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Main Discussion Zone => Biblical Contradictions => Topic started by: Operator_019 on November 12, 2010, 10:26:11 PM

Title: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Operator_019 on November 12, 2010, 10:26:11 PM
http://www.fastcodesign.com/1662676/infographic-of-the-day-what-the-bible-got-wrong (http://www.fastcodesign.com/1662676/infographic-of-the-day-what-the-bible-got-wrong)

Downloadable graph connecting all the biblical contradictions to their corresponding verses.

Enjoy!

019
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: William on November 12, 2010, 10:46:01 PM
That's quite artistic  :)
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: kin hell on November 13, 2010, 02:14:24 AM
..........it's certainly got the poor victimised majority (xians) upset if the comments are anything to go by.

Interesting to note that they are very very happy to find 3 (at last count) redundancies,  thereby claiming the graph is in error and thus easy to dismiss.
Perhaps they should apply the same rigid criteria to their bible.

Stupid stupid monkeys wrote the bible well before Shakespeare sharpened his first quill.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: screwtape on November 13, 2010, 01:30:06 PM
Nice find 019.  Keep up the good work. 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Str82Hell on November 13, 2010, 02:40:18 PM
Wow:

Quote
Mark Carbone
Yesterday 11:00 AM
Suzanne,
I take offense to you. I'd love to see you talk in this way if it was the Koran you were trying to slam and degrade.

You are not funny. You are lost and a kid who doesn't get it yet. I understand that. Your world is small but don't disrespect what I value.

It is not OK to slam Christianity. I expect an answer because we are sick and tired of getting persecuted. It is not alright to slam us anymore.

We are not going to sit back and take it anymore.

You can believe whatever you want but if you are going to do that, be fair and highlight all the contradictions in the Koran.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: naemhni on November 13, 2010, 03:02:41 PM
Wow:

Quote
Mark Carbone
Yesterday 11:00 AM
Suzanne,
I take offense to you. I'd love to see you talk in this way if it was the Koran you were trying to slam and degrade.

You are not funny. You are lost and a kid who doesn't get it yet. I understand that. Your world is small but don't disrespect what I value.

It is not OK to slam Christianity. I expect an answer because we are sick and tired of getting persecuted. It is not alright to slam us anymore.

We are not going to sit back and take it anymore.

You can believe whatever you want but if you are going to do that, be fair and highlight all the contradictions in the Koran.

Wow, indeed.  Don't you just love it when Christians exhibit Fatwa envy (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fatwa_envy)?

Edit: Corrected link (twice).
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Graybeard on November 14, 2010, 09:47:06 AM
Meh! If it weren't full of holes you wouldn't need faith. And what would apologists use to keep themselves in employment?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: screwtape on November 15, 2010, 10:18:30 AM
Wow:

Fricken whiners. This guy was the whiney kid in first grade who pissed and moaned when he got in trouble "but Sally did the same thing and didn't get in trouble!"  Shut the fuck up, kid.  Life's not fair.  Your religion is riddled with holes and contradictions and whining about the koran and crying persecution is not going to change that. 

What a pussy.  If jesus H ever met this Mark Carbone pussy, he'd be disgusted.  He'd slap him in face and tell him to be man, just like Vito did to Johnny Fontane in the Godfather.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: pingnak on November 15, 2010, 03:13:37 PM
That 'Jesus Camp' movie is chock full of 'fatwa envy'.  That fat lady who runs the place can't stop complaining about what islamists get to do versus christians, and how they need to 'catch up' to them.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/jesus-camp/
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: velkyn on November 15, 2010, 03:33:18 PM
"we're not going to sit back and take it anymore".  Wow, seems that this Christian missed the part of their bible where his "messiah" says to do just that. 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Fiji on November 16, 2010, 03:48:19 AM
"we're not going to sit back and take it anymore".  Wow, seems that this Christian missed the part of their bible where his "messiah" says to do just that. 

nah, they just read the contradicting part where Jesus chases some people around a temple while swinging a weapon he just made (see, son of a carpenter therefor he knew how to make weapons!!! proof of god!!!)  &)
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Pounamu on November 16, 2010, 04:10:31 AM
Wow, beautiful! Especially if we look at the PDF file - the New Testament is so full of contradictions, that its not graphics anymore, it's a mere stain! Hilarious! :D

Thanks 19.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: plethora on November 16, 2010, 05:55:15 AM
Thanks mod19!

I'm having a look at the pdf files here:
http://www.project-reason.org/gallery3/image/105/ (http://www.project-reason.org/gallery3/image/105/)

I might just print this puppy and hang it on my wall.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: velkyn on November 16, 2010, 09:39:50 AM
"we're not going to sit back and take it anymore".  Wow, seems that this Christian missed the part of their bible where his "messiah" says to do just that. 

nah, they just read the contradicting part where Jesus chases some people around a temple while swinging a weapon he just made (see, son of a carpenter therefor he knew how to make weapons!!! proof of god!!!)  &)

from what actual history shows, I'm more inclined to think that Jesus was just jealous (god required that activity in the temple grounds since regular money wasn't good enough for God) and tired of having to rely on the working girls to support him. 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: ronsterporkchompster on February 09, 2011, 10:34:43 PM
Wow that graph has more lines on it than Charlie Sheen's coffee table.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: machinehead on February 12, 2011, 04:24:39 AM
I remember seeing that a while back. I think I downloaded it too. I'd been meaning to go back and actually go through it point by point to see what I may not have heard or read before.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: enagua on March 03, 2011, 10:00:49 PM
The most beautiful thing I have seen come from the bible.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: velkyn on March 04, 2011, 09:16:18 AM
welcom enagua.  Vague claims aren't looked upon here with much favor.  Some of the most horrific things I have heard of come from the bible too.  Like genocide, rape and the pointless eternal torture for finite crimes by a typical Bronze Age god.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: kin hell on March 04, 2011, 10:15:44 AM
welcom enagua.  Vague claims aren't looked upon here with much favor.  Some of the most horrific things I have heard of come from the bible too.  Like genocide, rape and the pointless eternal torture for finite crimes by a typical Bronze Age god.

.........ambiguity strikes again velky  ;)

I read enagua's comment to be a positive appraisal of the beauty of the graphic of the contradictions chart.

I would've expected a gushing for god comment to be structured slightly differently as in
Quote from: enagua

link=topic=16507.msg401581#msg401581 date=1299207649
The most beautiful things I have seen come from the bible.
my bold s.

the stupidity of my expectation of course, is the expectation of correct grammer. Not that I can talk.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: enagua on March 04, 2011, 02:06:33 PM
welcom enagua.  Vague claims aren't looked upon here with much favor.  Some of the most horrific things I have heard of come from the bible too.  Like genocide, rape and the pointless eternal torture for finite crimes by a typical Bronze Age god.

My apologies for not expressing myself clearly. I find the graph to be an amazing artistic visual showing the inconsistencies in the bible. There isn't very many stories, versus, or ideals from that quote "holy book" that I agree with or find appealing.

This graph however left me speechless on how to accurately describe the effect it had on me.

I will be more precise in the future. Thank you!
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: velkyn on March 04, 2011, 02:53:04 PM
no problem.  You should go to the introductions section and let us know a bit more about you  :) Nice to see another gal on the boards.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Str82Hell on March 05, 2011, 04:09:16 AM
I accidentally read an -s behind 'thing'.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: commonsense247 on September 04, 2011, 12:25:24 PM
Just use COMMON SENSE!
Why trying to get rid of something or someone that don't exist?

Yet people in here DO NOT use common sense at all.  They are narrow minded and close minded.  Their brain are so little that they don't even know they are contradicting themselves already. 

If only, the stupid people in here would just use common sense...

HERE IS COMMON SENSE;
if there is really "NO GOD" like you stupid people said, why waste your time on proving and trying to get rid of something that don't exist, that is kind of STUPID!

I mean really, if "GOD DON'T EXIST" - than DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME ANYMORE on proving and trying to get rid of something that don't exist in the first place - that is STUPID and there by contradicting yourselves - you said one thing, but your action is the opposite of what you said.

The fact and reason why you guys are trying so hard and so stupidly to prove or get rid of something or someone like GOD, that you said don't exist in the first place - is a BIG PROOF FROM YOUR HEART - THAT YOU BELIEVE GOD EXIST.

Otherwise, why would you - so call "Smart People" or for this matter - STUPID PEOPLE - waste your time in trying so hard to prove and get rid of GOD - someone you said DON'T EXIST in the first place, and thereby contradicting yourself.

If you really want to be SMART and NOT CONTRADICTING YOURSELVES and if you really believe in your own statement that - "God don't exist and God is only an imagination", than...

1. GET RID OF THIS WEBSITE
2. Don't bother wasting your time on trying to prove and get rid of something or someone that you said DON'T EXIST in the
    first place
- someone like GOD!

In other word, DON'T BE STUPID ANYMORE, why bother trying to prove and get rid of GOD - who you said, don't exist in the first place.

WHY TRYING TO GET RID OF SOMETHING OR SOMEONE THAT DON'T EXIST?
You answer this questions?

Don't you think it's STUPID trying to get rid of something or someone that don't exist?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: rev45 on September 04, 2011, 12:44:01 PM
The fact and reason why you guys are trying so hard and so stupidly to prove or get rid of something or someone like God, that you said don't exist in the first place - is a BIG PROOF THAT GOD EXIST.
I'm also active in the disbelief of leprechauns, dragons, demons, perpetual motions machines, and anal probing aliens.  So therefore they exist?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: naemhni on September 04, 2011, 12:44:21 PM
Hi, CommonSense247, welcome to WWGHA.

Just use COMMON SENSE!

As Voltaire wisely observed, "Common sense is not so common."  (As will shortly be demonstrated in your own case, as it happens.  Don't take it personally, none of us are born knowing this stuff, we have to learn it.)

Quote
HERE IS COMMON SENSE; if there is really NO GOD like you stupid people said, why waste your time on proving and trying to get rid of something that don't exist, that is kind of STUPID!

It's not merely a question of whether deities exist.  That matter is open to debate.  However, other matters are not.

1)  There are people who believe deities exist.
2)  They outnumber us by a pretty comfortable margin in most parts of the world.
3)  Many, if not most, of them don't mind their own business.  They make laws based on their religious beliefs, and they discriminate against freethinkers.

If religionists kept their beliefs private, very few atheists would care.  I'm among the strongest of the anti-theists in the world, and even I wouldn't care.

Quote
The fact and reason why you guys are trying so hard and so stupidly to prove or get rid of something or someone like God, that you said don't exist in the first place - is a BIG PROOF THAT GOD EXIST.

Absurd.  People also debate whether the Loch Ness Monster exists.  The fact that there is debate is not proof that Nessie exists.  Quite the contrary, the fact that there is debate indicates quite clearly that the matter is not at all settled.  If it were settled, there would be no debate.

So regarding what you said above:

Quote
Just use COMMON SENSE!

Well... in the immortal words of the Bard, "Physician, heal thyself."
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Emily on September 04, 2011, 01:41:43 PM
Don't you think it's STUPID trying to get rid of something or someone that don't exist?

But it does exist in the minds of millions of fucking people who try impose their spag on me.

here's the thing: If religion can get out of my society, civilization, politics, every day life, etc, then this site is pointless. But it can't and never will. Too fucking bad if this site is fighting back against religion's stronghold on the world..
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: One Above All on September 04, 2011, 01:43:40 PM
Am I the only one who thinks "commonsense247" is the same guy/girl who kept posting the extremely large post with random videos etc over and over again?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Emily on September 04, 2011, 02:00:25 PM
Dave Mabus must be out on bail.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: JeffPT on September 04, 2011, 02:04:04 PM
Just use COMMON SENSE!
Why trying to get rid of something or someone that don't exist?

We're not.  Try to understand this...  Some people believe that God exists.  God doesn't exist.  If that's all it was, no big deal. But the belief in God comes with baggage.  And that baggage is a cancer on the world.  If cancer was a belief system, wouldn't you try to get rid of that too? 

Yet people in here DO NOT use common sense at all.  They are narrow minded and close minded.  Their brain are so little that they don't even know they are contradicting themselves already. 

Hmm.  No, I don't think so.  You may feel free to assert that, but it's bullshit.  What is narrow minded about the atheist position, which is nothing more than a conclusion drawn from an examination of the facts?  Is it narrow minded to believe that the earth revolves around the sun?  That clouds make rain?  What you see as narrow minded is simply people forming a conclusion based on (in this case) massive lack of evidence.  If you were to present solid evidence for God, you would probably see converts. 

If only, the stupid people in here would just use common sense...

I agree.  But by-in-large, the theists we get here just won't do it. 

if there is really "NO GOD" like you stupid people said, why waste your time on proving and trying to get rid of something that don't exist, that is kind of STUPID!

If stupid people didn't assert that God exists in the first place, we wouldn't have to be here.  Without someone first believing in a God, there is no such thing as an atheist.  The Christians are the one's saying God exists, not us. Why are you not over at the Christian websites screaming at them saying "WHY DON'T YOU USE COMMON SENSE? STOP TRYING TO PROVE GOD IS REAL" ? 

I mean really, if "GOD DON'T EXIST" - than DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME ANYMORE on proving and trying to get rid of something that don't exist in the first place - that is STUPID and there by contradicting yourselves - you said one thing, but your action is the opposite of what you said.

No, we're not.  Belief systems can be very dangerous.  One that revolves around the existence of a supernatural deity is no exception. 

The fact and reason why you guys are trying so hard and so stupidly to prove or get rid of something or someone like GOD, that you said don't exist in the first place - is a BIG PROOF FROM YOUR HEART - THAT YOU BELIEVE GOD EXIST.

No, it's not even remotely that.  You aren't using your common sense here at all.  We aren't trying to get rid of that which doesn't exist; we are trying to get rid of the BELIEF in that which doesn't exist, because that BELIEF is awful for the world.  This is pretty easy stuff here commonsense.  For someone who thinks so highly of his own ability to use common sense, you seem to suck at it.  Try to keep up. 

Otherwise, why would you - so call "Smart People" or for this matter - STUPID PEOPLE - waste your time in trying so hard to prove and get rid of GOD - someone you said DON'T EXIST in the first place, and thereby contradicting yourself.

Yes, yes, we got it.  You keep repeating this as if it changes every time.  You're still wrong each time, but the words are different, and there's different amounts of bolding and underlining to look at.  All of which seems to indicate that you are sure of yourself here.  That just makes you look more like a fool. 

If you really want to be SMART and NOT CONTRADICTING YOURSELVES and if you really believe in your own statement that - "God don't exist and God is only an imagination", than...

1. GET RID OF THIS WEBSITE
2. Don't bother wasting your time on trying to prove and get rid of something or someone that you said DON'T EXIST in the
    first place
- someone like GOD!

Same argument, still wrong.

In other word, DON'T BE STUPID ANYMORE, why bother trying to prove and get rid of GOD - who you said, don't exist in the first place.

Same argument, still wrong.

WHY TRYING TO GET RID OF SOMETHING OR SOMEONE THAT DON'T EXIST?

Same argument, still wrong.  This is getting pretty boring.

You answer this questions?

Yes, easily. 

Don't you think it's STUPID trying to get rid of something or someone that don't exist?

Yes.  And if that's what we were trying to do, you'd have a point.  Unfortunately, it's not what we are doing at all. You aren't using common sense, commonsense. 

The funny thing is, however, we could respond to you all day, over and over again against this line of thought you're having, but there I would bet anything that you won't give up on it.  We've told you how we are categorically NOT trying to "get rid of something that doesn't exist".  What we are doing is trying to get people to stop BELIEVING in something that doesn't exist.  Even though, that is an absolute fact, I bet that mantra will continue to play over and over again in your mind "They are so stupid! They are trying to get rid of something that doesn't exist!"  Listen to me again.  No, we are not.  We are not doing that at all.  Let that sink into your mind for a moment.  We are NOT doing that.  There, do you have it now?  Is it in there yet?  Do you see now how this is NOT what we are doing?  Try to stay with me here.  What we are doing is trying to get people to STOP BELIEVING in something which doesn't exist, because the belief that God exists is a terrible thing for the world.  Do you have it now? 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: naemhni on September 04, 2011, 03:23:25 PM
Oh, yeah, that's right.  It makes no difference at all whether people believe or not.  It's not like our tax dollars are being used to try to convert members of the military to Christianity, or anything.

Oh, wait... (http://atheists.org/blog/2011/09/04/millions-of-taxpayer-dollars-used-to-convert-soldiers-and-their-children-to-christianity)
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Aaron123 on September 04, 2011, 06:09:40 PM
I'm betting that commonsense247 is a drive-by.


If so, I'm really not sure it's worth bothering to respond to him.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: velkyn on September 05, 2011, 12:42:34 PM
1. GET RID OF THIS WEBSITE
2. Don't bother wasting your time on trying to prove and get rid of something or someone that you said DON'T EXIST in the
    first place
- someone like GOD!

oh, one more clever sheep who thinks that they have found the way to make atheists sit down and shut up. 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: plethora on September 06, 2011, 08:53:39 AM
Just use COMMON SENSE!

I use logic and reason.

Quote
Why trying to get rid of something or someone that don't exist?

Religion exists. Belief in dangerous dogmas exists. The damage religion does to society and humanity in general is real. That's what I'm trying to get rid of.

Quote
Yet people in here DO NOT use common sense at all.  They are narrow minded and close minded.  Their brain are so little that they don't even know they are contradicting themselves already. 

Typical rabid theist. You accuse anyone who disagrees with your worldview of being close-minded... and yet you're the one writing in caps, using excessive bolds and underlines and repeating yourself over and over.

Quote
If only, the stupid people in here would just use common sense...

Insulting us too? Charming.
Way to represent. Your fellow christians must be proud.

Quote
HERE IS COMMON SENSE;
if there is really "NO GOD" like you stupid people said, why waste your time on proving and trying to get rid of something that don't exist, that is kind of STUPID!

Like I said, religion exists and the damage it does is real. That's what I'm fighting against.

Quote
I mean really, if "GOD DON'T EXIST" - than DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME ANYMORE on proving and trying to get rid of something that don't exist in the first place - that is STUPID and there by contradicting yourselves - you said one thing, but your action is the opposite of what you said.

People like you exist, unfortunately. As long as there are people who think the way you do I will put time and effort into trying to bring them to reason and critical thinking.

Quote
The fact and reason why you guys are trying so hard and so stupidly to prove or get rid of something or someone like GOD, that you said don't exist in the first place - is a BIG PROOF FROM YOUR HEART - THAT YOU BELIEVE GOD EXIST.

No. I am responding to theist's claims that a god exists. It is up to theists like you to prove that he does exist. So far, no theist has been able to prove the existence of a god. That is why I don't believe any gods exist.

But I do respond to the actions taken by theists that affect me and the society I live in. Theists try to impose their dogma on us via legislation, they spread hatred against people of other religions, race, sexual orientation, etc ...

As long as theists keep fucking with me and the society I live in... I will not stand down and be quiet... no matter how much they scream at me like you do.

Quote
Otherwise, why would you - so call "Smart People" or for this matter - STUPID PEOPLE - waste your time in trying so hard to prove and get rid of GOD - someone you said DON'T EXIST in the first place, and thereby contradicting yourself.

Does this actually work for you? I mean ... have you ever persuaded anyone by just screaming the same thing at them over and over?

Quote
If you really want to be SMART and NOT CONTRADICTING YOURSELVES and if you really believe in your own statement that - "God don't exist and God is only an imagination", than...

... and you're a fine example of what it is to be "smart" aren't you? (sarcasm).

Quote
1. GET RID OF THIS WEBSITE

No.

Quote
2. Don't bother wasting your time on trying to prove and get rid of something or someone that you said DON'T EXIST in the
    first place
- someone like GOD!

I can turn this into a drinking game. Every time you say that I'll take a shot.

Quote
In other word, DON'T BE STUPID ANYMORE, why bother trying to prove and get rid of GOD - who you said, don't exist in the first place.

Yay! * takes a shot *

Quote
WHY TRYING TO GET RID OF SOMETHING OR SOMEONE THAT DON'T EXIST?

Yay! * takes a shot *

Quote
You answer this questions?

Yes, I did.

Quote
Don't you think it's STUPID trying to get rid of something or someone that don't exist?

Yay! * takes a shot *
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Hatter23 on September 06, 2011, 12:47:26 PM
1. GET RID OF THIS WEBSITE
2. Don't bother wasting your time on trying to prove and get rid of something or someone that you said DON'T EXIST in the
    first place
- someone like GOD!

oh, one more clever sheep who thinks that they have found the way to make atheists sit down and shut up.

Clever? The whole "why do you bother trying to get rid of something that doesn't exist" is trite and old. It is up there with the circular reasoning and appeal to ignorance in its commonality. The whole introduction I made of "Why I Blaspheme" was in response to hearing this for the umpteenth time.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: velkyn on September 06, 2011, 05:42:06 PM
this kind of clever sheep:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkw2DdoskPY
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 09, 2011, 06:41:36 PM
Hi. everyone.
I am new here.
I am 37, male, married, 3 kids, self employed truth seeking person.
Please accept my apology for not going through "Introductions" columns (I couldn't figure out how).
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Alzael on September 09, 2011, 06:45:03 PM
Hi. everyone.
I am new here.
I am 37, male, married, 3 kids, self employed truth seeking person.
Please accept my apology for not going through "Introductions" columns (I couldn't figure out how).


You need 3 posts before you can create a topic of your own.

Welcome to the party.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 09, 2011, 08:11:47 PM
I only had little time on my hand to look through the "Biblical contraction graph" but with my limited biblical knowledge, I have yet unable to find any contradictions.
1)How many men did the chief of David's captains kill?
it's two different persons (Josheb Basshebeth, a Tahkemonite and Jashobeam, a Hacmonite)

2)Was Abraham justified by faith or by works?
In James 2:22 "You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did" I think this verse explains it 'true faith always produces fruits'

3)How many sons did Abraham have?
when Abraham was tested on the Mt. Moriah, his many sons weren't born yet. there was only one other son named Ishmael, but regarding him, God said in Genesis 21:12 "But God said to him, "Do not be so distressed about the boy(Ishmael)and your maidservant(Hagar, the Egyptian). Listen to whatever Sarah tells you(making them leave), because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.
In the eyes of God, there was only one true son (God's promised child) Isaac.
Genesis 17:19 "Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him."


