whywontgodhealamputees.com

Main Discussion Zone => MailBag => Topic started by: naemhni on November 30, 2011, 04:55:31 AM

Title: thanks [#2625]
Post by: naemhni on November 30, 2011, 04:55:31 AM
i just wanted to say thanks for making me feel better. i was looking for some inspiration and a story of healing to help lift my spirits. that usually helps me when i start feeling sad about my condition. i thought i was going to read an uplifting story about an amputee healing instead i had to be really lucky and got you(ugggh).whether or not god is real my feelings are REAL no matter what you say and now they are in a  worse place than they were when i got on the internet. and ussually 100 percent of the time i feel better after i read a few testimonies. thanks for taking away my medicine and decreasing what little faith and hope i had.

yours depressed,
[name removed]
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: One Above All on November 30, 2011, 05:02:05 AM
Sorry that you feel this way, but this website has helped a lot of people, some of which, IIRC, were in your situation.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Zankuu on November 30, 2011, 06:43:46 AM
Unfortunately, reality has no invested interest in your feelings. But yes, the de-conversion process I went though was quite a depressing ride.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Brakeman on November 30, 2011, 06:51:36 AM
Go to your local library, walk to the immense fiction section, and tell yourself "I believe all of this is true!" and you'll feel millions of times better!  :o
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: plethora on November 30, 2011, 07:02:06 AM
i just wanted to say thanks for making me feel better. i was looking for some inspiration and a story of healing to help lift my spirits. that usually helps me when i start feeling sad about my condition. i thought i was going to read an uplifting story about an amputee healing instead i had to be really lucky and got you(ugggh).

I'm sorry to hear that you have a condition that makes you feel so bad. However, you cannot blame us for your condition or for what you read on the internet and how that affects your feelings.

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whether or not god is real my feelings are REAL no matter what you say and now they are in a  worse place than they were when i got on the internet. and ussually 100 percent of the time i feel better after i read a few testimonies. thanks for taking away my medicine and decreasing what little faith and hope i had.

A belief in a god that doesn't actually exist is not necessary to pull through hard times. It is precisely the dependency on this false idea that we are against. It is detrimental. Many of us here are perfectly content with reality the way it is and pull through hard times without having to rely on some self-delusional myth.

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yours depressed,
[name removed]

I don't know what your condition is ... but one positive thing you can do is seek treatment. If something is affecting your health, it can probably be helped via medical science. My wife went through a depression. We are atheists so we don't pray or read testimonies to feel better. What we did was seek professional help from a psychologist who helped her pull through.

Seek help, for your depression and for your underlying condition. Science does a lot of good for people... a placebo effect from a delusional belief in an imaginary god does more harm in the long run.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Nick on November 30, 2011, 07:59:46 AM
You are a big boy.  You don't need imaginary sky daddies to make things better.  Get rid of that crutch and just live life because it is there and on your own terms.  In the long run you will be healthier for it.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 08:03:30 AM
i have congestive heart failure and im 34 i passed away in april but the doctors revived me and put stints in my heart and you are right i talked to god when i died but i never heard him say anything back and i didnt see him. and i did feeel and hear my self return to my body which was really weird. iwas going like thousands of miles per hour until i popped back in my body wow crazy moment. im tired anyway and i think im done with this whole illusion of life thing i just need to do it you know and you are right  this life has nothing to offer me if there was a god he would have never allowed this to happen to me in the first place. the stories helped me some but i always came back to feeling depressed anyway. i was just hoping for something to be there. anyways yall be good

thanksrob
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: plethora on November 30, 2011, 09:16:12 AM
i have congestive heart failure and im 34 i passed away in april but the doctors revived me and put stints in my heart

Hey man ... I'm sorry to hear about your heart condition. However, you are alive and still here ... that's a good thing  ;) ... and that is thanks to medical science.

I can't imagine what it's like to live with a life threatening condition... I don't know what my outlook on life would be in your shoes. All I can say is... do your best to enjoy the time you do have.

That's what we should all do. I mean, I don't have a heart condition that I'm aware of... but any one of us could have a stroke or get a heart attack or get hit by a bus before the end of this day. There's no point wasting time and energy on negative feelings and pointless useless crap that won't matter after we die. I keep myself positive, enjoy my time with my loved ones and do what makes me happy (which includes making others happy). That's my goal ... to be as happy as I can be for as long as I can be.

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and you are right i talked to god when i died but i never heard him say anything back and i didnt see him. and i did feeel and hear my self return to my body which was really weird. iwas going like thousands of miles per hour until i popped back in my body wow crazy moment.

The mind will do some crazy shit when it's dying. That's what you experienced.

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im tired anyway and i think im done with this whole illusion of life thing i just need to do it you know and you are right  this life has nothing to offer me if there was a god he would have never allowed this to happen to me in the first place. the stories helped me some but i always came back to feeling depressed anyway. i was just hoping for something to be there. anyways yall be good

thanksrob

You're life is not pointless just because there isn't an afterlife. You have the opportunity to give your life your own purpose and meaning here and now. You are 34 ... you have lived a lot longer than many millions of people who have died before reaching that age. I'm 32 ... if I get hit by a bus this evening you will have lived longer than I... but I won't spend my life worrying about the day I die.

There's no need to piss away whatever time we have left. If you are having trouble getting away from feelings of hopelessness and despair, get some help. Your life doesn't have to be that way.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 10:38:35 AM
thanks for repying back but when i finally get to the absolute conclusion that their is no god like you im outta here like yesteryear. i have had money happiness love joy family and peace for moments in this life but they are all false illusions and of no profit under the sun if there is no god. i have pondered everything you believe multiple upon multiple times during so called time. and in response to being alive is a good thing-tell me what is good? and then please explain why. is good not relative? so please relate. not trying to bash you or anything or argue just speaking what i call the reality of truth. mans destiny is to die, and if death does not mean separation from the body it means total peace and tranquility(iwas happiest befor i was born). memories and legacy mean nothing to me. the only conclusion i can come up with, is that the only reason to live is vanity the thing i hate most!

nothing is realrob
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on November 30, 2011, 10:52:58 AM
The purpose of life is to live.  Nothing more, nothing less.  So you get out of it what you put into it.

And yes, good is relative.  But the key to remember is that 'relative' depends on your perspective.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: plethora on November 30, 2011, 11:15:37 AM
thanks for repying back but when i finally get to the absolute conclusion that their is no god like you im outta here like yesteryear.

Hey ... it's your life.

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i have had money happiness love joy family and peace for moments in this life

You have experienced moments of happiness, love, joy and peace. I fail to see the illusion in that. That was real.

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but they are all false illusions and of no profit under the sun if there is no god.

This is where you are wrong. So what if there is no god? Does that make your happy moments less happy or less meaningful just because your existence is finite? Hell no.

What kind of 'profit' were you expecting other than to have the opportunity to experience those moments of love, joy, happiness and peace?

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i have pondered everything you believe multiple upon multiple times during so called time.

A bit presumptuous of you to assume you know everything I believe and have already thought of it all multiple times... and whether you like it or not, "time" exists.

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and in response to being alive is a good thing-tell me what is good? and then please explain why. is good not relative?

You're right about 'good' being relative... or rather, subjective. Being alive is good for me. Maybe being alive is something you don't classify as 'good'. In that case, maybe the best thing for you is not to be alive at all. If somebody doesn't like being alive they certainly shouldn't be forced to... maybe you feel obliged to stay alive because of your beliefs ... in which case, it sucks to be you.

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so please relate. not trying to bash you or anything or argue just speaking what i call the reality of truth.

I'm not bashing either... I understand what you're saying.

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mans destiny is to die, and if death does not mean separation from the body it means total peace and tranquility(iwas happiest befor i was born). memories and legacy mean nothing to me. the only conclusion i can come up with, is that the only reason to live is vanity the thing i hate most!

The existence of humanity is finite. The same goes for our planet, our sun and all of life in the universe. The universe will eventually cease to be able to support any kind of life. There is no 'destiny'. Reality is what it is.

Now, I chose to value and cherish this one life I have. It's the only one I'm going to get. I don't see the vanity in accepting what I am... a finite being who's existence will become meaningless eventually after I die and everything dies.

So what? I am alive now. My life, humanity, this planet... it all has meaning to me now. What I am experiencing, I am experiencing now. That's what matters.

If you want to go down the nihilist path, then by all means, do so. I'm sorry you dislike your existence. But don't accuse me of being vain when you're the one who wants to believe in a god that created everything especially for us humans and promises everyone eternal life. That there is nothing but pure human vanity.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on November 30, 2011, 11:17:06 AM
thanks for repying back but when i finally get to the absolute conclusion that their is no god like you im outta here like yesteryear. i have had money happiness love joy family and peace for moments in this life but they are all false illusions and of no profit under the sun if there is no god.
Way to devalue your family, love, joy, and peace for your fear of a god that doesn’t exist. How sad. 
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i have pondered everything you believe multiple upon multiple times during so called time. and in response to being alive is a good thing-tell me what is good?
Well, the things you insisted were worthless, like family, money, happiness, love, joy, etc.  What isn’t good is a mindless devotion to something that breaks its promises, as your religion and god have done. 
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and then please explain why. is good not relative? so please relate. not trying to bash you or anything or argue just speaking what i call the reality of truth. mans destiny is to die, and if death does not mean separation from the body it means total peace and tranquility(iwas happiest befor i was born). memories and legacy mean nothing to me. the only conclusion i can come up with, is that the only reason to live is vanity the thing i hate most!
Good is largely subjective.  I find that good is anything that I enjoy in that it harms no one else.  Man’s destiny is to live and then to die. Do what you can with your life rather than whining about how bad it is without your imaginary friend. Love your family, help another human, it’s not that hard to find meaning. It’s a lot harder to find a god that doesn’t exist. 
Honestly, if you are an amputee (which I do honestly doubt and think that you are a poe), you need some counseling.  Go see a real human and talk this out rather than depending on a god that does nothing.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 11:17:20 AM
see this is the only reason i still hold on to god!!i wish you could make me believe their is no god. (this athiest belief has nothing to offer me but total peace in a so called nonexistence/ athiesm is nonexistence). no god no truth no reality no purpose no perspective no life no death. follow me to  beyond fear. fear is the only thing that binds you to this earth realm. every so called TRUE athiest should be dead right now. for those who have ears let them hear and walk this path. dont be scared to go there. the bible says fear is the beginning to wisdom. true athiesm=NO FEAR=death their is no so called life in fear

nothing is realrob
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 11:20:15 AM
what is sad?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 11:24:38 AM
i dont claim their is a god i just dont know
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 11:26:31 AM
give me a reason not to believe and still live! and not a reason that is finite or not real!
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 11:30:46 AM

[/quote]

Hey ... it's your life.

Hey now you are spitting some REALNESS!!!

Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: plethora on November 30, 2011, 11:33:03 AM
see this is the only reason i still hold on to god!!i wish you could make me believe their is no god. (this athiest belief has nothing to offer me but total peace in a so called nonexistence/ athiesm is nonexistence).

Guess what? Whether you believe in god or not ... when you die, you cease to exist. I am not offering anything. I'm just stating reality.

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no god no truth no reality no purpose no perspective no life no death. follow me to  beyond fear. fear is the only thing that binds you to this earth realm. every so called TRUE athiest should be dead right now.

I'm an atheist... not a nihilist.

Just because there is no god doesn't mean everything else you listed doesn't exist.

Truth, reality, purpose, perspective, life and death are all things that exist ... and they don't depend on the existence of a god.

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for those who have ears let them hear and walk this path. dont be scared to go there. the bible says fear is the beginning to wisdom. true athiesm=NO FEAR=death their is no so called life in fear

Preaching the bible? You gotta be kidding me. The bible is a meaningless work of fiction. Might as well quote Harry Potter.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: plethora on November 30, 2011, 11:34:02 AM
give me a reason not to believe and still live! and not a reason that is finite or not real!

Fuck you, Rob. It's now obvious you are a troll and a poe. I'm sorry I wasted my time with you.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 11:34:53 AM
oh i so agree but i love ecclesiastes how bout you.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 11:38:22 AM
why are you so mad i have never in my life blogged before and everything i said is TRUE and to be honest this blog is enlightening me as we are speaking. but i think i am leaning more to god side of things in the last few hours
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 11:43:15 AM
hey look dont get offended im just debating i am looking for truth and  from my perspective so far you dont have it. i need proof there is no god to become an athiet
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: hickdive on November 30, 2011, 11:54:02 AM
i need proof there is no god to become an athiet

Is that like how you need proof there are no leprechauns before you become an aleprechaunist?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on November 30, 2011, 11:55:02 AM
what is sad?

that yo have good things and you don't appreciate them.  It's rather a pity that they are wasted on people like you or the person you represent yourself to be, which is rather pathetic and whiny.   

I'm wondering if you need evidence that there is no Allah or Krishna to not believe in them too. Now, considering how no god has any evidence support it, you have all the reason you need to not believe in your god too.   I was once a Christian, Rob, and now I'm not.  I am no longer afraid of this god who does nothing nor am I vainly waiting for it to do something.  I am quite happy with my life, though I'm guessing you are desperately hoping I'm not.   I know I only have one life and I am enjoying it to its fullest.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 11:56:58 AM
what are good things that i dont appreciate?. I WANT TO KNOW WHO TOLD SOCIETY WHAT IS GOOD OR NOT? please SOMEBODY. anybody
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 11:57:56 AM
no idont need jesus krishna hindu voodoo whatever i need truth
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:02:19 PM
anybody got any truth here if ill leave this forum and know that athiesm is not what i once thought it was.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: hickdive on November 30, 2011, 12:02:46 PM
what are good things that i dont appreciate?. I WANT TO KNOW WHO TOLD SOCIETY WHAT IS GOOD OR NOT? please SOMEBODY. anybody

Why do you need someone to tell you?

Why not determine for yourself what you appreciate?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:04:03 PM
anybody got any truth here if ill leave this forum and know that athiesm is not what i once thought it was.
anybody got any truth here if NOT ill leave this forum and know that athiesm is not what i once thought it was. this has been one of the most enlightening moments of my life
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:07:23 PM
because ive tried to find truth my whole life and you people in this forum seem to know it i want to know how you know it that is why
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on November 30, 2011, 12:10:18 PM
what are good things that i dont appreciate?. I WANT TO KNOW WHO TOLD SOCIETY WHAT IS GOOD OR NOT? please SOMEBODY. anybody

read your own post, Rob. Your family, your money, love, peace.  And read others, rather than wallowing in your own ignorance. What is good in society is generally what is good for the many.  We have empathy to know that we don't want something bad done to us so we don't do it to others. 

If you want truth, think for yourself. Read that bible of yours and understand what it really says, not what a pastor or priest tells you. Look into other religions and see how similar they are to your own, which means that they are simply human creations.  It seems that you are only looking for validation of your own delusions and not the truth at all.  Atheism is only the disbelieve in god or gods, not nihilism or whatever else you've convinced yourself that it is.  We all have our own other thoughts and assumptions so don't go away with thinking we are only one thing, whatever that might be.  We simply don't accept ignorance or a refusal to look at the evidence.

