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screwtape

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No. People do not have any spiritual experiences involving Zeus, nor are there any prophets of Zeus.

??Wha...?  What do you mean?  People used to have Zeus experiences all the time!  There used to be an oracle on every islet in the Aegean!  I just know that if you opened your heart to Zeus, he would answer.  If he does not, then you have done it wrongly.  Just try it again, only more sincerely.

And let's not forget his human children - Perseus and Hercules, to name just two.  Zeus had dozens of human children.  yhwh - just one.  Not very fecund. 

You have not proven Zeus does not exist.  You have only alleged it.  Just because Zeus (et al) have fallen out of popularity doe not mean he does not exist. 

Besides, all those alleged yhwh experiences are without evidence.  How do you know it was yhwh?  They can be explained by rather mundane psychology.  Every religious experience has been recreated in a lab.[1] Or, if you want to go another route, people of other religions also have similar experiences. 

Yhwh is roughly translated as "he who creates" or "that which creates" The universe is here. It was wither created by God or it was not. (Being an agnostic theist I do accept both possibilities)

Oh, come on.  He's named "he who creates" so that makes him more credible?  Really?  If his name was Jealous, would that make any difference?  What if the god of the OT was really two different gods?  Suppose one was called "yhwh" and the other was "elohim"?  Would that impact your opinion?


I fully accept that as a possibility. I personally don't believe so but that is my choice to make.

How much do you fully accept that possibility?  I think when it comes to reality, there are no choices.  So for me, when reality is confronting one of my beliefs, even one I love, I have to accept reality.  Because reality is all that exists for me to deal with.  Are you willing to change your mind, or are you going to waste precious time and brain power proving your beloved belief?

Being loving, forgiving and non-judgmental is universally moral.   Treating others with the same respect that you would like to be treated with is universally moral, even if Confucius taught it previously.

Actually, the Golden RuleWiki predates Confucius by 1200 - 1500 years.  It has been found in Middle Kingdom Egyptian writing that date as far back as 2000 bce and was all over the middle and near east from then on. 

So, jesus H was stating the obvious.  Old news.  A 1700 year old cliche.  BFD.  That sets a pretty low bar for "Best Teacher Evar".  Not only that, but that is not a complete ethical system.

If Jesus was telling the truth,

That is a giant if, and one that I have no reason to accept.

Teaching people to forgive others, not to seek revenge and to be merciful are not useful practices?

No.  Those are lofty platitudes. And I'm not even convinced jesus H said any of that.

And which jesus H are we talking about?  There are several.  How about the one who tells people to abandon their families to follow him?  How about the one who says if someone is beating the shit out of you, you should let them punch you on the other side of your face too and not fight back?

You do not have a consistent, coherent jesus H, because the gospels represent different sects with different ideas about who jesus H was and what his message was.  Thus, you do not have a consistent, coherent, complete ethic either.  All that had to be woven together after the fact by Paul and the early church.

So I should just go and burn the houses down of the people who caused me harm in my life?

It worked for the vikings.

So if someone kills one of my loved ones I should kill them or make them suffer? IF someone were to rape my nieces I should torture the rapists for doing do? 

Is that not what we as a society collectively do?  Do you forgive those people?  I hardly think so. Nor do I think forgiving them is a virtue. 


No.  There are ways to prove if "Nessy" is real or not.  Nobody wants to waste the money and resources doing so.  Too much risk of it being a falsehood.

This is what I've been trying to get at.  You say there are ways to prove nonexistence.  Let's have it.  Set aside the practical matters, like cost.  How exactly would you go about proving Nessy's nonexistence? 

Before you do that, you might try using the search function.  See what comes up for Screwtape's Dog.
 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
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neopagan mincemeat... nice point by point refutation June 19, 2013, 12:01:49 PM