to them. This still kinda begs the question of why god let those bad things happen in the first place. God knows what will lead some people to become atheists, and he still lets it happen.

God knew that letting a guy molest Dawkins would make him into a famous atheist who would inflict his ideas on the unsuspecting world. We humans are weak vessels, right? Doesn't god know that some people cannot handle having bad stuff happen to them? Or does he not care? The buck has to stop with god, not with the kid who got molested and supposedly made sense of the world by becoming an atheist.

Other atheists are atheists so they can ignore god's will, and do bad things with no consequences. I wonder if there are laws of any kind on your planet, skeptic? Where is this atheist paradise full of people doing evil and getting away with it?

China is considered an atheist country.[1] China is also one of the most strict country there is as far as laws are concerned. They impose the death penalty for fairly minor non-violent offenses, like fraud and forgery. Almost like what happens to miscreants in the bible who pick up sticks on the wrong day, or have sex with the wrong gender.

There are countries like Japan and Sweden, where the majority are voluntarily choosing atheism. Laws are not nearly as strict as China. Very peaceful, law abiding places, even if you apply the OT commandments (other than the ones about believing in gods). Low crime overall, very little robbing, raping or murder going on. Amazing, since the people became atheists so they could do all that evil stuff and get away with it.   &)
 1. Although I would not include it since the people are not voluntarily choosing atheism.

You're right. China is a good example of setting a bad example by being atheist. They kill your kid if you try to have more than one. Why? Because they can and don't care. Humans are like slugs to them.

But the other countries are more peaceful but China is an example of atheists doing whatever they want. Suppose they all believed in God. They would stop killing people's kids real quick.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 05:13:25 PM
You truly are a retard or a troll,I can't tell which.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 05:15:00 PM
Skep can you give some examples so i know what you are talking about. is this like nostradamus or predicting weather patterns or sumthin??

How can anyone read my signature and NOT see it's true to this day? Christians are the most hated people/religion on the planet. How did jesus know this, especially considering Christianity started out very small in numbers?

A slap in the face couldn't be more obvious.
And if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 03, 2014, 05:16:39 PM
Prophecies coming true (like my signature)

Lots of people think God doesn't exist because it's so much easier to just do what you want without being held accountable for your actions. I'm not saying everyone is like this, but a lot of people seem to be "mad at God" for not existing, which is illogical.

When Matthew was written, the first Christian had already been hated by Jewish authority and executed. It seems obvious that JC was speaking to his small band of followers. This isn't prophesy, this is simply a story about what the author thought had happened 70 odd years ago.

"...And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

I don't hate you Skep. I've never met you. So either the 'prophesy' is false or......you're not a true Christian for me to hate. Which is it?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 05:17:12 PM
As always, missing the forest for the trees. Replace 2 with 5 if you want. My point remains. Accept, refute, or run away. You'll no doubt do the last one. The middle one is impossible, and I've never seen you do the first one, since it requires that you be intellectually honest for once.

Have you read the article about Richard Dawkins experience with pedophilia when he was young? He said a teacher put his hand into his shorts when he was younger. And Mr. Dawkins is an atheist today. Could it be that he was "mad at God" for allowing that to happen and he uses atheism as a coping mechanism for wanting nothing to do with God?
God allows priests to be controlled by Satan,,,,,but somehow you escaped
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 05:19:29 PM
No silly most of us are from xian countries and it is relavent to our daily business both good and bad. i have actually never met a hindu or even a muslim or..... i have never been accused or judged by one and have never been tild i am going ti hell by one.


my personal problem is with fundamentalism and superstition . my culture just happens ti be full of xians.


so your wrong....again.



your persecution complex is highly developed i see.


you mentioned fallen angels and demons who created the demons and why.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 05:19:50 PM
God allows priests to be controlled by Satan,,,,,but somehow you escaped

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that everyone will believe.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 05:21:51 PM
For the sake of expanding the argument,it's not just Atheists who don't believe in their god.

That's true. But, we Christians believe in the other gods (disguised as demons & fallen angels) of the other cultures. The Book of Enoch explains all of this. A bunch of angels got kicked out of Heaven and they disguised themselves as gods and trick people into worshiping them by answering their prayers. How else would other cultures believe in these gods? Just make them up for no reason?

Then this makes God outduel them (which is in the Bible) to show the people who The One True Eternal Lord is. Some get converted, others don't care and keep worshiping the false idols because they do things for them.

It all makes perfect sense when you look at it like this.
Because it is written down its true,now where can I find harry Potter and his band of merry wizards?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 03, 2014, 05:22:40 PM
Are you able to show us how to find your god Skep? Your 'prophesy' is obviously false, can you show us another way?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 05:22:45 PM
God allows priests to be controlled by Satan,,,,,but somehow you escaped

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that everyone will believe.
You don't believe Skep,you are a TROLL
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 05:24:52 PM
Do I hear bagpipes?

Not at all. Lukvance is probably right in this case. There can be some good found in it if you look hard enough, but who cares? The overallness is not good.

Just like I'm sure one could find something good in hitler's writings if they looked hard enough, but who cares?

Would it matter if a serial killer said "love the children" and only killed adults?
God said KILL EM ALL and on more than one occasion.....TROLL
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 05:29:16 PM
It makes perfect sense to people on acid or have brain injuries or a naturally gullible. makes no sense to me at all.


i have always found Dawkins articles well written, well researched conservative and polite mannered. most xian rants (not all) are full of hate, prejudice fear, and bat shit extreme and crazy.


not hard to link such stuff, very embarrasing for humanity not just xians.



Dawkins is a prolific author and an intelligent man can you submit your bio and published works and i wilk stack them up against his.

only fair since you called him degrading things. or are you just an angry scared little internet troll who has acomplished nothing of international acclaim compared to the man you just denigrated.


so put up your bio and accomplishments.

He can be very smug. I watched a youtube video of a man saying "My faith in Christ over the past 20 years has helped me get through life." And Dawkins said, "i think you are delusional." That is a very mean thing to say to someone.

if ONE person said, "atheists are delusional" the liberals would be all over the media screaming "hate speech!"
One Indian wheres a "Caucasians" T shirt and is accused of being a racist,the shirt has a similar logo to the Cleveland Indians.....so whats your point?

http://www.straight.com/blogra/665506/tribe-called-reds-caucasians-t-shirt-sparks-accusations-racism
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 03, 2014, 05:30:33 PM
Skep, can you name one prophesy that has come true in the Bible? Something specific that can't be misinterpreted? And not something obvious like; "I prophesize that tomorrow it will rain in some part of the world and next month there will be a war being fought.."
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 05:32:32 PM
Smug and mean are a downgrading on what you first said what about xians that hate queers and blacks and preach their hate is that smug and mean. what about xians that say atheists are just atheists cos they are mad at god while knowing nothing about the individuals journey.... smug?

Because you guys only go after Christians. There are millions of websites dedicated to pointing out the flaws in Christianity and reasons not to believe. How many website are dedicated to bring down, Hinduism, Paganism, Norse Mythology, Roman Mythology, and Buddhism?

That's why we say that: because atheists seem obsessed with Christianity and seem A-OK with the other religions. And we believe it's because the truth stings some people so they have to try and bring it down in order to convince themselves that it's not true.
people who hold these faiths have no interest with what I do as long as I bring them no harm,Christians on the other hand......oh never mind you will just claim they are not "really" Christian.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 03, 2014, 05:42:43 PM
Why don't we all write our own holy book of prophesy?!

