Karma reasons for concrete message

Message

rockv12

    Emergency Room


    Posts: 240
  • Darwins +3/-44

Attempt at an insult?  Christian?  You expect a please and thank you after every comment?  Anyhooo, you missed my point.  Where are the transitions?  Everything is in constant transition?  So, where/what are they?  What is a dog between?  What is a mouse between?
ROFL.  Oh my.  Yes, rockv, an attempt at an insult by you, a Christian.  I've seen better.  The transitions are shown in those links I gave you.  We have quite a nice sequence of how whales transitioned from land dwelling to water dwelling.  That’s what evolution does. It usually takes a very long time but sometimes it doesn’t depending the the life span of the affected organism and the strength of the environmental change. But you have no idea of that.  Again, you show you have yet to know what evolutionary theory says. I’ve asked you to tell me what you think it says, but I haven’t seen that yet.   I’ll give this a whirl but I’m pretty sure it will be rather pointless.

Animals and plants evolve when environmental pressures act on them.  Any individual who has a quality that allows them to survive in a new environment better will have a better chance at passing that quality along to offspring.  This leads to evolution and the splitting into species.  Now, the word species is still up for debate in some ways but the generally accepted as a group that can interbreed and produce fertile offspring.  They share the same physiology, the same behaviors, etc that allow them to breed.  Now, to clarify, if there are no environmental pressures, things don’t change. Great White Sharks for example, they have been essentially the same for millions of years.  They fit very well into their environment and thus have no pressure to select for anything different.   

Now, take dogs.  Dogs apparently come from the wolf and this is known by molecular evidence, comparing their DNA. Wolves were impacted by humans and those that could stand being around humans became a different group since they would be impacted by human civilization as an environment that they were better at than other wolves who had different qualities, and would no longer be affected by the environmental forces in the wild away from humans. Humanity has been the environmental pressure that gets us all of the crazy shapes, sizes and behaviors that we see in domesticated dogs. Genetics show that this: is likely the basic “dog”.  Some of these are so severe that a Chihuahua can’t breed with a St. Bernard.  They might want to but they can’t physically.  So we have a likely split into a new species right there and as humans want weirder and weirder dogs, the extremes will grow.  Wolves evolved from carnivorans which share similar traits but found different niches (this is where felines come from too. Cats do different things than dogs so they fit different environmental niches).  The carnivorans came from earlier creatures called Miacoidea. And on and on. How do we know? by physiology and DNA when we can find it.  The same science that allows us to identify people from skeletal remains is the same that says that these creatures are related.   

All of the above is what Darwin observed with the Galapagos island finches.  They were from a base stock, then spread to the islands, where differing conditions put pressure on them and the most suited for the environment flourished.  They no longer interbreed.  And they are very identifiable because of their physiology. 

Like many creationists, I’m guessing that no matter how many transitional fossils we find, no matter how seamless the transition, you still would refuse to accept it because you are afraid. A common joke about creationists is that for every transitional fossil discovered, they’d whine that it only means that two more have to be found to be “believable.

I understand evolution and what it says.  What you wrote is not news to me.  But I appreciate the time you took.   The transition from land to sea for the whale...hmmm.....ok.  Again, how is finding a fossil of what appears to be part this/part that proof of a transition?  I'm not being difficult but serious.  Anything found can be said to look like one and sort of like another.  Fits easily with pre-conceived notions that "This has to be the case!!".  The question is actually more of.."WHY?"  Why would a creature jump into the water and try to breath?  This is where evolution takes extreme guesses.  Why would an animal develop a wing?  What purpose would it serve?  To think about the logic involved takes quite the imagination...and I've heard them all.   Any ideas?  And was that polite enough???
Changed Change Reason Date
Dante very polite. March 13, 2012, 09:18:48 PM