whywontgodhealamputees.com

Community Zone => Chatter => Topic started by: kin hell on December 13, 2012, 05:00:33 PM

Title: the forum problem
Post by: kin hell on December 13, 2012, 05:00:33 PM
Welcome back, WWGHA members. 

Sorry for the long hiatus.  This forum was put in Maintenance mode so the owner could make necessary software upgrades.  Unfortunately, the upgrades have not been made and will not be made in the known future.

G'day screwtape. Thanks for your behind the scenes ressurectioning.  Can you give us a little more detail. Why no upgrades? What is the issue?


Quote
  Rather than wait indefinitely for that to happen, we have opened the forum back up until the maintenance is actually performed or it crashes. 

Until then, enjoy.

Eaten by Bears makes a very pertinent point. What, if any, archival access/plans are available. I noticed that the old forum was still accessible throughout this recent dark age.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: 3sigma on December 13, 2012, 06:01:08 PM
Thank you, screwtape. I missed WWGHA. It is one of the few forums where unsupported claims and evasions are rigorously challenged.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: jetson on December 13, 2012, 07:25:31 PM
Welcome back, WWGHA members. 

Sorry for the long hiatus.  This forum was put in Maintenance mode so the owner could make necessary software upgrades.  Unfortunately, the upgrades have not been made and will not be made in the known future.

G'day screwtape. Thanks for your behind the scenes ressurectioning.  Can you give us a little more detail. Why no upgrades? What is the issue?


Quote
  Rather than wait indefinitely for that to happen, we have opened the forum back up until the maintenance is actually performed or it crashes. 

Until then, enjoy.

Eaten by Bears makes a very pertinent point. What, if any, archival access/plans are available. I noticed that the old forum was still accessible throughout this recent dark age.

The main problem is that we don't own the forum, so we have to rely on the owner cooperating.  So far, the owner has been uninterested in working with us to get the upgrades we need.  No one knows why, so we're guessing it's just not that important to him.  Only time will tell if that will change.

Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: wright on December 13, 2012, 08:21:09 PM
Indeed, welcome back all.

The main problem is that we don't own the forum, so we have to rely on the owner cooperating.  So far, the owner has been uninterested in working with us to get the upgrades we need.  No one knows why, so we're guessing it's just not that important to him.  Only time will tell if that will change.

We can only hope for the best, then. What about the archiving issue: is what screwtape suggested possible? Or would the upgrade have to come first?
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nick on December 13, 2012, 09:41:33 PM
Welcome back, WWGHA members. 

Sorry for the long hiatus.  This forum was put in Maintenance mode so the owner could make necessary software upgrades.  Unfortunately, the upgrades have not been made and will not be made in the known future.

G'day screwtape. Thanks for your behind the scenes ressurectioning.  Can you give us a little more detail. Why no upgrades? What is the issue?


Quote
  Rather than wait indefinitely for that to happen, we have opened the forum back up until the maintenance is actually performed or it crashes. 

Until then, enjoy.

Eaten by Bears makes a very pertinent point. What, if any, archival access/plans are available. I noticed that the old forum was still accessible throughout this recent dark age.

The main problem is that we don't own the forum, so we have to rely on the owner cooperating.  So far, the owner has been uninterested in working with us to get the upgrades we need.  No one knows why, so we're guessing it's just not that important to him.  Only time will tell if that will change.
Why can't we buy it from him?
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: jetson on December 13, 2012, 09:53:51 PM
Why can't we buy it from him?

Look at you, all entrepreneur!
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: screwtape on December 14, 2012, 07:58:46 AM
Why can't we buy it from him?

You would have to ask Brain.  I have been told by several people they have made that offer.  I am also told they were ignored entirely.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: none on December 14, 2012, 08:14:45 AM
how do I contact the owner? just for shits and giggles... of course.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: naemhni on December 14, 2012, 08:26:26 AM
Why can't we buy it from him?

You would have to ask Brain.  I have been told by several people they have made that offer.  I am also told they were ignored entirely.

Yes, I am one such person.  It's frustrating.

how do I contact the owner? just for shits and giggles... of course.

http://www.marshallbrain.com/

He won't write back, though, so I'd recommend you not waste your time.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2012, 09:08:31 AM
Too bad someone with the know how could not start a new forum with just a word changed here or there and everything else the same.  Like "Why Won't God Heal ANY Amputees?"

Are we for sure that God has not called Brian home?
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: none on December 14, 2012, 09:10:59 AM
Why can't we buy it from him?

You would have to ask Brain.  I have been told by several people they have made that offer.  I am also told they were ignored entirely.

