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He gave everything for you.. even His Son tasted our death. Providence, common grace, be thankful. :)


I trust that we can all agree that that our both our planet and the universe are complex places. If you look out in the night sky without the aid of a telescope, you can see planets and stars. Some of the planets are relatively small, others are huge. Some of the stars are yellow, some are red, some are blue. Some are small, some are humongous. You can see our moon, and we know that some of the other planets have moons as well. In some cases, large numbers of moons. We've found 67 so far around Jupiter, 52 around Saturn.

And with a sufficiently powerful telescope, we can see not only our galaxy, but far, far away galaxies. And see that the universe is an incredibly huge and complex place.

On earth, we have wonder after wonder. We live amongst an amazing assortment of plants, animals, bacteria and viruses. Biologists who study such things find astonishing connections between the life forms. We have moths that eat only hair and fur, and without them the planet would be several feet deep in fuzzies because neither of those two things decompose. We have a wide variety of plants that can only be fertilized by very specific species of insects or birds. We have ecosystem complexities in our great coral reefs that are fragile, and that are sadly falling apart because the planet has warmed but a few degrees.

Everywhere you look you see complexity. And if your god had a hand in it, it means that he took great care to create the conditions and situations I have described. It would not be a casual act to create the naked mole rat, an animal that can only live in its underground tunnels, replete with high methane levels from passing gas and high carbon dioxide levels because of their lack of air circulation. But they thrive. And if your god was involved, he paid attention to that detail, as well as every other detail on this planet and in the universe.

And he only managed to come up with two options for humans after death. He was capable of making the rings around Saturn, but didn't come up with any other choices for us besides heaven and hell. He figured out how to deal with excessive hair but he can't allow for good people who don't accept his kid, he can't allow for people who were good but in a moment of frustration or fear acted out of character. He can't allow for people like me who need more proof than people like you. He can't allow for differences in intelligence, temperament, social conditions, political realities, fear, or misinformation.

He couldn't design a list of criteria which would differentiate between Hitler and my non-born again grandmother. When a person otherwise fails to pass his "get on your knees" test, it is all over. There is nothing complex about it.  He took the time to make sure that 30% of humans had harmless little Demonex folliculorum mites living in the follicles of their eyelashes, but he couldn't take the time to either make his message clear to all (rather than just those susceptible to it) or offer up a variety of afterlife scenarios, based on one's overall behavior. It is either the streets of gold or the pits of fire.

And that is one of the reasons that I know that religion is a human invention. Infinite beings would, by definition, be a bit more understanding of us puny humans, because as being who enjoyed complexity, they would know that our weaknesses (when compared to their strengths) were such that we were prone to misunderstanding obscure instruction sets. Humans, on the other hands, who for whatever reason want to control others, are prone to indeed go with the extremes, the black and white choices that are clearly human scenarios. Come with us or suffer for an eternity! What could be more human than that?

What you don't seem to take into account is that when people evolved to be smart enough to realize that they didn't know everything, they started making stuff up. They started finding links that weren't there, because humans evolved to see patterns. And the imagined started becoming the real because it probably made existence a bit easier. And what probably started off as an explanation as to why the cave gods let Junior be eaten by a saber toothed tiger eventually became your god sending down his kid to help define evil and how to combat it.

No, JC didn't taste death. Storytellers made it sound like he did, but there was no JC, just like there is no god. Humans, intervening in life by trying to redefine it as something it is not, have distorted human existence far more than necessary. Especially in 2013. And people such as yourself, prone to accepting the story (which was written specifically for those who are, you know, prone to accepting the story), swallow it lock, stock and barrel, again for very human reasons. And some of you show up on our site and tell us how wrong we are, because you honestly believe that we are. And if we can't communicate the futility of your belief system adequately, you may be stuck with it the rest of your life.

The subject of this thread, whether god is moral if he lets bad things happen, is of interest only to you. We atheists understand that there is no god, so the question is moot. But theists, who insist that there is, need to play games with our heads and their own to keep the otherwise precarious definition of their god intact. And we atheists tend to ask things like "Why would your god do this or that?" in an effort to get you to think about it.

But I think you're old enough for the truth. The people who told you that there is a god were wrong. And your world is distorted because of it.

It is fixable. Stop seeing the light. It isn't there.
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Astreja Simplistic religious ideas do -not- do this universe justice. December 22, 2013, 11:20:04 PM