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Main Discussion Zone => Science => Topic started by: wright on September 06, 2013, 11:13:00 PM

Title: extrasensory powers
Post by: wright on September 06, 2013, 11:13:00 PM
On this thread (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,25410.msg568689.html#new (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,25410.msg568689.html#new)), Greatest I am claimed:
Quote
I, for instance, believe in telepathy because I did it twice. I see it as a natural thing or I could not do it, I cannot do the supernatural, ---- and Noetic science has basically proven it to be a true phenomenon.

I don't find the evidence, or thus far lack of it, for so-called extrasensory abilities (telepathy, clairvoyance, telekinesis, etc.) convincing. These are phenomena that, if they really exist, would have measurable effects on the physical world.

Yet despite many claims, no such effects have been consistently shown. People who claim to have such powers fail, refuse or back away from empirical testing: http://www.ask.com/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge?o=2800&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com#Controversies_and_claimants (http://www.ask.com/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge?o=2800&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com#Controversies_and_claimants)

It would be amazing if such things were true. An entirely new field of science to be investigated, its connections to other fields to be explored... but such investigation has to have concrete, repeatable results to go forward. AFAIK, no such yet exist.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: ParkingPlaces on September 06, 2013, 11:44:42 PM
Ahhh, wright. Ye of absolutely zero faith. Where is your imagination?

Of course that stuff is true. How else did my ex make mountains out of molehills?  ;D

Outlandish claims, from people who have no standards for truth, get old.

If, as the poster you cited said, someone can almost accidentally be telepathic and then voluntarily quit, then, on a planet with 7 billion people, there should at least a few others who relish rather than reject their power, and example after example of good and bad deeds done via mind tricks should abound. If such abilities were possible in this universe, I don't think they would be limited to just a few reluctant individuals.

Here is a challenge. Right now I am thinking of a very specific vehicle. Any telepath worth his or her salt should be able to tell me what it is. And why I thought of that vehicle in particular. Until someone can do that, I'm not going to bother to believe.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Traveler on September 07, 2013, 12:44:35 AM
He did telepathy twice. Big woop. During a lifetime, if telepathy actually worked, two times would be a pathetic record. Chance, coincidence, the law of averages ... every now and then we'll stumble upon the correct answer. To the uninformed, or the gullible, it seems like magic, telepathy, remarkable powers of the mind. Balderdash.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 07, 2013, 02:42:49 PM
There has been much written lately on telepathy between twins.
I do not know why, unless it is brain formation, twins would be more prone to telepathy than the rest of us. It is a shock to the system and perhaps they can let their guard down more readily to a close match. I do believe that because it is an assault, we all have a shield, if you will, against intrusion.

I think it a rare case where a person like myself would be able to get past our natural shields.
It takes a strong desire and emotional content before I could do what I did. I cannot do it anymore as far as I know because I cannot draw up that emotion and desire on request. The needs that allowed me to do it are no longer within me.

You should know that I am not about to push for belief in this as I have nothing to show and would myself resist belief without a direct experience.

To those who think I am delusional. I don't care. I have a witness that says we would both have had to share this delusion and even as there is some belief that that could happen, it is even less likely to be true than what I have claimed.

Regards
DL




Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: wright on September 07, 2013, 03:03:33 PM
^^^As I said on the other thread, I appreciate your honesty in admitting you don't have empirical evidence. If you don't, you don't and that is the gold standard on this forum with regard to extraordinary claims.

The thing is, claims like this...
There has been much written lately on telepathy between twins.
I do not know why, unless it is brain formation, twins would be more prone to telepathy than the rest of us. It is a shock to the system and perhaps they can let their guard down more readily to a close match. I do believe that because it is an assault, we all have a shield, if you will, against intrusion.

... are vague in ways that make many regulars here curious. Can you supply links to these twin telepathy studies, or at least book references? What about brain formation makes telepathy between twins easier, or telepathy possible at all? How can we test for the existence of this "shield"? 

That you are making these claims implies you want a discussion. For your claims to be taken seriously, you need to provide evidence.

This may be a misunderstanding on my part: perhaps you're simply sharing your beliefs and aren't interested in debating them. You only need to say so.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 07, 2013, 04:12:59 PM
^^^As I said on the other thread, I appreciate your honesty in admitting you don't have empirical evidence. If you don't, you don't and that is the gold standard on this forum with regard to extraordinary claims.

The thing is, claims like this...
There has been much written lately on telepathy between twins.
I do not know why, unless it is brain formation, twins would be more prone to telepathy than the rest of us. It is a shock to the system and perhaps they can let their guard down more readily to a close match. I do believe that because it is an assault, we all have a shield, if you will, against intrusion.

... are vague in ways that make many regulars here curious. Can you supply links to these twin telepathy studies, or at least book references? What about brain formation makes telepathy between twins easier, or telepathy possible at all? How can we test for the existence of this "shield"? 

That you are making these claims implies you want a discussion. For your claims to be taken seriously, you need to provide evidence.

This may be a misunderstanding on my part: perhaps you're simply sharing your beliefs and aren't interested in debating them. You only need to say so.

The net is full of people and reports for telepathy and or telepathy in twins. Some tell me I am only giving my side when I link so I let people do their own research.

The usual reports of successful telepathy are not like what I experienced in intensity and to me are only interesting because they seem to just skim the surface of the minds and do nor really penetrate deeply into them.

All I offer is a personal experience and I will not argue for belief because I cannot prove anything.

All that I say that I do not have direct knowledge of is speculation on my part, like thinking we all have shields of some kind.

I just offer that as an explanation of why there are so few claim of telepathy.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: wright on September 07, 2013, 05:38:46 PM
^^^Fair enough. Though I would point out that many make such claims, then fail to provide evidence. You're at least honest in admitting that you don't have any.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 07, 2013, 06:07:27 PM
^^^Fair enough. Though I would point out that many make such claims, then fail to provide evidence. You're at least honest in admitting that you don't have any.

No one who claims telepathy can have evidence to show anyone except for the one he communicated with. The same applies to apotheosis or any revelation or enlightenment from other than the usual human and natural sources.

If I would have received the usual, I come quickly or follow Jesus, I would have told the voice to fuck off and come back with something useful.

As it is, I did get something useful. I was told to think demographically.
Quite a help to understanding that.

I then set the bar of my expectations higher, chose to ignore the entity I had found, --- and continue to seek the best rules to live by as I continue to fight right wing believers.

