whywontgodhealamputees.com

Information Zone => Forum Announcements => Topic started by: HAL on December 14, 2012, 12:47:39 PM

Title: An Invitation
Post by: HAL on December 14, 2012, 12:47:39 PM
The following message was approved by the current Admins ...

You are invited to register at my forum - The Atheist Think Tank, in case this forum goes down again temporarily or even permanently. At least bookmark it just in case. It may not be your cup of tea but you can at least meet there and use it to make other plans. We even have a few religious nutters from time to time.  ;)

http://www.atheistthinktank.net/thinktank/index.php
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: Garja on December 14, 2012, 01:54:10 PM
It has been a great substitute... Now an additive.
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: wright on December 14, 2012, 04:29:46 PM
Thanks, HAL. Bookmarked.
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: Graybeard on December 14, 2012, 07:33:27 PM
There's a real live Christian being fed to the lions right now :thumbsup: Go across and register, then bookmark; it's like the hidden room. A lot of old faces and many new ones.
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: Emily on December 14, 2012, 07:37:19 PM
There's a real live Christian being fed to the lions right now :thumbsup: Go across and register, then bookmark; it's like the hidden room. A lot of old faces and many new ones.

Oh boy, a real live christian feeding. I'm going to watch. Who is it? Baby Zak? He seems to really hate Hatter.
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: Graybeard on December 14, 2012, 07:41:19 PM
Baby zax's a she, and she smote me 5 times! (Battlescars)
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: none on December 14, 2012, 07:49:11 PM
The following message was approved by the current Admins ...

You are invited to register at my forum - The Atheist Think Tank, in case this forum goes down again temporarily or even permanently. At least bookmark it just in case. It may not be your cup of tea but you can at least meet there and use it to make other plans. We even have a few religious nutters from time to time.  ;)

http://www.atheistthinktank.net/thinktank/index.php
what about fucked up haz beens? do you forgive them?
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: Emily on December 14, 2012, 07:50:00 PM
Baby zax's a she, and she smote me 5 times! (Battlescars)

She definitely seems to love that button.
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: Nam on December 15, 2012, 02:46:18 PM
Is it more active now? I spent more time at IGI 'cause it wasn't too active. Talking to the same handful of people isn't fun for me.

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: LoriPinkAngel on December 15, 2012, 02:51:05 PM
Would I survive on that site?
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: Nam on December 15, 2012, 02:54:11 PM
If I can, anyone can. (Of course they did ban me for life once but it was all just in fun ;))

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: Garja on December 15, 2012, 11:54:44 PM
Would I survive on that site?

I think you would be fine Lori.  Its a lot of the same people from around here.
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: none on December 16, 2012, 12:00:34 AM
not all though....
Title: Re: An Invitation, or a 5-day ticking time bomb, you choose.
Post by: Chronos on January 09, 2014, 12:41:29 AM
To add to the OP, we should consider alternate ways to communicate or discuss topics for this forum while achieving a few other things at the same time (hopefully).

This forum has a habit of breaking down due to a lack of maintenance and care of the owner. For that and a few other reasons we had used the Atheist Think Tank (http://www.atheistthinktank.net/thinktank/index.php) forum as a backup communication system. Due to the upcoming renewal for that URL/forum, the apparent lack of anyone willing to take over/manage that site, and the low traffic it has been getting, it will likely disappear and we need an alternative.

Additionally, on occasion we have complained about the difficulty in attracting new members or keeping old ones. Some people have left because they found the rules here to be too rigid or the discussion too tough or inflexible, and others exercised their time on these topics and wished to expand to new ones. We each have our own reasons for reading and discussing what we like, but we also have reasons to maintain the links to those members we know and understand well. We get where they are coming from, why they say what they say and we know how to weigh the thoughts and opinions. Consequently, we need to enhance our forum communication, upgrade our presence on the web and complement our efforts in discussing WWGHA, reason, rationality, etc.

I think the reddit website provides many ways for us to do this while also freeing us from the lack of system support this site has suffered for years. In order to test how a subreddit may work for us, I have created a new one here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/WWGHA/

The creation of this subreddit is not meant to usurp this forum in any way, but rather allow us to experiment with newer ways of doing things. The WWGHA forum has been around since 2005 (a different domain name was used at that time), and 9 years on the internet is a very long time to keep doing things in the same way. The rest of the internet agrees. Web forums are becoming increasingly less popular ways to communicate and share ideas because other methods like Facebook, Google+, Twitter, Disqus and Reddit are performing those functions better, faster and with more exposure.