Yes, I am one such person.  It's frustrating.

how do I contact the owner? just for shits and giggles... of course.

http://www.marshallbrain.com/

He won't write back, though, so I'd recommend you not waste your time.
who said I am writing?
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: HAL on December 14, 2012, 09:24:21 AM
Too bad someone with the know how could not start a new forum with just a word changed here or there and everything else the same.  Like "Why Won't God Heal ANY Amputees?"

It's not that hard (that's what she said).

Just buy a domain name that's not being used. Then, purchase a hosting account to go along with it. Install a forum. Presto - there you go.

If someone buys all that stuff (it's not really that expensive) I'll help install the forum since I know all about SMF forums and you can siphon the users from this forum to the new one, and you'll be free of this abandoned forum.

I have my own forum and I've done it. One of you has to step up to the plate and start this new forum. Question is - will anyone actually put their money where there mouth is? I doubt it.  :-\
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: none on December 14, 2012, 09:30:38 AM
I got a tower that can do virtual hosting with all associated virtual emails and crap that goes along with it.
it has about 6 terabytes of space
my UL speed is a snails pace 865kbs...
plus godisimaginary.com is taken
and I can't think of a domain name that would attract attention.
besides the obvious jesuswontsuckmydick.com
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Anfauglir on December 14, 2012, 09:31:38 AM
How much are we talking about - initially and on an ongoing basis?

I don't have anywhere near the technical skills required, nor the time - but I do have the money, and the desire.

My concern is that the relevant website will direct people to this forum, and of course not the new one.

However, we can clearly put admin messages on the front of this.  Is there anything to stop us shutting this forum, and putting a "try here" message up - or just plain redirecting to a new forum?
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: none on December 14, 2012, 09:36:49 AM
its about 100 bucks a year to register a secret domain...
that means your identity is concealed.
the domain name doesn't need to be a physical machine or virtual machine...
it can be a web hop redirect pointing to any ip you want. and even a direct page...
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: HAL on December 14, 2012, 09:39:28 AM
How much are we talking about - initially and on an ongoing basis?

Well, I'm paying aout $29 for two years for the domain name atheistthinktank.net, and $149 for two years of hosting service. That's it.

Quote
I don't have anywhere near the technical skills required, nor the time - but I do have the money, and the desire.

I have the technical skills to install the forum and set it up for you. I know all about it because I've played with it for many years.


Quote
My concern is that the relevant website will direct people to this forum, and of course not the new one.

You can work on some ideas for that problem.

Quote
Is there anything to stop us shutting this forum, and putting a "try here" message up - or just plain redirecting to a new forum?

I don't think it's ethical, even as this forum is abandoned by the owner, to do that. But you can certainly try to direct users to the new forum from here.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Anfauglir on December 14, 2012, 09:57:47 AM
Quote from: Anfauglir
My concern is that the relevant website will direct people to this forum, and of course not the new one.

You can work on some ideas for that problem.

So far as the cash goes, that ain't a problem.  It's this single question here that is the crux of the matter.

If all I was interested in was a general forum, then I'd likely have jumped ship to ATT or one of the other forums that popped up when the first site went down.  (NB - Not passing comment on any of 'em, never (AFAIR) everf been to 'em).  I stayed here because the WWGHA question site is relatively well known, and directs Christians who disagree to THIS site.

I'm qith you on the ethicality of shutting this and redirecting - though maybe it would stir MB into action?  But I'm stumped as to how else we can link the WWGHA site to a new WWGHAA forum, which to me is the crucial factor.


edit - fixed quote
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: HAL on December 14, 2012, 10:15:17 AM
I'm qith you on the ethicality of shutting this and redirecting - though maybe it would stir MB into action?  But I'm stumped as to how else we can link the WWGHA site to a new WWGHAA forum, which to me is the crucial factor.

Well, may I suggest a course of action? I'll just pretend you said yes.

Start a project board with a discussion thread for each major problem you need to talk about.

1. Which hosting company and what is the domain name going to be?

2. How do we direct members to the new forum?

3. What would be the design of the new forum - such as the theme, colors, boards, purpose, and so on.

Start working on each problem for a few weeks and figure it out.

Look, this forum might go down today forever, or might not get renewed next time, so if that happens you'll only have yourselves to blame for not having a refuge set up the way you want it.

I'm willing to help but I'm not going to do all the work, I have already done it for my own needs and desires. It's you people who have to do it. I'll be watching to see if that happens.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2012, 11:19:47 AM
I don't think money would be a problem.  A lot of us use this forum enough to justify helping out.  I would hate to lose the "Why Wont God Heal Amputee" theme.  That seems to be the million dollar question and the guts of the whole message we are trying to give out.  I would want to try to keep that somehow.
Title: Re: Welcome back
Post by: shnozzola on December 14, 2012, 11:58:57 AM
Why can't we buy it from him?