Regards
DL


 

Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: ParkingPlaces on September 07, 2013, 07:09:54 PM
Greatest;

Why do you suppose it is that something that never seems happen is so rare? One would think that if telepathy were in the human skill set, even just slightly, that evidence for such things would be a bit more obvious.

Before the experiences you allege, did you have any reason to think that telepathy was real? And if it was real, and you didn't know it, what do you suppose would change your mind on the subject, short of actually experiencing it yourself? And can  you see why a bunch of atheists, for whom skepticism is our bestest tool of all, might not get all hot and bothered about claims such as yours?

Second, you're all big on the cosmic consciousness stuff, or whatever term you used to tell us that you think there is some sort of universal center of consciousness or something. Why should we consider that as possible when we spend most of our time rejecting the many claims we hear here and elsewhere. Every month we get a few new people on the site who claim to have some singular and highly accurate take on religion, whether Jesus is include or not. They too reject standard teachings, standard doctrine, standard beliefs. Like all religious and semi-religious people, they don't agree with each other one whit.

So why should we seriously consider your words when they sound like a slight variation in claims we have heard from others, time and time again. What information do you have that nobody else has that should, once and for all, put mankind on the right track?

And if you have nothing but structured thoughts to show for your beliefs, why are you voicing them and making yourself sound a little daft. Especially when you have more useful and admirable points of view on politics, an area you and I appear to agree on in many ways.

And lastly, the atheist church thing. Yes, people tend to group up. However, said groups are hardly the pinnacle of humanity we all might want them to be. Each one has a propensity to think of itself as more important than the rest. Wanting to add one ore special interest group to life is counter productive.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 07, 2013, 09:37:42 PM

As I mentioned above, I think it is rare because it hurts and I think we have a blocking system of some kind. Privacy may be the reason for shielding. I don’t know. There are no secrets when two minds join.

I had no fixed opinion on telepathy before my experience. As a skeptic, I was curious about all the various odd unproven claims of all strange phenomena. I did not hold a belief in any of them. Proof is my thing. 

I too have listened to many say they had a contact with God but always fall back on the same old B. S. and to me that means that they are lying or delusional. If God can’t say anything new then he is useless to us.

As to why you should consider my claim seriously. I would be surprised if you did and would likely lose my respect for being gullible. Nothing important should be believed on just hear say unless the speaker is trusted completely.

You are correct in that it would be easier if I just kept my mouth shut about this but then I would be withholding pertinent information and to me that is as good as lying.

I am phobic about lying.

As to an atheist church, I do not see people taking care of the needs of their families as counter-productive.
I see it as our moral duty be we atheists or not.

Religions cater to our groupish or tribal instincts and if atheists do not then they are not doing their social duty in my opinion.

I hold that same view for atheists if they are not actively apologising against believers.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: ParkingPlaces on September 07, 2013, 11:24:15 PM
Okay, so I google "telepathy", and I find sites that tell me it is easy to do, sites that tell me that the sender has to be in under incredible duress and the receiver relaxed, sites that say that it is possible to receive the pain of others, but I'm not yet finding anything that says telepathy is, in and of itself, painful.

I won't say it doesn't hurt at all, because reading all that stuff caused me to shake my head in disbelief so much that my neck hurts.

Anyway, is telepathy like religion? With 38,000 denominations?

Correction: Actually I googled "telepathy pain"
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Anfauglir on September 08, 2013, 01:37:46 AM
As I said in t'other thread.....details please!

As for the "shield"......you are positing something that is apparently undetectable.  That we have apparently evolved it to defend us from something that seems to manifest itself in a tiny, tiny fraction of the population.  I wonder what proportion of the brain's processing power is devoted to maintaining this shield?  I'm guessing a lot, because in 99.9999999% of cases it does a perfect job.  Would the activation (or dropping) of the shield show up on an MRI, would you think?

On the two instances it happened, was that a case of you deliberately trying to break down the other person's shield?  Or did they - voluntarily or accidentally - lower their shield?  Is your claim that shields have to be in constant activation to defend against what would otherwise be a constant assault from all other minds around, or are they automatically raised when an assault is detected?  If so, they must pop up very fast, because if it is as painful as you say I would expect at least a flicker of "ow" before they activate.  Do the shields run when we are asleep?  Unconscious?  Are they affected by mind-altering drugs?

Telepathy itself....what is the range?  Will it work if we are in adjoining rooms?  What if we are 100 miles away?  Are our minds constantly and automatically trying to "invade" all the other minds around us, or does it only work when activated?  You said that it happened with a witness who was not involved in the actual experience - what reason do you think they were unaffected?  Were their shield stronger, or was it that you were not focussing your telepathic attack on them?

Its all more important info for working out how the shield actually works in practice.  Really looking forward to hearing so more detail so we can start to put together a working definition of this shield, and begin to test for it.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 08, 2013, 09:31:31 AM
Okay, so I google "telepathy", and I find sites that tell me it is easy to do, sites that tell me that the sender has to be in under incredible duress and the receiver relaxed, sites that say that it is possible to receive the pain of others, but I'm not yet finding anything that says telepathy is, in and of itself, painful.

I won't say it doesn't hurt at all, because reading all that stuff caused me to shake my head in disbelief so much that my neck hurts.

Anyway, is telepathy like religion? With 38,000 denominations?

Correction: Actually I googled "telepathy pain"

I can only speak for what I experienced and what I think went on.

I have already stated that from what I read of the telepathic experimentation going on, they are only touching the outer layers of perception. Real and or deep telepathy, according to my experience, causes both pain and pleasure.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 08, 2013, 09:40:28 AM
As I said in t'other thread.....details please!

As for the "shield"......you are positing something that is apparently undetectable.  That we have apparently evolved it to defend us from something that seems to manifest itself in a tiny, tiny fraction of the population.  I wonder what proportion of the brain's processing power is devoted to maintaining this shield?  I'm guessing a lot, because in 99.9999999% of cases it does a perfect job.  Would the activation (or dropping) of the shield show up on an MRI, would you think?

On the two instances it happened, was that a case of you deliberately trying to break down the other person's shield?  Or did they - voluntarily or accidentally - lower their shield?  Is your claim that shields have to be in constant activation to defend against what would otherwise be a constant assault from all other minds around, or are they automatically raised when an assault is detected?  If so, they must pop up very fast, because if it is as painful as you say I would expect at least a flicker of "ow" before they activate.  Do the shields run when we are asleep?  Unconscious?  Are they affected by mind-altering drugs?