4)Was Abiathar the father or the son of Ahimelech?
This genealogy thing gets kind of boring, but let me try.
in 1Sam 22:20-23, Ahimelech was the father of Abiathar
in 2Sam 8:17, 1 Chron 18:16, and 1 Chron 24:6, Abiathar (the son of Ahimelech) was the father of a child he named Ahimelech.
In other words, there is a guy named Jim, and Jim's son's name is John and John's son's name is Jim.
(common names.)

5)Who was Abijam's mother?
In 1Kings 15:8,11 Asa is said to have been the son of both Abijab his father and the son of David, the latter being more precisely his great, great, grandfather"

Maachah or Michaiah are the same person different spelling

Abisalom or Absalom(Son of  king David) are the same person.

Maachah was a daughter of Uriel.
And granddaughter of Absalom.
It’s just one of  many cultural things of Israel.
Israelites still call Abraham “father” not great great great…. Grandfather.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: velkyn on September 12, 2011, 12:16:54 PM
well, I'll take the first one since you are already wrong in your claim.

I only had little time on my hand to look through the "Biblical contraction graph" but with my limited biblical knowledge, I have yet unable to find any contradictions.
1)How many men did the chief of David's captains kill?
it's two different persons (Josheb Basshebeth, a Tahkemonite and Jashobeam, a Hacmonite)
Let's look at the quotes.  You might want to read your bible, CD. 

Quote
2 Samuel 23:8 These are the names of David’s mighty warriors:
   Josheb-Basshebeth, a Tahkemonite, was chief of the Three; he raised his spear against eight hundred men, whom he killed in one encounter. 9 Next to him was Eleazar son of Dodai the Ahohite. As one of the three mighty warriors, he was with David when they taunted the Philistines gathered at Pas Dammim[d] for battle. Then the Israelites retreated, 10 but Eleazar stood his ground and struck down the Philistines till his hand grew tired and froze to the sword. The LORD brought about a great victory that day. The troops returned to Eleazar, but only to strip the dead.

 11 Next to him was Shammah son of Agee the Hararite. When the Philistines banded together at a place where there was a field full of lentils, Israel’s troops fled from them. 12 But Shammah took his stand in the middle of the field. He defended it and struck the Philistines down, and the LORD brought about a great victory.

and
Quote
1 Chronicles 11:10 These were the chiefs of David’s mighty warriors—they, together with all Israel, gave his kingship strong support to extend it over the whole land, as the LORD had promised— 11 this is the list of David’s mighty warriors:
   Jashobeam, a Hakmonite, was chief of the officers[c]; he raised his spear against three hundred men, whom he killed in one encounter. 12 Next to him was Eleazar son of Dodai the Ahohite, one of the three mighty warriors. 13 He was with David at Pas Dammim when the Philistines gathered there for battle. At a place where there was a field full of barley, the troops fled from the Philistines. 14 But they took their stand in the middle of the field. They defended it and struck the Philistines down, and the LORD brought about a great victory. 

So you want claim it was two different men.  Unfortunately for you, they are talking about the same man.  And they make the claim that the same man slew 800 and in a retelling, slew 300, and also can't get the name or the nationality right.  You see that Eleazar doesn't have that problem and is the same one.  Your bible can't keep itself straight.  how does that work with a book that comes from a suposedly omniscient/omnipotent/omnibenevolent god? 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: screwtape on September 12, 2011, 12:32:42 PM
2 Sam 23:
Josheb-Basshebeth, a Tahkemonite
Eleazar son of Dodai the Ahohite.
Shammah son of Agee the Hararite.

1 chron 11:
Jashobeam, a Hakmonite,
Eleazar son of Dodai the Ahohite
Abishai the brother of Joab was chief of the Three (1 chron 11:20)

shammah was listed as a warrior later (just a warrior, not one of the three):
1 chron 11:27 Shammoth the Harorite
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20chron%2011&version=NIV

It looks to me like there were two different stories from two different traditions and both were kept to please both peoples.  Is it also possible that josheb in 2 sam and jashobeam in 1 chron are the same person, with variations on spelling?  The names and villages are similar...

Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: albeto on September 12, 2011, 09:01:46 PM
I only had little time on my hand to look through the "Biblical contraction graph" but with my limited biblical knowledge, I have yet unable to find any contradictions.

I find it difficult to understand how you could fail to find any contradictions in the bible.  BaalServant illustrates a great visual of contradictions in just one part of one story in this thread (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,19965.0.html). 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: kin hell on September 12, 2011, 10:31:15 PM


I only had little time on my hand to look through the "Biblical contraction graph" but with my limited biblical knowledge, I have yet unable to find any contradictions.

Let me help you oh limited one.

Judas dies by hanging vs Judas dies by falling down


Matthew 27:3-8 and Acts 1:16-19

By hanging (Matthew 27:3-8) - "Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? See to that yourself!" 5And he threw the pieces of silver into the sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself. 6And the chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, "It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood." 7And they counseled together and with the money bought the Potter’s Field as a burial place for strangers. 8For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day."
By falling (Acts 1:16-19) - "Brethren, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. 17"For he was counted among us, and received his portion in this ministry." 18(Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. 19And it became known to all who were living in Jerusalem; so that in their own language that field was called Hakeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)"
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: pingnak on September 12, 2011, 11:27:46 PM
(Wrong topic.  Pesky multiple tabz!)
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 13, 2011, 08:02:30 AM
Unfortunately for you, they are talking about the same man.
what evidence do you have to back that statement up?
I think ST's statement is more convincing.

It looks to me like there were two different stories from two different traditions and both were kept to please both peoples.  Is it also possible that josheb in 2 sam and jashobeam in 1 chron are the same person, with variations on spelling?  The names and villages are similar...

And regarding the dying story of Judas...

Maybe he hung himself and the rope broke and he fell on the ground and his belly bursts open...... ;)

And regarding Baalservant's illustration,

Maybe all those things happened. couldn't tell who went to the tomb first, but I think it is possible.

I know all I am saying is 'maybes' but may point is,
for example,
"yesterday Sam went Toronto" vs "yesterday Sarah went Toronto"
it could be two different stories or maybe they both went to Toronto yesterday.
but no contradictions here.

To me, in order for two statements to contradict each other, it should be like this,
"Sam was the only person who went to Toronto yesterday" vs "Sarah went to Toronto yesterday"
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: albeto on September 13, 2011, 09:30:00 AM
Maybe all those things happened. couldn't tell who went to the tomb first, but I think it is possible.


I suppose all those things could have happened.  John and Peter were simultaneously there and not there, there were simultaneously many women and yet only one (maybe she was really fat?).  Maybe god just hit the rewind button on his omni-remote control and called a "do-over" multiple times.  All things are possible with god, except of course healing amputees and curing mental health illnesses. 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: velkyn on September 13, 2011, 10:09:30 AM
Unfortunately for you, they are talking about the same man.
what evidence do you have to back that statement up?
I think ST's statement is more convincing.
good for you then.  Any evidence that your claim that there is no contradictions in teh bible then? 

Quote
And regarding the dying story of Judas...

Maybe he hung himself and the rope broke and he fell on the ground and his belly bursts open...... ;)
one more repair to your bible, CD?  So much for it being "divinely" inspired. 

Yes, you are only saying "maybe" and with no evidence to support your worthless claims.  How not suprising.  If you are saying "sam went to toronto" and you mistakenly write "sarah went to toronto" and one is true, then you are contradicting yourself.  IF neither went to toronto, you are lying.  So, with no evidence of any action, why think the bible is saying anything true at all? 

Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 13, 2011, 10:11:18 AM
Maybe all those things happened. couldn't tell who went to the tomb first, but I think it is possible.


I suppose all those things could have happened.  John and Peter were simultaneously there and not there, there were simultaneously many women and yet only one (maybe she was really fat?).  Maybe god just hit the rewind button on his omni-remote control and called a "do-over" multiple times.  All things are possible with god, except of course healing amputees and curing mental health illnesses.
I don't see any bible verse says John and Peter were the only ones there or there was only one woman visited Jesus's tomb on that day (Sunday).

Like I said, maybe they all went there but different timing.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 13, 2011, 10:15:47 AM
good for you then.  Any evidence that your claim that there is no contradictions in teh bible then? 
Velkyn,

Isn't it you who is making 'positive claim'?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: One Above All on September 13, 2011, 10:17:55 AM
good for you then.  Any evidence that your claim that there is no contradictions in teh bible then? 
Velkyn,

Isn't it you who is making 'positive claim'?

I'm not velkyn, but I don't see any positive claim in her post, merely a request for evidence for YOUR claim that the Bible is inerrant
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 13, 2011, 10:30:36 AM
Velkyn is saying "there IS contradiction" whereas, I am saying "no there isn't, if there IS, show me"

Therefore, I can not prove anything nor in a position to show anybody any evidence, because I am making negative claim.

So she has to prove that there IS contradiction in the bible, and show me evidence.

Isn't it how it works here?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: One Above All on September 13, 2011, 10:31:43 AM
Velkyn is saying "there IS contradiction" whereas, I am saying "no there isn't, if there IS, show me"

Read again. velkyn asked if you had evidence for your point
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 13, 2011, 10:49:35 AM
My point is "there is NO contradictions in the bible"

if there IS, show me the evidence.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: One Above All on September 13, 2011, 11:06:02 AM
My point is "there is NO contradictions in the bible"

if there IS, show me the evidence.

Bold mine. And there's your positive claim. Evidence, please
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 13, 2011, 11:07:13 AM
My point is "there is NO contradictions in the bible"

if there IS, show me the evidence.

Bold mine. And there's your positive claim. Evidence, please
there is no god
Bold mine. And there's your positive claim. Evidence, please
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: One Above All on September 13, 2011, 11:14:39 AM
My point is "there is NO contradictions in the bible"

if there IS, show me the evidence.

Bold mine. And there's your positive claim. Evidence, please
there is no god
Bold mine. And there's your positive claim. Evidence, please

Alright. Since the definition of a god is left to personal interpretation, here's mine:
Omnipotent and omniscient being
Omnipotence creates a bunch of inconsistencies, like the ability to create things that are impossible in a place (universe) that is ruled by logic. Obviously this only applies to my definition of a god
EDIT: Now stop dodging and show evidence that the Bible is inerrant
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 13, 2011, 11:20:22 AM
No mean to be rude, but I don't see any dodging.

and there is no evidence in your answer.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: One Above All on September 13, 2011, 11:21:53 AM
No mean to be rude, but I don't see any dodging.

How about the fact that when people ask you for evidence for your point that you try to shift who actually needs to show the evidence and then just ask questions instead of answering them?

and there is no evidence in your answer.

Showing that it's logically inconsistent isn't evidence? No wonder you believe in a god
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 13, 2011, 12:37:21 PM
No mean to be rude, but I don't see any dodging.

How about the fact that when people ask you for evidence for your point that you try to shift who actually needs to show the evidence and then just ask questions instead of answering them?

Unfortunately for you, they are talking about the same man.
what evidence do you have to back that statement up?
I think ST's statement is more convincing.
good for you then.  Any evidence that your claim that there is no contradictions in teh bible then? 

can you see who started this dodging thingy now?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: One Above All on September 13, 2011, 12:39:32 PM
can you see who started this dodging thingy now?

Say for a second that I agree with you. Does that make it right that you dodged as well? Because as I mentioned before, I'm not velkyn. I answered your dodges but I didn't get my answers yet. Show evidence that the Bible is inerrant
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 13, 2011, 12:44:23 PM
can you see who started this dodging thingy now?

Say for a second that I agree with you. Does that make it right that you dodged as well? Because as I mentioned before, I'm not velkyn. I answered your dodges but I didn't get my answers yet. Show evidence that the Bible is inerrant
I am sorry, but I can not prove something that doesn't exist (Biblical contradictions)
therefore, I have no evidence.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: One Above All on September 13, 2011, 12:48:24 PM
I am sorry, but I can not prove something that doesn't exist (Biblical contradictions)
therefore, I have no evidence.

I'm guessing English isn't your first language
I asked for evidence that the Bible is without contradictions, not your claim that it is inerrant. Enormous difference there
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: patty_lt on September 13, 2011, 12:54:02 PM
Quote
And regarding the dying story of Judas...

Maybe he hung himself and the rope broke and he fell on the ground and his belly bursts open...... ;)

And regarding Baalservant's illustration,

Maybe all those things happened. couldn't tell who went to the tomb first, but I think it is possible.
It drives me a little bonkers when theists do this.  This combining of stories to remove contradictions is now creating a NEW story and one that isn't in the bible.  If Judas did both or if certain persons were at the tomb first, the story should reflect this.  It doesn't.  That makes it a contradiction... not a new "I put it together in my head story so now it isn't a contradiction."  Isn't this book inspired and without error? <hint> The answer is NO.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: velkyn on September 13, 2011, 01:07:37 PM
I don't see any bible verse says John and Peter were the only ones there or there was only one woman visited Jesus's tomb on that day (Sunday).

Like I said, maybe they all went there but different timing.

Unfortunately your gospels show that your claims are wrong.  It must be scary to realize that a book that you claim is divinely inspired is so flawed that your god evidently depends on flawed humans to make any sense of it. 

and dear, I've shown you the contradictions.  You are making claims with no evidence to support them, that the bible doesn't have contradicting claims on who was first to the tomb, that there were two different people who was David's chief warrior, etc.  claiming that the bible doesn't "really" say what it does.  I want to know how you know this.  If you make the claim, you must have some evidence that what it says isn't the literal case. 
 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 13, 2011, 01:44:20 PM
Velkyn,
let's look at the context!
I have no special spiritual power to know and to understand what is outside the bible, that is why I was saying "maybe that's what happened here and there".

I am not here to make stories up and say 'ya'all believe me'
rather, I am trying to tell you "we don't know what is outside the context,"
To help you understand, here is an example
"king's chief warrior killed 300 men in a battle" and in a different book of bible it says "king's chief warrior killed 800 men in a battle"

what makes you think it is the same person.
MAYBE same person, but MAYBE different battle?
You don't know and neither do I.

but there is certainly no contradictions anywhere. because we don't know.

Here is another one.
In my diary, I wrote "I went to Toronto yesterday" and in my other dairy I wrote"I went to Hamilton yesterday" do you see a contradiction?
I certainly don't, because I went to Toronto first and went to Hamilton, yesterday.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: velkyn on September 13, 2011, 01:50:19 PM
oh, “context” one of the favorite bits of nonsense that Christians run to.  Sorry, the context doesn’t help you either.  If you think it does, explain it to me.  The context is relating the same story and gets the details wrong. It isn’t describing a different battle, it is giving a list of men in the same event.  Same with the gospels, it is giving different versions of the *same* event.  We have the thieves on the crosses saying completely different and contradictory things.  There is no other time JC is up on the cross to “mistake” it for.

Why does it do that?  Is this a divinely inspired book or not?  If not, then it’s just as likely to be wrong as the Illiad.  No gods appeared, no gods exist.  It’s just a story.

CD, you are trying to excuse your holy book for its errors by trying to claim it doesn’t contradict itself.  The gospels show that it does.  Let me ask you, did the disciples go to into hiding or did they celebrate at the temple?  We get both claims and they both can’t be true.  Either they were wanted men or they weren’t.   

Quote
Here is another one.
In my diary, I wrote "I went to Toronto yesterday" and in my other dairy I wrote"I went to Hamilton yesterday" do you see a contradiction?
I certainly don't, because I went to Toronto first and went to Hamilton, yesterday.
Unfortunately for you, the bible claims to be a depiction of events as they happened, not your diary. 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Hatter23 on September 13, 2011, 02:15:39 PM
Quote
And regarding the dying story of Judas...

Maybe he hung himself and the rope broke and he fell on the ground and his belly bursts open...... ;)

And regarding Baalservant's illustration,

Maybe all those things happened. couldn't tell who went to the tomb first, but I think it is possible.
It drives me a little bonkers when theists do this.  This combining of stories to remove contradictions is now creating a NEW story and one that isn't in the bible.  If Judas did both or if certain persons were at the tomb first, the story should reflect this.  It doesn't.  That makes it a contradiction... not a new "I put it together in my head story so now it isn't a contradiction."  Isn't this book inspired and without error? <hint> The answer is NO.

It equally drive me bokers. It reminds me of when you catch a little kid in a lie(through contradiction) and they then invent a new story that makes it not a contradiction, even though the new story has elements in it that are so wild, significant, and/or obvious that they would have been mentioned in the first place.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: screwtape on September 14, 2011, 01:23:14 PM
I think ST's statement is more convincing.

My point was, the bible is muddled, unclear and conflicted.  Which is the same as saying the bible has contradictions.  Who were David's 3 chief asskickers?  In one verse it is Jashobeam, Eleazar and Abishai.  In another it is Josheb-Basshebeth, Eleazar and Shammah.  Which is it?

1 Chron 12-14 tells this story:
Quote
Next to him was Eleazar son of Dodai the Ahohite, one of the three mighty warriors. 13 He was with David at Pas Dammim when the Philistines gathered there for battle. At a place where there was a field full of barley, the troops fled from the Philistines. 14 But they took their stand in the middle of the field. They defended it and struck the Philistines down, and the LORD brought about a great victory.

bold mine.

compare with an almost identical story in 2 Sam 11-12:
Quote
Next to him was Shammah son of Agee the Hararite. When the Philistines banded together at a place where there was a field full of lentils, Israel’s troops fled from them. 12 But Shammah took his stand in the middle of the field. He defended it and struck the Philistines down, and the LORD brought about a great victory.

Same story (more or less), different guy.  You might say, "maybe they both did the same thing."  Seriously?  It seems pretty obvious to me this is the same story from different tribes, each of whom inserted their local legendary hero.  Does that really seem less likely to you than there being two separate battles with the Philistines, one in a barle field, one in a lentil field, both where the jooz ran away, both where defeat was avoided by separate heroes? 


Add to that 1 chron and 2 Sam have differences on Abashai.  1 Chron calls him 1 of the 3.  2Sam 18 says:
Quote
Abishai the brother of Joab son of Zeruiah was chief of the Three.[e] He raised his spear against three hundred men, whom he killed, and so he became as famous as the Three. 19 Was he not held in greater honor than the Three? He became their commander, even though he was not included among them.


The story in 1 chron is identical except it seemed to include him in the 3.  Or if not, it failed to mention the third.

Do you get what I'm driving at?  The bible is not clear.  Does this appear to be the inspired work of the perfect, omnipotent creator of the universe?  Or does it appear to be a collection of stories by a bunch of iron age savages who were concerned with tribal bragging rights?

If you are not the kind of person who believes in biblical inerrancy or literalism, then this may not be such a big deal for you.  You might shrug your shoulders and not see the significance of this.  However, you should understand that all this adds up to the bible - the ostensible foundations your beliefs - being an unreliable witness of history.  Thus, your foundation is built on quicksand. 


Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Benny on September 15, 2011, 11:23:01 AM
No mean to be rude, but I don't see any dodging.

How about the fact that when people ask you for evidence for your point that you try to shift who actually needs to show the evidence and then just ask questions instead of answering them?

Unfortunately for you, they are talking about the same man.
what evidence do you have to back that statement up?
I think ST's statement is more convincing.
good for you then.  Any evidence that your claim that there is no contradictions in teh bible then? 

can you see who started this dodging thingy now?

No, and we're not taking you seriously unless you can answer OUR questions, including ST's last post (you are getting Darwins screwtape, JSYK)  and if you can't do that, your claims are irrelevant, falsified, and moronic, to say the least.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 15, 2011, 10:22:08 PM
Who were David's 3 chief asskickers?  In one verse it is Jashobeam, Eleazar and Abishai.  In another it is Josheb-Basshebeth, Eleazar and Shammah.  Which is it?
David's 3 kick ass mutha fukas were Jashobeam, Eleazar and Abishai and then later on Jashobeam and Abishai got their asses kicked so david recruited 2 more mutha fukas,
so it's now Josheb-Basshebeth, Eleazar and Shammah, the furious 3. ;)
you don't think so? then can you come up with an objective evidence that proves I am wrong?

Like I said earlier, for me to say "there is a contradiction in a story" the story should be like this.
"David's 3 warriors were kicking every body's asses and their names were A, B, and C and those 3 never died or changed" vs "David's 3 warriors were kicking everybody's asses and their names were A, B, and D"

Can you see a contradiction in this story? I  do.
Quote
Same story (more or less), different guy.  You might say, "maybe they both did the same thing."  Seriously?  It seems pretty obvious to me this is the same story from different tribes, each of whom inserted their local legendary hero.  Does that really seem less likely to you than there being two separate battles with the Philistines, one in a barley field, one in a lentil field, both where the jooz ran away, both where defeat was avoided by separate heroes? 
and regarding Eleazar and Shammah,  what's wrong with kicking Philistines asses in either a barley or a lentil field?
these 2 dudes obviously have different names and fathers, and origins.

Do you know how many times Israelite kicked Philies' asses?

I don't see either contradiction or even unclearness in this story.
Quote
Do you get what I'm driving at?  The bible is not clear.
when bible is telling history, it can not possibly contain every whys and hows on incidents and individuals. It is rather unnecessary.  because things change, incidents happen, people die, chiefs gets killed, kicked out, promoted, laid off, hired, fired, re-hired, rescued, saved, recruited.....
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 16, 2011, 09:03:03 AM
No, and we're not taking you seriously unless you can answer OUR questions, including ST's last post (you are getting Darwins screwtape, JSYK)  and if you can't do that, your claims are irrelevant, falsified, and moronic, to say the least.
Now I answered ST last post.
Are you taking me seriously, are my claims relevant, true, and genius?