With the power of subreddits, we can even make a subreddit that is restricted to forum members here or to other reddit members we like. The subreddit I created happens to be public and available to all. It is merely a starting point, not a completely packaged alternative.

I encourage each of you to make an account on reddit (if you don't already have one), test out how it works, subscribe to the subreddit above, lurk around a bit in other subreddits (if you care to do so). Furthermore, something that I just noticed is that the WWGHA domain expires on January 14, 2014 and who knows if it is setup for automatic renewal? If so, who knows if the attached credit card has been updated with the new expiration date? Does that credit card still exist? This site has gone down before due to a lack of proper renewal and could take weeks to return to service, if at all.

(http://i.imgur.com/P6Y6rTE.png)

You should at least sign up for reddit and subscribe to the subreddit just in case we cannot communicate here. We may have to bug out at any time.

Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: Traveler on January 09, 2014, 12:46:19 AM
I don't know the first thing about reddit, but I suppose this is as good an excuse as any to try it. Thanks for trying to hold the community together in case of a zombie apocalypse.  ;)
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: Chronos on January 09, 2014, 12:50:56 AM
This blog post is a good demonstration that there is more to reddit then what you see on the front page:

http://www.refinethemind.com/37-mind-expanding-subreddits/

Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: Nam on January 09, 2014, 12:54:20 AM
I actually prefer atheist think tank to this place but for some reason that place runs slow on my phone so I'm here. IGI seems more of a text gaming site than anything else so I rarely go there anymore.

Someone should create a new wwgha with articles, videos, perhaps even blogs with a discussion forum, figure out a way for the topics/comments (through the legalities of copyright issues) be transfered there, or limit it to a beta site, have regular members here (atheist/religious) and a few "guests" build that website, and then open it to the public. Have a Facebook/YouTube page linked for advertising etc.,

I'm on a phone, I can't do much of anything. I could donate money, or write articles (written them before but on "critiquing" not atheism), or what not but that's much as I can do right now.

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation
Post by: Chronos on January 09, 2014, 01:08:48 AM
There are separate apps for mobile devices to access and post to Reddit, in particular, whereas forum software doesn't offer much of anything for mobile devices.

I have a Lumia 928 (WindowsPhone) and I use BaconIt to access Reddit.

Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: HAL on January 09, 2014, 08:19:46 AM
It's true, I'm going to close my forum, due to inactivity, not to mention I just have too many other things on my plate right now. This domain expires on Jan 14, and I hope for the people who participate here, that the owner renews it. As you can see, the forum software is still running a release candidate version so that's risky as well. It's only a matter of time before it crashes. If it does manage to survive, I'll just hang out here because it's paid for and I don't have to do any work.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 09, 2014, 12:43:15 PM
There are separate apps for mobile devices to access and post to Reddit, in particular, whereas forum software doesn't offer much of anything for mobile devices.

I have a Lumia 928 (WindowsPhone) and I use BaconIt to access Reddit.



I've been to reddit before, it's not my kind of place. I guess I'll look for another "home" or go back to an old one.

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Traveler on January 09, 2014, 12:48:25 PM
I actually agree with nam on this one. I played around with it yesterday and I find it a royal pain in the ass. I doubt very much that I'd hang out there longer than it would take to find a new forum. In my opinion it is not at all a replacement for a dedicated discussion forum.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 09, 2014, 01:04:04 PM
I actually agree with nam on this one. I played around with it yesterday and I find it a royal pain in the ass. I doubt very much that I'd hang out there longer than it would take to find a new forum. In my opinion it is not at all a replacement for a dedicated discussion forum.

I'm telling you: you have enough people here, if they came together, to create a new website as I outline or similar; and that way they never would have to deal with Brain and his constant absence again.

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Chronos on January 09, 2014, 01:18:49 PM
Reddit is a different tool, for sure, but one that doesn't require us to really do anything. No money, no technical know how, just use it -- that's a major selling point. It's also flexible so that if one person leaves the entire community doesn't have to shut down. The installation of forum software is quite the opposite: money, know-how, time, updates, frustrations, bleh.