The bible is full of contradictions and out right nonsense.  No reason to believe it.  I accept as true what I can find evidence for and religion and gods don't have any.   That's how I nkow what is true and what isn't, not blindly accepting stories that someone else told me with nothing to back them up.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: hickdive on November 30, 2011, 12:13:07 PM
anybody got any truth here if ill leave this forum and know that athiesm is not what i once thought it was.

Atheism is simply the absence of belief, it has no central tenets, political views, philosophy or anything else. The fact that atheists are normal human beings who each have their own central tenets, philosophies and political views in no way colours atheism.

You've already confused atheism with nihilism and now you're demanding the truth from it (atheism). In fact atheism can offer you nothing of the sort because in itself it is simply unbelief. What anyone gets from their absence of belief is entirely up to them, just as it would be up to you.

I'm not yet convinced you're a troll or poe but I strongly suggest you have a good look round the forums as I suspect you believe you've come here with a new and startling revelation that will change the views of atheists. A quick search will disabuse you of that notion.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:15:55 PM
so you believe there is no belief thats just funny
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on November 30, 2011, 12:16:46 PM
Why should lack of fear result in desiring the thing not feared?  The fact that something isn't scary doesn't mean it's something that I want.

To put it another way, I am not scared of having my computer infected by malware, because I know how to fix it and remove the malware.  But that in no way means that I want to have my computer infected by malware, because it it makes me waste time I could be spending doing things I want to do.  Death is the same way; the fact that death may not be scary doesn't mean that it's a state to be desired.

The fact that something does not cause fear does not mean that it is something desirable.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:21:41 PM
the fact is their is no such thing as unbelief. it is what it is.  we breathe faith fear unbelief or belief theirfore we are faith fear unbelief or belief. i think i just stumbled onto a nice litle nugget of truth thank all of you for your very good arguments
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:23:20 PM
theirfore we are faithbeings as well as human beings
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: hickdive on November 30, 2011, 12:23:56 PM
so you believe there is no belief thats just funny

No. Atheism is the absence of belief in god.

I can no more change the definition of atheism to 'the belief there is no belief' than I can change the definition of the word 'transgender' to mean an ice-cream dessert with six flavours.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:24:51 PM
im going to print this blog this was an awesome experience!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: One Above All on November 30, 2011, 12:28:59 PM
im going to print this blog this was an awesome experience!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you trying to say that you came here under false pretense or that we cheered you up?
I hope it's the latter.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:29:10 PM
so you do have faith in matter aka(the supernatural because nothing times nothing does not equal something) or the religion of darwinism which takes alot more faith than i can muster.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:33:34 PM
no i just found out athiesm is darwinism i think according to some of your post and i have no faith in darwin because that is makes no rational or logical sense.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:34:59 PM
do we all agree we are faithbeings?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: One Above All on November 30, 2011, 12:38:49 PM
no i just found out athiesm is darwinism i think according to some of your post and i have no faith in darwin because that is makes no rational or logical sense.

Sorry, but you are mistaken.

Here's a long, but accurate, explanation:
Evolution is a fact. There is also the scientific theory of evolution.
A scientific theory, by definition, is supported by evidence and attempts to explain a scientific fact.

Faith is belief in something for which there is no evidence.
Evolution (the theory and the fact) is supported by evidence; therefore evolution is neither a religion nor something that requires faith. Just because you cannot understand it does not make it false.

Atheism is the lack of belief in any deities. We do not worship or believe in any gods. That is the only thing we all have in common. Beyond that, we can accept or reject everything else as we see fit. Also note that each of us has their own reasons to lack belief in deities. Never assume that one atheist's reason is the same as another.
There are atheists who believe in the supernatural, just like there are those who reject it. There are atheists who accept all scientific theories, and there are atheists who reject some scientific theories. There may even be atheists who reject all scientific theories.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:43:20 PM
oh so evolution is THE TRUTH! does evolution believe in infinite, and if not you are believing in the supernatural and that would take faith. ARE YOU KIDDING ME WITH THE EVOLUTION IS FACT thing.\

oh wait their is no way around it everything is supernatural.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: One Above All on November 30, 2011, 12:44:44 PM
oh so evolution is THE TRUTH! does evolution believe in infinite, and if not you are believing in the supernatural and that would take faith. ARE YOU KIDDING ME WITH THE EVOLUTION IS FACT thing.\

oh wait their is no way around it everything is supernatural.

I've been extremely nice here. I do not approve of this message, nor do I approve of your ignorance and I am also starting to doubt your OP.
Rewrite this message using proper grammar and without the condescending tone.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:47:10 PM
what doesw OP mean?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: One Above All on November 30, 2011, 12:47:33 PM
what doesw OP mean?

Original Post. In your case, it's the email you sent.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on November 30, 2011, 12:48:55 PM
oh so evolution is THE TRUTH! does evolution believe in infinite, and if not you are believing in the supernatural and that would take faith. ARE YOU KIDDING ME WITH THE EVOLUTION IS FACT thing.\

oh wait their is no way around it everything is supernatural.

Mmmm, ignorance and hypocrisy.  You, Rob, benefit from evolutionary theory every day.  It's a fact that you have no problem with as long as it makes you comfy.  And you hypocritically attack it when it shows that you aren't a special snowflake.

I'm guessing you are about 14 and are amazingly ill-educated.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:52:11 PM
no this forum contacted and emailed me and i have replied with logical questions about your faith and i am enjoying it by the way all in fun and no animosity. i did not know this was a blogging sight i have never in my life participated in a blog for any reason. i wasnt really sure what a blog was till today. but what im finding out is extraordinary. so i surely hope you dont kick me off this forum now when im really starting to learn what athiesm is all about.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 12:54:21 PM
no im 34 and will send a pic of myself when i was in the hospital when my wife gets home so i can get the pic off her camera to prove it. I was at wakemed in raleigh, nc and im 34.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: One Above All on November 30, 2011, 12:56:40 PM
no this forum contacted and emailed me

You emailed the forum first. Is that or is that not your email that was posted by pianodwarf?

and i have replied with logical questions about your faith

All logic vanishes when you call atheism a type of faith, which has been pointed out to you repeatedly.

and i am enjoying it by the way all in fun and no animosity.

I did not like your condescending tone in the message I asked you to rewrite.

i did not know this was a blogging sight i have never in my life participated in a blog for any reason. i wasnt really sure what a blog was till today.

I'm assuming that velkyn's attempt to guess your age is an overestimation.

but what im finding out is extraordinary. so i surely hope you dont kick me off this forum now when im really starting to learn what athiesm is all about.

We've been explaining it to you for a while now. Hell, I responded to your PM with a very long message, almost the same one that I posted here. Yet you keep getting it wrong.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 01:01:48 PM
I have found out i am a faithbeing today and want someone to prove to me how i am not why is your religion superior to all others? how is their no such thing as faith?




no i emailed a website to let them know they made me sad and that is all. the email address is questions@whygodwanthealamputees.com and i didnt know yall would post it and talk about it till i gotan emaill back at 5 oclockthis mrning.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 01:03:28 PM
lucifer you say that is truth is power which is most definitely true. do you claim to hold the truth?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: hickdive on November 30, 2011, 01:07:21 PM
no i just found out athiesm is darwinism i think according to some of your post and i have no faith in darwin because that is makes no rational or logical sense.

Which post leads you to equate atheism with darwinism and what leads you to believe that darwinism is a 'faith'?

In fact, let's get a bit more basic; what do you mean when you write 'darwinism'?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 01:07:41 PM
why do you have to make remarks about my age like that? im not offended by you nor should you, by me i call you bluff on truth thats all. dont take it personally.  please


personally i know i am ignorant when it comes to truth but you have no real evidence of anything besides what a book has told you.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: naemhni on November 30, 2011, 01:09:21 PM
no i emailed a website to let them know they made me sad and that is all. the email address is questions@whygodwanthealamputees.com and i didnt know yall would post it and talk about it till i gotan emaill back at 5 oclockthis mrning.

Hi, Rob, welcome to WWGHA.  My use of green boldface indicates that I am speaking as a moderator, not as a forum participant.

I am the "mailman" for the two sites, "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?" and "God Is Imaginary".  Emails sent to the questions@whywontgodhealamputees.com address come to my attention.  Most letters that are on-topic, as yours was, are posted anonymously to the "Mailbag" section of the WWGHA forums for comment by the forum "regulars", and a form letter -- the same one I sent you this morning -- is then sent to the letter writer, giving a link to the thread and also a link to the registration form you used to sign up for participation in the forums.  I hope this clears up any confusion you may have.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 01:14:03 PM
in regards to lucifer this statement that "All logic vanishes when you call atheism a type of faith, which has been pointed out to you repeatedly." defies logic itself.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 01:16:02 PM
you are pretty much saying that statement is truth. and that my friend would take faith.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on November 30, 2011, 01:22:27 PM
rob:  I have to question whether you're actually reading the same posts that other people are writing, because you are drawing irrational conclusions that do not follow from what others are saying.

To put it simply, I have no faith in the 'supernatural', because the term itself is nonsense.  Anything that happens is natural; therefore things that happen that we do not understand are also natural.  People may describe those things as supernatural, but they are still natural regardless of the descriptive word used for them.  I also have no faith in the natural, because whether I believe in it or not does not matter.  If I believe the sun will not rise tomorrow, it will still rise.

In other words, I do not have faith, I have knowledge.  I do not assume that I can affect the outcome of things which I do not have knowledge of by believing one way or the other, which is what faith is about.  Truth does not require faith.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 01:27:25 PM
knowledge is truth and truth definitely takes faith
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on November 30, 2011, 01:29:40 PM
why do you have to make remarks about my age like that? im not offended by you nor should you, by me i call you bluff on truth thats all. dont take it personally.  please


personally i know i am ignorant when it comes to truth but you have no real evidence of anything besides what a book has told you.

No, Rob, that's not true at all. It's a lie you've told yourself.  I have plenty of real evidence and reason to trust those books, if I can't get the evidence myself.  And you accept that evidence too, but only when convenient for you.  That's is pure ignorance and hypocrisy.  If you don't think that science works, why are you using a computer, using that modern medicine at Wake, etc?  You see, your claims don't match up with your actions.  You create excuses on why yuo can use the very thing that shows the supernatural and gods to be nonsense.

All a Christian has is indeed only a book, one that contradicts itself and makes no sense.  They have built an industry on trying to explain what God "really" meant.

Your calling atheisim a faith and a religion shows how ignorant you are.  Your attempt to claim that telling you that you are wrong "defies logic" itself, shows that you have no idea what logic is.  You thrown around words that you have no clue about.   You also think that one has to have faith in everything.  That's also not true. Faith is beleivign things with no evidence.   That is not being used when an atheist presents evidence that there is no god or "faithbeings" whatever the heck that is.  That is trust in the evidence, trust earned.  Faith and trust do not mean the same thing, no matter how desperatly a theists wants them to. 

Your refusal to be corrected by people who indeed should know what they are talking about since they *are* atheists, simply shows that you are not interested in dicussion but clinging to your ignorance. Truth takes no faith, it only takes evidence and intellect.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 01:33:51 PM
so do creationists
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 01:38:01 PM
evidence and intellect are faith in action
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: hickdive on November 30, 2011, 01:51:00 PM
knowledge is truth and truth definitely takes faith

How much 'faith' does it take to believe in the truth of gravity?

I'm afraid your absence of knowledge and understanding of the terms you're using prevents you from engaging in debate at the level you think you can manage.

I'll leave it at that for the moment and hope when you go away (and you will) that you might then try to improve yourself to the point it would be worthwhile engaging in debate with you.


Goodnight.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 01:56:25 PM
truth is, their is no  truth! only faith! so that would make faith truth!
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 02:22:44 PM
so that would mean that truth is whatever you decide to believe. truth is timeless and boundless and mysterious but for the athiest it is evolution and for christians it is  jesus. so i guess you should believe in who has the best afterlife and which one produces the best fruit for peace in this life. christianity really does make alot of sense and jesus would definitely be a good choice of charecter from what ive read. what do yall think why should i choose athiesm over christianity or anything else.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on November 30, 2011, 02:28:38 PM
evidence and intellect are faith in action

Nice attempt to redefine faith so your arguments don't fail.  Seen that before, never works just shows more ignorance.  You need to indicate who you are responding to, Rob.  What do creationists also do? 

Truth is not what you decide to believe. Again, you try to redefine words and that always fails.  Truth is what is supported by the evidence.  You try to make truth sound all ooga-booga but it isn't.  So again you fail.  Evolution is supported by evidence. Jesus is not.   And all you are doing is making Pascal's wager, hopsing that your god and your belief are right with again, no evidence to support that.  Deciding to believe in a fairy tale doesn't make it true.

Have you read your bible, Rob?  If you had, you'd see that JC is not the wonderful character that your pastor/priest claims.  He lies to people intentionally to make sure they can't be saved. He wants people who don't accept him as "king" murdered.   Your god is a genocidal idiots who can't get anythign right.  There are better religions out there, much better ones, however again they aren't supported by any evidence.  Atheism, not a religion only the disbelief in god/gods, is supported by evidence.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on November 30, 2011, 02:41:33 PM
Faith is a belief in something that can't be proven.  Truth is something that can be proven.  Therefore, truth is not faith, and faith is not truth.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 02:42:58 PM
mam please give me hard evidence of your beliefs and ill believe i promise(and dont tell me some book like a christian would) science cant disproove the second the law of thermodynamics)  i could point you too a hundred books that give evidence for god . the second law of thermodynamics disprooves your religion alone. along with knowing how corrupt government alone by itself  is, and that just so happens to be what they identify as truth. and i dont believe anything they say do you?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 02:44:11 PM
truth is backed up by evidence where is yours?


if there is none their is only faith.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on November 30, 2011, 02:55:11 PM
truth is backed up by evidence where is yours?

if there is none their is only faith.
I assume you're talking about evolution?  If not, you will have to clarify what you are talking about.

So, evidence for evolution.  First, the fossil record, the fact that we can trace lines of descent by dating fossilized bones and comparing them to other fossilized bones that are similar but different in significant ways.  Second, the biological relationship between humans and other organisms, such as the fact that we can do medical tests on animals in order to determine how a human might react to the same test without actually having to test them; similarly, the fact that virtually all multi-cell organisms have mitochondria symbiotes which do the work of converting food into energy that the organism can actually use.  Third, the adaptation of organisms to their environment, complete with physical alterations which serve to better adapt it, such as so-called 'racial' differences between humans who live in different areas.  Humans who lived for generations upon generations in Africa, India, and America have darker skin colors than humans who lived for generations upon generations in Europe and most parts of Asia[1], which is a physical adaptation to the amount of sunlight those areas tend to receive.

Shall I go on?  This is just a small sampling of the actual evidence in favor of evolutionary theory.  There's plenty more available out there.
 1. Note that this refers to literally hundreds of generations, thousands of years of actual time.  It is not a change that just happens all at once.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Aaron123 on November 30, 2011, 02:57:27 PM
science cant disproove the second the law of thermodynamics) 

Why would scientists need to?

Quote
i could point you too a hundred books that give evidence for god .

And what evidence is that?  I'm not holding my breath, expecting something great here...


Quote
the second law of thermodynamics disprooves your religion alone.


*roll eyes*  Atheism is not a religion.  No more than not collecting stamps is a hobby, or "off" is a tv channel.


Quote
along with knowing how corrupt government alone by itself  is, and that just so happens to be what they identify as truth. and i dont believe anything they say do you?