Or are you going to come up with another post and say "shut up, until you answer me, until then, I am going to dodge your question all I want, and tell you to stop dodging you moron, you are not serious, your claims are irrelevant, falsified, and moronic."?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: curiousgirl on September 16, 2011, 09:47:53 AM
David's 3 kick ass mutha fukas were Jashobeam, Eleazar and Abishai and then later on Jashobeam and Abishai got their asses kicked so david recruited 2 more mutha fukas,
so it's now Josheb-Basshebeth, Eleazar and Shammah, the furious 3. ;)
you don't think so? then can you come up with an objective evidence that proves I am wrong?

Magic decoder ring usage. Then reversal of the burden of proof. Nice and fallacious.

Quote
when bible is telling history, it can not possibly contain every whys and hows on incidents and individuals. It is rather unnecessary.  because things change, incidents happen, people die, chiefs gets killed, kicked out, promoted, laid off, hired, fired, re-hired, rescued, saved, recruited.....

Red herring (my bolding added). I only want consistent facts, and that is not what the Bible provides. In another thread, we are discussing this:

Quote
Ezekiel 18
20The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

Then David's baby is killed for his adultery:

Quote
2 Samuel 12
13-14: Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan replied, “The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[a] the LORD, the son born to you will die.”

There are blatant contradictions in the Bible, and not just historical ones. Ones that question the God that the Bible is supposed to support.

Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: plethora on September 16, 2011, 09:56:58 AM
@coram deo

The bible contradicts reality. That's all I care about.

The earth was not created in 6 days.
The earth is not 6000-10000 years old.
The earth is not a flat disc with a dome covering it.
Adam was not the first human.
Eve was not made from Adam's rib.
People never lived 900 years.
There was never a worldwide flood.
The parting of the Red Sea never happened.
There are no such thing as talking snakes.
There are no such thing as people rising from the dead.

... I could go on and on and on ...

All of these things have been thoroughly refuted by science.

You want to argue that the bible has no contradictions? Fine. So fucking what? Doesn't make its contents true.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: velkyn on September 16, 2011, 10:44:35 AM
when bible is telling history, it can not possibly contain every whys and hows on incidents and individuals. It is rather unnecessary.  because things change, incidents happen, people die, chiefs gets killed, kicked out, promoted, laid off, hired, fired, re-hired, rescued, saved, recruited.....

again, we have direct contradictions that you ignore.  What did the thieves on the cross say, CD?  Where the disciples hiding out or celebrating in the temple right after JC was resurrected.  These are not just details they are essential for the story and they cannot both happen at the same time.

Your bible is anything but a divinely inspired book as it claims.  It is a story book, written by many people at various times. They had no god showing them what to write and make mistake after mistake in their ignorance. 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: screwtape on September 16, 2011, 04:42:27 PM
you don't think so? then can you come up with an objective evidence that proves I am wrong?

I know you are being a wise ass because I just drank your milkshake and you really are out of ammo.  But leave ego out of it.  This is important and not just for our discussion.  It is important for you to be a successful human being.  I am going to do you a kindness and try to teach you something useful.  I hope you are receptive to it. 

"Can't prove it doesn't" is the road to ruin.  You see, any child or idiot can make any kind of impossible to prove claim and then say "can't prove it isn't so!"  A dragon lives in my pocket.  Can't prove it doesn't!  There is a teapot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot) orbiting earth.  Can't prove it doesn't!  A dog (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17104.msg379996.html#msg379996) lives in my house without my knowledge.  Can't prove it doesn't!  But that does not make any of those ideas true nor does it provide any justification to believe them.

This is where we talk about burden of proof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof).  You are making the claim, so it is incumbent upon you to give me a reason to believe you.  I loaded you up with scriptural backing.  You have none.  And I talked about likelihoods, not certainties.  So as it stands, I have no reason at all to accept your imaginative narrative.  No one does, not even you.  Sure, it serves to explain away your problem.  But there is no reason in the world to think that it is true because there is no evidence for it.

Like I said earlier, for me to say "there is a contradiction in a story" the story should be like this.

You are being intellectually dishonest.  Quit being such a baby and admit it.


and regarding Eleazar and Shammah,  what's wrong with kicking Philistines asses in either a barley or a lentil field?
these 2 dudes obviously have different names and fathers, and origins.

When you have two ancient stories that are virtually identical except for a couple of names and minor details, it is very likely they are different versions of the same story.  One group heard it from another and inserted their preferred hero to make it their story.  This was even done with yhwh and Ba'al.  Stories about Ba'al kicking the Sea's[1] butt were recycled by proto-hebrews and they just replaced "Ba'al" with "yhwh".  That sort of cross pollination happened all the time.

Now quit being juvenile and admit it.

I don't see either contradiction or even unclearness in this story.

That is because you are more interested in defending your beliefs and not being wrong that you are in intellectual honesty.  Drop the ego.  Learn something.  Admit when you are wrong.  It is liberating and good policy.

 1. their name for the sea god was Sea
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 16, 2011, 06:29:25 PM
Thank you for your lecture. ST.

"Can't prove it doesn't" is the road to ruin. ...snip.....Can't prove it doesn't!  But that does not make any of those ideas true nor does it provide any justification to believe them.
That sounds about right, you "can't prove there is no god", I "can't prove there is no bible contradition",..hey wait! what the hell are we doing here, then?
Quote
This is where we talk about burden of proof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof).  You are making the claim, so it is incumbent upon you to give me a reason to believe you.
Think about it really hard.
who is making the claim? when you say there is bible contradictions(positive claim) vs I say no there isn't(negative claim)

p.s. Intellectually dishonest? what - that?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 16, 2011, 07:40:02 PM
All of these things have been thoroughly refuted by science.
show me your science so I can take it to about 5 billion people on the earth and tell them "sirs! you are wrongs!

Quote
You want to argue that the bible has no contradictions? Fine. So fucking what? Doesn't make its contents true.
You want to argue that there is no god? Fine, So flipping what? (that) Doesn't make any god/gods/God disappear.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: screwtape on September 16, 2011, 08:10:41 PM
Thank you for your lecture. ST.

Not a lecture.  Sound advice, man to man.  And, unfortunately, it appears you are still hung up on being defensive and missed my point.  Did you even read the link to Screwtape's dog?

That sounds about right, you "can't prove there is no god",

Right.  Just because I "can't prove there isn't" does not mean there is any good reason to believe there is.  In fact, the point of Screwtape's Dog is you cannot prove the non-existence of anything.  Which is why "can't prove it doesn't" is such bad policy.  If you want to open that door, any monster can come walking through.  Should we believe in mermaids?  We cannot prove they don't exist.  I mean, we've not searched every gallon of water of every ocean.  And even if we did, well, they could be hiding in a part of the ocean where we weren't.  The ocean is big, ya know.

I "can't prove there is no bible contradition",..hey wait! what the hell are we doing here, then?

I showed the contradiction.  I laid out the evidence and the quotes from the bible.  I provided evidence and an explanation.  You just invented a lame scenario out of thin air and then defied me to prove you wrong.  Pretty shabby.

Think about it really hard.
who is making the claim? when you say there is bible contradictions(positive claim) vs I say no there isn't(negative claim)

Did you not recognize that all those bible quotes and explanations I put around them were (ready for this?) ... evidence?  The claim was made and the evidence provided.  My end of the bargain was fulfilled.  Rather than provide a counter argument, with evidence, you asserted a fantasy and gave no evidence.   Essentially, I got a "nuh-uh!" 

p.s. Intellectually dishonest? what - that?

That would be you, idiot.  I put a lot of effort into responding to you.  In return I get juvenile bullshit.  You can either try harder and do a better job, or I'm done.

Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 16, 2011, 08:46:08 PM
Honestly, I thought you were one of the atheists here that I can actually have serious discussion about religion.

That would be you, idiot.
I am very serious here ST.
this will be the last, I tolerate your insult.

Did you not recognize that all those bible quotes and explanations I put around them were (ready for this?) ... evidence?  The claim was made and the evidence provided.  My end of the bargain was fulfilled. 

Bible verses are not supporting documents.  Bible verses are claims that require supporting documents.
Now, that's the contradiction I am talking about.
other contradictions in the "bible contraction graph"? NAHH.. lame.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Ambassador Pony on September 16, 2011, 09:14:23 PM
I am very serious here ST.
this will be the last, I tolerate your insult.

Or what?  

You'll humiliate yourself in front of strangers more by getting your ass handed to you again?

Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 16, 2011, 10:16:37 PM
Or what?  
ST will speak for me this time
You can either try harder and do a better job, or I'm done.
hi pony! wouldn't it be more appropriate to say hello, first?  my dear old friend ;)
You'll humiliate yourself in front of strangers more by getting your ass handed to you again?
no need to worry about my ass.
not ass humiliated ass your pony ass( three asses wow!)
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: MMcNeely on September 17, 2011, 12:11:54 AM
Deo, you are proving yourself to be the ass.  Multiple times you have been showed contradictions in the Bible and have been asked to explain them. And multiple times you have failed to offer a valid explanation.  Check and mate.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Ambassador Pony on September 17, 2011, 06:15:29 AM
Quote
You can either try harder and do a better job, or I'm done.

Do you promise?

In that case, I think I speak for Screwtape when I say he refuses to try harder, his minimal effort was quite enough.

Bye bye, sweetheart.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: screwtape on September 17, 2011, 11:11:53 AM
Or what?  
ST will speak for me this time

Okay, I'll speak for coram. 

[coram deo]
Or what?  Or coram will be forced to discuss the topics even less and resort to name calling even more.  Eventually it will get to the point where he says something like, "you guys are a bunch of jerks, just like I knew you would be.  fuck y'all. I'm leaving!  Bitches!"  
[/coram deo]

You see coram, by addressing only the points that directly affect your ego, it sends the message that you are all out of arguments for the main point.  It serves as a distraction from the fact that you are out of ideas.  So instead of saying, "Jeeze, Screwtape, you are right, 2Sam and 1 Chron do appear to be at odds,"[1] or "Jeeze Screwtape, you are right about 'can't prove it didn't'," you focus on being called an idiot.  I should not have thrown you that life preserver.  That is probably the least important thing I posted, but you have used it to bail on the actual conversation.  But what did you expect with the kind of reply you gave me? 

You talked about having an intelligent conversation with me.  I'm up for it.  And I feel I have upheld my end of it. However, you have let me down.  I'll tell you what, I will forgive you and play nice.  I won't call you any more names on the condition that you revisit this post (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,16507.msg443608.html#msg443608), look at everything wrong with it and rewrite it intelligently and honestly.  If you don't want to do that, the only other option is to admit you are an idiot.   


 1. you know, the intellectually honest thing to do
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: MMcNeely on September 17, 2011, 12:20:57 PM
If I may, I have a question.   Going back to David's three "ass-kickers" if God knows everything, he would know that this exact conversation would take place.  So, to avoid confusion (as he could have done with all Bible contradictions) couldn't he have said that two of David's ass-kickers died/retired/got replaced/etc. instead of leaving all this ambiguity?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Astreja on September 17, 2011, 01:31:50 PM
show me your science so I can take it to about 5 billion people on the earth and tell them "sirs! you are wrongs!

I think first we have to ensure that those 5 billion people have had the opportunity to get a decent science education, so that they can examine the evidence and draw their own conclusions.

I *did* get a good science education; therefore, it is natural for Me to see the Bible and other "holy books" as primitive nonsense.  However, if you do happen to have a Talking Snake(TM) on hand, please Fed-Ex it to Me at your earliest convenience.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 17, 2011, 02:24:05 PM
I *did* get a good science education; therefore, it is natural for Me to see the Bible and other "holy books" as primitive nonsense.
I had no idea how many scientists believe in god, but I bet quite a lot, of course quite a lot of disbelieving scientists also.

I am not saying "there is a bunch of people believes in god, so you should consider", but are you saying those bunch of scientists that believe in god are less educated than you?
Is that  your point? then why do I still believe in god? whereas my many employees(obviously less educated)disbelieve?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 17, 2011, 02:43:25 PM
If I may, I have a question.   Going back to David's three "ass-kickers" if God knows everything, he would know that this exact conversation would take place.  So, to avoid confusion (as he could have done with all Bible contradictions) couldn't he have said that two of David's ass-kickers died/retired/got replaced/etc. instead of leaving all this ambiguity?
I don't know
Maybe, that is what god wanted?
You see, us believers are NOT god's advocates, he doesn't need one.
We are his followers, servants.
I know certain aspects of god, but certainly not everything.
One thing I know for sure, god-man=creator-creation.
We are not in a position to ask god "hey man why did you make the tree of knowledge of good and evil?"
You can certainly try to ask him, but he won't answer or change anything.

I don't know about you, but do you really know and understand everything about universe, gravity, black hole.....etc. I am NOT asking for theories, theories are theories, not an answer.

If you don't have answers, then how are you trying to understand the ONE that created all those things?

Maybe you should know and understand about everything that god created first, and try to understand "god"? just a suggestion.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: One Above All on September 17, 2011, 02:46:11 PM
I don't know about you, but do you really know and understand everything about universe, gravity, black hole.....etc. I am NOT asking for theories, theories are theories, not an answer.

Implies that one needs to be omniscient to make any assertions about anything and completely ignores the meaning of "theory" in the scientific sense

If you don't have answers, then how are you trying to understand the ONE that created all those things?

Implies that you're omniscient. See above

Maybe you should know and understand about everything that god created first, and try to understand "god"? just a suggestion.

Implies the existence of a god. Not just ANY god but the specific god you worship. See above
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: MMcNeely on September 17, 2011, 03:55:23 PM
You see, us believers are NOT god's advocates, he doesn't need one.

Then why are you here?

I know certain aspects of god, but certainly not everything.

But... didn't you just say: "Maybe you should know and understand about everything that god created first, and try to understand "god"? just a suggestion." Hmmm....


You can certainly try to ask him, but he won't answer

That is the smartest thing I've seen you say yet!
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: plethora on September 17, 2011, 06:04:26 PM
All of these things have been thoroughly refuted by science.
show me your science so I can take it to about 5 billion people on the earth and tell them "sirs! you are wrongs!

[wiki]argumentum ad populum[/wiki] ... a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it; it alleges: "If many believe so, it is so."

Besides, those billions of theists you mention are divided into many religions who are in turn subdivided into thousands of denominations. Each group pointing the finger claiming all of others to be wrong ... so don't give me that shit.

Scientific papers are available to the general public. They refute every claim made by creationists. Anybody can look 'em up. These papers go through very strict peer review processes and take years to be confirmed and published. They are tested and re-tested and tested again before the scientific community comes to a consensus.

Quote
You want to argue that there is no god? Fine, So flipping what? (that) Doesn't make any god/gods/God disappear.

You're right, it doesn't make any gods disappear ... because there were never any gods in the first place.

I go where the evidence leads me. The scientific evidence refutes many of the claims your bible makes. I have yet to see any evidence at all confirming a god exists. Therefore, I will assume there is no god.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Astreja on September 18, 2011, 12:16:37 AM
I am not saying "there is a bunch of people believes in god, so you should consider", but are you saying those bunch of scientists that believe in god are less educated than you?

I have no problems with a scientist who has a mystical bent, who wonders about what was there before the Big Bang, who ponder things like mind vs. brain or the nature of emotions, or who just stares into the night sky and marvels at the beauty of it all.

I have an insurmountable problem with anyone who claims that one particular god exists because some ancient book said so, and who ignores readily-available empirical evidence rather than facing the possibility that their belief might be wrong.  They are not 'scientists' in any meaningful sense of the word.  I consider them deluded, dishonest and a net detriment to the scientific community, and I don't really *care* if they had a better scientific education than Me because they don't seem to be using that education.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: One Above All on September 18, 2011, 01:03:13 AM
I am not saying "there is a bunch of people believes in god, so you should consider", but are you saying those bunch of scientists that believe in god are less educated than you?

[wiki]Argumentum ad verecundiam[/wiki]! I haven't seen one of those in a while
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: screwtape on September 18, 2011, 07:48:45 AM
coram, darling, you gave some personal information already:

I am 37, male, married, 3 kids, self employed truth seeking person.

Would you kindly elaborate a bit on "self employed"?  Exactly what is it you do?  Also, could you please tell us about your education?  What is your highest degree, what major, etc?  It will help to understand what we're dealing with.  It might let us know some mitigating circumstances.

Thanks, love.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Ambassador Pony on September 18, 2011, 09:33:33 AM
Coram, are you the same person as user John 3 16?  

Answer this question before proceeding with your regularly scheduled afronts to human decency and intellectual honesty.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 18, 2011, 06:19:15 PM
Coram, are you the same person as user John 3 16?  

Answer this question before proceeding with your regularly scheduled afronts to human decency and intellectual honesty.
No.  you are wrong.

What is you socioeconomic status pony?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 18, 2011, 10:30:09 PM
coram, darling, you gave some personal information already:

I am 37, male, married, 3 kids, self employed truth seeking person.

Would you kindly elaborate a bit on "self employed"?  Exactly what is it you do?  Also, could you please tell us about your education?  What is your highest degree, what major, etc?  It will help to understand what we're dealing with.  It might let us know some mitigating circumstances.

Thanks, love.
I think it fair that you give  me some of your personal info first. At least like ones I gave you.
So, how old are you? Are you married? any kids? occupation, and what do you persuit?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: coram deo on September 18, 2011, 10:42:36 PM
I am not saying "there is a bunch of people believes in god, so you should consider", but are you saying those bunch of scientists that believe in god are less educated than you?

[wiki]Argumentum ad verecundiam[/wiki]! I haven't seen one of those in a while
you are wrong. read below
I *did* get a good science education; therefore, it is natural for Me to see the Bible and other "holy books" as primitive nonsense.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Astreja on September 18, 2011, 11:47:19 PM
you are wrong {about argumentum ad verecundiam}. read below

I *did* get a good science education; therefore, it is natural for Me to see the Bible and other "holy books" as primitive nonsense.

Uh... Sorry to break this to you, CoramD, but My statement isn't an argument from authority.  It's My personal experience from comparing science and religion.  Things in the real world tend to work whether or not you believe in them.  Things in the religious world seem to depend unduly on the mental state of the believer, and there is no reliable way to determine if 2 different people are having similar religious experiences.

Science tells Me about gravity.  I can experience it Myself by dropping rocks and noticing that they do tend to fall to the ground... Repeatedly.  Better yet, if you were to drop a rock it would probably fall to the ground.

Science tells Me about chemistry.  I have observed that every time I put pennies in a saucer, sprinkle them with table salt and add some white vinegar, it makes the pennies shiny again.  Every blinkin' time I've done it, from age 6 to My present age of 54.  Better yet, if you conducted the same experiment in the same way, I'm reasonably sure your pennies would turn shiny again, too.

However, I have never had a religious experience that I could objectively verify or replicate.  I have never had a verifiable encounter with this god of yours.  And I still don't have My very own Talking Snake™, despite the Bible's assertion that they exist.

I'll stick with science, thankyouverymuch.

Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Ambassador Pony on September 19, 2011, 04:44:00 AM
Coram Deo has now been banned as a sock puppet of John 3 16.  

Direct your questions to the John 3 16 account if it ever merits being unmuted.  
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: plethora on September 19, 2011, 04:48:03 AM
I do love it when christians make asses of themselves like this. Mainly because they end up doing more damage to their cause. I doubt most christians enjoy being represented by such an ass.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: changeling on September 19, 2011, 06:06:32 AM
Coram Deo has now been banned as a sock puppet of John 3 16.  

Direct your questions to the John 3 16 account if it ever merits being unmuted.

Poor Coram Deo, John 3-16 told him not to do that.
Did not. Did to. Did not. Did to.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Hatter23 on September 19, 2011, 07:05:31 AM
Coram Deo has now been banned as a sock puppet of John 3 16.  

Direct your questions to the John 3 16 account if it ever merits being unmuted.

While I find it amusing, how the inhereint dishonest of someone who tries to declare moral superiority...what allowed you to conclude this was a sock puppet?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: curiousgirl on September 19, 2011, 10:52:24 AM
Coram Deo has now been banned as a sock puppet of John 3 16.  

Direct your questions to the John 3 16 account if it ever merits being unmuted.

I should have known. Coram Deo completely ignored my previous post, which was addressed toward him, just so he could be petty with certain members that John 3 16 was usually petty toward.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Ambassador Pony on September 19, 2011, 03:23:20 PM
While I find it amusing, how the inhereint dishonest of someone who tries to declare moral superiority...what allowed you to conclude this was a sock puppet?

Prayed to FSM.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: kin hell on September 19, 2011, 06:59:16 PM
While I find it amusing, how the inhereint dishonest of someone who tries to declare moral superiority...what allowed you to conclude this was a sock puppet?

Prayed to FSM.

Forum Sock Mauler
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: velkyn on September 20, 2011, 11:11:17 AM
Maybe, that is what god wanted?
You see, us believers are NOT god's advocates, he doesn't need one.
Nice save after you've failed to advocate with any ability. 
Quote
We are his followers, servants.
I know certain aspects of god, but certainly not everything.
One thing I know for sure, god-man=creator-creation.
You know this "for sure"?  Then you must have some evidence.  Just like every other theist has claimed.  Let me know how you know it is your god that created us and not Vishnu, or Quezalcoatl or any of the hundreds of creator gods that humanity has claimed one time or other as real.


Quote
We are not in a position to ask god "hey man why did you make the tree of knowledge of good and evil?"
You can certainly try to ask him, but he won't answer or change anything.
Why not? Other christians claim that he does?  Are they lying, CD?  Or are you? Can you show me how you know?

And theories are an answer, the best decription we have a a moment.  You use these theories everyday and only question them when they show your religion is just another myth. 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: kaziglu bey on October 09, 2011, 06:32:07 PM
The most beautiful thing I have seen come from the bible.

Amen
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: MMcNeely on October 09, 2011, 10:13:03 PM
And some of the most grotesque things I've seen have come from the Bible!
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: NonReligious on November 16, 2011, 07:39:20 AM
if there is really "NO GOD" like you stupid people said, why waste your time on proving and trying to get rid of something that don't exist, that is kind of STUPID!