You would have to ask Brain.  I have been told by several people they have made that offer.  I am also told they were ignored entirely.

Yes, I am one such person.  It's frustrating.

how do I contact the owner? just for shits and giggles... of course.

http://www.marshallbrain.com/

He won't write back, though, so I'd recommend you not waste your time.
I wrote to Brain's email address.  I didn't write anything about the website in the email subject line, so possibly less chance of being ignored.  We can only try.  I'll send something to the person that takes on the cost of starting up a site, or hopefully purchasing this one.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: naemhni on December 14, 2012, 12:46:12 PM
By the way, the domain wwgha.com is not registered.  Just sayin'.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: HAL on December 14, 2012, 12:49:29 PM
By the way, the domain wwgha.com is not registered.  Just sayin'.

Be careful - don't get involved with any copyright issues - just sayin. I'm not a lawyer but I play one on the forum.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: naemhni on December 14, 2012, 12:52:31 PM
By the way, the domain wwgha.com is not registered.  Just sayin'.

Be careful - don't get involved with any copyright issues - just sayin. I'm not a lawyer but I play one on the forum.

Considering how little attention he pays to the site, I'm not sure it would be a problem.  Nevertheless, point taken.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Dominic on December 14, 2012, 01:18:27 PM
Is Brain in a jar and we are but his playthings ?
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Samothec on December 14, 2012, 02:03:31 PM
WWGHA.com could be the home of When Will God Help Amputees? or When Will God Help Anyone? or Who Wants God to Help Amputees?

I'd prefer it if the owner would maintain (or facilitate others maintaining) this site or else sell it. Or facilitate WWGHA.com taking over.

[1]Barring that, assuming a new similar website is made using "WWGHA" in some fashion, if this site's owner would attempt to block it with legal action, could the new site legally defend itself with the facts of the problems present on this site and the lack of an update after an extended downtime expressly for that purpose? I almost used the word "neglect" but I don't know if grounds could be made for "neglect".


 1. Original version of this paragraph that prompts erroneous replies: Barring that, are there legal defenses possible (for a similar website) based on the absence of upkeep on this site? I phrase it that way because of the no-longer-recent problems and lack of an update after an extended downtime expressly for that purpose. I almost used the word "neglect" but I don't know if grounds could be made for "neglect".
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2012, 02:10:22 PM
Is Brain in a jar and we are but his playthings ?
It is almost like trying to get the attention of God.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2012, 02:11:56 PM
At one time it was "Why Does God Hate Amputees".
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: none on December 14, 2012, 02:16:22 PM
www.whydoesntbriancare.com
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: naemhni on December 14, 2012, 02:16:42 PM
WWGHA.com could be the home of When Will God Help Amputees? or When Will God Help Anyone? or Who Wants God to Help Amputees?

True.  I doubt that would pass muster if a copyright challenge were mounted, though, especially inasmuch as the acronym WWGHA is widely used to refer to this site.  (I am not a lawyer.)

Quote
I'd prefer it if the owner would maintain (or facilitate others maintaining) this site or else sell it. Or facilitate WWGHA.com taking over.

So would I and a lot of other people, but it appears to be highly unlikely.

Quote
Barring that, are there legal defenses possible (for a similar website) based on the absence of upkeep on this site? I phrase it that way because of the no-longer-recent problems and lack of an update after an extended downtime expressly for that purpose.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt it.  The domain name is his private property, and as such, he can do what he wants with it -- if he wants to register it, retain all the administrative logins and so forth, and then do nothing with it, that would probably be considered his right.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Samothec on December 14, 2012, 02:32:20 PM
True.  I doubt that would pass muster if a copyright challenge were mounted, though, especially inasmuch as the acronym WWGHA is widely used to refer to this site.  (I am not a lawyer.)
I would not be a copyright challenge as copyright only applies to longer works[1], not acronyms. If he has trademarked WWGHA then he could take legal action.


Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt it.  The domain name is his private property, and as such, he can do what he wants with it -- if he wants to register it, retain all the administrative logins and so forth, and then do nothing with it, that would probably be considered his right.
The idea wasn't for a legal defense for taking away this site but instead for creating a similar site and protecting it from legal action by this site's owner. Sorry that wasn't clearer.
 1. I am unsure if seomthing as short as "Why Won't God Heal Amputees" even qualifies for copyright protection. Possibly but I haven't checked on phrases/questions to be certain. But I do know that one or two words together must be trademarked to be protected.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: HAL on December 14, 2012, 02:47:35 PM
Barring that, are there legal defenses possible (for a similar website) based on the absence of upkeep on this site?

No.