...and this remark is completely irrelevant to the subject at hand.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 03:07:16 PM
 at this moment you are quoting everything according to something. according to what though,   is the question. why are they more believable/ and the only evidence you have is creation. but that is the same evidence christians have. only difference is they actually aknowledge faith in something. which i happen to know is the only truth now.

im listening to your arguments keep coming with them
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 03:08:44 PM
    Being an athiest, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Aaron123 on November 30, 2011, 03:16:54 PM
at this moment you are quoting everything according to something. according to what though,   is the question. why are they more believable/ and the only evidence you have is creation. but that is the same evidence christians have. only difference is they actually aknowledge faith in something. which i happen to know is the only truth now.

I've tried re-reading this five times now to make sense of it, but it's nothing more than word salad.


Quote
Being an athiest, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

On the contrary, I'm very open to the possibility that god exists.  But I have yet to see actual evidence for such a being.  You're offering none so far.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 03:24:42 PM
ok good so athiesm is open to their being a god
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: One Above All on November 30, 2011, 03:26:50 PM
ok good so athiesm is open to their being a god

First, learn some grammar and spelling. Most of your posts are barely comprehensible.
Second, it's not "atheism" that is open to there being a god. It's (some) atheists. I am not one of those atheists.
I have defined what a god is in simple terms and concluded, through observation of reality, that such a being does not exist.
Long story short - it all depends on your definition of what a god is.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Aaron123 on November 30, 2011, 03:28:45 PM
ok good so athiesm is open to their being a god

Depends on who you ask.  Some are very sure that god does not exist, some will take a less "confrontational" stand on the issue.


The real question is; can you provide actual evidence for your god?  Yes or no.  If yes, then proceed to do so.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 03:30:15 PM
so you have baptist athiest and pentecostal athiests
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: One Above All on November 30, 2011, 03:32:39 PM
so you have baptist athiest and pentecostal athiests

No. We have agnostic atheists and gnostic atheists. We also have ignostic atheists and apnostic atheists.
Notice how we're spelling "atheist". The e is before the i.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 03:34:36 PM
anymore kinds i need to know about
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on November 30, 2011, 03:37:54 PM
mam please give me hard evidence of your beliefs and ill believe i promise(and dont tell me some book like a christian would) science cant disproove the second the law of thermodynamics)  i could point you too a hundred books that give evidence for god . the second law of thermodynamics disprooves your religion alone. along with knowing how corrupt government alone by itself  is, and that just so happens to be what they identify as truth. and i dont believe anything they say do you?

It's cute on how you can't even take the time to form a sentence that people can comprehend.  This lack of caring makes me concerned that you don't care at all and have no interest in actually learnign anything.  Why should I take the time to explain to someone who lies about me?  It's always nice to see a Christian false witnessing against another person. It would seem that their bible and god isn't so importantn to them at all. As you've already been told, there is more than enough evidence, but unfortunately people like you refuse to acknowledg it,  even after askign for it.  How's that for close minded?  If you could show any evidence of your god I'd be more than happy to consider it. But you don't have any, do you?  Only the vain hope that you've picked the right god and right way to worship it, just like every other theist. 

You claim that the secondn law of thermodynamics disproves atheism.  Again, you try to conflate atheism with religion.  What a pathetic liar and again we see that Christians are totally dependent on deceit, no matter how bad they are at it.

However, that doesnt' matter much since you are wrong, and I suspect haven't a clue what the second law is much less how it could impact evolutionary theory.  Tell me, in your own words how it disproves evolutionary theory.  You want to claim it, then do so, without parroting lies by creationists. 

Oh and that ol' corrupt govmint.  Hilarious on how you take advanges of the services that govmint offers but decry it.  It's always fun to see people try to attack things they don't even comprehend.   
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 03:44:47 PM
you either believe or dont believe. But by default you are believing in something and that is called faith. You cannot. Let me stress that word again CANNOT say you have a grasp on TRUTH without having faith. By default know matter what you say that you believe takes faith.

that goes back to the quote by the christian

 "Being a christian/ athiest, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else."

by default you are a being by faith.

This is fun.

Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Emergence on November 30, 2011, 03:56:58 PM
Define "faith".
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on November 30, 2011, 04:01:15 PM
Belief is not a 'default' state for humans.  It is taught, or not taught, by older humans who have developed the habit of believing.  Take a newborn child and put them into a household of atheists, and they will not believe in a religion.  Take that same newborn child and put them into a household of a given religion, and they will believe in that religion.  It is no more complicated than that.

You cannot, let me stress, CANNOT, say you have a grasp on truth by using faith.  Your belief will not change fiction into fact, or false into true.  Truth simply is, and we discover it via evidence.  Faith can never reveal truth except by accident, the same way as a broken clock will never reveal the correct time except by accident.

Also, I noticed that you basically disregarded the evidence I presented for evolution.  If you were talking to me (and believe me, it is difficult to tell just what you're saying with some of your posts), the only thing you said was, "the only evidence you have is creation, but that is the same evidence christians have".  Sorry, but 'creation' is just a term Christians use for the universe.  The crucial difference between science and religion is that religion takes things that it observes and speculates on what could have caused them (generally, the result is some supernatural being that did or does it), whereas science takes things that it observes and investigates them in order to deduce what caused them.

Guess which comes up with better results?  It isn't the one that speculates without investigating.  In other words, you can say you know the truth from now until the heat death of the universe, but unless you can demonstrate that your knowledge is accurate and provable, it is only words without substance.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 04:44:10 PM
faith defined= firm belief in something for which there is no proof


you have no absolute truth or evidence of evolution

Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Emergence on November 30, 2011, 04:46:49 PM
Name something for which "proof" exists.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 04:46:58 PM
you have disregarded he evidence that evolution can not be proven without a supernatural beginning. nothing from nothing does not equal something.

so truth is supernatural and that takes faith.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on November 30, 2011, 05:06:32 PM
you have disregarded he evidence that evolution can not be proven without a supernatural beginning. nothing from nothing does not equal something.

so truth is supernatural and that takes faith.
There is no evidence that the universe required a supernatural beginning.  If you disagree, then show the evidence that there was 'nothing' in the beginning.  If you cannot show the evidence, then be honest and admit that you have none.

Therefore, your conclusion, "so truth is supernatural and that takes faith", is null.  If there was never anything supernatural to begin with, then saying "truth is supernatural" is nonsense.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: lotanddaughters on November 30, 2011, 07:03:08 PM
so you have baptist athiest and pentecostal athiests

Poe confirmation
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Hatter23 on November 30, 2011, 07:09:04 PM
You are a big boy.  You don't need imaginary sky daddies to make things better.  Get rid of that crutch and just live life because it is there and on your own terms.  In the long run you will be healthier for it.

 perhaps "getting rid of your crutch" wasn't the most sensitive way of putting this if the writer is an amputee.

But now that I've read his posts with an argument of :"We cannot be sure of anything;therefore God" he is a complete idiot and I wouldn't worry about hurting his feelings.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: lotanddaughters on November 30, 2011, 07:12:32 PM
lucifer you say that is truth is power which is most definitely true. do you claim to hold the truth?

in regards to lucifer this statement that "All logic vanishes when you call atheism a type of faith, which has been pointed out to you repeatedly." defies logic itself.

The god of the Bible is real. This website was created by the real Lucifer, so that curious people can visit here any time and actually talk to Lucifer and hear his side of the story. Tell your friends!
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on November 30, 2011, 10:38:56 PM
in regards to hatter23 where did you get your moral authority anyway, evolution?


and lot thanks for coming out with the truth i will print this blog out  for all my friends in sunday school. maybe ill name the lesson how to out argue the religion of athiesm

one,
dIgI
 
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Astreja on December 01, 2011, 12:11:40 AM
i will print this blog out  for all my friends in sunday school. maybe ill name the lesson how to out argue the religion of athiesm...

...Thereby condemning all the honest ones to lose every single debate about atheism that they engage in, and possibly lose their faith as well.  The dishonest ones will just continue to pretend that they won the debate, learn nothing from the experience, and spiral deeper into religious delusion.  If this is how you treat your friends at church, I shudder to think of how you would treat your enemies.

give me a reason not to believe and still live! and not a reason that is finite or not real!

Stop worrying about "reasons" and just live your life to the best of your ability.  Don't expect for there to be a single overriding purpose for Life, the Universe and everything -- There probably isn't any such thing.  IMO, purpose does not and cannot exist in the future; it can only exist in the present.

christianity really does make alot of sense and jesus would definitely be a good choice of charecter from what ive read.

You think that Christianity makes sense?  *snort* *giggle*

Are you talking about the belief that: 
Ah.  This must be some strange new definition of "makes sense" that I previously wasn't aware of.

Seriously, if you think that accepting the alleged sacrifice of Jesus makes you a better person, you've got a really big problem.  Please take your moral compass in for servicing at the first possible opportunity.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 01, 2011, 09:37:53 AM
in regards to hatter23 where did you get your moral authority anyway, evolution?


and lot thanks for coming out with the truth i will print this blog out  for all my friends in sunday school. maybe ill name the lesson how to out argue the religion of athiesm

one,
dIgI

well, at least you'll have a lovely example of how Christians ignore their own bible and god and lie constantly.  How nice for you! 
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Hatter23 on December 01, 2011, 10:01:15 AM
in regards to hatter23 where did you get your moral authority anyway, evolution?


and lot thanks for coming out with the truth i will print this blog out  for all my friends in sunday school. maybe ill name the lesson how to out argue the religion of athiesm

one,
dIgI
well, at least you'll have a lovely example of how Christians ignore their own bible and god and lie constantly.  How nice for you!


Is he just a liar?, because it seems more like a troll to me. Though this post is rather obvious evidence of lying....given what he previously stated his age was.

He is pulling all the basic hot button strawmen out, even when they don't apply. So very trollish looking to me.



Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 01, 2011, 11:00:11 AM
Is he just a liar?, because it seems more like a troll to me. Though this post is rather obvious evidence of lying....given what he previously stated his age was.

He is pulling all the basic hot button strawmen out, even when they don't apply. So very trollish looking to me.

oh very trollish too, but intentionally trying to misrepresent atheism as a "religion", a lovely and oft repeated lie.  I wonder how much he has to pray to get that sin taking of his "book of life". 
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on December 01, 2011, 12:10:09 PM
and lot thanks for coming out with the truth i will print this blog out  for all my friends in sunday school. maybe ill name the lesson how to out argue the religion of athiesm

one,
dIgI
You do know that lotanddaughters was being purely sarcastic, right?  I realize it's hard for someone of your age[1] to detect sarcasm, especially over the internet, but the correct response would have been to ask rather than take such a 180-degree statement at face value.  Maybe you should name the lesson, "How to lose an argument with atheists", because if you took this to a disinterested third party and asked their opinion, they would certainly confirm that you got the worst of things by far.
 1. as evidenced by your statement of sharing this with your friends in Sunday School; a 34-year old adult would not need to attend Sunday School in the first place, and if they were a teacher of Sunday School, they would not refer to the actual students as their friends.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 01, 2011, 12:25:05 PM
Jaime, we actually had an adults class in what we called our sunday school.  So it's not totally out of the question.  Age doesnt' speak anythign towards intelligence. 
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Gnu Ordure on December 01, 2011, 12:45:09 PM
This 'discussion' reeks of insincerity.

Possibly a poe; definitely a troll.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on December 01, 2011, 12:51:33 PM
Jaime, we actually had an adults class in what we called our sunday school.  So it's not totally out of the question.  Age doesnt' speak anythign towards intelligence.
Perhaps, but I still don't see it as likely.  I can grant that he might be a teacher of Sunday School who's going to make this into a 'lesson', but if that were the case, I consider it to be highly inappropriate for him to refer to students, even students his own age, as friends.  And if he's not a teacher, why is he talking about making a lesson?

The 'age' comment is because it's been demonstrated that teenagers and children have trouble with things like sarcasm that adults can pick up on more easily and readily.  On the other hand, this could just as easily be because of the problem most people have detecting things like sarcasm over the Internet.  So I could be wrong here, and if I am, then I'll retract it.  But so far, I'm unconvinced that he's in his thirties.  It isn't just the Sunday School thing, either.  The way he writes does not suggest the maturity of a 30+ adult, for one thing.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Hatter23 on December 01, 2011, 07:09:31 PM
Jaime, we actually had an adults class in what we called our sunday school.  So it's not totally out of the question.  Age doesnt' speak anythign towards intelligence.
Perhaps, but I still don't see it as likely.  I can grant that he might be a teacher of Sunday School who's going to make this into a 'lesson', but if that were the case, I consider it to be highly inappropriate for him to refer to students, even students his own age, as friends.  And if he's not a teacher, why is he talking about making a lesson?

The 'age' comment is because it's been demonstrated that teenagers and children have trouble with things like sarcasm that adults can pick up on more easily and readily.  On the other hand, this could just as easily be because of the problem most people have detecting things like sarcasm over the Internet.  So I could be wrong here, and if I am, then I'll retract it.  But so far, I'm unconvinced that he's in his thirties.  It isn't just the Sunday School thing, either.  The way he writes does not suggest the maturity of a 30+ adult, for one thing.

I second that his writing shows a lack of sophistication that would either indicate middle school age, or English as a second language. However, given the general lack of maturity in content, but at least knowing the typical hot button troll issues for atheists....somewhere between 12 and 16 years of age.

But that's just speculation, really it is just another troll operating under the mistaken notion that irritating equals clever.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 01, 2011, 10:12:13 PM
no im not sophisticated(dont care about being that anyway)nor am i  that smart or intelligent compared to this world especially in literacy, i agree. i dont sit around and ponder athiesm or philosophy. no i dont know the same definitions of things that you know nor do i know what a poe or a nihillism is or anything else you talk about or say like that, nor am i that good at grammer, but yesterday i know that i know what i was revealed and given is some of the greatest knowledge and revelation of wisdom i personally have ever known or received.

1.i found out and actually understand now that i am purely a being of faith.
2.i found out that our soul/ mind is molecule for molecule what faith is.
3.absolute truth is whatever you believe.
4.their is no escaping faith!!!!!!it is, what it is , what it is.


the most ironic thing to me, is that i got this revelation from an athiest website.

pick on me call me names or whatever i dont care i gained alot of freedom. thats what matters most for me. i hope yall have a good life eventhough i still dont understand how you can know what good is, besides listening to whatever society tells you. the way i understand it, is that you are striving to be a  slave to the rules of man and i am striving to be a slave to love.

at this moment i know that faith operates by love, and that perfect love casts out fear but i just dont know or understand how yet, and that is the revelation of absolute understanding that i am working on now. that will be beautiful.

peacerob
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 01, 2011, 10:21:36 PM
oh yeah i guess its sad to say from your perspective and because i guess you compare me to your own intellectual/(aka faith womb)  grandness but i really am 34 years of age and no im not troll or poe or whatever.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 01, 2011, 10:33:53 PM
no im not that smart or intelligent, i agree. i dont sit around and ponder athiesm or philosophy. no i dont know the same definitions of things that you know nor do i know what a poe or a nihillism is or anything else you talk about or say like that, nor am i that good at grammer, but yesterday i know that i know what i was revealed and given is some of the greatest knowledge and revelation of wisdom i personally have ever known or received.