It is not my job to prove that God does not exist, because I'm not the one claiming that there is a God.

It is your responsibility to provide credible, convincing evidence that God exists.

EDIT:

BTW, what a lovely graph. That would make a cool poster!


Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: caveat_imperator on November 17, 2011, 02:00:42 PM
Hey commonsense247, if you ever bother to come back, here's a bit of advice- misrepresenting our views and demanding the closing down of this forum because of those falsehoods isn’t going to work.

You're welcome. :D
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: caveat_imperator on November 17, 2011, 02:16:17 PM
Coram Deo has now been banned as a sock puppet of John 3 16.  

Direct your questions to the John 3 16 account if it ever merits being unmuted.

I figured c.d. was a sockpuppet after he made this comment-
hi pony! wouldn't it be more appropriate to say hello, first?  my dear old friend ;)

How he thought that wouldn't make you suspicious is beyond me. Maybe he had faith that everyone here would be as clueless as him? He did have trouble grasping the concept of evidence. :laugh:
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Iamrational on December 11, 2011, 08:13:35 AM
Hey great news for Jesus freaks.

I counted approx 642 chapters that didn't have contradictions. That to me is something to build on. Now start over. This time do it right.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Astreja on December 12, 2011, 12:12:31 AM
(Please disregard -- Trying not to raise this thread from the dead.)
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: kcrady on December 12, 2011, 06:10:18 AM
Just use COMMON SENSE!
Why trying to get rid of something or someone that don't exist?

Look around the Forum.  Can you find any examples of anyone here proposing ways to get rid of an omnipotent superbeing who created the Cosmos?  No.  Such an entity does not exist,[1] so you will see no efforts being made to get rid of it.  What people here are trying to get rid of is highly-infectious mind-viruses that cause bad effects when they are appealed to as a proper basis on which to operate a society.  "Yahweh" is not a real person; rather, he's a fictional character that significantly influences the behavior of people in the world.  He's like Harry Potter.[2]  Many Christians loathe Harry Potter, to the extent of holding book-burnings (http://www.forbes.com/2006/11/30/book-burnings-potter-tech-media_cz_ds_books06_1201burn.html) and trying to get Harry Potter books banned (http://www.educationworld.com/a_admin/admin/admin157.shtml) from school libraries.[3]  Yet, I think you would be hard-pressed to find a Christian who believes Harry Potter and his world of wizards and magical creatures actually exist.
 1. To the same level of probability we can agree that leprechauns and faeries do not exist.
 2. Well, except that Harry Potter isn't portrayed as a genocidal tyrant who plans to torture billions of people in fire forever.  Even Voldemort doesn't approach that degree of malevolence.
 3. Note that even the most ardent "New Atheists" aren't advocating actual censorship like this.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: kcrady on December 12, 2011, 06:26:12 AM
Maybe all those things happened. couldn't tell who went to the tomb first, but I think it is possible.


I suppose all those things could have happened.  John and Peter were simultaneously there and not there, there were simultaneously many women and yet only one (maybe she was really fat?).  Maybe god just hit the rewind button on his omni-remote control and called a "do-over" multiple times.  All things are possible with god, except of course healing amputees and curing mental health illnesses.

It's Biblical proof of the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics!  Halleluiah! XD  Henceforth, Peter, John, and Mary Magdalene shall be known as Schrodinger's Disciples.  Which might also be a good name for a band...
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: kin hell on December 12, 2011, 06:58:08 AM
Maybe all those things happened. couldn't tell who went to the tomb first, but I think it is possible.


I suppose all those things could have happened.  John and Peter were simultaneously there and not there, there were simultaneously many women and yet only one (maybe she was really fat?).  Maybe god just hit the rewind button on his omni-remote control and called a "do-over" multiple times.  All things are possible with god, except of course healing amputees and curing mental health illnesses.

It's Biblical proof of the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics!  Halleluiah! XD  Henceforth, Peter, John, and Mary Magdalene shall be known as Schrodinger's Disciples.  Which might also be a good name for a band...

........proselytising  Schrodinger's catechism
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: jimiederson on January 31, 2012, 09:58:50 PM
Now a days Goodish is a ethical positive word for human life. Goodish provides guidelines for physical and religious wellness, success and harmony, and makes a daring report about poverty and wealth. GODISM: Releasing the Power to Live is a timely guide to profuse and joyous living. Life is a complex weave of beliefs, issues of morality, commentary on modern life, and holiness
Egoism leads as a guide to living.

Egoism is a philosophy of boundless love and abundant living and encourages you to believe in yourself, and causes you to know that you are the center of the universe and your vital force flows from the Universal Mind, and there is power within you which comes from the Universal Mind. God also seems to be a highly charged word for Atheists.  To them it seems to be equal to Religion. They often point to God as an imaginary friend and then refer to belief in fairies and Santa Claus. God establishes the moral absolute standard and man chooses to accept it or refuse it.

GOD  (http://godofhope.net) must be afar the universe and outside of time, just as we must be beyond the line in order to "take it in all at once. Even if this is so, it is a noteworthy fact that the idea of an all-seeing God has had important, salutary effects in Western thought. For one thing, divine knowledge is one way of describing the impartiality towards which morally responsive people struggle without being able fully to attain it. By trying to see social and moral relations a bit more as an all-seeing God  (http://godofhope.net) might see them, we are encouraged to treat those outside our immediate circle of connection more fairly and to take into better account the lasting penalty of our individual and collective actions.

The top being that is omnipotent and omniscient. Since he is omnipotent, he has the authority to create a stone so big that he himself cannot lift, and at the same time he must be able to lift it. And since he is omniscient, he has the power to know everything, even what you will do tomorrow, thus, you have no free will.

Egoism is a self contradictory idea.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: kaziglu bey on January 31, 2012, 10:02:39 PM
<snip>

Greetings. Perhaps you could go to Introductions and tel us a little about yourself, such as what your religious position is, so perhaps we can understand your post in a better context.

Thanks, and welcome to the discussion!
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: velkyn on February 01, 2012, 09:45:26 AM
gee, seems that eartheconomyspirit has a friend.  More nonsense from theist who are again sure that they have the magic answer on what their god "really" wants: http://godofhope.net/nbelievers/Thomas_Story.html 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: fallenangeldel on February 14, 2012, 01:31:51 PM
bravo bravo  :police:
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Schizoid on February 14, 2012, 10:03:54 PM
OK, I'm not really the village idiot when it comes to computers but I've not been able to download this graph so I can read any of it.  It's a beautiful piece of work with its massive red arched lines and looks pretty, but I'd like to be able to actually read it.

Any suggestions?

TIA
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: ParkingPlaces on February 14, 2012, 10:19:48 PM
Schizoid. You area't doing anything wrong. You just have to poke around a lot more than one would think.

Here is a gigantic .pdf that you can blow up and make readable.

http://www.project-reason.org/bibleContra_big.pdf (http://www.project-reason.org/bibleContra_big.pdf)

God was probably trying to keep it out of our hands  ;D

Enjoy
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Schizoid on February 15, 2012, 10:58:19 AM
Schizoid. You area't doing anything wrong. You just have to poke around a lot more than one would think.

Here is a gigantic .pdf that you can blow up and make readable.

http://www.project-reason.org/bibleContra_big.pdf (http://www.project-reason.org/bibleContra_big.pdf)

God was probably trying to keep it out of our hands  ;D

Enjoy

Thanks, that worked perfectly.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Hatter23 on February 15, 2012, 01:00:45 PM
Now a days Goodish is a ethical positive word for human life.

Egoism is a self contradictory idea.

Got any proof of this New Age gobbledygook?
Title: Lights, Existence, Life
Post by: ann on April 15, 2012, 10:35:01 AM
You have posted the same thing in two different threads.

Do not do this please.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Strawman on October 25, 2012, 06:03:14 AM
A Mr. David Hicks said in the comments:
Quote
The Bible is a massive compiled account. Harping about those details is like denying a hit-and-run because the various accounts (drivers, passengers, bystanders, medics, police and insurers) vary slightly in detail, emphasis and point of view.
Otherwise known as UNRELIABLE EVIDENCE. It concerns me when people fail to see blatant flaws in their own arguments.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Sarevok on January 04, 2013, 12:46:15 AM
Ok, so I saw this and it intrigued me.

I did some searching, and came across the following website with a pod-cast covering the first 13 contradictions:
http://www.theopologetics.com/2011/03/22/episode-35-contradicting-words/

I only listened to the first two, but I think it would be worth those of you who still look at this thread have a listen.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Fiji on January 04, 2013, 02:55:14 AM
^^ Ok, so I suffered through several minutes of the podcast (and I SWEAR the scene of the knights in Holy Grail going "GET ON WITH IT" flashed through my mind several times). I've only listened to the first two and this guy's argumentation was the same for both. Maybe it was translated wrong and we don't know what the author meant. Or to put the second one differently ... If we assume the authors aren't contradicting then they're not contradicting. ... erm, yeah, ok. If I assume the sky is green with orange polka dots, then it's green with orange polka dots.
So, basically, he's ignoring the fundamental problem, which is that, the bible is unclear on some things. Some things in the bible are up for debate. Some things in the bible depend on the interpretation of the reader. It is not an absolute, either in the King James version (which was used for the 'big orange rainbow' he keeps mentioning) or in any other.
Reader A can gleam one meaning from a passage and Reader B can get something different from that same passage. And there's no way[1] to settle who's right and who's wrong. A and B can hurl scripture at each other[2] until hell freezes over[3] and never reach a conclusion.

For completeness sake ... he claims copy error for the first contradiction. Which may or may not be true, but it makes it all the more asenine for anyone to pick up an English bible and wave bout any part of it as if it has any special meaning, after all, you're holding a copy of a copy of a copy of a ... .

As for the translation error card ... this leads to the same problem as above, you're holding a translation of a translation of a translation of a ...
And even if you were to get ahold of the original untranslated text, you're left with the problem that different parts of the bible were written in different languages and in order to compare any of it, you will need at least one translation. And believe me, even for languages as close together as English and Dutch, exact translation is not always possible ... never mind between languages as distent from eachother as ancient Hebrew and ancient Greek. Some concepts quite simply can't be translated.
And if you're a biblical literalist, then you accept the tower of Babel story. Which means that your god intended to leave behind a flawed bible from the get go.
Which, incidentally, is an odd parallel between christianity and islam. There's a holy book, which tells you how to live, but you can never be sure that what you're reading is god/allah's true intent. Only difference is that the quran says this explicitly while the bible only implies it.

Oh and while on the subject of completeness, he also pulls the massively dishonest argument of "Well it's not YOUR bible, so you shouldn't be interpreting it in the first place."
 1. except maybe trial by combat ;)
 2. peculiar way of conducting trial by combat
 3. assuming that they can agree that hell is indeed on fire
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Sarevok on January 06, 2013, 06:34:13 PM
Firstly, let me start of and apologise for the sorta blurb at the start. I myself skipped that part and went straight to he's contradiction part. And if he did say "Well it's not YOUR bible, so you shouldn't be interpreting it in the first place." which I didn't hear, then I sorta regret putting that up.

I agree with what you said at some parts. The transcription especially. In the time, copying scrolls was a MASSIVE deal, and even failure to capitalise a letter meant redoing the entire page. I find it hard to believe that all transcripts were written incorrectly. The part I though held weight, was lack of knowledge of the original writer. Samuel wrote Samuel, and Ezra wrote Chronicles. If Ezra's circle only had knowledge of he's 300 victory, but Samuel had knowledge of the 800 defeat, it may seem like a contradiction but both wrote about the same guy, and why he was great for the greatest achievement they knew about him.

The second contradiction isn't so much a contradiction. Romans reads: "If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.". It is saying "If he was, then he might have something to boast about." It doesn't say he was justified by works
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Fiji on January 07, 2013, 05:08:07 AM
And if he did say "Well it's not YOUR bible, so you shouldn't be interpreting it in the first place." which I didn't hear, then I sorta regret putting that up.

I believe the phrase was "skeptics should just leave it to the theologians"



The second contradiction isn't so much a contradiction. Romans reads: "If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.". It is saying "If he was, then he might have something to boast about." It doesn't say he was justified by works

Yes, Romans 4:2 is the "works don't matter" part of the contradiction ... the other part being James 2:21 which says that works are a requirement.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Sarevok on January 07, 2013, 10:04:34 PM
Then I don't support what he said. Why shouldn't people who don't believe be forbidden from reading the Bible. And if they were, how would they verify anything anyone ever said about it if they don't become a Christian.

I think that verse 22 sheds light on this. "You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did". It is essentially saying we can see Abraham's faith through the works he did. Works don't equal faith, but faith without action/works, isn't really faith
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Fiji on January 08, 2013, 03:16:16 AM
^^ which is still in contradiction with Romans 4:2.
I've come across a number of christians who go "Haha, dumb Muslims, their religion requires works! How silly is that."[1]
And according to Romans 4:2 they're correct in saying so ... the Romans 4:2 god doesn't care about works. But ... James 2:21 says you had better do works or your faith is dead. The James 2:21 god DOES want works. Two different gods in one inerrant holy book.
Technically, due to SPAG[2] and the tendency by people to cherry-pick whatever verse suits them, there are a billion different christian gods and all of them equally (in)valid as the next.

BTW, islam makes just as big a hash of works as christianity.
Quran says, you need to do work.
Quran says, this is so others can check up on you
Quran says, you can't judge another's faith, neither by his works, nor by his fortunes in this life
Quran says, regardsless of outward displays, Allah knows if your faith is genuine in your heart
... what was the point of works again?[3]
 1. Yes, I AM paraphrasing
 2. Self-Projection As God
 3. Meanwhile ... Computer says 'no'
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Sarevok on January 09, 2013, 06:51:50 PM
Best someone who believes Islam answer the second part of your question.

Personally, I admire many Muslims based on their dedication to their faith. If half the people who call themselves "Christian" were as dedicated to their apparent belief as some Muslims are, I don't think Christianity would have such a bad reputation. By this I mean prayer and observing traditions/laws, not the extreme views some take.

The works Paul was talking about in Romans 4 is actually the works of obeying Moses' law, and not things we do as a result of out belief. Romans 3:28 clarifies what works are, which are based on the law. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds(works) of the law." (NKJV Rom3:28). So the works/deeds referenced by the two authors are different. One is the works of the law (aka animal sacrifices), and one is works of faith (helping the needy)
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Fiji on January 10, 2013, 02:08:25 AM
See? That's the SPAG I mentioned the other day. You twist and turn the scripture around until it makes sense inside your skull.[1] Then, you convince yourself that,[2] since it makes sense inside your skull, this is what your god must have meant ... 27 translations and 152 copies ago. That guy on the podcast you originally posted does pretty much the same. He guesses at which errors were made in translation/copying and when he finds one that allows him to explain away the contradiction, that hey, that MUST be what his god intended. It's really no different from Harold Camping's predictions.
He arbitrarily assigned numerical values to words, arbitrarily applied calculations to them, arbitrarily converted the result into a date and arbitrarily picked a biblical passage that he linked to that date. And, yeah, the result of this chain of at utterly random steps MUST have been what his god intended. He guessed right at EVERY turn.

Funny thing is, you don't do this just with your own holy book, you do it with the quran too. You admire those who pray and observe traditions/laws but not those who pray and observe the tradition/law that all jews must be killed[3] ... which the quran says a number of times. So, you admire muslims, based on which verses from their holy book they ignore? ... weird.
 1. Though not necessarily in any one else's
 2. which is easy, since, you ... agree with you!
 3. I'll assume that this is what you meant with "extreme views"
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Sarevok on January 10, 2013, 09:52:47 PM
I admire their dedication to the statutes they are given to worship their god yes. Since most "Christians" can't even make it to church at times like Easter and Christmas, I admire their adherence to their (or parts of) faith.

So because I provide a different interpretation to the one you've taken, I'm twisting it to my own devices, and your view isn't twisted in the slightest? I find that hard to believe.

In the context of chapter 4, like I said, if you go back to the previous chapter, we see what the definition of "works" are in this context. And before you say "That is in a completely different chapter, so you can't make that assumption", chapters weren't in the original text, they have been added for reference and separation sake, thus the context must be taken from earlier in the letter/book. That is exactly there chapter 3 happens to be. Though I would ask that you prove the works he is talking about is religious works (feeding the poor) and not law works (as mentioned earlier in the book), then I may consider the contradiction as having grounds.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Fiji on January 14, 2013, 04:45:04 AM
And this would be something we refer to as "moving the goalposts". Both texts specifically refer to Abraham. Romans says none of his works matter, James says that at least one of his works (the part where Abraham choses the voices in his head over his own son) did matter and that it was in fact a requirement.
Both passages also expressly refer to "works of law", as you put it. The only difference between the two is that the distance between the mention of the law and the mention of the works is a few verses bigger in James. So, if we read the context of Romans, we see that it's one kind of works being talked about and if we ignore the context of James, we could paste a different label on the works and the contradiction is gone.
In any event, the mere fact that we're having this discussion is proof enough that the interpretation of the bible depends on the reader. So ... the bible indeed contains no contradictions, if you make a special effort to avoid seeing contradictions.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Sarevok on January 14, 2013, 06:21:38 PM
Right, and I'm trying to understand what people see as a contradiction in their interpretation, and provide an alternative interpretation for what is read. And doesn't the bible contain contradictions based on the same methodology you suppose? That if you simply read it a certain way, you can make it have contradictions?

This seems more an English discussion then. Where one person's view is wrong, because another person's view is contradictory to the initial view.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: screwtape on January 15, 2013, 10:14:42 AM
^
Not all interpretations are equal. 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Sarevok on January 17, 2013, 08:12:35 PM
That is true. Interpreting the sky is blue "because it looks it" is a much weaker explanation than the sky is blue "due to scattering of light".

I think I may have been portraying myself wrongly here. I don't think it is only faith that saves someone, works are also expected/required. But the works of say animal sacrifices is no longer required, so would be considered a fruitless/dead work.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Fiji on January 18, 2013, 06:46:20 AM
But the works of say animal sacrifices is no longer required, so would be considered a fruitless/dead work.

Says who? Not Jesus ... http://bible.cc/luke/16-17.htm ... Every last bit of 'the law' still applies. Ever eat any shrimp? No heaven for you.
Better start slashing open some goats to appease this decidedly non-pagan god of yours.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Sarevok on January 23, 2013, 09:37:55 PM
Says who? Not Jesus ... http://bible.cc/luke/16-17.htm ... Every last bit of 'the law' still applies. Ever eat any shrimp? No heaven for you.
Better start slashing open some goats to appease this decidedly non-pagan god of yours.

Quote from: Luke:16v17
But that doesn’t mean that the law has lost its force. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the smallest point of God’s law to be overturned
Jesus fulfils what was required of the law. It would be like sacrificing two animals before Jesus came. He is our sacrifice, so sacrificing further doesn't make us any cleaner
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on January 23, 2013, 09:44:45 PM
I think Sarevok enjoys riding on Merry-go-Rounds.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: ParkingPlaces on January 23, 2013, 10:20:28 PM
So let me get this straight. You christians sacrificed sacrificing because of a sacrifice?

I didn't know god had a Department of Redundancy Department.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Fiji on January 24, 2013, 03:43:08 AM
So let me get this straight. You christians sacrificed sacrificing because of a sacrifice?

I didn't know god had a Department of Redundancy Department.

Well, if you look at some of the processions out there ... it certainly seems like they have a Ministry of Silly Walks
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Andy S. on February 26, 2013, 10:51:12 AM
http://www.fastcodesign.com/1662676/infographic-of-the-day-what-the-bible-got-wrong (http://www.fastcodesign.com/1662676/infographic-of-the-day-what-the-bible-got-wrong)

Downloadable graph connecting all the biblical contradictions to their corresponding verses.

Enjoy!

019


Great graph!  Steve Wells is the gentleman who can mainly be credited for this graph.  I went ahead and bought his "Bible".  It is called "The Skeptics Annotated Bible" and it lists all the contradictions, absurdities, and atrocities in the Bible.  He did a great work and would recommend this Bible to any skeptic.  It is definitely worth the $30!
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Just Another Opinion on August 24, 2013, 12:22:12 PM
In the military there is always a chain of command.  Here you have two statements, "Chief of the Three" and "Chief of the Officers".  I cannot rationally conclude that these are the same people since Chief seems to be used in these instances as the one in charge.  So you have the "one in charge" of the Three and the "one in charge" of the Officers.  Now lets make Three = A and Officers = B then we have "one in charge of A" and "one in charge of B".  The fact they have different names makes it more difficult to believe they are the same person.  Jack and Jarrod are similar type names yet are distinctly not the same name.   Josheb-Basshebeth and Jashobeam.  Lets for arguments sake take of the Basshebeth and we are left with  Josheb and Jashobeam.  Under the argument "the names are similar" you are inferring that all name beginning with the same letter(since the second letter is where the first deviation occurs) should be assumed to be the same person until proven otherwise?  Now lets look at the name we removed, Basshebeth, and what this would indicate in our culture.  Let's assume for a second that these are the same name, then what is the point of the added name.  Normally when two people have the same name they are usually identified from each other by their last name or some other form of designation type.  Thus the reason our military uses last names.  Just because two soldiers have the same name does not mean they are the same individual.  From a strict standpoint of fact(the facts you provided) interpretation/logical deduction it does not appear to be a rational conclusion in my opinion. 

I only had little time on my hand to look through the "Biblical contraction graph" but with my limited biblical knowledge, I have yet unable to find any contradictions.
1)How many men did the chief of David's captains kill?
it's two different persons (Josheb Basshebeth, a Tahkemonite and Jashobeam, a Hacmonite)


Quote
2 Samuel 23:8 These are the names of David’s mighty warriors:
   Josheb-Basshebeth, a Tahkemonite, was chief of the Three; he raised his spear against eight hundred men, whom he killed in one encounter. 9 Next to him was Eleazar son of Dodai the Ahohite. As one of the three mighty warriors, he was with David when they taunted the Philistines gathered at Pas Dammim[d] for battle. Then the Israelites retreated, 10 but Eleazar stood his ground and struck down the Philistines till his hand grew tired and froze to the sword. The LORD brought about a great victory that day. The troops returned to Eleazar, but only to strip the dead.