We can do it along the lines of the Bible! Everyone can make as many predictions as they want about what'll happen in the next year. Then in a year's time I'll collect all the 'prophesies' that came true, edit out out the ones that didn't, and we'll be able to prove that atheists have the power of prophesy!

I'll start;
"Wooooooo....in the next six months an aircraft will crash. It will have red paint on its tail. Woooooooo."

Next.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 05:44:55 PM
Gas prices will rise due to turmoil in the land where Jesus grew up
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 05:46:49 PM
There will be tensions in the middle east. the stockmarket will take a dip.


more people wilk be gay and atheists will meet.


these are the signs.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 03, 2014, 05:52:34 PM
North Korea will threaten 'a merciless annihilation' against the USA / Britain / South Korea / Japan / Burger King*

*Delete as applicable.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 05:52:47 PM
There will be tensions in the middle east. the stockmarket will take a dip.


more people wilk be gay and atheists will meet.


these are the signs.
Dont forget the Storms,earthquakes and the death of many because God hates fags(not my terminology,westbro,Phelps,terminology)
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 03, 2014, 05:56:08 PM
...There shall, in that time, be rumors of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things wi-- with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock. Yea, it is written in the book of Cyril that, in that time, shall the third one...

Monty Python
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 06:01:08 PM
A Black,a Female,or a Mexican President will be the next Anti-Christ......oh wait already happened.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 06:01:37 PM
There will be outbreaks of infectious disease and famine. extreme weather will occur in the northern hemisphere and some will die.


Satan will appear in the form of a prophet and will trick many.


children will be obsessed by the internet.


governments controlled by satan will try and provide affordable health care to all.


these are the signs.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 06:05:10 PM
SEE Obama is the Anti-Christ.....affordable health care for ALL Americans
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 06:05:27 PM
A man shall lieth  with another "manth" daughter...
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 06:14:36 PM
A xian will be so annoying he will be smited on the WWGHA forum.


if this happens it will prove i am god.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 07:31:58 PM
Hopefully, the jokes are out of the way now.

With that said, nobody refuted my point about China: how they just kill your kid if you have more than one. Human life isn't sacred to them. Human life is the same to them as a bucket of water.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 07:35:53 PM
Hopefully, the jokes are out of the way now.

With that said, nobody refuted my point about China: how they just kill your kid if you have more than one. Human life isn't sacred to them. Human life is the same to them as a bucket of water.
Where is your proof to back up this statement?BTW your statement here is the biggest joke of all of em
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 07:45:58 PM
China's one child policy wiki page......one child policy seems full of loopholes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 07:48:25 PM
Most people in US prisons are xian, life means nothing to them.


so all chinese want their second child killed, they want that?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 07:55:58 PM
China's one child policy wiki page......one child policy seems full of loopholes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy

Huh. Well, how bout that? Still, if you don't fall within the rules and try to sneak in an extra kid, they will dispose of it.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 08:00:56 PM
Most people in US prisons are xian, life means nothing to them.


so all chinese want their second child killed, they want that?

They usually become Christians in prison as a result of them repenting of their ways. They are not Christian when they go in.

Some stats are misleading. You have to dig deeper.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 08:15:23 PM
Of course you will provide evidence for your stats.


Was kent hovind a xian before he went to prison?


china has a one child policy god drowns the earth.


god lets about everyone that existed or will exist burn in hell for eternity including most of his angels.


who made demons skep and why?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Emily on July 03, 2014, 08:17:52 PM
They usually become Christians in prison as a result of them repenting of their ways. They are not Christian when they go in.

Some stats are misleading. You have to dig deeper.

Well, yes and no. During intake one of the questions by the CO is religious preference (and actually it's sometimes a question once arrested) and from there the stats begin as to the percentage of christian inmates vs non-christian inmates. The stats don't factor who "repents" while in prison because there is no one to collect the data. An inmate doesn't walk up to the CO and say "Hey, I'm a Christian now. Can I change my answer to my religious preference I made during intake".

However, when an inmate goes from one prison to another the intake process begins all over ago and that inmate may classify themselves as Christian when at once they classified themselves as non-Christian.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 08:21:18 PM
Xians have laid waste to about every other indigenous culture. china would have to kill babies for a thousand years to catch up to xianity.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 08:21:55 PM
China's one child policy wiki page......one child policy seems full of loopholes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy

Huh. Well, how bout that? Still, if you don't fall within the rules and try to sneak in an extra kid, they will dispose of it.
So you admit you did not research before posting?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 08:23:42 PM
Most people in US prisons are xian, life means nothing to them.


so all chinese want their second child killed, they want that?

They usually become Christians in prison as a result of them repenting of their ways. They are not Christian when they go in.

Some stats are misleading. You have to dig deeper.
WAIT HOLD ON HERE,they are only CHRISTIAN if they buy into your theological views,otherwise they are influenced by DEMONS
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 08:24:41 PM
Xians have laid waste to about every other indigenous culture. china would have to kill babies for a thousand years to catch up to xianity.

Woah, boy. Even if that's true, it's a tu quoque logical fallacy.

Saying, "You, too!" does nothing to refute the position. Using this fallacy gives the impression that you are OK with China killing babies.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 08:25:23 PM
Xians have laid waste to about every other indigenous culture. china would have to kill babies for a thousand years to catch up to xianity.
Like the prisoners,,,,,they really were not "Christians",isn't that right Skeptic?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 08:26:07 PM
WAIT HOLD ON HERE,they are only CHRISTIAN if they buy into your theological views,otherwise they are influenced by DEMONS

Not at all. I would classify the Amish as Christian and I am not Amish.

Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 08:27:22 PM
Xians have laid waste to about every other indigenous culture. china would have to kill babies for a thousand years to catch up to xianity.

Woah, boy. Even if that's true, it's a tu quoque logical fallacy.

Saying, "You, too!" does nothing to refute the position. Using this fallacy gives the impression that you are OK with China killing babies.
They only kill the poor babies,money through fines,the poor can't afford results in this barbaric practice
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 08:29:02 PM
They only kill the poor babies,money through fines,the poor can't afford results in this barbaric practice


Oh, I see. Well, why didn't you say so? They only kill the poor babies. That makes it all OK now. What was I thinking?  &)
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 08:29:40 PM
WAIT HOLD ON HERE,they are only CHRISTIAN if they buy into your theological views,otherwise they are influenced by DEMONS

Not at all. I would classify the Amish as Christian and I am not Amish.
WOW one group so that's 39,998 theologies to two. What makes the Amish,like you,Christians?Tell us how they are safe from Demon influence?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 08:30:40 PM
They only kill the poor babies,money through fines,the poor can't afford results in this barbaric practice


Oh, I see. Well, why didn't you say so? They only kill the poor babies. That makes it all OK now. What was I thinking?  &)
The practice would not be carried out if the family can "afford" the fine,and you will notice in my post "BARBARIC PRACTICE"
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 08:31:48 PM
WOW one group so that's 39,998 theologies to two. What makes the Amish,like you,Christians?

That has to be a world record for moving the goalpost so quickly.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 08:33:40 PM
Woa boy, same logical fallacy back at you. why is when you bring it up against atheists it not a fallacy and when i bring it up as a real counter example it is a fallacy...... idiot.


and what do you mean "if" it is true, do you know anything of the real world or are you scared of it and live inside your own fairy tale filled head.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 08:33:56 PM
The practice would not be carried out if the family can "afford" the fine,and you will notice in my post "BARBARIC PRACTICE"

Indeed it is. I wonder why they don't care. That pesky "no God" thing, perhaps?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 08:34:15 PM
WOW one group so that's 39,998 theologies to two. What makes the Amish,like you,Christians?