1.i found out and actually understand now that i am purely a being of faith.
2.i found out that our soul/ mind is molecule for molecule what faith is.
3.absolute truth is whatever you believe.
4.their is no escaping faith!!!!!!it is, what it is , what it is.

the most ironic thing to me, is that i got this revelation from an athiest website.

pick on me call me names or whatever i dont care i gained alot of freedom. thats what matters most for me. i hope yall have a good life eventhough i still dont understand how you can know what good is, besides listening to whatever society tells you. the way i understand it, is that you are striving to be a  slave to the rules of man and i am striving to be a slave to love.

at this moment i know that faith operates by love, and that perfect love casts out fear but i just dont know or understand how yet, and that is the revelation of absolute understanding that i am working on now. that will be beautiful.

peacerob

sorry i did not mean to repost that quote dont even know how i did that cause i was trying to figure that out yesterday. no i dont teach sunday school nor will this be a lesson.(that was a lie because yall were gangin up on me and i wanted to aggrevate you at that moment and yes i kind of knew he was being sarcastic though not completely sure) im sure you didnt always understand where i was coming from nor did i always understand where you were coming from. personally for me it was a great experience but i cant change your mind about anything. whatever you believe is absolute truth so dont stop believing, i guess, if it makes you happy. though i personally believe in something totally different. i think faith could be explained like a shadow, the only way to get away from it is to be in the dark.

Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on December 01, 2011, 11:28:33 PM
Faith is like a shadow, huh?  Between the fact that shadows are always distorted, and that when you're looking at shadows you're ignoring the real world, that's a good analogy for how useless faith is for actually discovering anything.

Of course, I know that what you meant is that 'everyone' has faith, like everyone has a shadow, but frankly that's a statement made from ignorance.  Faith is belief in something not provable.  If you can prove it, or work towards proving it, it isn't based on faith.  Science can be progressively proven to be more and more true (including evolutionary theory), therefore it is not based on faith, and your proposition that everyone has faith is false.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 01, 2011, 11:38:35 PM
evolution will never be  absolute argue that till u r blue in the face

and that statement i made was the only thing i said thats not absolute just clever to me

in fact tell me all the rasons why evolution is true i got all night

theory does not equal absolute evolution is only absolute cause you believe

faith in evolution comes by hearing, and hearing comes by reading books on evolution
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Chronos on December 02, 2011, 12:10:51 AM
... whether or not god is real my feelings are REAL no matter what you say and now they are in a  worse place than they were when i got on the internet. and ussually 100 percent of the time i feel better after i read a few testimonies. thanks for taking away my medicine and decreasing what little faith and hope i had.

Oh, cherry-picking for positive testimonies? Is that how you have to self-medicate? You need to consume saccharine stories for a diabetic high to make yourself believe in god.  Really?  How's that been working for ya?  Probably not so good if you had to visit a rational website looking for a hit.

Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: plethora on December 02, 2011, 05:16:11 AM
I've never understood what trolls get out of trolling. Does this kind of shit actually entertain them? I mean, you really have to be like 11 years old to find this kind of immature bullshit entertaining.

I can understand, given the anonymity of the internet, that some people feel the desire to pretend to be someone they are not and just flat out lie to compensate for their real life shortcomings...

But trolling for kicks? ... People who feel the need to troll for their personal entertainment are such a disgrace to the human race.

I come to this site to have meaningful, thoughtful conversations. Not for this shit.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 02, 2011, 09:47:10 AM
well, rob does a lovely job at showing how willful ignorance is all Christians really have.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on December 02, 2011, 11:44:44 AM
evolution will never be  absolute argue that till u r blue in the face
I never suggested that it was absolute.  But evolution has been proven beyond reasonable doubt.  The only time faith is necessary for something is when there is no way to prove it beyond reasonable doubt.

Quote from: rob
and that statement i made was the only thing i said thats not absolute just clever to me
Your other statements are no more 'absolute'.  They are nothing but statements based on ignorance.  You are not purely a being of faith as you cannot lose faith in yourself and stop existing.  The mind and soul are not related to faith in any way, shape, or form, certainly not molecule-by-molecule as you stated.  Absolute truth can never be determined by belief because the truth is not affected by belief.  And if faith is something that is not necessary, then it can be 'escaped', or rather, disregarded.

Quote from: rob
in fact tell me all the rasons why evolution is true i got all night
Unlike you, I don't have all night.  I have to sleep sometime, and I have to work for a living.  I only have so much time available for other things, and I don't have time to sit and list all of the various reasons that evolution is true merely so you can pretend that your statement about truth being what one believes is accurate.  If you really have all night and are truly interested in trying to evaluate the truthfulness of evolutionary theory, I suggest Google as a starting point.  That will be far more efficient than me looking everything up for you.

Quote from: rob
theory does not equal absolute evolution is only absolute cause you believe
And when did I say that evolution was absolute?  You are the one assuming that it is, but you are wrong.  I consider evolution to be true as we currently understand it, but there's always room for improving our understanding of it and other things.  So there's no way it can be 'absolute'.

Quote from: rob
faith in evolution comes by hearing, and hearing comes by reading books on evolution
Leaving aside the oddity of talking about 'hearing' by reading, the fact is that I don't have faith in scientific theories.  I have the understanding that they prove true when tested, and when they do not prove true, they are revised to account for that.  That is enough for me.  You have faith in your religious beliefs because you cannot prove them to be true, therefore you can only hold them to be true by having faith in them.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 01:18:58 PM
no one has proof of truth, it is corrupt to say that. just like our justice system is flawed your argument is flawed. i am glad to know that you do not claim an absolute truth that clears alot up for me and you beliefs.

explain this to someone wrongly convicted of a crime they did not commit, there is a chance of error.
innocent people serve life sentences because of reasonable doubt all the time. with that being said all people/ general public are either innocent or guilty so that makes all people a person of interest. there is no way to escape this conclusion. the general public is either guilty or not. (state of limbo or in my argument FAITH)

so i guess your belief in evolution is definitely flawed beyond a reasonable doubt because there is legitimate proof that people are wrongly convicted on the basis of reasonable doubt. so in a court of law your argument would lose because i have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that your argument is not betyond a reasonable doubt. i dont claim i can proove Christianity to you, but to me it just makes more since because we have been created as faithbeings( that is who we are to our innermost core being) and that is a matter of faith. i know where you come from with your beliefs and how you conclude your philosophy.

by the way we are also just as much an emotional/ love/ fear being as we are a faith being.

how does athiesm decide what is moral or what is love/ hate/ fear where did that moral authority originate from? and how and why? and do you conclude that since evolution is not absolute that the only absolute is that we are a being of faith and love?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 01:25:26 PM
hearing is just another word for understanding or knowing. sorry.

in reply to chronos statement i would like to say that the way you just explained it is exactly how i explained it to my wife when i told her i like to read others healing testimonies it just help my faith and adds to my love.

you can judge me but you are not my judge so i really dont care what society thinks about me.


YOUR JUDGE/GOD IS SOCIETY OR YOUR OWN VANITY.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Aaron123 on December 02, 2011, 01:38:53 PM
no one has proof of truth, it is corrupt to say that. just like our justice system is flawed your argument is flawed. i am glad to know that you do not claim an absolute truth that clears alot up for me and you beliefs.

explain this to someone wrongly convicted of a crime they did not commit, there is a chance of error.
innocent people serve life sentences because of reasonable doubt all the time. with that being said all people/ general public are either innocent or guilty so that makes all people a person of interest. there is no way to escape this conclusion. the general public is either guilty or not. (state of limbo or in my argument FAITH)

so i guess your belief in evolution is definitely flawed beyond a reasonable doubt because there is legitimate proof that people are wrongly convicted on the basis of reasonable doubt. so in a court of law your argument would lose because i have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that your argument is not betyond a reasonable doubt. i dont claim i can proove Christianity to you, but to me it just makes more since because we have been created as faithbeings( that is who we are to our innermost core being) and that is a matter of faith. i know where you come from with your beliefs and how you conclude your philosophy.

by the way we are also just as much an emotional/ love/ fear being as we are a faith being.

You said you're 34.  If you're 34, then why can't you clean up your grammar and punctuations?  As it is, your posts comes off as word salad.


Quote
how does athiesm decide what is moral or what is love/ hate/ fear where did that moral authority originate from? and how and why?

First of all, "atheism" does not decide anything.  Individuals decides what is moral and what isn't.

Second, we get morality from our sense of compassion/empathy.  Can you explain how, why, and where your god got his morality from?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 02, 2011, 01:44:17 PM
so i guess your belief in evolution is definitely flawed beyond a reasonable doubt because there is legitimate proof that people are wrongly convicted on the basis of reasonable doubt. so in a court of law your argument would lose because i have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that your argument is not betyond a reasonable doubt. i dont claim i can proove Christianity to you, but to me it just makes more since because we have been created as faithbeings( that is who we are to our innermost core being) and that is a matter of faith. i know where you come from with your beliefs and how you conclude your philosophy.

as always it's entertaining to watch someone who has no idea or understanding of evolution attack it.  Rob, your ignorance is astounding.  Now that can be helped by education, but I'm guesing you are against that too.  You are such an amazing hypocrite.  You attack and deride the same science that you benefit from everyday.  That same science supports evolutionary theory and that very theory keeps you healthy thanks to our understanding of it by allowing us to work with antibiotics.  Your food, your medicine, the computer you are typing on depend on the science you claim is wrong. 

It's a shame that people like you can use that science.  To keep you from being such hypocrites, you should be relegated to living in mud huts with just as much chance of dying of diarrhea as those primitives you take your religion from.   
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 01:49:35 PM
again why all the personal attacks about my worldly knowledge. i dont claim to have absolute truth on worldly knowledge again i will state NOR DO I WANT IT( screw sophistication, looks, clothes or anything else of the sort. it profits me nothing.) for you i guess it means everything though. i am no ones judge why do you act like you are mine.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 01:52:59 PM
im not attacking evolution just stating facts. again evolution is absolute truth because you believe and thats the only reason why. its not absolute for me though. so we are both right and both wrong in our philosophys. but faith and love can not be denied.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 02, 2011, 01:59:31 PM
again why all the personal attacks about my worldly knowledge. i dont claim to have absolute truth on worldly knowledge again i will state NOR DO I WANT IT( screw sophistication, looks, clothes or anything else of the sort. it profits me nothing.) for you i guess it means everything though. i am no ones judge why do you act like you are mine.
Because you can't support a thing you claim, Rob.  I guess I'm a prophet since I see yet one more willfully ignorant Christian.  I wonder what you do for a living since you don't like worldly knowledge.   

And I act as your judge because someone must when the willfully ignorant try to spread their nonsense.  You are a hypocrite and getting quite close to being a simple liar since you can't back up your claims and you try to conflate religion with atheism after beign told very plainly they are not the same.  How does your god feel about lies and liars, Rob, and bearing false witness?  In Romans 3, it even says that your god hates lies told supposedly "for" him. 

You are attacking evolutionary theory.  Please don't think we're that dumb.  Evolutionary theory is supported by evidence and that shows it's correct, not just because I believe.  &)It fits what we see in the world.  It shows any creation story nonsense to be simply one more myth, just like how the Vikings thought a cow licked ice and started the world.

Faith and love do exists, but that does not show that any god exists at all.   Humans have them, no gods needed.  We also have morals but those do change over time.  So do the supposed morals of your god, since Christians once were okay with slavery and now, by and large, hate it.  For a supposedly unchanging all-powerful deity, it always plays catch up with puny humans.  Not much of a god. 
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 02:01:41 PM
where does a sense of compassion and empathy come from? can evolution logically explain faith and love?


are you really so blind to the truth or are you just acting?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 02:13:27 PM
also in Romans chpt 3 21 thru 26 it says we are redeemed for all past present and future lies and the Bible also says we are sealed by that forever more by grace through faith. the only way to get away from that is to denounce christ the only unforgivable sin. read ephesians 2:8

i only quote scripture because you bring it up. I was not planning on doing that and i dont think you want to get in a biblical debate with me. anybody bring it if thats what they want to do and ill give you the to good to be true news of the gospel.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Aaron123 on December 02, 2011, 02:20:17 PM
where does a sense of compassion and empathy come from? can evolution logically explain faith and love?

You want to say that a magic man done it.  Can you explain where your god magic man goes his sense of morality from?  If you can't be expected to explain it, then why should I be expected to explain compassion and empathy?


Quote
are you really so blind to the truth or are you just acting?

I wonder the very same thing about you.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 02:23:20 PM
i dont have to explain what the magic man has done. its done by faith. your stumbling over the stumbling block.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Graybeard on December 02, 2011, 02:23:38 PM
[...]instead i had to be really lucky and got you(ugggh).whether or not god is real my feelings are REAL no matter what you say and now they are in a  worse place than they were when i got on the internet. and ussually 100 percent of the time i feel better after i read a few testimonies. thanks for taking away my medicine and decreasing what little faith and hope i had.
Let me give you a Bble verse: Ga:4:16: Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

It seems to me you are relying on a fictional god who does not care about your condition: Indeed, that god claims to be the author of all misery on earth, including yours:

Exodus 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

Why would a god do such a thing? It is because one of your ancestors sinned:

Exodus 20:5-6, I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

So now why blame this site. We offer sanity and reason. We believe in the science that will eventually cure people like you.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 02:32:02 PM
in response to galatians 4:16
this is paul talking to the galatians about not being influenced by jewish traditons and mixing it with Christianity.look at it context. He is telling them that there is nothing you can do to be made righteous besides believe and thats it. mot water baptism, circumcision, prayer, doing anykind of good not nothing. the only that makes you righteous in Gods eyes is belief in His Son and they are being infiltrated by some religious pharisees.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 02, 2011, 02:33:22 PM
where does a sense of compassion and empathy come from? can evolution logically explain faith and love?

are you really so blind to the truth or are you just acting?
Yes, evolutionary theory can explain that.  We have compassion and empathy becaue that helps us exist as a species.  Helping each other increases the chance for people to live and breed and pass on the caring traits.  And until you show some evidence for your nonsense, there’s no reason to think someone who is as ill-educated as you has any “truth” at all.  I may as well be listening to a Muslim or a Hindu make the same baseless claims; there’d be no difference.
Quote
also in Romans chpt 3 21 thru 26 it says we are redeemed for all past present and future lies and it also says we are sealed by that forever more. the only way to get away from that is to denounce christ the only unforgivable sin. read ephesians 2:8
Oh yes, that good ol’ unforgivable sin.  Even if you change your mind, you are still damned if you ever did this. Funny how Jesus himself never mentioned that at all, it had to be added a hundred years later.  It’s rather amusing when Christians disagree.  You claim that once saved, always saved, right?   Well, there are plenty who don’t, for example these: http://www.truthablaze.com/osasrefuted.html  Now, who should I believe, Rob? Paul or Jesus?  Who trumps the other?   
Quote
i only quote scripture because you bring it up. I was not planning on doing that and i dont think you want to get in a biblical debate with me. anybody bring it if thats what they want to do and ill give you the to good to be true news of the gospel.
Oh, sure I want to get in a biblical debate with you.  Because I know you are just as ignorant as most Christians.  You see, Rob, I was a Christian once up on a time.  I’ve read the bible as a believer and as not.  I know what it says quite well, and the various translations of it.  In that you can’t even bother to make an easily readable post, I’m not too worried about what you have to say.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Graybeard on December 02, 2011, 02:40:42 PM
in response to galatians 4:16
this is paul talking to the galatians about not being influenced by jewish traditons a...
You have missed the point and you have missed it on purpose. The context is irrelevant. The point is that Paul says he is telling the truth and that the listener should not be upset... just as the website does. The truth is not always what we want to hear, but the sensible amongst us will listen.