 11 Next to him was Shammah son of Agee the Hararite. When the Philistines banded together at a place where there was a field full of lentils, Israel’s troops fled from them. 12 But Shammah took his stand in the middle of the field. He defended it and struck the Philistines down, and the LORD brought about a great victory.


Quote
1 Chronicles 11:10 These were the chiefs of David’s mighty warriors—they, together with all Israel, gave his kingship strong support to extend it over the whole land, as the LORD had promised— 11 this is the list of David’s mighty warriors:
   Jashobeam, a Hakmonite, was chief of the officers[c]; he raised his spear against three hundred men, whom he killed in one encounter. 12 Next to him was Eleazar son of Dodai the Ahohite, one of the three mighty warriors. 13 He was with David at Pas Dammim when the Philistines gathered there for battle. At a place where there was a field full of barley, the troops fled from the Philistines. 14 But they took their stand in the middle of the field. They defended it and struck the Philistines down, and the LORD brought about a great victory.

Quote

So you want claim it was two different men.  Unfortunately for you, they are talking about the same man.  And they make the claim that the same man slew 800 and in a retelling, slew 300, and also can't get the name or the nationality right.  You see that Eleazar doesn't have that problem and is the same one.  Your bible can't keep itself straight.  how does that work with a book that comes from a suposedly omniscient/omnipotent/omnibenevolent god?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Just Another Opinion on August 24, 2013, 12:43:07 PM
Romans vs James.  Works Faith and Deeds.  Romans says works don't matter to God.  James says faith without deeds(works) is dead.  What we have here are those fun test we all use to take that said if all A's are B's and some B's are C's then are all A's able to be C's.  What I mean is this.  Lets assign Works to A and Deeds to B.  So B isn't what is important to God.  You don't necessarily get A from doing B.  James is saying if you have A and A doesn't produce B in you then you never had A in the first place.  Meaning A's natural course of progression should lead to B.  But B doesn't always lead to A.  So A always leads to B, or there was no A.  And B doesn't always lead to A.  So I again have a hard time finding a contradiction.  I would also like to suggest that by the time we have received the Bible it has been translated through many languages and many generations.  To think that it is word for word accurate is silly.  To believe that it has remained generally intact is much more probable and probably more likely.  I don't mean to infer that the text has changed much, just that the wording has.  For example.  The black cat jumped in the pool.  VS  There was this crazy cat, which was black, and it did the stupidest thing I have ever seen.  It jumped into my pool!  While the wording is different the premise is the same.  So if we are really arguing semantics over words we need to find a few Scholars who speak things like 2000 year old Hebrew.


And if he did say "Well it's not YOUR bible, so you shouldn't be interpreting it in the first place." which I didn't hear, then I sorta regret putting that up.

I believe the phrase was "skeptics should just leave it to the theologians"



The second contradiction isn't so much a contradiction. Romans reads: "If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.". It is saying "If he was, then he might have something to boast about." It doesn't say he was justified by works

Yes, Romans 4:2 is the "works don't matter" part of the contradiction ... the other part being James 2:21 which says that works are a requirement.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: mmmjv on October 06, 2013, 01:16:40 AM
Cain's wife was his sister. Cain, Abel, and Seth weren't their only children. Genesis 5 states that Adam had other sons and daughters, probably quite a few when you consider that at the beginning he was told to be fruitful and multiply and Eve was still having babies at 130 (Genesis 5 states that's how old Adam was when Seth was born). The prohibition against having sex with a sibling didn't come till later with Mosaic law and the genes wouldn't have been a problem because Adam and Eve were just created by God so they would have been genetically pure.

When God said let there be light what we had then was just pure light. Creating the sun later as a source of light would be kind of like how we created the lamp as a source of light even though light certainly existed before the lamp.

When God bought the animals to Adam so he could name them he had already created those animals. Lots of Bible versions are confusing here because they don't include the very important word "had". But some aren't

1750 Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Lord God having formed out of the ground all the beasts of the earth, and all the fowls of the air, brought them to Adam to see what he would call them: for whatsoever Adam called any living creature the same is its name.

1890 Darby Bible
And out of the ground Jehovah Elohim had formed every animal of the field and all fowl of the heavens, and brought [them] to Man, to see what he would call them; and whatever Man called each living soul, that was its name.

1902 Rotherham's Emphasized Bible
Now Yahweh God had formed from the ground every living thing of the field, and every bird of the heavens, which he brought in unto the man, that he might see what he should call it,—and, whatsoever the man should call it—any living soul, that, should be the name thereof.
http://oldebible.com/genesis/2-19.asp#1769-king-james-bible




Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Foxy Freedom on October 06, 2013, 06:12:20 AM
the genes wouldn't have been a problem because Adam and Eve were just created by God so they would have been genetically pure.


Genetic research does not show that. It shows that humans evolved from other animals. It also shows that humans interbred with other types of prehuman. In your own DNA there are pieces of DNA from more than one type of prehuman. Take a DNA test if you don't believe it.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: William on October 06, 2013, 07:16:25 AM
...Eve was still having babies at 130 ...

Any thoughts on what was inhibiting ovarian follicle development and atresia - or what other mechanism would delay menopause to that extent?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on October 06, 2013, 09:55:59 AM
It's funny how future versions of the Bible add filler words to verses, and people stating that it doesn't change anything but it does, it changes the meaning, and there lies the true contradiction to the original verse.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: CheyenneH6877 on November 26, 2013, 07:44:30 AM
The Bible actually doesn't contradict itself, although it may seem like it. It may just be a little harder to understand. I understand that you may want to say that it does contradict itself, but trust me, it doesn't.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Jag on November 26, 2013, 07:53:10 AM
This thread gives you countless examples of bible contradictions. Do you really think you can show up and proclaim that there are none, because you can be trusted and that's the end?

Explain yourself please - explain the contradictions identified so far, and why you are claiming that they are NOT contradictions.

Because I don't trust you.  8)
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Hatter23 on November 26, 2013, 08:07:41 AM
The Bible actually doesn't contradict itself, although it may seem like it. It may just be a little harder to understand. I understand that you may want to say that it does contradict itself, but trust me, it doesn't.

Seem? No, it DOES contradict itself. It contradicts science. It contradict archeology. It contradicts history. It contradicts logic. It contradicts morality. It contradicts reality.

Bats are Birds, Pi is 3, Judas dies two different ways, parable of the good Samaritan versus "Not a Jot or Title of the Law," Noah took one pair of every animal or 7? Different orders or creation.

It is a compilation of mythology. Anyone but an idiot should see this.

Post 3000! Woot!

Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: screwtape on November 26, 2013, 09:32:48 AM
but trust me, it doesn't.

I don't trust you.  Kindly pick an example and elaborate.  If you like, I can pick the example and you can explain how it is not a contradiction.  We will then discuss whether your argument has merits.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: jdawg70 on November 26, 2013, 11:12:12 AM
The Bible actually doesn't contradict itself, although it may seem like it. It may just be a little harder to understand. I understand that you may want to say that it does contradict itself, but trust me, it doesn't.
Comic sans.

If this is not a POE I may s**t myself from shock.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Astreja on November 29, 2013, 01:32:35 PM
The Bible actually doesn't contradict itself, although it may seem like it. It may just be a little harder to understand. I understand that you may want to say that it does contradict itself, but trust me, it doesn't.

Cheyenne, hand over the Magic Decoder Ring and back away slowly.

And please don't use Comic Sans if you want to be taken seriously.  ;)
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on November 29, 2013, 03:43:38 PM
The Bible actually doesn't contradict itself, although it may seem like it. It may just be a little harder to understand. I understand that you may want to say that it does contradict itself, but trust me, it doesn't.

Cheyenne, hand over the Magic Decoder Ring and back away slowly.

And please don't use Comic Sans if you want to be taken seriously.  ;)

Was I not supposed to eat that? I thought it was candy.

My bad.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Astreja on November 30, 2013, 03:47:54 AM
Was I not supposed to eat that? I thought it was candy.

Wot, another one? :o
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on November 30, 2013, 05:01:18 AM
Was I not supposed to eat that? I thought it was candy.

Wot, another one? :o

Wait! they're not all candy? (burp) Ummm....

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 01, 2013, 02:08:37 AM
romans vs James... To easy! Romans is salvation. Salvation is not of works. It is a gift from God. Nothing you do can earn it. In fact you (we) are not even worthy of the gift. James is sanctification. Deeds are what we call the fruit of the spirit or the fruit of true salvation. He is saying show me you are saved by what proof or deeds you have.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 01, 2013, 02:22:33 AM
It's funny how future versions of the Bible add filler words to verses, and people stating that it doesn't change anything but it does, it changes the meaning, and there lies the true contradiction to the original verse.

-Nam

 you say "original verse.." Logically this statement says you have some knowledge about both the "original verse" and the "filler words" That were added? Assuming this is not hear say, as i believe that's against the rules as a mod I would think you would know this. please correct the new guy if I'm misinformed. Anyway, you must have personal knowledge. I can then Logically conclude,  you can and have read koina greek and ancient hebrew? I think it's only fair to let the board know what type of expert we are debating. I may wish to adjust my argument for a person of such caliber.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 01, 2013, 04:27:49 AM
It's funny how future versions of the Bible add filler words to verses, and people stating that it doesn't change anything but it does, it changes the meaning, and there lies the true contradiction to the original verse.

-Nam

 you say "original verse.." Logically this statement says you have some knowledge about both the "original verse" and the "filler words" That were added? Assuming this is not hear say, as i believe that's against the rules as a mod I would think you would know this. please correct the new guy if I'm misinformed. Anyway, you must have personal knowledge. I can then Logically conclude,  you can and have read koina greek and ancient hebrew? I think it's only fair to let the board know what type of expert we are debating. I may wish to adjust my argument for a person of such caliber.

Are you saying you're a moderator, or are you saying I'm a moderator? If the latter, the day they make me a moderator on this website is the day that this website never exists; ever again.

The original text is in another language; before that it was oral, but let's focus on the text: if you go to http://biblegateway.com you will find many versions of the Bible. You will find that many add words (yet source the original), many take words out, and many change words and contend they are synonyms when they clearly are not. Each version is different from the next changing the meaning ever so slightly to either be more literal or just water-down to make it less than what it previous was.

As a side: your comment is condescending and sarcastic. Just to put it out there: I'm an asshole, and one you don't want to fuck with.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Hatter23 on December 01, 2013, 08:59:17 AM
romans vs James... To easy! Romans is salvation. Salvation is not of works. It is a gift from God. Nothing you do can earn it. In fact you (we) are not even worthy of the gift. James is sanctification. Deeds are what we call the fruit of the spirit or the fruit of true salvation. He is saying show me you are saved by what proof or deeds you have.

All interpretations from your brand of magic decoder ring.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: shnozzola on December 01, 2013, 10:40:16 AM
Salvation is not of works. It is a gift from God.  He is saying show me you are saved by what proof or deeds you have.
That is such a canned statement used by a segment of Christian denominations.  Walk up to the front, cry, say you have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior, and go on living your life, secure in the knowledge that you have sincerely realized the important lessons of the bible, and you have nothing to fear, even death, because Jesus was resurrected - part of the long creed you recite every Sunday.

Harbinger, don't be afraid to think more deeply about life than just " salvation is a gift from god."
Think about eternal life in heaven and what that may mean.  Question it.  Think about whether it is the  truth and what that means.  Think about more than surface theology.

   If you make it to heaven (are you sure you will?) do you believe that you will have a consciousness for eternity?
   Do you believe you will experience some type of eternal physical bliss?
   What if a person does good deeds but doubts the existence of god?

 Why would it mean hell for a nonbeliever to  rob a bank ( I guess the non-believer doesn't even have to rob the bank.  :)),  but be forgiven for a believer to rob the same bank?  Just accepting Jesus is all God asks?  Not any god - the god.  Believe me, the more you study what you have been taught, the more odd it will become.  Your definition of god will begin to change.  Good luck, may you learn to accept that, deep down, you really have no idea what the truth is, and the fellow beside you doesn't either.  It is much safer for the world.

..........you can and have read koina greek and ancient hebrew? I think it's only fair to let the board know what type of expert we are debating. I may wish to adjust my argument for a person of such caliber.

Harbinger, how sure are you of your understanding of koina greek and ancient hebrew to question another?  I don't understand it at all.  KJV and Good News for Modern man is about it, and I don't understand that.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: ParkingPlaces on December 01, 2013, 11:33:32 AM
Lucky me. I don't need to dismiss any version of the bible to be an atheist. Christianity is just another primitive religion, and I need not pay any more attention to the specifics of its writings than I do to the specifics of hinduism.

If a religion wants to makes claims of truth, first they have to say something that is believable. First they have to provide words that match reality. So far, no good.

Having seen no sign that christians have any extra access to the truth, I shall continue to dismiss it.

But this stuff is fun to watch. I should change my name to Chauncey.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 01, 2013, 12:36:24 PM
 Are you saying you're a moderator, or are you saying I'm a moderator? If the latter, the day they make me a moderator on this website is the day that this website never exists; ever again.

The original text is in another language; before that it was oral, but let's focus on the text: if you go to http://biblegateway.com you will find many versions of the Bible. You will find that many add words (yet source the original), many take words out, and many change words and contend they are synonyms when they clearly are not. Each version is different from the next changing the meaning ever so slightly to either be more literal or just water-down to make it less than what it previous was.

As a side: your comment is condescending and sarcastic. Just to put it out there: I'm an asshole, and one you don't want to fuck with.

-Nam
[/quote]

I meant for my comment to only draw a logical conclusion. I'm sorry if you found it rude. As for the mod thing. I thought I saw a green dot by your name indicating you as a mod. I was wrong I'm sorry. The reason behind your questioning is one that Christians discuss quite a bit. you say the original as though there is only txt to consider. There are a few textus receptus vs alexandrian txt. one came through rome and the Catholic church the other straight from Antioch. There are also gnostic texts. the argument is which one is the proper original txt and therefore fit for translation. I personally want nothing that came through the catholic church. (before you or anyone else jumps on that one I came from a catholic family) Another thing to consider is still other denominations such as Jahova witness and Mormon that have deliberately translated text to support non-christian doctrine. I can't prove this one, although I can make a case, I also believe Satin could easily have a hand in some of these translations. even a secular person such as you can easily see some of it gets "watered down." This is directly related to libs not wanting to offend anyone. Lets face it, the Gospel of jesus Christ IS offensive. That's another topic though. Personally I try to stick to KJV but I do sometimes read NLT.
As a side note. it's not nice to make threats. seeing that this is the internet I don't know what you could ever make of them anyway. In the future I would ask you to refrain from such vile language and threats as both are against the rules. thank you.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 01, 2013, 01:22:47 PM
shnozzola:
canned statement? I was explaining the dif between Romans discussing salvation and James discussing the fruit of salvation. I guess one could say the reply is "canned" as it is the right answer. I do almost nothing (in my free time) but study the word of God and things related. I have found quite the opposite of what you say to be true. The deeper I go the more truth I see. As for the bank robber. We are promised that Christ will make us a "new creature" and we become a new person. Also God will give us a new heart. Good for me, as I have a witness. My wife has seen this happen to me. (Maybe I should post that in the testimonial section huh?) It's more than believing. I know that I know. The person who has that bit of doubt well, a little levin will levinith the whole loaf. The thing is a person who is truly saved wouldn't have robbed the bank in the first place. The problem here is that there are lots of name only christians out there. These people unfortunately only add fuel to your arguments. I do believe in a literal Heaven and a literal Hell and everything that would suggest. Yes I am Heaven bound. I had an out of body experience once. I was able to save the life of a friend of mine. This was a verbal interaction not a physical one. Life saving all the same though. This was years before I was saved but this showed me without doubt I have a soul (or something) that can operate independent of my body. I think I got all your points... let me know if I missed something.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 01, 2013, 01:31:19 PM
missed one yes I am trying to learn the greek. One day the Hebrew as well. I don't claim to be an expert but I do at least have the desire to learn.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 01, 2013, 01:36:20 PM
I meant for my comment to only draw a logical conclusion.

Christianity doesn't deal in logic.

Quote
I'm sorry if you found it rude.

Quote
As for the mod thing. I thought I saw a green dot by your name indicating you as a mod. I was wrong I'm sorry. The reason behind your questioning is one that Christians discuss quite a bit. you say the original as though there is only txt to consider. There are a few textus receptus vs alexandrian txt. one came through rome and the Catholic church the other straight from Antioch. There are also gnostic texts. the argument is which one is the proper original txt and therefore fit for translation. I personally want nothing that came through the catholic church. (before you or anyone else jumps on that one I came from a catholic family) Another thing to consider is still other denominations such as Jahova witness and Mormon that have deliberately translated text to support non-christian doctrine. I can't prove this one, although I can make a case, I also believe Satin could easily have a hand in some of these translations. even a secular person such as you can easily see some of it gets "watered down." This is directly related to libs not wanting to offend anyone. Lets face it, the Gospel of jesus Christ IS offensive. That's another topic though. Personally I try to stick to KJV but I do sometimes read NLT.

The problem with any text that old is that it's up for too much debate. Meaning: it can't 100% be verified therefore what is written can't be verified on the same level. That's why people believe in things like that with 'faith' rather than absolutes.

Learn to use the quote feature. There's a testing area.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 01, 2013, 01:38:47 PM
shnozzola:
canned statement? I was explaining the dif between Romans discussing salvation and James discussing the fruit of salvation. I guess one could say the reply is "canned" as it is the right answer. I do almost nothing (in my free time) but study the word of God and things related. I have found quite the opposite of what you say to be true. The deeper I go the more truth I see. As for the bank robber. We are promised that Christ will make us a "new creature" and we become a new person. Also God will give us a new heart. Good for me, as I have a witness. My wife has seen this happen to me. (Maybe I should post that in the testimonial section huh?) It's more than believing. I know that I know. The person who has that bit of doubt well, a little levin will levinith the whole loaf. The thing is a person who is truly saved wouldn't have robbed the bank in the first place. The problem here is that there are lots of name only christians out there. These people unfortunately only add fuel to your arguments. I do believe in a literal Heaven and a literal Hell and everything that would suggest. Yes I am Heaven bound. I had an out of body experience once. I was able to save the life of a friend of mine. This was a verbal interaction not a physical one. Life saving all the same though. This was years before I was saved but this showed me without doubt I have a soul (or something) that can operate independent of my body. I think I got all your points... let me know if I missed something.

You say it all right here: it's the "truth" because you believe it is. That doesn't actually mean it is the truth; just means it is to you.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 01, 2013, 04:01:38 PM
like I said I don't just believe. I know that I know. If you were a "knower" then you would understand.  Unfortunately NOTHING I ever say no matter how logical, practical or even provable will convince anyone.  It's not by my words but by His Grace. You, and others, are dead set against something that is spiritual not natural. Until you accept there is something beyond the natural world you see. Start with string theory which scientifically allows for the existence of many many alternate universes. Maybe this can lead you. I would also encourage you to really look at something like Carbon dating. live clams have been dated at millions of years. How about reading something scientific. The young earth theory has nothing to do with God. Only Science. Good place to start. Really there is nothing I can say or do. I will not change your mind. I can't. I'm not even trying to change your mind only answer a few questions from a different view point. Just to let you know, I started out with, most likely, the same world view as some of you reading this. By the Grace of God, truth seeking, and keeping an open mind, I came to where I am now.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Aaron123 on December 01, 2013, 04:44:39 PM
like I said I don't just believe. I know that I know. If you were a "knower" then you would understand.  Unfortunately NOTHING I ever say no matter how logical, practical or even provable will convince anyone.  It's not by my words but by His Grace. You, and others, are dead set against something that is spiritual not natural. Until you accept there is something beyond the natural world you see.

The only reason we're "dead set" against spiritualism is because there is no creditable evidence for it.  Give us creditable evidence, then we'll start singing a different tune.


Quote
Start with string theory which scientifically allows for the existence of many many alternate universes. Maybe this can lead you. I would also encourage you to really look at something like Carbon dating. live clams have been dated at millions of years. How about reading something scientific. The young earth theory has nothing to do with God. Only Science.

Young Earth theory has nothing to do with science.  All the evidence points to the idea that the Earth is billions of years old, not 10,000 (or whatever you think).




Quote
Good place to start. Really there is nothing I can say or do. I will not change your mind. I can't. I'm not even trying to change your mind only answer a few questions from a different view point. Just to let you know, I started out with, most likely, the same world view as some of you reading this. By the Grace of God, truth seeking, and keeping an open mind, I came to where I am now.

Translation: "I have no creditable evidence for my claims, and I know it."
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 01, 2013, 05:10:07 PM
like I said I don't just believe. I know that I know. If you were a "knower" then you would understand.

You know that you know? I know you're an idiot. If you knew what I knew, you'd agree. See how that works? It's nonsense.

Quote
Unfortunately NOTHING I ever say no matter how logical, practical or even provable will convince anyone.  It's not by my words but by His Grace. You, and others, are dead set against something that is spiritual not natural. Until you accept there is something beyond the natural world you see.

All I read was, "blah blah blah".

Quote
Start with string theory which scientifically allows for the existence of many many alternate universes.

What does 'string theory' have to do with 'spiritualisation'?

Quote
Maybe this can lead you. I would also encourage you to really look at something like Carbon dating. live clams have been dated at millions of years. How about reading something scientific.

What does this have to do with spirituality?

Quote
The young earth theory has nothing to do with God. Only Science. Good place to start. Really there is nothing I can say or do. I will not change your mind. I can't. I'm not even trying to change your mind only answer a few questions from a different view point.

Lie. If you didn't want to change our minds you wouldn't be here preaching about your nonsense.

Quote
Just to let you know, I started out with, most likely, the same world view as some of you reading this. By the Grace of God, truth seeking, and keeping an open mind, I came to where I am now.

Wrong. Many of us started out like you.

