Karma reasons for concrete message

Message

riley2112



    Posts: 374
  • Darwins +40/-9

Here is a tantrum, with little flecks of spittle flying.. My name is Riley ,, I came to this forum about a year ago. I felt like the people here had no idea about faith, belief or religion. However I did learn some things. After awhile I left the forum, like most believer do. Well now I have come back , and I still believe that there is a creator out there. However, as for religion and I mean all of it ,, I have a little different view on it that I did last time. I am going to let you read something that made me stop and think, I could not have said it any better than this, I did not write this, but it is what I now think almost word for word.

Quote
Yes, it's quite obvious that mankind in general have always superstitiously believed that they must appease the Gods. This is true of just about every religion that exists. Even the Egyptians felt a need to appease their gods as well, as did the Greeks.

Why should a God who does not desire sacrifices cater to people's superstitious beliefs and fears?

Don't you think an all-wise supreme being would indeed be wise enough to realize that the reason people superstitiously believe that they need to appease the Gods is precisely because they believe that the Gods are angry with them?

Why would a real God continue to support such superstitious if they aren't true? And to even go out of his way to make rules about precisely how they are supposed to go about doing this?

You so-called "resolutions" of these contradictions do not constitute resolutions to me. All they amount to are extremely desperate attempts to try to keep alive an ideal that some particular ancient myths have something to do with "God".

But why bother? Can you even answer me that?

Why is it so important to you to support that the Bible is the "Word of God" at all cost?

Have you even ever wanted to understand it without contradictions? I don’t believe so.


Oh absolutely! That was my hope, dream, and expectation when I had originally set out to study the Bible.

I was erroneously taught that the Bible has answers to every question. I naively believed that as a "matter of faith" if only because my very own mother told me it was true.

But what I discovered is that just the opposite is true. The Bible does not have any answers to anything. And the proof of this is in the religion itself.

Just stand back and look at the religion. The original Jews do not even agree with each other on what these ancient stories are trying to say. Clearly Jesus didn't agree with the orthodox Pharisees of his day either. And the Pharisees themselves were not the only views on Judaism even at that time.

Moreover, why would the Jew have rejected Jesus if the Bible was truly clear about this? The Jews never accepted the rumors that Jesus was the promised messiah, and they have extremely good evidence for this.

The messiah was supposed to bring a time of peace among all nations. He was also supposed to be handed the throne of the King of David by God himself.

Jesus never became King and he most certainly didn't bring peace among nations. In fact Christianity (i.d. the rumors of Jesus) historically became the fodder for wars, crusades, and all manner of horrific acts against pagans and non-Christians. Later it even became an excuse to burn people at the stake as "witches".

Where's the "Peace to all nations"?

I agree with the Jews. Jesus could not possibly have been the promised messiah that the Christians claim.

These stories cannot be made to make sense .

I've tried extremely hard. I've bent over backwards to the point of absurdity trying to make these stories work. It's simply not possible.

 I became wiser and finally asked myself, "Why?"

Why am I trying so hard to make these stories work? It was my original hope that I could actually understanding them because they made sense. Then I could hopefully teach others what these stories truly have to say and why they are wrong in their misunderstanding and wrongful interpretations. But what I found was that this is utterly impossible to do. Trying to come up with a sane teachable version of these stories that I could actually convincingly teach to anyone is impossible. Absolutely impossible.

At the very best I can do like the Christians do and pretend to have some outrageous excuses for everything that truly don't make any sense. But why bother with that facade? What's the point to it?

Wouldn't you rather know the truth?

The truth is that these stories cannot be made consistent by anyone. And this is precisely why there are so many different sects and denominations of this religion. No two people are willing to make up or accept the same excuses for these absurdly contradiction fables.

And let's go back to the question of "Why?"

Why bother? Any excuses I could possibly come up with for these stores are going to be extremely lame and unconvincing in general. And to be perfectly honest I cannot even come up with any excuses that would even convince myself.

These fables cannot possibly be true.

And what does the overall story claim?

Well this is something almost everyone can agree on (although there are even people who can't agree on the big picture).

The overall story proclaims that mankind has "fallen from grace" from God and we are in dire need of repentance and need to reconciled with God.

This is the underlying premise of the whole Biblical Picture. As a personal note I personally don't feel that I'm at odds with any God. So this is already going against my own personal innate feelings.

This God tries to get humans to worship, obey, and love him the whole way through these stories failing miserably at every turn of the page of the book.

If you stand back and look at it this God never does a truly wise or intelligent thing the whole way through. It's all done via violence and threats of more violence. Basically saying, "Love and Obey me or be damned!".

