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screwtape

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People called GW Bush a liar

He was.

and attributed amazing feats of fantastical diabolical skulduggery to him

I do not know anyone who gave Jr any credit for complicated evil plans.  He was aided and abetted - or just manipulated - by the most evil being to ever inhabit North America.  Dick Cheney.

and then called him an idiot.

He is.

They couldn't make up their minds.

I'd like to know who this mysterious "they" is.  Them? 

Meh.  It doesn't matter really, because GWB Jr is not the topic.  I was not talking in abstractions or ambiguities.  I was talking very specifically about you and that dingus Barton.

The guy was a victim ... alternatively allow it to finish its mission. 

blah blah blah.  Not the point.

Oh, sorry, the subject was that I'm likely just a garden variety liar that just can't help myself and so my word can't be trusted. 

No, Wayne.  That was not my point.  Try again.  This time, read what I wrote.

Pretty scary huh.

What is scary is that you are walking the streets, a free man, with liberties and the privilege of voting.  You should be in a straight jacket somewhere, getting the proper medical care you need.

What is a SPAG

I thought you would never ask.  Self Projection As God.  It means every person's idea of god is just a projection of his or her own personality.  It is a funny thing.  No one who believes in god disagrees with god.  The god loves the things they love, hates the things they hate, punishes the sins they loathe and forgives the sins they make.  Funny coincidence, that. 

Yet somehow, all those god believers disagree with each other.  How is that possible?  Everyone seems to intimately know what god wants, yet no one agrees on what that is?  Turns out, how you interpret the bible is a Rorschach test - it says more about you than it does the bible.

I'd link to the guy who coined the term, but right now the old forum is inaccessible.

His promises might not seem fulfilled in the material world, I'm just going to see how it goes in eternity.  I'm resigned that his fulfillment means is up to him.

No, Wayne.  The moral of Job is clear.  Xians love to talk about the old covenant.  Do you know what a covenant is?  It is a pact, like a contract.  And in the old covenant, yhwh promised wealth, protection and prosperity in exchange for the jews following his laws.  Quid pro quo.  It was all about what happened in the material world.  For the jews, there was no "eternity" or "hereafter".  You never hear about them entering the kingdom of heaven.  When they died, they died.  They went to the underworld - Sheol.  The rewards of worshiping yhwh were in the here and now.  How does Job begin?
Quote
In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.

bold mine.  He was blameless and upright.  By the old covenant, he kept up his end of the bargain.  yhwh reneged.  And amazingly, yhwh still demanded through bullying, intimidation and threat of violence that Job continue to hold to the laws and worship even though the covenant was broken by yhwh. 

So if I were you, I wouldn't count on yhwh to do squat for you.

I'm being a bit flippant I know but I did quote a scripture that says exactly that,

I know that Wayne.  You are not the first bible believer with whom I have spoken and had that verse quoted at me.  And that makes my point even more valid.  We are talking about what the bible says, not some loopy interpretation of yours.  When I point out I have been abandoned by god, your iron age reference agrees.  There is no arguing with me on this one, Wayne. My point is supported by the bible.

I wonder where this supposedly all good, just and merciful god is hiding, because he is not to be found in the bible.

My report stands as stated.

My point had nothing to do with your report.  My point had to do with the horribly unjust god you worship. Your god is like a teacher who only teaches some of the class and then murders the rest for not passing the test.

For good or for bad, I hope you can forgive me that I cannot, and likely shall never have the option of concluding that He doesn't exist, no matter what should happen to me. 

Wayne, if I believed in yhwh, I would reject it completely on moral grounds.  The way yhwh behaved in the OT was abominable.  If I reversed the words "God" and "Satan" in the bible, and read it to someone who'd never read it before, they would think Satan (yhwh, actually) was completely evil.  I also cannot accept the NT because it says my salvation comes at the expense of someone else.  I reject that as morally reprehensible.  Other people cannot pay for my crimes.  There is no justice in that.

So maybe what I am trying to show you is not that you should stop believing that yhwh exists, but that the moral thing to do would be to reject this monster.  How about you just start there and we'll get to showing his nonexistence later?

Maybe you'd like to read about that one here.  http://tinyurl.com/PaleMustang

Thanks, but no.  I do not find your tales convincing.

My observed reality confirms many bible beliefs, even in a scary way.

No, Wayne.  You completely missed the point. 


I have only the obligation to proclaim what the supernatural god of the bible has told me,

Putting the cart before the horse.

I'll let scripture answer that one for me.

That answers nothing.  My point stands.

Would you like to bow in prayer now?

No.  I would like to have you committed to a psychiatric hospital.  You are dangerous.
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