It's like at-will employment. I can buy a domain name and simply hold it at-will for no reason at all just like I can employ you at-will until I decide it's not my will any longer. And a hosting account the same way. And the software on the server the same way. As long as it's paid for it's my property and the use of it is solely based on my allowing the use. Doesn't matter a whit what anyone else thinks of what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, or any other reason. Brain can have a bad day tomorrow and simply delete the database and SMF directory, and just like that, this place will disappear forever.

If you all want freedom from another person's will then do something about it. This has been discussed before but nothing ever happens. This might be the last time you can try to organize an alternative. The cost is minimal, so what is the excuse?
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nick on December 14, 2012, 02:50:42 PM
Gee, I would think we would have sqatters rights.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Samothec on December 14, 2012, 02:51:26 PM
Okay, this is the second reply to that post that reads it the wrong way so I'm going to change the original post to at least stop the erroneous responses. This is posted so future readers understand what happened here.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: HAL on December 14, 2012, 03:26:54 PM
Here's another idea:

Let's say you want to run away from home and start off on your own because daddy is irresponsible. What you could do is buy a temporary domain name like friendsofwwgha or projectnukegod or whatever name you can think up that's available. Go ahead and buy the temporary domain name and a hosting account and set up a working forum. Work on the project there, at least you'll have an apartment if daddy locks the doors. When you get the real domain name you want and all the ideas for the forum you want, just buy the domain name and set up the new forum at that point. You will have your own sandbox and you can siphon off all the users, and nobody will be able to tell you what you can do.

Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nam on December 14, 2012, 10:48:01 PM
I had a website once. It was called namvision.org. namvision.com was already taken. I ended up selling it, and the name was changed to something else. Oh, if one wants to know what was on the site: literature no one ever read or hardly read. Apparently that still held true. I just couldn't afford it anymore. Though I got free hosting 'cause a friend of mine (or acquaintance) owns (or owned) his own server/hosting company. What cost me was the maintenance and the work I put into it. I just wasn't prepared as I thought I was.

If you're not prepared, I wouldn't do it. It can be a lot of work.

-Nam
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Mooby on December 14, 2012, 11:25:46 PM
We can only hope for the best, then. What about the archiving issue: is what screwtape suggested possible? Or would the upgrade have to come first?
It can probably be done without an update.

The forum admins can do pretty much anything within the confines of the forum software, but they don't have access to the files and database that determine how that software runs.  In other words, they can drive the car, but they can't check under the hood.  That's perfectly fine when the forum's running well, but doesn't give them too many options when something goes wrong.

Backing up from the database is pretty easy; usually the option is present in the interface itself.  This is assuming that Mr. Brain and/or his hosting company are doing regular backups of the forum.  My guess is that the former is extremely unlikely, and the latter is fairly unlikely.

From the forum side, backup is a bit trickier.  I'm not aware of any mods that will do it for you, and even if there are some they're unlikely to be supported.  So you're probably looking at a web crawler/archiver, which will likely do a suboptimal job in an excessive amount of time.  But it's better than nothing.  There are a lot of free ones out there, so it's likely a matter of finding the one that fits their needs.

As for the upgrade, it's probably not all that necessary.  The 2.0 release candidates were stable enough for everyday function, and just because the forum is running RC4 doesn't mean it's on the brink of collapse.  The real issue is that you can only do minor updates from the forum side--say, from 2.0.1 to 2.0.2.  To make a larger update (from RC4 to 2.0), you need access to the actual files.

The main problem is that this forum is in a software limbo.  SMF 1.x and SMF 2.x are both supported, but the 2.0 release candidates stopped updating when SMF 2.0 was released.  This means that new mods and new updates to old mods will likely only support 1.x or 2.x, but not 2.0 RC4.  So the issue is more that the forum is being left to stagnate than it is that the forum will crash in the near future.  Sort of like being stuck on Windows ME.

Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Luke on December 15, 2012, 03:49:40 AM
Son of Man and Assyriankey managed to Archive the whole of the original WWGHA, from what I remember. I fairly sure they didn't have any Admin powers, but have no idea how they did it.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nick on December 15, 2012, 04:16:41 AM
Magic.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: screwtape on December 15, 2012, 08:45:20 AM
Son of Man and Assyriankey managed to Archive the whole of the original WWGHA, from what I remember. I fairly sure they didn't have any Admin powers, but have no idea how they did it.

In what way is it archived?  Is a database?  Is it a gigantic Word doc?  Jpg? 
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: HAL on December 15, 2012, 08:49:05 AM
Backing up from the database is pretty easy; usually the option is present in the interface itself.  This is assuming that Mr. Brain and/or his hosting company are doing regular backups of the forum.  My guess is that the former is extremely unlikely, and the latter is fairly unlikely.

