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okay, well i feel as though i can only post one last time, so this will be a good one because i am going to prove to you that the bible is a viable source therefore proving that all that was written (at least in the historical sense) is true. A lot of you say that you want proof that the bible's prophecies are viable outside of the bible, well i would like to first point out a prophecy written so long ago (we all know that the bible wasn't recently written) and it is being fulfilled today. What is happening in Israel today? Jews from every country are returning to their home land. Does prophecy talk about this? Jeremiah 23:3 states "And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries wither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase" Isaiah 43:5 & 6 state" Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west; and I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from afar, and my daughters from the ends of the earth";There is no doubt about it. The Jews are returning to their homeland from every corner of the earth. Prophecy is being fulfilled right before our eyes!

Right...the Jews have been migrating to the said area since 70 CE illegally and legally. This "prophecy" is too general, too broad. It can be said for any one group of people.

Want further proof? In Ezekiel chapter 36, God addresses the Israelites "24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land." The Jews have the best army in the world today, the smartest scientists, and live in a little strip of land that the whole world disputes because the nations of this world are under Satan's control.

You are unbelievably stupid. Israel does not have the best army nor the smartest scientists. Though they are carrying out their own little systematic dismantling of a people who have been living on that land causing other Arab nations to get pissed off which in turn causes the international community to get involved. Add in more than 1000 years of violence and cesspool-quality politics and you get what you have today to put it in very simple terms.

And Satan controlling entire governments? LOL. What's next? The Rice Krispies Elves controlling legions of dolphins?

The nations of the world will bring about their own destruction because God said" And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it." Ever since Hitler's slaughter of the Jews, we gave them Jerusalem back for a safe haven for them. There are so many who want Jerusalem, but the nations protect it. I don't see how you can state this any other way besides the bible predicted future events.

More nonsense. It's also ironic how that "safe haven" also happens to be a hot spot for terrorists and street violence.

Now to all of you who still say the bible cannot be trusted, i would like to ask you if you have ever trusted in an autobiography written about someone who lived many years before us, written about someone you have never personally met or seen in pictures. Autobiographies obviously have some bias because they are written by individuals about themselves. They certainly could misinterpret some of their experiences, but how many readers would toss out an autobiography as not a trustworthy book about the author? So, why toss out portions of scripture that are autobiographical?

First, if only autobiographies exist, then we can see which parts of the autobiographies are true such as their achievements. Say, if Person A claimed he/she built the pyramids of Giza alone, we would know from the evidence and data gathered that more than one person was obviously involved. The Bible is completely different from an autobiography in that you cannot prove an invisible sky god who's omniscient and omnipotent came down and possessed a sack of flesh in one particular location for a particular length of time to spread the word of salvation but didn't do so in other parts of the world.

The Bible is nonsense complete with disgusting content that encompasses divinely justified genocides, infanticides, animal & human sacrifices, misogyny, homophobia and slavery.

Many biographies are written by people who loved the person they are writing about, but we do not question their validity. Yes, we may see some prejudices or favoritism in a biography, but we can overall trust most biographies, because if they were inaccurate there would be an uproar from others. So, why toss out portions of scripture that are biographical? Unless we have proof they are inaccurate, we need to give them the same trust we would a modern day biography.

We DO have proof that almost all the events in the Bible are complete and utter bullshit. The Tower of Babel? A global deluge? Crossing of the Red Sea? Resurrection of a carpenter? Adam and Eve? The list goes on.

i know that you want archaeological proof that the bible can be trusted and there are finds in fact that proves that the people and the places did in fact exist in the bible and weren't made up. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a008.html This is a small article talking about some archaeological finds proving some of the events in the bible true.

Just because you put in a semblance of historical setting into a story doesn't make it historically accurate. It'd be like saying Leo Tolstoy's War & Peace is 100% history or Assassins Creed being more accurate than Wikipedia and the Britannica Encyclopedia combined.

don't let the link fool you,

It's Christian. That's enough for me to not even bother clicking the link. It's probably more of the apologist crap that's spewed out by Bible-defending fanatics on why the Bible is 100% accurate and the word of God.

this article is based on real archaeological finds. There are other archaeological finds that talk about Jesus being a real man. I know that you know that these have been found to be true because Jesus is talked about in the Encyclopedia Britannica. http://www.creatingfutures.net/birth.html This is a page that shows some things written out of the bible that refer to the Jesus mentioned in the bible proving that He existed. but what is interesting is that if Jesus was real (shown by other documents other than the bible) and He did in fact say He was the Son of God, why wouldn't He have been written out of the Bible if He were wrong?

