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If I say that I've created the world's best apple pie, do you take this to imply that I made an apple pie materialize out of nothing, or do you take it that I arranged and processed existing ingredients into the form of an apple pie?

Yea, verily, as St. Sagan (pbuh) hath spoken[1], "If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the Universe."  And so it came to pass, that Willie the Squirrel-God created the Universe, along with logic, natural regularity, and comedy.  I think he's also responsible for Saturday nights.

What?  It's no nuttier (*rimshot*) than Ham's "model."

Ham's Creationism is fractally wrong.  At the start of the debate, he said that it was all about "authority" (the "authority" of Yahweh on his side vs. the "authority" of man on the other), and that this in turn is the "foundation" for [Ham's preferred concept of] marriage and sexual ethics ("one man and one woman," abortion is murder, etc.).

1) If your ultimate source for claims about Universe is "X is true because the Boss says so!" then you're not merely doing science wrong, you're not doing science, period.  The whole purpose of the scientific method, not to mention all those expensive satellites, particle accelerators, computers, chemists' glassware, etc. is to sweep aside claims to authority, politics, biases and the like as much as possible, and set things up so that Universe can speak for itself.  It doesn't work perfectly, of course...it just works lots better than anything else we've ever tried.

2) The Bible did not descend from Heaven on a ray of light to a soundtrack of angelic choirs.  The books that constitute it were written by men, copied, re-copied, and re-re-copied by men, translated, re-translated, and re-re-translated by men, and selected for "canonization" out of a larger pool of similar texts--by men.  It's men, men, men, all the way down.  Ham's claim of "authority" rests on treating all of those men as if they were infallible Gods.  In science, if you don't like the fact that the Andromeda Galaxy is two million light-years away (or that the speed of light is a constant, etc.), you're welcome to repeat the measurements yourself and show that the accepted results are wrong.  In Bible-worship, you've got nothing at all but the Authority of Men.

3) There's a theological term for treating a human-created artifact as if it possessed the attributes of divinity: Idolatry.  There's another theological term that arguably applies to the practice of treating said divine object as one's personal ventriloquist dummy, and that would be Blasphemy.

4) Ham made it clear in the debate (and the displays of his "facility" do likewise) that the whole purpose of Creationism is to provide a prop for Republican social policies.  If those policies cannot be defended on their own merits, so that they must be propped up by the claim that Adam and Eve rode around on cuddly herbivorous Tyrannosaurs...then Creationism stands as Ham's public confession that those policies are complete and utter rubbish.  Lousy politics.

5) Creationism's "foundation" is the act of treating some verses of Genesis as a literal scientific treatise (seven "days," counting up the years in the genealogies, the Eden story of the second chapter) while treating other verses of the same text in the same context as metaphor or otherwise OK to ignore (the "windows" in the firmament that let the Flood waters pour down when opened, and stop the rain when closed, the Moon as a "lesser light" when it's actually a mirror reflecting the Sun's light, the stars being created "for times and seasons and to give light upon the Earth" when all but a few thousand of them can't even be seen by the naked eye, Yahweh's purpose for creating humanity being "to dress and keep" the Garden, i.e. take care of the environment). 

This is not only bad textual interpretation (or perhaps I should just say bad reading comprehension) it is bad theology, at least if you ask the majority of Christians and Christian institutions (e.g. the Roman Catholic church and several of the major Protestant denominations).  By claiming that Noah's ark and vegetarian Tyrannosaurs represent the capstone in the arch of Christianity (contra the Apostle Paul who said it was the resurrection of Jesus, 1 Corinthians 15:14-19), Ham and his ilk spawn crises of faith that otherwise wouldn't happen every time some precious church kid gets exposed to the real world.  Thanks Mr. Ham!  We New Atheists appreciate your support!  When Pat Robertson, a man known for casting healing spells through television screens and claiming to deflect hurricanes tells you to STFU because, "Let’s be real, let’s not make a joke of ourselves," some really close examination of oneself and one's positions ought to be in order!

Heck, is Creationism even a good money-making scheme anymore?
 1. Mr. Ham: there's a series of videos out there...
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lotanddaughters Unbelievably good. February 08, 2014, 07:45:59 PM