That has to be a world record for moving the goalpost so quickly.
I have not stated all other Christians that don't buy into your theology as Demon influenced YOU did. You can explain your views further in this thread

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,27025.0.html
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 08:35:35 PM
Woa boy, same logical fallacy back at you. why is when you bring it up against atheists it not a fallacy and when i bring it up as a real counter example it is a fallacy...... idiot.


and what do you mean "if" it is true, do you know anything of the real world or are you scared of it and live inside your own fairy tale filled head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Study the illustration on the right. It illustrates the point. It is quite comical, I must admit.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 08:35:54 PM
The practice would not be carried out if the family can "afford" the fine,and you will notice in my post "BARBARIC PRACTICE"

Indeed it is. I wonder why they don't care. That pesky "no God" thing, perhaps?
You just excuse any Christian who has killed for his God and in the name of his God as not really a Christian. What a FUCKING cop-out
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 08:36:05 PM
No you shifted the goal post.


amish are disgusting puppy farmers. mass producing dogs held in appalling conditions fir profit is a key revenue scheme. sick bassids.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 03, 2014, 08:38:52 PM
How ate two true propositions a fallacy just cos someone said it first. the fallacy is xians claim not to kill, but they ate barbaric mass murderers like their god.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 03, 2014, 08:39:02 PM
WOW one group so that's 39,998 theologies to two. What makes the Amish,like you,Christians?

That has to be a world record for moving the goalpost so quickly.
I have not stated all other Christians that don't buy into your theology as Demon influenced YOU did. You can explain your views further in this thread

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,27025.0.html
Since you are so good at seeing who is Demon influenced and who is not of the 40.000 denominations explain it in the thread above
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 03, 2014, 08:39:40 PM
Well, yes and no. During intake one of the questions by the CO is religious preference (and actually it's sometimes a question once arrested) and from there the stats begin as to the percentage of christian inmates vs non-christian inmates. The stats don't factor who "repents" while in prison because there is no one to collect the data. An inmate doesn't walk up to the CO and say "Hey, I'm a Christian now. Can I change my answer to my religious preference I made during intake".

However, when an inmate goes from one prison to another the intake process begins all over ago and that inmate may classify themselves as Christian when at once they classified themselves as non-Christian.

I see. Well, thank you for that.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 04, 2014, 12:09:48 AM
Still waiting
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 04, 2014, 02:54:10 AM
Hopefully, the jokes are out of the way now.

With that said, nobody refuted my point about China: how they just kill your kid if you have more than one. Human life isn't sacred to them. Human life is the same to them as a bucket of water.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_country

In terms of demographics, India ranks as the country with the largest number of highly religious people in the world, with an estimated 960 million to 1 billion believers. China, although its number is less than a fifth of its total population (~18-19%), ranks second, with an estimated 240-260 million believers, followed by Indonesia (~235 million), the United States (~205 million), Pakistan (~175 million), Brazil (~168 million), Nigeria (~163 million) and Bangladesh (~161 million)

http://www.chinahighlights.com/travelguide/religion.htm

China is a multi-religious country. Taoism, Buddhism, lslamism, Protestantism and Catholicism have all developed quite a following in this country. Freedom of belief is a government policy, and normal religious activities are protected by the constitution.

The least religious countries are Estonia, Denmark and Sweden.

Please show how Estonia's, Sweden's and Denmarks lack of god belief is manifested in treating human life with no more respect than a bucket of water?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 04, 2014, 03:00:10 AM
Skep you really need to do some research before you post, you make yourself look really stupid.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 04, 2014, 03:52:41 AM
Prophecies coming true (like my signature)

Lots of people think God doesn't exist because it's so much easier to just do what you want without being held accountable for your actions. I'm not saying everyone is like this, but a lot of people seem to be "mad at God" for not existing, which is illogical.

When Matthew was written, the first Christian had already been hated by Jewish authority and executed. It seems obvious that JC was speaking to his small band of followers. This isn't prophesy, this is simply a story about what the author thought had happened 70 odd years ago.

"...And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

I don't hate you Skep. I've never met you. So either the 'prophesy' is false or......you're not a true Christian for me to hate. Which is it?

Skep, don't forget to address this issue. And maybe you can let us know what biblical prophesies have come true after the bible was written?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 04, 2014, 04:23:32 AM
Yeah i don't hate skep either two counter examples so far. I will assert nobody here hates skep, could be wrong, so the prophecy is already shaky. in fact might be easier for the haters to register their hate, skep needs you to hold his prophecy together...... haters, anyone?????
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 04, 2014, 04:25:22 AM
Come on guys if you like skep at all say you hate him for prophecy sake...... hello haters, show us the hate........... crickets.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Airyaman on July 04, 2014, 05:53:59 AM
Skep can you give some examples so i know what you are talking about. is this like nostradamus or predicting weather patterns or sumthin??

How can anyone read my signature and NOT see it's true to this day? Christians are the most hated people/religion on the planet. How did jesus know this, especially considering Christianity started out very small in numbers?

A slap in the face couldn't be more obvious.

Predicting someone will be hated is not much of a prediction. Everyone is hated by someone.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Airyaman on July 04, 2014, 05:59:04 AM
Hopefully, the jokes are out of the way now.

With that said, nobody refuted my point about China: how they just kill your kid if you have more than one. Human life isn't sacred to them. Human life is the same to them as a bucket of water.

What does China have to do with other people knowing your god?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 04, 2014, 06:45:42 AM
^ nothing but he likes to derail.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 04, 2014, 09:36:28 AM
Anybody else notice when the questions get difficult Skeptic vanishes?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 04, 2014, 11:11:36 AM
Anybody else notice when the questions get difficult Skeptic vanishes?

Not at all. It's called sleeping.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 04, 2014, 11:12:44 AM
Predicting someone will be hated is not much of a prediction. Everyone is hated by someone.

he said hated BY ALL.

Christianity is clearly the most hated religion on the planet. Not bad for an "uneducated Jewish carpenter."
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: kcrady on July 04, 2014, 11:24:26 AM
Lots of people think God doesn't exist because it's so much easier to just do what you want without being held accountable for your actions.

If this is the case, why do you think people believe in fake Christianities?  IOW, the versions of Christianity that are different enough from your own to qualify as being run by demons?  Such people would still believe that they'll be held accountable to Yahweh, even if they differ from you on something like speaking in tongues or whatever.

Also: why do you think people would believe in religions that are more strict than yours?  For example, Islam?  In Christianities (or at least, most versions of Christianity) you get a complete "Get Out of Hell Free" card by "accepting Jesus as your lord and savior," but in Islam you have to rigorously abide by the Five Pillars, and you don't get the kind of go-to-Heaven guarantee that most Christianities offer.  IOW, the level of "accountability" in Islam (if I understand it correctly) is rather more harsh than what you get in Christianities.  So why would anybody be a Muslim and deal with all those strict rules instead of worshiping Satan for the orgies?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 04, 2014, 11:51:05 AM
Predicting someone will be hated is not much of a prediction. Everyone is hated by someone.

he said hated BY ALL.

Christianity is clearly the most hated religion on the planet. Not bad for an "uneducated Jewish carpenter."

Please, demonstrate this. Because it is not 'clear' to me at all. Show how this is so.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 04, 2014, 12:13:42 PM
Furthermore Skep, your prophesy has been shown as false. I think the problem is that you haven't actually read Matthew 10:22. Let's take a look shall we?;

Matthew 10:22

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved
.

Are you even known to all the men of the planet, all 3.5 billion of them, let alone hated by all? It has already been demonstrated that neither I nor eh! hate you, so already your prophesy has been shown to be false.

