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Main Discussion Zone => General Religious Discussion => Topic started by: Disciple of Sagan on January 17, 2013, 03:48:45 PM

Title: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: Disciple of Sagan on January 17, 2013, 03:48:45 PM
...And David killed Goliath with a ray gun.

According to Ken Ham (president and founder of aig):
Quote
Many of the ancient people listed in the Bible’s genealogies lived very long lives.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009/01/20/ancient-patriarchs-in-genesis (http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009/01/20/ancient-patriarchs-in-genesis).

There's even a chart listing the ages of the biblical patriarchs, who all lived on average (pre-flood) 900 years or so.

This got me to thinking... look at all of the great thinkers of the ancient world: Aristotle... Archimedes... Hippocrates... Ptolemy just to name a few, and the world-changing ideas and inventions they came up with during their realitively "normal" lifespans. Just imagine what they could have accomplished had they been "blessed" with even another 100-200 years of life!

So, it stands to reason that between Adam and his long-lived decendants, the collective wisdom and knowledge bequeathed from father to son over the centuries should have produced at least one world-changing contraption, right? Right??

In fact, I bet that given any invention would have been so technologically advanced that it would have appeared indistinguishable from magic to the locals! Oooops... did I say magic...? I meant miracles!

It all makes perfect sense now... there is no conflict between the religion and science!! Forget trying to prove the Shroud of Turin is real or not... what we should really be putting our efforts in to is finding the bacta tank Jesus was put in to heal his wounds after the crusifiction... I mean, crusifixion!


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Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: Fiji on January 18, 2013, 07:01:22 AM
Something similar occured to me only this morning. Why Exodus? The Ancient Hebrew were never IN Egypt ... so why make up a story set in Egypt?
Cause Egypt was the biggest baddest kid on the playground at that time.
"Our god beat the shit out of the Egyptians!" sounds a hell of a lot more impressive that "Yeah, Yahweh beat up the Arabs"[1]

But, hang on, if the Hebrew were god's chosen people ... why did the Egyptians have such a massive technological lead over them? And this ... without the help of any gods of their own. In fact, the Hebrew were literally surrounded by more advanced civilizations.
A bit of Prometheus' story shining through there? "If I make them too smart, they won't need me anymore. Then what will I do for laughs?! Better keep them dumb and subservient" ... which is, of course, an attitude we don't see ANYWHERE in modern day christianity ... *sigh*
 1. who, at the time were a tiny tribe, still pretty much in the stoneage
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: The Gawd on January 18, 2013, 10:06:35 AM
Something similar occured to me only this morning. Why Exodus? The Ancient Hebrew were never IN Egypt ... so why make up a story set in Egypt?
Cause Egypt was the biggest baddest kid on the playground at that time.
"Our god beat the shit out of the Egyptians!" sounds a hell of a lot more impressive that "Yeah, Yahweh beat up the Arabs"[1]

But, hang on, if the Hebrew were god's chosen people ... why did the Egyptians have such a massive technological lead over them? And this ... without the help of any gods of their own. In fact, the Hebrew were literally surrounded by more advanced civilizations.
A bit of Prometheus' story shining through there? "If I make them too smart, they won't need me anymore. Then what will I do for laughs?! Better keep them dumb and subservient" ... which is, of course, an attitude we don't see ANYWHERE in modern day christianity ... *sigh*
 1. who, at the time were a tiny tribe, still pretty much in the stoneage

But the bible confirms that they (Egyptians and everyone else) had Gods that were equally as likely as Yahweh... at least until the alter lighting test that Christians will avoid at all costs today. To be sure, even Yahwehs own chosen people seemed to be continually unimpressed by Yahweh's power as they always seemed to go back to worshipping other gods. Which suggests that Yahweh was, in their minds, only as real as the other gods they were aware of. All of which the world pretty much accepts as not real.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: Disciple of Sagan on January 18, 2013, 12:21:42 PM
But, hang on, if the Hebrew were god's chosen people ... why did the Egyptians have such a massive technological lead over them?

