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Patrick Henry

    Posts: 88
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I don't know about anything else, but the idea of a designer seems to be an hindrance to an argument more than anything else. here's the problems -

1. We can't tell is something really has been designed - there's no marker indicating it - so it is a very subjective idea and one that a majority of scientists don't accept.
The building blocks of life seem to be coded with information that tells them what to do.  I find that very interesting and it seems like a marker to me.   
I suppose from a purely scientific point of view it enters the realm of subjectivity.  But science poses many hypotheses along the way.   It seems that the God hypothesis is not taken very kindly, starting in the classroom.  So many up and coming scientists have that drilled out of them right from the beginning.   Profs who suggest ID are often not treated very well either.  All this seems very hypocritical in an educational system where open thought and diversity of opinion is supposed to be valued and respected.

2. That something or indeed all of nature has been designed seems to be a proposition for which there is no value. How does such a proposition help us in scientific research, in medical science?

There has been value for healthy living that is derived from the bible, but I'm not convinced that a designer needs to give us value in scientific research.  But He does if we follow His word.  In the age of focusing on preventative medicine through healthy living, the bible was ahead of its time.  Studies have shown that gratitude has been recently shown to improve a person's overall happiness and health.  Forgiveness can lower a person's stress level, which has obvious health benefits.  Jesus encouraged people not to worry.  We all know what too much worry can do to a person.  There are also health benefits from circumcision, avoiding drunkenness, pork, shellfish, to name a few. 

3. It certainly makes the designer look far from benign. Look at some of the microorganisms that it purportedly designed - bugs that can and do kill us. Then there are the snakes, malaria - the lists is endless. If these are designed by a designer, then it certainly doesn't relate to a loving god.
No doubt this world has lots of trouble awaiting every person, eventually.
In Romans 8, the apostle Paul explains that when we put our hope in Christ “our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.” In other words, our troubles, including disease, are not pointless if we turn to Christ.  They will also be extremely small compared to the joy of eternity with God where all things are made right.  No more suffering and pain is what the Christian looks forward to.  In the mean time we are to rule over and subdue our planet.  Which means we have a responsibility to take care of our earth and advance ourselves and to work toward making our lives and other people's lives better.

4. In order to design such as is claimed by ID, the designer is going to have to be more complex than the things it designed and, consequently, is also going to need a designer. In fact there is going to have to be a chain of designers because in each step we have to design a new designer.
see my reply #207

5. Souls are simpler than material organisms? How can we know that? Souls are going to have to be pretty complex as they are going to have to collect all the information in our brains and store it is a way that it is still accessible. Without that information, an individual ceases to exist even if there is a soul with his name on it. So a soul has to be non-material but capable of fast and accurate copying of the patterns of neurons in the brain and recreating this pattern in a working form right at the moment of death. That is some design and some tough job. Souls are  much more complicated than one might think.
I don't believe they are.
see my reply #207

6. No one has launched a search for the designer. No matter how good our beliefs in one particular god are, if we have not real evidence that the god exists it might end up not being the real designer. Research needs to be started to try and identify the designer.

So those are some of the implications of ID that are not really mentioned. The fact is that ID cannot link the supposed designer to any particular god without some evidence. Given that we know that things are evolving it is not even clear how it might help to know that a designer was at work.

Patrick, do you have answers to these point?
I suppose the research for the real designer is where religious debates begin.  But I think that the biblical God has a lot to offer those who are willing.  I've benefited greatly from God.  I mean that I recognize that my life has had many ups and downs and that to me God gives me the one answer that I am the most unwilling to accept (even though I do accept).  Which is that He is in charge no matter what.  Even if my life is terribly painful, I accept that He has all authority over me just as a carpenter has authority to burn a chair that He is done with.  Or to tear it apart and turn it into something else. 
No one believes in God without that kind of humility toward his place in life.  I suppose a few may believe, but still shake their fist at Him in contempt.   
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nogodsforme For trying to answer reasonably January 27, 2014, 10:50:05 AM