Now, the original question; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist? There's one answer already; at least one prophesy in the bible is demonstrably false.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 04, 2014, 01:52:09 PM
Predicting someone will be hated is not much of a prediction. Everyone is hated by someone.

he said hated BY ALL.

Christianity is clearly the most hated religion on the planet. Not bad for an "uneducated Jewish carpenter."

Please, demonstrate this. Because it is not 'clear' to me at all. Show how this is so.
that and how can a man/god possibly be uneducated,more useless projection from a liar for his god
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Emily on July 04, 2014, 02:21:03 PM
Predicting someone will be hated is not much of a prediction. Everyone is hated by someone.

he said hated BY ALL.

Christianity is clearly the most hated religion on the planet. Not bad for an "uneducated Jewish carpenter."

What did Jesus mean by 'hated'? Kind of a silly question but in this context it's kind of vague. I have heard Christians  claim that a disagreement between Christians and non-Christians is a form of hatred. Or is it a full out, complete disdain for that person only because he or she believes in the Christian god?

The first case - the disagreement - is not a form a hatred. It's a form of disagreement and that's it. I doubt that anyone here hates you, Skep, just because you're a Christian. Hatred and disagreement are not synonymous with each other, which is one reason that prophecy fails.

I know a lot of Christians. I have morning coffee with some of them. I disagree with their religious preference, but that's as far as my 'hatred' for them goes, and to say that I hate them completely and with full disdain is completely stupid.

So is there really a "hatred by all", or is there just a lot of exaggeration going on with that phrase?

The whole wording just sounds off to me.

And, even if Christianity is the "most hatred religion" (which I doubt, BTW) do you really think that all (that magic word all) non-Christians have a hatred for Christians?

So what criteria must be met for a disagreement to be considered a form of hatred?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Airyaman on July 04, 2014, 10:05:28 PM
Predicting someone will be hated is not much of a prediction. Everyone is hated by someone.

he said hated BY ALL.

Christianity is clearly the most hated religion on the planet. Not bad for an "uneducated Jewish carpenter."

Hated by ALL? So Christians are hated by one another and God as well? That would cover a good bit of ALL.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 04, 2014, 10:24:03 PM
I suggest a poll, how many people here hate god, jesus, religion, skep.


Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: kcrady on July 04, 2014, 11:45:56 PM
How can anyone read my signature and NOT see it's true to this day? Christians are the most hated people/religion on the planet. How did jesus know this, especially considering Christianity started out very small in numbers?

A slap in the face couldn't be more obvious.

Quote
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

That's not a prophecy.  At the time those words were written, Christianity was a tiny, marginal, persecuted sect.  "Behold, Americans will watch television, and drive cars."  Yay!  I'm a prophet!  Right?

Now let's look at some of the things that came to pass in the future, which Matthew's gospel does not predict (which the "prophecy" you cite would not lead anyone to expect):


Bonus round:

Not related to your "prophecy" specifically, but kindof a big thing to miss, don't you think?  "Matthew" could have at least mentioned something about the Apollo 8 astronauts reading from the Bible as they orbited the Moon, right?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 05, 2014, 12:52:23 AM
How can anyone read my signature and NOT see it's true to this day? Christians are the most hated people/religion on the planet. How did jesus know this, especially considering Christianity started out very small in numbers?

A slap in the face couldn't be more obvious.

Quote
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

That's not a prophecy.  At the time those words were written, Christianity was a tiny, marginal, persecuted sect.  "Behold, Americans will watch television, and drive cars."  Yay!  I'm a prophet!  Right?

Now let's look at some of the things that came to pass in the future, which Matthew's gospel does not predict (which the "prophecy" you cite would not lead anyone to expect):

  • Christianity would exist as a major global religion, 2000 years later.
  • The most powerful nation in the world of that future age would be labeled a "Christin nation."
  • That nation would stamp "In God We Trust" on its money.
  • "The Son of Man has no place to lay his head," but less than 1500 years after the Gospels were written, some of the world's most magnificent buildings would be Christian meeting-places.
  • Christians would control their very own global communication networks.

Bonus round:
  • Men would walk on the Moon.

Not related to your "prophecy" specifically, but kindof a big thing to miss, don't you think?  "Matthew" could have at least mentioned something about the Apollo 8 astronauts reading from the Bible as they orbited the Moon, right?

it makes no sense to list those prophecies in the Bible because then everyone would just claim it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For example, suppose Jesus predicted Abraham Lincoln's date of birth. Well, what would a person reading the Bible (in 800 A.D.) think about that prophecy being in the Bible? They would laugh.

Also, it would be self-fulfilling because you could name your kid "Abraham" on that date.

I bet you guys never thought of that.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 05, 2014, 12:56:00 AM
You are an idiot
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 05, 2014, 01:00:42 AM
You are an idiot

An adhominem, I see.

Now, can you please explain why a person reading the Bible in 800 A.D. would care about a prophecy about Abraham Lincoln's date of birth 1,000 years later?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 05, 2014, 01:05:19 AM
You are an idiot

An adhominem, I see.

Now, can you please explain why a person reading the Bible in 800 A.D. would care about a prophecy about Abraham Lincoln's date of birth 1,000 years later?
right after you explain why luk and JST are following demons in my thread
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 05, 2014, 01:24:09 AM
So prophecies were just to convince ancient illiterate people back in the day.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 05, 2014, 01:28:33 AM
So prophecies were just to convince ancient illiterate people back in the day.

No, I'm saying that the way the prophecies are written is the best way possible. There is no better way. That's part of being omniscient. You know the best way. None of the "Ways An Atheist Would Write A Prophecy" are any good.

I was hoping you could actually put 2+2 together and come up with this answer on your own without me constantly having to spell out every single minute detail.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: kcrady on July 05, 2014, 01:36:10 AM
it makes no sense to list those prophecies in the Bible because then everyone would just claim it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For example, suppose Jesus predicted Abraham Lincoln's date of birth. Well, what would a person reading the Bible (in 800 A.D.) think about that prophecy being in the Bible? They would laugh.

Also, it would be self-fulfilling because you could name your kid "Abraham" on that date.

I bet you guys never thought of that.

Sure, that's one of the problems with "prophecy" as a proof of deity.  But you don't think that an infinitely intelligent and capable being could come up with a way to solve that problem?  Like, oh, I dunno, produce a prophecy that people can't make self-fulfilling?  Like so: "Behold, in times to come, people will create artifices by which they can look upon the planet Jupiter, and when they do, they shall see upon its face a great red spot.  This spot they shall discover to be a mighty storm, larger than all the Earth, yet it is as nothing in My hand, saith the Lord." 

Now, people might try to "create artifices" to see Jupiter, but the prophecy doesn't tell them how.  No one in that time would know how, or that it would even be possible by mundane means.  So the prophecy would predict that it would be possible for humans to make telescopes, before anyone knew how to make a telescope.  Then, it would predict what they'd see, something humans have no choice about, or ability to affect.

Of course you'll worm your way out of this, saying that Yahweh doesn't actually want to demonstrate his existence via prophecy or some other such dodge.  Well, OK.  In that case, it's invalid to try to point to some vague Biblical passage, and call it a "prophecy," isn't it?

No, I'm saying that the way the prophecies are written is the best way possible. There is no better way. That's part of being omniscient. You know the best way.

You're omniscient?  Wow, impressive!  I guess that must make you God then.  I mean, if you weren't omniscient, you wouldn't know that there's no better way for an omniscient, infinitely capable being to do something than the descriptions some ancient humans wrote in a book.