Except when it came to petrochemicals... y'know, lamp oil that last 7 days longer than other brand name competitors. ;)

Although I was being tongue-in-cheek with my op, you hit upon the point I was trying to make. By all accounts, the Hebrews had at least the opportunity to be the most technologically advanced society of that era. Of course, the xians would probably counter with something along the lines of "They were single-mindedly focused on spiritual matters, and god provided everything they needed to flourish" or such similar rubbish.

I actual read on another xian site that it was Noah's sons who built at least one of the great pyramids in Egypt as a place to store and preserve all of their history and knowlege in preparation of the flood. The other pyramids were just copies built long afterwards by the Egyptians. Ugh. 
&)

But the bible confirms that they (Egyptians and everyone else) had Gods that were equally as likely as Yahweh... at least until the alter lighting test that Christians will avoid at all costs today. To be sure, even Yahwehs own chosen people seemed to be continually unimpressed by Yahweh's power as they always seemed to go back to worshipping other gods. Which suggests that Yahweh was, in their minds, only as real as the other gods they were aware of. All of which the world pretty much accepts as not real.


This is also something that has irked me when they talk about how wonderful and all-powerful their god is. One inconvenient truth they love to ignore is that... according to their own mythology... even 1/3 of the heavenly host were able to be persueded by god's second-in-command to rebel against him. And they... unlike us poor humans who are supposed to rely on only faith... had undeniable proof of his existance.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: screwtape on January 18, 2013, 12:36:52 PM
Of course, the xians would probably counter with something along the lines of "They were single-mindedly focused on spiritual matters, and god provided everything they needed to flourish" or such similar rubbish.

Turns out that partnering with yhwh isn't a very good long term political/ economic strategy.  Since, you know, pretty much everyone in the middle east beat the shit out of the hebrews at one point or another and the Romans actually evicted them.

Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: Disciple of Sagan on January 18, 2013, 12:47:45 PM
Turns out that partnering with yhwh isn't a very good long term political/ economic strategy.  Since, you know, pretty much everyone in the middle east beat the shit out of the hebrews at one point or another and the Romans actually evicted them.

And to add insult to injury, the Romans called them atheists to boot fot not believing in their gods.

I guess persecution helps build moral fiber in the eyes of the lord. &)
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: The Gawd on January 18, 2013, 12:58:19 PM
Turns out that partnering with yhwh isn't a very good long term political/ economic strategy.  Since, you know, pretty much everyone in the middle east beat the shit out of the hebrews at one point or another and the Romans actually evicted them.

And to add insult to injury, the Romans called them atheists to boot fot not believing in their gods.

I guess persecution helps build moral fiber in the eyes of the lord. &)

Im pretty sure theres a verse talking about "Blessed is he who is persecuted" so when you point out these delusions it just confirms their beleifs. Sad part is they cant see through such a simple ploy to get them not to challenge themselves. It makes me cry inside  :'(
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: Jag on January 18, 2013, 01:51:26 PM
This is also something that has irked me when they talk about how wonderful and all-powerful their god is. One inconvenient truth they love to ignore is that... according to their own mythology... even 1/3 of the heavenly host were able to be persueded by god's second-in-command to rebel against him. And they... unlike us poor humans who are supposed to rely on only faith... had undeniable proof of his existance.

This is an excellent point, and one I've never used. I'm stealing this and using it every chance I get - I'm not worried about the whole "sin" nonsense, but I DO promise to credit you when I use it.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 02:57:36 PM
This is also something that has irked me when they talk about how wonderful and all-powerful their god is. One inconvenient truth they love to ignore is that... according to their own mythology... even 1/3 of the heavenly host were able to be persueded by god's second-in-command to rebel against him. And they... unlike us poor humans who are supposed to rely on only faith... had undeniable proof of his existance.

I'm curious as to what you are getting at here. I'm not sure I understand the point you are making with this. Thanks !!
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: naemhni on January 18, 2013, 03:01:08 PM
I'm curious as to what you are getting at here. I'm not sure I understand the point you are making with this. Thanks !!