I'm a former closed-minded Southern Baptist.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: jynnan tonnix on December 01, 2013, 07:24:43 PM
I do almost nothing (in my free time) but study the word of God and things related. I have found quite the opposite of what you say to be true. The deeper I go the more truth I see.

I'm quoting this bit because, honestly, people like you have always perplexed me. And I've known a few.

Is it because that's what you think god wants of you? Because, if that is the case, precious few people would ever get saved, and it seems to me that you would be missing 90% of the enjoyment found in the world created for you.

Is it because you find it so fascinating that you can't tear yourself away? Because then it sounds more like an addiction than worship.

Is it because you are afraid to face life without constantly re-affirming the minutae of what god might want? Because that's just kind of sad, and doesn't sound like the sort of existence a loving creator would want.

Honestly...not even being facetious here...it just doesn't seem like a normal way to live.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: ParkingPlaces on December 01, 2013, 07:56:39 PM
I would also encourage you to really look at something like Carbon dating. live clams have been dated at millions of years. How about reading something scientific. The young earth theory has nothing to do with God. Only Science.

If you're going to rail on about science, make sure you get your facts straight first. Since carbon dating makes absolutely no claims about being able to date things older than about 60,000 years, your statement that someone carbon dated clams at a million means either that a) the person doing the dating didn't know what they were doing b) the type of dating has been misstated or c) you've been lied to.

You should check that out and see where you went wrong.

As long as you're here, may I ask you a question. Regarding this young earth thing. I've asked this of many theists and never gotten an answer. I am always ignored.

If humans and dinosaurs coexisted (I'm assuming you think that to be the case because of your young earth statement), why have we not found human and dinosaur fossils intermixed? All a creation scientist would have to do is go out and find one case of human and dinosaur fossils being mixed together and poof, evolution is out the window. There are plenty of places people can dig legally, especially researchers. Why haven't your people done it? If everything died at once, it should be a cinch.

Added: We know where literally billions of animal fossils are located, still unexcavated. All over the world. We're not talking about anything rare here. Just wanted you to know how simple it should be. And by the way, scientists have pointed out that the biosystem couldn't possibly have supported all the known fossilized critters in a short period of time (a thousand years or so) because there would have been nowhere enough food for all of them. And since it takes specific conditions for the remains to fossilize, most living critters decay rather than fossilize after death. So the fossils we do have represent a very tiny percentage of all the animals that have lived on earth. And like I said, we know where billions of fossils are right now.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 01, 2013, 08:14:28 PM
I do almost nothing (in my free time) but study the word of God and things related. I have found quite the opposite of what you say to be true. The deeper I go the more truth I see.

I'm quoting this bit because, honestly, people like you have always perplexed me. And I've known a few.

Is it because that's what you think god wants of you? Because, if that is the case, precious few people would ever get saved, and it seems to me that you would be missing 90% of the enjoyment found in the world created for you.

Is it because you find it so fascinating that you can't tear yourself away? Because then it sounds more like an addiction than worship.

Is it because you are afraid to face life without constantly re-affirming the minutae of what god might want? Because that's just kind of sad, and doesn't sound like the sort of existence a loving creator would want.

Honestly...not even being facetious here...it just doesn't seem like a normal way to live.

I think he "studies" it so often based on having poor reading comprehension; just read his replies to me.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: wright on December 01, 2013, 08:28:32 PM
The thought of Nam with moderator powers made me shudder and laugh out loud at the same time.

You, and others, are dead set against something that is spiritual not natural. Until you accept there is something beyond the natural world you see.

There is abundant and easily verified evidence for the natural world. Using empirical reasoning to investigate it has led to unprecedented improvements in the human condition.

On the other hand, applying the same criteria to the "spiritual" world leads to no success except for charlatans like the late Sylvia Brown and Benny Hinn. If you want us to accept this "spiritual" thing, present the same caliber of evidence science can produce to support evolution, gravity and germ theory.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 01, 2013, 10:48:33 PM
The thought of Nam with moderator powers made me shudder and laugh out loud at the same time.

You, and others, are dead set against something that is spiritual not natural. Until you accept there is something beyond the natural world you see.

There is abundant and easily verified evidence for the natural world. Using empirical reasoning to investigate it has led to unprecedented improvements in the human condition.

On the other hand, applying the same criteria to the "spiritual" world leads to no success except for charlatans like the late Sylvia Brown and Benny Hinn. If you want us to accept this "spiritual" thing, present the same caliber of evidence science can produce to support evolution, gravity and germ theory.

I believe I said something about string theroy...
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Astreja on December 01, 2013, 10:56:12 PM
I do almost nothing (in my free time) but study the word of God and things related. I have found quite the opposite of what you say to be true. The deeper I go the more truth I see.

...Is it because that's what you think god wants of you? Because, if that is the case, precious few people would ever get saved, and it seems to me that you would be missing 90% of the enjoyment found in the world created for you.

I find it strange as well.  I'd almost call such studying a meta-activity, because it's approaching the world from at least one degree of separation, using scripture as a lens to view reality.

Just as I'd think it a waste to spend 99% of My practice time reading a book on the history of the clarinet and only 1% playing exercises and pieces, I think that engagement with the real world would be a more productive application of belief.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: magicmiles on December 01, 2013, 10:57:56 PM
Harbinger, I'm not a moderator, but could you please use some paragraphs in your posts?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 01, 2013, 11:21:49 PM
I would also encourage you to really look at something like Carbon dating. live clams have been dated at millions of years. How about reading something scientific. The young earth theory has nothing to do with God. Only Science.

If you're going to rail on about science, make sure you get your facts straight first. Since carbon dating makes absolutely no claims about being able to date things older than about 60,000 years, your statement that someone carbon dated clams at a million means either that a) the person doing the dating didn't know what they were doing b) the type of dating has been misstated or c) you've been lied to.

You should check that out and see where you went wrong.

As long as you're here, may I ask you a question. Regarding this young earth thing. I've asked this of many theists and never gotten an answer. I am always ignored.

If humans and dinosaurs coexisted (I'm assuming you think that to be the case because of your young earth statement), why have we not found human and dinosaur fossils intermixed? All a creation scientist would have to do is go out and find one case of human and dinosaur fossils being mixed together and poof, evolution is out the window. There are plenty of places people can dig legally, especially researchers. Why haven't your people done it? If everything died at once, it should be a cinch.

Added: We know where literally billions of animal fossils are located, still unexcavated. All over the world. We're not talking about anything rare here. Just wanted you to know how simple it should be. And by the way, scientists have pointed out that the biosystem couldn't possibly have supported all the known fossilized critters in a short period of time (a thousand years or so) because there would have been nowhere enough food for all of them. And since it takes specific conditions for the remains to fossilize, most living critters decay rather than fossilize after death. So the fossils we do have represent a very tiny percentage of all the animals that have lived on earth. And like I said, we know where billions of fossils are right now.
I'll answer that but first a question of my own. If I give or mention some proof, some scientific theory, or fossil evidence, for this or any other topic, would you look into it? Or are you so secure in your own theology that you wouldn't want to rock the boat? I will promise I don't mind.rocking my boat I will look into anything you all mention. there are rock carvings made of people interacting with dinos. Also, there is one fossil of a human foot print alongside those of a dino... both thought to bet he same age, of course. do you know that one thing that must happen to create a fossil is berial? It must be quick too. This is rather interesting. Dead reptiles sink while dead mammals float. What about the dino bone found with soft tissue still intact? Young earth is a scientific theory. It's based on the same science that carbon dating is based on. elements that decay or increase at a rate we can measure. I guess you would be surprised to learn there are quite a few scientists who are also Christian. So if you are so sure please rock your boat. It's funny you would accuse me of being narrow minded yet not look into what I present. thus showing you are not truly interested in all knowledge.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Jag on December 01, 2013, 11:45:44 PM

I'll answer that but first a question of my own.
These qualifiers rarely end well.....
Quote
Young earth is a scientific theory.
Yep, right about there it starts to deteriorate.....
Quote
It's funny you would accuse me of being narrow minded yet not look into what I present. thus showing you are not truly interested in all knowledge.
And done.

The predictability of these posters lately is really disappointing.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 02, 2013, 12:08:45 AM

I'll answer that but first a question of my own.
These qualifiers rarely end well.....
 
nice that you didn't include the question.
so I assume this is a no you won't look it up?

 meanwhile I'm reading about c-14 and N-14. It's even something to the effect of defending c-14 testing to a creationist. I'm refreshing myself as I was asked. "looking into where I went wrong." I was wrong by the way. the clam was dead no more than a day. yet c-14 gave it 1600 years of age.

 while I'm at it...
 If c-14 can only measure time as far as 60,000 yrs how can you know dinos were millions of years ago?

what about the intact soft dino tissue after millions of years?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Astreja on December 02, 2013, 12:27:50 AM
while I'm at it...
 If c-14 can only measure time as far as 60,000 yrs how can you know dinos were millions of years ago?

Because C-14 is only one form of radiometric dating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating).  Geologists and paleontologists use other isotopes when studying more distant time periods.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: ParkingPlaces on December 02, 2013, 12:40:35 AM
I'll answer that but first a question of my own. If I give or mention some proof, some scientific theory, or fossil evidence, for this or any other topic, would you look into it? Or are you so secure in your own theology that you wouldn't want to rock the boat? I will promise I don't mind.rocking my boat I will look into anything you all mention. there are rock carvings made of people interacting with dinos. Also, there is one fossil of a human foot print alongside those of a dino... both thought to bet he same age, of course. do you know that one thing that must happen to create a fossil is berial? It must be quick too. This is rather interesting. Dead reptiles sink while dead mammals float. What about the dino bone found with soft tissue still intact? Young earth is a scientific theory. It's based on the same science that carbon dating is based on. elements that decay or increase at a rate we can measure. I guess you would be surprised to learn there are quite a few scientists who are also Christian. So if you are so sure please rock your boat. It's funny you would accuse me of being narrow minded yet not look into what I present. thus showing you are not truly interested in all knowledge.

I don't mind at all discussing your side of the story. Do be prepared for me to bring up fraud if fraud is involved, bad science if bad science is involved. For instance, I assume the man track/dinosaur track you're talking about refers to the Paluxy River tracks in Texas. A fairly balanced critique of the findings can be found here: http://ncse.com/cej/2/4/paluxy-man-creationist-piltdown (http://ncse.com/cej/2/4/paluxy-man-creationist-piltdown).

You are free, of course, to side with the possibility that they are real. Most creationists have come to the conclusion that they are not, and of course scientists have concluded that they are not real too. I feel that there is adequate evidence to support the conclusion that they are eroded dinosaur tracks, not human tracks. Their size alone would seem to minimize the possibility that they were human, except you guys have a giant in the bible, and you can use that to point out that of course giants would have larger feet. In any case, one piece of questionable evidence is not adequate to get me to change my mind.

The 8th-14th century Cambodian temple stegosaur is a bit mysterious. But it was carved somewhere around a thousand years ago, long after any flood, so if all the dinosaurs died during the flood, how would one representation of those critters show up 2000 years later? It is one carving, in one place, at the wrong time, and is more likely something fanciful than something real. But to be fair, I will call it one possible bit of evidence that dinosaurs lived longer than scientists think. That would not automatically mean that the earth is only 6,000 years old. It could mean that one species survived millions of years longer than anyone suspected. One carved rock, while possibly interesting, proves nothing concrete. It only means that there is a possibility that we should be more open to dinosaurs living longer than we thought.

The big problem, from the scientific point of view, is that the stegosaurus was one of the oldest dinosaurs, and the only place we've ever found their fossils is in North America. Science says they died out 150 million years ago. A stone carving from a thousand years ago implies that they existed elsewhere during that time period. If the flood was supposed to kill off all the dinosaurs and one type survived, you have as much explaining to do was us.

I'm not quite sure where you got the humans float/dinosaurs sink idea. Not all humans float, water temperature plays a role, and not all dinosaurs were big hunking monsters. Many were dog sized. Seems like they would float. But show me something that convincingly explains why they floated and we didn't and I'll listen. And if you have an explanation as to why all the dinosaurs are always buried in the same order (science says that the stegosaurus lived 150 million years ago, the T. Rex lived 66 million years ago, and you never find a T. Rex buried deeper than a Stegosaurus, for instance), that would be nice.

You should know that a scientist can walk into a newly found fossil field, estimate the date of the rock, and accurately, before the digging starts, tell us what kinds of dinosaurs they will find. They can say with certainty that they will or will not find T. Rex fossils in the rock because of its age. And they have yet to surprise themselves and be wrong.

If your creation scientists can simply go out and find a stegosaurus and t.rex fossil side by side, you win. Have your guys get on it.

The soft tissue thing has been explained to the satisfation of many scientists. There was a controversy even among scientists about whether or not it was real. They have now found that the high iron content of blood cells appears to ward off degradation. This may or may not be the last word on the subject, but it is being accepted as plausible in the scientific world, and since that's the side I'm on, I'll live with it for now.

http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/5107/20131127/iron-preserves-ancient-dinosaur-soft-tissue-fossils.htm (http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/5107/20131127/iron-preserves-ancient-dinosaur-soft-tissue-fossils.htm)

The big problem you have is that we have literally billions of fossils to study, and we find them in specific orders. And we do not find any modern mammals mixed in with the dinosaurs either. So I'm guessing that all mammals float, all dinosaurs sink. (Added: We do find mammals fossilized along side dinosaurs. But they are old, long extinct mammals, not the newbies you insist were on the ark.)

And I guess we should ignore the fact that birds are actually dinosaurs, further evolved. Not all the dinosaurs died off when the asteroid hit. Some were evolving into birds during that time period, and those little chickadees in your back yard are, indeed, tiny little dinosaurs. You could test one by putting in the water and seeing if it sank (just kidding)  ;D.

Anyway, the world of science has found billions of pieces of evidence that point to an old earth. Not only via dinosaurs and plant fossils, but there is also evidence in geology, chemistry, the study of continental drift, plus other sources in biology, along with, for more recent times, the addition of anthropology/archaeology. And of course, the findings of historians who study the oldest times that they can study. None of those researchers can find anything that even hints at a world-wide flood.

Consider these bits of evidence.

Aspen trees grow at a known rate. Aspens, more often than not, grow out of the same root system, and any given clump of aspen trees is likely to be genetically identical (meaning all the trees are coming from the same seed via their vast underground root system). And it has been found that, while the trees themselves live a relatively short time (less than 200 years), there is a colony of aspen that covers 106 acres, and every tree in that colony is genetically identical. Meaning they all came from the same seed. How long ago? Based on what we know about the growth rate of aspen, it is estimated that that colony is 80,000 years old. Which, if I remember right, predates your flood.

Researchers have been drilling ice cores out of the snow fields in Greenland for many years. The can easily see the annual layers in the cores because the top of the now melts in the summer and the summer snow also gets a layer of pollen blown over the ocean from Canada. And these layers pile up, one atop the other, for years and years and years (and they also occasionally find ash from volcanic eruptions, which is cool). How many layers have they found in one deep ice core? At least 110,000 years. But don't worry too much about them. You'll need to be more concerned about the ice corps drilled out in Antarctica, which go back 750,000 years.

One of the layers of volcanic ash they found clearly comes from a volcano that was estimated to have blown its top 57,500 years ago. Where was the ash? Right where it was supposed to be, 57,500 layers deep. (Note: at that depth, the layers are so thin it is impossible to count each one with exact precision, so the exact year is not possible to discern. But the source of the ash was provable, and scientists are comfortable with their date estimates both for the ice core and the actual date of the eruption, which had already been calculated using other means years earlier.)

I know your side feels otherwise on these and other related subjects. And I'm sure you have more evidence to present. If you want to continue this discussion, we should probably start a new thread, because we're drifting off the subject of this one. If you want to do that, let me know.

We are most likely going still going to disagree when the discussion ends, but if we both put forth our various reasons for what we believe or think is true, at least we will understand each other a bit better. And who knows, maybe one of us will be more persuasive than the other and someone will change their mind.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: wright on December 02, 2013, 01:02:11 AM
I believe I said something about string theroy...

Which relates to proof about a "spiritual" world how? String theory is one that attempts to explain aspects of the material, observable world.

I'll answer that but first a question of my own. If I give or mention some proof, some scientific theory, or fossil evidence, for this or any other topic, would you look into it?

Sure; fair is fair. I don't have a lot of hope that you'll bring anything new to our attention, though.


Quote
Or are you so secure in your own theology that you wouldn't want to rock the boat?

You aren't really equating atheism with religious belief, are you? Are you one of those theists that needs to learn the difference between belief in something and the absence of that belief?
 
Quote
I will promise I don't mind.rocking my boat I will look into anything you all mention.

Good to know. That would put you ahead of a lot of theist visitors to this site.

Quote
there are rock carvings made of people interacting with dinos. Also, there is one fossil of a human foot print alongside those of a dino... both thought to bet he same age, of course.

References to these supposed carvings would be appreciated. You do realize that even if the carvings are real, there's no guarantee the figures depicted are dinosaurs? Many pictorial artifacts show abstract or less than realistic images.

As to the supposed human footprints beside dinosaur tracks, I assume you mean this fossil formation:http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy.html (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy.html).

As the article explains, the resemblance to human prints is extremely superficial. Similarities can readily be explained by mud oozing into parts of a dinosaur's print after the foot was lifted, and by the way some dinosaurs placed their feet. The tracks also fail to match known criteria for human feet and stride patterns. And of course the prints and the formation they're a part of can be reliably dated to tens of millions of years before humans existed.


Quote
do you know that one thing that must happen to create a fossil is berial? It must be quick too. This is rather interesting. Dead reptiles sink while dead mammals float.

Which has what to do with anything?

Quote
What about the dino bone found with soft tissue still intact?

Presumably you mean this find:http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC371_1.html (http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC371_1.html). To sum up: the soft tissue was hardly "intact", it only softened as part of the process of cleaning the fossil, it isn't clear if the tissue is part of the original fossil and the age of a fossil isn't determined by how well-preserved it is.

Quote
Young earth is a scientific theory. It's based on the same science that carbon dating is based on. elements that decay or increase at a rate we can measure.

No. Young earth theory is expressly a religious apologetic, attempting to ride on the coattails of science by borrowing selected parts of the latter. In any case, such methods as carbon and radiometric dating, along with discoveries like the continuing expansion of space have thoroughly disproven it to the satisfaction of mainstream science. It is only adhered to by theists desperate to shore up their faith.

Quote
I guess you would be surprised to learn there are quite a few scientists who are also Christian.

Not a surprise at all. Very few of them are also Young Earth Creationists, though.

Quote

So if you are so sure please rock your boat. It's funny you would accuse me of being narrow minded yet not look into what I present. thus showing you are not truly interested in all knowledge.

You have no way of knowing the background of the atheists on this forum before we choose to tell you. So don't make assumptions about what we have or haven't done. Nor are you the first YEC to visit this site; we've heard their apologetics quite a few times.

Lastly, to make your posts more readable, insert line breaks in them.

Like this.

It's courteous and makes it more likely they'll be read all the way through.

Good luck and enjoy your time here.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 02, 2013, 01:08:15 AM
The predictability of these posters lately is really disappointing.

The funny thing is: they all come in this thinking we haven't read the Bible, or any of the articles dealing with the things they say are evidence. Almost every single one of them comes in thinking they already won when in actuality, they already lost.

It baffles me at the sheer stupidity.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 02, 2013, 01:17:12 AM
As I'm reading through this theory and that theory. I realized something. This whole section was supposed to be about "Bible contradiction" what happened to that topic? I'm the new guy did i so easily guide it to another topic... If so it. wasn't what I wanted. maybe this board has been off topic for sometime? I picked this board because I have knowledge to contribute on proper hermanutics. If I were a scientist perhaps I would have picked something else.... just a thought.... Should we continue with science or get back to the original topic? i'm good either way.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: wright on December 02, 2013, 01:21:01 AM
The funny thing is: they all come in this thinking we haven't read the Bible, or any of the articles dealing with the things they say are evidence. Almost every single one of them comes in thinking they already won when in actuality, they already lost.

It baffles me at the sheer stupidity.

-Nam

They don't get out of their bubbles much. One advantage I think most atheists have is that we've thought a lot about religious belief, even those of us who weren't theists originally. Since we're still a minority, we're constantly confronted with religion, at least in places like the US. This leads to us getting pretty familiar with at least the majority faiths of our home region and their apologetic arguments.

By contrast, a lot of theists exist in communities of like-minded people and often don't hear many dissenting points of view. So they find coming to terms with atheism difficult ("You must believe in something! It's impossible to believe in nothing!") and are genuinely baffled why we don't find things like Pascal's Wager unanswerable.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 02, 2013, 01:22:22 AM
As I'm reading through this theory and that theory. I realized something. This whole section was supposed to be about "Bible contradiction" what happened to that topic? I'm the new guy did i so easily guide it to another topic... If so it. wasn't what I wanted. maybe this board has been off topic for sometime? I picked this board because I have knowledge to contribute on proper hermanutics. If I were a scientist perhaps I would have picked something else.... just a thought.... Should we continue with science or get back to the original topic? i'm good either way.

Topics, like at other message boards, tend to go off in other directions--related, and sometimes not related to the original topic post.

However, everyone responding to you have been responding to what you have stated in your comments. So, if you feel the topic has gone a different direction, blame yourself.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 02, 2013, 01:24:44 AM
The funny thing is: they all come in this thinking we haven't read the Bible, or any of the articles dealing with the things they say are evidence. Almost every single one of them comes in thinking they already won when in actuality, they already lost.

It baffles me at the sheer stupidity.

-Nam

They don't get out of their bubbles much. One advantage I think most atheists have is that we've thought a lot about religious belief, even those of us who weren't theists originally. Since we're still a minority, we're constantly confronted with religion, at least in places like the US. This leads to us getting pretty familiar with at least the majority faiths of our home region and their apologetic arguments.

By contrast, a lot of theists exist in communities of like-minded people and often don't hear many dissenting points of view. So they find coming to terms with atheism difficult ("You must believe in something! It's impossible to believe in nothing!") and are genuinely baffled why we don't find things like Pascal's Wager unanswerable.