Edit: To add a paragraph break.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 05, 2014, 01:55:30 AM
Kcrady V skep, its a bit uneven, poor skep.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 05, 2014, 03:16:29 AM

it makes no sense to list those prophecies in the Bible because then everyone would just claim it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For example, suppose Jesus predicted Abraham Lincoln's date of birth. Well, what would a person reading the Bible (in 800 A.D.) think about that prophecy being in the Bible? They would laugh.

Also, it would be self-fulfilling because you could name your kid "Abraham" on that date.

I bet you guys never thought of that.

It makes no sense to list everyone hating Christians as a prophecy in the Bible because then everyone would just claim it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For example, suppose Jesus predicted everyone would hate Christians. Well, what would a person reading the Bible (in 800 A.D.) think about that prophecy being in the Bible? They would laugh.

Also, it would be self-fulfilling because then everyone would just start hating Christians.

I bet you guys never thought of that.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 05, 2014, 03:24:24 AM
It has been shown that Matthew 10:22 is false. At least two people on this forum alone have stated that they do not hate you, therefore as I pointed out before; either Matthew 10:22 is false or you are not a True Christian.

Why all the self-loathing Skep? "Everyone hates me". It's not true and it's not healthy.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Airyaman on July 05, 2014, 06:21:58 AM
If he is hated by ALL, that must mean his indeed the one True ChristianTM.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: xyzzy on July 05, 2014, 06:39:06 AM

it makes no sense to list those prophecies in the Bible because then everyone would just claim it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For example, suppose Jesus predicted Abraham Lincoln's date of birth. Well, what would a person reading the Bible (in 800 A.D.) think about that prophecy being in the Bible? They would laugh.

Also, it would be self-fulfilling because you could name your kid "Abraham" on that date.

I bet you guys never thought of that.

It makes no sense to list everyone hating Christians as a prophecy in the Bible because then everyone would just claim it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For example, suppose Jesus predicted everyone would hate Christians. Well, what would a person reading the Bible (in 800 A.D.) think about that prophecy being in the Bible? They would laugh.

Also, it would be self-fulfilling because then everyone would just start hating Christians.

I bet you guys never thought of that.

It's also a great way to play Heads, I win. Tails, you loose.

If you agree with them, then they can claim that as validation.
The the more you disagree, the more they can say "you hate it that we're right"

 Cults do this, the woo-ey so-called alternative medicine play on the "you hate to admit we're right" line, and all play the victim.

Give someone some claim to some kind of special, inside, information that's counter to what the evidence, or lack of, leads to; add in some version of "the outsiders aren't ready to understand, that's why they are angry" - hence making the claimant feel superior; tell then that people will try to argue against them, even hate them, because the outsiders can't bear to admit they are wrong; and there you are - instant self-fulling prophecy and a nice chain of circular claims that reinforce the delusion whenever it's challenged.

Kinda dumb, but some folks seem to want to believe they have some secret-sauce that only special people, like they are, can understand.

Oh, I'll be traveling for a bit, so if I miss replies, it's nothing personal.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: nogodsforme on July 05, 2014, 05:49:40 PM
There have been supposed prophecies, but none are specific and intelligible enough to be real predictions. There are lots of things that could have been predicted that people could not make happen, but would just have to wait for. We did not find out about germs causing disease, or what the surface of the moon would be like, from any holy text.

No holy text predicted the date of the Krakatoa eruption or the massive 1906 San Francisco earthquake and fire. Could it be that earthquakes and volcanoes are not as common in the Middle East as they are around the Pacific Rim?  Amazing how none of the holy texts from desert cultures have ever predicted any of the great blizzards that have devastated the northern temperate climates...

And anytime someone points out that this or that statement is not really a prophecy, because it is something that people could decide to make happen (like the founding of Israel as a state) believers change the terms of the discussion. Consider the prophecy that all people will hate Christians.[1]

Christianity is currently  the religious faith with the largest number of adherents worldwide (2 billion). This fact is used to show that Christianity has to be true, because that many people would not believe in a lie. Yet according to prophecy that has to be true, Christianity is also, somehow, the least popular, least influential and most hated religion in the world. How can both of these be true?

Well, of course, most of the people who claim to be Christians are not really Christians! They are tricked into following fake versions of Christianity, like Catholicism and Mormonism and Lutheranism. Only my tiny group is practicing real Christianity and all the other religions, including all the fake Christians, actually hate the real Christianity we practice. Even though they don't know it. Ya see. And when, someday, as will very likely happen, Islam overtakes Christianity in numbers, that fact will be used to prove that Christianity is the most hated religion!

When I was a JW kid, we were told that all would hate us because we were following the true god. It was clear that we were, if not hated, at least disliked by many people. People slammed doors in our faces, sicced their dogs on us, etc. Prophecy fulfilled, right?

But it was not because of our beliefs that people were angry with us JW's. Not once did anyone burn down our Kingdom Hall, smash up out car, attack us in our home or ban us from school for being JW.[2] Nobody followed us down the street yelling threats or insults--you know, the kind of thing people do when they really hate you.  People got angry with us only because we constantly annoyed them on weekends by coming to their homes to talk about our beliefs.

It was as if we were seeking out that kind of treatment, so we could pat ourselves on the back. The bible predicted that the people who were righteous would be persecuted. We were persecuted, therefore we were righteous.
 1. Lots of my friends and relatives are Christians. Others are Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs and ex-members of various religions. If I hate any of them, it is not due to the religions they do or do not practice.
 2.  Kids egged our house for not giving out candy for trick or treat. We were not allowed to turn the lights out and pretend to be away. The kids might not even have known we were JW's, just thought we were hateful and stingy.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: natlegend on July 05, 2014, 08:35:13 PM
Hopefully, the jokes are out of the way now.

With that said, nobody refuted my point about China: how they just kill your kid if you have more than one. Human life isn't sacred to them. Human life is the same to them as a bucket of water.

Do you feign ignorance, or do you really actually believe the tripe you spout?

Quote
The term "one-child" a misnomer, as the policy allows many exceptions: for example, rural families may have a second child if the first child is a girl or is disabled and ethnic minorities are exempt. Families in which neither parent has siblings are also allowed to have two children. Foreigners living in China and residents of the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau are also exempt from the policy. In 2007, approximately 35.9% of China's population was subject to the one-child restriction. In November 2013, the Chinese government announced that it would further relax the policy by allowing families to have two children if one of the parents is an only child.

Quote
Sex-selected abortion, abandonment, and infanticide are illegal in China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy

Skeptic, you are a CLASSIC example of a gullible person who believes the first this he is told. No wonder you follow the tripe that is your stupid 'holy' bible.

Edit: quoting
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Foxy Freedom on July 05, 2014, 09:02:36 PM
China is a good example of setting a bad example by being atheist. They kill your kid if you try to have more than one. Why? Because they can and don't care. Humans are like slugs to them.

But the other countries are more peaceful but China is an example of atheists doing whatever they want. Suppose they all believed in God. They would stop killing people's kids real quick.

So why is China becoming the most powerful economy in the world?

You write as though they made up these laws simply for the pleasure of killing. They made the laws because they do care. They care about over-population and poverty and they are dealing with it very successfully.

Suppose they all believed in your god, the same way you do. Remember, you, that person who said it was good for children to die so they could go to heaven.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 05, 2014, 10:02:22 PM
You are an idiot

An adhominem, I see.