Just out of curiosity: do you believe that God has cursed you? I'm not suffering from anything like the thing you are, and God has not cursed me.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Aaron123 on December 02, 2011, 02:40:54 PM
i dont have to explain what the magic man has done. its done by faith. your stumbling over the stumbling block.

In short, you want me to explain, in great details, about certain things like compassion and empathy; but when it comes to your side of the argument, all you'll offer is woo.  That's about as much as I expected.  One side does all the hard work, while the other sits back and offers lazy retorts.

You are offering no reasons for me to get into a debate with you over the morality argument.  If two people are to get into a debate over something, its expected that both of them will try to put effort into their words.  Thus far, you've shown no signs on your part.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 02:42:23 PM
in regards to exodus 4:11 god did not separate his love from man, man separated his love from God. and yes in the beginning god did all this, he is the creator of all things but sin is a natural punishment(we live in a fallen world) from god thats just the way it is. he would not be a just god if he wouldnt have allowed that to happen. the good news is we are in a new covenant now and set free from sin and made right in our spirit(which happens to take faith to recognise) and that is something you decided not to believe in. i only claim absolute truth for me not for you so believe whatever you want.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 02:44:18 PM
aaron believe what you want to believe im not trying to convert you. do you feel better ?
/
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 02:46:39 PM
yes i used to think God had cursed me but that was until i learned who i was, who i was in Christ and the true nature of god as explained in the bible.  Its all faith everything takes faith>
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 02:49:07 PM
to be very honest i really have not paid any attention to what this website has said. i dont care too. i know what i believe just as you know what you believe.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Aaron123 on December 02, 2011, 02:51:08 PM
in regards to exodus 4:11 god did not separate his love from man, man separated his love from God. and yes in the beginning god did all this, he is the creator of all things but sin is a natural punishment(we live in a fallen world) from god thats just the way it is. he would not be a just god if he wouldnt have allowed that to happen. the good news is we are in a new covenant now and set free from sin and made right in our spirit(which happens to take faith to recognise) and that is something you decided not to believe in. i only claim absolute truth for me not for you so believe whatever you want.

What's your evidence that any of that is real?  If you say "it's faith", then why should I take your words over that of say... a muslim?  After all, they have their own holy book alleged to be from god Allah, and they use the same faith speak.


Quote
aaron believe what you want to believe im not trying to convert you. do you feel better ?

Should I take this to mean you can't work out the morality argument?


Quote
to be very honest i really have not paid any attention to what this website has said. i dont care too. i know what i believe just as you know what you believe.

In that case, you should take the time to read the site.  If you're going to argue things, at least know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 02:51:37 PM
in exodus 20 god was just to do that but now god would not be just to do that becaus3e of what Jesus did.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 02:56:48 PM
everybody please listen. believe what you want. that shall be the ultimate truth for you. i dont condemn you. but know that you are a being of faith and love. thats the ultimate truth for us all.
can we agree on that?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Graybeard on December 02, 2011, 02:59:14 PM
i am no ones judge why do you act like you are mine.
We are commanded by God to judge:
Leviticus 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

Psalm 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.

1st Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1st Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?.
1st Corinthians 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

Mal:3:18: Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
Obviously, as you do not judge you aren't a Christian.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 03:01:11 PM
i choose Christianity because it makes the most sense in dealing with who I really am as a being. It fills that void of Love that we all cry for in our innermost being.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 02, 2011, 03:03:02 PM
in regards to exodus 4:11 god did not separate his love from man, man separated his love from God. and yes in the beginning god did all this, he is the creator of all things but sin is a natural punishment(we live in a fallen world) from god thats just the way it is. he would not be a just god if he wouldnt have allowed that to happen. the good news is we are in a new covenant now and set free from sin and made right in our spirit(which happens to take faith to recognise) and that is something you decided not to believe in. i only claim absolute truth for me not for you so believe whatever you want.

Let me ask you, how is it "just" to intentionally create a situation where mankind was doomed to "fall"?  Or was your god too blind to see a snake in this garden, and not remove it?

and no, we aren't beigns of faith and love. Sorry, nope, can't agree on that baseless claim. It's so cute when Christians try to make believe that everyone will believe like they do. 

Gee, you didn't pay attention to the website and evidently to nothign we've said here. You are lazy ignorant man. Sad really.   But typical. It's good that you now claim that you don't want to convert anyone since you've failed so far. Nice lie to tell yourself so you don't feel like a failure.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 03:06:38 PM
in respnse to Obviously, as you do not judge you aren't a Christian.

that is the most absurd statement i have ever heard about Christianity. i am not going to take the time to explain it for you but read the context and the type of judgement it is talking about and figure it out for yourself.


Matthew 7:1-5

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 03:08:59 PM
for the same reason that if you had no choice but to be a Christian. that would be very unjust wouldnt you agree.

im a failure in this life and by your standards but not by my Gods and thats all that matters to me.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: hickdive on December 02, 2011, 03:10:07 PM
everybody please listen. believe what you want. that shall be the ultimate truth for you. i dont condemn you. but know that you are a being of faith and love. thats the ultimate truth for us all.
can we agree on that?


No. Because faith is belief without evidence.

You have asked for evidence of various things in this thread and, when offered it, you have either ignored it or equated it with faith. I gave you the example of gravity as being a truth that requires no faith and you didn't even acknowledge it.

As for love, well I know what it is to love and be loved. That isn't sufficient for it to be true that I am a 'being of love', even if that was a definable thing to be.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 03:12:13 PM
gravity is not absolute and will eventuall change because it is not timeless.

i only rely on things absolute to me, not you.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 02, 2011, 03:14:12 PM
oh oh my. ROFL
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 03:21:49 PM
i only rely on things absolute, not what might be absolute.

absolute=what you believe
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Aaron123 on December 02, 2011, 03:24:13 PM
...oh dear.

Rob's not even trying anymore.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: RaymondKHessel on December 02, 2011, 03:27:46 PM
Look, I'm sorry, I've watched this go on for five pages.

Rob? You're a fucking retard homey. When they shocked your holy rollin' ass back to life at the clinic? Alllll those tasty antibiotics that kept your rusty ticker pounding are your PROOF OF EVOLUTION. They kept a dozen different viruses from creeping into your body and eating you from the inside out. Read up on it, for the love of f**k, instead of coming here, ADMITTING you know virtually nothing about what you're talking about, and then proceeding to try to slippery-snake your way through a minefield of logic that's been laid out by people infinitely smarter and better educated than you.

You can't even speak coherent sentences. Your entire worldview, and everything you've typed here, is one giant melting pot of nonsensical voodoo-talk and mystical bullshit. You sound like a fucking fortune cookie written by some goon with Down's Syndrome.

"I am a faithbeing! Truth is faith! The central stone of being is grounded in the back nine of contemporary strife channelled through conduits of meat and fiber optic cable!"

Retardsville. You're the mayor. Wear your sash with pride.

Also blatent troll. The constant "Athiesm is a religion derp!" and "I'm gonna show this too my religious buddies!", all that bullshit... Kid's a fuckin' troll, AND a douche. And your god obviously wants you dead, or he wouldn't have given a 34 year old a shitty, malfunctioning bloodpiece.

I wash my hands. Their soaked in delicious lamb's blood, by the way. I'm making chops for dinner. Mmmmm. Delicious. Now kindly f**k off.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: hickdive on December 02, 2011, 03:30:25 PM
gravity is not absolute and will eventuall change because it is not timeless.

Blimey, a Nobel prize awaits you sir.

I'm afraid that at this point I'm going to have to use the 'G' word;


GUFFAW!
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 03:30:58 PM
and Raymond I love you brother. look why dont yall just kick me off because the longer i debate with you the stronger my faith gets and that is not your purpose. your whole purpose in life is vanity which is why you all reek of arrogance, self indulgence.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: RaymondKHessel on December 02, 2011, 03:34:08 PM
and Raymond I love you brother.

I heard your kinfolk can cure that homo right out of you. You should look into that. I know your people hate teh fags.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 03:37:59 PM
that a goodone ray please get all that hate out(the fruit of your beliefs coming out of you). it will be therapeutic.


no gays and lesbians will be in heaven if they believe the truth, but they will change eventually if they seek the truth and truly believe.(just a natural occurence) God does not judge you by what you do . that is the true gospel.


did you know that Jesus became homosexual, and became a thief, and a murderer, child molester and anything else you can think of that is sinful as a punishment from God.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: voodoo child on December 02, 2011, 03:45:01 PM
nice one ray, started reading a half hour ago some free time  ;D

rob stick around life's not over yet what have you got to loose.

 You're not the first person to face death. Millions of people face death and die each day.

What makes you so sure that the god of the bible is waiting on the other side?
Could be that there is no god.  just a bunch of wondering souls exploring the unknown.
Could be a giant chicken named Fred. And the only question it will ask is what came first?
If you're from some sand dune tribe and you blow up a train, well hey,  more virgins than you can shake your stick at. Is this starting to sound a little funny now? You know, believe what you want and all? 

When my father died I am quite sure he thought he was flying with the eagles.
When I die I hope I can join him.     But I seriously doubt it. Why?
Because that's rational thought. Sitting around thinking about what lies in the unknown.. Waste of time, you or I do not have. You have this life and that's it, enjoy it. 

 Faith? faith is wishful thought that's never fulfilled.
   
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 02, 2011, 03:45:40 PM
and Raymond I love you brother. look why dont yall just kick me off because the longer i debate with you the stronger my faith gets and that is not your purpose. your whole purpose in life is vanity which is why you all reek of arrogance, self indulgence.

Nice claim of being psychic, Rob.   Unfortunately, making baseless claims seems to be all you have, telling lies about others so you feel better about yourself.  I know it grieves you to find this out but no, the purpose of my life is not vanity.  It's rather sad that it's come down to this.  So much for your offer to debate bible verses, eh? I'm quite happy to do that will you but it seems you are intent running away with your begging to be banned.

No, Rob, you can stay here and be a lovely example to others on what being a Christian evidently really means.   
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: RaymondKHessel on December 02, 2011, 03:46:33 PM
that a goodone ray please get all that hate out(the fruit of your beliefs coming out of you). it will be therapeutic.


no gays and lesbians will be in heaven if they believe the truth, but they will change eventually if they seek the truth and truly believe.(just a natural occurence) God does not judge you by what you do . that is the true gospel.

I'm sorry you're misreading the words that are typed from my handsome fingers as hate. I think perhaps you are overly defensive. No, my words are more mocking, and impatient at worst.

And please don't lie for Jesus. It's unbecoming. Your holy book clearly wants homosexuals put to death. Is your book wrong now? YOU know better than your god? Kinda vain of you, ain't it?

edit: Sorry, I forgot the level of intellectual I'm dealing with here. I'll make sure to use emoticons in the future so you know I'm not all hate-ified.  ;D  :P
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 03:48:05 PM
that is the old covenant not the new.

thanks valkyn thats what i want most.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: RaymondKHessel on December 02, 2011, 03:49:36 PM
that is the old covenant not the new.

Is it not the irrefutable word of god? And if it doesn't count, why include it? You still follow the Ten Commandments, right? Why?

You're a cherry picker. Not a very good one. lol... You suck dude.  ;D

Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 02, 2011, 03:50:01 PM
that is the old covenant not the new.
JC said that one had to follow his father's laws to get to heaven, in addition to following him.  Now that's wrong too????
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 03:52:43 PM
no we are no longer bound by the 10 commandments according to the new covenant. the law was  from God, that came to bring sin alive. thats the purpose of the law so that sin may increase so you will recognise what you have recieved through Christ.

read romans 6:1 and 6:15

 1 So do you think we should continue sinning so that God will give us more and more grace? 2 Of course not! Our old sinful life ended. It’s dead. So how can we continue living in sin? 3 Did you forget that all of us became part of Christ Jesus when we were baptized? In our baptism we shared in his death. 4 So when we were baptized, we were buried with Christ and took part in his death. And just as Christ was raised from death by the wonderful power of the Father, so we can now live a new life.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: RaymondKHessel on December 02, 2011, 03:55:46 PM
no we are no longer bound by the 10 commandments according to the new covenant. the law was  from God, that came to bring sin alive. thats the purpose of the law so that sin may increase so you will recognise what you have recieved through Christ.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA

<sniff> Oh man. Oh... Haha... Wow. What a crock of shit.

You should really listen to yourself sometime. LOL... Ahhhhhhhh. Thanks for laughs, Chuckles.  ;D

read romans 6:1 and 6:15

Pffft. Lol... No, that's okay, thanks. I think I'll pass.  ;)
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: voodoo child on December 02, 2011, 03:56:25 PM
and here comes the preaching uggg      waste smells bad
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 03:58:52 PM
accept or not im just preaching the truth of the WORD.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: RaymondKHessel on December 02, 2011, 04:00:23 PM
accept or not im just preaching the truth of the WORD.

And let me tell you, it's fucking RIVETING Sparky. That 14th century English, WHOO, boy. Lemme tell ya. It *REALLY* connects with people, ya know?  ;D

Maybe you'd like to throw in an Aesop's fable with it? Or a story about Darth Vader and his magic Dwarves? That'd be swell.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 04:01:51 PM
HUH dont understand your statement. i can show youeverything you ever thought about Christianity is wrong if you like. Just ask? and ill show you scripturally.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 02, 2011, 04:02:25 PM
no we are no longer bound by the 10 commandments according to the new covenant. the law was  from God, that came to bring sin alive. thats the purpose of the law so that sin may increase so you will recognise what you have recieved through Christ.

read romans 6:1 and 6:15

 1 So do you think we should continue sinning so that God will give us more and more grace? 2 Of course not! Our old sinful life ended. It’s dead. So how can we continue living in sin? 3 Did you forget that all of us became part of Christ Jesus when we were baptized? In our baptism we shared in his death. 4 So when we were baptized, we were buried with Christ and took part in his death. And just as Christ was raised from death by the wonderful power of the Father, so we can now live a new life.

Let's look at 6:15 
Quote
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!
It seems that sinning is still defined by the law.  So, by not following the law and that's all of the commandmetns, not just the first ten, you are still sinning and have not at all shown any obediance to this god of yours, only depending on grace, like Paul says not to do.

You aren't preaching any truth, and you don't even know your own bible. So much for "truth". No, you are preaching what Rob says his god "really" meant.  You have created your own version of Christianity just like every other Christian, ignoring what is inconvenient.  Your religion is no more than your own desires and hatreds, dressed up with a little imaginary divine approval.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: RaymondKHessel on December 02, 2011, 04:03:37 PM
HUH dont understand your statement.

lol Then you're more dense than I thought.

Understand or not it's the truth of the SENTENCE. GO TELL IT ON THA MOUNTAIN!

Pop a heart pill and think about it, Load Runner. But take it slow. Don't want you to blow a gasket or nothin'.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 04:11:13 PM
velkyn  here is what he is saying


In this fallen world everytime sin increases in this earthly realm so does sickness, poverty, etc. Its like the carnal lifes natural reaction, so why would you do that! plus christians would not be very smart to live like that in the eyes of society. We should be good stewards of the faith for the sake of others and ourselves. He is saying Stop its just stupid.