He uses the same hosting company I do and yes, complete daily backups are being dome automagically by the company - I've used them before. You can go literally go back to any day in the past (not sure how many) and restore everything from a Cpanel application. There is no need to do backups from the SMF controls. But since they are the property of someone else they won't do them any good.

Quote
As for the upgrade, it's probably not all that necessary. ... The main problem is that this forum is in a software limbo.

That's why it's necessary Mooby. They are stuck in no man's land and can't use most of the current mods nor can they get security updates from SMF. They need the large upgrade package and it's impossible to install it unless you can get to Cpanel to upload all the files. They are being overrun by spammer accounts at the moment and none of the anti-soam solutions are available because they are in RC4. As I warned them in another post - if they aren't going to manually maintain the forum and handle the spammers themselves they need to consider whether opening the forum is the right thing to do, and whether they really want members to keep posting when it's entirely possible that their work and community will be shut down for a variety of reasons at any time.

MOVE TO A NEW TEMPORARY FORUM BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE

What is it going to take before somebody acts on this?
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: HAL on December 15, 2012, 09:12:37 AM
I just checked - all these names are available as of 15DEC2012 0800 CT

friendsofwwgha.com
friendsofwwgha.net
nogodsforus.net
nogodsforus.com
wwgharefugees.net
wwgharefugees.com
whywontgodshelpanyone.net
whywontgodshelpanyone.net

I just checked EZ web hosting -

Annually / Free Domain!    $3.23* /month

http://www.ez-web-hosting.com/webhosting.htm

That's $38.76 a year with a free domain! I can almost shit that much money.

You could be up and running in 24 hours time and get all the active members you want from this place, then give it back to the owner.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Dominic on December 15, 2012, 09:14:57 AM
Son of Man and Assyriankey managed to Archive the whole of the original WWGHA, from what I remember. I fairly sure they didn't have any Admin powers, but have no idea how they did it.

In what way is it archived?  Is a database?  Is it a gigantic Word doc?  Jpg?

The old WWGHA archive  -

http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com/forum/index.php (http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com/forum/index.php)

(note the singular word 'forum' in the url)

13 guests and 1 user (that would be me) there at the moment : - )
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nam on December 15, 2012, 02:11:06 PM
If anyone needs money donated to a new forum, at this time, I could spare about $20.

Dominic,

I go there sometimes. I even login. Can't do much, tho.

-Nam
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nick on December 15, 2012, 02:16:44 PM
It does seem like we are on a short leash again.  I would be willing to chip in also.  The important thing is to notify members somehow when (if) this happens, try to keep as much of the forum as it is as possible,and have a mail bag system of some kind.

The forum is kind of like an amputee now and God is not going to heal it any time soon.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: HAL on December 15, 2012, 02:23:09 PM
If anyone needs money donated to a new forum, at this time, I could spare about $20.

$20 - That's more than half way there. What the Hell, I'll send $5 just out of curiosity to see if anyone will actually do something. That's $25. Whoever wants to "own" it and get the domain and hosting accounts can set up a PayPal account and I can send my $5 today.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: none on December 15, 2012, 03:43:41 PM
what is the name of the site supposed to be?
I can have this shit up in a couple hours I bet.
knowing which buttons to push on the forum interface is going to be the biggest hurdle for me..
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: HAL on December 16, 2012, 08:21:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep-xgd_eETE
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nick on December 16, 2012, 09:40:07 AM
what is the name of the site supposed to be?
I can have this shit up in a couple hours I bet.
knowing which buttons to push on the forum interface is going to be the biggest hurdle for me..
"Why The Hell Does God Hate Amputees?"  for consideration :D
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: none on December 16, 2012, 10:00:03 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep-xgd_eETE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fvpyo2WuVY
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: changeling on December 16, 2012, 12:05:25 PM
If anyone needs money donated to a new forum, at this time, I could spare about $20.

$20 - That's more than half way there. What the Hell, I'll send $5 just out of curiosity to see if anyone will actually do something. That's $25. Whoever wants to "own" it and get the domain and hosting accounts can set up a PayPal account and I can send my $5 today.

I am too damned computer illiterate to understand half of what you guys
are talking about, but if someone does what Hal said and sets up the paypal account
I will send $25.00 right away.

I have to say though, except for loss of all the history here, I really am enjoying Atheist think tank.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: none on December 16, 2012, 12:21:26 PM
if I setup a site I will setup a paypal account.
I don't see setting up a paypal account prior to a website as necessary.
I asked for a website name...
several have been thrown out there.
I prefer whatjesus.com
but that is my preference.
if the people who are members here want a particular name then there needs to be consensus.
I am in no hurry.
it either happens or it doesn't.
but I am not going to setup a paypal account for something that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: HAL on December 16, 2012, 12:26:10 PM
I am too damned computer illiterate to understand half of what you guys
are talking about, but if someone does what Hal said and sets up the paypal account
I will send $25.00 right away.