I'm not sure what you found that was a pain in the ass, but you may be looking at extra features that you don't need or extra locations on reddit that you may never want to visit. Like anything new, it takes a few tries to become accustomed; otherwise, it is a very similar experience.

Simply setting up a forum in a new location will not attract people, just ask HAL. The book and the name sells this place and without either you've got nothing. To try to go to a new domain is to recreate the wheel. I'm only suggesting that we get new tires.

Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 09, 2014, 01:31:37 PM
Reddit is a different tool, for sure, but one that doesn't require us to really do anything. No money, no technical know how, just use it -- that's a major selling point. It's also flexible so that if one person leaves the entire community doesn't have to shut down. The installation of forum software is quite the opposite: money, know-how, time, updates, frustrations, bleh.

I'm not sure what you found that was a pain in the ass, but you may be looking at extra features that you don't need or extra locations on reddit that you may never want to visit. Like anything new, it takes a few tries to become accustomed; otherwise, it is a very similar experience.

Simply setting up a forum in a new location will not attract people, just ask HAL. The book and the name sells this place and without either you've got nothing. To try to go to a new domain is to recreate the wheel. I'm only suggesting that we get new tires.



There are many websites like reddit but it's not a "community" in the sense that this place is, or other places like it.

I think Hal's place failed for two main reasons, and Hal can correct me: 1. Most of the members there came from here. When this website crashed in 2008, new websites popped up (att, igi, happyatheist[1]) and they ran quite well, some still do but then wwgha came back online and most came back here 2. Hal closed att in 2011 which made his "regulars" go somewhere else and when he reopened it no one really came back. I also think a couple of other things may have attributed but I think those are the two main things.

-Nam
 1. I think
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Traveler on January 09, 2014, 02:31:03 PM
What nam said about community.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 09, 2014, 02:45:12 PM
What nam said about community.

I have allpoetry.com to fall back on, the boards there have drastically changed over the years (probably why I went looking for another place) but it's a huge website and I still know many there, some miss me which I find sad based on the type of guy I am or perhaps they miss my critiques rather than me--who knows? But some here may not have a "community" to fall back on and, it seems, those who should care: don't. Which is also sad.

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Chronos on January 09, 2014, 03:35:14 PM
There are many websites like reddit but it's not a "community" in the sense that this place is, or other places like it.
...
I have allpoetry.com to fall back on, the boards there have drastically changed over the years (probably why I went looking for another place) but it's a huge website and I still know many there

Many people do not think of a web forum as a community, others ridicule Facebook as not being a community. Others find it impossible to think of NYC as a community and consider a place like Ottumwa, Iowa to be a true community. You define community as you see fit where you need it. As you have pointed out, even a huge website can be a community. If reddit isn't for you, that's fine. Thousands of others find it works well for them and those same people would feel walled-in with a forum like this.


My view is that this domain is a sinking ship and I'm tossing down an inflatable raft for people to ride back to shore to find Gilligan or a genie in a bottle, wherever that may be. When life hands you lemons, make lemonade ...


Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: HAL on January 09, 2014, 03:52:15 PM
This domain might auto-renew on a saved credit card, but it also might not. You got a few days before you find out.

I think Hal's place failed for two main reasons, and Hal can correct me: 1. Most of the members there came from here. When this website crashed in 2008, new websites popped up (att, igi, happyatheist[1]) and they ran quite well, some still do but then wwgha came back online and most came back here 2. Hal closed att in 2011 which made his "regulars" go somewhere else and when he reopened it no one really came back. I also think a couple of other things may have attributed but I think those are the two main things.
 1. I think

Pretty much right.

Thing is, there's so much more on the Internets now than in 2008, people have so many more choices of where to go. Even the people who run the SMF forum say downloads of SMF are down. There's FB, Twitter, Reddit, on and on, and so many forums it's crazy. Plus I've been dealing with my mother's health since last Aug and I haven't had any desire to post on my own forum. That's pretty bad. I also have several new hobbies too and I just don't have time for the forum any more. I also have nothing new to say, I'm just spent. I need to just close it soon and move on.

I plan to come here from time to time, because I have no responsibilities here and it won't cost me anything, but it won't be to add anything new. It'll be purely entertainment - nothing more.