Zeus is in the Encyclopedia Britannica. Is he real? What about Odin? Thor? Vishnu? Tengri? The countless animal spirits of shamanism? And your reasoning of "if Jesus was real and he did in fact say he was the son of god, why wouldn't he have been written out of the Bible..?" is incredibly flawed.

That'd be like taking Harry Potter out of the Harry Potter books. Why would you take out the most important protagonist of the story that you created and edited just for the sole purpose of tricking people that Jesus was more godly than manly?

The Jews hated Him when they crucified Him.

Romans crucified him, the Jews just didn't like him supposedly.

They had witnessed His miracles, but believed Him to be a heretic, which makes it interesting that the entire New Testament is written basically about Him and His works. There are many witnesses and they wrote their stories explaining what they saw.

NONE of the Gospel authors ever knew Jesus. Not a single one. These were all written LONG after the alleged existence of Jesus. And then processed for editing for the new religion on the rise in the Roman Empire: Christianity. They also contradict each other on various things such as Joseph's father, how Jesus was treated by family, how Judas died and so forth.

No witnesses. Nothing. All bullshit.

Some say that it can't be trusted because of the religious content in the bible, but if the bible can be shown to be true through archaeological findings and personal notes written by other people saying that those things existed,


then why can't we trust it? Historians only discredit biographies and autobiographies when they are proven false by others, but the people and the things in the bible are mentioned in more than just the Bible. so therefore it can't be discredited as at least a historical artifact.

More shit. Are you ever going to address the people in this thread directly? This is just fucking preaching and arguing from what you hold to be true in your mind.

But we must also ultimately ask the question, since Jesus existed. Is He God, or was he a liar, or was He a lunatic?

Doesn't matter, didn't exist as a "Messiah".

http://www.creatingfutures.net/jesus.html this page really explains this very well with some quotes by people about how, with all of the witnessing evidence that archaeologists have found written about Jesus, Jesus couldn't have been a liar or a lunatic. I will let you decide for yourself on that, but i would like to talk about 2 things before i go.


1: the reason why i will not be posting on this site anymore is because i don't feel as though you are looking for any real answers, but you are instead just looking to say other's are wrong and that atheism is right.

Whoo~, running away. Simple, direct, and no thinking involved. Good for you.

I'm not saying this by thought, but by how much i have seen of that on this site. Like obviously there are the christians that aren't very christian at all, but i don't think those people should count because they lack wisdom,

So what? You're the only True Christian and possess all of the wisdom given to you directly by the creator of the universe? Horseshit has been promoted to Gooseshit.

but with the overwhelming evidence that i have found on the internet explaining so many of your questions in such logical ways,

You have one hell of a twisted definition of "logical" and you did NOT answer any questions. At all.

i just don't understand how you could even ask them still. i will provide some links to sites that i found to be very good places to find answers to these questions. but another reason why i'm leaving is because i don't feel as though i could be able to present this stuff in the best way because it is on a forum where so many people just post really stupid crap sometimes (some of the "christians" do too).

You are fucking pathetic. Including "Christians" so you don't seem that "anti-nonbeliever". Good job.

Like i know that there are those who have a lot of education too and they aren't obnoxious like some, but this isn't the kind of place to seek answers. If you are in a community full of people who will shoot down anything, then how are you going to be able to even consider the things said by christians?

The people here don't shoot down everything. They only shoot down stupid shit like this.

i am sure a lot of you aren't like that and do consider them, but if you truely consider them, then i think that you'd find the answer in God

Gooseshit promoted to Bullocks.

I have given myself an opportunity to defend and to be honest i feel as though i did a good job, but i just can't do quite the same of a good job as i could in person.

If we met in person, you'd be very dissappointed. The results would be the same. You'd probably get a "call" from your mother or whatever and say you have to go and give me some pamphlet on why a God that is willing to create sinful human beings so they can go to hell to suffer for all eternity loves me. Yeah fuck you too mate.

i hope you understand that i'm not giving up on any of you. on the contrary. I have been praying for all of you every night ( i know this means probably nothing to you, but honestly my prayers come from every compasionate part of my heart, and you all mean so much to me.)

Thank you.

I just don't think that i am called to keep presenting to you on a forum, but i will keep learning from here and seeing things, and maybe making a post every month or 2. but i just think that personal relationships are the best way to go about this. For all of you who understand christianity in any sort of way, you know that what i'm saying is something that christians believe in. because i have no religion, i have a relationship with God. and i believe that relationships are the best of saying what needs to be said.

... Okay.

Now the 2nd thing is that i am extremely disappointed that even though the bible has been taken as historical fact, you still say it's not true.