I get that but it still baffles me at the stupidity. I mean, do they think we twiddle our thumbs here, or something?

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: wright on December 02, 2013, 01:27:27 AM
As I'm reading through this theory and that theory. I realized something. This whole section was supposed to be about "Bible contradiction" what happened to that topic? I'm the new guy did i so easily guide it to another topic... If so it. wasn't what I wanted. maybe this board has been off topic for sometime? I picked this board because I have knowledge to contribute on proper hermanutics. If I were a scientist perhaps I would have picked something else.... just a thought.... Should we continue with science or get back to the original topic? i'm good either way.

We have gotten a bit off topic. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though we try to minimize it.

I could start a "Dinosaurs and a Young Earth" thread on the Evolution board, if you like.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 02, 2013, 01:28:51 AM
The predictability of these posters lately is really disappointing.

The funny thing is: they all come in this thinking we haven't read the Bible, or any of the articles dealing with the things they say are evidence. Almost every single one of them comes in thinking they already won when in actuality, they already lost.

It baffles me at the sheer stupidity.

-Nam

disagree... I assume in fact you have at least read some, perhaps most. Even perhaps all of it. However, I do assume that it was read with the wrong motives, at least by most of "your people."

 At any rate for either of us to assume we bring something "new" to a 2000 year old debate... well, wouldn't that be haughty of us?

As I said before if minds will be changed it's not me that will do it. That power, glory, and honor belongs to God alone!
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: wright on December 02, 2013, 01:40:30 AM
disagree... I assume in fact you have at least read some, perhaps most. Even perhaps all of it. However, I do assume that it was read with the wrong motives, at least by most of "your people."

harbinger... you really need to be careful about making assumptions. It's not polite and rarely accurate. A good many atheists here can tell you that reading the Bible while they were still theists helped move them towards atheism.

Quote
At any rate for either of us to assume we bring something "new" to a 2000 year old debate... well, wouldn't that be haughty of us?

A valid point. For my part, I don't flatter myself I'm swaying anyone towards atheism by posting here. I participate in the atheist community here and other places to raise atheism's visibility a bit, educate myself and air concerns with like-minded people.

Quote
As I said before if minds will be changed it's not me that will do it. That power, glory, and honor belongs to God alone!

Please don't preach like that here. It's rude and expressly against the site rules.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 02, 2013, 01:41:05 AM
disagree... I assume in fact you have at least read some, perhaps most. Even perhaps all of it. However, I do assume that it was read with the wrong motives, at least by most of "your people."

"wrong motives"?

What was the 'motive'?

"your people"?

Bigot much?

Quote
At any rate for either of us to assume we bring something "new" to a 2000 year old debate... well, wouldn't that be haughty of us?

I never pretended I knew everything, you did. You came in thinking you knew everything about us--you don't. You came in with the assumptions, not us.

Quote
As I said before if minds will be changed it's not me that will do it. That power, glory, and honor belongs to God alone!

Then why are you here? To preach to us? For one so bent on rules being followed, that is against the rules. You have to back up what you say, you haven't. All you've said is, "Well, I could provide evidence but you all are so close-minded, it'd be a waste because you won't listen." -- Paraphrasing, of course.

We get people like you here all the time. You are here one second, then you're gone. You preach, then leave and feel as if you've won a victory.

You've won nothing. If you're going to state things as fact,then provide the evidence or go away because you're wasting our time.

You came in with a superior attitude, and you're fucking with the wrong people. Despite what you think of me right now, this is the nice me. Keep pushing, and you'll find out why I have "Watched" under my avatar; it's not from being a nice guy.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 02, 2013, 01:42:15 AM
They don't get out of their bubbles much. One advantage I think most atheists have is that we've thought a lot about religious belief, even those of us who weren't theists originally. Since we're still a minority, we're constantly confronted with religion, at least in places like the US. This leads to us getting pretty familiar with at least the majority faiths of our home region and their apologetic arguments.

By contrast, a lot of theists exist in communities of like-minded people and often don't hear many dissenting points of view. So they find coming to terms with atheism difficult ("You must believe in something! It's impossible to believe in nothing!") and are genuinely baffled why we don't find things like Pascal's Wager unanswerable.
[/quote]

as I said before I study All religions. even those far flung, I'll never know one of those people ones. I like to get out of my bubble. obviously I even seek out "dissenting points of view" I didn't get to where I am today with no deep thought and no investigation. I, for one, will never fit into any mold you have shown yet. I'm not who or what you all think I am.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 02, 2013, 01:46:32 AM
LEARN TO USE THE DAMN QUOTE FEATURE!

I have already told you to use the "testing area" to properly use the quoting function. Copy/pasting people comments without attribution makes it plagiarism--another rule.

Stop trying to discuss things here until you can properly discuss things here!

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: wright on December 02, 2013, 01:48:10 AM
as I said before I study All religions. even those far flung, I'll never know one of those people ones. I like to get out of my bubble. obviously I even seek out "dissenting points of view" I didn't get to where I am today with no deep thought and no investigation. I, for one, will never fit into any mold you have shown yet. I'm not who or what you all think I am.

And I am rightfully corrected for making assumptions about you. FWIW, my apologies for lumping you in with other past theists here.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 02, 2013, 02:07:23 AM
Quote
"wrong motives"?

What was the 'motive'?

"your people"?

Bigot much?

sorry I stole the "your people" it's been said to me many times.  I was told something like "get your people on that." sorry I didn't know it would ruffle feathers.

Quote
At any rate for either of us to assume we bring something "new" to a 2000 year old debate... well, wouldn't that be haughty of us?

I never pretended I knew everything, you did. You came in thinking you knew everything about us--you don't. You came in with the assumptions, not us.

If you would kindly look over the past few posts you and others have been discussing what mold I fit into with "my people" you even do it now. I never stated anything like that I only corrected your assumption of me.

Quote
As I said before if minds will be changed it's not me that will do it. That power, glory, and honor belongs to God alone!

Then why are you here? To preach to us? For one so bent on rules being followed, that is against the rules. You have to back up what you say, you haven't. All you've said is, "Well, I could provide evidence but you all are so close-minded, it'd be a waste because you won't listen." -- Paraphrasing, of course.

no.. preaching by the rules I have yet to do. I try not to. I challenged you all to look into what I provide. as I have done with what you provide. I may have tried to use pride against you. that I can admit. The question is did you do it? Or am I alone in double checking materials and ideas?

We get people like you here all the time. You are here one second, then you're gone. You preach, then leave and feel as if you've won a victory.

as I say again there will be no "victory won" At least not one I would take credit for.

You've won nothing. If you're going to state things as fact,then provide the evidence or go away because you're wasting our time.

I have stated very little as fact. The only facts I have stated were from my own life. unless you count Romans vs James. Can you kindly show me these unsupported "facts" please?

You came in with a superior attitude, and you're fucking with the wrong people. Despite what you think of me right now, this is the nice me. Keep pushing, and you'll find out why I have "Watched" under my avatar; it's not from being a nice guy.

-Nam

Sorry I'm  educated. Even well studied. I don't mean to present myself in any other way. again... this is only the internet. what could come of your childish threats. I suppose you could force me to read more of your vulgarity. I live in america though so not much of a threat there. Of course I could simply not read your replies as well. maybe report me? I'm unaware of a rule I have broken up to this point.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 02, 2013, 02:13:58 AM
quote feature:
I bet it does drive you crazy. It drives me crazy too I'm trying to get better. I just need practice.  keep forgetting to insert the (Quote) thing FYI- I'm on my "phone" it works a bit different for me than for those on a pc of any type.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 02, 2013, 02:15:37 AM
quote feature:
I bet it does drive you crazy. It drives me crazy too I'm trying to get better. I just need practice.  keep forgetting to insert the (Quote) thing FYI- I'm on my "phone" it works a bit different for me than for those on a pc of any type.

I've been on my phone for 2+ years. Stop making excuses. There's a testing area. Go to it, and practice. That's what it's there for.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 02, 2013, 02:23:41 AM
[

Sorry I'm  educated. Even well studied. I don't mean to present myself in any other way. again... this is only the internet. what could come of your childish threats. I suppose you could force me to read more of your vulgarity. I live in america though so not much of a threat there. Of course I could simply not read your replies as well. maybe report me? I'm unaware of a rule I have broken up to this point.

What does being "educated" have to do with anything? If you were "educated", you'd first know to come in with evidence, know how to properly work the forum, not pressume you already know how we are going to respond, not presume that we have never read anything of what you say is evidence, or presume that you are superior to us because of all that.

So far my impression of you is one of a high ego, condescending, and a bigot who when asked to provide evidence for the things they say instead says we're too close-minded to even view it.

And yes I can be childish but it can be effective to the right kind of people, such as yourself.

So, are you actually going to answer anyone's questions and rebuttals or are you just going to continue to ignore them?

You're "educated", after all.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 02, 2013, 02:45:00 AM
So, are you actually going to answer anyone's questions and rebuttals or are you just going to continue to ignore them?

-Nam

what questions and rebuttals have I left un addressed? The only one I saw was attributing anything to God, such as changed minds is preaching. I was unaware of this. I'll try to refrain in the future.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 02, 2013, 02:49:49 AM
I've decided that you're a liar when you said you were "educated" because I know 5 year olds who can work a quote function. Until you do, there's no point in discussing anything with you because you're obviously an idiot.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Fiji on December 02, 2013, 03:25:19 AM
meanwhile I'm reading about c-14 and N-14. It's even something to the effect of defending c-14 testing to a creationist. I'm refreshing myself as I was asked. "looking into where I went wrong." I was wrong by the way. the clam was dead no more than a day. yet c-14 gave it 1600 years of age.

Has this been addressed yet?
If not, this is called the reservoir effect.
Plants are excelent for carbon dating purposes, as they get the carbon their bodies are made off straight from the air, with the well know ratio of regular C vs C isotopes. Herbivores are still pretty good, as they get their carbon from the plants with only a small delay. Carnivores (and aspecially carrion feeders) are quite bad, as their C might have been going around and around for decades before ending up in their bodies.
The absolute worst animals to carbondate are those that can feed off of dead plant material. Like slugs that eat turf. The plants making up the turf died centuries or even millennia before. So, what age will you get from these slugs? The age of the material they eat. And so, yes, this animal will read centuries or millennia older than it actually is.
This is a known problem and scientists know to watch out for it.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: ParkingPlaces on December 02, 2013, 11:49:34 PM
Drats. I was hoping that Harbinger wasn't one of those theists that would roll over and pay dead when confronted with information.

I'm so naïve.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 02, 2013, 11:51:13 PM
Drats. I was hoping that Harbinger wasn't one of those theists that would roll over and pay dead when confronted with information.

I'm so naïve.

(pats head) It's okay. There, there.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: ParkingPlaces on December 03, 2013, 12:38:04 AM
Drats. I was hoping that Harbinger wasn't one of those theists that would roll over and pay dead when confronted with information.

I'm so naïve.

(pats head) It's okay. There, there.

-Nam

Why am I not surprised that Nam is the most sensitive person here?

 &)
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on December 03, 2013, 12:45:24 AM
Drats. I was hoping that Harbinger wasn't one of those theists that would roll over and pay dead when confronted with information.

I'm so naïve.

(pats head) It's okay. There, there.

-Nam

Why am I not surprised that Nam is the most sensitive person here?

 &)

Which is ironic since I'm indifferent to...well, almost everything and everyone.

;)

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: caveat_imperator on December 03, 2013, 05:38:26 PM
Sorry I'm  educated. Even well studied.

If you were "educated", you'd first know to come in with evidence...

This one thing is compelling evidence that harbinger is neither educated nor "well studied".
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Hatter23 on December 03, 2013, 11:44:10 PM

Sorry I'm  educated. Even well studied.

Neither of which preclude "delusional"

Okay Mr Educated and well studied;

If you have evidence, credible objective evidence present it.

This is my three part challange:


(1)Define God. Do not use weasel words or circular definitions.
(2)Prove that that definition is not a logical paradox
(3)Show proof that differs from the other ten thousand dieties man
has worshipped, again without committing a logical error

Until you do those three things....your worship of that deity is the intellectual equivalent a gibbering tribal primitive bowing before their god, UGABUGA.

Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 10, 2013, 10:07:28 AM
Drats. I was hoping that Harbinger wasn't one of those theists that would roll over and pay dead when confronted with information.

I'm so naïve.

Who said I'm done? There are many interesting threads on this site. Forgive me if I become preoccupied with another topic.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 10, 2013, 11:18:07 AM

Sorry I'm  educated. Even well studied.

Neither of which preclude "delusional"

Okay Mr Educated and well studied;

If you have evidence, credible objective evidence present it.

This is my three part challange:


(1)Define God. Do not use weasel words or circular definitions.
(2)Prove that that definition is not a logical paradox
(3)Show proof that differs from the other ten thousand dieties man
has worshipped, again without committing a logical error

Until you do those three things....your worship of that deity is the intellectual equivalent a gibbering tribal primitive bowing before their god, UGABUGA.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 10, 2013, 11:20:47 AM

Sorry I'm  educated. Even well studied.

Neither of which preclude "delusional"

Okay Mr Educated and well studied;

If you have evidence, credible objective evidence present it.

This is my three part challange:


(1)Define God. Do not use weasel words or circular definitions.
(2)Prove that that definition is not a logical paradox
(3)Show proof that differs from the other ten thousand dieties man
has worshipped, again without committing a logical error

Until you do those three things....your worship of that deity is the intellectual equivalent a gibbering tribal primitive bowing before their god, UGABUGA.

Weasel words? As that may denote opinion, could you define or provide example of "weasel words" please?

Circular reasoning. The date of these rocks is x BECAUSE of the type of fossils in them. Also the date of the fossils is X BECAUSE of the type of rock they are in. you can't use something with an undetermined age to determine the age of the other item with the same undetermined age quality. Yet, it happens.
Why is this fine for geology, but not God?

The following is my opinion. I could easily be wrong. However, I feel generally speaking, I'm dead on. I don't want to offend anyone. I'm just saying it the I see it.

I think I could answer your questions within the established parameters. However, I'm rather convinced that you wouldn't read anything I offered. I don't think you would be willing to commit the time or energy to an honest religious study. I also feel that you wouldn't be willing to bear through study of those other "thousands of deities man has worshiped" in order to disprove them as man made. Of course to get there we have to admit certain things about man. No, not that we are sinners, but basic  Physcological motivations. I don't think you would be willing to even start with the most basic question. If there is a God would He want us to know Him? If you are truly set on there is no God then why would you ask this question to start with. You claiming to be wise have made yourselves fools by closing your mind to the supernatural. I may even be willing to conclude that you don't even want the answers to these questions. You only ask them because you think the answer is impossible. You expect i can offer nothing in response. Therefore as far as your mindset is concerned these are rhetorical  questions in nature.

If I am wrong and your inquiry is genuine,and you are willing to study. To give time and energy. Send me a personal message. We could start today. This goes for any of you who may read this.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Hatter23 on December 11, 2013, 09:08:23 AM

Sorry I'm  educated. Even well studied.

Neither of which preclude "delusional"

Okay Mr Educated and well studied;

If you have evidence, credible objective evidence present it.

This is my three part challange:


(1)Define God. Do not use weasel words or circular definitions.
(2)Prove that that definition is not a logical paradox
(3)Show proof that differs from the other ten thousand dieties man
has worshipped, again without committing a logical error

Until you do those three things....your worship of that deity is the intellectual equivalent a gibbering tribal primitive bowing before their god, UGABUGA.

Weasel words? As that may denote opinion, could you define or provide example of "weasel words" please?

Circular reasoning. The date of these rocks is x BECAUSE of the type of fossils in them. Also the date of the fossils is X BECAUSE of the type of rock they are in. you can't use something with an undetermined age to determine the age of the other item with the same undetermined age quality. Yet, it happens.
Why is this fine for geology, but not God?

The following is my opinion. I could easily be wrong. However, I feel generally speaking, I'm dead on. I don't want to offend anyone. I'm just saying it the I see it.

I think I could answer your questions within the established parameters. However, I'm rather convinced that you wouldn't read anything I offered. I don't think you would be willing to commit the time or energy to an honest religious study. I also feel that you wouldn't be willing to bear through study of those other "thousands of deities man has worshiped" in order to disprove them as man made. Of course to get there we have to admit certain things about man. No, not that we are sinners, but basic  Physcological motivations. I don't think you would be willing to even start with the most basic question. If there is a God would He want us to know Him? If you are truly set on there is no God then why would you ask this question to start with. You claiming to be wise have made yourselves fools by closing your mind to the supernatural. I may even be willing to conclude that you don't even want the answers to these questions. You only ask them because you think the answer is impossible. You expect i can offer nothing in response. Therefore as far as your mindset is concerned these are rhetorical  questions in nature.

If I am wrong and your inquiry is genuine,and you are willing to study. To give time and energy. Send me a personal message. We could start today. This goes for any of you who may read this.

Weasel words; God is the Universe, Everything is God...basically playing equivocation games.

So wrong about dating being circular. Strata dates are established through chemical means, not guesswork.

"I don't think you would be willing to commit the time or energy to an honest religious study." So are you willing to commit time and energy to HONEST astrology study? Alien abduction study?

Honest does not equal "agree with you."

I see yet again another theist pretending about answering the challange, but unsurprisingly avoiding it.

I have a position, yes. I have other positions in my life and people have shown me I am wrong, and I changed that position. If you are willing to do so, do so HERE in the open. If you can't convince me, perhaps there is someone else.

Why I expect nothing in response is that I have used variations of this for at leat 15 years, and every theist that pretends to answer it is as evasive as you are.

The point is simple, I contend that your God is just as man made as all others, since we both agree upon the premise that man can create gods. Show me I am wrong, or concede you are wrong.











Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Jag on December 11, 2013, 10:07:42 AM
The following is my opinion. I could easily be wrong. However, I feel generally speaking, I'm dead on. I don't want to offend anyone. I'm just saying it the I see it.

I think I could answer your questions within the established parameters. However, I'm rather convinced that you wouldn't read anything I offered. I don't think you would be willing to commit the time or energy to an honest religious study. I also feel that you wouldn't be willing to bear through study of those other "thousands of deities man has worshiped" in order to disprove them as man made. Of course to get there we have to admit certain things about man. No, not that we are sinners, but basic  Physcological motivations. I don't think you would be willing to even start with the most basic question. If there is a God would He want us to know Him? If you are truly set on there is no God then why would you ask this question to start with. You claiming to be wise have made yourselves fools by closing your mind to the supernatural. I may even be willing to conclude that you don't even want the answers to these questions. You only ask them because you think the answer is impossible. You expect i can offer nothing in response. Therefore as far as your mindset is concerned these are rhetorical  questions in nature.

If I am wrong and your inquiry is genuine,and you are willing to study. To give time and energy. Send me a personal message. We could start today. This goes for any of you who may read this.
KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE - you are being unbelievably presumptuous and arrogant. That's all before we get to how completely wrong you are too.

And you didn't answer Hatter's question.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: jdawg70 on December 11, 2013, 10:31:10 AM
I don't think you would be willing to even start with the most basic question. If there is a God would He want us to know Him?
How is that the most basic question?  There is an even more fundamental question than that - does god exist?

Quote
If you are truly set on there is no God then why would you ask this question to start with.
No, we start with the question "does god exist?", because staring with "if there is a god would he want us to know him" is nothing but a storytelling exercise until you answer the more fundamental question of "does god exist?"
Quote
You claiming to be wise have made yourselves fools by closing your mind to the supernatural.
I may very well have closed my mind to the supernatural.  Define supernatural and we'll go from there.

Quote
I may even be willing to conclude that you don't even want the answers to these questions. You only ask them because you think the answer is impossible. You expect i can offer nothing in response. Therefore as far as your mindset is concerned these are rhetorical  questions in nature.
As per Jag, this is pretty damn presumptuous and haughty.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Astreja on December 11, 2013, 11:09:51 AM
I think I could answer your questions within the established parameters. However, I'm rather convinced that you wouldn't read anything I offered. I don't think you would be willing to commit the time or energy to an honest religious study. I also feel that you wouldn't be willing to bear through study of those other "thousands of deities man has worshiped" in order to disprove them as man made.

Tell you what, Harbinger:  I think you should resolve the problem of "honest religious study" by going up against Islam, Hinduism and all other theistic systems first, and determine among yourselves whose beliefs most closely approximate The Truth™.

We'll take on the winner.  If there is a winner, that is.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 17, 2013, 12:01:52 AM

Sorry I'm  educated. Even well studied.

Neither of which preclude "delusional"

Okay Mr Educated and well studied;

If you have evidence, credible objective evidence present it.

This is my three part challange:


(1)Define God. Do not use weasel words or circular definitions.
(2)Prove that that definition is not a logical paradox
(3)Show proof that differs from the other ten thousand dieties man
has worshipped, again without committing a logical error

Until you do those three things....your worship of that deity is the intellectual equivalent a gibbering tribal primitive bowing before their god, UGABUGA.

Weasel words? As that may denote opinion, could you define or provide example of "weasel words" please?

Circular reasoning. The date of these rocks is x BECAUSE of the type of fossils in them. Also the date of the fossils is X BECAUSE of the type of rock they are in. you can't use something with an undetermined age to determine the age of the other item with the same undetermined age quality. Yet, it happens.
Why is this fine for geology, but not God?

The following is my opinion. I could easily be wrong. However, I feel generally speaking, I'm dead on. I don't want to offend anyone. I'm just saying it the I see it.

I think I could answer your questions within the established parameters. However, I'm rather convinced that you wouldn't read anything I offered. I don't think you would be willing to commit the time or energy to an honest religious study. I also feel that you wouldn't be willing to bear through study of those other "thousands of deities man has worshiped" in order to disprove them as man made. Of course to get there we have to admit certain things about man. No, not that we are sinners, but basic  Physcological motivations. I don't think you would be willing to even start with the most basic question. If there is a God would He want us to know Him? If you are truly set on there is no God then why would you ask this question to start with. You claiming to be wise have made yourselves fools by closing your mind to the supernatural. I may even be willing to conclude that you don't even want the answers to these questions. You only ask them because you think the answer is impossible. You expect i can offer nothing in response. Therefore as far as your mindset is concerned these are rhetorical  questions in nature.

