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Main Discussion Zone => Science => Topic started by: TownL7 on September 09, 2008, 12:11:35 PM

Title: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: TownL7 on September 09, 2008, 12:11:35 PM
WoW!
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/09/biologists-on-t.html?npu=1&mbid=yhp
Bringing non-living matter to life.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: ;) on September 09, 2008, 12:30:26 PM
That's incredible!
I'll be keeping an eye on this guys name :)
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Cyberia on September 09, 2008, 01:52:42 PM
That's amazing, and it sounds a lot like this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg[/youtube]
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Mooby on September 09, 2008, 04:48:40 PM
Given the work with viruses in the last few years, I was wondering how long it would be until they got protocells up and running.

I'm hoping we can go from amino acid to bacteria within 10 years.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: bahramthered on September 09, 2008, 06:22:28 PM
I wonder what this will do to creationist?

Psyopathic rage or mental gymnastics to disclaim it?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: WellManicuredMan on September 09, 2008, 07:04:55 PM
I wonder what this will do to creationist?

Psyopathic rage or mental gymnastics to disclaim it?

I'm guessing the former.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 09, 2008, 08:35:53 PM
I wonder what this will do to creationist?

Psyopathic rage or mental gymnastics to disclaim it?


Well considering these experiments actually require...an intelligent designer...I don't think you'll find much opposition from the creationists.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Irish on September 09, 2008, 08:52:46 PM
I wonder what this will do to creationist?

Psyopathic rage or mental gymnastics to disclaim it?


Well considering these experiments actually require...an intelligent designer...I don't think you'll find much opposition from the creationists.

Yup, remember that while these are protocells created from inorganic materials they still had to have a scientist put them together.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 09, 2008, 09:01:17 PM
Actually, what the scientists are aiming for - if you read the article - is to merely be able to create the right conditions, and then allow life to form on its own.  If such a thing happened, and if those conditions can come about naturally, then you're entirely wrong.  They will have proven that no intelligent designer is needed.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Irish on September 09, 2008, 09:03:56 PM
Actually, what the scientists are aiming for - if you read the article - is to merely be able to create the right conditions, and then allow life to form on its own.  If such a thing happened, and if those conditions can come about naturally, then you're entirely wrong.  They will have proven that no intelligent designer is needed.

I'm sorry.  Yeah, I read the article.  I'm just saying that as of right now the cells were created. I read the part about them wanting to construct a cell with just enough genes to replicate and carry on all essential life functions. When that day comes.... wow!
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 09, 2008, 09:18:35 PM
Actually, what the scientists are aiming for - if you read the article - is to merely be able to create the right conditions, and then allow life to form on its own.  If such a thing happened, and if those conditions can come about naturally, then you're entirely wrong.  They will have proven that no intelligent designer is needed.

They're still creating the right conditions. Which is essentially what theistic evolutionists have been saying God did all along.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 09, 2008, 09:38:13 PM
More than that, JTW. They are discovering what the right conditions would be.  Perhaps you should not only actually read the article, but also actually read my post that you were replying to:

Actually, what the scientists are aiming for - if you read the article - is to merely be able to create the right conditions, and then allow life to form on its own.  If such a thing happened, and if those conditions can come about naturally, then you're entirely wrong.  They will have proven that no intelligent designer is needed.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Cyberia on September 10, 2008, 12:54:55 AM
They're still creating the right conditions. Which is essentially what theistic evolutionists have been saying God did all along.
Yea, but the Creationists say it was poofed into existence and could NOT have happened on it's own.

Not that mere proof will persuade them though.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: bahramthered on September 10, 2008, 06:39:40 AM
Once they discover the correct conditons and show the planet had these conditions, things get intresting.