So if anyone has any posts they want to copy from ATT, I'd suggest you go look them up before it's gone forever. This time there will be no resurrection of ATT.

Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 09, 2014, 04:30:04 PM
This domain might auto-renew on a saved credit card, but it also might not. You got a few days before you find out.

I think Hal's place failed for two main reasons, and Hal can correct me: 1. Most of the members there came from here. When this website crashed in 2008, new websites popped up (att, igi, happyatheist[1]) and they ran quite well, some still do but then wwgha came back online and most came back here 2. Hal closed att in 2011 which made his "regulars" go somewhere else and when he reopened it no one really came back. I also think a couple of other things may have attributed but I think those are the two main things.
 1. I think

Pretty much right.

Thing is, there's so much more on the Internets now than in 2008, people have so many more choices of where to go. Even the people who run the SMF forum say downloads of SMF are down. There's FB, Twitter, Reddit, on and on, and so many forums it's crazy. Plus I've been dealing with my mother's health since last Aug and I haven't had any desire to post on my own forum. That's pretty bad. I also have several new hobbies too and I just don't have time for the forum any more. I also have nothing new to say, I'm just spent. I need to just close it soon and move on.

I plan to come here from time to time, because I have no responsibilities here and it won't cost me anything, but it won't be to add anything new. It'll be purely entertainment - nothing more.

So if anyone has any posts they want to copy from ATT, I'd suggest you go look them up before it's gone forever. This time there will be no resurrection of ATT.



Too bad you can't hand it over to Kimberly, perhaps find a tech guy to maintain it, or you. Once I got back on a PC I was going to go back but my phone just runs slow there. IGI, either but as I stated above: that seems more like a "gaming" site with all the "on-going" gamelike topics they have. Take that away, and I bet that place would be more like att now.

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Chronos on January 09, 2014, 05:49:08 PM
Thing is, there's so much more on the Internets now than in 2008, people have so many more choices of where to go.

The internet used to be silos of information (site pages, blogs and forums) from one domain to the next, but things have changed dramatically in the past 5 years. The web tools available have turned the internet into matrices of information (the cross-referencing and integration of topics, sites, users, etc). While blogs and forums still exist, I think forums will continue to shrink until they serve only a core audience that eschews change or highly specialized audiences such as product support, blocked content (ie porn) or topics where the web interests of the users are quite narrow, maybe people who are Jeep fanatics or NFL fans. Atheism, or any topic on religion, is not sufficiently specialized to allow a forum to grow, and it's too generic to resist the cross-referencing of the internet tools at hand.

Given the decrease of installations of forum software, any community will have to change to fit the tools of the day. Some of these tools, like Facebook and Google+, make it plain that they do not want anonymity (though it can be forced if required), and consequently some of the things discussed on those sites are limited due to that lack of anonymity.

There are older incarnations of tools that people used to gather and share, such as Google Groups:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/wwgha

However, since Google is pushing Google+ and since Google+ has Communities which are intended to replace Google Groups at some point, what is the point of creating or continuing in a Google Group if Communities are the way to go?
https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/117800767173909228802

Nevertheless, we do have representation on both Google incarnations of communities. These have not been used because the forum has continued to work, but we also complain that we aren't getting enough hits, memberships, visitor emails, etc. As HAL said, one of these days Brain is just going to give up on this domain. I don't think Sam Harris expected Brain to keep it open forever just because it was referenced in Harris' book, and more over, Harris referenced the book not the forum. If there wasn't a book titled WWGHA with YouTube videos uploaded in the early days of that popular site, this forum would look like a desert. Brain happened to capitalize on the right tools for the time; those tools have not matured and morphed along with the rest of the web.

This is why I have suggested that we find another place to go when this place goes to hell and never comes back. Creating another domain and installing forum software and expecting people to populate it will be like throwing money and time down a hole.