Now, can you please explain why a person reading the Bible in 800 A.D. would care about a prophecy about Abraham Lincoln's date of birth 1,000 years later?
whats the passage? Does it say Abe Lincoln will be born on this date in the future or is it vague shit you interpret that way
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 05, 2014, 10:14:46 PM
Actually if the bible had an appendix with what appeared as gibberish for the most part but each generation decoded as something too advanced at time of writing to be done by man like mathematical formulas that only made sense to a specific generation there would be no doubt that the bible was written by something other than man.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: natlegend on July 06, 2014, 12:56:23 AM
And of course when the going gets tough[1] the tough get going. Oh how predictable. Why are you still here Skep? Seriously???
 1. Skeptic is proven WRONG
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 06, 2014, 10:37:52 AM
The question was 'What can we do to find your god?'

Your answer is that we have to make prophesies come true?
How do I do that?

Seeing as how you smited me for that comment, and seeing as how we've shown your 'prophesy' to be nonsense Skep, would you care to reply to the original question or state an unambiguous prophesy from the bible that has come true after the bible was printed?; What can we do to find your god?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 08, 2014, 08:38:42 PM


So why is China becoming the most powerful economy in the world?

You write as though they made up these laws simply for the pleasure of killing. They made the laws because they do care. They care about over-population and poverty and they are dealing with it very successfully.

Suppose they all believed in your god, the same way you do. Remember, you, that person who said it was good for children to die so they could go to heaven.

It's becoming powerful because we are becoming lazier and lazier and getting away from Biblical Principles. China doesn't follow Biblical Principles. Their pollution is going to be so horrible if trends continue, they will all drop dead. In fact, their pollution is getting so bad that experts think it might circle the globe one day. That is awful.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 08, 2014, 09:13:16 PM


So why is China becoming the most powerful economy in the world?

You write as though they made up these laws simply for the pleasure of killing. They made the laws because they do care. They care about over-population and poverty and they are dealing with it very successfully.

Suppose they all believed in your god, the same way you do. Remember, you, that person who said it was good for children to die so they could go to heaven.

It's becoming powerful because we are becoming lazier and lazier and getting away from Biblical Principles. China doesn't follow Biblical Principles. Their pollution is going to be so horrible if trends continue, they will all drop dead. In fact, their pollution is getting so bad that experts think it might circle the globe one day. That is awful.
what principles are we getting away from,back up the statement ,what principles is China ignoring? The good old American economic system is what China is pursuing,profit and power,is this the principle Your Christian nation is abandoning?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 09, 2014, 11:19:30 PM
what principles are we getting away from,back up the statement ,what principles is China ignoring? The good old American economic system is what China is pursuing,profit and power,is this the principle Your Christian nation is abandoning?

Before I answer, do you agree or disagree with capitalism?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: nogodsforme on July 10, 2014, 12:31:49 AM
1) Capitalism is a great economic system: for maximizing profits-- in the short term; for accumulating wealth-- in the short term; for producing high quality and varied consumer products--for those with money to buy them; and for allocating scarce resources efficiently.

2) Capitalism is a terrible economic system: for addressing social inequality; for caring for the environment; for protecting the weak and vulnerable; or for solving any problems that take a very long time to become evident (like slowly deteriorating infrastructure), or whose effects only hurt the weak and vulnerable. There is no money to be made educating poor children, or providing health care to poor elderly folks. Under a pure capitalist model, those things just don't get done.

Unregulated capitalism is what we see in third world countries where a few rich families own all the resources and live in highly guarded compounds to protect them from the vast majority who are impoverished and desperate. Public infrastructure systems (schools, roads, health care, water supply, bridges) are in poor repair, because there is no tax base and the wealthy don't need to use the public infrastructure.[1]

What we find when we look at the world, is that the places with the highest quality of life for most of the population are those countries that have highly regulated capitalism with a strong tax base to rationally address social inequality, environmental issues, and long-term problems. Everyone, rich or poor gets educated; everyone, rich or poor, gets health care.

The jury is still out on China's future, but it is definitely embracing capitalism in a big way. I have taught a few of the first generation of Chinese millionaire kids at my college.
 1. A really blatant example is Brazil in the 1980's. Economic inequality got so bad that thousands of children survived on the street, abandoned by their desperate families. The wealthy few lived in penthouses and took private helicopters from rooftop to rooftop to avoid even having to see the chaos that the cities had become. A group of radical artists painted protest signs on the roofs of the favela tenements so the rich people could not miss seeing them as they flew by.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 10, 2014, 12:34:44 AM
The question was 'What can we do to find your god?'

Your answer is that we have to make prophesies come true?
How do I do that?

Seeing as how you smited me for that comment, and seeing as how we've shown your 'prophesy' to be nonsense Skep, would you care to reply to the original question or state an unambiguous prophesy from the bible that has come true after the bible was printed?; What can we do to find your god?

Before you answer a new question Skep, how about answering an old one?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 10, 2014, 12:42:38 AM
China also appears to have a realist view with regards to climate change, they are the world's biggest investor in wind turbines and other renewable energy technology (Google this for references). The Chinese government have accepted humans are driving climate change.

Many in the bible belt in Texas however feel climate change is God's will;

http://yearsoflivingdangerously.com/story/pray-for-rain/
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 10, 2014, 01:11:13 AM
Before you answer a new question Skep, how about answering an old one?

Here's a quick and easy start:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=list+of+biblical+prophecies+that+have+come+true

Love to discuss them.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 10, 2014, 01:14:21 AM
China also appears to have a realist view with regards to climate change, they are the world's biggest investor in wind turbines and other renewable energy technology (Google this for references). The Chinese government have accepted humans are driving climate change.

Many in the bible belt in Texas however feel climate change is God's will;

http://yearsoflivingdangerously.com/story/pray-for-rain/

If we assume the Earth is billions of years old, and we also assume that humans haven't been around that long, it is quite foolish indeed to say that we are causing climate change. We can cause more damage than billions of years? That sounds very far fetched. I remember when the scare used to be "Global cooling" and the "experts" thought the Earth was gonna become an icebox. Whoops.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 10, 2014, 01:20:56 AM
1) Capitalism is a great economic system: for maximizing profits-- in the short term; for accumulating wealth-- in the short term; for producing high quality and varied consumer products--for those with money to buy them; and for allocating scarce resources efficiently.

2) Capitalism is a terrible economic system: for addressing social inequality; for caring for the environment; for protecting the weak and vulnerable; or for solving any problems that take a very long time to become evident (like slowly deteriorating infrastructure), or whose effects only hurt the weak and vulnerable. There is no money to be made educating poor children, or providing health care to poor elderly folks. Under a pure capitalist model, those things just don't get done.

Unregulated capitalism is what we see in third world countries where a few rich families own all the resources and live in highly guarded compounds to protect them from the vast majority who are impoverished and desperate. Public infrastructure systems (schools, roads, health care, water supply, bridges) are in poor repair, because there is no tax base and the wealthy don't need to use the public infrastructure.[1]

What we find when we look at the world, is that the places with the highest quality of life for most of the population are those countries that have highly regulated capitalism with a strong tax base to rationally address social inequality, environmental issues, and long-term problems. Everyone, rich or poor gets educated; everyone, rich or poor, gets health care.

The jury is still out on China's future, but it is definitely embracing capitalism in a big way. I have taught a few of the first generation of Chinese millionaire kids at my college.
 1. A really blatant example is Brazil in the 1980's. Economic inequality got so bad that thousands of children survived on the street, abandoned by their desperate families. The wealthy few lived in penthouses and took private helicopters from rooftop to rooftop to avoid even having to see the chaos that the cities had become. A group of radical artists painted protest signs on the roofs of the favela tenements so the rich people could not miss seeing them as they flew by.

Well, that answer was certainly very well thought out and in depth.