But in the spiritual realm we are free in his sight as long as we believe.

You dont change for Christianity, Christianity just naturally changes you. do you get it?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: RaymondKHessel on December 02, 2011, 04:13:08 PM
Whatever you say, Space Ace. It's been real. I gotta wrap up this here load of crap or I'll never get out of here by 5:00. Keep on, you know, being weird n' s**t. Sorry you think the world is all fallen n' doomed, too. That sucks. No wonder you're a miserable whiner.

Try not to drop dead in the pews or nufin'.

Hessel Outtie.

By the way, where is the Spiritual Realm again? Is that the 5th dimension, or the 6th?  ;D

edited:For a smiley. So homeslice knows I'm not HATING. BLAAARRRRRGH!  >:(
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 04:15:49 PM
God bless you ray
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: RaymondKHessel on December 02, 2011, 04:16:16 PM
lol Uh huh. And may Emperor Palpatine become confused on the way to your house.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 02, 2011, 04:28:16 PM
velkyn  here is what he is saying
In this fallen world everytime sin increases in this earthly realm so does sickness, poverty, etc. Its like the carnal lifes natural reaction, so why would you do that! plus christians would not be very smart to live like that in the eyes of society. We should be good stewards of the faith for the sake of others and ourselves. He is saying Stop its just stupid.
But in the spiritual realm we are free in his sight as long as we believe.

You dont change for Christianity, Christianity just naturally changes you. do you get it?

Ah, so this is the gospel according to Rob.  I like how you totally make up things, Rob, with nothing in the actual verses to back you up.  Where does Paul say that sin is increasing in the world?  Nope, no where, only a personal increase.  And Yep, it would be stupid to act like idiots in society but it’s amusing that he has to spell it out. It says nothing about for the sake of anyone else. Obediance of the Christian is the only thing that is important.  You see, I have a bible too.

It’s also hilarious that we know that your claims aren’t true just by looking around.  There is less illness and poverty now than in any time in history.  Again your ignorance is astounding.  We have totally beaten some diseases and have many others under control.  We have a vastly higher standard of living, even averaging those from third world countries, and golly, most of them are theists of one type or another. So much for religion benefiting anyone. 

We see no differences in actions between non-Christians and Christians.  There are as many Christian jerks as there are Muslims or Jews or atheists.  Of course, you’ll claim tha they aren’t TrueChristianstm but until I see any of you actually doing anything like was promised, you all have the same validity: NONE. 

and woo, the “spiritual realm”.  Any reason I should accept your claim of this magical realm and not accept the same magic realms from other religions?  Why don’t you accept them as well since they have exactly as much evidence for them as you do?  Oh yes, since you were born in this religion and are intentionally ignorant of others, you have no idea on how similar your claims are to theirs. 

And no Christianity doesn’t change anyone.  I was a good person as a Christian and as not.  I don’t need a magic carrot and stick to act like a decent person. It’s a shame that so many Christians think they do need this and that anyone who isn’t a Christian is a ravening asshole.  They simply aren’t and it’s sad that these Christians have to lie to themselves so badly to make believe that they are special snowflakes.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 04:41:48 PM
i mean your personal existence as far as sin increasing.


and i am  concerned about the here and now.

im not trying to convert you by the way.

i would describe christianity as a relationship rather than a religion.

it changed me i robbed, i stole, sexually was immoral, smoked blunts, toted weight, licked shots, and would baby make, get bent and pay rent.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 04:50:51 PM
there is no such thing as a good christian just forgiven



in response to Obediance of the Christian is the only thing that is important.  You see, I have a bible too.

i call you a bluff about reading and understanding the Bible though because that is exactly the opposite of its teaching

Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on December 02, 2011, 04:57:59 PM
no one has proof of truth, it is corrupt to say that. just like our justice system is flawed your argument is flawed. i am glad to know that you do not claim an absolute truth that clears alot up for me and you beliefs.
It's much more likely that you made faulty assumptions based on misunderstanding what I said.  If you want me to clear up what I think, then ask me directly about it.  Don't try to draw conclusions based on what I say, because you do not have a good track record of drawing correct conclusions in this thread.

Quote from: rob
explain this to someone wrongly convicted of a crime they did not commit, there is a chance of error.
innocent people serve life sentences because of reasonable doubt all the time. with that being said all people/ general public are either innocent or guilty so that makes all people a person of interest. there is no way to escape this conclusion. the general public is either guilty or not. (state of limbo or in my argument FAITH)
People are sometimes wrongfully convicted of crimes, yes.  But that has nothing to do with what I said.  It is a non sequitur, it does not follow from my statements.  Furthermore, your statement about all people (the general public) being innocent or guilty is meaningless to this discussion, because scientific theories have nothing to do with individuals committing crimes. 

Quote from: rob
so i guess your belief in evolution is definitely flawed beyond a reasonable doubt because there is legitimate proof that people are wrongly convicted on the basis of reasonable doubt. so in a court of law your argument would lose because i have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that your argument is not betyond a reasonable doubt. i dont claim i can proove Christianity to you, but to me it just makes more since because we have been created as faithbeings( that is who we are to our innermost core being) and that is a matter of faith. i know where you come from with your beliefs and how you conclude your philosophy.
This is comparing apples and beach balls.  The legal system has absolutely nothing to do with scientific theories, and the fact that you would even try to make that comparison demonstrates that you really don't understand what science is all about.  Also, if you actually tried to prove in a court of law that scientific theories were not proven beyond reasonable doubt by arguing that people are wrongfully imprisoned, you would be laughed out of court.  Also, it's pretty obvious that you don't know where I come from, how I think, or what conclusions I come to, so you should not make statements that are pretty clearly wrong.

Quote from: rob
by the way we are also just as much an emotional/ love/ fear being as we are a faith being.
The fact that we have emotions does not have anything to do with faith.  It has been aptly demonstrated that animals have emotions.  Do they have faith as well?  Good luck finding out.

Quote from: rob
how does athiesm decide what is moral or what is love/ hate/ fear where did that moral authority originate from? and how and why? and do you conclude that since evolution is not absolute that the only absolute is that we are a being of faith and love?
Atheism doesn't decide the first thing about that.  Society decides what is moral, I decide what is ethical.  Love, hate, fear, etc, are all emotions that developed through evolution.  Moral authority comes from society; a person who abides by what is considered moral in a society is a moral authority.

And I do not accept your conclusion that the only absolute is that we are beings of faith and love.  I categorically dispute your conclusion as untrue, nonsensical, and imaginary.  While faith and love exist, they are not absolutes.  Not everyone has faith, and not everyone has love.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 04:59:50 PM
good breakdown jaime still dont agree though

how about disprooving my view of the true gospel
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 05:02:46 PM
vekyl  i call you a bluff about reading and understanding the Bible though because that is exactly the opposite of its teaching.
prove me wrong in scripture.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Emily on December 02, 2011, 05:07:00 PM
i choose Christianity because it makes the most sense in dealing with who I really am as a being. It fills that void of Love that we all cry for in our innermost being.

So you use it as a crutch. I hate it when people say stuff like this. "I choose christianity because it gives me meaning". Sorry, rob, you're a weak minded individual. Not only do you not know what evolution is, and what a scientific theory is, you also cling to this crazy idea that some god fills you with joy and love. Absolutely pathetic.

First of all: don't belittle yourself. We don't need a god being to fill any void in our lives.
Second: You cling to this crutch that says that you are unworthy of his love unless you constantly repent to him and constantly give him praise and thanks by constantly sitting in his house. What kind of loving being would do that? Answer? None.

If this god was truly loving he'd forgive you without your even asking. If this god was so great he wouldn't want constant praise for his creation. He'd be humble. He'd humble himself before you, but he doesn't. He wants thanks because he's god an ego as large as the universe christians claim he created. Not much of a god.

This love you say he fills is not there. He's not moving in your life at all. It's all talk being spoken to you by a man he claims to have been moved to proclaim his divine message. But the message of love isn't there. If anything it's a hostage situation and you are just suffering from Stocholm Syndrome.

it changed me i robbed, i stole, sexually was immoral, smoked blunts, toted weight, licked shots, and would baby make, get bent and pay rent.

Bummer. I can relate though. I was homeless for a few years because I was a crack head.

No one change you. You changed yourself and you are using god as a reason why you no longer do these things. Show yourself some respect. Stop giving the credit to god.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on December 02, 2011, 05:12:38 PM
good breakdown jaime still dont agree though
Maybe you should actually take the time to read what I'm saying, then.  I mean, you posted less than two minutes after I did.

Quote from: rob
how about disprooving my view of the true gospel
Maybe you should try proving your view of the "true gospel" first.  And while you're at it, you can actually open your mind to the probability that you don't actually understand the "real true gospel".
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 05:13:22 PM
ok emily thats nice

back to vekyl why do you care about rejecting the grace of god/ the true gospel anyway? why do you sternly disagree with it?

i was referring to vekyl, jaime
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on December 02, 2011, 05:15:57 PM
It's "velkyn".  Also, you did not make that clear.  Mine is the only name you mentioned.  I am not a mind reader, to be able to tell who you're talking to if you don't write it in your post.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Emily on December 02, 2011, 05:41:19 PM
ok emily thats nice

Cool. What's not nice is people who take away their self worth but worshiping a god who thinks they are unworthy of spending eternity with him simply because they don't suck him off, pay him complements and give him money. You even show in your message that you have little-to-no self-respect.

You need to stick up for yourself.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Historicity on December 02, 2011, 06:23:23 PM
the only way to get away from that is to denounce christ the only unforgivable sin. read ephesians 2:8
... i dont think you want to get in a biblical debate with me.
Quote
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:  it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

No reference to unforgiveable sin there. 

Check your references before smarting off.



Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 07:11:36 PM
(http://C:\Users\Batts\Desktop)i was just trying to show his grace is not by anything you could ever do besides believe in him .

here it is:

Matthew 12:31



 31-32"There's nothing done or said that can't be forgiven. But if you deliberately persist in your slanders against God's Spirit, you are repudiating the very One who forgives. If you reject the Son of Man out of some misunderstanding, the Holy Spirit can forgive you, but when you reject the Holy Spirit, you're sawing off the branch on which you're sitting, severing by your own perversity all connection with the One who forgives.

Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Tinyal on December 02, 2011, 09:07:03 PM
(http://C:\Users\Batts\Desktop)i was just trying to show his grace is not by anything you could ever do besides believe in him .

here it is:

Matthew 12:31



 31-32"There's nothing done or said that can't be forgiven. But if you deliberately persist in your slanders against God's Spirit, you are repudiating the very One who forgives. If you reject the Son of Man out of some misunderstanding, the Holy Spirit can forgive you, but when you reject the Holy Spirit, you're sawing off the branch on which you're sitting, severing by your own perversity all connection with the One who forgives.

Oh goodie!! Another chance to curse out the Holy Spirit!!  I love these...ok how is this?


"FK you holy spook!! Go eat some navel lint then set yourself on fire!!!  Mix yourself with some methane then take up crack smoking with a blowtorch!!"

That work for ya?

:)
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 09:33:02 PM
no that wouldnt work, you have to deny his existence after he has fully revelated himself to you. this would be the only thing outside of the total rejection of salvation
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 09:41:23 PM
sort of like how you believe you know without a doubt that evolution is the truth and then you turned your back on it anyway to become a christian muslim whatever.

that would be like the unforgivable sin of evolution.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Gnu Ordure on December 02, 2011, 10:03:08 PM
Quote
you have to deny his existence after he has fully revelated himself to you.

Revelated. I like that. Probably the truest word Rob has spoken so far.

Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 10:10:17 PM
here is what hebrews 4 thru 6 says

 4-6Once people have seen the light, gotten a taste of heaven and been part of the work of the Holy Spirit, once they've personally experienced the sheer goodness of God's Word and the powers breaking in on us—if then they turn their backs on it, washing their hands of the whole thing, well, they can't start over as if nothing happened. That's impossible. Why, they've re-crucified Jesus!

here it is again
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: curiousgirl on December 02, 2011, 10:14:38 PM
i mean your personal existence as far as sin increasing.


and i am  concerned about the here and now.

im not trying to convert you by the way.

i would describe christianity as a relationship rather than a religion.

it changed me i robbed, i stole, sexually was immoral, smoked blunts, toted weight, licked shots, and would baby make, get bent and pay rent.

Hi, Rob. I have to point out that you are using multiple cliches with the above statements. Do you realize that you sound brainwashed? You sound like someone who cannot control his own behavior like an adult, so he turns to a placebo to get results.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 10:23:34 PM
i am most definitely brainwashed by the word of God. that is exactly how i would describe it.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Mr. Blackwell on December 02, 2011, 10:24:31 PM
toted weight, licked shots, and would baby make, get bent and pay rent.

I don't know what any of this means.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 10:28:28 PM
pushed  drugs, involved in gunplay where i actually was shot in thr pelvis, had kids out of wedlock, get drunk and doped up, and just pay my rent to wherever i was staying at the time i never had a socalled home..
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: curiousgirl on December 02, 2011, 10:36:55 PM
i am most definitely brainwashed by the word of God. that is exactly how i would describe it.

OK, and I am sure you are proud of it, too. Rob, I used to go around saying the same type of thing. I used to say, "I am a Jesus freak, and proud of it." Then I grew up and realized that in order to maintain a belief in Jesus, you have to suspend rational thought from your daily routine. How does it make sense that the world population is the ultimate result of only two people mating? There is not enough of a gene pool with two people. How about the Flood? Do you realize that there is not enough water for that to occur on our planet? How about the Exodus? Is it logical that a loving God would kill the firstborn (even children) of every Egyptian because of one hard-hearted Pharoah? And don't forget Jesus' supposed resurrection.

It takes courage and good sense to ask those questions. I recommend you try it sometime.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 10:47:46 PM
ive already had the discussion that you dont have any absolute truth to back up anything you just said besides that God allowed all the firstborn to be killed that will never happen again because their has been a payment for all sin past present and future.

luke 2:14 says
At once the angel was joined by a huge angelic choir singing God's praises:

   "Glory to God in the heavenly heights,
   Peace to all men and women on earth who please him."

so this meant peace to all mankind, he does not hold sin against us anymore so he would never do that again, it would not be just of him to do so.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Historicity on December 02, 2011, 10:49:00 PM
One Toke Over The Line
Brewer & Shipley

One toke over the line, Sweet Jesus
One toke over the line.
Sitting downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line.

Waiting for the train that takes me home, Sweet Mary
Hoping that the train is on time.
Sitting downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line.

Whoooo do you love? I hope it's me.
I've been a changing, as you can plainly see.
I felt the joy and I learned about the pain that my momma said.
If I should choose to make a part of me, surely strike me dead.

Now I'm one toke over the line, Sweet Jesus
One toke over the line
Sitting downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line

I'm waiting for the train that goes home, Sweet Mary
Hoping that the train is on time.
Sitting downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line.

I been away a country mile.
Now I'm returning, showing off a smile.
I met all the girls and loved myself a few.
Ended by surprise like everything else I've been through.
It opened up my eyes and now I'm..