If the other alternatives are not for you, certainly that's your choice to go and do things elsewhere. If the other alternatives do not provide the possibility of creating communities, then perhaps your time on the web has passed. The web gurus have decided that this is the way to go.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Traveler on January 09, 2014, 06:24:40 PM
I think places like reddit might very well turn out to be viable. There will certainly be changes, some of which will be turnover in membership as folks who like a centralized, anonymous community drift away. On the other hand, it might grow as the group is exposed to more visitors. I have other forums I can visit, some of which have very active communities. My opinion is if we're not renewed you should go ahead. I'll probably give it a try for awhile.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: HAL on January 09, 2014, 07:17:37 PM
While blogs and forums still exist, I think forums will continue to shrink until they serve only a core audience that eschews change or highly specialized audiences such as product support, blocked content (ie porn) or topics where the web interests of the users are quite narrow, maybe people who are Jeep fanatics or NFL fans. Atheism, or any topic on religion, is not sufficiently specialized to allow a forum to grow, and it's too generic to resist the cross-referencing of the internet tools at hand.

Agreed. I can barely imagine starting a new forum. The work I put into ATT was tremendous and that was back in the day, so to speak. Now? I just can't see it.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 09, 2014, 07:30:58 PM
While blogs and forums still exist, I think forums will continue to shrink until they serve only a core audience that eschews change or highly specialized audiences such as product support, blocked content (ie porn) or topics where the web interests of the users are quite narrow, maybe people who are Jeep fanatics or NFL fans. Atheism, or any topic on religion, is not sufficiently specialized to allow a forum to grow, and it's too generic to resist the cross-referencing of the internet tools at hand.

Agreed. I can barely imagine starting a new forum. The work I put into ATT was tremendous and that was back in the day, so to speak. Now? I just can't see it.

You're just old.

:P

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: HAL on January 09, 2014, 07:43:41 PM
You're just old.

That hurt Nam. That really hurt.  :(
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 09, 2014, 08:41:52 PM
You're just old.

That hurt Nam. That really hurt.  :(

Should be a comma after the first "hurt". ;)

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: HAL on January 09, 2014, 08:54:19 PM
Should be a comma after the first "hurt". ;)

That hurt, Nam. That really hurt.  :(
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Anfauglir on January 10, 2014, 05:04:25 AM
This is why I have suggested that we find another place to go when this place goes to hell and never comes back. Creating another domain and installing forum software and expecting people to populate it will be like throwing money and time down a hole.

Question.  If Brain does not renew the domain, I presume that anyone else can purchase it?

If that is the case, is it technically possible to dump all the forum information somewhere, then restore it to whatever ISP is used to take ownership of the whywontgodhealamputees.com address?
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: HAL on January 10, 2014, 08:02:24 AM

Question.  If Brain does not renew the domain, I presume that anyone else can purchase it?

The name, yes.

Quote
If that is the case, is it technically possible to dump all the forum information somewhere, then restore it to whatever ISP is used to take ownership of the whywontgodhealamputees.com address?

No. You will not get anything in the hosting directory. That does not come with buying a domain name. They are two different entities. You cannot obtain this website and it's database. :(
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Anfauglir on January 10, 2014, 08:05:52 AM
If that is the case, is it technically possible to dump all the forum information somewhere, then restore it to whatever ISP is used to take ownership of the whywontgodhealamputees.com address?

No. You will not get anything in the hosting directory. That does not come with buying a domain name. They are two different entities. You cannot obtain this website and it's database. :(

That wasn't my question though.  I am aware that all the forum information will remain on the original ISP servers (until they delete it) and doesn't come with the name.

What I was asking was the viability of backing up the forum to a hard drive, then restoring that backup to a new ISP, post-transfer of the name?
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: HAL on January 10, 2014, 08:16:22 AM
What I was asking was the viability of backing up the forum to a hard drive, then restoring that backup to a new ISP, post-transfer of the name?

The only way for us to do it would be from the Admin panel, and that just doesn't work for large forums (just ask the experts at the SMF forum). It will hang and won't finish. It shouldn't even be there but they leave it as an option. Backups have to be done via the Cpanel area which we can't get to. And that would just be the database - not the forum files. It would be a messy thing to try and get set up again. Besides - who says you have the right to copy this database and do what you want with it? You'd be asking for legal trouble and the other side has lot's of cash for lawyering up.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: HAL on January 10, 2014, 08:39:31 AM
Look at the stats, 2013 was the lowest full year of new topics and new posts since the forum was started in 2008. The subject matter of the webpages is stale and never updated. This place is dieing. It ain't dead, but it's dieing off.

Year       New Topics     New Posts
 2013    1837               52205
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: shnozzola on January 10, 2014, 09:44:43 AM
Besides - who says you have the right to copy this database and do what you want with it? You'd be asking for legal trouble and the other side has lot's of cash for lawyering up.

