Karma reasons for concrete message

Message

jaimehlers

    Global Moderator


    Posts: 8940
  • Darwins +1134/-27

What was emotional about a rock?  Come on jaimehlers. You need my validations to be squishy and emotional but you fail to see how in squishy it was to be lead here.  I had a dream that my leg was amputated......  pretty emotional!  Pretty easy to be fooled!  I am pounding home the very validation the thread asks for, it's just that your rabid confirmation bias has blinded you so much that you reject it out of hand.
The problem isn't the emotions you felt in those specific instances, it's your tendency to believe (assume) that such coincidences are supernatural, your god at work in the world, and thus to seek emotional validation from having that belief further confirmed.  Indeed, you're at the point of taking action to go after the emotional validation you need to further confirm your belief.  But that validation only works if you already believe.  When you tell your stories to someone who does not believe, they aren't inclined to see it as the hand of your god at work, so the interpretation you put on your events doesn't work for them.

Quote from: WayneHarropson
it's just that your rabid confirmation bias has blinded you so much that you reject it out of hand.
Confirmation bias isn't when someone refuses to accept your own explanation, it's when they refuse to accept any alternate explanation and refuse to let any argument or evidence sway them.  If you had the kind of evidence that could satisfy skeptics, we'd be giving your explanation a lot more consideration.  Since you can't (indeed, you've claimed that your god is intentionally withholding it), there's no point in giving any real consideration to your explanations.

Quote from: WayneHarropson
The truth of the matter here is that you can't explain it in natural terms either, though you try and fail miserably.  I'm having no trouble explaining how it happens because I know who makes it happen.
Saying "God did X" is not an explanation, it's a statement (in this case, an opinion).  And the actual fact of the matter is that everything, even what you attribute to your god, has a natural explanation.  Your god didn't magic up that rock you found, or cause it to materialize in your pocket.  You saw it lying on the ground, remembered that your daughter had brought it home, and impulsively picked it up and brought it to church with you.  The only thing that you're actually attributing to your god is your impulse to pick up the rock, and the only reason is because that teacher ended up needing a rock for his lesson.  Frankly, that's not really saying very much, essentially that your god is limited to only things which happen to resemble coincidence.

Quote from: WayneHarropson
You seem to have just redefined long shot here.  You are so silly.
Really?  A long shot, when it refers to chance, is something that's not very likely to happen, which is exactly the way I was using it.

Quote from: WayneHarropson
I'm pretty sure were not talking about the same thing here, you just can't see it.  Be sure to read the other post today. It completely debunks you here quite deftly.
I did read your other post.  Frankly, your argument in it just amounts to you saying, "I don't really know why I picked up this rock, but I think the Holy Spirit made me do it because I happened to need it later".  It doesn't even debunk what I said, let alone deftly, because you can't actually show any evidence to back up what you're saying.  The only thing you can point to is coincidentally needing it later on, and that just doesn't fly as convincing evidence.

Quote from: WayneHarropson
I answered this elsewhere.  But I'm going to absolutely agree one hundred percent on  the last part.  Here's the rub.  It is absolutely complicated just like you described, not simple in execution at all.  It is absolutely fascinating how complex it all is.  You are  right.  You are so so right.  That's why knowing how it happened is so simple, the god of the universe did it.  It is that simple.
It's that simple to say, anyway, but that doesn't actually make it a simple explanation.  Indeed, as I said before, it isn't an explanation at all, it's an opinion.  To say "the god of the universe did it" doesn't explain how it happened, just who you think did it.

Quote from: WayneHarropson
Did you know that a god knows how many times a robin hops on any given day?  He has the hair on your head numbered (even if it is zero.) Placing that rock was a no brainer for Him.
And you know this...how, exactly?  Because this sounds an awful lot like hearsay to me - something you've been told in the past, which you're repeating now, but which you can't base on facts in evidence.

Quote from: WayneHarropson
I guess your are right, I must allow you to try, after all, that's what were here for.
Thank you oh so very much for your kindness and consideration, giving me permission to do something I was going to do whether you thought I should or not.

Quote from: WayneHarropson
Some coincidences have natural explanations, It's my job to weed out the natural ones from the ones I'm reporting to you as god orchestrated "episodes".  How am I doing?
Not very well, I'm afraid.  Indeed, you have yet to show us that any of the "god-orchestrated episodes" you've related are actually distinguishable from natural coincidences.  It would sure help if you had some convincing factual evidence to back up what you're saying.

Quote from: WayneHarropson
You make a good point, maybe he's helping me improve my typing skills and you guys are the Mavis bacon program assigned to me.  Here's a little secret, sometimes I sound like I'm complaining, but really I'm laughing at all of you.  I'm acting like I'm complaining to make the very valid point that you guys are silly, and really I'm just having a blast letting you know it.  It's all for a good cause, the truth.
You do realize that laughing at the people you're trying to convince doesn't really accomplish anything, right?  Frankly, though, aside from being an instance of bad manners, it doesn't really bother me.  I've had to deal with people who were much ruder and nastier than that.  But for what it's worth, I can't help you with the purpose of your visit - I don't believe you were 'sent' here anymore than I believe I was.  You'll have to take your own lessons from this.

Quote from: WayneHarropson
I think we've eliminated all those possibilities, but if you need a little more time I'll be here to help.
Actually, it's entirely possible that you could be mistaken, or delusional, or misled - your faith is no guarantee against any of those.  Well, I'll admit the latter is less likely than the former two, because it predicates something which does the misleading.  But since you're predicating something which is giving you these experiences to begin with, we can't rule it out.

Quote from: WayneHarropson
You just don't know how comfortable I am with the solid evidence I have, but you aren't me, so you'll  just have to try to take my word for it.
Which is entirely the point.  We're not willing to take your word for it, anymore than we'd take the word of someone who claimed he'd invented cold fusion in his garage.  We expect you to back up what you're saying with solid evidence to support it, and so far you haven't.  If you aren't willing or able to provide it, that's your problem, not ours.  We have no obligation whatsoever to simply take you at your word.

Quote from: WayneHarropson
It's also child's play to withold it from you.  Think about that.
Which just so happens to exactly match how it would work out if there was no god to provide such evidence in the first place.  You might want to think about that.
Changed Change Reason Date
screwtape good post February 20, 2013, 11:35:01 AM