The point is that these individuals knew, with 100% certainty, that there existed a being who was both omniscient and omnipotent (that is, Yahweh).  It's rather difficult to imagine these individuals rebelling against someone that they know they cannot defeat or even harm in the slightest.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: ParkingPlaces on January 18, 2013, 03:07:01 PM
This is also something that has irked me when they talk about how wonderful and all-powerful their god is. One inconvenient truth they love to ignore is that... according to their own mythology... even 1/3 of the heavenly host were able to be persueded by god's second-in-command to rebel against him. And they... unlike us poor humans who are supposed to rely on only faith... had undeniable proof of his existance.

I've asked the same question for some time. If Lucifer, who had direct knowledge of god, rebelled, how good is god at being perfect? If beings with direct knowledge of his existence can't stand the guy, why are some humans surprised when other humans say no?

Apparently even Lucifer knew that neither he nor god were real!
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: The Gawd on January 18, 2013, 04:59:10 PM
But is the "fall" of Lucifer actually even in the bible? I dont remember reading it, but do remember reading that it was actually in one of the books they voted out. This argument used to be my favorite one to use, but its like killing ants with a sledgehammer... kinda like the drinking poison verse.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 05:44:33 PM
The point is that these individuals knew, with 100% certainty, that there existed a being who was both omniscient and omnipotent (that is, Yahweh).  It's rather difficult to imagine these individuals rebelling against someone that they know they cannot defeat or even harm in the slightest.

Who's to say they know with 100% certainty?  Perhaps Satan believed he could overpower God. There could be any of a hundred reasons Satan made the decision he did.

I really don't see this as detrimental to the Christian belief.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: ParkingPlaces on January 18, 2013, 05:58:46 PM

Who's to say they know with 100% certainty?  Perhaps Satan believed he could overpower God. There could be any of a hundred reasons Satan made the decision he did.

I really don't see this as detrimental to the Christian belief.

Well, I suppose it is problem that angels have a religion based on an unseen lord too. Wouldn't be christian though. They're not going to die.

Wonder what incentivises them to believe? Bigger wings? Longer robes?
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: The Gawd on January 18, 2013, 06:13:05 PM
The point is that these individuals knew, with 100% certainty, that there existed a being who was both omniscient and omnipotent (that is, Yahweh).  It's rather difficult to imagine these individuals rebelling against someone that they know they cannot defeat or even harm in the slightest.

Who's to say they know with 100% certainty?  Perhaps Satan believed he could overpower God. There could be any of a hundred reasons Satan made the decision he did.

I really don't see this as detrimental to the Christian belief.
Really? This is silly at this point. The angels that had been chillin with Yahweh for all eternity either werent certain that he existed or that he was "omnimax" not to mention their very being qustions christian beliefs but none of this is a concern or inconsistant with your belief system? Is there nothing you wont overlook to stay a slave to this pitiful religion?
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 06:19:11 PM
Really? This is silly at this point. The angels that had been chillin with Yahweh for all eternity either werent certain that he existed or that he was "omnimax" not to mention their very being qustions christian beliefs but none of this is a concern or inconsistant with your belief system? Is there nothing you wont overlook to stay a slave to this pitiful religion?

What?? Except for the last question you asked, this makes no sense.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 06:21:25 PM
Well, I suppose it is problem that angels have a religion based on an unseen lord too. Wouldn't be christian though. They're not going to die.

Wonder what incentivises them to believe? Bigger wings? Longer robes?

Neither does this. What are you talking about?
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: Jag on January 18, 2013, 06:23:00 PM
The point is that these individuals knew, with 100% certainty, that there existed a being who was both omniscient and omnipotent (that is, Yahweh).  It's rather difficult to imagine these individuals rebelling against someone that they know they cannot defeat or even harm in the slightest.

Who's to say they know with 100% certainty?  Perhaps Satan believed he could overpower God. There could be any of a hundred reasons Satan made the decision he did.

I really don't see this as detrimental to the Christian belief.

With what can only be described as direct empirical evidence of the existence and power of the lord god almighty, they chose to rebel against him - and upon hearing this asked, you respond with that? Seriously? You don't need any time at all to think about it? You just rejected it out of hand with what amounts to"we can't know for sure what the angels, existing entirely in the presence of GOD, and witness to countless godly acts from literal creation forward, did or didn't know about him."