That's the question I had.  When a person posts here, who owns that post?  An enterprising young (?) fellow, say Marshall Brain, may be  collecting all of Kcrady's posts to include in a bestselling book arguing against religion - the intellect here for the debate and for making money off this debate probably started collecting posts years ago.  It would be interesting to see 2 or 3 books come out at the same time with debates from this website and watch the legal fireworks.

edit:  by the way, thank you Chronos, for thinking ahead and doing something.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 10, 2014, 10:08:02 AM
What I was asking was the viability of backing up the forum to a hard drive, then restoring that backup to a new ISP, post-transfer of the name?

The only way for us to do it would be from the Admin panel, and that just doesn't work for large forums (just ask the experts at the SMF forum). It will hang and won't finish. It shouldn't even be there but they leave it as an option. Backups have to be done via the Cpanel area which we can't get to. And that would just be the database - not the forum files. It would be a messy thing to try and get set up again. Besides - who says you have the right to copy this database and do what you want with it? You'd be asking for legal trouble and the other side has lot's of cash for lawyering up.

Yeah, copyright issues.

Technically, the content (even comments made though also belonging to the comment owner) is owned by Brain. It's like having to get permission to publish something that one has already published elsewhere (excepting free content domains); one either has to source and/or pay a fee to do so, or get permission from the initial source. I believe, I've been out of the game for a few years.

But with Brain's constant absence there could be a good challenge made.

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 10, 2014, 10:12:08 AM
Besides - who says you have the right to copy this database and do what you want with it? You'd be asking for legal trouble and the other side has lot's of cash for lawyering up.

That's the question I had.  When a person posts here, who owns that post?  An enterprising young (?) fellow, say Marshall Brain, may be  collecting all of Kcrady's posts to include in a bestselling book arguing against religion - the intellect here for the debate and for making money off this debate probably started collecting posts years ago.  It would be interesting to see 2 or 3 books come out at the same time with debates from this website and watch the legal fireworks.

edit:  by the way, thank you Chronos, for thinking ahead and doing something.

No, he'd have to get permission from anyone to use their words. He owns the content of the website, we own our comments but if we posted our words here elsewhere we'd have to source it, I believe.

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Mrjason on January 10, 2014, 11:24:03 AM
Fair point screwtape
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: screwtape on January 10, 2014, 11:35:35 AM
Let's please not hatch plans to take over Brain's IP on Brain's website.  Thanks.

He's an absent and neglectful owner, but he lets us play on his property for free.  We owe him that much respect, at least.





Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Chronos on January 10, 2014, 02:32:50 PM
Yeah, copyright issues.

Technically, the content (even comments made though also belonging to the comment owner) is owned by Brain.

Not quite.

Brain didn't generate the posts and he doesn't own the concepts or expressions inside of them; however, he could make a claim to owning the format of the expressions when published in the form of a forum especially with the order of replies as they occurred. He can take a snapshot of a thread as it occurred and publish it in a book. None of us could make any claim to his snapshot of our chats as being either plagiarism or an act of copyright infringement; however, he cannot assemble all of Kcrady's responses as "The Best of Kcrady" and publish them for profit (he could publish them at no cost). Only Kcrady could assemble all of his posts into a book or website and charge for it.

In other words, Brain's copyright only extends to the manner in which the thoughts were expressed, but not the thoughts themselves or even the very sentences that were written.

It's like having to get permission to publish something that one has already published elsewhere (excepting free content domains); one either has to source and/or pay a fee to do so, or get permission from the initial source. I believe, I've been out of the game for a few years.

Yes, Brain has to get permission to publish the posts elsewhere because they would be out of context from the original publication.

But with Brain's constant absence there could be a good challenge made.

Brain certainly would claim copyright to his book and videos, but I really doubt that Brain would ever stake a claim of copyright to anything that appears in this forum.

Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Chronos on January 10, 2014, 02:38:30 PM
Question.  If Brain does not renew the domain, I presume that anyone else can purchase it?

Yes, or maybe. Some domain providers have a grace period in which they let the owner come back and fix things, others don't.