IMHO, this is not an intelligent tactic for even mortal parents to employ. The idea that a supposedly all-wise God would employ such low-mentality tactics is absurd at best, and quite disturbing at worst.

So what is Jesus offering to "save" us from? An angry wrathful God who will damn us if we refuse to love, honor and obey him, when all the while he behaves like a totally immature ignoramus?

What's to love?

How can you love a God who's doing nothing other than threatening to harm you if you fail to love him and not even giving you any reason to love him?

And this is all based on the idea that you have already knowingly and willfully rebelled against him and have rejected him and have chosen evil over good?

That's utter nonsense. I know for a fact that none of this is true of me. I haven't chosen evil over good simply because I've recognized the Bible is utterly absurd.

To simply not believe in Jesus cannot be grounds for damnation. Not believing in Jesus or the Bible in general, does not constitute an act of evil, nor does it constituent choosing evil over good.
Yet for Christianity to fly this MUST BE TRUE.

At least as it's preached by the Christians and by many authors of the New Testament. (i.e. Mark, John, Paul), and even places in the Old Testament that claim that anyone who doesn't believe in this religion is an immoral sinner who is incapable of doing good.

Those are all false. They are all lies. Disbelieve in the Abraham God of the Hebrews cannot possibly be grounds for damnation or having chosen evil over good.

So in the BIG PICTURE this religion has clearly shot itself in its own foot. It's trying to demand that if you don't believe in this religion God will hate you and rightfully so because if you refuse to cower down to this religion this religion itself will brand you as a heathen sinner deserving of damnation. 

IMHO, the Hebrew Bible is nothing more than a truly underhanded brainwashing tactic created by the Hebrews in an attempt to elevate their religion above all other religions. This is what these ancient cultures always tried to do. They were constantly trying to lay claim to having the only true religion. Even the Greeks had Zeus as "The God of Gods". The Hebrews aren't any different.

The bottom line for me is simple.

Am I "rejecting my Creator" by not believing in Hebrew religious brainwashing tactics designed to create religious bigotry that puts their religion above all other religions?

No, absolutely not. That is absurd.

Their myths are riddled with absurdities, self-contradictions, and totally unreasonable ultimatums. (like either accept Christ as your savior or be damned).

What kind of a genuinely righteous creator would have created such a negative scheme as this?

It's an 'ungodly' collection of fables, IMHO.

There is no reason to even support it. And there are actually far better reasons for renouncing it as being utterly absurd.

To be perfectly honest, as much as I can appreciate, and personally enjoy, the dream of a spiritual or mystical essence to reality, in terms of human society I would vote for atheism over any of the Abrahamic religions as being a far more sane philosophy to live by.

The Abrahamic religions are founded entirely on the principle that mankind is rebelling against the creator, and that the creator has all manner of commands and directives that he wants mankind to abide by (many of which I do not even see as being sane, much less moral).

Why support ancient fables that proclaim that we are all rebelling against our creator? That's absurd. And it's a highly negative stance to take.

Moreover, even if you accept the "religion" then you are stuck with a lifetime of having to either support all the nonsense in these fables or being branded a "False Believer" because you refuse to swallow and obey specific biblical passages verbatim.

Do I believe that women should be treated as second-class citizens? No I don't.

Yet the Bible demands that they must be, and clearly you can see this in the Catholic Church where women are still not permitted to hold any position of importance or authority.

Islam has the same male-chauvinistic problems. And they all come from these fables.

Sure, there are "Progressive Protestants" who refuse to accept the Bible verbatim.

But what are they doing other than rejecting the Bible whilst still pretending to believe in it. What sense does that even make?

Why continue to cling to a Biblical picture of God if you're going to reject a lot of what the Bible even has to say?

I'm not about to go down that road. That road is truly absurd. Rejecting a dogma whilst pretending to accept it is the epitome of trying to cling to something that you truly don't even believe in.

I'm not going to become a "pretentious Christian". If they Bible can't be trusted verbatim, then let's MOVE ON. Why pretend that we can believe in just parts of it and reject other parts?

That's nonsense, IMHO.(Divine Insight, Apr 23, 2013)

Thank you all for putting up with me the last time I was here...


edit: added quote tag at top
Changed Change Reason Date
kin hell truly great "tantrum" May 09, 2013, 08:20:30 PM
median An absolutely excellent post. Transparent and honest - A+ May 09, 2013, 05:45:18 PM
Iamrational Wise thoughts my friend May 09, 2013, 04:28:35 PM
The Gawd +1 for the insight May 09, 2013, 04:25:38 PM
Samothec well said & welcome to reality May 09, 2013, 04:05:21 PM
Jag Good post May 09, 2013, 03:35:30 PM
screwtape good post May 09, 2013, 02:33:32 PM