Telepathy itself....what is the range?  Will it work if we are in adjoining rooms?  What if we are 100 miles away?  Are our minds constantly and automatically trying to "invade" all the other minds around us, or does it only work when activated?  You said that it happened with a witness who was not involved in the actual experience - what reason do you think they were unaffected?  Were their shield stronger, or was it that you were not focussing your telepathic attack on them?

Its all more important info for working out how the shield actually works in practice.  Really looking forward to hearing so more detail so we can start to put together a working definition of this shield, and begin to test for it.

I don't know where to start. Most of your question I can only answer with speculation and not facts as we know facts to be.

Most of what you ask I do not have concrete answers for.

I was only in that state for about 7 second of my whole life and I was under stress or duress so I could not evaluate things as well as if I had a lot of time.

Perhaps if you refine your questions to what I can know for sure and not just speculate on, we might get further.

This one I can do.

"On the two instances it happened, was that a case of you deliberately trying to break down the other person's shield?  Or did they - voluntarily or accidentally - lower their shield?"

Mine was not a deliberate attempt against the shields because I did not know that they existed at that time. I still do not know this as a fact. It is speculation after trying to reason what and how the process works.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: ParkingPlaces on September 08, 2013, 10:03:51 AM
Okay, so I google "telepathy", and I find sites that tell me it is easy to do, sites that tell me that the sender has to be in under incredible duress and the receiver relaxed, sites that say that it is possible to receive the pain of others, but I'm not yet finding anything that says telepathy is, in and of itself, painful.

I won't say it doesn't hurt at all, because reading all that stuff caused me to shake my head in disbelief so much that my neck hurts.

Anyway, is telepathy like religion? With 38,000 denominations?

Correction: Actually I googled "telepathy pain"

I can only speak for what I experienced and what I think went on.

I have already stated that from what I read of the telepathic experimentation going on, they are only touching the outer layers of perception. Real and or deep telepathy, according to my experience, causes both pain and pleasure.

Regards
DL

Well, like with religion, if there is no consistency to offer when more than one person is involved, I shall take it all with a grain of salt.

No, that's not true. I shall reject it entirely, as yet another case of human nonsense. If I've not experienced it and nobody using rigorous testing methods can detect it, I'll go ahead and dismiss it completely. If that ever changes, either personally or via science, I'll be happy to change my mind.

My mind isn't closed, but I do have my bullshit filter turned on.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 08, 2013, 10:26:22 AM
Indeed. We should all have a good amount of doubt to chase away gullibility.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Anfauglir on September 09, 2013, 03:39:50 AM
I don't know where to start.....

How about actually describing in detail the alleged event, rather than continuing to drop cryptic hints?

I have to be honest, thus far you are perfectly mirroring the behaviour of the Christian who tells us he "spoke to god", but whose story eventually boild down to "I prayed, then got a funny feeling".
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: jaimehlers on September 09, 2013, 07:33:43 AM
In his defense, if ESP-like abilities exist, they either use electromagnetism in a way that we haven't been able to pick up on, or else they use something else that we don't have the capability to detect at all.

That aside, for all that I really like the concept of ESP, I don't think it exists in human beings.  I strongly suspect that supposed examples of ESP, if genuine, are simply either blind luck or else the use of ordinary perception that the people involved aren't aware of.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 09, 2013, 11:14:29 AM
I don't know where to start.....

How about actually describing in detail the alleged event, rather than continuing to drop cryptic hints?


Happy to do so.
Try not to be ignorant though. I lack patience.

The details are short and simple.

I was in our basement den working on a proposal to a charity. My feminine side, as some call it, is rather deep in my character and does not always come out easily to the surface. I was thinking of this and chastising myself and sort of wishing that I had the more emotional side of my wife so that I could put more emotion in the work I was doing and I was suddenly looking at or feeling that emotion in her. I also effected her at the same time and knew it and ran upstairs to find her crying at the sink. She had just been doing the dishes and when I swung around the corner she just asked me what I had done. My response was that I did not know.

That is how I confirmed to myself and to her that telepathy was real.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 09, 2013, 11:21:11 AM
In his defense, if ESP-like abilities exist, they either use electromagnetism in a way that we haven't been able to pick up on, or else they use something else that we don't have the capability to detect at all.

That aside, for all that I really like the concept of ESP, I don't think it exists in human beings.  I strongly suspect that supposed examples of ESP, if genuine, are simply either blind luck or else the use of ordinary perception that the people involved aren't aware of.

The way I think it works, again, no proof, is that our brains and minds are like radio transmitters/receivers.

Noetic science believes that thought waves have actual mass just as radio waves do.

We produce actual substance that in this case can enter the receiver of another mind.

How exactly these beams of energy and mass got together to create the multi minded cosmic consciousness I believe exists, I have no idea.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Anfauglir on September 10, 2013, 05:47:28 AM
I don't know where to start.....

How about actually describing in detail the alleged event, rather than continuing to drop cryptic hints?


Happy to do so.
Try not to be ignorant though. I lack patience.

Funnily enough, so do I.  When someone drops cryptic hints about their particular brand of woo for post after post without going into detail, my patience wears very thin.

The details are short and simple.

I was in our basement den working on a proposal to a charity. My feminine side, as some call it, is rather deep in my character and does not always come out easily to the surface. I was thinking of this and chastising myself and sort of wishing that I had the more emotional side of my wife so that I could put more emotion in the work I was doing and I was suddenly looking at or feeling that emotion in her. I also effected her at the same time and knew it and ran upstairs to find her crying at the sink. She had just been doing the dishes and when I swung around the corner she just asked me what I had done. My response was that I did not know.

That is how I confirmed to myself and to her that telepathy was real.

Thank you.  I do not understand what you mean by the bolded sentence - can you provide more detail please?

How did you/do you rule out coincidence? 
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 10, 2013, 06:16:17 AM
I don't know where to start.....

How about actually describing in detail the alleged event, rather than continuing to drop cryptic hints?


Happy to do so.
Try not to be ignorant though. I lack patience.

Funnily enough, so do I.  When someone drops cryptic hints about their particular brand of woo for post after post without going into detail, my patience wears very thin.

The details are short and simple.