Nam's in for $20, I'm in for $5 (just to see if anyone will migrate the community), and you are in for $25. That's enough - $50. What are you all waiting for?

The powers that be need to get on board and decide how to go forward. I'm not doing the work I have my own problems.  :)

Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nick on December 16, 2012, 12:33:00 PM
if I setup a site I will setup a paypal account.
I don't see setting up a paypal account prior to a website as necessary.
I asked for a website name...
several have been thrown out there.
I prefer whatjesus.com
but that is my preference.
if the people who are members here want a particular name then there needs to be consensus.
I am in no hurry.
it either happens or it doesn't.
but I am not going to setup a paypal account for something that doesn't exist.
Churches have been doing that for 100s of years.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: none on December 16, 2012, 12:34:49 PM
hehe..
anyways.
I sent an email..
about whygodwhy.com
asking dollar amount to acquire the domain name.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: none on December 16, 2012, 12:35:54 PM
and where is Nam?
oh yeah..
poetry land....
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nam on December 16, 2012, 12:56:13 PM
I am not giving none any money.

-Nam
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: changeling on December 16, 2012, 01:01:19 PM
if I setup a site I will setup a paypal account.
I don't see setting up a paypal account prior to a website as necessary.
I asked for a website name...
several have been thrown out there.
I prefer whatjesus.com
but that is my preference.
if the people who are members here want a particular name then there needs to be consensus.
I am in no hurry.
it either happens or it doesn't.
but I am not going to setup a paypal account for something that doesn't exist.

There are already quite a few atheist sites out there.
I think the real advntage would come from somehow relating the new site to WWGHA
as an alternate to this site if it becomes unavailable.

It has gone down moe than once in recent years.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nam on December 16, 2012, 01:24:01 PM
Technically it didn't go down this time around but the crash of '08 was rememberable. It created more sites at its loss. Some successful, some not.

The only problem with this site is that it's owned by a person who doesn't give a shit about it anymore. Because if he did, he'd take care of it. And it seems he doesn't even acknowledge the people who are trying to take care of it.

A new website may give the "regulars" here a new home but it won't be as popular as this one. But, at least "we" wouldn't have to worry about crashes or maintenance modes that go on forever.

-Nam
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: none on December 16, 2012, 01:37:54 PM
I am not giving none any money.

-Nam
who me?
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: changeling on December 16, 2012, 02:35:03 PM
The only problem with this site is that it's owned by a person who doesn't give a shit about it anymore. Because if he did, he'd take care of it. And it seems he doesn't even acknowledge the people who are trying to take care of it.
-Nam

Maybe he got saved and washed in the blood of Jebus.
He doesn't want this site any more and doesn't want anybody else to
blaspheme.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Anfauglir on December 17, 2012, 04:17:42 AM
I think the real advntage would come from somehow relating the new site to WWGHA

Like I said before, this is the issue.  If all we are doing is setting up atheistsite#582, then there seems little point.  The new site will be yet another random group that splintered from WWGHA and will thrive or founder as all the others have done, but its chief problem will be that there is not the link to the main website: THAT is where the vast bulk of the non-atheist traffic comes from, and without the regular supply of Christians, who are we going to rail against?   ;D

Here is my suggestion, taking into account the possible legal issues......

1) We start a new forum - my preference is for something like friendsofwwgha
2) The Admins lock this forum with the previous "awaiting update" message - and a link to the new forum.
3) We run the new forum exactly like this one - still Brain's baby, still linked to the website, the only change in effect is that we are in control of the updates and functionality.

4) Marshall will either continue to ignore it all, in which case no problem, or he will get in touch and either resolve the problems here, or tell us to shut down - either way, we will have a resolution, and I have no concerns over the legal issues if we shut down immediately on first contact as requested.

As I've said before, I have neither the time nor the skills to set up or Admin a site like this.  Thanks to Hal though for the costings - yes, I'll cover the lot if we're doing the above (or similar).  Quite happy to buy the car and then throw the keys at someone, provided someone tells me what dealer to use and what model to buy, etc.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nick on December 17, 2012, 06:09:07 AM
How about a Prius.  Better gas mileage.  Don't know if we can all get in it.  We may need the Prius V.

That sounds like a very reasonable idea.  I like it.  Would the mail bag still work or would someone be able to retrieve it now and again and bring it to the new site?  The name sounds good also.  I guess "somewhat acquainted with WWGHA" is a little long.

When do we move.  I will have to start getting boxes from the grocery store to pack.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: HAL on December 17, 2012, 07:22:57 AM
Here is my suggestion, taking into account the possible legal issues......