The most famous example occurred in 2008? when Microsoft forgot to renew the domain for Hotmail.com (midnight Pacific time) and a user in Australia went online to claim it, paid for it using his personal credit card and within an hour the domain was reactivated and he could access his Hotmail account again. I think it took 2 weeks before Microsoft realized what happened, and they weren't thankful to the guy.

If Brain fails to renew the domain anyone can go get it within the rules of commerce, and then point the domain to wherever he/she thinks it should go.

Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Emily on January 11, 2014, 12:19:20 AM
Well, since the topic of the closure of ATT and expiration of WWGHA, I'd like to say that I have the hosting space available. I already (and I hope I didn't go behind HAL's back) set up a very minimal alternative to ATT on my server, with a forum and a simple home page. If for some reason this forum does close down on January 14th, I'd be willing to shell out the money for another domain. It only cost me 10 bucks for a year for the alternative to ATT that I created. I also have 15 databases available, so aside from a forum we could do something else that's database driven.

We can all get together and think of really cool topics and whatnot for it. Just a suggestion in case this place takes a shit in the coming days. I know web design so I could design the site, or if someone else would like to I could create an FTP user account and give them access to the directory.

E-mail me at: emily.nicole.costello@gmail.com if anyone would like too, or go to the test forum (http://atheistthinktank.org/forum/index.php) I made for HALs site when he plans on taking it down. There you guys can collaborate on an idea and whatnot.

Just tossing out a suggestion.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 11, 2014, 12:00:27 PM
Emily,

Approve me! Approve me!

:P

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: G-Roll on January 11, 2014, 06:32:13 PM
I miss ATT. That site is blocked (I am a bad person who posts from work) so I can't get to it anymore. Kinda sucks to see it die.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: HAL on January 11, 2014, 07:09:48 PM
I miss ATT. That site is blocked (I am a bad person who posts from work) so I can't get to it anymore. Kinda sucks to see it die.

Someone is trying to save it as we speak ...
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 11, 2014, 07:17:42 PM
I miss ATT. That site is blocked (I am a bad person who posts from work) so I can't get to it anymore. Kinda sucks to see it die.

Someone is trying to save it as we speak ...

She won't approve me. :'( It's okay. I wouldn't "approve" me, either. ;)

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Emily on January 11, 2014, 08:53:43 PM
Ha, I did. But I already broke it messing around with some sql. But for all interesting, the new link is this (http://atheistthinktank.org/forums/index.php)
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: LoriPinkAngel on January 11, 2014, 09:11:50 PM
I get a 404 error when I try to access the link both from here & from ATT.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Traveler on January 11, 2014, 09:27:12 PM
I get a 404 error when I try to access the link both from here & from ATT.

Me too.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Emily on January 11, 2014, 09:31:34 PM
Yeah, I really don't know what I'm doing when I've been up since 3 in the morning. It's not 9:30.  :( Plus I was just testing around with some things. I promise I'll stop. This should work.

http://atheistthinktank.org/forum/index.php

Again, I'm just offering up space in case this place craps out. Get together. Collaborate on ideas on what to do next. Etc.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Chronos on January 11, 2014, 10:19:07 PM
You are venturing into territory that even I would not dare ... and believe me I am a pretty darn good tinkerer. I think I have gotten too old to sit and tinker constantly.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 12, 2014, 01:48:08 AM
Yeah, I really don't know what I'm doing when I've been up since 3 in the morning. It's not 9:30.  :( Plus I was just testing around with some things. I promise I'll stop. This should work.

http://atheistthinktank.org/forum/index.php

Again, I'm just offering up space in case this place craps out. Get together. Collaborate on ideas on what to do next. Etc.

Well, it says the "username does not exist", and I was supposed to get an email which I didn't.

Try again? (me not you)

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 12, 2014, 01:50:43 AM
You are venturing into territory that even I would not dare ... and believe me I am a pretty darn good tinkerer. I think I have gotten too old to sit and tinker constantly.

I had such a perverted thought with that last line. ;)

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Chronos on January 12, 2014, 11:20:03 AM
The Little Sisters ...

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,21375.msg594736.html#msg594736

and some cross-referencing ...

http://www.reddit.com/r/WWGHA/comments/1v1adn/the_little_sisters/
http://15till3.wordpress.com/2014/01/12/the-little-sisters/

and also cross-commented using Disqus on NPR.org.

Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Chronos on January 14, 2014, 03:28:11 AM
Automatic payment made, grace period in force, or shut-off later in the day?

Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: screwtape on January 14, 2014, 07:51:42 AM
Automatic payment made, grace period in force, or shut-off later in the day?

dunno.  looks like C
http://who.is/whois/whywontgodhealamputees.com
looks like 5:00 z. 
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: HAL on January 14, 2014, 08:20:03 AM
dunno.  looks like C
http://who.is/whois/whywontgodhealamputees.com
looks like 5:00 z.

Well it's already Jan 14th, and the UTC time is 13:18z.

Even if it does expire, he'll renew it after he gets a bunch of complaint emails.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: screwtape on January 14, 2014, 08:43:08 AM
I pre-emptively sent him a friendly note letting him know people are a little freaked out.  I thanked him for the site in the event he chose to not renew.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Chronos on January 14, 2014, 09:00:37 AM
I didn't notice the time stamp before. I just assumed it was like insurance and would go dead 12:01am EST.

Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: screwtape on January 14, 2014, 09:12:59 AM
I think 5:01z is 12:01am est.  So maybe there's a grace period.  I dunno.  Maybe he put it on the same host as how stuff works?
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Anfauglir on January 14, 2014, 09:24:05 AM
Expiry now showing as 2015.

Praise God.  Or Marshall.  One or t'other.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: One Above All on January 14, 2014, 09:31:19 AM
Expiry now showing as 2015.

Praise God.  Or Marshall.  One or t'other.

You're welcome. ;)
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: wright on January 14, 2014, 01:45:10 PM
Expiry now showing as 2015.

Praise God.  Or Marshall.  One or t'other.

Indeed. Thank you, the ones or One who decided to keep the forum up and slogging along.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: shnozzola on January 14, 2014, 02:16:54 PM
Ok.  Which one of you is Marshall?   Come clean.  Maybe its like To tell the truth.  I am Marshall Brain.  No, I am Marshall Brain.  No, no, I am Marshall Brain.  Will the real Marshall Brain please stand up?
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Traveler on January 14, 2014, 02:45:37 PM
Ok.  Which one of you is Marshall?   Come clean.  Maybe its like To tell the truth.  I am Marshall Brain.  No, I am Marshall Brain.  No, no, I am Marshall Brain.  Will the real Marshall Brain please stand up?

LOL, I was thinking the same thing!  :laugh:
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 14, 2014, 02:54:32 PM
It's me. Fooled you all.

;)

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: ParkingPlaces on January 14, 2014, 03:40:47 PM
I wanted to be be Marshall, but in the pre-life, we flipped a coin and he won.

But I won ParkingPlaces, which is a close second. Right?
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Nam on January 14, 2014, 04:28:17 PM
I wanted to be be Marshall, but in the pre-life, we flipped a coin and he won.

But I won ParkingPlaces, which is a close second. Right?

Riiiight.

-Nam
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: magicmiles on January 14, 2014, 04:32:51 PM
Marshall Brain amongst us....hmm. Possibly using the initials MB.

Thanks for re-registering, Mad Bunny.
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: xyzzy on January 14, 2014, 07:26:21 PM
Now that's settled, and the world forum is not going to end after all, who is going to own up to being Harold Camping? ;)
Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Chronos on January 14, 2014, 08:12:34 PM
I think 5:01z is 12:01am est.  So maybe there's a grace period.  I dunno.  Maybe he put it on the same host as how stuff works?

In 2007 Discovery Communications purchased HowStuffWorks.com. However, Mr Brain does have his personal website hosted by the same web hosting company as this site:

(http://i.imgur.com/tbHGFPG.png)

So, maybe he keeps the credit card updated for his own site and this one gets updated by default.

Even though the domain renewal appears to be automatic, we still have the problem of the database on this site going down at any moment. I'm amazed that we haven't had a huge hiccup for a long time.

Title: Re: An Invitation, or Drop Day January 14, 2014
Post by: Chronos on January 14, 2014, 08:14:21 PM
Ok.  Which one of you is Marshall?   Come clean.  Maybe its like To tell the truth.  I am Marshall Brain.  No, I am Marshall Brain.  No, no, I am Marshall Brain.  Will the real Marshall Brain please stand up?

We have had mysterious members with the access and knowledge to post things we cannot otherwise access. In the past Postal Girl had competition.