BTW: YEC claim the world was poofed, and this may devestate them. Espically if the researchers try guiding these things evolution (simply removing the bad ones lke Natural selection on overdrive)

OEC will likely say that simply revealed god's mechanism, and he simply oversaw and guided evolution.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 10, 2008, 08:11:47 AM
More than that, JTW. They are discovering what the right conditions would be.  Perhaps you should not only actually read the article, but also actually read my post that you were replying to:

Actually, what the scientists are aiming for - if you read the article - is to merely be able to create the right conditions, and then allow life to form on its own.  If such a thing happened, and if those conditions can come about naturally, then you're entirely wrong.  They will have proven that no intelligent designer is needed.

Irrelevant. The planet existing with the right conditions in the first place is the creator creating.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Hermes on September 10, 2008, 08:24:50 AM
Related (one of the people mentioned in the article).

Quote
Craig Venter: On the verge of creating synthetic life
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/craig_venter_is_on_the_verge_of_creating_synthetic_life.html (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/craig_venter_is_on_the_verge_of_creating_synthetic_life.html)

About this talk

"Can we create new life out of our digital universe?" Craig Venter asks. His answer is "yes" -- and pretty soon. He walks through his latest research and promises that we’ll soon be able to build and boot up a synthetic chromosome.

About Craig Venter

In 2001, Craig Venter made headlines for sequencing the human genome. In 2003, he starting mapping the ocean's biodiversity. Now he's working to create the first synthetic lifeforms -- microorganisms that can produce alternative fuels. And he's very, very close.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 10, 2008, 09:28:42 AM
Irrelevant. The planet existing with the right conditions in the first place is the creator creating.

I get what you're saying now.  Well, I suppose if you believe a planet's existence needs a creator, then this experiment - and abiogenesis in general - has no conflict with your beliefs.

Then again, why do you believe that planets need to be explicitly created by an intelligent designer, rather than accreted out of material left over from star formation?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 10, 2008, 09:34:42 AM
From what star formation? Where'd that come from?

Extrapolate further and further if you wish but it all keeps coming back to an original creation.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 10, 2008, 09:50:23 AM
If you're going to axiomatically define the entire universe as "created" then you cannot honestly pretend to be able to distinguish between things that are created and those that are not.  Either all things are created, or nothing is created, and in either case there is no way of telling them apart.

There may well be a first-cause type of intelligent being who caused the Big Bang.  Clearly something did.  I see no reason to project human qualities (such as intelligence) onto it, though.  That's just baseless speculation and mental masturbation.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 10, 2008, 10:08:31 AM
But that's exactly the point. The title of the thread is "Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life"

They're creating the conditions that lead to life. Just like we're saying God did.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 10, 2008, 10:18:00 AM
Can you be more specific, then - what is it, exactly, that you think God did?

Beliefs on that matter vary greatly.  Even in your own posts, you've expressed ideas ranging from God creating the universe, to God creating the sun, to God creating specific conditions on Earth.  Which is it?  Do you even know, or is this just an exercise where you try to fit your god into whatever gap he'll fit into?

I look forward to your clarifying, specific answer.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Mooby on September 10, 2008, 10:21:07 AM
But that's exactly the point. The title of the thread is "Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life"

They're creating the conditions that lead to life. Just like we're saying God did.
Wonderful.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world will get key insights into how life as we know it got its start.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 10, 2008, 10:33:40 AM
Can you be more specific, then - what is it, exactly, that you think God did?

Beliefs on that matter vary greatly.  Even in your own posts, you've expressed ideas ranging from God creating the universe, to God creating the sun, to God creating specific conditions on Earth.  Which is it?  Do you even know, or is this just an exercise where you try to fit your god into whatever gap he'll fit into?

I look forward to your clarifying, specific answer.

It's a matter of creating everything from one event. All it takes is the mathematical boundaries or constants + matter. Everything else naturally comes out of that. God doesn't even really need to do anything after the initial "blast".
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 10, 2008, 11:29:46 AM
Ahh, so he's just a first-cause god.  Alright.

It is then misleading to say that it created humans, just as it is misleading to say that your great-grandfather made a post on this forum.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 10, 2008, 12:02:02 PM
Ahh, so he's just a first-cause god.  Alright.

It is then misleading to say that it created humans, just as it is misleading to say that your great-grandfather made a post on this forum.

What created humans then?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 10, 2008, 12:30:38 PM
I never claimed that humans were created.

Are you implying humans were explicitly created?  I thought you put the creation-point at the Big Bang?  There were, as far as I know, no humans in existence at that point.

Are you one of those people who believes the universe was created in more-or-less its present state at the Big Bang?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 10, 2008, 12:33:05 PM
No, how did we get here?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 10, 2008, 02:04:15 PM
I for one was born.

If you mean the species, I imagine we evolved from another species.  That's how new species are "created" today, after all.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 10, 2008, 02:20:01 PM
So trace that back to the beginning. Everything comes in stages. Chronologically time is irrelevant from one eon to another. It is billions of years or a microsecond depending on your perspective.

If God sets this in motion from the very spark of beginning, He is responsible for the entire creation regardless whether He is hands off or not.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 10, 2008, 02:34:25 PM
In that sense, he would be.  However...

It is then misleading to say that it created humans, just as it is misleading to say that your great-grandfather made a post on this forum.

Care to go around the mulberry bush again?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 10, 2008, 02:46:30 PM
No more misleading than saying my parents didn't create me, a bunch of molocules and atoms all pushed together did.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 10, 2008, 03:36:39 PM
I can't continue to discuss this topic with someone who deliberately refuses to see my point.  And it's either your deliberate refusal, or intellectual handicap, neither of which I can do anything about.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 10, 2008, 03:49:54 PM
What was your point again? Oh, that God didn't create anything directly.

If something says made in China using 100% African apricot juice, what is it? China juice or apricot juice?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 10, 2008, 04:11:42 PM
I'll try one last time.

"It" - meaning the object as defined and identified, in this case let's say it's a bottle of juice - was made by whatever person/process assembled it.  The further you go back along the chain of causation that created it, the further you get from anything we can meaningfully identify as its "creator".  Get it?

Bah, I've lost patience now with this "creation" term.  Strictly speaking, no instance of creation has ever been observed*.  Only rearrangement.  Positing creation rather than rearrangement breaks parsimony.  Is there a good reason to do this?  What did god rearrange in order to get the material for the universe?


* - Some will be pedantic and point out that virtual particles come into existence without being rearranged from something else.  I'd like to point out that A. they don't exist for long (are unstable), and B. their genesis is evidence that something can, indeed, spontaneously appear out of nothing.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 10, 2008, 06:06:46 PM
I'll try one last time.

"It" - meaning the object as defined and identified, in this case let's say it's a bottle of juice - was made by whatever person/process assembled it.  The further you go back along the chain of causation that created it, the further you get from anything we can meaningfully identify as its "creator".  Get it?

Wrong. It's both China juice and apricot juice.

Quote
Bah, I've lost patience now with this "creation" term.  Strictly speaking, no instance of creation has ever been observed*.  Only rearrangement.  Positing creation rather than rearrangement breaks parsimony.  Is there a good reason to do this?  What did god rearrange in order to get the material for the universe?

That's the burning question, pardon the pun. But there's as much evidence for God flipping the switch as there is for nothing flipping the switch. Hence, claiming everything that was created (matter) from that initial blast being the result of a creator.

Quote
* - Some will be pedantic and point out that virtual particles come into existence without being rearranged from something else.  I'd like to point out that A. they don't exist for long (are unstable), and B. their genesis is evidence that something can, indeed, spontaneously appear out of nothing.