I was in our basement den working on a proposal to a charity. My feminine side, as some call it, is rather deep in my character and does not always come out easily to the surface. I was thinking of this and chastising myself and sort of wishing that I had the more emotional side of my wife so that I could put more emotion in the work I was doing and I was suddenly looking at or feeling that emotion in her. I also effected her at the same time and knew it and ran upstairs to find her crying at the sink. She had just been doing the dishes and when I swung around the corner she just asked me what I had done. My response was that I did not know.

That is how I confirmed to myself and to her that telepathy was real.

Thank you.  I do not understand what you mean by the bolded sentence - can you provide more detail please?

How did you/do you rule out coincidence?

I did not rule out coincidence. Even if it was, that does not take away the fact the telepathy is real and I was doing it.

That bolded was poorly written but these issues do not have the usual vocabulary.

Telepathy is a pure mental activity. Ever walk into a place and get a feeling of either comfort or discomfort?

People use the word vibes. The vibes were good. That type of thing. In the case of my wife and I, the vibes or emotions are all I perceived from her. I was only there co-joined mentally for just a second or two before snapping back to normal. The second time with the cosmic consciousness was longer, 6 seconds or so, and there was some communication by word but the only ones I recall were to think more demographically. I am a tough guy but I was crying for that time period just as my wife had done and that is why I did not pick up more.

Regards
DL

 
<<Mod: Fixed quotes>>
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Anfauglir on September 10, 2013, 06:21:35 AM
Telepathy is a pure mental activity. Ever walk into a place and get a feeling of either comfort or discomfort?   People use the word vibes. The vibes were good. That type of thing.

So places can "do telepathy"?  Sorry, that was glib, but you seem to be discounting the way that location and environment will react on the subconscious in well-documented and tested ways, in favour of telepathy.

In the case of my wife and I, the vibes or emotions are all I perceived from her. I was only there co-joined mentally for just a second or two before snapping back to normal. The second time with the cosmic consciousness was longer, 6 seconds or so, and there was some communication by word but the only ones I recall were to think more demographically. I am a tough guy but I was crying for that time period just as my wife had done and that is why I did not pick up more.

Is it possible to repeat or demonstrate what you claim happened to you?
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 10, 2013, 08:08:17 AM
Telepathy is a pure mental activity. Ever walk into a place and get a feeling of either comfort or discomfort?   People use the word vibes. The vibes were good. That type of thing.

So places can "do telepathy"?  Sorry, that was glib, but you seem to be discounting the way that location and environment will react on the subconscious in well-documented and tested ways, in favour of telepathy.

In the case of my wife and I, the vibes or emotions are all I perceived from her. I was only there co-joined mentally for just a second or two before snapping back to normal. The second time with the cosmic consciousness was longer, 6 seconds or so, and there was some communication by word but the only ones I recall were to think more demographically. I am a tough guy but I was crying for that time period just as my wife had done and that is why I did not pick up more.

Is it possible to repeat or demonstrate what you claim happened to you?

I am nothing special and I would think that given the same type of conditions everyone should be able to do it.

I have not been able to reproduce it because I can no longer draw up the emotional desire for more compassion nor the intensity, I guess, that is required to activate telepathy.

As to proof. The only proof that I know of would be to test both my wife and I on a polygraph but many still would not believe even a positive result. So I would say there is no way to prove telepathy.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Anfauglir on September 10, 2013, 08:20:05 AM
I am nothing special and I would think that given the same type of conditions everyone should be able to do it.

I have not been able to reproduce it because I can no longer draw up the emotional desire for more compassion nor the intensity, I guess, that is required to activate telepathy.

Sorry - in the first sentence you appear to say it IS reproducible - but in the second you say that you have been unable to? 

As to proof. The only proof that I know of would be to test both my wife and I on a polygraph but many still would not believe even a positive result. So I would say there is no way to prove telepathy.

Since polygraphs only measure belief in a statement, I have no doubt at all that you would pass without a problem.  Same as a Christian would be "proved true" when they say there IS a god, and an atheist "proved true" when they say there is not.  So wuite what a polygraph has to do with it I don't know.

Your first sentence said "I would think that given the same type of conditions everyone should be able to do it", implying a pretty simple and commonplace event.  Yet then you say "I would say there is no way to prove telepathy" - I'm not sure which answer you are going with?

If telepathy exists, then given the same conditions that you were in (something fairly commonplace and eminently repeatable) we should expect to see "telepathy" happening on a regular basis, given the 6 billion people on the planet.  I'm unclear as to why you feel there is no way to prove that telepathy exists?
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Mrjason on September 10, 2013, 08:27:30 AM
<sinp>. So I would say there is no way to prove telepathy.

Regards
DL

Zener cards?
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 10, 2013, 08:46:59 AM
Anfauglir

“Sorry - in the first sentence you appear to say it IS reproducible - but in the second you say that you have been unable to?”

I have been unable to to date but that does not mean it will never happen again if the conditions get duplicated again. I imagine it is the same situation for all of us. We can all do it as far as I know.

You are correct that the polygraph shows what we believe and not necessarily the truth.

If a test were ever given to my wife and I, those who see two people believing that the same telepathic experience happened to them, would have to decide for themselves if they want to believe the positive test or not.

As to my experience with the Godhead, no verification is available so there is no way to prove that one. 


“(something fairly commonplace and eminently repeatable)”

You say I imply this but I said that it is fairly rare as you confirmed.

Regards
DL



Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: ParkingPlaces on September 10, 2013, 08:59:02 AM
Greatest

Lets say, for the sake of argument, that telepathy is absolutely real. Rare, but real. And painful.

What good is that information? When it comes to forming an overall world view? If telepathy plays only the tiniest part of our day to day lives, if that much, cannot we simply say that it appears that sometimes human minds can connect, but that doesn't matter because it doesn't accomplish diddly? Cannot you say, at this point in human learning, where most consider telepathy to be imagined, that it doesn't really matter because it is of no use anyway, and simply accept that if it is real, people will eventually find out. And still not use it.

That you were shocked by the events you describe could be mildly interesting at this point in human development. That, to you, the best explanation, that of telepathy, is now less of a mystery doesn't mean that it is also of an ultimate importance. At best, it is like discovering a DeWalt battery powered drill in a cave, 25,000 years ago. The lack of screws would have meant it was of no value. Plus recharging would be a bitch.