One toke over the line, Sweet Jesus
One toke over the line.
Sitting downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: curiousgirl on December 02, 2011, 10:53:02 PM
ive already had the discussion that you dont have any absolute truth to back up anything you just said besides that God allowed all the firstborn to be killed that will never happen again because their has been a payment for all sin past present and future.

luke 2:14 says
At once the angel was joined by a huge angelic choir singing God's praises:

   "Glory to God in the heavenly heights,
   Peace to all men and women on earth who please him."

so this meant peace to all mankind he does not hold sin against us anymore so he would never do that again, it would not be just of him to do so.

Rob, humans are subjective creatures. Science and logic are the best tools that we have for understanding objective reality.

Why did God have to kill those children in the first place? Do you see how you are trying to justify illogical behavior? If God is truly omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, etc then he could have used his power to prevent sin to begin with. Yet instead, he supposedly kills innocent children, such as the firstborn child of David and Bathsheba.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 10:59:40 PM
we walked away from god not the other way around he is just

romans 9:20 says

 19 So one of you will ask me, “If God controls what we do, why does he blame us for our sins?” 20 Don’t ask that. You are only human and have no right to question God. A clay jar does not question the one who made it. It does not say, “Why did you make me like this?” 21 The one who makes the jar can make anything he wants. He uses the same clay to make different things. He might make one thing for special purposes and another for daily use.

God can not go against his own word so in that respect he is not omnipotent. he would be unjust if he did that
psalm 138:2
  I will worship toward Your holy temple and praise Your name for Your loving-kindness and for Your truth and faithfulness; for You have exalted above all else Your name and Your word and You have magnified Your word above all Your name!

david and bathsheba were still under the curse so he was just in doing so
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Mr. Blackwell on December 02, 2011, 11:11:26 PM
we walked away from god not the other way around he is just

Just what? He is just amazing? He just cruel? He just what?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 11:12:59 PM
justifiable or justified
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 02, 2011, 11:19:41 PM
hey im hitting the sack if you wanna talk tomorrow we can good night
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: JeffPT on December 02, 2011, 11:51:15 PM
we walked away from god not the other way around he is just

Yes, we know what the special book claims.  But its just words on paper; and those words require analysis in a similar way that you would analyze any other claim in any other book you ever came across, does it not?  Can you present any real world evidence that God is real and that he is a just God?  And what would the evidence (if you found it) look like that would convince you that God might not be a just God? 

romans 9:20 says

 19 So one of you will ask me, “If God controls what we do, why does he blame us for our sins?” 20 Don’t ask that. You are only human and have no right to question God. A clay jar does not question the one who made it. It does not say, “Why did you make me like this?” 21 The one who makes the jar can make anything he wants. He uses the same clay to make different things. He might make one thing for special purposes and another for daily use.

This has always bothered me.  God supposedly gave me the ability to question things, and then tells me not to question things when it comes to the most important subjects?  The reason a clay jar doesn't question the one who makes it is because a clay jar is not a sentient being with feelings, wants, desires and a basic right to life.  We don't feel sorry for the clay jar for the same reason we don't feel sorry for rocks.  They aren't alive.  But if you made a clay jar that suddenly became sentient, it would have every right to ask why it was made in such a way, and not answering it would just make you look like an ass hole. 

I'm just glad none of the god stuff is real.  I'd hate to think the most powerful being, inside or outside of the universe, is just a dick. 

God can not go against his own word so in that respect he is not omnipotent. he would be unjust if he did that

You can't call God omnipotent in some ways but not others.  That would not make any sense.  It would be like saying you scored 100% on a test but got 3 of the answers wrong.  You can't get 3 wrong and score 100%.  It's illogical.  It's a square circle.  A married bachelor.  The very definition of the omnipotence means He can do anything... literally anything.   The first time you say "He can do anything, 'except'..." then God falls out of the realm of omnipotence.  He might be powerful, but not omnipotent.

BTW, a note to all Christians... The claim of a non-omnipotent god would be easier to defend in just about every single way than one that is considered omnipotent.  You should all abandon the notion that God is capable of doing anything.  It's a major loss for your side. 
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Astreja on December 03, 2011, 01:58:22 AM
everybody please listen. believe what you want. that shall be the ultimate truth for you. i dont condemn you. but know that you are a being of faith and love. thats the ultimate truth for us all.
can we agree on that?

No, we most certainly cannot agree on that.  For one thing, not all people are loving and not all people have faith.  Secondly, different individuals can have very different ideas of what "faith" and "love" actually mean.

The word 'faith' in particular has several meanings that range from 'blind belief in things for which there is absolutely no empirical evidence' to 'confidence that something which has happened repeatedly before will happen again.'  If you claim that the two are the same, you have committed the logical fallacy of equivocation -- Comparing apples to oranges.  No; more like comparing apples to transistors or jackhammers.  Using the same word for two radically different things does not make them into the same thing.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: caveat_imperator on December 03, 2011, 02:20:51 AM
Does rob suffer from fundie Tourette's?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Emily on December 03, 2011, 02:51:08 AM
sort of like how you believe you know without a doubt that evolution is the truth and then you turned your back on it anyway to become a christian muslim whatever.

that would be like the unforgivable sin of evolution.

Lay off the evolution talk, ok. Every time you mention it you make yourself sound like a complete idiot, so do yourself a favor and just stop.

pushed  drugs, involved in gunplay where i actually was shot in thr pelvis, had kids out of wedlock, get drunk and doped up, and just pay my rent to wherever i was staying at the time i never had a socalled home..

boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river. Oh, I am so glad god came into rob's live to save him from being in gangs. Thank you jebus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i am most definitely brainwashed by the word of God. that is exactly how i would describe it.

Not something worth bragging about. You're brainwashed. You don't know how to think for yourself. Grow up.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: One Above All on December 03, 2011, 03:04:01 AM
boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river. Oh, I am so glad god came into rob's live to save him from being in gangs. Thank you jebus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too bad jebus didn't come for the ~99% of theists in USA prisons... Well, sucks for them, right? It's all about rob! Screw the other ~7 billion humans on this planet!
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Historicity on December 03, 2011, 06:44:34 AM
Does rob suffer from fundie Tourette's?

The impression Rob gives to me is that he sounds brain damaged (the drugs) or it could be a persistent habit of speaking in argot combined with his commitment to irrationalism.

A couple people here have admitted they were in the drug scene but they left it and don't talk like it anymore.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Ambassador Pony on December 03, 2011, 07:05:53 AM
i am most definitely brainwashed by the word of God. that is exactly how i would describe it.

Paydirt! This one is mine!
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: curiousgirl on December 03, 2011, 11:16:52 AM
Rob, my guess is that you would say that anything God does is just. After all, you think he is justified in murdering children whenever he has a temper tantrum, because they are under a "curse" that they could not help to begin with. You are blindly following an imaginary tyrant because it feels good to you; because it is convenient. In short, you are an ignoramus.

You don't even seem to understand the concept of omnipotence, based on your previous statements. You did not answer my concerns regarding Adam and Eve, the Flood, the Exodus and the Resurrection (just to name a few) being improbable and illogical.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Graybeard on December 03, 2011, 11:57:44 AM
no we are no longer bound by the 10 commandments according to the new covenant.
Rob, let me put you straight spiritually

Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Which is summed up in:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

and of the Commandments:

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. Joh:13:34
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. Joh:13:35:

You see Jesus gave us another one, He did not abolish the other 10 (or 613 if you are really serious) Commandments

To most Christians, the Bible is like a software license. Nobody actually reads it. They just scroll to the bottom and click “I agree.” Rob, you have just clicked the button and nothing else.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Emily on December 03, 2011, 12:10:02 PM
A couple people here have admitted they were in the drug scene but they left it and don't talk like it anymore.

I am completely proud that rob is no longer in that scene. That scene is no way to live life. It's embarrassing, unhealthy and unsafe. But one thing I am not proud of is that people who leave that scene turn to god and then think god is the one who saved them. I deeply believe that the only reason a druggy leaves that scene is because of their own choice to leave that scene. Sure, there can be court orders to at least get someone away from it but that person can disobey those orders and use again, and face the consequences. Or, if in rehab they can just walk out the door and go back to the streets. The main reason that person quit using drugs, I believe, is through their own conscious efforts made by themselves and no one else. Person can persuade a druggy away from the drug but in the end it's that persons choice not to go back to it.

Not gods choice. People who use god are only finding a feel good story that they never had while on the drug. It's just getting brainwashed into believing there is a savior who saved them, when first there are thousands of stories of former druggies who made their lifestyle change themselves without the need of divine intervention, and second all they are doing is going from one dependency to another.

I've been to counseling for drugs and one thing I was told is once in recovery, always in recovery. And it's true. Rob, you can walk away from church and god today and I guarantee you you wont go back to your old lifestyle unless you make that wrong choice to go back. No one is stopping you but yourself. You can make the choice to stay away from that scene. Thousands of people are clean and sober after years of abuse without the help of god. Thousands of people saw the life they were living and walked away from it and never once entered a church as a means to escape in a hope to never return to that lifestyle. In my mind turning to god is just as unhealthy as the drug itself, and in fact you're just giving up one drug for another (god). It's time for you to cleanse yourself completely.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on December 03, 2011, 04:55:54 PM
sort of like how you believe you know without a doubt that evolution is the truth and then you turned your back on it anyway to become a christian muslim whatever.

that would be like the unforgivable sin of evolution.
Evolution is nothing more than the description of a nonsentient, nonaware, biological process.  It is not a belief system.  It has no catechisms, no sins.  It is unconcerned with whether people believe it is true or not.  A person saying evolution is true, or a person saying evolution is false, doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to whether it is true or not.  And it isn't something you choose in lieu of a belief system, like Christianity, Islam, Judaism...take your pick.  There are many religious people who accept evolutionary theory as being true simply because it explains the incredible diversity of our ecosystem so well.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 03, 2011, 08:17:06 PM
I love all you guys believe it or not. ;D
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: curiousgirl on December 03, 2011, 09:00:11 PM
Rob, I know you mean well, but you are clearly failing to acknowledge the issues with your beliefs that I (and others) pointed out. Professing your love for us does not solve the problems I mentioned earlier.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 03, 2011, 09:21:45 PM
in response to greybeard-

1.the word law here was an expression regularly used back then to say basically the old testament(research it, thought you were the illuminati you definitely should have knew that) this is how Jesus fulfilled the "law and the prophets."

"There are over 400 prophecies in the Old Testament which point to the coming Messiah and to His life and death. Jesus Christ perfectly fulfilled every single one of them. The odds of someone doing that who was not the Messiah are too great to even figure."

John 13:34 was a command given for our benefit.

Ephisians 2:8 sums all of it up for you.


here is what hebrews 10 1-10 says about the law

1-10The old plan was only a hint of the good things in the new plan. Since that old "law plan" wasn't complete in itself, it couldn't complete those who followed it. No matter how many sacrifices were offered year after year, they never added up to a complete solution. If they had, the worshipers would have gone merrily on their way, no longer dragged down by their sins. But instead of removing awareness of sin, when those animal sacrifices were repeated over and over they actually heightened awareness and guilt. The plain fact is that bull and goat blood can't get rid of sin.

 I Thank God for Jesus !!! Christians are actually sealed in him, and can not get away from him according to ephesians 1:13 you were SEALED. and the only unforgivable sin is as we said earlier is  blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (hebrews 6:4-6). the old testament/ covenant was just types and shadows=(to get everyone ready for christ) for the new testament/ covenant.

the law came to bring sin alive, to show us that we needed a savior. that is its purpose and Gods plan for the law/10 commandments. the 10 commandments do have a positive effect in your walk on this earth though, because they are good guidance for what is morally good. this is how John 13:34 should be interpreted also because it is for our good while we are in this carnal realm.

Galatians 3:25
King James Version (KJV)
25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster=(law)

here is what romans 7:7 says about the law.
 7But I can hear you say, "If the law code/ 10 commandments was as bad as all that, it's no better than sin itself." That's certainly not true. The law code had a perfectly legitimate function. Without its clear guidelines for right and wrong, moral behavior would be mostly guesswork. Apart from the succinct, surgical command, "You shall not covet," I could have dressed covetousness up to look like a virtue and ruined my life with it.

i could go on and on about this with more and more scriptures. Greybeard you better come stronger than that. you might learn something in a little while!!!

Just for everybodys knowledge God does no harm to anyone whatsoever anymore because Jesus paid the price for sin.

Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 03, 2011, 09:33:07 PM
IT SEEMS AS THOUGH NONE OF YOU UNDERSTAND THE TRUE INTENT OR UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE/TRUE GOSPEL, WILL SOMEONE PLEASE PROOVE ME WRONG GRAYBEARD you may be the illumanati for evolution, but definitely not the Bible if you cant understand the simple fact of Gods grace explained in it. It is so blatantly right there in front of your face  just open your eyes!

here is some more about how the law/10 commandments can not do anything for you, it is ONLY  FAITH that makes you righteous in Gods eyes, FAITH in Jesus is the stumbling stone FOR MOST RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. Humanity operates on being morally good, good works, or deeds but God works by grace. the only thing you can do is Believe.

romans 9:30-33

 30 So what are we going to say? Gentiles who were’t striving for righteousness achieved righteousness, the righteousness that comes from faith. 31 But though Israel was striving for a Law of righteousness, they didn’t arrive. 32 Why? It’s because they didn’t go for it by faith but they went for it as if it could be reached by doing something. They have tripped over a stumbling block. 33 As it is written:

   Look! I’m putting a stumbling block in Zion,
   which is a rock that offends people.
And the one who has faith in him will not be put to shame.

Jesus also says in John 6:29
29 Jesus replied, “This is what God requires, that you believe in him whom God sent.”

hey GRAYBEARD PUT ME STRAIGHT SPIRITUALLY CMON BROTHER ILLUMINATED ONE
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: albeto on December 03, 2011, 10:24:22 PM
^^^

 Lack of faith (and don't forget iron) eh?  These are the things that stop god in his tracks. 

Kryptonite has never been so easy to come by.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 03, 2011, 10:28:43 PM
^^^

 Lack of faith (and don't forget iron) eh?  These are the things that stop god in his tracks. 

Kryptonite has never been so easy to come by.

does lack of faith mean some or no faith? and it depends on when this lack of faith takes place
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: albeto on December 03, 2011, 10:32:19 PM
does lack of faith mean some or no faith?

I don't know.  What's the difference? 

Does god give you as much grace as you have faith?  We know he forgives you in response to how much you forgive others (except for those pesky offenses that he refuses to tolerate ever), so there's some grace/righteousness economy going on here.  How little is enough for the Righteousness Cloak to work?  And If god is going to look the other way and declare someone righteous, does that mean he is easily fooled or he just likes to make rules and break them for fun? 
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 03, 2011, 10:54:04 PM
does lack of faith mean some or no faith?

I don't know.  What's the difference? 

Does god give you as much grace as you have faith?  We know he forgives you in response to how much you forgive others (except for those pesky offenses that he refuses to tolerate ever), so there's some grace/righteousness economy going on here.  How little is enough for the Righteousness Cloak to work?  And If god is going to look the other way and declare someone righteous, does that mean he is easily fooled or he just likes to make rules and break them for fun?
initially if you ask God for salvation and truly mean it you are sealed in Christ. then lets say later on you lost all your faith because of some misunderstanding of God or for whatevr reason, you are still righteous in his eyes. but I will say that you cant fool God, for He judges the heart.

also the rules you are talking about were NOT FOR HIM, but they were for your benefit in this life along with bringing sin alive to show or contrast how hopeless you are without a savior.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 03, 2011, 11:12:18 PM
does lack of faith mean some or no faith?