I find myself a bit disappointed - I was hoping for better from you.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: The Gawd on January 18, 2013, 06:28:26 PM
Really? This is silly at this point. The angels that had been chillin with Yahweh for all eternity either werent certain that he existed or that he was "omnimax" not to mention their very being qustions christian beliefs but none of this is a concern or inconsistant with your belief system? Is there nothing you wont overlook to stay a slave to this pitiful religion?

What?? Except for the last question you asked, this makes no sense.
LOL

Sure... You suggested that perhaps the "angels" did not know that either "Yahweh" existed OR that they did not know he was omnimax, and thus they rebelled. Yet these "angels" had been with Yahweh for all eternity. The suggestion shows that you will sink to unknown depths and absurdities to protect this nonsense. Not only that, the idea that youre suggesting again shows your god's imperfect and pretty pitiful track record for creation. If he existed he'd be the Mr. Magoo of creators... but of course youll come up with some excuse for such an obviously worthless diety (if he existed as his sheep describe him).
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 06:30:58 PM
I find myself a bit disappointed - I was hoping for better from you.

What were you hoping I would say?

Are you suggesting that you have answers to all of the questions that would validate your worldview?....because that is what I am inferring you expect from me.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 06:33:24 PM
Sure... You suggested that perhaps the "angels" did not know that either "Yahweh" existed OR that they did not know he was omnimax, and thus they rebelled.

Where did I suggest that the angels did not know God existed?? You need to go back in the thread to the post where the "100%" first came into the conversation because you are incorrectly following the conversation.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: The Gawd on January 18, 2013, 06:46:37 PM
No, you need to read again. You did not specify what the angels may not have been certain about, but that doesnt even matter because in either case your comment is absurd and embarrassing.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 06:47:38 PM
No, you need to read again. You did not specify what the angels may not have been certain about, but that doesnt even matter because in either case your comment is absurd and embarrassing.

&)
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: Jag on January 18, 2013, 06:49:31 PM
I find myself a bit disappointed - I was hoping for better from you.

What were you hoping I would say?

Are you suggesting that you have answers to all of the questions that would validate your worldview?....because that is what I am inferring you expect from me.

That's the danger in reading too much into a simple statement isn't it?

Perhaps I should withdraw the word hoping from my statement; it may have been misleading. In truth, I'm not sure that I could say I had any expectation of what you would say - I had no idea that you were going to participate in this thread. I was disappointed in the abrupt dismissal of your response I guess - it appeared to be pretty off-the-cuff, and shallow. Based on the posts of yours I've read so far, I'm disappointed that you were so dismissive in your reply, and in the follow up posts that you appear to be deliberately misunderstanding - maybe I'm not being fair to you, but that was my honest reaction.

I was hoping for a little more depth, for lack of a better descriptive word. No, I certainly DON'T possess all the answers to any question that could potentially challenge my world view, and I admit it freely. I even welcome the questions! The day I decide I know enough, much less ALL, is the day I sincerely hope my loved ones end my life, because I will have sunk so deep into dementia, there would be no hope of me ever returning.

Edited to add: I realized after posting that you didn't say "challenge" my world view, you said "validate". My answer may not be pertinent if I misunderstood what you were saying.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: Jag on January 18, 2013, 06:53:34 PM
Are you suggesting that you have answers to all of the questions that would validate your worldview?....because that is what I am inferring you expect from me.

If you didn't think you had an answer, then why did you post one? Now I'm actually a bit confused - can you clarify your question please?
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 06:54:53 PM
I find myself a bit disappointed - I was hoping for better from you.

What were you hoping I would say?

Are you suggesting that you have answers to all of the questions that would validate your worldview?....because that is what I am inferring you expect from me.

I was hoping for a little more depth, for lack of a better descriptive word.

The Bible offers very little information about what the circumstances were or what specifically motivated Satan to rebel.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: Jag on January 18, 2013, 06:57:02 PM
And that also raises no questions for you?
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 06:57:41 PM
Are you suggesting that you have answers to all of the questions that would validate your worldview?....because that is what I am inferring you expect from me.