It sounds like you're too impressed by something that is of otherwise little use. Maybe 500 years from now telepathy will have been proven. Right now it isn't, and most of us doubt that it exists. So even if it is real, by your own admission it appears to be too rare and painful to use anyway, maybe you should just shrug your shoulders after saying "wow" and concentrate you energies on more well grounded endeavors.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 10, 2013, 09:04:17 AM
<sinp>. So I would say there is no way to prove telepathy.

Regards
DL

Zener cards?

Research have been using those for years with statistically significant results but the type of telepathy they postulate is not what my wife and I experienced.

To be equivalent, every hit on a card would drop the test subject to their knees. So to speak.
I don't know if a mind could take the intensity of emotion or not.

I did a quick search for some statistical results and did find much on twins but nothing peer reviewed.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Anfauglir on September 10, 2013, 09:05:15 AM
You are correct that the polygraph shows what we believe and not necessarily the truth.

If a test were ever given to my wife and I, those who see two people believing that the same telepathic experience happened to them, would have to decide for themselves if they want to believe the positive test or not.

I would entirely believe the positive test - that the two of you both believed something had happened to you.  But that would not be proof in the slightest of telepathy, for exactly the reasons I gave.

Put me on a polygraph.  I will state that the two of you did NOT experience telepathy.  And the polygraph will confirm my statement.  But that would not be evidence of my position either.

Frankly, mentioning polygraph tests in the first place makes me raise an eyebrow, because I usually see them touted by people who rely on the general public equating belief in a statement, with obejective existence of the statement's assertion.  Quite different things.

“Sorry - in the first sentence you appear to say it IS reproducible - but in the second you say that you have been unable to?”

I have been unable to to date but that does not mean it will never happen again if the conditions get duplicated again. I imagine it is the same situation for all of us. We can all do it as far as I know.

OR, NOBODY can do it (as far as you know), and what happened to you were two freak occurrences that have never, and will never, be replicated, explainable by quantum blips in the universe.  As I said elsewhere, you've jumped from "something weird happened to two people for a split second" to everyone being capable of telepathy in the right circumstances and everyone having mind shiled to protect them from the asserted mass-mind that you claim exists.

“(something fairly commonplace and eminently repeatable)”
You say I imply this but I said that it is fairly rare as you confirmed.
 

Rare?  Hardly.  "I was ….. chastising myself and sort of wishing that I had the more emotional side of my wife so that I could put more emotion in the work I was doing"  That's not rare - though maybe it is for you.  Simply from my own experience, it’s a thought I've had myself a few times.  From conversations and my professional experience dealing with people it is hardly an uncommon wish.  With 6 billion people in the world, it may be "rare" in that only maybe 100,000 people thought it today, but it's by no means an infrequent thought.

So unless there is a whole lot more information you haven't previously shared, there is nothing you were doing that would not be regularly replicated all round the world.  So what you need to do, if your theory of global telepathy is to hold water, is to explain why the results you experienced are so apparently unique.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 10, 2013, 09:12:32 AM
Greatest

Lets say, for the sake of argument, that telepathy is absolutely real. Rare, but real. And painful.

What good is that information? When it comes to forming an overall world view? If telepathy plays only the tiniest part of our day to day lives, if that much, cannot we simply say that it appears that sometimes human minds can connect, but that doesn't matter because it doesn't accomplish diddly? Cannot you say, at this point in human learning, where most consider telepathy to be imagined, that it doesn't really matter because it is of no use anyway, and simply accept that if it is real, people will eventually find out. And still not use it.

That you were shocked by the events you describe could be mildly interesting at this point in human development. That, to you, the best explanation, that of telepathy, is now less of a mystery doesn't mean that it is also of an ultimate importance. At best, it is like discovering a DeWalt battery powered drill in a cave, 25,000 years ago. The lack of screws would have meant it was of no value. Plus recharging would be a bitch.

It sounds like you're too impressed by something that is of otherwise little use. Maybe 500 years from now telepathy will have been proven. Right now it isn't, and most of us doubt that it exists. So even if it is real, by your own admission it appears to be too rare and painful to use anyway, maybe you should just shrug your shoulders after saying "wow" and concentrate you energies on more well grounded endeavors.

No argument and I do.

As to the importance or not of telepathy, I think it is or will be important.

Think biofeedback. A proven technique. Now add that noetic science thinks that matter is created or manipulated by the brain when doing telepathy. If science could effectively get biofeedback and telepathy together, we could do chemo therapy without drugs by just using the mind to go out, eh, into ourselves and kill the undesirable elements.

Regards
DL
 

Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 10, 2013, 09:20:42 AM
You are correct that the polygraph shows what we believe and not necessarily the truth.

If a test were ever given to my wife and I, those who see two people believing that the same telepathic experience happened to them, would have to decide for themselves if they want to believe the positive test or not.

I would entirely believe the positive test - that the two of you both believed something had happened to you.  But that would not be proof in the slightest of telepathy, for exactly the reasons I gave.

Put me on a polygraph.  I will state that the two of you did NOT experience telepathy.  And the polygraph will confirm my statement.  But that would not be evidence of my position either.

Frankly, mentioning polygraph tests in the first place makes me raise an eyebrow, because I usually see them touted by people who rely on the general public equating belief in a statement, with obejective existence of the statement's assertion.  Quite different things.

“Sorry - in the first sentence you appear to say it IS reproducible - but in the second you say that you have been unable to?”

I have been unable to to date but that does not mean it will never happen again if the conditions get duplicated again. I imagine it is the same situation for all of us. We can all do it as far as I know.

OR, NOBODY can do it (as far as you know), and what happened to you were two freak occurrences that have never, and will never, be replicated, explainable by quantum blips in the universe.  As I said elsewhere, you've jumped from "something weird happened to two people for a split second" to everyone being capable of telepathy in the right circumstances and everyone having mind shiled to protect them from the asserted mass-mind that you claim exists.

“(something fairly commonplace and eminently repeatable)”
You say I imply this but I said that it is fairly rare as you confirmed.
 

Rare?  Hardly.  "I was ….. chastising myself and sort of wishing that I had the more emotional side of my wife so that I could put more emotion in the work I was doing"  That's not rare - though maybe it is for you.  Simply from my own experience, it’s a thought I've had myself a few times.  From conversations and my professional experience dealing with people it is hardly an uncommon wish.  With 6 billion people in the world, it may be "rare" in that only maybe 100,000 people thought it today, but it's by no means an infrequent thought.

