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Ataraxia



    Posts: 523
  • Darwins +79/-1

...I am a pathetic, sorry excuse for a human being.

I don't believe that.

Try something - rack your brains and make a list of all the things you deem to have been good deeds that you have done, say since the turn of the year. Then make a list of all the things you deem to be bad deeds. Now take these two lists and envisage where your god would put each deed. Do you expect there to be any shifting of deeds between the good and bad categories? If yes, then ask yourself why god would consider something good/bad which you consider the opposite. If no, welcome to SPAG.


Okay, well said. And I thank you for your concern about my health and how I consider myself.

No worries. Being an optimist, it concerns me when I see pessimism, especially when that pessimism is aimed at ones own existence.

Did you try it out, btw? Did you see a difference in you and god?

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What I meant to communicate in that statement was not what came through. I do not consider myself a "waste of space" or anything like that. I have done many "good deeds" but the questions is: Does that equate to, or cancel out all the bad things I have done?

No, it doesn't. However, neither do the bad things cancel out the good things.
This seems to be something the Christian god also fails to realise. He focuses on the bad things, accentuates them and points them out to you to tell you how much of a rubbish human you are, all the while ignoring all the good things you've done.
The only "good" thing this god does take notice of is your admittance that you are bad with the realisation that you are only forgiven of this badness if you accept that god and his manifestations have taken the brunt of the punishment you deserve..... and if you don't do this "good" thing then you will take the punishment..... for.ever. Nice.

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Good deeds don't make us any less guilty, just gives us times when we could have made ourselves more guilty and didn't. They may turn someones eyes to see our good deeds and wave off the bad ones, but a good judge would not let a murderer go just because they helped grama across the street right?

Nope, but a good judge who is evaluating the entirety of your life wouldn't dismiss it, would they? A good judge wouldn't dismiss the murder either would they, and let them off the hook if they accepted that the judge's son was taking the punishment for the murderer?

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So having said all that, we must look at a scale of good and bad. What defines a "good" person, and who's definition matters? To people, it is our own standard that matters. This is why you can go to a country like Canada or United States where theft will result in a fine or jail time, or you can go to Sierra Leone where you will get your hands chopped off.

Yes, to us it is our standards that matter because our standards are all we have got to work with. Societies on one side of the globe have different standards to societies on the other side of the globe, and if we find ourselves in a society whose standards differ from our own we still do our best to conform to them. To anyone of moral worth, the deterrent for theft should be irrelevant to not wanting to thieve (though thieving and its moral judgments, like anything else, are relative to the specific circumstances).

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To God, and in extension Christians, it is God's standard that matters. This would be the Ten Commandments. By that standard, we have all fallen very short.

What about the other 613?

Anyway, the 10 commandments are entrapment. They're goals set up with the specific intention of us never being able to achieve them. They might as well be thrown out and replaced with "being human is bad".

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The next question now is: Does a white lie deserve hell? Well sin (or a wrong deed, however you would like to word it) all matters who it is committed against. If one was to lie to me, well then who cares really right?

You would care? The person who lied to you may care? The other people who are indirectly affected by it care?

But no, a white lie doesn't deserve hell because nothing does, not even your god. ;)

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Is that going to cause them jail time or anything? No. However, you lie to a federal judge: That's Purgery brother. Jail. If you lied to a Persian king hundreds of years ago (or any king really, I just picked Persian out of my head)....well you wouldn't have to worry about what hat to wear, cause you wouldn't have a head to wear it on.

Like thieving, it's relative to the specific circumstances and standards. Also, like thieving, lying generally connotes a negative impact, though there are situations where lying or thieving might achieve something positive.

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So does a white lie really matter? Well if one does not believe in God, then why argue about it cause it shouldn't matter right?

Of course it still matters if it affects you. Why shouldn't it matter just because one doesn't believe in god? This is what we do, this is why we set up laws and systems, because actions of others affect other people. We don't have to believe we are accountable to a god when we are accountable to 7 billion other people.

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If you even have the slightest thought that God might exist, then you realize that a sin against the creator of all things is a big deal. Does a white lie matter, yes of course it does.

Sin is a problem god created for himself, as you say, he is the creator of all things. God has the potential to remove this problem. Jeez, god had the potential to never even give himself the problem. Either that or he needs to put a complaint in to the manufacturer of his celestial Play-do machine.
But then you see, god tries to weasel his way out of that by hypnotising followers into thinking that sin is their fault, yet those of us on the prosecution can see past his attempts of diminished responsibility, or should that be complete irresponsibility.

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When we line up all the questions like: "Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people?" or "Why would God send a good person to hell?" We have to evaluate what "good" means right? By God's standard, the only good person that ever lived was Jesus. Therefore the only hope we would have in the eyes of God would be to accept Jesus as our saviour. By humanities standard? Well then the answer to that question would really change depending on who you asked.

Yes, as I said above, the only "good" we can do in god's eyes is to realise we are bad and accept that he's so loving that he can forgive us of our badness by taking the burden we deserve. That ain't good and it sure ain't loving. It's egotism and morally reprehensible.
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median Some very good stuff here :) January 10, 2014, 01:49:40 AM