If you didn't think you had an answer, then why did you post one? Now I'm actually a bit confused - can you clarify your question please?

Which question are you referring to?
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: Jag on January 18, 2013, 07:01:05 PM
It's getting hard to take you seriously.

How many questions do you see in the quote box citing you? I only see one. That's the one I'm referring to, the one in the quote box that cites your question.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 07:02:02 PM
And that also raises no questions for you?

We all have questions that cannot be answered with respect to our beliefs, but that doesn't mean we should simply abandon them because of it.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: naemhni on January 18, 2013, 07:16:18 PM
The point is that these individuals knew, with 100% certainty, that there existed a being who was both omniscient and omnipotent (that is, Yahweh).  It's rather difficult to imagine these individuals rebelling against someone that they know they cannot defeat or even harm in the slightest.

Who's to say they know with 100% certainty?

How could they not?  Yahweh is supposed to be the creator of everything that exists, including the ones who were supposedly contemplating rebellion.  For the rebels not to be certain about the situation they were in would be like Stephen Hawking thinking that he could win a fistfight with Mike Tyson.  Hawking would never think such a thing; it would, indeed, be so obvious to him that it would simply never even occur to him to think about it.

Quote
Perhaps Satan believed he could overpower God.

Perhaps Hawking believed he could overpower Tyson.  (See how ridiculous the analogy is?)

Quote
There could be any of a hundred reasons Satan made the decision he did.

The only ones I can think of, within the framework of the mythology, are either that Satan is indescribably stupid, or he is extremely mentally ill (that is, completely out of touch with reality).  Nothing else makes sense to me.

Quote
I really don't see this as detrimental to the Christian belief.

Obviously, or you wouldn't be a Christian.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 07:17:14 PM
It's getting hard to take you seriously.

How many questions do you see in the quote box citing you? I only see one. That's the one I'm referring to, the one in the quote box that cites your question.

You're not following the conversation correctly. My first post asked what the point of the initial comment about Satan's rebellion was. I never posited that I had THE answer nor even implied it. At best, I offered speculation as to what the circumstances were and that was rather clear. No one has yet offered a good reason for giving any weight to the comments made in the last paragraph of post #3.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 07:23:57 PM
The point is that these individuals knew, with 100% certainty, that there existed a being who was both omniscient and omnipotent (that is, Yahweh).  It's rather difficult to imagine these individuals rebelling against someone that they know they cannot defeat or even harm in the slightest.

Who's to say they know with 100% certainty?

How could they not?  Yahweh is supposed to be the creator of everything that exists, including the ones who were supposedly contemplating rebellion.  For the rebels not to be certain about the situation they were in would be like Stephen Hawking thinking that he could win a fistfight with Mike Tyson.  Hawking would never think such a thing; it would, indeed, be so obvious to him that it would simply never even occur to him to think about it.


Your analogy actually makes a very good argument for the speculation I offered. Using your thought process, it would seem to make more sense that they did not know they were incapable of over powering God. I am puzzled as to why you are so convinced they had to know they were defeated before they rebelled. What specifically compels you to believe they had to know this?
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: naemhni on January 18, 2013, 07:33:21 PM
Using your thought process, it would seem to make more sense that they did not know they were incapable of over powering God. I am puzzled as to why you are so convinced they had to know they were defeated before they rebelled. What specifically compels you to believe they had to know this?

They knew Yahweh was omnipotent.  That being the case, the thought of rebellion should never have even entered their minds, anymore than it would enter your mind to visit the wreck of the Titanic by swimming to the bottom of the ocean.  Such a course of action is so completely and utterly impossible that you would, quite literally, never even think of it.  Unless, as I said, you were extremely mentally ill.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 07:39:13 PM
They knew Yahweh was omnipotent. 

Why do you continue to insist on this without explaining why you are so certain that "they knew?" Why is not possible that they were unaware of God's omnipotence?
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: naemhni on January 18, 2013, 07:47:28 PM
They knew Yahweh was omnipotent. 

Why do you continue to insist on this without explaining why you are so certain that "they knew?" Why is not possible that they were unaware of God's omnipotence?