So unless there is a whole lot more information you haven't previously shared, there is nothing you were doing that would not be regularly replicated all round the world.  So what you need to do, if your theory of global telepathy is to hold water, is to explain why the results you experienced are so apparently unique.

I cannot.

"to everyone being capable of telepathy in the right circumstances and everyone having mind shield to protect them from the asserted mass-mind that you claim exists."

Not quite what I said or meant.

I do not claim that the shield exists.
I was speculating as to how things might work, not how they work.

We would be protecting ourselves from each other, not the mass mind.

For all I know, we might not have shields at all but might be refraining ourselves do to the pleasure and pain as well as the lose of privacy.

Regards
DL

Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Anfauglir on September 10, 2013, 09:27:51 AM
For all I know, we might not have shields at all but might be refraining ourselves do to the pleasure and pain as well as the lose of privacy.

And as I said, for all you know, "telepathy" is a phenomenon that has and will only ever happen twice in the histiry of the whole universe, that by chance both involved you.

Given that - do far as we know - it HAS only ever happened those two times, any kind of speculation about mind shields and telepathy for all and the great-group-consciousness can be no more than impassioned flights of fantasy.

That said, I've got no problems if that is what you want to believe.  You're not hurting anyone, so far as I can see, and your beliefs make you happy.  So I'll duck out now, unless and until you present anything even remotely verifiable.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 10, 2013, 09:49:40 AM
Thanks for this.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: William on September 10, 2013, 09:50:24 AM
Just a thought  :)

Possibly a more plausible explanation of these "incidents" might be communication via chemosignals (e.g. pheromones or similar.)

That phenomenon certainly has real mechanisms (not yet well understood in humans - but known to be still present), and would be consistent with some of the vague emotional states described.

Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 10, 2013, 10:29:38 AM
Just a thought  :)

Possibly a more plausible explanation of these "incidents" might be communication via chemosignals (e.g. pheromones or similar.)

That phenomenon certainly has real mechanisms (not yet well understood in humans - but known to be still present), and would be consistent with some of the vague emotional states described.

If so it would have to be only effective in or to females.

At the time, 3 of my son's were in the house and in the room just adjacent to where my wife was  and they did not show any effects.

Chemistry may be a possibility but I rather doubt it unless my thinking pattern created it but it would be triggered by sexual desire and that was not in play at that time.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: William on September 10, 2013, 10:39:57 AM
^ Receptivity would vary between individuals, and could be enhanced in a spouse who has been exposed to your "signals" during other emotional times.

Chemosignals are not restricted to sex.  They play a role in many emotions and even empathy.  And they are triggered by thoughts  :)
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: William on September 10, 2013, 10:52:37 AM
GIa you could've been sending out a variety of signals - hence "pleasure and pain" - and received only by your wife.

This might have been one of the signals:

Quote
The communication of stress/anxiety between conspecifics through chemosensory signals has been documented in many vertebrates and invertebrates. Here, we investigate how chemosensory anxiety signals conveyed by the sweat of humans (N = 49) awaiting an academic examination are processed by the human brain, as compared to chemosensory control signals obtained from the same sweat donors in a sport condition. The chemosensory stimuli were pooled according to the donation condition and administered to 28 participants (14 males) synchronously to breathing via an olfactometer. The stimuli were perceived with a low intensity and accordingly only about half of the odor presentations were detected by the participants. The fMRI results (event-related design) show that chemosensory anxiety signals activate brain areas involved in the processing of social emotional stimuli (fusiform gyrus), and in the regulation of empathic feelings (insula, precuneus, cingulate cortex). In addition, neuronal activity within attentional (thalamus, dorsomedial prefrontal cortex) and emotional (cerebellum, vermis) control systems were observed. The chemosensory perception of human anxiety seems to automatically recruit empathy-related resources. Even though the participants could not attentively differentiate the chemosensory stimuli, emotional contagion seems to be effectively mediated by the olfactory system.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0005987
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 10, 2013, 12:59:58 PM
As I said above there is a possibility of this but I would not know it.

I can appreciate or see (slightly) where my wife could have been affected by my chemistry but I also sensed her and that would mean that she too would have to have been sending.

I think that to be even further up the weird scale than my thinking it was telepathy.

Regards
DL

Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: William on September 10, 2013, 09:42:17 PM
I can appreciate or see (slightly) where my wife could have been affected by my chemistry ....
It's good that your mind is open to other explanations.  You've obviously experienced something very unusual and invested a lot of thought in researching the telepathy hypothesis - and you've also taken a bit of a risk in backing that explanation in front of a bunch of uber-skeptics here :laugh:  It takes a bit of courage to expose something like that, something that can attract ridicule. So I tend to believe you did indeed experience something profound that you couldn't explain any other way at the time.


.... but I also sensed her and that would mean that she too would have to have been sending.
It's also possible that it wasn't a two-way chemosignal communication - or not so at the start.  The strong emotional thoughts you were having about your wife might have originated entirely in your own brain - triggering the pheromone release which she then reacted to.

Something happen to both of you, closely linked in time, that made a huge impact. So it's perfectly understandable that you would attribute it to the only available explanation of telepathy - a concept that every kid has heard about (even though it has never been demonstrated as fact.)

It's also possible that your recollections of the incidents has become shaped by the explanation attributed to them - that kind of memory alteration has been scientifically demonstrated to be extremely common (almost inevitable) and there is no reason to think any of us as immune it.  It's not being delusional - just a brain mechanism whereby we overwrite the real original memory with a slightly modified memory based on new information and our own attempts to explain the memory.  We are completely unaware when this happens to us - so there is no dishonesty involved - only a natural fallibility we all have.  I saw a documentary recently where eyewitnesses to a crime change their recollections of crucial aspects of evidence after new ideas get deliberately 'planted' after the fact by the researchers.  I'll look that up but meanwhile, if you are interested, you can start with this:
Quote
However, the accuracy of eyewitness memories is sometimes questioned because there are many factors that can act during encoding and retrieval of the witnessed event which may adversely affect the creation and maintenance of the memory for the event. Experts have found evidence to suggest that eyewitness memory is volatile
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_memory


I think that to be even further up the weird scale than my thinking it was telepathy.
Apply Occam's Razor ;) 

Chemosignals are a real phenomenon for which there is evidence - evidence that is easy to reproduce under controlled conditions. And the physiological mechanisms are known in many cases. 