Does god give you as much grace as you have faith? 
he actually gives you the grace and the faith!!!!!!!!!!
the answer to that question is YES according to the scriptures, actually it is our initial faith that  saves us at the moment of salvation, then its the free gift of  Gods supernatural faith that we recieve. its fulllproof/ foolproof according to the bible. so its not our grace nor our faith after the initial acceptance of Gods salvation.

ephesians 2:8 says it like this
8For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God--

here is another translation
the message bible says it like this
All we do is trust him enough to let him do it. It's God's gift from start to finish! We don't play the major role. If we did, we'd probably go around bragging that we'd done the whole thing! No, we neither make nor save ourselves. God does both the making and saving.

this why the word gospel in greek means   the too good too be true news
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: ParkingPlaces on December 03, 2011, 11:19:37 PM
what are good things that i dont appreciate?. I WANT TO KNOW WHO TOLD SOCIETY WHAT IS GOOD OR NOT? please SOMEBODY. anybody

The individuals figured it out and passed it on. People getting shot tend to say "ouch" and if they survive they freely mention to others how they didn't like getting shot, and when they are good at getting their point across, they are able to spread the word about how much it hurts and they get people to generally agree that getting shot sucks and then people make rules about shooting each other.

That doesn't mean it's actually bad to get shot. Most folks perceive it to be, but hey, maybe if I got shot and ended up in the hospital and got to eat food that was better than my own cooking for a couple of weeks while they tried to decide whether or not to cut off my mangled leg I might start to think getting shot is pretty good because I ate better.

Good and bad is a social construct. That most of us are willing to go along with. At least when it's convenient. Years ago people noticed that when they killed all their own kids they never got to be grandparents and hence no cute little crayon pix to hang on the fridge. And this was bad. So they started thinking that maybe they should eat someone else's kids, and morality was born.

Get used to it. Many, many civilizations and tribal groups survived for tens of thousands of years without any knowledge whatsoever of your god and yet they didn't kill each other off or spend 24 hours a day robbing each other. Don't be so frickin' mystified why folks are nice to each other more often than not. I've been an atheist for about half a century and I've yet to kick someone in the groin or tear the tags off my mattress. So being obedient to generally accepted social constructs must be pretty easy, whether there is a god or not. Otherwise I would have shot you in a back alley decades ago. Unless you're younger. then it would have been last year or something.

And if you need a god to have a reason to live, you're doing it wrong. I get up each day with things to do and places to go. That none of them involve church socials or Sunday morning services doesn't mean that they are meaningless undertakings. Sometimes it's work (ick) and sometimes it's play (yea!) but in any case it beats that crap out of being a bunch of ashes in a cardboard box in someones dresser because they haven't mustered up the courage to go up in the mountains and sprinkle me off of a cliff.

You're fretting to much about life. That's like winning the lottery and spending the next year wondering what you'll do with the money and then going down to the lottery office to turn it in and finding out that you had to do it by yesterday and the ticket had expired. Silly goose.

You're alive. This is good. Someday you'll be dead, even if I don't help. That is sad. To spend all your waking hours both mystified and miffed is a complete waste of time and money and carbon molecules. Find another reason to wake up in the morning. I did that long, long ago and I'm not super-perplexed by anything. I'm not tearing my hair out (what's left of it) over anything anguishing. And i'm not worried enough about death to act scared right now.

Try it, you'll like it.

Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: JeffPT on December 03, 2011, 11:27:00 PM
rob,

I'm happy you stopped being an ass hole, but come on man.  None of this god stuff is real.  You quote the bible as if the things inside it are true.  They're not.  There is no such thing as the Christian God.  All that stuff about faith and grace and saving us is just stupid.  It's completely fake.  Your theological take on things is just that... theology.  Not fact.  When you postulate a being that could literally do anything, then it's not overly hard to come up a theology around it that makes sense to you.  That has nothing to do with whether its true or not.  While you may be sitting there reading this and shaking your head and thinking about how I just don't 'get' it or something... no man... just no.  It's all really fake.  It really is. 

You should also stop quoting the bible to us, because nobody actually thinks the stuff in there is true anymore.  If you want to convince anyone that God is real, you can't use the bible.  You have to use real world evidence of some kind.  Do you have any? 

And please stop underlining and bolding so much stuff.  It adds nothing and is a little annoying.

Have a good one. 

Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 03, 2011, 11:34:32 PM
rob,

I'm happy you stopped being an ass hole, but come on man.  None of this god stuff is real.  You quote the bible as if the things inside it are true.  They're not.  There is no such thing as the Christian God.  All that stuff about faith and grace and saving us is just stupid.  It's completely fake.  Your theological take on things is just that... theology.  Not fact.  When you postulate a being that could literally do anything, then it's not overly hard to come up a theology around it that makes sense to you.  That has nothing to do with whether its true or not.  While you may be sitting there reading this and shaking your head and thinking about how I just don't 'get' it or something... no man... just no.  It's all really fake.  It really is. 

You should also stop quoting the bible to us, because nobody actually thinks the stuff in there is true anymore.  If you want to convince anyone that God is real, you can't use the bible.  You have to use real world evidence of some kind.  Do you have any? 

And please stop underlining and bolding so much stuff.  It adds nothing and is a little annoying.

Have a good one.

i know it is foolishness to nonchristians, it should be according to bible
1 cor.18-21 says The Message that points to Christ on the Cross seems like sheer silliness to those hellbent on destruction, but for those on the way of salvation it makes perfect sense. This is the way God works, and most powerfully as it turns out. It's written,

   I'll turn conventional wisdom on its head,
   I'll expose so-called experts as crackpots.
So where can you find someone truly wise, truly educated, truly intelligent in this day and age? Hasn't God exposed it all as pretentious nonsense? Since the world in all its fancy wisdom never had a clue when it came to knowing God, God in his wisdom took delight in using what the world considered dumb—preaching, of all things!—to bring those who trust him into the way of salvation.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: curiousgirl on December 03, 2011, 11:44:42 PM
Rob, I used to use that verse from 1 Cor. Then I realized that the verse itself is part of a method to try and reinforce a delusional belief. Of course the gospel looks foolish, because it is illogical.

You don't seem to realize that some of the members here are ex-Christians who know the Bible pretty well. In fact, it was knowing the Bible that caused me to question Christianity.

You still have not addressed my concerns regarding the logical and ethical problems with the Biblical events I mentioned earlier.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: ParkingPlaces on December 03, 2011, 11:45:33 PM
Rob

You been sacrificing all your first born animals to your god, as required in Leviticus 27:26, or are you another hypocrite, just cherry-picking on your biblical journey through life?

Just curious.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 03, 2011, 11:48:42 PM
Rob

You been sacrificing all your first born animals to your god, as required in Leviticus 27:26, or are you another hypocrite, just cherry-picking on your biblical journey through life?

Just curious.
did you just not read anything i wrote?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: rob on December 03, 2011, 11:52:28 PM
anyway i think my job here is done, the grace of God has been preached and explained thouroughly. God bless yall and thanks for letting me be a part of your forum and website.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: JeffPT on December 03, 2011, 11:56:10 PM
i know it is foolishness to nonchristians it should according to bible

You're doing it again.  Stop quoting the bible as if it's worth something. 

What do you know about the history of the bible?  Maybe you should look into that. 

1 cor.18-21 says The Message that points to Christ on the Cross seems like sheer silliness to those hellbent on destruction,

Do you really think we're all hellbent on destruction?  I giggled a little bit here.  Couldn't it just be that we've examined the bible for it's content and found that it was much more likely fake than true?  Isn't that possible with any book?  Why do you think the bible is immune to this type of assessment?  It's very silly rob.  Dragons, giants, people living in fish for days... very silly stuff.  I'm sorry, but that buzzer that goes off in my brain every time I read books with talking animals in it, went off when I read the bible.  It's just... come on man.  No... just no. 

So where can you find someone truly wise, truly educated, truly intelligent in this day and age?

Those people are all over the place.  They're called scientists, teachers, doctors, etc.  We should lean on them more than we currently do. 

Hasn't God exposed it all as pretentious nonsense?

Exposed what?  Science?  LOL.  Look around you, rob.  Is there anything in your immediate vicinity that has NOT been touched by science?  Those creature comforts that we all enjoy aren't just pretentious nonsense... they help make our lives better.  We should celebrate them, not call them pretentious like you.  There is nothing wrong with enjoying life.  Nothing.  Its the only one we get. 

Since the world in all its fancy wisdom never had a clue when it came to knowing God, God in his wisdom took delight in using what the world considered dumb—preaching, of all things!—to bring those who trust him into the way of salvation.

That's a really pretty way of saying absolutely nothing worth reading. 

Preachers are the worst types of people.  They stand in front of throngs of people in their funny outfits and spew unquestioned information as if it were true to mindless sheep who absorb it without putting any thought into it at all.  And you'll notice that I didn't mention them when I was showing you that there are truly wise, intelligent and educated people all around us.  Newsflash for you rob... people still think preaching is dumb. 

Seriously, get your head out of the bible and start learning stuff.  You've been brainwashed, but you can undo it.  Take pride in knowing that you pulled yourself out of trouble all by yourself and learn about the real world around you.  It's a lot more fascinating than that god crap. 

anyway i think my job here is done, the grace of God has been preached and explained thouroughly. God bless yall and thanks for letting me be a part of your forum and website.

Whatever man.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: curiousgirl on December 04, 2011, 12:00:06 AM
anyway i think my job here is done, the grace of God has been preached and explained thouroughly. God bless yall and thanks for letting me be a part of your forum and website.

Run, Forrest, run!

Guess I am not going to get an argument for those Biblical events I mentioned earlier.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: dloubet on December 04, 2011, 12:04:15 AM
Quote
anyway i think my job here is done, the grace of God has been preached and explained thouroughly.

But you didn't convince anyone. You failed. Do you think the god will be satisfied that you failed and gave up? Will it look upon you favorably that you quit when things got inconvenient? Are we to understand by your example that Christians are quitters?

Is failure the measure of your faith?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Astreja on December 04, 2011, 03:33:34 AM
...if you cant understand the simple fact of Gods grace....

Rob, this "God's grace" thing is not an actual fact until you prove empirically that your god is real, and that its behaviour is in accordance with whatever you mean by "grace."

And in My opinion, a god that needs to use "grace" at all is incompetent.

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the only thing you can do is Believe.

Belief does not appear to be a choice.  At best, a non-believer can go through the motions of believing, hoping that genuine belief will somehow develop later.

However, when dealing with patently nonsensical mythologies such as Christianity, sometimes belief never comes.  This has been My experience.  I was exposed to Christianity at a young age, not by indoctrination but because I loved to read.  By the time I was seven years old, I knew all the major Bible stories:  Adam & Eve, Noah, Abraham and Isaac, Sampson, David and Goliath, the walls of Jericho, Daniel in the lion's den, the Gospels.

They were never real to Me.  Not for one moment.  Despite being the proverbial blank slate, awaiting only the interest and intervention of a god, nothing happened.

By the time I was in any real danger of someone trying to convert Me to Christianity, I had already seen through the Hell myth and visualized the nature of eternal life and its inherent meaninglessness.  Oh, and I just couldn't find it in Myself to have a heck of a lot of sympathy for this Jesus character, either.

Now, 47 years after your alleged god dropped the ball, I view Christianity as abhorrent and completely unacceptable.  It is grossly immoral and psychologically unhealthy.  I will not worship a god that would torture anyone in hell; I will not consent to allowing anyone to die in My place; and I have no interest in living forever.

ParkingPlaces nailed it:  "...If you need a god to have a reason to live, you're doing it wrong."  If you tie your entire life to a myth, it'll be the myth living your life... Not you.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Historicity on December 04, 2011, 08:09:32 AM
this why the word gospel in greek means   the too good too be true news

Stop lying.

The word for gospel in Latin is EVANGELIUM.  That is from Greel EUAGGELION.  (GG in Greek is pronounced as NG.)  EU is a prefix well known to any English speaker and means "good". 

ANGELUS in Latn is from Greek AGGELOS.  It literally mean "messenger".

AGGELION means "message" or "news".
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Chronos on December 04, 2011, 08:45:35 AM
IT SEEMS AS THOUGH NONE OF YOU UNDERSTAND THE TRUE INTENT OR UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE/TRUE GOSPEL, WILL SOMEONE PLEASE PROOVE ME WRONG

This implies that you understand the True IntentTM of the bible. Given your heavy implication, who says that you understand the true intent of the bible?



Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: caveat_imperator on December 04, 2011, 11:12:38 AM
Run, Forrest, run!
Brave Sir robin ran away.
Bravely ran away, away!
When danger reared its ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Sir robin turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
Bravely taking to his feet
He beat a very brave retreat,
Bravest of the brave, Sir robin!
 ;D
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Brakeman on December 04, 2011, 11:39:06 AM
anyway i think my job here is done, the grace of God has been preached and explained thouroughly.

You must have been reading the greatly abridged version of the great commission, You haven't even defined what your god's grace is or means. You haven't told us what god has told to you, you've simply pushed snippets of what other men have said.

Yet you claim job done, mission accomplished?

Who are you? George Bush?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: hickdive on December 04, 2011, 03:39:27 PM
anyway i think my job here is done, the grace of God has been preached and explained thouroughly. God bless yall and thanks for letting me be a part of your forum and website.

Yup...

(http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/11/27/128722641613667940.jpg)
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: Traveler on December 04, 2011, 04:01:20 PM
LOL!

He came, he preached, he left. So what else is new?
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: jaimehlers on December 04, 2011, 05:06:07 PM
anyway i think my job here is done, the grace of God has been preached and explained thouroughly. God bless yall and thanks for letting me be a part of your forum and website.
With all due respect, you didn't preach particularly well and your explanations were lacking.  Furthermore, your efforts resulted only in the people here being more convinced that Christians are wrong.  If your preaching results in the opposite effect, who's fault is it?

If you want to convince people that you know what you're talking about, you have to prove it, not just quote random Bible verses at them and expect them to gratefully thank you for it.  That's what most Christians (indeed, most religious people) simply don't get anymore, if they ever did.
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: velkyn on December 05, 2011, 09:41:18 AM
anyway i think my job here is done, the grace of God has been preached and explained thouroughly. God bless yall and thanks for letting me be a part of your forum and website.

sweet! One more Christian who has failed and one more bit of evidence that God is either incompetent with his picking these idiots to represent him or simply imaginary. 

and I do wonder what Rob thinks about his god really blessing us.  Since  my life is pretty nice, his god must like me bunches.  But I suspect that all Rob means is that he hopes his god will make us believe that Rob is "right". 
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: RaymondKHessel on December 05, 2011, 12:30:38 PM
This thread was a riot. My face literally hurts, I've been grinning so much.  ;D
Title: Re: thanks [#2625]
Post by: caveat_imperator on December 05, 2011, 09:16:32 PM
(http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/11/27/128722641613667940.jpg)
You're lucky most of you only had to put up with this guy for eight years (I still remember how much better it was with Ann Richards in charge).