That's because it ISN'T true.

you work on a basis of evidence. but you see that's not how the world works all of the time.

The world works like this all the time.

You have no evidence of how the big bang even occured,

Amazing. Simply baffling. For the sake of argument, let's throw out the Big Bang Theory, the laws of physics and hell, even the Theory of Evolution. How would this make the existence of your silly god even remotely plausible?

yet you have faith that the universe is in fact all around us. We have no evidence disproving the bible as any sort of historical fact, so we should have faith that it is true, much like many other things written from long ago. why is the bible any different? The world is built on faith. it has been from the start. We have been advancing in science a lot, but as we go further, there are still questions that we need faith to believe they are true and that this universe isn't fake.

Hey, uh, guess how many contributions your religion, even less the existence of your god, has made towards the advancement of science and the answering of very complex questions?

I will give you a hint:

I do want to talk about a man talked about in the bible. Thomas, one of Jesus' disciples. He said that He would not believe that Jesus had come back from the dead until he had put his fingers through the holes in His hands and felt the hole in His side from when He was stabbed on the cross. But when Jesus came in, He let him do those things so he could believe. now these fundamental words that, in light of all that has been said, Jesus said are "you believe because you have seen, but blessed are those who believe and have not seen." He is talking directly to all of you. He isn't saying that He will rebuke you, but that your beliefs shouldn't be based on complete evidence, but faith. Atheism is in fact a faith. You trust in your evidence, and whatever might prove what you believe, but in fact you are missing so much evidence, so where is your faith?

Fuck your faith. Faith did not help millions of starving children live. Faith did not help the dead boy I held. Faith did not eradicate polio. Faith did not have everyone come together in unison for the Occupy protests. Faith did not help end any war. It is amusing how Jesus appeared back then so many times that the Bible itself says "over 500 people", but where is he now? In the figment of your imagination. That's where.

And atheism does not require faith. It is essentially the lack of faith.

I will not preach to you because it is against the rules, but i hope you see all that i have said as maybe thought provoking.

You just preached. And it was not thought provoking. It's the same shit we read every day.

i do pray that you will at least go over this with a completely open mind. Go through the sites i will provide at the bottom and try to find the questions that you have asked your whole life in them. If you don't find it, then talk to someone in person about it. a good christian person. someone that you know.

Bullocks upgraded to ShitForBrains.

because asking about it on a forum will only give you advice from people you don't even know or trust. so what is the good in that?

Stupid on so many levels.

I do love you all and i really don't want you thinking that i'm bailing,

Nice covering your ass. But thank you. I also hate you. Just for the giggles.

because i have given evidence of the bible's validity and Jesus' validity, which is what you've asked for. and please don't respond to this in a quick manor. honestly if you go to your bed or a quiet place and try to pray, even just once, with all of your heart, Just asking God to help you see what He has been trying to show you your entire life (He will answer this prayer), and then answer my post, i will gladly respond to you.

You fail to realize almost EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US were Christian for a long time. Oh but wait, maybe we didn't have wisdom like you do?

but don't go and do this and expect an instant response, because God will work in His own ways at His own time, but He will answer it. I just want you to come to my side for a bit because i have spent so long on your's,

Child, you did not even spend a fraction of our wasted time as former Christians on this forum.

and i think that it's rather cowardly not to ever give God a chance. Like how bad can eternal life in heaven with a loving God be?

Considering it's the same God that just doesn't give a shit about the world and looooves animal sacrifices (humans occasionally), I'd rather spend time in hell, chillaxing with your evil Satan.

Also: It's not that we don't like the idea of eternal life meeting your deceased relatives, eating nice gourmet, playing all freaking day for an eternity and being happy. It's that we are repulsed at the idea that the very concept of hell and such a God even exist.

Also it's better that we focus more on our present life since it's our ONLY life (do you remember anything before you were born? That's what most likely awaits you.) and concentrate on making such a paradise for everybody HERE and not AFTER we're dead.

I do not want you, if you know you will, to go into a prayer constantly thinking that He will not answer it or any doubt in your mind. Seriously just have some sense of faith that there must be a god who loves you and knows you more than you do yourself and individually wants a relationship with you. i mean i know you can't pretend to believe, but if you call out to God, He will hear you. He will. I have no doubt in my mind that He will hear all of you and answer you. just don't expect a verbal response. but give that a try after going through these sites and the answers they provide to certain questions. and i will gladly keep in touch with you in any way i can whether that be by email or this site. i must go to bed now though. I will talk to you all later at some point in time hopefully.

Good night artard.
Changed Change Reason Date
jtk73 Excellent. You utterly demolished him. November 03, 2011, 11:32:13 AM