Karma reasons for concrete message



    Posts: 96
  • Darwins +3/-15

Okay, I'll start.

There are 4 primary attribute that describe what God would be. If any of these attributes are found in one force, then we can continue on, to see if God is real.

These 4 primary attributes are:

1) Eternal, not involved with the flow of our time.
2) Omnipresent, found everywhere.
3) Omnipotent, all powerful.
4) Omniscient, having all knowledge.

If God is proven to exist, then we must find a force that is eternal. If such force cannot be found, then God's existence cannot be proven. If all primary atributes are found in one force it might help to prove God CAN exist.

Heisenberg came to the conclusion that quantum events cannot be predicted. All freed electrons behave as if they are being influenced by an outside variable or force, uncertainty principle.

In "Signal Travels Father And Faster Than Light", by Malcom W. Browne, a force was found conecting two freed electrons and proven to be eternal, was present within our time, yet was not involved with the flow of our time. This eternal force connects with all freed electrons. Every particle that releases energy connects to this eternal force.

Everything that is beyond our solar system that is visible is made of stars, which all release freed electrons, light, radiation, etc. This shows this force to also be omnipresent, everywhere in the universe. Simple enough.

In experiments by Russian scientists, they found at http://www.quantumbalancing.com/news/russian_dna.htm that laser photons knew when a DNA molecule was added into the vacoom. The photons/electrons collected around the DNA strand and began to change the order of the DNA, changing it to what it desired (Evolution?). After the DNA was removed and the laser turned off the excess photons remained in the position resembling the DNA for over 22 minutes.

The easiest way to prove this force is omnipotent: by our eyes we see everything to be so complex, complex enviroments, complex galaxies and the complexity of nature and life itself. If this force created everything from nothing, seeing energy cannot be created, shows this force to be omnipotent (taking into consideration the imposibility of such word, this should be good enough to understand its meaning in the bible.

Visual evidence is seen in the distance of stars and galaxies across the universe. Acording to the first law of thermodinamycs energy cannot be created or destroyed. Then where did all the energy in our universe came from? Does it have anything to do with this same force being timeless?

The force was able to use freed electrons to manipulate DNA, showing what this force can do on a tiny scale. What could this force do to freed electrons on a large scale? Is the universe expanding from dark matter or this eternal force?

Since the universe is full of freed electrons, I can only imagine what this force could do if used all freed electrons to work as one single entity.

This data implies that all freed electrons in combination or as a collective to be Omnipotent. I say implies because this was never observed but is evident from the size and distance of galaxies that can be seen across the universe. Plus, in the double slit experiment, light, a freed electron, showed it was observant of its surroundings. It knew when it was being watched and knew when it was not. It showed a simple means of intelligence by reacting to visual stimuli.

The first bit of evidence that showed this force to be omniscient is the STI (Self Thinking Interface), device created by Physicist Roger Vogelsang, which PROVED that there is ultimate knowledge in the force that connects all freed electrons, therefore this force knows everything (omniscient).



So, let's recap:

1) ETERNAL: The twin photon experiment found photons, freed electrons to be connected to this force. Nothing can go faster than light except for this one force. This force is found to be everywhere in our universe's past, present and future, which we call time, as time doesn't exist to this force.
2) OMNIPRESENT: This force connects to all freed electrons in our universe. Freed electrons are created when matter is converted into energy. This force is everywhere, even beyond our universe.
3) OMNIPOTENT: We find galaxies at the furthest reaches of the universe, not hot gas, which was first theorized, but old galaxies. How can the light be reaching us and show old galaxies at the furthest extents of the universe? If light have a speed limit, then how did distant galaxies form long before the universe was said to have begun? This force again shows its timeless quality.
4) OMNISCIENT: Physicist Roger Vogelsang found with his STI device that not only could this force communicate but it could read thoughts and knew al things in the past and future. The STI device showed this force to have all knowledge of everything past, present and future. This device was consistent of 4 main components: a radioactive particle (AM-241) that releases freed electrons randomly, a geiger counter to detect those freed electrons, a KVM switch used to relay the signal into a computer, and a computer using a random character generator to send output to a CTR or monitor. Sounds simple right? Yes, simple enough to prove the final atribute is GOD that connects all freed electrons in the universe.

Is intelligent, timeless and can read throughts with astounding accuracy.

CONCLUSION: If there is "something" with such properties, one can also conclude that God's existence is totally possible.

"Those who deny the experimental results are denying scientific evidence. Why would my colleagues claim the universe is one consciousness if it were not discovered?"


Dr. Amit Goswami on the universal consciousness called God.