In response to pint #2, I would say that if people followed Christianity's version of capitalism, then the wealthy would WANT TO use their money to house the elderly. People like Bill Gates can build places to house all the elderly and still be very rich.

The secret lies in WANTING TO. If you have wealthy people who simply don't give a crap about their fellow man, then of course it won't work. But In Jesus' version, it will work just fine.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 10, 2014, 01:22:11 AM
China also appears to have a realist view with regards to climate change, they are the world's biggest investor in wind turbines and other renewable energy technology (Google this for references). The Chinese government have accepted humans are driving climate change.

Many in the bible belt in Texas however feel climate change is God's will;

http://yearsoflivingdangerously.com/story/pray-for-rain/

If we assume the Earth is billions of years old, and we also assume that humans haven't been around that long, it is quite foolish indeed to say that we are causing climate change. We can cause more damage than billions of years? That sounds very far fetched. I remember when the scare used to be "Global cooling" and the "experts" thought the Earth was gonna become an icebox. Whoops.

Remember Skep, bishop Ussher and his 6000 year old Earth has now been dis-proven thanks to directly measured star age. So no need to assume the Earth is billions of years old; it is. Only fools believe in flat Earths and 6000 year old universes these days.

"...assume that humans haven't been around that long, it is quite foolish indeed to say that we are causing climate change." Perhaps you can back that statement up? How long would humans have to be around before we can affect the climate? Please post research into this.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: eh! on July 10, 2014, 01:30:00 AM
A pity jesus's version of jesus didn't work out just fine.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 10, 2014, 01:34:25 AM
Before you answer a new question Skep, how about answering an old one?

Here's a quick and easy start:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=list+of+biblical+prophecies+that+have+come+true

Love to discuss them.

Googled it; none have come true. Perhaps you didn't read my question? - an unambiguous prophesy from the bible that has come true after the bible was printed?

I can write a book now predicting the Second World War and the 2008 US presidential election. But of course I'd have hindsight wouldn't I?! Just like the men that wrote the bible, I could pick and choose stories to align with things that happened. I could pick a 'prophesy' stating that a Messiah would pitch up around a certain time and discard the prophesies that didn't align with what I wanted. This obviously wouldn't prove a messiah pitched up, it would just show how I was desperately trying to prop up my wish that a messiah had pitched up.

So Skep, name one unambiguous prophesy from the bible that has come true after the bible was printed?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: YRM_DM on July 10, 2014, 09:05:29 AM
Prophecies coming true (like my signature)

Lots of people think God doesn't exist because it's so much easier to just do what you want without being held accountable for your actions. I'm not saying everyone is like this, but a lot of people seem to be "mad at God" for not existing, which is illogical.

All religions who encourage the use of force, threats, or coercion to come to their beliefs are not liked by anyone outside of their beliefs.  Do you like Muslims who execute people for leaving the faith?   Do you like Jehovah's Witnesses for pounding on your door and wanting to convert you?   Do you like Catholics who think they are the one true church and anyone who isn't catholic is not Christian?

I personally don't like Christians who are quick to make up every excuse in the world for their imaginary god.

As far as being held accountable...  you're happy to take the work of thousands of humans over a century of scientific advancement and give the credit for their medical discoveries to god right?

The problem with Christians is that you hold people accountable only for the stuff you view is wrong... like holding a homosexual accountable for their lifestyle while wearing a graven image of Jesus on a cross around your neck... both are listed as "wrong and sinful" in the SAME BOOK of the bible.

So you give credit to God for every bit of good work ever done by people... but you give all the blame and accountability for anything done wrong by people to people...

People devastated by horrific events are told "everything happens for a reason" and "trust in god's plan"...

Everything is an excuse to defend god.

And it's not that atheists are angry at god... it's that the world makes perfect sense if god is imaginary... but IF we assume for a second that you were right, the god of the bible is awful... jealous, rage-filled, murderous, fickle, contradictory, promises to answer prayers then has an excuse for answering zero prayers, completely inactive in our lives.

If you WERE right, the god described by X-Tianity is a dictator who cares nothing for individuals at all.   You can say otherwise but no example you can give holds up.

"Well, god created his son and had him killed to please himself and save a select group of people from eternal torture in a place he created run by a guy he created"

"Well, god could kill people instantly and painlessly as he did ananias and sapphire, but instead of doing that during Noah's time, he drowned millions..."


"Well, it was good when God told Moses to have his troops kill all the women and children except young virgins to take as wives... um because... um... well it was a different time and it was good to kill babies back then."

Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 10, 2014, 09:32:50 AM
what principles are we getting away from,back up the statement ,what principles is China ignoring? The good old American economic system is what China is pursuing,profit and power,is this the principle Your Christian nation is abandoning?

Before I answer, do you agree or disagree with capitalism?
what does MY opinion on capitalism matter? I asked you a direct question based on your statement. America is getting away from what principles,China is ignoring what principles?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: screwtape on July 10, 2014, 10:11:12 AM
In response to pint #2, I would say that if people followed Christianity's version of capitalism, then the wealthy would WANT TO use their money to house the elderly. People like Bill Gates can build places to house all the elderly and still be very rich.

The secret lies in WANTING TO. If you have wealthy people who simply don't give a crap about their fellow man, then of course it won't work. But In Jesus' version, it will work just fine.

by that logic, any economic system would work out just fine, no?  People would want to shift their money where ever it is most needed.

And btw, there is no "xianity version of capitalism", even by your own definition.  You are suggesting that capitalism is capitalism is capitalism, and the difference is in the attitude and actions of the people who are hoarding the wealth.  That is not "xian capitalism."  That is just "capitalism."

Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: YouCantHandleTheTruth on July 10, 2014, 01:36:09 PM
Here's my question, getting away a bit from the current conversation - can you really say that Christians are hated by ALL for Jesus's namesake?  Isn't that kind of broad?  I don't think all 4.5 billion or so non-believers in Christ/atheists hate Christians.  They just disagree with them philosophically, but in fact there are many atheists that count Christians amongst their best friends. Hate is a pretty strong word and it seems to show a bit of immaturity on the part of Jesus to say everyone would hate that way.  Maybe Jesus saw the reaction he was getting from people that weren't following him and figured he may well have had serious mental issues, and Jesus extrapolated that hatred out to everyone that would ever live that didn't believe in him.  The statement seems to be exhibiting extreme paranoia.  A lot of Jesus's statements are like this - very extreme with a hard line in the sand.  Very much the "you're either with me or against me" and "us against the world" approaches like we also see in Matthew 10:34.  Everybody hates us that isn't with us.  It just seems like a very unhealthy approach to life.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: screwtape on July 10, 2014, 02:07:17 PM
It's becoming powerful because we are becoming lazier and lazier and getting away from Biblical Principles.

None of this is true.  We are not becoming lazier.  We are working harder than we ever have, in terms of hours.  China is getting power because they are making money, and they are doing it by stealing our jobs through rock-bottom wages.  And this only happened because our politicians (on both sides, sadly) pay homage to corporations and the myth of Free Markets.  NAFTA and and granting permanent favored nation status to china began the shuttering of factories here.

As for biblical principles, I have no idea how getting away from them has anything to do with economics. 

Every conservative of every era has bemoaned the same thing as you.  Every generation thinks the world is going to hell in a handbasket and right away.

China doesn't follow Biblical Principles. Their pollution is going to be so horrible if trends continue, they will all drop dead.

Let's hope they do.  Except the hot chicks. 

Anyway, I did not know environmentalism was a biblical principle.  Last I checked god gave Adam "dominion" over every living thing to do with it what he wanted.

Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: nogodsforme on July 10, 2014, 02:13:07 PM
If we disagree with religious people, it is because we are angry at their god. Hey, we atheists are angry at all gods, hate all religions, and hate all religious people, then, across the board. Not just the Christian varieties. That's a lot of hating to be carrying on.

We atheists don't have time to study in school, get married, find jobs, enjoy hobbies, travel, read novels, watch movies or go out to eat, since we are so busy with the constant hating on so many things. We are all "hatheists", all the time. Just nothing but hate, 24/7.

I imagine someone like Mr. Potter in Bedford Falls, bitter about his handicap, unable to enjoy his money, angry at the world, grumpy and snarling, with no sense of humor or human feeling at all.

That is the religious person's caricature of the atheist. Little do they know that they very likely interact with perfectly friendly atheists on a daily basis who are just as nice as pie.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Foxy Freedom on July 10, 2014, 03:06:59 PM
It's becoming powerful because we are becoming lazier and lazier and getting away from Biblical Principles. China doesn't follow Biblical Principles.

Recently some people have doubted that you are what you claim to be and when you posted a link to a website which no longer worked and had no posts, and said you posted there, I began to think you were not representing your own views. But when I see you struggle with your own logic like this, and with science, I think you could not be faking it. So....

Let's get this straight, China is successful because it does not follow biblical principles. So it is a good idea not to follow biblical principles, right? But then the US is falling behind because it does not follow biblical principles. Confusion.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: nogodsforme on July 10, 2014, 07:14:19 PM
Atheist Japan also does not follow biblical principles and is doing well socially, economically and to some extent, environmentally. The atheist Scandinavian countries are doing even better on all counts (except Iceland with their recent euro-crash). On the other hand, Spain, Italy and Greece are way closer to the bible than Scandinavia or Japan, and their economies have completely crashed. Russia is becoming more Christian, and more capitalist, more unequal, more crime-ridden, more unhealthy, and more polluted than even during the Soviet era.

In many third world countries-- Philippines, Mexico, and Uganda-- come to mind, the people are following biblical principles as best as they know how. Poverty, crime and social problems abound-- some problems actually caused by people trying to obey the bible (killing witches and gay people, for example).

One country that will be interesting to watch is South Korea, the only Christian member of the "Asian tigers" (Confucian Taiwan, Buddhist Vietnam, Muslim Indonesia are also improving). There is a big biblical influence there, lots of foreign missionaries (including Mormons) promoting conservative Christianity, belief in evil demons, etc. And the export-oriented Korean economy is growing dramatically. We will see if inequality also grows.

Brazil is another Christian country that has improved greatly since the 1980's, but that is largely due to their recent socialist-style emphasis on social programs that reduce inequality, not an increase in religious belief. A friend who does research in Brazil says that the rapid shift from Catholicism to Evangelical Protestantism is the latest social trend in Latin America.[1]
 1. I noticed the rise in Mormon and JW influence in Latin America back in the 1990's. The town I lived in had (in addition to the requisite huge, opulent Catholic church that I attended most often) a Kingdom Hall that I attended a few times for curiosity, and a brand new Mormon church that I regret never having attended once.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 10, 2014, 08:49:24 PM
I withdraw my claim.

However, just because a lot of those countries are prospering doesn't mean they will prosper forever.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: nogodsforme on July 10, 2014, 09:17:35 PM
Nothing lasts forever.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: jynnan tonnix on July 10, 2014, 09:29:36 PM
I withdraw my claim.

However, just because a lot of those countries are prospering doesn't mean they will prosper forever.

Thank you for a small concession. May I ask, though, why you think that these countries seem to be doing better, even if it turns out to be short-lived? How long would a secular society have to thrive over a more religious one before you started to suspect it might be more than a fluke? What would you say if, in another 30 or 40 years, Christ had still not returned and the secular countries were continuing to show better statistics as far as crime, education, peace, etc?
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 10, 2014, 09:54:57 PM
I withdraw my claim.

However, just because a lot of those countries are prospering doesn't mean they will prosper forever.

Thank you for a small concession. May I ask, though, why you think that these countries seem to be doing better, even if it turns out to be short-lived? How long would a secular society have to thrive over a more religious one before you started to suspect it might be more than a fluke? What would you say if, in another 30 or 40 years, Christ had still not returned and the secular countries were continuing to show better statistics as far as crime, education, peace, etc?
the scary thing is once the secular countries no longer need to have us buy the product they make,because they have an energetic rising middle class who now buy the product they make. They have the facilities and the population to establish strong economies without the need for us to buy the product they now make for us.

 They now make the product because of the greed for more money from a small percentage who sold the working class in the "Christian" nation. The leaders who pretend to be Christian have sold out their own brothers and sisters for profit.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: 12 Monkeys on July 10, 2014, 09:56:19 PM
Yes skeptic I said pretend Christians
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: nogodsforme on July 11, 2014, 12:12:35 AM
Yes skeptic I said pretend Christians

Who can tell the difference?

I pretend to be a Christian of whatever variety whenever the need arises, and nobody has ever suspected. In black churches I sing gospel songs with the choir (loud alto), bow my head and raise one hand when people testify, say amen in the right places. Hell, I can out-Christian most anyone, but I do draw the line at getting the holy ghost or speaking in tongues.[1]
 1. When my book comes out, my cover will be blown, so everyone here better buy a copy.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: natlegend on July 11, 2014, 04:33:04 AM
I withdraw my claim.

A FIRST!!

However, just because a lot of those countries are prospering doesn't mean they will prosper forever.

Just because I don't own a pink unicorn doesn't mean I'll never own one...
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: screwtape on July 11, 2014, 07:38:28 AM
I withdraw my claim.

However, just because a lot of those countries are prospering doesn't mean they will prosper forever.

here is a possibility: many (all) cultures follow biblical principles to some degree without necessarily being bible believers.  I believe this is true because I believe certain rules are necessary to even have a society.  And the bible just happened to "capture" some of them.   

You cannot have a functional group of people where
 - killing one another is permissible.  It fosters distrust and vendettas and tears the community apart. 
 - people steal each others' stuff.
 - people lie to each other with impunity.
 - people own each other.  The bible missed this one.
 
So, I think there are some good values in the bible.  But I think they tend to be self evident values.  I also think the bible lacks some very important values, and values some crazy things, like the kosher laws.

 
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 17, 2014, 04:23:08 PM
Why don't we all write our own holy book of prophesy?....

....I'll start;
"....in the next six months an aircraft will crash. It will have red paint on its tail..."


Horrific news from the Ukraine today. Innocent people killed for no reason, my thoughts are with all the families hit by this tragedy.
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: skeptic54768 on July 17, 2014, 11:45:38 PM
Why don't we all write our own holy book of prophesy?....

....I'll start;
"....in the next six months an aircraft will crash. It will have red paint on its tail..."



Horrific news from the Ukraine today. Innocent people killed for no reason, my thoughts are with all the families hit by this tragedy.

Now, that is just downright scary. :o
Title: Re: Christians; Why Do Us Atheists Think Your God Doesn't Exist?
Post by: Ron Jeremy on July 18, 2014, 01:43:08 AM
Why don't we all write our own holy book of prophesy?....

....I'll start;
"....in the next six months an aircraft will crash. It will have red paint on its tail..."



Horrific news from the Ukraine today. Innocent people killed for no reason, my thoughts are with all the families hit by this tragedy.

Now, that is just downright scary. :o

It is also a vastly more accurate prophecy than anything contained in the bible. Time specific, event specific and identity specific.

If I can do this, and nothing supernatural about it, why would you accept a load of vague nonsense from the biblical (non) prophets?