What makes you think that it was possible they were unaware of it?  After all, it's blindingly obvious to you, a mere mortal.  So much so that it probably never even occurs to you to wonder whether there is anything Yahweh can't do.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: BibleStudent on January 18, 2013, 08:37:22 PM
What makes you think that it was possible they were unaware of it?  After all, it's blindingly obvious to you, a mere mortal.  So much so that it probably never even occurs to you to wonder whether there is anything Yahweh can't do.

Should I take that to mean you have no answer to the question I asked?
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: Nam on January 19, 2013, 01:04:54 AM
BibleStudent,

You can't be this stupid. Or perhaps you can. The only one making sense to you is you. Which is sad, and a bit pathetic. I mean, here we have angels who, seemingly, have been with god for countless years yet they seem to have less information than humans do.

Idiotic.

-Nam
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: Disciple of Sagan on January 19, 2013, 03:05:47 AM
This is also something that has irked me when they talk about how wonderful and all-powerful their god is. One inconvenient truth they love to ignore is that... according to their own mythology... even 1/3 of the heavenly host were able to be persueded by god's second-in-command to rebel against him. And they... unlike us poor humans who are supposed to rely on only faith... had undeniable proof of his existance.

I'm curious as to what you are getting at here. I'm not sure I understand the point you are making with this. Thanks !!

Hey, BibleStudent. While others in my absence have already answered your question more succinctly than perhaps I can manage at the moment (just got home from work... 1:30 am here... and already feeling a nice buzz from a shot of NyQuil), I'll give it a shot.

In a nutshell, I find it difficult to reconcile the notion of a supreme, perfect creator deserving of both adoration and worship when right from the get-go, your god was being disobeyed by and rebelled against by his own creations, (i.e. lucifer/satan, 1/3 of the angels and Adam and Eve who... just as myself, pianodwarf and others have stated... had direct evidence of god and his omnipotence. He created the whole universe and everything in it after all).

From a purely psychological point of view, these previously-mentioned entities... and every other human being who had direct knowledge of god's existance and what he commanded of them (remember, in the OT he was constantly interfering in human affairs)... would have to be insane or suicidal to risk his divine wrath. It just doesn't make sense. Add the "fact" that 99.999999% of the world population was so "wicked"... even after being given a warning to repent... that god felt the need to commit genocide either points to 1) the ultimate mental disconnect in our species' history for ignoring the blatantly "obvious" (i.e. god's existance and omnipotence), 2) your god was never as wonderful or worthy of worship as your bible led you to believe, or 3) it's all nothing more than mythology.

Hope this clarifies things. Have a good night.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: naemhni on January 19, 2013, 07:56:46 AM
Should I take that to mean you have no answer to the question I asked?

I've already given you one: it's common knowledge that Yahweh is omnimax.  To suggest that Satan and all of his followers did not know that is simply silly at best and disingenuous at worst.  I'm not sure which one you're being right now.
Title: Re: Noah built a space ark...
Post by: Jag on January 19, 2013, 11:01:09 AM
You're not following the conversation correctly.

No BibleStudent, that's not at all how I see it.

What I DO see is that you are establishing a pattern: I ask you a question, you respond with a question WITHOUT answering what I asked you; I answer your new question, followed by asking the initial question again; you still avoid answering the initial question - see our exchanges in the "Why I raised my kids without God" thread for an example what I'm referring to, or just look at your posts in this thread. In case you are unclear on how conversations work, let me tell you now, we're not having one. The behavior I describe looks like it applies to every person with whom you're engaging.

I'm asking you very clear and simple questions, you're pretending that you don't understand, and I'm not taking you seriously anymore. If you can't engage with the least little shred of authenticity, why bother even posting?

And to be clear, obvious, and fair: I don't expect or want an answer to that last question. In case you're confused by that simple statement - I'm saying I'm not actually interested in why you bother posting, so don't waste any time or energy posting a non-answer or asking for clarity, because I've lost all interest in trying to engage with you on any level of intellectual honesty - you seem only interested in dodging, and we already have Wayne for that. I sincerely hope that's clear enough for you to understand.