1) We start a new forum - my preference is for something like friendsofwwgha
2) The Admins lock this forum with the previous "awaiting update" message - and a link to the new forum.
3) We run the new forum exactly like this one - still Brain's baby, still linked to the website, the only change in effect is that we are in control of the updates and functionality.

Exactly. It's a win-win situation. Either you capture the entire community at a new forum, or you get this one updated for the future. You really can't lose.

Look at it this way, if spending $40 gets Brain to pay attention and fix your house, then it will have been worth it, and you'll still have a well-known place to go to in the event this one crashes. The longer you wait the more chance there is to lose everybody.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: changeling on December 17, 2012, 07:35:57 AM
I think the real advntage would come from somehow relating the new site to WWGHA



Here is my suggestion, taking into account the possible legal issues......

1) We start a new forum - my preference is for something like friendsofwwgha


Being ignorant to all of the intracacies of the internet, I have a question.

If the site were named "friendsofwwgha", would a search for wwgha bring it up?
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Nick on December 17, 2012, 08:42:01 AM
WWGHA - "The Next Generation"

WWGHA - survivors

WWGHA - 2.0
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Anfauglir on December 17, 2012, 08:43:08 AM
1) We start a new forum - my preference is for something like friendsofwwgha

Being ignorant to all of the intracacies of the internet, I have a question.

If the site were named "friendsofwwgha", would a search for wwgha bring it up?

Well, I just looked for "The Earth", and "Friends of the Earth" was third on the list!   ;D

Seriously though, one benefit of "friendsof...." is that it will make clear we're not trying to run away with the name - just to keep things operating smoothly.

I'm not technical enough on forum software to be able to pick a provider that offers the right level of support.  I'll pay it (he said again), but I can't make the right choices. 
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: changeling on December 17, 2012, 08:47:01 AM
Yes, but you broke the words up. So the word earth is what was searched for.
That would not be the case in my original question.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Anfauglir on December 17, 2012, 09:14:44 AM
Yes, but you broke the words up. So the word earth is what was searched for.

True - "theearth" gets FotE as 6th hit.

Its something we'll not know for sure until it's done, I guess.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: none on December 17, 2012, 10:15:53 AM
I think the real advntage would come from somehow relating the new site to WWGHA

Like I said before, this is the issue.  If all we are doing is setting up atheistsite#582, then there seems little point.  The new site will be yet another random group that splintered from WWGHA and will thrive or founder as all the others have done, but its chief problem will be that there is not the link to the main website: THAT is where the vast bulk of the non-atheist traffic comes from, and without the regular supply of Christians, who are we going to rail against?   ;D

Here is my suggestion, taking into account the possible legal issues......

1) We start a new forum - my preference is for something like friendsofwwgha
2) The Admins lock this forum with the previous "awaiting update" message - and a link to the new forum.
3) We run the new forum exactly like this one - still Brain's baby, still linked to the website, the only change in effect is that we are in control of the updates and functionality.

4) Marshall will either continue to ignore it all, in which case no problem, or he will get in touch and either resolve the problems here, or tell us to shut down - either way, we will have a resolution, and I have no concerns over the legal issues if we shut down immediately on first contact as requested.

As I've said before, I have neither the time nor the skills to set up or Admin a site like this.  Thanks to Hal though for the costings - yes, I'll cover the lot if we're doing the above (or similar).  Quite happy to buy the car and then throw the keys at someone, provided someone tells me what dealer to use and what model to buy, etc.
well. here is an idea.
as ridiculous as it sounds...
I was thinking maybe something like Christian Apologetics Ministry Run by Atheists and Consulted by Christians could be the main page.
and then pages and pages of useless.. I mean Christian apologetics "resources"...
anyways...
it might get the traffic moreso than just "look you are an idiot for perpetrating your bullshit onto society and if you don't perpetrate your stupid shit well chances are you are still fucked up: join the forum!"
It would take some effort and maybe if Christians weren't consulted it would work.
the ez-hosting whatever site that HAL linked seemed reasonable.
I would prefer a virtual private server if it were up to me though, but that isn't mandatory... I can live with just webspace..
the guy wants 10k for whygodwhy.com
I can offer 3k for it, but I think that offer will be rejected.
I don't know.
I probably already pissed him off with my last email. who knows.. but I haven't received a 2nd correspondence from him.
anyways that is what I am thinking.
and like I said it might get more interest that just "we hate your ideas you idiots" site.
and Nam, you are a very loving and generous individual and I don't think it is mandatory that you express your loving and generous nature, I still love you....
hehehe
plus the paypal account hasn't been created.
have a nice day.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: shnozzola on December 31, 2012, 03:01:35 PM
I think the real advntage would come from somehow relating the new site to WWGHA

Like I said before, this is the issue.  If all we are doing is setting up atheistsite#582, then there seems little point.  The new site will be yet another random group that splintered from WWGHA and will thrive or founder as all the others have done, but its chief problem will be that there is not the link to the main website: THAT is where the vast bulk of the non-atheist traffic comes from, and without the regular supply of Christians, who are we going to rail against?   ;D

Here is my suggestion, taking into account the possible legal issues......