Telepathy has no known physical mechanisms. It is widely claimed (including by many professional 'psychics'  &) ) but never unambiguously demonstrated, and never reproduced under controlled conditions.  And to accommodate the difficulty of demonstrating it, we need to invent a second complexity - an unproven seemingly magical shield.  So we have a mysterious function kept in check by a mysterious anti-function that sometimes fails :?     


Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 11, 2013, 09:37:07 AM
I have no argument to any of this and already stated in answer to your crime situation that yes the details are foggy and right out to lunch on the crime but they all knew that something had transpired.

The only thing I can say about my thinking and in my defence is that having a poor memory, I have always relied on logic trails and reason to keep myself consistent. It seems to work as I seldom have to recant and I tend not to lose any argument I get into. No. That is not a delusion.

Either way, it is a benign belief and that is why I do not lose sleep over whether or not there are other explanations. I have though on it as that is what I do a lot and will keep my opinion until it is proven, disproven or a better explanation comes out.

Regards
DL 
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 11, 2013, 09:38:26 AM
Hey. I can use those Darwin buttons now.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 20, 2013, 10:21:11 PM
Here is what appears to be replicable telepathy.

Check at the 19 min mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHZXnIhGOSg

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: jdawg70 on September 24, 2013, 03:44:52 PM
The only thing I can say about my thinking and in my defence is that having a poor memory, I have always relied on logic trails and reason to keep myself consistent. It seems to work as I seldom have to recant and I tend not to lose any argument I get into. No. That is not a delusion.
So I don't mean to imply that you're necessarily guilty of it, but seldom having to recant and a tendency to not lose arguments can be accomplished in several ways.  Being correct is one of them.  Being stubborn is another.  Being ignorant is a third.  Being disingenuous is a fourth.

Again, not saying that you're any of these.  But claiming that one seldomly recants statements or rarely loses arguments doesn't necessarily imply that you apply rules of logic consistently or correctly.

But I want to point something out: you've posted the same Youtube link (that I can't view as Youtube is under the impression that I can't view it in the US) as an example of something that appears to be repeatable telepathy.  Logically, if you can find only one example of some action that is purported to be repeatable, shouldn't your absolute, very first instinct be to ask 'why don't I see more examples'?  Doesn't the existence of one and only one example of repeatable telepathy raise any red flags for you?  Cold fusion comes to mind...
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Fiji on September 25, 2013, 02:16:52 AM
Here is what appears to be replicable telepathy.


Ah yes, the god-helmet guy.
Attempts have been made to reproduce his findings, using the setup he describes in his publications. So far, no one has been able to reproduce the effect.
Which either means that Dr Persinger has omitted a key element of the setup or that he is, accidentally or deliberatly, inserting the visual stimuli into the brains of his test subjects trough the magnetic field he is subjecting them to. I concur with jdawg70 ... a single 'hit' doesn't mean you've actually found anything.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 25, 2013, 08:05:21 AM
The only thing I can say about my thinking and in my defence is that having a poor memory, I have always relied on logic trails and reason to keep myself consistent. It seems to work as I seldom have to recant and I tend not to lose any argument I get into. No. That is not a delusion.
So I don't mean to imply that you're necessarily guilty of it, but seldom having to recant and a tendency to not lose arguments can be accomplished in several ways.  Being correct is one of them.  Being stubborn is another.  Being ignorant is a third.  Being disingenuous is a fourth.

Again, not saying that you're any of these.  But claiming that one seldomly recants statements or rarely loses arguments doesn't necessarily imply that you apply rules of logic consistently or correctly.

But I want to point something out: you've posted the same Youtube link (that I can't view as Youtube is under the impression that I can't view it in the US) as an example of something that appears to be repeatable telepathy.  Logically, if you can find only one example of some action that is purported to be repeatable, shouldn't your absolute, very first instinct be to ask 'why don't I see more examples'?  Doesn't the existence of one and only one example of repeatable telepathy raise any red flags for you?  Cold fusion comes to mind...

Cold fusion has never had a repeatable proof of it's reality so we are comparing apples and oranges.

Whatever that Sudbury lab has produced will be looked at by the neurological community probably with Noetic science organizations and in a year or two they may develop something useful for us. It is too new at the moment and yes, other labs will also have to prove the theory.

I think, like most sciences and developments, it will depend on whether or not someone comes up with a way of making money off it. If we do not find a profit angle then the funding for research will be slow.

Regards
DL




Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 25, 2013, 08:13:40 AM
Here is what appears to be replicable telepathy.


Ah yes, the god-helmet guy.
Attempts have been made to reproduce his findings, using the setup he describes in his publications. So far, no one has been able to reproduce the effect.
Which either means that Dr Persinger has omitted a key element of the setup or that he is, accidentally or deliberatly, inserting the visual stimuli into the brains of his test subjects trough the magnetic field he is subjecting them to. I concur with jdawg70 ... a single 'hit' doesn't mean you've actually found anything.

I agree.

I don't know if you have read many reports of experiments in telepathy. Many say that it somehow depends on the beliefs of the technicians doing the experiment.

I used to think that a crock of shit to explain away non-replication but now with quantum physics saying what they are, it muddies the water. I think much will happen in the next few years that will surprise us.

Believing and knowing that telepathy is real opens me more to possible other truths that we presently have not proven. The trick is to not open my mind so much that garbage ends up filling it.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: jdawg70 on September 25, 2013, 12:43:03 PM
Cold fusion has never had a repeatable proof of it's reality so we are comparing apples and oranges.
But...my point is that this telepathy business seems to also not have any repeatable proof.  Or, if it does, I'm not aware of it.  Do you have links or citations to publications for additional independent studies of some kind?  Until then...we're comparing apples to apples here.
Quote
Whatever that Sudbury lab has produced will be looked at by the neurological community probably with Noetic science organizations and in a year or two they may develop something useful for us. It is too new at the moment and yes, other labs will also have to prove the theory.

I think, like most sciences and developments, it will depend on whether or not someone comes up with a way of making money off it. If we do not find a profit angle then the funding for research will be slow.
The only reason people like getting lots of money is because that money gets them control.  There are few superpowers out there better suited to controlling others than being able to read another's mind and/or telepathically influence it.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: jdawg70 on September 25, 2013, 12:47:54 PM
I agree.

I don't know if you have read many reports of experiments in telepathy. Many say that it somehow depends on the beliefs of the technicians doing the experiment.

