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Quote from: Lukvance
The proof? Miracles are proof or the existence of God outside our body/brains.
No, they are not, because nobody has ever actually demonstrated that something is a miracle, let alone that it's caused by some supernatural entity.
You see? That is a perfect example of a counter argument that is not supported. You should explain how would someone should "demonstrate that something is a miracle" then how it doesn't actually go that way and who that someone else (preferably an expert) is supporting your claim.

Quote from: Lukvance
Do they follow any scientific process? Yes they do.
They follow it to a limited extent, by investigating to find if there is some known scientific cause for them.  It's what they do after determining that there is no known cause that is not scientific.
What else would you add?
Again "what they do after is not scientific" is a claim that should be supported. And for that you should be able to tell us "what they do after" and support your claim with quotes from experts that knows "what they do after" then show us why it is not scientific. Finally present us how it should be done to be scientific.

Quote from: Lukvance
Are the experiment reproducible? Yes.
No, they are not, because the final verdict is handed down by priests and theologians, who subjectively decide whether it is or isn't a miracle.  That not only is not reproducible, it is no more scientific than if someone claimed that Darth Vader had told him that neutrinos were actually "The Force".
Your counter argument here is "the final verdict is handed down by priests and theologians".
When I presented the scientific method I indeed presented these expert as a source for the final verdict. I understand how it can be misunderstood.
But it doesn't have to be them. You can declare something to be a miracle by following the same rules they do and then present your findings to experts. They will surely acknowledge your work and you will have found a miracle recognize by the Church.
You can also find a miracle not recognize by the church but you wouldn't be 100% sure that it is God's doing.
Like if you find proof of a Higgs Boson in your backyard, you wouldn't be 100% sure it is one as long as you don't submit your findings to experts.

Quote from: Lukvance
Up to now all I've read are personal opinions not supported by any documents or experts from the field. I get it you want to make sure that there are no flaws in the method. But I remind you that you are not the only one trying to refute the existence of God and that those before you met the same wall that you encounter now. Your lack of knowledge on the subject.
This isn't about trying to refute God.  Anyone with half a brain can tell you that it's impossible to prove that something doesn't exist.  That's why it's up to believers like yourself to provide evidence that shows that it does.
If it's not about that. What is it about then? Why do you try to refute the proofs of God's existence if you don't want to refute the existence of God?

In other words, we have to take their word for it, which isn't scientific in any way.
What would be the scientific way?

Quote from: Lukvance
I remember someone asking me why I use "events", sometime I use event because miracles are not only about people healing there are more than one way that God reveal his presence to us.
And this is a second fatal problem with your assertion.  What seems to you to be God revealing his presence can seem like something entirely different to someone else.  For example, skeptic564768 would avow that it isn't actually God revealing his presence to you, it's demons masquerading as your god to keep you fooled.  Whereas an atheist or skeptic would likely conclude that it wasn't a god or other supernatural being at all, and instead was simply your brain doing what it does best - reinforcing what you already believe to be true by looking for patterns that support it and dismissing patterns that don't.
I don't get what is your counter argument here? Everyone has his opinion? That's not new. That doesn't make something true, less true. It is not because someone think that it is from another God that makes miracles coming from another God. It's not because you think that it's simply brains doing that it does best that it is not God's doing. You have to support your claims, preferably with people recognize by their peers as knowledgeable when it comes to miracles.
Changed Change Reason Date
jdawg70 I suspect you have brain damage. July 14, 2014, 09:11:29 PM