1) We start a new forum - my preference is for something like friendsofwwgha
2) The Admins lock this forum with the previous "awaiting update" message - and a link to the new forum.
3) We run the new forum exactly like this one - still Brain's baby, still linked to the website, the only change in effect is that we are in control of the updates and functionality.

4) Marshall will either continue to ignore it all, in which case no problem, or he will get in touch and either resolve the problems here, or tell us to shut down - either way, we will have a resolution, and I have no concerns over the legal issues if we shut down immediately on first contact as requested.

As I've said before, I have neither the time nor the skills to set up or Admin a site like this.  Thanks to Hal though for the costings - yes, I'll cover the lot if we're doing the above (or similar).  Quite happy to buy the car and then throw the keys at someone, provided someone tells me what dealer to use and what model to buy, etc.

I was wondering whether the finalized plan is put in place for the future of this site?  Or has Marshall Brain quietly updated the site?   
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: HAL on December 31, 2012, 07:26:25 PM
I was wondering whether the finalized plan is put in place for the future of this site?  Or has Marshall Brain quietly updated the site?

Hi shnozzola,

Nobody is doing anything about it. As far as I can tell members don't care all that much about the community or they would do something about it by starting their own forum. I've tried to push and prod them along but the thread just died out till you posted. They've had ample warning that the site owner doesn't care about it, so next time it goes belly-up they won't have anyone to blame when they get a blank screen or the like.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Mooby on December 31, 2012, 10:00:04 PM
Or has Marshall Brain quietly updated the site?
If you look to the bottom of the site, you'll see, "Powered by SMF 2.0 RC4."  That's the beta version of SMF 2.0.  When that switches to the full 2.0 or later, it means the forum software has been updated.  Current version is 2.0.3.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: shnozzola on January 01, 2013, 06:47:20 PM
Alright.  I'm not the person to do much, there are certainly many others better qualified, but I do have the "care" factor.  For all the rationality we claim, it would be stupid to lose this forum because  an uninterested owner doesn't update it.  After the holidays are over, we need to push this.

HAL's questions:
1. Which hosting company and what is the domain name going to be?
   I vote we use the hosting company HAL now uses.  I like Pianodwarf's  idea of WWGHA.com as a domain   name. If it stirs up MB, good.     

2. How do we direct members to the new forum?
   Link on the "down for maintenance"  page.

3. What would be the design of the new forum - such as the theme, colors, boards, purpose, and so on.
   For now, exactly as it is. 
____________________________
Questions -
   -Can we copy the front page with all the links if the entire site disappears?  Maybe it would stir MB into action.
   -How many people are involved in admin and who is the person with the last word?
   -Anfauglir's and HAL's ideas above seem the best, with at least a direction to an interim forum so WWGHA keeps the  large amount of traffic and the members.  I vote Anfauglir pays and we send money to him. 
   -Will the front page remain indefinitely without a working forum?   If it disappears, what do we do?
   -How is the Old forum kept - does MB own that database also?
   -if we are worried about MB, we should email and send a letter with our detailed intentions.

Hopefully admin has plans in place for all of this and I have no reason for concern.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Traveler on January 01, 2013, 07:08:22 PM
I'm just seeing this thread for the first time. I agree that we should move ahead. We have the money. We have the technical know-how and volunteers to do the port to a new site. It sounds like all we're waiting for is momentum and/or someone to take the helm and bring together all the resources. Have the admins and mods discussed this behind the scenes? Are they all willing to move over to a new site?

I'm certainly willing to move, and highly approve of putting a pointer in place to guide people to the new forum.

Will we lose all the current threads? Or will we be starting totally from scratch?

I agree with HAL that time is of the essence.

I don't know how I can help. I have no money, no SMF experience, and no hosting suggestions. But, if there's a way I can help, I will. For now, I think friendsofwwgha or some varient sounds like a good plan to me.
Title: Re: the forum problem
Post by: Chronos on January 01, 2013, 11:13:42 PM
Well, to have a safe harbor, we could use a Google Community (the successor for Google Groups). You can find one for WWGHA here
https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/117800767173909228802

We could use the Google Community as a blog or chat area for the forum, even if we don't wish to use it for serious discussions. We can even do audio/video hangouts with theists. Wouldn't that be a hoot?!

Of course, you need a Gmail account to become a member, but you can create a Gmail account easily.