If I am wrong and your inquiry is genuine,and you are willing to study. To give time and energy. Send me a personal message. We could start today. This goes for any of you who may read this.

Weasel words; God is the Universe, Everything is God...basically playing equivocation games.

So wrong about dating being circular. Strata dates are established through chemical means, not guesswork.

"I don't think you would be willing to commit the time or energy to an honest religious study." So are you willing to commit time and energy to HONEST astrology study? Alien abduction study?

Honest does not equal "agree with you."

I see yet again another theist pretending about answering the challange, but unsurprisingly avoiding it.

I have a position, yes. I have other positions in my life and people have shown me I am wrong, and I changed that position. If you are willing to do so, do so HERE in the open. If you can't convince me, perhaps there is someone else.

Why I expect nothing in response is that I have used variations of this for at leat 15 years, and every theist that pretends to answer it is as evasive as you are.

The point is simple, I contend that your God is just as man made as all others, since we both agree upon the premise that man can create gods. Show me I am wrong, or concede you are wrong.

There was a reason I set it the way i did. It has to do with a strong religious belief of mine. surprisingly I did get one response. Not surprisingly it wasn't you... or anyone else that responded since This posting.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: ParkingPlaces on December 17, 2013, 12:44:17 AM
Circular reasoning. The date of these rocks is x BECAUSE of the type of fossils in them. Also the date of the fossils is X BECAUSE of the type of rock they are in. you can't use something with an undetermined age to determine the age of the other item with the same undetermined age quality. Yet, it happens.
Why is this fine for geology, but not God?

Just for the record, harbinger, this is a christian myth, not the reality. Rocks are dated radiometrically, using the known decay rates of various elements. I know you don't like this, and want to ask questions like "how do we know the rate has stayed steady" and stuff, but as another member pointed out recently, if we didn't have a good handle on radiation and decay rates, our power plants would be blowing up unexpectedly on a pretty regular basis.

But you guys go on with your myths, which is your strong suit anyway. You go on telling yourselves that we are using circular reasoning, because it is apparently really important for you to impugn the stuff you know nothing about, and we wouldn't want to take that away from you.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Hatter23 on December 17, 2013, 09:09:26 AM
Just use COMMON SENSE!

Imagine a popular fictional novel series came out, lets say The Harry Potter Series.

Now imagine that people everywhere started talking about said series and started forming organizations about discussing it. The organizations declare that Magic and Hogwarts really exist.

Everywhere you go there are people handing out fliers about "defence from the dark arts.” They even wake you up Saturday morning to try to convince you to join house Hufflepuff.

These organizations lobby for tax free status, and insist that schools acknowledge the existence of magic…and politicians who are part of the organizations grant it to them.

Magic is added to school textbooks.

In order for anyone to be taken seriously in politics they have to declare there allegiance to Hogwart’s.
 
Now when things happen, said politicians say “It's Dumbledore’s will.”

Wars are fought over the followers of House Gryffindore versus the followers of House Slytherin. People die for their faith in the books.

People regularly forsake medicine for magic. And whomever declares themselves a wizard and gets a wizard licence is granted societal respect. They ask for donations for the further promotion of magic and get them.

Billions of dollars worth.

When you tell them It is just well written fiction” people snort about you being just a muggle, and some even declare you a dark wizard posing as a muggle. You even get slightly discriminated against, and find it hard to find a mate who doesn't think the books are real.

Now…imagine this going on for decades.

Would you be angry with the followers of the Harry Potter books? Make fun of them?
Of course you would.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Hatter23 on December 17, 2013, 09:11:42 AM

The point is simple, I contend that your God is just as man made as all others, since we both agree upon the premise that man can create gods. Show me I am wrong, or concede you are wrong.

There was a reason I set it the way i did. It has to do with a strong religious belief of mine. surprisingly I did get one response. Not surprisingly it wasn't you... or anyone else that responded since This posting.
And this addresses anything I said, how?

Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 18, 2013, 01:21:58 AM
Just use COMMON SENSE!
Why trying to get rid of something or someone that don't exist?

Yet people in here DO NOT use common sense at all.  They are narrow minded and close minded.  Their brain are so little that they don't even know they are contradicting themselves already. 

If only, the stupid people in here would just use common sense...

HERE IS COMMON SENSE;
if there is really "NO GOD" like you stupid people said, why waste your time on proving and trying to get rid of something that don't exist, that is kind of STUPID!

I mean really, if "GOD DON'T EXIST" - than DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME ANYMORE on proving and trying to get rid of something that don't exist in the first place - that is STUPID and there by contradicting yourselves - you said one thing, but your action is the opposite of what you said.

The fact and reason why you guys are trying so hard and so stupidly to prove or get rid of something or someone like GOD, that you said don't exist in the first place - is a BIG PROOF FROM YOUR HEART - THAT YOU BELIEVE GOD EXIST.

Otherwise, why would you - so call "Smart People" or for this matter - STUPID PEOPLE - waste your time in trying so hard to prove and get rid of GOD - someone you said DON'T EXIST in the first place, and thereby contradicting yourself.

If you really want to be SMART and NOT CONTRADICTING YOURSELVES and if you really believe in your own statement that - "God don't exist and God is only an imagination", than...

1. GET RID OF THIS WEBSITE
2. Don't bother wasting your time on trying to prove and get rid of something or someone that you said DON'T EXIST in the
    first place
- someone like GOD!

In other word, DON'T BE STUPID ANYMORE, why bother trying to prove and get rid of GOD - who you said, don't exist in the first place.

WHY TRYING TO GET RID OF SOMETHING OR SOMEONE THAT DON'T EXIST?
You answer this questions?

Don't you think it's STUPID trying to get rid of something or someone that don't exist?

wow... I knew it wouldn't be long before I could point to someone who made my point for me. This is an example of "nominal Christian" Yes once you know what to look for you can spot nominal from true.
I apologize to all members of these boards... (even Nam... lol) on behalf of those of us who at least try to remain respectful.

To the owner of this post I say wow... You are part of the problem! "christians" like you are one big reason many reject Christ. I would suggest demonstrating the peace, joy, and love that comes from a relationship with my LORD. Google fruit of the spirit. You have offended many. Many will now have ought against you. Most of all thank you for damaging my witness for Christ! I pray for the lukewarm. at least the unbelievers KNOW they're not saved. I suggest you check your heart!

 That's proper church discipline. If there was more of this, there would be fewer nominals. If there were fewer nominals you would see what the Church (the body of Christ) is supposed to be. Instead other nominal christians read Matt7:1 and stop. That's Satan's favorite verse 'cause he made it into a lie that weakens the church!

Is it against the rules for a Christian to preach the Word to another "christian?" Or is this just as offensive?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Fiji on December 18, 2013, 02:59:20 AM
^^ If it were possible, based on scripture, to say which are the True Christians (tm) and which the Nominals ... there wouldn't be 40000+ Christian sects.

Seriously, harbinger, you and commonsense could throw scripture at eachother for decades and never reach a concensus.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Ataraxia on December 18, 2013, 05:50:02 AM
wow... I knew it wouldn't be long before I could point to someone who made my point for me. This is an example of "nominal Christian" Yes once you know what to look for you can spot nominal from true.
I apologize to all members of these boards... (even Nam... lol) on behalf of those of us who at least try to remain respectful.

To the owner of this post I say wow... You are part of the problem! "christians" like you are one big reason many reject Christ. I would suggest demonstrating the peace, joy, and love that comes from a relationship with my LORD. Google fruit of the spirit. You have offended many. Many will now have ought against you. Most of all thank you for damaging my witness for Christ! I pray for the lukewarm. at least the unbelievers KNOW they're not saved. I suggest you check your heart!

 That's proper church discipline. If there was more of this, there would be fewer nominals. If there were fewer nominals you would see what the Church (the body of Christ) is supposed to be. Instead other nominal christians read Matt7:1 and stop. That's Satan's favorite verse 'cause he made it into a lie that weakens the church!

Is it against the rules for a Christian to preach the Word to another "christian?" Or is this just as offensive?

You're all part of the problem. Whether one acts nastily to unbelievers or whether one displays the emotional orgasm they get from having a mental wank over God has no bearing on why people are unbelievers. It's your total inability to demonstrate that what you believe in is true that cuts it. No damage is done to you by anyone else - you all play your own part in the downfall of your own individual religious belief.

It's not offensive to preach to another, it's just laughable. It's like watching two fairy believers argue over the colour of their wings.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: harbinger77 on December 22, 2013, 09:16:13 PM
^^ If it were possible, based on scripture, to say which are the True Christians (tm) and which the Nominals ... there wouldn't be 40000+ Christian sects.

Seriously, harbinger, you and commonsense could throw scripture at eachother for decades and never reach a concensus.

I made reference to scripture but I didn't "throw" any. Some things only a fool wouldn't see. What I was referring to is one of those things. There in fact is a way to determine if one is nominal. Normally the term lukewarm would be used (Rev 3:16) but it's the fruit of the spirit referred to in Galatians 5 that would help us to determine such things. There are others too, but this is the most basic. To help get you started understanding the concept, here is a link for you.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_Holy_Spirit
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Hatter23 on December 22, 2013, 10:00:42 PM
^^ If it were possible, based on scripture, to say which are the True Christians (tm) and which the Nominals ... there wouldn't be 40000+ Christian sects.

Seriously, harbinger, you and commonsense could throw scripture at eachother for decades and never reach a concensus.

I made reference to scripture but I didn't "throw" any. Some things only a fool wouldn't see. What I was referring to is one of those things. There in fact is a way to determine if one is nominal. Normally the term lukewarm would be used (Rev 3:16) but it's the fruit of the spirit referred to in Galatians 5 that would help us to determine such things. There are others too, but this is the most basic. To help get you started understanding the concept, here is a link for you.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_Holy_Spirit

or in other words "Turn you magic decoder ring to H-77"
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: charlie24 on December 25, 2013, 09:54:38 AM
Has anyone read these contradictions? Not a single one is valid. I'm sorry, but this guy has no idea what he's talking about. The only one that seems close is #15, and that's because he has no knowledge of the 1st and 2nd covenants.
Someone tell me this guy is joking around.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: One Above All on December 25, 2013, 09:58:43 AM
Has anyone read these contradictions? Not a single one is valid. I'm sorry, but this guy has no idea what he's talking about. The only one that seems close is #15, and that's because he has no knowledge of the 1st and 2nd covenants.
Someone tell me this guy is joking around.

Feel free to debunk them. Go ahead. I can wait.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Hatter23 on December 25, 2013, 01:24:38 PM
Has anyone read these contradictions? Not a single one is valid. I'm sorry, but this guy has no idea what he's talking about. The only one that seems close is #15, and that's because he has no knowledge of the 1st and 2nd covenants.
Someone tell me this guy is joking around.

Feel free to debunk them. Go ahead. I can wait.

Yeah. And remember don't some like a child caught in a lie and add such significant elements to the story in order to reconcile the differences that they would have been mentioned in the first place...like every previous Christian and every apologetics site does.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: charlie24 on December 26, 2013, 02:08:16 PM
Sorry it took so long to get back to you guys. I have a ton of paperwork here from work I'm going through and this graph did take a while to put together.
It will take to much time and space to type out all 15 contradictions, you can refer to them on the post up top. This will be useless if you don't look up the scripture for yourself (KJV). On some of the short answers I will type out scripture, others I will give scripture reference for you to look up, but will explain the contradiction.
#4, #13, #14/ These 3 will come on a seperate post as they are long answers. 

#1 David had many mighty men before he was king and during the 40 years reigned. If you look at the scripture he gives, you will see 2 different names and 2 different numbers of people killed. If you read on in both sets of scripture you will see his list of mighty men, all the names are different because it is set at different times in the life of David. The scripture he gives is 2 seperate books of the Bilbe which means pinmanship by 2 different writers. Read it and you will see.
#2 Here the poster does not understand the connection between faith and works. The answer is both faith and works as the apostle James explains. James 2:21, (See thou how faith wrought with his works , and by works was made perfect.) James is saying: See how faith working with his works is made perfect. They work together. In Romans 4:2 the apostle Paul, also talking about Abraham, is saying Abraham is not justified by works alone, in vs. 3 he says Abraham also believed God. They are both saying the same thing in different order. Faith and works work together. Faith being believing in God and works being offering Isaac on the alter.

This is taking more time than I thought. I will pick up on #3 a little later this afternoon. Don't worry we will get there.   
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: wheels5894 on January 05, 2014, 12:03:33 PM
I think there area few biblical contradictions here - enough for most Christians anyway
http://youtu.be/RB3g6mXLEKk
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: 1makesitwrong on February 01, 2015, 06:42:31 PM
When someone says there are no contradictions but proceeds to explain why what I read isn't contradiction. Does that mean you see the contradiction and you found a way using context to explain it away. Doesn't that in and of itself mean that there is something wrong with passage and can't be understood without further and subjective interpretation. So if there is nothing wrong or no contradictions, shouldn't every one who is a true believer read the word of perfect divine being exactly the same.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on February 01, 2015, 07:40:14 PM
What the hell is a "true believer", and how do you determine who is or isn't?

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: 1makesitwrong on February 01, 2015, 08:03:11 PM
I really don't know because I am not a beliver. It was intended to be a question and a statement. Maybe I should have been a little clearer or left that part out completely or used a question mark. 
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on February 01, 2015, 08:47:11 PM
I really don't know because I am not a beliver. It was intended to be a question and a statement. Maybe I should have been a little clearer or left that part out completely or used a question mark. 

Belief[1] is a contradiction[2].

-Nam
 1. an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists [without evidence] /Google
 2. a person, thing, or situation in which inconsistent elements are present. /Google]
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: ParkingPlaces on February 01, 2015, 09:20:46 PM
When someone says there are no contradictions but proceeds to explain why what I read isn't contradiction. Does that mean you see the contradiction and you found a way using context to explain it away. Doesn't that in and of itself mean that there is something wrong with passage and can't be understood without further and subjective interpretation. So if there is nothing wrong or no contradictions, shouldn't every one who is a true believer read the word of perfect divine being exactly the same.

When someone says that there are no contractions, they are saying that their interpretation is not open for discussion. That they have eked out the only exegesis possible, and all efforts to describe the passage(s) in any other way are heresy at best, the work of the devil at worst.

Plus, others are taking it out of context, mislabeling the words as allegory, metaphor, literal or some other obviously mistaken POV, and deliberately distorting the obvious meaning for nefarious reasons. Again, that meddling devil is involved.

So while nobody is on the same side, and they all think they are on the same team, the rest of us have to put up with variety that makes the cereal aisle seem like a monoculture. But, that's the nice thing about the bible. It meets all christian believers needs, 100% of the time, whether everyone else likes it or not.

Think of believers as huge multinational, billion dollar corporations, and the bible as tax laws. Except that they don't need lawyers to make the loopholes or to interpret any passage to their advantage. It is kind of a giant do it yourself project.

Can you tell I'm a bit peeved about the lack of consistency in christianity, and how believers gloss over the issue every time it is mentioned.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: 1makesitwrong on February 02, 2015, 05:31:08 AM
Oh I don't disagree at all. I just can't wrap my head around anyone not seeing the contradictions. I guess it stems from my own personal experience. I was a beliver who decided to read the Bible from front to back. I was going through the lowest point in my life and my uncle (a pentecostal preacher) told me that was the only way to fix my life and get closer to god. I didn't even get past the first two pages before I saw my first problem with what I was reading. I honestly wasn't looking for contradictions but I couldn't ignore what I had read. When I asked my uncle for clarification, I knew immediately when he was done that there was something wrong. It became clear within a couple months that I believed nothing from the bible anymore. I was calling myself an atheist within a year. That was 7 years ago and I have never looked back.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: magicmiles on February 02, 2015, 05:53:48 AM
Do you mean you were a believer and then started reading the bible for the first time EVER? Or for the first time from beginning to end in one go?
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: 1makesitwrong on February 02, 2015, 06:16:03 AM
I had read bits and pieces but never front to back. I consider myself a christian at the time and I had no doubt of my belief prior to my uncles advice.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on February 02, 2015, 11:17:04 AM
Do you mean you were a believer and then started reading the bible for the first time EVER? Or for the first time from beginning to end in one go?

You do realize that most Christians do not read the Bibles they possess? Frankly I don't believe it's because they don't want too but because they don't understand it. Many are told to take it literally but when metaphor is used they may not understand the metaphor itself. I know many people that have no clue what a metaphor is let alone how to read one. And the Bible is chalk full of metaphor, alliterations, allegory, etc., some parts of the Bible is nothing but poetry. And trust me when I say: most people, no matter what level of education, do not, can not, and have no inclination to understand poetry. They think they do, believe they do but actually don't. So most who try to read the Bible give up within pages.

Those who actually read the Bible usually are forced to read it by a person higher than them (not a supernatural being, an actual person) and how it should be read, and what it means whether that's what it means or not.

Or a person decides to read it on their own, with or without the knowledge to understand it, research it, or the like. And most who do: fall where they fall.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: 1makesitwrong on February 02, 2015, 01:40:09 PM
To be honest, I was really surprised when I read my first contradiction. I really wasn't looking for them. I however couldn't just let it go and that led me to questioning the whole religion. Then eventually to being an atheist.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Fiji on February 03, 2015, 02:05:53 AM
Well, you know what they say, the shortest road to Atheism is through the bible.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: 1makesitwrong on February 03, 2015, 07:31:19 AM
Yes you are right. That is why I find it so hard to except, when people say there is no problems with what is written in the bible.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on February 03, 2015, 11:17:58 AM
Yes you are right. That is why I find it so hard to except, when people say there is no problems with what is written in the bible.

That's because they haven't read it. Or it validates their hatred of others. Or they're so selfish that they believe they'll see their loved ones after death. Or they're just plain ignorant of reality. Or they've been brainwashed since birth to believe it. Or...

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Fiji on February 05, 2015, 04:24:38 AM
I don't know who first said it but, to most christians the bible is like an online licence agreement ... scroll to the and and click "I agree"
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on February 05, 2015, 10:53:36 AM
I don't know who first said it but, to most christians the bible is like an online licence agreement ... scroll to the and and click "I agree"

If you don't we'll send you to hell.

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: screwtape on February 05, 2015, 11:28:02 AM
I don't know who first said it but, to most christians the bible is like an online licence agreement ... scroll to the and and click "I agree"

sounds like kcrady
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: jdawg70 on February 05, 2015, 11:30:34 AM
I don't know who first said it but, to most christians the bible is like an online licence agreement ... scroll to the and and click "I agree"

I think it's more like the EULA with standalone software.

One day, you find that SalvationSoft is a really useful, beneficial software package for you to use.  So you run out, get a copy, and install it.  BAM - you get hit with the EULA.  It's really long, and all you really want is to use SalvationSoft anyway, so it's fine if you just click through with a quick 'I agree' so that you can just get started.

Years go by.  You've gotten pretty accustomed to SalvationSoft - it pops up at start up and, at least once a week, you click the 'Update Now' button that occasionally pops up.  And it feels like just having it makes your computer run really smoothly.  But it's time to do some computer maintenance - gotta clean up that hard drive!  So you go through a bunch of uninstalls, disk clean up utilities, yadayadayada.  Ooops!  Gotta re-install SalvationSoft.

You know what?  I've got a little bit of time this go around.  I'm going to read this EULA...
...holy shitThat's what I had agreed to?  I'm supposed to periodically replace my RAM, use only a CRT monitor, and hop on one foot every time I shut down my machine?  Well, I don't really agree with all that, but SalvationSoft has been pretty beneficial to me, and me not doing any of that hasn't really been a problem or anything at this point, so...
...whatever, 'I agree' (and, mind you, without the slightest hint of re-evaluating whether or not SalvationSoft is worthwhile to have in the first place.  I mean...what does it actually do?).
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: Nam on February 05, 2015, 11:35:22 AM
^you talk too much.

;)

-Nam
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: jdawg70 on February 05, 2015, 11:55:01 AM
^you talk too much.

;)

That's what everyone keeps telling me.  And I don't understand it.  It's not like I just keep going and going and going saying the same things over and over again.  I mean, it's completely fine when they tell me that.  What I don't understand is why they don't get that's it's just not true.  You would think that after I explain all the various ways that I am not overtly talkative that they would get it.  It's not like I say the same things over and over and over again or anything.  I don't get it.

After someone tells me I talk too much, I tell them all about how I'm not that talkative.  It's clearly the case - after all, if I were the type to talk too much, would I really be able to spend 30 minutes telling someone all the ways that I don't talk too much?  Didn't think so.

It's not as if I just repeat myself, saying the same things over and over and over again.  It's completely fine when someone tells me that I talk too much, but after explaining, in point-by-point detail, how I do not talk too much, I'd expect them to finally understand that I do not, in fact, talk too much.  I don't think it's too much to ask - just understand that I really don't talk too much.  It's not like I say the same things over and over and over again.

Anyway, how about that local sports team?  Aren't they the worst?  I like candy.  Bubblegum and taffy.  Oh yeah, and this one time when I was at the corner of 5th and Washington, and this chick (I thought was a chick at least) propositioned me, and I said no - good times.  I said no.  I totally said no.  Regardless of what he says - he's a liar.  But yeah...taffy.

<insert sarcasm-clarifying emoticon>
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: HentKovind on December 05, 2015, 03:46:07 AM
Noice. Graphs are fun.
Title: Re: Bible Contradiction Graph
Post by: composer on June 25, 2017, 10:28:29 PM
I don't know who first said it but, to most christians the bible is like an online licence agreement ... scroll to the and and click "I agree"
Well with their narcissistic as-hole supposedly at their head, to even partly qualify, they must agree to its murderous regime -

Story book jebus speaking: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [ them ] before me. (Luke 19:27) KJV UN-holy Story book

:police: