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    Posts: 2339
  • Darwins +300/-16

Maybe I wasn't clear
there seem to be a mistake here. Violate our free will to see him or not see him. Not violate our free will to do what he says or not.
It means that The angel who saw god still had the free will to chose him or not, we agree on that. If god wanted he could have made them stay and removed their free will. But he chose not to. I hope we agree on that too.
God is not visible by those who don't want to see him. He could force them so see him but he choose not to. (you agree?)
IF MY WILL IS TO NOT SEE GOD AND GOD FORCE ME TO SEE HIM, IT WILL VIOLATE MY WILL. You seem to think that my statement is something else. YOU DON'T SEE GOD BECAUSE OF YOUR CHOICE/your free will (of not seeing him).
God can do anything, you can't. You are not more powerful than God.

This is just more preaching and making claims without evidence (i.e. - more "because I say so" fallacies). It is also an ad hominem attack because you are implying that we "do not want to see", when in fact you are wrong. You have started with your conclusion and you keep trying to work backwards (in this case Romans ch1). You merely ASSUME that - no matter what - you must be right and that it's impossible that you are mistaken (which is the height of arrogance). That is the problem. I could say, "Santa Claus is not visible to those who don't want to see him." It proves nothing but bullshit. Things that are demonstrable are easily seen by all (especially when people like myself asked for demonstrable evidence for years, praying, and still got nothing). For fucks sake, even your bible says that Paul (who allegedly persecuted Christians and did not want to believe) saw Jesus. The angels also saw the deity (again allegedly as they rebelled) and it did not violate their freewill. So your argument falls apart on multiple fronts. It makes absolutely no difference whether or not a person wants to see something that is demonstrably real. My car was broken into once I did not want to see it. But it was seen anyways upon discovery. I had to go to court once and I did not want to see the judge, but I had to anyways (and it did not violate my freewill because I still chose to go to court). I'm sorry, this line of reasoning of yours is total and complete bullshit. It doesn't work with fairies, unicorns, leprechauns, Santa Claus, and it doesn't work with your alleged god. All you're doing with these arguments is attempting to make your belief system immune from having to provide demonstrable evidence. It's one obfuscation after another with you.

The argument that God can do "anything" is also false. The bible says God CANNOT lie. So you are wrong. This alleged invisible "dude" cannot do anything, sorry.
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Disciple of Sagan Absolutely in agreement May 28, 2014, 11:35:57 AM