No matter where we go with this I will always have the upper hand. The creation out of nothing of a virtual particle is my Spinozan checkmate - everything is God.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 10, 2008, 07:11:31 PM
Well, if you define God as being "everything" then I can hardly disprove it, but I have to suspect your motives for doing so.  Why not just call everything, "everything"?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: bahramthered on September 10, 2008, 07:33:46 PM

No matter where we go with this I will always have the upper hand. The creation out of nothing of a virtual particle is my Spinozan checkmate - everything is God.


Actually you don't. Your assuming that because the orgins of the universe is a mystery it had to be god and/or it couldn't have been a natural event. This is circular logic at best.

What proof do you have that god did anything, let alone exists?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: NinjaProof on September 10, 2008, 11:53:41 PM
I wonder what this will do to creationist?

Psyopathic rage or mental gymnastics to disclaim it?

Mental gymnastics sound like good exercise. Scientists methodically building protocells which "might represent life as it began or could exist elsewhere in the universe" is a far cry from proof of ambiogenesis, and at any rate does nothing to disprove creationism.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Hermes on September 11, 2008, 06:35:42 AM
I wonder what this will do to creationist?

Psyopathic rage or mental gymnastics to disclaim it?

Mental gymnastics sound like good exercise. Scientists methodically building protocells which "might represent life as it began or could exist elsewhere in the universe" is a far cry from proof of ambiogenesis, and at any rate does nothing to disprove creationism.

Of course not.  Creationism isn't reality, it's a claim of magic without the demonstration.  Why would anyone want to spend time disproving that which has no support?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 11, 2008, 06:54:50 AM
Well, if you define God as being "everything" then I can hardly disprove it, but I have to suspect your motives for doing so.  Why not just call everything, "everything"?

Now we're getting somewhere. We think it has a conscience, that's why.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Hermes on September 11, 2008, 07:06:36 AM
Well, if you define God as being "everything" then I can hardly disprove it, but I have to suspect your motives for doing so.  Why not just call everything, "everything"?

Now we're getting somewhere. We think it has a conscience, that's why.

Of course it does.  You're talking to it right now, and you'll talk to more of the universe's conscience later.  It can even talk to itself.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: bahramthered on September 11, 2008, 08:21:08 AM
Under that logic the Nimbari have best relgion ever. The idea that universe is sentient and investing pieces of itself in us to explore it'self. Except of course the Nimbari are fictional...

All right. I'm gonna regret this but;

JTW; why do you beleive the universe has a conscience? I won't even ask about this panet.

The universe has galaxies surrounding black holes, and subsquently doomed to be consumed by them. The universe has whole galaxies colliding. If those worlds have life (highly likely based on the numbers) then the universe should be crying based on the sheer number of innocent deaths it's causing by the second. Why would it show it's pain to people of an insgnificant rock that's pretty dam safe at the moment.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: NinjaProof on September 11, 2008, 05:46:25 PM
I wonder what this will do to creationist?

Psyopathic rage or mental gymnastics to disclaim it?

Mental gymnastics sound like good exercise. Scientists methodically building protocells which "might represent life as it began or could exist elsewhere in the universe" is a far cry from proof of ambiogenesis, and at any rate does nothing to disprove creationism.

Of course not.  Creationism isn't reality, it's a claim of magic without the demonstration.  Why would anyone want to spend time disproving that which has no support?

Well debunking creation is the implication, isn't it? To convince the creationist that science is right and the bible is wrong? Creationism has plenty of support, you refuse to see it.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: bahramthered on September 11, 2008, 06:33:46 PM
Support or evidence? Not the same thing. I've never seen anything that resembles evidence.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Ananukia on September 11, 2008, 06:43:08 PM
I wonder what this will do to creationist?

Psyopathic rage or mental gymnastics to disclaim it?

Mental gymnastics sound like good exercise. Scientists methodically building protocells which "might represent life as it began or could exist elsewhere in the universe" is a far cry from proof of ambiogenesis, and at any rate does nothing to disprove creationism.

Of course not.  Creationism isn't reality, it's a claim of magic without the demonstration.  Why would anyone want to spend time disproving that which has no support?

Well debunking creation is the implication, isn't it? To convince the creationist that science is right and the bible is wrong? Creationism has plenty of support, you refuse to see it.

Silly christians and their belief that everyone and thing revolves around them and their ego...sorry I meant god.

Those scientists are REALLY working one handed, because they are shaking a fist up at god.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Hermes on September 11, 2008, 09:46:34 PM
I wonder what this will do to creationist?

Psyopathic rage or mental gymnastics to disclaim it?

Mental gymnastics sound like good exercise. Scientists methodically building protocells which "might represent life as it began or could exist elsewhere in the universe" is a far cry from proof of ambiogenesis, and at any rate does nothing to disprove creationism.

Of course not.  Creationism isn't reality, it's a claim of magic without the demonstration.  Why would anyone want to spend time disproving that which has no support?

Well debunking creation is the implication, isn't it? To convince the creationist that science is right and the bible is wrong? Creationism has plenty of support, you refuse to see it.

Creationism is just not important.  It describes nothing and is ignored till Creationists make a stink about it.

There is nothing to debunk.  Creationists don't offer proof, they offer assertions and then (like you) get upset when the Bible isn't even factored in.

Yet, most mainline religions (including the majority of Christian sects) claim there is no conflict between evolution and religious belief.  None.  The Christian sects often still contend that your god had a hand in it, but they claim nothing more than that.  Don't believe me?  Go make a list of the dozen or so largest sects of Christianity and go ask them if they think evolution is valid or not.

Go on ... go look and figure this out yourself.   It's not hard to actually look at the world and ask people what they really think.   You might find it refreshing.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: bahramthered on September 12, 2008, 06:49:08 AM
I'm calling that. Most sects offically say they're cool with it but why are they still trying to force it into the schools?

I live in PA near Dover. You should have seen the freaks last year (or was it two) who came and protested when that stupid ID freindly statement got ripped out of the sceince text books. Crazy. The scary kind.

They came from across the nation and had the most vile ridiculous things to say about us. And they looked like everyone else till they opened their mouths or unfolded their signs.

Even that idot Pat Robinson got in on it saying we voted god out of dover and god would punish us. *checks for the hurricane that was suppose to annilate us*

So don't tell me that most people are cool with evolution over adam and eve. Even moderate people where saying things like evolution hasn't been proven and read your bible (like I own one).
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 12, 2008, 09:35:26 AM
The nutjobs are the ones who get worked up about it and appear at protests, etc.  The sane ones don't care, so you don't see them.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 12, 2008, 10:29:27 AM
The nutjobs are the ones who get worked up about it and appear at protests, etc.  The sane ones don't care, so you don't see them.

The most important question is which is the majority and which is the minority?

Care to speculate?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Hermes on September 12, 2008, 12:00:33 PM
So don't tell me that most people are cool with evolution over adam and eve. Even moderate people where saying things like evolution hasn't been proven and read your bible (like I own one).

From a global perspective, the USA does not have most of the Christians let alone most of the religious population in any sect (minus Mormons I'd guess).  The USA tends to have very conservative religious sects and many of them.  Most other countries are more homogeneous and tend not to be uninformed.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 12, 2008, 01:05:54 PM
The nutjobs are the ones who get worked up about it and appear at protests, etc.  The sane ones don't care, so you don't see them.
The most important question is which is the majority and which is the minority?
Care to speculate?

No, I don't.  I'd like to point out that you've already labelled yourself, in this thread, as being part of the former group though.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 12, 2008, 04:01:07 PM
lol, uh ya, challenging your "from nothing" argument somehow makes me a nutjob appearing at creationist rally's...  ::)
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 12, 2008, 05:07:28 PM
When did I mention that?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 12, 2008, 05:22:08 PM
Do you mean former as in majority/minority or nutjob/sane?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 12, 2008, 05:38:23 PM
Well, you priviledge personal religious bias over physical evidence.  That makes you a nutjob in my books.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: JTW on September 12, 2008, 10:37:46 PM
That's what I'm saying Einstein. I'm challenging you on the "beginning of things" which you also can't explain efficiently any better than my "God caused it" and you're calling me a nutjob.