I used to think that a crock of shit to explain away non-replication but now with quantum physics saying what they are, it muddies the water. I think much will happen in the next few years that will surprise us.

Believing and knowing that telepathy is real opens me more to possible other truths that we presently have not proven. The trick is to not open my mind so much that garbage ends up filling it.

Regards
DL
In another thread on a different topic, I remember you saying once that I sounded like a Christian with a particular post.

Also, what does quantum physics have to do with any of this right now?
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 25, 2013, 03:13:40 PM
Cold fusion has never had a repeatable proof of it's reality so we are comparing apples and oranges.
But...my point is that this telepathy business seems to also not have any repeatable proof.  Or, if it does, I'm not aware of it.  Do you have links or citations to publications for additional independent studies of some kind?  Until then...we're comparing apples to apples here.
Quote
Whatever that Sudbury lab has produced will be looked at by the neurological community probably with Noetic science organizations and in a year or two they may develop something useful for us. It is too new at the moment and yes, other labs will also have to prove the theory.

I think, like most sciences and developments, it will depend on whether or not someone comes up with a way of making money off it. If we do not find a profit angle then the funding for research will be slow.
The only reason people like getting lots of money is because that money gets them control.  There are few superpowers out there better suited to controlling others than being able to read another's mind and/or telepathically influence it.

Knowing someone's thoughts is not controlling that person.

As to repeatability. That Sudbury scientists claims he has. He would be the one to question.

As to other claims of telepathy, Google it and read many testimonials and about many experiments that have been good enough to keep many looking for many  years now. I gave what I had.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: jdawg70 on September 25, 2013, 03:25:08 PM
Knowing someone's thoughts is not controlling that person.
But knowing someone's thoughts would make it pretty easy-peasy to manipulate that someone.
Quote
As to repeatability. That Sudbury scientists claims he has. He would be the one to question.
Why do you believe that claim exactly?  I'm questioning why it is that you believe the Sudbury claim that they have a repeatable phenomenon.
Quote
As to other claims of telepathy, Google it and read many testimonials and about many experiments that have been good enough to keep many looking for many  years now. I gave what I had.
The same can be said for the divinity of Jesus, the alive-ness of Elvis, the existence of The Loch Ness Monster, the Moon landing hoax, and the flatness of the Earth.  Google is great, but it's also a treasure trove of unverifiable bulls**t (seeing as how the Internet is, frankly, chalk full of unverifiable bulls**t).  That's why it's nice to have a collection of peer-reviewed, repeated experimentation; helps to sift through it all.
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 25, 2013, 03:33:46 PM
I agree.

I don't know if you have read many reports of experiments in telepathy. Many say that it somehow depends on the beliefs of the technicians doing the experiment.

I used to think that a crock of shit to explain away non-replication but now with quantum physics saying what they are, it muddies the water. I think much will happen in the next few years that will surprise us.

Believing and knowing that telepathy is real opens me more to possible other truths that we presently have not proven. The trick is to not open my mind so much that garbage ends up filling it.

Regards
DL
In another thread on a different topic, I remember you saying once that I sounded like a Christian with a particular post.

Also, what does quantum physics have to do with any of this right now?

I picked up that clip that you could not view from another source.

Please see if you can load it then you will know as much as I do right from the experts.

http://vimeo.com/26318064

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 25, 2013, 03:39:02 PM
Knowing someone's thoughts is not controlling that person.
But knowing someone's thoughts would make it pretty easy-peasy to manipulate that someone.
Quote
As to repeatability. That Sudbury scientists claims he has. He would be the one to question.
Why do you believe that claim exactly?  I'm questioning why it is that you believe the Sudbury claim that they have a repeatable phenomenon.
Quote
As to other claims of telepathy, Google it and read many testimonials and about many experiments that have been good enough to keep many looking for many  years now. I gave what I had.
The same can be said for the divinity of Jesus, the alive-ness of Elvis, the existence of The Loch Ness Monster, the Moon landing hoax, and the flatness of the Earth.  Google is great, but it's also a treasure trove of unverifiable bulls**t (seeing as how the Internet is, frankly, chalk full of unverifiable bulls**t).  That's why it's nice to have a collection of peer-reviewed, repeated experimentation; helps to sift through it all.

There is nothing repeatable or verifiable for claims of Jesus but are for what we are talking about here.

When scientists make public statements they are under close scrutiny. I believe that Sudbury scientist because his career is on the line if he fudged any data and if his experiment cannot be replicated using his methods by other scientists.

They have peer revue. Theologians have nothing like it.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: jdawg70 on September 26, 2013, 03:36:01 PM
I picked up that clip that you could not view from another source.

Please see if you can load it then you will know as much as I do right from the experts.
Thanks!  That link appears to work, though I'm in no position to view it right now.  Will do so later on.

There is nothing repeatable or verifiable for claims of Jesus but are for what we are talking about here.

When scientists make public statements they are under close scrutiny. I believe that Sudbury scientist because his career is on the line if he fudged any data and if his experiment cannot be replicated using his methods by other scientists.

They have peer revue. Theologians have nothing like it.
And perhaps the video will answer the following, but I thought I'd ask them now while I'm thinking about them:
1) There are repeatable or verifiable claims for what we're talking about?  And by repeatable, I mean experiments that have actually been independently repeated.  And again, haven't watched the video yet so I may be speaking out of turn here, but I would have expected your claim here to be followed by some examples (peer reviewed journals, other instances of these tests being repeated and verified) of repeatability.
2) Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann also made public statements, and I suspect their careers were also on the line.  I don't think they intentionally fudged their data, but they did, innocuously or otherwise, screw up their experiment so the claims they made that they thought were true turned out to be false, revealed by attempted replication of their experiment and results.  Basically, I'm sure the Sudbury scientist wants to be honest and wants to be correct, but that's hardly a reason to accept that his claims are true, are they?
3) If there actually is peer review, please trot it out.  Don't just say that it's been peer reviewed; back it up. (again, same caveat about me not having watched the video apply here.  But honestly, you've watched the video, and if it does have listing of peer reviewed material or replication of experiments by others, you could always just list them out here for the benefit of everyone, including yourself)
Title: Re: extrasensory powers
Post by: Greatest I am on September 27, 2013, 10:07:03 AM
This is all new research as far as I know and I do not know if his peers have caught up as yet.

That is all I have on this.

Regards
DL