See the Unified Field theory and Universal Consciousness. The discovery of the 5th Generation computer by Vogelsang in 1982 was evidence to this single intelligent all knowing consciousness. The universe is alive, self aware. All things are a portion of this consciousness which gives life to the universe. The Great Omniscient Designer(GOD). Designer because this consciousness is self aware.


Observer Effect: Consciousness effects outcome of random number experiments, Princeton University

John Hagelin, Ph.D quotes
1: "Modern quantum physics, Molecular Biology's Neuroimmunology, they both say that we do create our own realities"

2: "The consciousness is not created by the brain. It's not purely the outcome of molecular, chemical processes in the brain but is fundamental in nature. It's the very core of nature called the Unified Field or Superstring theory."

3: "The Unified Field is a non material field filled with consciousness."

4: "It is a single field of intelligence."

5: "There is only one consciousness in this room."

6: "The universe is conscious at it's basis."

7: "A concentrated field of intelligence in nature, non material, dynamic, SELF AWARE intelligence. Those are the properties of the unified field."

Click more info for links that lead to scientific data which shows evidence that God does Exist.
Signal Travels Farther and Faster Than Light
By Malcolm W. Browne, July 22, 1997

Roger G. Vogelsang's Journal

Complexity of life in Intelligent Design

Tomotsugu finds galaxy 12.8 billion light years away:


An email letter response from physicist Fred Alan Wolf Ph.D.

"First of all the "force" is not a real force--it doesn't push or pull on anything. It is a correlation--a meaningful connection between the particles that are entangled in the sense that an observation of one the partners causes the other partner to take on a value that before the observation occurred was not determined. It's unlike anything we ordinarily see in the everyday world. According to quantum physics the two partner are entangled after they interact, however the actual value of any particular attribute remains unobserved and indeterminate. Even though the two partners are no longer in interaction with each other, observation of one the partners instantly changes the other partner. For more read my books Taking the Quantum Leap, Parallel Universes, and Mind into Matter.
It is not any more evidence of God than any other fact of life is.
They all are evidence of God."

As you can see, there is evidence that God does indeed exist.

Newtonian law, if you don't apply a force it doesn't move.

Quote by Roger G. Vogelsang
`We can thank God for the coming mental paradigm shift, even the bloodshed it brings to get things restarted correctly with a Self thinking interfacing device directly to God!'
Research Fifth generation computer with artificial intelligence. It was discovered by Vogelsang in the early 80's and he called the device a Self Thinking Interface or STI device.

Vogelsang claimed this action to be the self aware consciousness of God. Other physicists chickened out & called it a universal consciousness.


Reply to Lucifer's argument:

This debate is NOT about the veracity of the content of the bible, but about the existence or non existence of God. So, your arguments are legit, and all kind of arguments are valid, just remember that by disproving some parts of the bible you will not win this.

I am aware of a huge amount of evil things written in the bible, not to mention errors and contradictions. The bible also says the Jews were evildoers, people who several times turned their hearts to other gods, people who ignored God's commands and so on. So I believe (and this is corroborated) the bible have been manipulated and its content changed over the years, furthermore I consider even when it was written, a lot of things were included for human / particular reasons, and those things were not part of God's actions or will.

This have happened even from the beginning, by the hands of the Jewish people, yes, even the Jews, but not only them; every single religion have done modifications to the bible with different reasons.

Asfor the specific point on the Jews, here is part of an article I found using Google:

"Before the days of the print, Bibles were copied in handwriting by scribes. They were organized in a guild that in the centuries before Jesus became part of a well known political party: the Pharisees. Eventually, they became the Talmudic rabbis we see today. This method was not only cumbersome and expensive, but it also created room for errors; actually all modern Hebrew Bibles carry with them unfixed errors. Typographical errors which couldn't be validated with an older version were left as they were, testimony to the care of the scribes. However, this method also allowed creating intentional manipulations of the text for political reasons. The old copies would eventually deteriorate beyond recognition and the new ones would carry the desired changes to posterity. It could be almost a perfect system for the Pharisees, however, at certain point they committed an error and today we can see clear signs of their alterations."

This is a historical fact, and you can find this article by following this link for further information:


Let me know if you need articles to prove every other religion have done the same. Therefore I say this to your arguments: The errors, cruelty, contradictions and other arguments you might find are most likely related to the distortion of part of the message sent by God. Nevertheless, the key for salvation is still there.
Changed Change Reason Date
rickymooston A bit to long but noble effort. February 26, 2012, 12:16:35 AM
bertatberts begs the question and is special pleading. February 26, 2012, 08:01:27 AM