Good on ya.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: bahramthered on September 13, 2008, 04:08:01 AM
At least he has working theories to point to, Bing Bang, Hawkins recent work with black holes, ect to describe the universe. Christians just keep answering god did it. The smarter ones (like JTW) at least try and say "So now we know how god did it". Never mind the possibility that it might be a natural event without any god involved.

But like I said earlier and no on bothered to challenge me; I've never see a bit of evidence for god or creationism. Can anyone produce it? One rule, bible and feelings don't count as evidence. I want either concrete rock solid verified evidence or real peer reviewed science.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 13, 2008, 08:44:55 AM
I'm challenging you on the "beginning of things" ...

I don't recall you having challenged me on anything like that in this thread.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: bahramthered on September 13, 2008, 09:48:56 AM
Actually I said it generally earlier, I was just repeating it at you.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 13, 2008, 09:52:38 AM
Eh?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: bahramthered on September 13, 2008, 11:54:02 AM
Support or evidence? Not the same thing. I've never seen anything that resembles evidence.
Posted, what 2 days ago, was a general challenge to anyone reading the thread supporting that stance. Maybe I phrased the last post (or two) poorly but I repeat it again.

I have never seen the tinniest bit of real evidence for god or by extension creationism. If anyone who wants to show my their evidence feel free to. I promise to review anything anyone throws at me. To be honest I would only consider peer reviewed science and concrete evidence as real (no bible quotes or feelings).

Sound fair?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 13, 2008, 12:50:13 PM
Bahramthered, please sort out who it is exactly that you're talking to, and make it clear in your posts.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: rickymooston on September 16, 2008, 06:21:38 AM
Given the work with viruses in the last few years, I was wondering how long it would be until they got protocells up and running.

I'm hoping we can go from amino acid to bacteria within 10 years.

Hope they don't accidentally create a disease that kills us all?
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: bahramthered on September 16, 2008, 06:31:43 AM
They're creating the most primitive cells imaginable. They throw that at your immune system it'll eat it and laugh. Assuming your body doesn't just consider it food and move right on.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Azdgari on September 16, 2008, 09:48:27 AM
Indeed.  Evolution has created far deadlier diseases than humans are likely to be able to manufacture.  Nanomachines are a difference story, but that's a long way off too.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Mooby on September 16, 2008, 02:56:45 PM
They're creating the most primitive cells imaginable. They throw that at your immune system it'll eat it and laugh. Assuming your body doesn't just consider it food and move right on.
Mad Cow Disease is just a protein.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: bahramthered on September 16, 2008, 06:08:19 PM
Yeah one with a lot of time on the evolution scale. It had to develop to be effective.

These are just the most basic form.


Not to mention as a biological sample they'll keep it nice and locked up. If you want to fear man made super bugs I suggest a biological weapons lab. Or a nice research center why they "enhance" viruses to better see how they attack. Those are scary.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: Mooby on September 16, 2008, 07:14:40 PM
It's fatal.  That's not really effective.

A misfolded protein is as basic as you can get; more basic than the cells they've made here.  There's no minimum generation time for a disease to prove effective; all it takes is a bit of luck.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: ;) on September 18, 2008, 01:19:52 PM
Quote
Hope they don't accidentally create a disease that kills us all?

I Am Legend.
Title: Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
Post by: bahramthered on September 19, 2008, 04:15:33 AM
In that retarded movie the people where still alive. Under averse situations but still alive. And that goes for both the affected and the normals. Who's to say that wouldn't have triggered the next stage of rapid human evolution? On either side.